Wicker Dick

Transcript

Copy Transcript Copied

Casey 0:01

Okay, everybody. Well, welcome back to another episode. We're calling this our, our what? Our big debut? Our re-debut?

Kari 0:08

Our re-debut. Our re-debut. We are back, baby.

Casey 0:11

Is that what that is?

Kari 0:11

Yeah, we're back. We're back. We- We had to take a little hiatus, but if you saw... or saw, listened to our last episode- Our teaser you, you're filled in. Yeah.

Casey 0:19

Yeah. So if, yeah, if you caught our last episode, it was a short little half-hour episode, which we are calling a teaser episode. We are considering this kind of our official, uh, back in the spotlight.

Kari 0:30

Back into the swing of things.

Casey 0:32

Yeah.

Kari 0:32

This is our favorite thing to do. We're, we're back, baby. It is. We're- It just took a little bit. We had a lot going on. We, we lost our podcast room. We didn't really lose our fire, but we lost everything that allowed us to do what we wanted to do.

Casey 0:46

Yeah.

Kari 0:47

And again, if you saw our last episode or heard our last episode, you heard us say we went a little too far into it. Yeah, we- We started going a little too heavy, and, and sometimes when you go too in-depth with something, you lose the passion behind it.

Casey 1:00

Yeah. So here we are.

Kari 1:02

Yeah.

Casey 1:02

So without further ado- Here we go this is Naughty by Nature. We are your hosts. I'm Dr. Casey Sanders.

Kari 1:08

And I'm Carrie Sanders.

Casey 1:09

Let's get right into it. The big topic that we wanna start discussing today is what, Carrie?

Kari 1:14

Is it my ass tattoo?

Casey 1:16

Oh. Yeah, now it is. It wasn't.

Kari 1:19

So we had this- It is

Casey 1:19

now

Kari 1:20

we had this amazing idea last week to record an episode before my ass tattoo- and then after my ass tattoo. Did-

Casey 1:29

And we did record the first half of the

Kari 1:31

episode But did we record the second half?

Casey 1:33

We did not. We did not. So we're gonna consider that, like, eventually way down the line we'll release the lost episodes or some shit.

Kari 1:38

That's a great idea, actually. I, I love that idea.

Casey 1:42

And you'll get to hear the audio from your pre-tattoo session.

Kari 1:45

Guys, that ass tattoo was worse than childbirth. Was way worse. You know what didn't happen during childbirth? Six hours of pain. You know what happened during a six-hour ass tattoo? Six hours of pain.

Casey 1:59

Did your vagina rip during your tattoo?

Kari 2:01

I would rather it had. Oh. This ass tattoo was the worst experience I've ever had in my entire life.

Casey 2:09

I- it's your experience, not mine, so you speak on it as you will.

Kari 2:12

Bro.

Casey 2:14

Did you just bro me?

Kari 2:16

Bro. That was excruciating. From the first line she drew, I knew I was fucked.

Casey 2:25

Yeah. You, I

Kari 2:26

mean- From the first line

Casey 2:27

both cheeks, what it three hours a cheek?

Kari 2:28

It was three hours per cheek. Okay. And, like, I got big cheeks. Her ability to tat-

Casey 2:34

Not denying that.

Kari 2:35

Her ability to tattoo that much of a surface area in a short period of time was, like, all applause to her. Do

Casey 2:43

you think she saw your ass and was like, "Fuck"?

Kari 2:45

Yeah, because when she first drew up the design-

Casey 2:48

It w-

Kari 2:49

I go, "How many of those designs are going on my ass? Because that won't fit."

Casey 2:53

Ad- admittedly, like, we got the, like, kind of the picture with the design-

Kari 2:56

Yeah

Casey 2:57

placed over it, and we were both going, "This is a very small build for what's being done here today."

Kari 3:02

That it will not fit. And then she, she, like, printed out a design, and I was like, "Yeah, that's not gonna fit." And then she printed out a bigger design, and I remember taking a picture of it and sending it to my friends and being like, "Guys, look how massive this is. There's no way this is gonna fit." And then you and I go to the bathroom, and you're like, "Oh, no, this fits perfectly." Exactly. And I was like, "Holy shit. All right." But yes, guys, the, the worst pain of my freaking life. Huge shout-out to the artist. She did an absolute amazing job. But we did pre-record an episode, and we had every, like, intentions of recording something after. And-

Casey 3:39

You weren't recording shit after that

Kari 3:42

I, like, I think I went home and, like, cried. You cried- I was in so much

Casey 3:45

pain you cried the entire tattoo.

Kari 3:47

No. No. You- I cried in the last, like, hour I thought- That was

Casey 3:52

the worst pain I've ever been in. Yeah. It was one of those ones where, I mean, we've both been tattooed since we were 18 years old.

Kari 3:56

Yeah.

Casey 3:57

Plenty of tattoos over many, many years.

Kari 3:59

And areas.

Casey 4:00

And this- Plenty of areas this is, this is the worst I've seen you react.

Kari 4:06

To a tattoo.

Casey 4:06

And it has nothing to do with artist skill or anything like that. No. It had everything to do with just it was in a shitty spot.

Kari 4:13

Literally.

Casey 4:18

You proud of yourself? Are you happy with yourself? I

Kari 4:20

am. But anyways, guys, yeah, so I do think one day we need to release that little snippet of a pre-episode, which is actually gonna bring us into a lot of what we are gonna talk about today.

Casey 4:30

Yeah.

Kari 4:30

Because we really didn't get to finish that episode, so we're gonna, like, dial back, we're gonna re-discuss, um, what it was that was in that show that we just weren't able to release.

Casey 4:39

Yeah, the first thing we talked about in that was Wicker Dick.

Kari 4:42

Wicker Dick was the first- That

Casey 4:42

was what we were gonna title the whole episode, was Wicker Dick.

Kari 4:45

I still think it can be Wicker Dick. This is a great topic of discussion, truly.

Casey 4:50

This is, this is, I mean, you're talking heavy in pop culture. Everyone's talking about it, especially all the book girlies are really talking about the new movie coming out in the next month or so, Wicker.

Kari 5:01

Yeah.

Casey 5:01

This- Right? So what do you know about Wicker, Carrie?

Kari 5:03

Um, I know it is a Skarsgård. It

Casey 5:05

is. It is.

Kari 5:06

It is a Skarsgård.

Casey 5:07

It is. One of the stars is Alex- Alexander Skarsgård. He

Kari 5:10

is the first Skarsgård that I knew of. Yeah. From True Blood.

Casey 5:14

From True... Eric Northman.

Kari 5:15

Oh my God. I had- The owner- I saw this man. I... First of all, that show does not portray that man as tall as he really is.

Casey 5:22

The owner and operator of Fangtasia-

Kari 5:25

Oh

Casey 5:25

my God, yeah. You're right in True Blood. Oh, I was a huge True Blood fan. I

Kari 5:27

know. You sh- you were the one that turned me on to True Blood.

Casey 5:30

I loved that show. That's what... Lafayette is my favorite character of, like, all time. I

Kari 5:34

love Lafayette. I love Lafayette. Anyways, let's not get sidetracked.

Casey 5:39

No, we're not gonna get sidetracked.

Kari 5:39

I did not realize, one, again, how tall that man was in real life. They did not depict him- Really? as tall as he is on the- He's

Casey 5:45

on a throne.

Kari 5:46

Yeah, he's sitting. Sitting. Secondly-

Casey 5:51

I mean, I guess him next to, like, Anna Paquin was not-

Kari 5:53

Right? gonna say a lot. But... Yeah, she's teensy. But anyways that was my first, like, "Oh my God, who is this person?" But when the first what do you call it? Like, the movie picture or the, that, that you see- Trailer? The... No, not the, not the video of it, but, like, the poster.

Casey 6:07

Okay.

Kari 6:08

And it's him.

Casey 6:09

Yeah.

Kari 6:09

And I was like, "I don't even know what the fuck this is, and I immediately wanna see it."

Casey 6:13

For Wicker?

Kari 6:14

Yeah, for Wicker. Okay.

Casey 6:15

Whenever

Kari 6:15

it shows, like- I'm sorry. I should've been more specific. Yes

Casey 6:17

whenever it shows his face,

Kari 6:18

like- It just shows him

Casey 6:19

and

Kari 6:19

the basket- That, yeah and

Casey 6:19

the wick and all that?

Kari 6:21

Wicker basket. Yeah. Skarsgård basket. I immediately was like, "I don't know what this is. I wanna see it."

Casey 6:27

And he's not even, like, the main star of the movie.

Kari 6:29

Well, no, and the more that I got to know about it, I actually really like that honestly. I really like that it's more about this woman. Um, and-

Casey 6:37

Olivia Colman.

Kari 6:38

I'm sorry?

Casey 6:38

Olivia Colman, the actress.

Kari 6:39

That actress, by the way, the first time I saw her was in, um, Doctor Who.

Casey 6:45

That was the first time you saw her?

Kari 6:47

That was the first time I saw her- Okay with Matt Smith- Yeah and it was the episode where they, like, had the fangs, and they turn into these, like, fish frog things.

Casey 6:53

Fish frog. Okay.

Kari 6:57

I'm just telling you.

Casey 6:58

You know we both are thinking of South Park right now. We are. Go ahead.

Kari 7:00

But I love this actress. Yeah. So for the fact that it's her, and then a Skarsgård- Yeah I, I'm s- I'm set.

Casey 7:08

See, my first exposure to Olivia Colman was in Extras with Ricky Gervais, which was an early to-

Kari 7:13

Extras.

Casey 7:14

If you, if you've never seen it, like we'll- No I'll show it to you. I think it's on HBO actually still. Um, it was literally... It's a, it's a British show about- Extras um, extras in film-

Kari 7:24

Hmm

Casey 7:24

who are trying to make it-

Kari 7:25

Make it big

Casey 7:26

bigger. Yeah. So it's like their shenanigans on set- Hmm as being extras, and so they'll bring in all these big name stars.

Kari 7:32

Are they real skits or like fake-

Casey 7:34

No, th- this is a full series. This is a- Oh,

Kari 7:36

it's a full series. Yeah. Okay.

Casey 7:37

Okay. Yeah. And it was a great show, but that was my first exposure to her-

Kari 7:40

Got it

Casey 7:41

was alongside Ricky Gervais, uh, in- Oh in Extras.

Kari 7:44

Okay, interesting.

Casey 7:45

So I've been... I've l- I've loved her for a long time, so seeing her and Alexander Skarsgård together, and especially in this like romance fantasy.

Kari 7:54

So you actually dove in a little bit to the author. Yeah. Let's talk about that.

Casey 7:58

I, I, I very baseline, so the,

Kari 8:01

if I- Well, yeah, but- I don't know shit- there's not a whole lot out there I

Casey 8:03

don't know shit about this author. I know her name.

Kari 8:05

I'm- I meant the behind the story. You're right. I'm sorry.

Casey 8:07

So yeah. All right. So originally this was a book called Wicker Husband, like The Wicker Husband, 14 page short story, next to nothing, written by Ursula Willis-Jones. So she writes that back in 2011. It ends up winning a, uh... It was, so it was published in 2011 as part of the National Short Story Prize anthology. And now- uh, and then it was actually adapted as a stage musical in the UK, and now it's becoming a film. So it's been a couple of, of iterations as- Yeah as it's grown in popularity. But she wrote this 14 page short story. Uh, she had her nominations and all that kind of stuff. Once it became so popular and became that they were gonna turn it into a movie- Yeah she did one of the smartest things that you could do. Because this was, like, self-published. This wasn't through a publisher. This wasn't through a big, uh, organization or anything. So once it came through this, she did the smart move and she pulled all of her stories from the internet. All source code was, like, absolutely removed. So if you're gonna find it now, you have to go through, like, a pirating source or something like that to get it. Reddit.

Kari 9:12

Some deep dive through Reddit or something.

Casey 9:14

I'm sure that there's plenty of places- Yeah that if you, you look hard enough, you can find it. But for the most part, she has taken it all, all of this, because sh- now she's going through and doing it through an actual publisher.

Kari 9:25

Yeah.

Casey 9:25

So she can republish the short story.

Kari 9:27

Do you think she's gonna, like, lengthen it since it was a short story?

Casey 9:30

I have not heard a thing. Yeah. I haven't looked hard enough into it. I'm curious about that. But I'd be curious to find out.

Kari 9:34

Yeah.

Casey 9:34

But we're also, I mean, the- think the biggest curiosity about this entire thing, that I've seen online at least, is hashtag wicker dick.

Kari 9:41

I was about to say, is his dick?

Casey 9:43

That is, like, the top of the town. I

Kari 9:44

wanna know what weaved it's been woved, you know? I wanna know what pattern of weaving capabilities they made it. Why? Do they... Because I'm curious now. Is it a ridged, weaved, woven of wicker? Question

Casey 9:58

is, is it the circumcised weaving?

Kari 10:00

It would have to be, 'cause I can't imagine a wicker functioning- A bastion? in a, functioning in a- Like a loose, like a foreskin uncircumcised motion, you know? That

Casey 10:11

like a foreskin

Kari 10:11

kinda movement. I feel like that would hurt both parties, really. I, I

Casey 10:14

don't know. I-

Kari 10:15

I don't know. We're gonna- That, that is why we're gonna go see it. O- October what? Appar-

Casey 10:20

oh, I have no idea when this comes out. I

Kari 10:20

don't, I don't even know it. Yeah. I have no idea when it comes out. I just know it comes out in October.

Casey 10:23

But, uh, one of the big things I was looking at there was that seems to be the big concentration is so many- Oh,

Kari 10:28

we wanna see a wicker dick

Casey 10:29

so many people out there that are like, "I want the dick."

Kari 10:31

First of all, we rarely get to see dick, unless it's comical dick, and we've talked about this in episodes in the past. We don't get to s- get to see strong, powerful dick, much less strong, powerful wicker dick.

Casey 10:44

Yeah.

Kari 10:45

Never have we

Casey 10:45

ever. Do women deserve strong, powerful dick in the theater?

Kari 10:48

Yes. That's non-comical? Yes. N- Yeah like, flaccid and just, like, "Ha ha, there's a penis," that's all we get. We don't get ha ha funny tits.

Casey 10:57

So f- flaccid dick is comical?

Kari 11:00

Always.

Casey 11:00

Always? Without-

Kari 11:01

Always

Casey 11:02

without exemption?

Kari 11:02

Without fails.

Casey 11:03

Okay.

Kari 11:03

We will always laugh at u- an-

Casey 11:05

So the only serious dick is a hard dick, is that what you're saying?

Kari 11:08

Or a wicker dick.

Casey 11:09

Or a wicker dick. I mean, I feel like, see, that's, I feel like that couldn't get erect. It's just gonna be erect all the time. Th-

Kari 11:15

that, thank you. That's the point.

Casey 11:19

Which we also dove into how they, kind of like how they made the special effects for the movie.

Kari 11:24

Yeah.

Casey 11:24

Which is, at first we were like, wow, that's

Kari 11:26

a l- They should've brought in the actor of O- of Odyssey.

Casey 11:28

Which one?

Kari 11:29

Oh, I'm so sorry. The director of Odyssey. I'm so sorry.

Casey 11:32

Chris Nolan?

Kari 11:32

Let Chris Nolan make this film. It would be the most realistic.

Casey 11:38

That's an actual fucking basket. It's an

Kari 11:39

actual basket. But we're all excited about it.

Casey 11:44

Yeah. It also brought us up to kind of having a debate back and forth. We won't go into it too much right now. But we had a little debate back and forth about the conversion of interest between pornography in books, and this is in a positive light, 'cause we always talk about pornography- Yeah in a positive light. But pornography in books to shifting to on-screen, and kind of the... What's the word I'm looking for here? I've seen- Correlation? Yeah. Well, I've seen a- I don't know lot of people in the past who are like, "Pornography's okay in books, but once it shifts to screen, it's not okay."

Kari 12:16

Mm-hmm.

Casey 12:16

But now we're seeing this book shift into screen as it is, and now it's being portrayed as okay. And you, we, we disagree on this, and that's okay.

Kari 12:27

We disagree. But one and two. One, we have no idea if there's gonna be pornography in this film. We have no idea.

Casey 12:34

Well, it depends how you define pornography, which is more of a subjective term.

Kari 12:37

But we still don't know, because no one has seen it.

Casey 12:40

Right.

Kari 12:40

Secondly When you read a book and it is... I read a lot of those books.

Casey 12:48

Yep, me too.

Kari 12:49

It is not explicit male or female nudity. What we, what women don't like in s- cinema and pornography is exploiting women's bodies. But when you read a book, it is for women. Mm. It is portrayed in a, like, consensual, sexy, he's doing this to me, I'm the receiver mentality. So to equate sex in a book to what you see in cinema, I, we, women would love it to actually show what we read in a book. Our complaint is that it's not shown in cinema. It's not the same thing.

Casey 13:31

Is that the complaint? Y-

Kari 13:32

yes. Yeah, I'm a woman. Yep, that is the complaint.

Casey 13:36

I'm, I agree with you on that.

Kari 13:38

Yeah, for sure. Yes. Because again, in, in cinema or even in pornography, we love porn.

Casey 13:43

Mm-hmm.

Kari 13:44

But that's also why we watch porn geared towards women.

Casey 13:48

Yeah, but I, I mean, you know me- that I agree with that.

Kari 13:50

No, I know you do. All I'm saying is for this book to be put on film or whatever, first of all, we can't even really discuss this because we haven't seen it yet, but if it was to ex- exploit a wicker dick-

Casey 14:09

I'm not talking about exploitation at all

Kari 14:10

then what are you talking about?

Casey 14:11

So in, in my opinion, whenever I see that somebody that says the difference between showing pornography, and I don't, I don't mean this as exploitation. Mm-hmm. I... Let's say that it's consensual all around, and it's well done and everything else. The argument, and this is not everybody, this is a sect of people who will sit back and say that sex in aggressive manners, any way, any way that it is in a book is okay, but once it becomes on screen it's not okay. Again, this is not against everybody by any means whatsoever. But I have had and I've seen arguments online where it is like, "Oh, no, it's okay because it's in a book. It's not okay when it's on screen."

Kari 14:53

I think you're talking to the wrong people turning from auditory to visually. Then I think you're listening to the wrong people. I think that our- I'm saying

Casey 14:59

the argument exists

Kari 15:00

oh, well, of course it does- And I was curious your input about it but, but the people that have that argument don't listen to our podcast anyways. The people that have that argument that say that it's okay to read it but it's not okay to see it, all I'm saying it's not our viewers. Those aren't the people that we listen to. Okay, well,

Casey 15:17

I'm not, I'm just-

Kari 15:17

So it's like-

Casey 15:18

I'm talking about an argu- I'm literally talking about just an argument and, and discussing it.

Kari 15:24

That's it. Then I just think it's very unfortunate for those people, you know? All right. I, I would hate to think that way. I feel sorry for someone that thinks that way, that I can read it but can't see it. I get your point, I, I promise you, I really do. But, like- I, I think the people that are against seeing it but are okay reading it, I, I don't know where their, like, loyalties lie almost. Like, where do you, where do you justify reading it and then not seeing it? I get your point, I promise.

Casey 15:55

Watch. Yeah, look for it. You'll see it a lot more.

Kari 15:56

Yeah.

Casey 15:57

It's because it's been, it's been something that I've been like-

Kari 16:00

Have you seen it to do more with this book now? I'm just curious, or has it been- Oh, no, I, I think that this- in, like, other things in

Casey 16:06

the past this is personal, that it, once I saw the attention being given to this movie as it's coming out, drew me back towards that- Mm argument. Because I've, I, again, I've seen that argument a lot.

Kari 16:17

Mm-hmm.

Casey 16:18

It's not widespread, and I'm not trying to shit on anybody for having a good time. Like, I'm not gonna yuck your yum, right?

Kari 16:23

No. Yeah, I know. But

Casey 16:24

what I do wanna do is just kind of speculate about the, about this argument. I

Kari 16:30

mean, you could be bringing that up right now and someone having an aha moment. Oh, you're right. I do-

Casey 16:35

I would hope so. That's part of what we're trying to do. I,

Kari 16:36

I do read it in a book every day, and then I get mad when I see it on screen. Yeah. Yeah. I hear you. Yeah, absolutely.

Casey 16:42

So either way, you know that we're gonna be in theaters to see this movie.

Kari 16:45

I cannot wait to see it.

Casey 16:46

I'm going to see it. You're going to see it. I'm probably gonna be with a, a fun group of women to go see it. It's gonna

Kari 16:50

be a- Yeah, 'cause I already have a group of girls that wanna see it, and they already know that you're included in that because you are I don't wanna say you're not one of the guys, but you're like the guy that gets included in the girls' stuff.

Casey 17:01

You know what I like. Look, I, I'm here for it. I like this kind

Kari 17:04

of stuff. You're the guy that all the women feel safe with. Yeah. Oh, no.

Casey 17:08

That's been, I've worked very hard for that, too. Yeah.

Kari 17:10

Yeah, you, I mean, you work hard at it, but you're also, you don't have to work at it neither. Yes. Just to say. Just to say. Okay, so we have, like, eight topics. What do you wanna talk about next?

Casey 17:22

Um, l- wanna talk about boudoir?

Kari 17:25

Ooh. Yeah. Yeah, you have been a little bit passionate about this. I mean, our

Casey 17:27

s- our

Kari 17:27

segues

Casey 17:28

suck right now. Oh, we don't care. I would love

Kari 17:29

to have, like,

Casey 17:29

this nice, awesome one.

Kari 17:30

No, that's fine. Yeah.

Casey 17:32

But we don't, so. But

Kari 17:32

we have a list of things we wanna discuss. That's fine. But what do you wanna discuss into boudoir? Uh, so- Because you added this note.

Casey 17:38

Yeah, this is something that I've noticed more recently, and, uh, this is something that I'm I can't say that I've experienced myself because we've done couples bou- boudoir before. But one thing that I've seen a lot more recently is a lot more couples doing boudoir, and I love that. I think that, like, more power to you. You should. Absolutely. You should ex- support each other in your own bodies and, like, do this stuff that, that makes you feel sexy, and keep these books about it. It's really cool. Having said that, guys that are going with your wives- Or your girlfriends or, or whoever- Whatever, yeah to, or partners, to do boudoir, you don't look very interested to be there.

Kari 18:17

No, they look like, they, I don't wanna say they look scared- You look uncomfortable but they look, like, uninterested.

Casey 18:22

You look very uncomfortable for sure.

Kari 18:24

Out of the 50 I've seen, I think there's only one guy that I saw that, like, looked into it, like, actually into it.

Casey 18:30

Yeah.

Kari 18:31

And even then, that was one frame out of the 100 that they took.

Casey 18:34

Yeah.

Kari 18:34

You know?

Casey 18:35

So the, I wanna, I have a message. I think that part of it lies on, and I, sorry, guys, but I'm saying it, on the photographers.

Kari 18:44

You think so?

Casey 18:44

I have seen so many photographers that do boudoir that help women feel empowered, that help them feel comfortable, that are complimenting them and telling them how beautiful they are, and they, they bring this personality out of them that just really flows with the camera work. Okay,

Kari 19:01

so you're thinking that they don't do that with men?

Casey 19:03

I am.

Kari 19:04

But do you think that they know how to talk to men?

Casey 19:06

That's, see, the, right, this is, this is the rabbit hole, right? Is that-

Kari 19:10

Cause, like, I know how to tell a woman to feel sexy. I wouldn't know- How do you feel a man to, to feel sexy? I wouldn't know how to tell a man to feel sexy. Yeah. I don't-

Casey 19:16

So that's the shit, if you're gonna, if you're gonna offer it- Oh, I see what you're saying I think that one of the best things that a, that a photographer could do in that moment-

Kari 19:22

Mm-hmm

Casey 19:23

is to learn how to also help, or to help both partners feel comfortable, and to really bring it out. Otherwise, you're gonna see it on screen, you're gonna see it on camera, is that you're gonna have one partner who feels really comfortable in the situation, and they're doing their thing, and the other one is gonna just not look, the chemistry's not gonna be there. So creating that chemistry can be a fun thing. Figure out how to get them both into it.

Kari 19:47

So do you think that they should, like, work through different, like, plays or things to, like, get them comfortable with each other beforehand? Yeah, I think that'd be part

Casey 19:57

of it. I, I get what you're saying. I think that part of it comes from a conversation of

Kari 20:01

just, uh, connecting with

Casey 20:02

them both.

Kari 20:02

But like as a, as a woman, I w- okay, great example. I'm a hairstylist, and I do women and men's hair, right? Everyone asks me, why do I not film my men in the end? Why do I not take before and afters? Because they suck at it.

Casey 20:19

Right.

Kari 20:19

They fucking suck.

Casey 20:21

Right.

Kari 20:21

Th- there's no correct way for me as a person to know how to tell them to feel comfortable.

Casey 20:28

That, that's, right, that's the trick, that's the thing I

Kari 20:30

wanna explore. Now, I'm also not charging thousands of dollars to take photos for that. I just don't do it because I don't know how to do it. Yeah, yeah. But, but, but at the same time, as a woman that is trying to You're a male. How would you tell a male, male to be more comfortable behind the camera, then?

Casey 20:52

So in my, in my opinion, I don't think it comes from getting them, like telling them to be comfortable or doing that. I think it comes from getting them comfortable in the environment in the first place. They're entering into a space that they're not familiar with. They're entering into a space that they're not really comfortable in. You know, you're gonna have some people that are fine with it, but you're gonna have others who are Like, these are dudes.

Kari 21:13

Yeah.

Casey 21:13

Right? These are guys. A lot of the people that are, are being talked into going and doing boudoir shoots and couple boudoir shoots- It's just 'cause

Kari 21:20

their girl wants them to do it

Casey 21:21

that is right. That's It could be. Their, their

Kari 21:24

girl wants them to do it. "Hey,

Casey 21:25

come do this with me." He's like, "All, all right. I- Okay I guess I will." All

Kari 21:28

right.

Casey 21:29

And then you get there, and you're in a photography studio. Mm. And this guy's never been in a photography studio before.

Kari 21:33

Not on that level. And he's- Now it's beds and chains and- Right lon- lingerie and lighting

Casey 21:39

And most of the conversation- is around, "Hey, girl, you have access to my closet. Look at all these outfits we can put you in. Hey, girl, let's put you over here

Kari 21:46

and do this." And most times the men are in like jeans and a cowboy hat.

Casey 21:49

Right, and it's like, "Hey, stand over there until you're needed."

Kari 21:52

That's-

Casey 21:52

And then it's like, "Now come sit here and put your legs here and do that. Now we're taking pictures." I

Kari 21:56

mean, you're not wrong. It's-

Casey 21:58

If you're gonna do the couple's boudoir, you need to have the couple's comfort.

Kari 22:02

So do you think they need to have a, like a guy standing in that's like lighting but can also talk to the male?

Casey 22:07

I You got me- 'cause I'm not a fucking photographer. No,

Kari 22:10

I know.

Casey 22:10

All I can do is tell you what I've observed. Yeah. And whenever I see I, 'cause I l- I love how artistic a lot of these boudoir photographers are. They are good artists, and they do really great artwork. Yeah. And the second that it becomes a couple's one, you're like, "What happened?" It's so fun. Yeah. Like, what happened? Where'd it go? You can take- I mean- You can take women and have them feel empowered and beautiful no matter the shape, size, or anything else about them. You should be able to do the same with a guy. No matter his shape, no matter his size, you should also be able to make him feel the

Kari 22:43

same thing. I mean, sweetie, I hear you loud and clear. The biggest difference is we're not photographers.

Casey 22:48

Mm-mm. We're,

Kari 22:48

that's- We're

Casey 22:49

not, and I really hope that from this episode I get like a couple of DMs from photographers that are like, either, "Fuck you," or that are like- Or- "You know what? I agree with you" or,

Kari 22:57

Get your ass in here. Get your ass in here and instruct these men." You know what I mean?

Casey 23:03

Come, come help these men feel comfortable- Like,

Kari 23:04

hey

Casey 23:05

behind the camera.

Kari 23:05

You, you do- Or

Casey 23:06

in

Kari 23:06

front of the camera but that's the thing, though, is you do very well in front of the camera. I would like to think. But not all men are you. Not all men are gonna get invited to Wicker Dick. Do you not r- see the difference, though? You know what I mean? Like, you're not all men. You can get- Well, I understand that in front of a camera, and you have this beautiful ability to be behind camera. That, that I agree with. Not very many men I know have that ability. Anyways. Anyways, I think- Just ranting here. I love it. No, no, that's, that's what we're here for. So I'm gonna bring something up, and it's just a note that I see, and you can tell me to shut up and we move on. What are science grifters?

Casey 23:44

So you know what a grifter is.

Kari 23:45

I do, but what do you mean by this comment? Or s-

Casey 23:49

The science grifter stuff? So I, I'm- Note I'm, I'm floating aro- a- around on Instagram the other day. I, that's where I get a lot of ideas from, is just watching reels from researchers. Mm-hmm. Watching reels from educators, watching reels from professionals and all that. And I come across this page. I'm not gonna name names. I don't think that's a, a thing to do. Yeah, let's not do that, no. But it's this person who is posing themself as a as a sex educator. You know, the reality is, is that you don't really need anything to call yourself that.

Kari 24:18

Not a sex educator.

Casey 24:19

You can go through, you can go through- Yeah certifications by choice. It's all voluntary. Like

Kari 24:23

you did.

Casey 24:24

But, yes.

Kari 24:24

Like you did.

Casey 24:26

Yes. But

Kari 24:26

if- Sexual... Do you wanna plug it real fast? Sexual Health Alliance, just saying. We

Casey 24:30

lo- we love plugging Sexual Health

Kari 24:32

Alliance. I'm just saying, you ha- you've done this though. That's the only reason I bring it up. You've done this. You've gone to the certifications. You're not a person that's just like, you know- Right floating around, finding ran- random information. Hell, I'm

Casey 24:45

still trying to finish the certifications.

Kari 24:47

Okay, fair. I'm just saying that you've done your work. Yeah. You, you're not just this like person.

Casey 24:52

Correct. Yeah. Because what I'm talking about is the people that I've come a- that we are coming across who are saying that that's what they are. And you don't need a credential. You don't need the, the letters behind your name in order to call yourself this. But what I've seen more and more of is people who are trying to use a ill-begotten title-

Kari 25:12

Ill-begotten

Casey 25:12

in order to push their sales. So you go to their page and they're like, "I'm a sex educator. Look at me, I have 50,000 followers." Wow, that's well and amazing. You can make great content. Wonderful for you. "Hey guys, now sign up for my," whatever offering it is. Yeah. And you go, "All right. Well, what's this offering? Oh my gosh, you're offering a certification." What the fuck does that even mean? Oh, what you're saying is that you created a certification with no board advisory, with no regulation, with nothing at all to say that anyone that pays me 3 to $5,000 can then now say, "I'm certified in system X or system Y." But to begin with, the person who's offering this is a nobody, is a random person who decided one day that they were gonna start doing some research, and then after a little while of doing that, they put it into a coursework, and now they're selling it for thousands of dollars.

Kari 26:13

That's what gets me. That's fucked up. Thousands of dollars. You, you, you went to what? ChatGPT?

Casey 26:20

You'd be surprised how many people actually do.

Kari 26:22

That's what I'm saying, though. You, you went on there and said, "Hey, this is what I wanna do." And, like, in part, cool. Smart angle. But you're s- you're a dick. That's a dick angle. Smart

Casey 26:35

angle, but you're a dick.

Kari 26:36

You're a dick. You have no... The thing is, is anything can tell you what to do, but until you have personal experience in that, you don't actually know.

Casey 26:46

Theoretical experience can get you far. Like, let's- Yes, it can let's, let's be real there. Yes. We can get far with theoretical experience. But

Kari 26:52

life fucking experience. You know- Is also an important part you and I could have not... You and I would not go out and talk an entire podcast episode on going to a sex party if you and I had not gone to a sex party. No. We wouldn't do it. Nope. I don't care what ChatGPT- I wouldn't

Casey 27:08

teach

Kari 27:08

Shibari with

Casey 27:09

being like-

Kari 27:09

told me

Casey 27:10

Ah, chat told me to do this."

Kari 27:11

I would not. I w- I, I wouldn't do that. Just as a human, I would not tell people the experience of something that I have not actually experienced. No.

Casey 27:20

It's the same thing whenever we see people who are like, "Oh, I offer couples counseling or couples education." I don't, I'm not gonna shit on counselors here, because you guys are the fucking shit. I love y'all all, every single one of you. If you've gone through the schoolwork and you are a cer- You, you went through the education and you are certified with an LPC or an LMFT sex therapist, all that, you deserve to be exactly where you're at. I'm gearing this more towards the people who claim to be able to coach people, but they themselves haven't gone through the shit-

Kari 27:54

Yeah, exactly

Casey 27:55

and done it. So we, we've seen that before, too, where people are like, "Oh, well, I'm a, you know, I'm a couples coach. I'm an intimacy coach."

Kari 28:01

Bet you're single. No, I'm just kidding.

Casey 28:04

But they themselves are not in long-term relationships- Yeah or keep bouncing relationship to relationship. Well, I've seen people who are like, they went... There was one couple that I saw that runs a podcast that has so much of a following, and I've watched their stuff. I disagree with a lot of things that they say. Yeah. But I'll watch their stuff, and I'll get shared it by friends of mine. And I'm like, "Hey, just so you know, these guys have been together for, like, three years."

Kari 28:30

Yeah.

Casey 28:30

And they were both in, like, severely abusive relationships before this. Before. And now this, they're just saying things, and they say it with confidence. And people tend to believe whenever somebody says something enough times with enough confidence. Yeah. We see that all the time, right?

Kari 28:45

Yes, we do. Yes, we do.

Casey 28:49

So in seeing, in seeing a lot of that, it becomes frustrating and you go, "Well, who am I supposed to listen to?"

Kari 28:55

I mean, it has to be hard though. Like, you and I d- have like a general understanding, and we can, we, you help me to also sift through the bullshit. But like, I, I do feel unfortunate for people that, because the, the content is just so out there. It's everywhere out there. I feel like people are even preying on it. And it's very hard to know. Exactly, that's the thing, is like people prey on the ignorance of-

Casey 29:18

People prey on insecurity. Yeah. People prey on fear. If a message is delivered enough times and you start thinking, "I must be broken. I must be broken. I must be broken"- Mm-hmm they're creating a problem. And then, lo and behold, they're your savior- Here's a solution to come save you from that problem. Yeah, yeah. We've seen this for years. Yes. We've been in this kind of stuff. We know what the fuck we're talking about. We see it in our presidency.

Kari 29:38

Literally.

Casey 29:39

I've seen it all the way down to- I know to groups that we've been part of- I know in the past, where you start watching them sell from the stage. Yeah. And you start going, "Holy shit, in 10 minutes time I watched this person create a problem, introduce a solution to a problem, and then pr- represent themselves as the only one that can save you from the problem."

Kari 29:58

Yep, and then I'm a, and then you're gonna have to buy the solution to that problem. Yeah.

Casey 30:02

You want it? It only costs this much.

Kari 30:04

Ugh, here's the price.

Casey 30:04

That's all it is.

Kari 30:05

Here's the price. Okay, I'm gonna go through, let's see. I'm just gonna look at random. Ooh. I feel like this is my topic. Unsolicited pics.

Casey 30:18

Okay.

Kari 30:20

As a female, I have received a ridiculous amount of dick pics. Mm-hmm. Ridiculous.

Casey 30:29

As expected.

Kari 30:30

Just ridiculous. I

Casey 30:31

don't ever receive dick pics.

Kari 30:32

That is unfortunate for you. No.

Casey 30:35

I don't present myself as, I don't know.

Kari 30:36

Wanting to receive such? I don't present myself as wanting to receive such, but my... I actually wrote this note. Unsolicited pics is truly just that.

Casey 30:50

Yeah.

Kari 30:51

They are not gender specific. They are not dick, tick, balls, ass. Don't care. If you send something without consent from the receiver, that's fucked up. You are in the wrong.

Casey 31:08

Yeah.

Kari 31:09

You are 100% in the wrong. You and I were sitting in this very position that we're sitting in now. I'm minding my own business. You're playing a video game. I'm scrolling on Facebook, and all of a sudden, what happens, Casey?

Casey 31:24

You next to me made this weird kind of noise.

Kari 31:27

What? I was like, "Ugh, ugh." Why?

Casey 31:31

You sound like Bette Midler in Hocus Pocus.

Kari 31:34

Ugh. So I open up my Facebook Messenger, and just straight tits. Sidebar, I didn't know that you could send nudes on Facebook. I thought they had, like, restrictions. Like, you

Casey 31:49

think they would be like, "Oh, you're sending this message. Are you sure you wanna send this message?"

Kari 31:52

Not even that. "We're gonna blur this message." Like, I literally thought that you could not send nudes on... It's Facebook. It's Facebook. Anyways, this ain't fucking Snapchat. This ain't Instagram And yes, I made a face and I showed Casey. And I'm like, "And y- what is the first thing you said?" I don't know if you remember, I'm gonna tell you. Oh,

Casey 32:17

I have no idea what I said.

Kari 32:19

It was, "Not in a bad way to you, what did you do, what did you say to receive this?" I didn't say anything. Yeah. I didn't do anything.

Casey 32:30

Well, that was my assumption, and it was 'cause I was

Kari 32:32

so bli- And that's, uh, that's a fair assumption

Casey 32:33

I was so blindsided by it being a, a woman sending you, another woman, a picture of herself, like tits out in a hot tub- Correct of being, like, I was like, "What, what was y'all's conversation before this?" Correct. Yes. And

Kari 32:47

then I showed you the two messages- Yeah two, before that. But here's the thing, though, that shit pisses me off. Yes, it does. I don't, I don't care who you are, that shit pisses me off. Yeah.

Casey 33:01

You need, you are looking for direct consent, "I would like to send you something. Is that cool?"

Kari 33:05

May I send you something?" Do I have permission to send you even what it's going to be?

Casey 33:11

Yeah.

Kari 33:11

But if you just send something at random with no context, that's gonna piss me off. Yeah. You are immediately breaking any level of consent, boundaries, like, I don't, I don't even know a word for it, but it's just, it's so inappropriate, and it pisses me off.

Casey 33:28

Well, it falls towards every- uh, most of that's been geared towards one gender. That's cis het men. It's

Kari 33:35

true.

Casey 33:35

Right?

Kari 33:35

True.

Casey 33:36

Who, who are the ones sending these unsolicited pictures. Yeah. And so that's what all the conversation has been geared towards. Uh, and it's not been really talked about how all-encompassing that can be. It doesn't matter your gender- Yeah it doesn't matter your sexuality- Mm-hmm it doesn't matter your orientation, you don't send something to somebody else without their personal express consent first.

Kari 33:57

And, like, you know, we've been in situations with individuals in the past where, you know, we could've been interested in them. We even met them out. And even meeting someone out in public and having a conversation with them doesn't consent to then afterward sending nudes.

Casey 34:20

Yeah.

Kari 34:21

There was nothing discussed about sending a nude. Nothing. And then here we were, you and I, minding our own business, and then we had a group chat, and then pop out a nude. And, like, if they would've asked, completely fine. I don't care how much I vibe with this person. If they would've asked, it would've been a yes, and then everything would've been fine. Yeah. But you didn't ask. You, nothing led up to that. Just boom, here's a nude. Not okay with that. At the same time, like, I can be at a bar minding me own business, and I think that because I'm a girl at a bar, another girl can come up to me and touch me in a way that I don't wanna be touched. And it is considered okay.

Casey 35:11

Yeah. 'Cause

Kari 35:12

we- There is nothing wrong with that, but really

Casey 35:15

We fr- well, you and I, we frequent a lot of queer spaces.

Kari 35:18

We do.

Casey 35:18

We frequent a lot of just various spaces, and one of the observations that we have both seen frequenting both straight, queer spaces, and everything in between- And,

Kari 35:29

yeah

Casey 35:30

is that There's a lot of verbal and sexual harassment that just goes unnoticed, unchecked

Kari 35:40

You know, I, I think there's a level that they all feel safe in their space, and I love that they feel safe in their space. Yeah, that's what they

Casey 35:47

deserve.

Kari 35:48

But they, but they can't assume that everyone else is in- Yeah that same comfort space that they're in. Yeah. I don't like to be touched. I hate being touched.

Casey 35:59

Well, we've discussed being out and be like, for example, if somebody out, is going out and they just wanna have a good time, and they're neurodivergent, and they- Yeah have an aversion to touch. Valid

Kari 36:07

point.

Casey 36:08

And you w- and a person walks up to them and then puts their hands on them, you're now in their, you're violating their space.

Kari 36:14

And you d-

Casey 36:15

You are.

Kari 36:15

Yeah.

Casey 36:16

Like, there is, there is no, "Well, I didn't mean any harm by it." That's the, that's been the fucking argument from so many people. Doesn't matter what- Doesn't matter your intentions were. You went into somebody else's personal space without express permission. Ask, "Can I put my hands on you?" Ask, "Hey, can I touch you?" Ask, "Hey, can I pay you a compliment?" It's really fucking simple to do. It really is.

Kari 36:39

It's, that's, that's literally not difficult.

Casey 36:40

But we've had, we've had times where we've been out and about, and you've had people come up and, like, grab your ass or, like, put their hands on you or, like, pull you in- Mm-hmm and, and, like, hit on you, and you're kinda going, "I didn't ask for this."

Kari 36:52

Because, again, if that was just a cisgender whatever male, I would've lost my shit.

Casey 37:00

Me too.

Kari 37:00

I would've lost my shit. But because it's a female doing it, all of a sudden I- You're

Casey 37:07

supposed to be okay with it

Kari 37:09

I'm, and maybe I shouldn't be okay with it, but there is a label of, maybe as a woman I'm like, "Oh, thank God it wasn't a male." Yeah. Because I don't know who did that. Well, there's

Casey 37:19

also that

Kari 37:19

l- Oh, thank God it wasn't a male. Oh, it's just a woman. Yeah. But then I'm like, wait a minute, I still didn't give con- Yeah I, I still didn't give consent to that.

Casey 37:26

Well, there's als- there's also that layer of power, right?

Kari 37:28

Yeah.

Casey 37:28

Um, this is something that has been discussed whenever it comes to all sorts of subjects, including, uh, prejudice, including racism, including, including assault, like that, is that it's whenever it's an ingroup v- versus an outgroup, whenever it's a group in power versus a group that is traditionally seen to be out of power.

Kari 37:46

Yeah.

Casey 37:47

Um, so it becomes more okay for the people that are out of power to have their own rules within their group. So by that, if a member of that power-riddled ingroup commits something, it's not okay. Yeah. But if a person within an ingroup does the same thing, it does become okay. However, the counterargument to that, not glorifying any ingroup or anything else, is to then say- It's not necessarily okay for anyone to behave like that, and you should be putting consent f- forward in the first place.

Kari 38:26

That, that's the goal. That would be, that would be a great goal. I would, I would- That's what we'd like to see. Yeah. That would be a great goal. I would love for people, no matter where I'm at, no matter what we're doing, to ask before just touching me. Yeah. And I think that we set the bar a little low in life, just as general, as, "Oh, it wasn't a male that touched me. Okay, I'm not gonna throw a fit." But literally no one asked permission, and they did it anyways. That doesn't really make them that different to me- Yes than the person that I was fearful of doing it, you know?

Casey 39:02

Just

Kari 39:02

asking.

39:03

Just

Kari 39:03

saying.

Casey 39:04

Just needing consent. Just

Kari 39:05

saying. Um, do you wanna... Well, I feel like we've actually evenly picked out the topics, if you would like to dive into another one.

Casey 39:13

No, it's my turn, because

39:14

this

Kari 39:14

is- It kind of is, though. I mean, we've, we've done good going back and forth, but... We have.

Casey 39:21

We have. We did great. We've been doing really well. Carrie, how are your orgasms?

Kari 39:25

I mean, better now. I

Casey 39:26

was gonna say, hopefully better now.

Kari 39:28

Mm, better now.

Casey 39:29

So me, me and Carrie are having a conversation one day. Um, if you know anything about us, we like to have this, like, brutal transparency- Mm-hmm whenever it comes to our sex life. Uh, we both firmly believe that a extreme acceptance level of communication is healthy for our relationship. So if Carrie's having an issue, if I'm having an issue, we should be able to check- Discuss it, yeah check the other person's head space, schedule a time to talk about it, and then bring up whatever it is. And I believe it was that you were like, what is it? You were like, "I'm bored with my orgasms."

Kari 39:59

Yeah, I'm super bored, dude. But, like, it wasn't just you. I was bored of, like, my own orgasms. Yeah. And I think that I made that message very clear. Um, a little backstory. You and I play truth or dare every single day that we're not together.

Casey 40:14

Yeah. We're, we're

Kari 40:15

really

Casey 40:15

big- It's a simple- on playing games over text.

Kari 40:16

Yeah, it's a simple, simple game that just allows us to open up and talk about anything. We can dare each other to do really cute, sexy things, or we can just open up about things that we don't, wouldn't normally just sit down at, like, dinner and talk about. But, like, um, you had asked me a truth, and my answer was, "Not only am I bored with my own orgasms, but I'm bored with ours."

Casey 40:39

Yeah.

Kari 40:40

Now, for people that didn't get to listen to our intro the other day you went through this major surgery.

Casey 40:47

Yes. I ruptured

Kari 40:48

my Achilles. You, you ruptured your whole fucking Achilles.

Casey 40:50

I was out, down for the count.

Kari 40:53

Yeah. And I had- Your surgery... No, so first of all, the injury was two days before my birthday, so that was in March. Yeah. And then your surgery wasn't even till June.

Casey 41:01

Correct.

Kari 41:02

So the level of intimacy that we struggled with from March to June, and then you had your surgery- Uh-huh and then we had to deal with lack of intim- intimacy from surgery June 4th- Yeah to now, which is, what- Post-surgery, which was- which is, what is today's date?

Casey 41:16

Today

Kari 41:16

August 20-something. 25th? Something like that. August 25th. Yeah. So from March to August 25th- We have had to struggle or, or-

Casey 41:30

figure out, yeah

Kari 41:31

Yeah,

Casey 41:31

alter I don't have as much power behind myself as normal.

Kari 41:33

You didn't. You do now. But you didn't. But it wasn't even just you, and that's what I was trying to really, uh, get people to understand is, like, my toys I was bored of.

Casey 41:43

Yeah. We know- Things- We know that it, it comes down to the internal environment, the external environment, the context in which things happen.

Kari 41:50

But the thing that- All of it but the thing that turns me on was you, and you were broken.

Casey 41:55

Yes.

Kari 41:55

So I wasn't feeling a lot. I, I wasn't interested in a lot. I wasn't trying to receive a lot. I just didn't really care, but that put me in a level of being like, "Well, now I'm fucking bored." I'm bored. Like, I'm not making myself come. You can't really make me come, and if you do, it is at a, at a very low base level. Yeah,

Casey 42:17

that was one of the big things that you brought up that I was like, "Okay. Well, let's work through that, then." You did. Because you were like, you were like, "I still have orgasms, but they're just-"

Kari 42:23

They're just blah.

Casey 42:24

They're not entertaining. They're not- They're... Hold on. Hold on like this high level.

Kari 42:27

Shh. They're bloop. Bloop. And I'm like, oh, well, fuck. That was over before it even built.

Casey 42:34

Yeah. But- So then what was my response to that, though? What was my response-

Kari 42:37

I mean, you- to you coming to me and saying- You just wanted to explore what that's gonna look like. Yeah. Um, you were curious and like, "Okay. Let me try to figure out your body in a new way." Yeah. "Let me try to use toys in a new way. Let's try different things that are going to just, like, recharge what I was lacking." Well,

Casey 42:53

if you remember, part of what we had discussed was the first things first is, like, let's forget about sex then. It was instead of saying like let's fix in the bedroom and all that, it was how can we engage in intimacy in a way that engages the feelings that are close by lust? You know that I'm huge on- Yeah the Fucking Intimacy Blueprint. Like, Emily Nagoski and her work is, like, one of my core philosophies whenever it comes to sex. So w- whenever she had come out with the, the Intimacy Blueprint of being like, "Hey, if you're trying to get to your partner and be sexy and, and, and engage in, like, lust and sex and all that," you don't start there. You start with emotions that are next door-

Kari 43:39

Yeah

Casey 43:39

to it. So you in- you find out where your partner is emotionally, and then you find out what emotions kind of center around that. Then you start to slowly move them towards playful and joy and things that lead into intimacy, and that was really was what we tried to engage in is be like, all right. Let's kinda take a step back from just sex right now- Yeah and being intimate. How can we engage in, in connection? How can we engage in all of the other emotions that lead towards- To, to, yeah that door of sex?

Kari 44:09

I mean, you did a great job with it, though.

Casey 44:11

Of course I did.

Kari 44:13

No, you're just intuitive, though, and that's one of the things that I super appreciate is I can bring something to you, and you're like, "This could be a common solution, but fuck the common solution. I'm gonna come up with 10 other solutions before we get to the common solution," you know? I like- Which that is... that's, that's literally what you do.

Casey 44:34

Well, yeah, 'cause I figure if I can make, like, a list of different things to possibly try, then I can review each of those and be like, "What are the likelihood that this will get us where we need to go?"

Kari 44:46

Yeah.

Casey 44:47

And then let's test those out. Let's test the waters with each of these, and if it starts to be successful, great. I don't have to abandon the fucking plan. No. I can go, "Nope, that one didn't work, so let me pivot to the next one." Being prepared in that way is such a freeing experience because you don't feel so flying by the seat of your pants reactional to things, and things can happen more naturally.

Kari 45:07

So whenever I brought that to you, though, was there, like, a level of discomfort or intimidation or, like, upset?

Casey 45:16

No. I, I would love to- Why? I would love to be able to say, like, "Oh my God, it was devastating."

Kari 45:21

I don't think it would be devastating, but, like, why was, why was there not, like, a Any level of upset, and the only reason I'm asking this is for, like, a listener. When their partner comes to them and says, "Hey, I'm bored in our bedroom," and why should they not feel upset by that?

Casey 45:39

Uh, this can be a couple of reasons. In most of the stuff that I've read over, it's... I, I do have a principle that you are responsible for your own orgasms. Let me... And I wanna clarify on that. I'm not saying that coming is up to you and I have nothing to do with it, because that's not the truth. Yeah. I think that I have a large part to play in that, so do you. Mm-hmm. But I think it's a shared responsibility. Uh, and you coming to me in the first place and saying that allows me to recognize that. I think that there's so many of those, like, men out there who are like, who are like, "I make her the... come. I make this happen," all that. Yeah. And you go, "No." The context of the scene that you're in, the, your environment and all that is what drives someone towards orgasm. So if I'm going to participate it's us. It's an us thing. So if you come to me, you say, "Hey, uh, the us thing isn't really working right now." No, I don't take that personally. I take that as a, a, a level of vulnerability you're expressing to me. Yeah. You're letting your shields down and saying, "I'm coming to you with an issue." What can we do about this? I feel closer to you because of that

Kari 46:44

Because I'm able to talk- What- to this with you and you not make me feel ashamed or wrong or embarrassed for bringing it up.

Casey 46:50

Right. What would drive- Yeah me away is if I somehow, like, later found out that it was all of your, anything you were doing was just faked and you- Yeah were hiding it because you didn't feel like you could come to me. And-

Kari 47:02

And that's not okay

Casey 47:03

yeah, and you felt like you were, needed to play a role in the bedroom, and it was just all for show. That- Yeah, that would not be okay the discovery of that would drive me the fuck away. But you letting your shields down, being vulnerable, coming to me, and giving me- Mm-hmm an issue that was, that you, that you had allows me to then go, "All right. Cool. Let's figure it out together. Like, let's sit down and, and kinda discuss it. I'm not gonna be here to solve your problem, but I'm definitely gonna be here to support you and hold space for you- Yeah and help you feel more relaxed so we can figure it out together."

Kari 47:34

And but then that's the thing, though, too, though, is you setting up that level of understanding, acceptance, and knowledge in, like, what you can do moving forward is what allowed me to bring this to you. I would not have been able- Right. We set the stage. I'm sorry?

Casey 47:50

I said we set the stage.

Kari 47:51

Yeah. Like, I would not be able to, in any of my past relationships, talk about this the way that I could talk about it with you. I would never fucking bring it up. I would just never come again.

Casey 48:03

Yeah.

Kari 48:03

But I would never bring it up.

Casey 48:04

And we've

Kari 48:04

had pe- Because I never felt safe enough to br- to have the ability to bring it up.

Casey 48:07

And we've had people that we've talked to in the past who have been like, "Oh, I just, I just fake my orgasms, and we just kinda do our thing, and, you know, everything's okay." You go, "But it's not." No. Like, I see it. It's

Kari 48:18

not. I don't, I don't wanna just be neutral with someone.

Casey 48:21

Yeah.

Kari 48:21

I wanna be on cloud fucking nine, and I don't care what it takes to get there, and it takes a lot of difficult conversations. It takes a lot of work. It takes a lot of fucking truth or dares. It takes a lot of stupid fucking conversations. It takes a lot of random arguments- To be able to grow continually with someone because, again, I, we, both of us, we're not here to coast.

Casey 48:43

Right.

Kari 48:44

N- that's none of our intentions, and I think that's part of why we wanted to do this show in the first place is, like, who else are the people that either need guidance to not coast or are like-minded and don't wanna coast at all, and we're just this fun little individuals that they can hear and be like, "Oh, yeah, me too," you know? But I think it's a big, important aspect of a relationship is to be able to continue to grow together, and I wouldn't be able to grow with you, truthfully and, uh, a little bluntly, if my orgasms just fucking stopped.

Casey 49:18

Yeah.

Kari 49:19

I know I wouldn't.

Casey 49:20

Yeah.

Kari 49:20

Just like you wouldn't.

Casey 49:21

Yeah. But as we, as we said, if, if you're in a, in a successful, good relationship, feeling the ability To approach your partner with a serious topic and have the knowledge and let's face it, expectation-

Kari 49:39

Mm-hmm

Casey 49:39

that when you divulge the information that you have about yourself to them is not going to be met with judgment, is not gonna be met with- Mm-hmm persecution. Yeah. Is not gonna be met with any sort of negativity, but it's gonna be met with the ability to hear it. Yeah. And I, I may not always like it. You may say something that's- Yeah uncomfortable. You may say something that I, I disagree with, but my, my knee-jerk response must be quelled in order for me to then really hear what you're saying and then come back with, "I see you and I hear you." Mm-hmm. A validation of your emotions, a validation of what you're experiencing, and then inject my own- Knowledge into it

Kari 50:27

Yeah. Or even just, yeah, knowledge, understanding Yeah And that's been one of the biggest things with us, though, is that you've never not given me knowledge and understanding in what we have dealt with together, though

Casey 50:39

Right

Kari 50:40

Like, can we just say I can't wait to get my braces off? Can you imagine the level of head you're about to get- when I get my fucking braces off?

Casey 50:50

I know we've talked about that a few times.

Kari 50:52

Oh my God.

Casey 50:53

We've had to adapt

Kari 50:54

Oct- August 31st, braces are coming off. O- off the bed head is coming, man.

Casey 51:01

You said it.

Kari 51:02

But you were super patient You said it.

Casey 51:03

That is on record.

Kari 51:04

But you were super patient with me dealing with that Yeah You had to deal with me having braces since fucking January.

Casey 51:10

And what's been my re-

Kari 51:10

Just as I have

Casey 51:11

Well, and what's been my response to every, like, "Oh, I can't do this the way that I'd like to"-

Kari 51:15

I know

Casey 51:16

is, "Well, let's take a step back- Yeah and adapt to it."

Kari 51:18

You have.

Casey 51:18

I'm not gonna be the whiny guy that's like- "Uh, I'm not getting the wings" "No, but I s- I want this. I just really want it, and just do it like that" No. No. You've been

Kari 51:26

great. But that's also something that we've been able to discuss, be open about, and it's something that we're like, "Hey, we're looking forward to this. I can't freaking wait. I can't freaking wait to be able to bend my head over backwards and give you this level of head that I've been wanting, that you've been wanting, that we've all been wanting."

Casey 51:43

All of us.

Kari 51:44

Yeah, the viewers too.

Casey 51:45

The vie- We have vie- I didn't know we had viewers. Where are those cameras?

Kari 51:52

Anyways.

Casey 51:53

Look, this has been a great discussion Yeah I think that we are good to call it for the day Yeah,

Kari 51:57

we are

Casey 51:57

So for another episode of Naughty by Nature, we're your hosts. I'm Dr. Casey Sanders.

Kari 52:02

And I'm Carrie Sanders

Casey 52:03

And we'll see you on the next one