HR truths for Salon Owners with Taryn Evans

Ever wished you had a people and culture director on speed dial for those tough leadership moments?

We sit down with our long-time friend Taryn, a seasoned director of people and culture, to talk through fair terminations, sick leave patterns, feedback that truly lands, and repairing workplace culture in a way that feels human, practical, and doable.

We start with one of the hardest parts of leadership: ending employment with respect. Taryn shares a clear, defensible approach built on setting expectations, giving genuine opportunities to improve, and documenting each step so when it is time to part ways, it can be done with kindness and clarity. From there, we explore chronic sick leave in service-based businesses, where last-minute call-ins impact clients and revenue, and how compassionate boundaries paired with clear consequences help reset patterns.

Taryn also offers steady scripts for emotional one-on-ones, guidance on supporting mental health while holding standards, and tools for rebuilding culture through trust-based conversations, values alignment, and structured mediation. We cover how to address gossip, cliques, and passive aggression, plus practical ways to coach performance without triggering defensiveness.

We round out the episode with advice on workplace celebrations, psychosocial safety, and small changes that lift both wellbeing and results.

If you lead a salon and want real-world scripts, steps, and systems that make you calmer and your team stronger, this episode is your toolkit. 

Subscribe, leave a review, and share it with another owner who is ready to lead with both compassion and backbone.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:06

Welcome back, guys. We've got someone very special. We're gonna be on our best behavior here because we do have one of our mates in the studio today.

SPEAKER_02 0:13

This is like we used to play netball together. How many years ago was that?

SPEAKER_00 0:18

Oh my god, 20 years ago.

SPEAKER_02 0:19

No, not 20. 15.

SPEAKER_00 0:22

15.

SPEAKER_03 0:22

Was it? Yeah. Oh my god, no, seriously. I was reflecting, you know, when you asked me to do this and sit in this illustrious chair. Um, how long we've known each other. And it would be 20 years. Twenty years.

SPEAKER_02 0:38

Whole probably how three. Probably longer one of my longest relationships. How good?

SPEAKER_00 0:43

Question one, what position did you play on the netball team? Were you a bit of You're a wing, weren't you? Or a centre? I was a centre and a goal shooter.

SPEAKER_02 0:50

She was a yeah, and she Tarry was uh always good in the attack and the defense, actually, I'd say. But my mem excuse me, as I get the frog out of my throat, my memories of playing netball with Taryn. She is like me, little pocket rocket. And then when she gets pissed off, it's on. But as soon as it's done, we're all good. Shake hands with the other two. Big smile, big cuddle. But yeah, it was um let's start netball again first.

SPEAKER_03 1:18

I don't think my knees will hold up. Of course they will, Darl.

SPEAKER_02 1:21

You're in better shape than me, and I'm prepared to go.

SPEAKER_03 1:23

Maybe, maybe on the outside, but the inside's desperately broken.

SPEAKER_02 1:27

Disagree.

SPEAKER_00 1:28

But anyway, we'll talk about that on osteoporosis after the episode. But Taryn Evans, one of our beautiful girlfriends, is here. Uh and she's not in the industry, so everyone's wondering why she's here.

SPEAKER_02 1:39

But can we say where you have been? Because this is just wrapped. Are you am I allowed to say where you have been as of last discussion? Yeah, of course. Yeah, yeah. So Tarry was has just wrapped the Oz open. So she's come straight from Novak, uh, I was gonna say Novak and Jov Djokovic. Djokovic v. Alcaraz. So she's had a late night. Brighton, look at her. Bush eye, boy, does it, sparkly eye, brushy tail, all the hot things.

Meet Taryn: People And Culture Director

SPEAKER_00 2:05

Thank you for coming. Thank you. But Terry, the reason that we wanted to get you in here was because even with you being a client in the salon, when we've stood behind the chair, the amount of times that we've picked I actually hate myself for this, but the amount of times that we've picked your brain or asked for your opinion or perspective of something, because you work in HR. And I feel that the biggest challenge, actually, I'm gonna say majority of the challenges that we that we help salon owners with, but also that we um, you know, help them, help link them in with the right people as well to help them, help support them, is usually around team and culture. And you happen to be the director of people and culture in the company that you work for.

unknown 2:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:46

So we thought we'd drag you into the studio and ask you a few questions that people had submitted in our community so that we can work out how hard is it to actually fire someone? You know, what would I do in this situation? Give me some prompts on how to handle this. So we're gonna put you in the hot seat and do a bit of a fire round.

SPEAKER_03 3:03

Great, bring it on. You're already? I will preface. I will preface. I'm not an employment lawyer. No, yes, I do have a bit of experience with employment lawyers and navigating my own way through, you know, challenges in the workplace, obviously being in people and culture for sort of 20-ish years, probably ever since I started playing Nebul. When it needed it, that's enough.

SPEAKER_02 3:23

I'm not sure there's a reason for that. I think, yeah, so basically, cut don't come for us. We're not giving legal advice.

SPEAKER_00 3:29

I feel like our lawyer Kim would appreciate us saying this. We're not giving legal advice, we're not giving financial advice at any point on this podcast. We're just talking about in our own experience and if you choose to guidelines, do what you like.

SPEAKER_02 3:39

Yeah, what's that thing? It's just like a little chew chat.

Firing Fairly And Documenting Properly

SPEAKER_00 3:43

So I'm gonna see how many we can get through because we've had a lot of questions that have come through. Obviously, people were very excited to get some free HR advice from you. First question: if I need to fire someone, what is the cleanest, safest way to do it? What do I say? And do I need to put it in writing?

SPEAKER_03 4:03

A few layers to it, I think. Um, as there always is. Humans are complicated. Um, and so, you know, the the cleanest and the easiest way to do it is with respect, of course. Oh, I love that. And with a view that um, I mean, the the sort of casualized version in my mind is the way that I say it. It's probably true for relationships too, but the workplace is sort of similar, is there's a lid for every pot. If you've got somebody in your workplace that um, you know, things aren't working out for whatever reason, whether it's dynamic, whether it's performance, whether it's conduct, like whatever's going on, is there's a deeper, there's often a deeper reason behind why that's going on. Um, and so treating that individual with some some respect and recognising that perhaps this pot isn't the right place for their lid, if that makes any sense.

SPEAKER_02 4:53

So it's sort of I'm dropping the square pair groundhole analogy and I'm doing the pot and lid analogy from now on. Already got a nugget, so thank you. I love that.

SPEAKER_03 5:02

Um it's sort of taking that perspective and saying that maybe maybe they're better off somewhere else, but also giving different entirely completely completely new kitchen. We're talking about serious topics, but another thing you'll learn about me is I don't take myself too seriously. Yes, it's in HR, yes, we're talking about people's employment, but having- You'd have to as well.

SPEAKER_00 5:27

Like I feel like otherwise you wouldn't have you ever used that analogy when you've been sacking someone? Not to their fate. That would be such a good way to let them down. You're uh you're a square container and I am a spatula. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 5:41

That's amazing. So yeah, it's it's giving people an opportunity opportunity to improve and being really clear with them that hey, here's here are the expectations. Let's work through a way that we can help you meet them. Um, giving them an opportunity, making sure that you're documenting every step along the way. It's sort of typically a three-strike rule. Um, you talk to them, you sit them down, you document them, you give them an opportunity opportunity to improve. If they don't, you sit them down again, you have the same conversation, you haven't met these expectations, you document again and you do that sort of three times over. And then you've you've essentially met your obligation from um from a legal standpoint. And what if you were to end up unfortunately in a fair work type situation, that's typically what they would look at.

SPEAKER_02 6:28

This is one of the biggest things I think that people often, because we had this even I think a week or two ago with one of our clients who had to do a written warning. She's like, Do I have to actually physically give it? I was like, Yes, it needs to be like the documentation, we need to have like evidence of it, because otherwise it is just hearsay. That's where it can get complicated and challenging. So the biggest thing I'm hearing from that, write everything down, have everything in documents. Keep making sure that you can hit the expectation. And if you can't, we've done all weekend.

SPEAKER_00 6:57

You've done all you can. Yeah.

Chronic Sick Leave And Compassionate Boundaries

SPEAKER_02 6:58

Love it.

SPEAKER_00 6:59

Love. Okay, next one. I've got a team member who is constantly calling in sick last minute. Like every week or every second week, she's sick. It's starting to impact clients. The rest of the team are pissed off. And I feel like I'm walking on eggshells. We hear this every other week. I feel like I'm walking on eggshells every time I bring it up. I want to handle this properly and fairly, but I also want it to stop. What can I do here? I feel like I need to say this to you because you work in corporate. In a service-based industry where you have to rely on your team turning up in order for anything to happen. Obviously, that's true in corporate too. I understand this person's frustration, like, even though we've changed our mindset so much on sick leave. I used to feel like this, so I resonate with this. But that feeling of like, oh my god, this team member's constantly sick. Can I even bring up the fact that there's so much sick leave here? Because we're in a service-based industry, so you're like, okay, I've got to contact 30 people today.

SPEAKER_03 7:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:54

You know, it's huge. What are your thoughts?

SPEAKER_03 7:57

Yeah, there's a massive impact on your business and your operations, on, you know, particularly the last minute nature that, you know, sickness often comes up in the notification that you're given. Um, and so you've really got to, and as you guys would know, is you've really got to weigh up that impact or the human impact and what again, it sort of goes back to my previous answer. Like, what is actually going on? Is there an illness? Is this is there engagement issues? Do you just not want to be here anymore? Like what have a really humanistic conversation compassionately to understand what's actually going on with that person. Um, at the same time, you've got to still run your business. You've got, you know, frontline customers, clients that are relying on you to provide a service. They've reorganized their lives around that appointment, or they've got something that, you know, is really important to them. This is why they're getting, you know, some treatment done, or whatever it is. Um, and so you've got to really try and find that balance. And it's tricky. And it, you know, circumstances will be different depending on the individual and and what's actually going on. Um, in I mean, if it was my business, what I would do is um pair that person's if if it's possible without impacting your business operations and your revenue, you'd actually pair that person's client load back and be like, hey, there's consequences to your actions and there's consequences to how you're showing up or not showing up to our business. Um so let's sit down and have a really like important and authentic conversation about what's going on with you. Um because this can't continue.

SPEAKER_02 9:29

What I can hear you saying with this is like have open communication on this, like have a con have a courageous conversation where you say, Hey, what's going on? I'm noticing this, this is a pattern, but you know, reliability is becoming an issue.

SPEAKER_03 9:42

And I can imagine too, as a business owner, like it would really piss you off. Like the the emotion that that invokes um when it starts to impact your brand, your clients, their experience, it can yeah, it can really rile up some anger and frustration. It's just important to really just just calm it down and approach it with like approach that person with compassion in the first instance. And then similarly, back to the first answer, if it's not improving, you've got your three-step process that you keep going back to.

SPEAKER_00 10:15

We've really changed our mind on the whole sick leave thing because it used to be something that you'd be like, you'd see someone's name pop up on your phone and be like, Fucking hell, it's happening. Here we go again, here we go again. And we really changed it to every single team member is entitled to their sick leave. We assume that they're gonna take all of their sick leave. And sometimes our girls even have said, I'm having a day, I need a mental health day. And we're like, that is 100% fine. So I think there's a you know it's communicated though, I feel that's we yeah, we have a responsibility as a business owner to be regulated in that moment. On the flip side, when I hear that this is a person's like every week, this is common for sellings as well. Like it can be common for an emerging team, like apprentices. And it's really hard to know can I bring this up? Am I allowed to bring this up? Is this warranted? Is this like, you know, can I make a big deal out of this? So that's huge.

SPEAKER_01 11:06

Yeah.

Emotions In One‑On‑Ones And Support Plans

SPEAKER_00 11:06

Um, okay, cool. Next question. This is someone that this is something that like we hear all the time. Every time I have a one-on-one meeting with my team member, I sorry, I have a team member who cries, gets defensive, and then says that she has mental health issues. How do I hold the line and keep the conversation professional? What do I say?

SPEAKER_03 11:28

That's a juicy one.

SPEAKER_02 11:28

That is, that's a juicy one.

SPEAKER_03 11:30

It's harder than coordinators.

SPEAKER_02 11:34

Um that's a big one.

SPEAKER_03 11:35

Yeah, I mean it's important to understand what kind of mental health issues we're talking about. And and taking as a leader, taking it upon yourself to learn about what sort of reasonable what we call sort of in the industry, reasonable workplace adjustments that you need to make in the workplace to ensure that that person can still operate successfully and show up successfully in your work environment.

SPEAKER_02 12:06

So effectively like an action plan, like a bit of a like, okay, cool, this is what's going on, this is how we can support you to be able to Correct.

SPEAKER_03 12:13

Great. Okay, cool. That's that sort of yeah, support plan is is probably much nicer than that. Why are we gonna keep get back in reasonable workplace adjustments? Like it's just write that down. Yeah. So I think it's it's understanding and trying to approach the individual with some, again, compassion and transparency around help me understand what are your mental health challenges and how the workplace might be contributing to um sort of exacerbating those and what adjustments we can make in start times, time between clients, what type of clients are allocated to you, type of work, like how you want to work, how you want to work.

SPEAKER_02 12:52

Scale back to like part-time or something like that. Exactly. Yeah. That was even just that, uh how that is exact uh what you what's the word? You said exacerbating, I can't say the word now. Those things rather than like I said, contributing. I feel like even your wording on that is really amazing with like how this potentially could add or not add.

SPEAKER_00 13:10

That's I also want to say, guys, notice Taryn's when she's giving phrases, notice her language. You said help me understand. This is something that we say, and this is what we teach our stalem leaders to say as well.

SPEAKER_02 13:22

I'm pretty sure I actually learnt it from you with help me understand.

SPEAKER_00 13:26

Yeah, because I'd always be saying, tell me what's wrong. That's not really like Well, we'd often say tell me what's going on, as opposed to help me understand, or I'm curious to know you know, where where are you needing more support and and that language is really important. So I would kind of more welcoming, yeah. Like the door is open, defences will go down. Yeah. I love that. And I think there's a really big difference between when you have a team member in front of you and they get emotional in a one-on-one. We've had that before, and often what we'll do is we'll say, It's okay, like I'm not gonna I'm not gonna give you a hug right now. I want you to take your time and then we'll we'll come back in when you're ready, but just take your time, we're gonna have this conversation. So still holding the line there with that conversation to be had, often it's around performance and numbers, and looking at how we can really empower them as opposed to making it this big is it always wants to be a a conversation of inspiration and empowerment as opposed to being something that's harder, more difficult.

SPEAKER_01 14:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:26

Stunning. Okay, next one. What's the fastest way to tell if I have hired the wrong person? These are hard.

SPEAKER_03 14:37

I would say trust your instinct that you will know within well you're in you're in business or um and you've made it to that to that position for a really good reason. You've worked really hard and particularly the and in as you say, in the service-based industry, you come across a lot of different people coming in and out of your business, whether you they work for you or they're your clients, you're a good read of people. You'll know within the first five minutes. It's just whether you actually listen to that instinct and that gut around just how they show up, how they interact, how they are curious and they ask questions of others, um, the people that they're starting to work with and build those relationships, you'll know within the first five minutes. Just listen to your instinct. Totally.

Trusting Instincts On Bad Hires

SPEAKER_00 15:23

And I feel like young business owners, as in like people who have just gone into business or have been in business a couple of years or who are leading for the first time, we ignore it for so long. That intuition when you're like gut instinct says not the right person, but oh, I really want to try and work with this person, I want to make it better, I want to do this. We know listening to that intuition. It's the lid in the pots, isn't it? It's the lid in the pots. Okay, next one. Common for client for salons. How do I handle gossip and clicks in my salon without turning into the police? Turning into the police, okay, like without being a hard ass. Um, what exact language do I use to shut it down? That's a good one.

SPEAKER_03 16:02

That is a really good one, and so common in every workplace. You know, you get you know different social groups and you know, depending on the and it's actually regardless of the size of your workplace, it's just human nature. It's human nature.

SPEAKER_02 16:15

Like, isn't that thing that we spend more time with people that you work with more than anyone else in our lives? Yeah, 100%. It will happen.

SPEAKER_03 16:21

It'll happen. Um, so I think the first thing to remember is you're not going to stamp it out and you don't really need to. Like, you know, humans are humans, and you know, if we sit back and reflect on ourselves, like we we don't mind a little gossip every now and then with our pals on the weekend.

SPEAKER_00 16:35

Um Karen, what do you really think about Tess?

SPEAKER_03 16:38

Love, pure love, pure love and gratitude.

Gossip, Cliques, And Resetting Norms

SPEAKER_02 16:41

Um Yeah, we played Netball. We go way back, so start again, okay? Anyway, gossip. What do you think? Wait, how's the best way?

SPEAKER_03 16:49

Yeah, I mean, there probably isn't one way. It'll be very different to the dynamic.

SPEAKER_02 16:54

Um would it depend on the situation then as well? Like if it was like obviously if it was like harmful or bullying or things like that, you'd like handle that in a certain type of way. Totally. If it was like just sort of like I don't know, just like, you know, not like snickering in the corner. That's all I can think about.

SPEAKER_00 17:10

Shitty attitude, or you start to feel like it's clicky. Would you say, guys, come in, let's have a conversation.

SPEAKER_03 17:17

So actually, I had I was talking to somebody the other day in a in a different circumstance, and they were telling me about a really formative leadership experience that they have had throughout their career, and they had um, and they're a sort of young leader, and so we were sort of talking about how yeah, their leadership journey and how they've learned along the way, and they had a particular circumstance where this was happening in their workplace, and they were the leader of this very large workforce. Um, and they tackled it head on. They got all of them in a room and said and basically read the Riot Act and said, This is not on, not happening anymore. Wow, here are my expectations, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And it blew up in their face. Did not work. Um, it just the relationships and the respect just what just weren't there in a conversation of like, here's the expectation.

SPEAKER_02 18:11

Yeah. It blew up in their face and the double fingers.

SPEAKER_03 18:13

Yeah, basically. And got yeah, got hugely worse. And so if you look at the other sort of um option to that is trying to understand what's going on and why, and just doing a little bit of a diagnostic around what is the root cause of this, and you might not know unless you start actually talking to people. And so my advice in the first instance is and you kind of your first reaction was you two here. And you kind of drag them in the office and say, What's going on? and read read the right act.

SPEAKER_00 18:43

Would never do that, by the way.

SPEAKER_03 18:44

No, no, we're just using it's chit chatting, we're nothing, nothing formal.

SPEAKER_02 18:47

It's all um fun.

SPEAKER_03 18:49

So it's trying to understand the root cause a little bit and trying to build the relationships and build the trust one-on-one with the team members, and so that they individually understand your expectations. And so sort of like the power dynamic shifts a little bit to be like, hey, it leader to to team member expectations. This is this is what I stand for and this is what I expect. And then equally you have that same conversation with maybe the other person involved and then the rest of the team, if they're involved or not. And so you're all on a level playing field, and then so the dynamic and the relationship between the rest of the team shifts a little bit because you've made it really clear and you've built that connection.

SPEAKER_02 19:30

That makes sense actually, because even when I'm thinking about that, if you were to do it like with the two people together, that would potentially they could walk out of that and be like, can you fucking believe that? And then it can like that makes sense. So it's almost like a bit of a circuit breakup. Yeah. Cool, let's touch base here, let's touch base there, and then we can all move forward.

SPEAKER_00 19:46

Yeah. Do you know what? We had this in our team in the last couple of years, I'm gonna say. Yeah, sure. I'm gonna be respectful about how I say it. Again, human nature. Yeah. And the way that we dealt with it. The way that we dealt with it was we actually had a realignment conversation and we sat the team down and went through our values and basically laid out the expectation as a team without necessarily saying this is the problematic situation. So we had a really clear realignment chat, which was actually really powerful, and even the team members who were nowhere near involved found it really realigning as well.

SPEAKER_01 20:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:20

Um, and then we pulled the team members who were involved separate and basically said, you know, what's going on? It's human nature, what's going on, however, this is what our expectation is. These are what our values are. How do these values actually feel to you? Do you still embody these values? Do you still feel aligned to these values, or do we need to have a different conversation? Yeah. And it actually worked out beautifully. There's an old version of ours that would have been like in the back office, you know, and have that. I still have to fight that.

SPEAKER_02 20:47

That's still the thing that I want to fight. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:49

It's it's hard. Leadership is emotional. It's really hard. Yeah.

unknown 20:54

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 20:54

So good. I'm so grateful. Thank you.

Delivering Client Complaints With Care

SPEAKER_00 20:57

A client complains about a team member. This is a really good question. A client complains about a team member. What's the correct way to give that feedback? What would you recommend? How would you recommend giving that feedback?

SPEAKER_03 21:08

Again, I think it's very individually considered. Depends where that person's at. Um and that that's as you say, like that's the beauty of leadership. It's a very emotional journey and individualistic in nature in terms of really giving consideration to where that if that person's got stuff going on, um, you probably want to tackle it in a particular way that's gonna meet them where they're at and and what they what's going on. As a blanket rule, transparently. Um ultimately, again, it's gonna impact your brand, it's gonna impact your client's experience, and that person deserves to know. They deserve to know the impact of their performance or the impact of um of the service that they're providing on their clients. Like they don't, generally speaking, we think the best in people. They don't want to come to work and do a bad job. Totally. So just let them know. It's just the way that you do it needs to be considered in terms of what's going to get the best out of them. How are they going to hear this feedback? Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 22:08

Do you know we had a client this morning? I'm going to bring this in because I this is something I've definitely learned from Tessa's leadership. We had a client this morning and she said, Can I can I have some feedback on the way that I've led my team member this morning? Like this is the feedback that I gave her. And she'd actually given her written feedback because they were working off, like she was working off side.

SPEAKER_02 22:25

Oh, I haven't read this yet, Nikki's. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:27

She'd given her team member written feedback and it was beautifully. This this um salon owner has often worries that she'll be very direct. I really liked her direct nature. But we're really trying to soften her leadership and and be more considered with her language. And she wrote the first thing that she wrote was like, I really, I really love your goal, but XYZ, and gave feedback. And I said, one thing that Tess has taught me is rather than using the word but, saying, I love that goal, let's make it more tangible by doing XYZ. So removing the word but because it can feel really disempowering. So even just looking at, and I'm listening to the when you're talking about that phrasing, I'm listening to the language that you're using constantly, because I think we can all learn so much from this from leadership. I feel like I'm learning so much in this podcast. Oh, I'm just loving it.

SPEAKER_02 23:13

Selfishly butt. This is just for me.

Excuses Vs Targets: Coaching Language

SPEAKER_00 23:16

Yeah, and I think like when you're saying that considered feedback of looking at, okay, does this, you know, how am I gonna deliver this feedback and how would I actually feel to be in my team member's shoes, receiving this feedback, especially if it's gonna come as a surprise to them, or if they've got that that compounding effect of the things that are going on in their lives. So being really considered with that. Uh, next question What should we do in a one-on-one if a team member makes excuses for underperforming? Langu language suggestions, please.

SPEAKER_03 23:46

Oh, great.

SPEAKER_00 23:47

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 23:48

Makes excuses for underperformance.

SPEAKER_00 23:52

Do you want me to give you like an example of it? Yeah, great. Yeah, go for it. Um, I didn't re-book my clients because they like to book online.

SPEAKER_02 23:58

They're shift workers, they didn't have their roster.

SPEAKER_03 24:01

Yeah, okay. So what impact would that have on sustainable business, low retention rate. Yeah, okay. Empty books. Empty books. Yeah, right, okay. Okay, so at the end of the service, I didn't because that they have a different preference. Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_02 24:15

So I would say that would be our number one, is that people or it will be, you know, oh, I haven't done any retail because everyone's already on amazing things, or um you know, the Adore Beauty.

SPEAKER_00 24:25

This is from one of our private clients. Yeah. This team member makes has uh will often say, uh my clients will book online, they don't like to rebook, but rebooking is a big touch point of ours.

SPEAKER_03 24:37

Yeah, right. Yeah. So the obviously the correction needs to be, well, what are our targets? What are we working towards? And do you align to those? Like do you buy in? What is it that's uncomfortable about curiosity again? Yeah, I it's it like it is it it is. It's just approaching things curiously because there's there's a lot that goes on under the surface, and I can imagine somebody that feeling uncomfortable if they're not sort of target oriented, perhaps. If you know, here and I watch and listen to you guys a lot. So I know Do you actually because yeah. I love it. Um, you know, how you measure on a monthly basis what your targets are for your team, and um you bring those numbers up, um, obviously not relentlessly that you're jamming them down people's throats, but it's like you know, we're here to perform, we're running a business kind of thing. So, which is totally fair. Um, so really understanding what is it if if we're here and and we're trying to get here as a business, and you're a really key contributor to that success, and we all want to celebrate that success together, what is it that's getting in between or getting in the way of you being able to contribute to that? What's feeling uncomfortable? Yes, what are the barriers?

SPEAKER_00 25:51

I we need to write that.

SPEAKER_02 25:53

Write down every phrase that's coming out of Taryn's mouth because that is so good. Just even with that.

SPEAKER_00 25:57

Like Do you know what's interesting? When you said that key, if you're a key contributor, if you've got a team of five, 20% of your business is riding on one person. Yeah, it's huge. Epiphany moment. I know. This is so good. Wow, I'm loving this. Terry, what is the difference? Well, I feel like we've covered that actually, with someone not being a culture fit. Um tap on for that as well. This is good advice for us because we have our Christmas party this weekend. Christmas party. Christmas party. We always do it in February because we want a pool and hot weather.

SPEAKER_01 26:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:29

Christmas party recommendations. We are all family, and I I do like to drink with my team. I do like to drink with my team, sorry. Um, I'd love to know their thoughts, as in your thoughts.

SPEAKER_03 26:41

What's the question?

SPEAKER_00 26:42

Um Christmas do you recommend salon owner. Like, I'm gonna review with this. Drinking. Do you what do you think about the idea of Christmas parties and drinking with your team as a salon owner?

Parties, Boundaries, And Leader Conduct

SPEAKER_02 26:53

Partying, not like a wine or two, like the bags. Like going hard. I'm joking, I'm joking. Like, don't put me in any of that. I'm talking like, you know, someone's doing keg stands, things like that.

SPEAKER_03 27:06

Like, yeah, that's a hard no for me.

SPEAKER_02 27:08

Hard no, that's not a hard no circumstances. No, no, no.

SPEAKER_03 27:12

I there's a there's a respectable limit where, you know, at as a leader, you've still uh and let me get a little bit more technical about the extension of the workplace as well. So whilst you're having Christmas party. Um while you're having your Christmas party on, it's a it's technically a work event. Yes. Because the purpose of it is connecting your workmates together. And naturally people form friendships and you know, really tight relationships, and that's what you want to be able to translate to get, you know, success in the workplace is really tight um cohesive relationships. And you know, we do these things to build relationships and break down those walls and barriers and things. Um, but as the leader, you're still responsible for you know conduct and behaviour, um, respect. If you're getting bestonkered with Bestonkered.

SPEAKER_02 28:06

No bestonkering this weekend, okay?

SPEAKER_03 28:09

Um then you kind of you kind of lose the ability. Yeah, you lose the ability to stay objective. Totally. Um and just just monitor how the dynamic is playing out a little bit, and then you just become sort of part of the problem. Yeah. Um so just keep a limit on it. Like you can't I think it's a worse thing to not do anything at all, and then you just like you know totally robotics just.

SPEAKER_00 28:31

You know, Tess and I always like at the at the Christmas party, we always say, okay, it's time for us to go to bed. Or if we've got an event, we'll say, uh, well, this is where our night ends, here. Yep. And then we'll go to bed. And as much as I was obviously taking the bus before about um about drugs, this is a problem in our industry. Yeah, in the hair industry, it's very normalized to do go out and party with your team, do drugs with your team is normalized. Not not now, not as a I've done it as a no as and and we actually have a really candid conversation every Christmas party that we have. We have a conversation around, guys. We don't expect that this is going to happen, but we just want to bring in what the standard is absolutely no drugs. You know, this is still a work event, respect, blah, blah, blah. We have that conversation at the start of the Christmas party because we go away together for two nights. So I think the room for that boundary to be pushed is open. And as you say, we're liable for anything that happens at that weekend.

SPEAKER_03 29:25

So I'll be so interested for your listeners to step back and have a think about and reflect on some of their past experiences and just connect some any issues that are going on within your business at the moment and some of those experiences and how some of those are. Where are those lines being blurred? Yeah, yeah, 100%.

Mediating Passive Aggression

SPEAKER_00 29:45

We've just got a flashback to when we made Megan do a shoey, like that was many years ago. Very different leaders, but we did um that was reflective of what was happening in our business. Yeah. Um, okay. If a team member team members being passive to each other, team growing resentment, what is your best advice? Good one.

SPEAKER_03 30:10

Probably a similar approach to the gossip. Yeah. Um the gossip and sniggering kind of conversation we had. Um, there's obviously some relationship challenges there, but lack of understanding, respect, cohesiveness, clicking. Um it's I I would I would probably start with a individual conversation to say, hey, this is what I'm noticing. But help me understand what's going on. It's as simple as it needs to be. Would you bring the two in together if they're resenting each other? Oh, I don't know that how well that would go. You'd probably get donuts. Like if they're not if they're not communicating with each other on their own terms, trying to bring in an in on in an Sorry, let me start that again. Trying to bring in an authority to make them communicate. I don't I can't imagine that that would go well.

SPEAKER_00 31:04

So what what would you you'd have the conversation with one and you'd say, okay, I can hear that you're frustrated with so-and-so because they run behind or whatever the situation. I'm just trying to think of like what would happen to someone, don't clean up after yourself, whatever it is. And then I have the conversation and you know, Jessica says this about Diane and Diane says this about Jessica. What do you how do you resolve that without getting the two parties in the same room?

SPEAKER_03 31:26

Yeah, you could that's probably the next step. If you didn't see improvement after your one-on-one conversations, it's essentially a mediated conversation to sit down and say, hey, this is my role is to help the two of you get along, help the two of you resolve your challenges or frustrations, um, and being really clear about what that role is. I'm not here to make decisions on your behalf, I'm not here to make you change your behavior, I'm here to help the two of you see each other's sides. Um and then you try and oftentimes with mediation, you need probably two or three conversations with each side before you get the two together. And then that's the role that you would need to play.

SPEAKER_00 32:02

Huge. I'm even noticing your language have helped me understand, and my role here is to help you. I love that. My role is to it's almost like when we talk about intention. Yeah. My intention for this meeting is yes. Yeah, yeah. My role here is too.

SPEAKER_02 32:17

I hear so much of like the way that you lead is like consciously but also compassionately, like getting curious and like yeah, it's almost like a say less and listen more sort of approach. Yeah, love that.

Psychosocial Safety And Practical HR

SPEAKER_00 32:30

All right. Last question, Terry. I want to know. I'm just gonna go a little bit off track. What do you think if you could speak to the salon owners of Australia, hearing all of these things that our industry does? And I feel like so uh let me give you actually some context. Our um work cover premium as an industry has risen by I can't even tell you, I actually got the stat the other day, I think 17%. Yeah, so dramatic rise in the last three years for mental health claims. So it's common in our industry to struggle to have great leadership and normalize safe culture, I'd say. Normalise safe culture. And we've definitely had awful culture in our salon before, and we've had great culture. What do you think is the one piece of advice that you could give to salon owners to help them with their HR and their people management?

SPEAKER_03 33:27

Um, probably just the first thing I want to say about to your salon community and particularly the owners that listen to your podcast is I am in such awe of your courage to start businesses and to run them like the two of you and you know, the girls that were here and have been on your podcasts previously. Oh you know, just and I remember when you went out when you both went out on your own um and started your business. And I think we're I was coming to you in Armadale, yeah. Armadale, that's right. And then it was like, yeah, I work I'm and I lived in like the northern. So I travelled like a fucking good friend an hour and 20 minutes or something like an hour, it would have been like three hours. Wild turn trips. Um but then that that's also what the things that you do to support your friends. But so yeah, I just wanted to say that to I bloody love you. You know, for someone that has worked in corporate all my life, um the courage that it takes to show up every to make that decision in the first instance, because you're so passionate about what you do and you know that you want to make a difference in the industry um and and sort of differentiate differentiate yourself and provide a different experience um to you know to however many percent of people that get their hair done and have the treatments. Um so that's that. Um Thank you. I love the HR the HR advice in terms of I hear you, like and and the from a premium perspective, work cover premium perspective and um the prevalence of mental health um challenges in life and then naturally translate into the workplace is absolutely there and only getting worse. It's it's r and then the services or the lack thereof um and access to services to actually help people is really challenging as well. So to internalize that into your own business and say, what can I do to make this easier for people again? It's it's a comp it's a compassion lens, I guess. Is there's a there's a reality of the world and how people live and the challenges that people go through. So you've got to take your role as a business owner and as and as a leader really seriously to say, how do I create the conditions within my workplace that are going to support somebody that's going through something really challenging? And so this is gonna sound really technical and boring, but the late last year, the um WorkSafe brought in a whole bunch of new regulations around psychosocial safety. Um, and it sounded at the time like it was gonna be really complicated and scary, but it's actually not. Um and so it does sound like daunting already. Yeah, it does. But then once you actually go through um the website and really understand there's I think a list of maybe 14 risks of essentially psychosocial or psychological hazards in the workplace, it's it would actually be a really interesting practice for you as a business owner to go through those and go, okay, so This will be me tonight, just um, and just do a little self-diagnostic or even do it with your team to say, Yeah, you know, if we were to rate these high, medium, and low of from a risk perspective in our business, um, what would we say? And or what would I say, or what would we say? And then that really helps you to understand where your where's it where your hazards are or where your hotspots are in terms of what could exacerbate psychological claims, health claims or or exacerbate mental health challenges in your workplace. Um and it's all around, yeah, effective leadership, culture, communication, um, effectiveness of change. Like if you're introducing a new booking system or a POS system or you're changing your whole product range, like sometimes that can stress people out. So, how do you um make sure that you're navigating through change in your workplace consciously and well um to make sure that you're bringing people along on the journey? And um others are um, you know, even physical safety, which is which is true for your industry as well. So um, yeah, that that would actually be a really interesting sort of diagnostic exercise to go through.

SPEAKER_02 37:41

Another nugget. I love that. Wow, honestly, this has been like it's been one of my favourite programs. I've learned so much.

SPEAKER_03 37:48

I know you said it was supposed to be rapid fire, but I talk a lot.

SPEAKER_00 37:50

Oh, that was thank god you do, because honestly, I think actually things are. I think because HR, and you know, this is the thing, HR is such a how long is a piece of string? Like there's so many different layers to how a question can be answered. Yeah, but I think you gave so much context, and I think you're gonna help a lot of people. I've learned so much listening to you today. So thank you, our beautiful girlfriend, Taryn. Thank you for being here, backing it up from the Australian Open. Thank you so much. We appreciate you. You're amazing, guys. Thank you so much for listening to another episode of the Conscious Salon podcast.

SPEAKER_02 38:19

Oh, what a gift. Thank you. I love you. That was fucking amazing. Love you guys, stay conscious.