This is why your team isn't performing

If you’ve ever promoted your best stylist into a team leader role and then wondered why nothing really changed, we get it. Leadership in a salon doesn’t fail because people don’t care. It fails when we give someone a title but no structure, no decision rights, and no time to lead. So they hesitate, they double-check everything, and you end up carrying the load anyway.

We sit down with Tae and Nikki to talk about what actually works: getting painfully clear on responsibilities, building trust, and making “time off the floor” non-negotiable so a salon manager can think, plan, coach, and problem-solve. We also unpack the real-world shift that happens when a leader has permission to make calls, move clients when needed, and speak up early when they’re overwhelmed, instead of pushing through until everything cracks.

One of the biggest takeaways is the safe feedback loop. We share how direct, respectful feedback (including a retreat exercise that puts truth on the table fast) helps owners and leaders make better decisions together, even when they don’t fully agree. If you’re a salon owner, clinic owner, team leader, or manager trying to build a calm, accountable, high-performing team, this one will hit home.

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Transcript

Welcome And What Changed Today

SPEAKER_04 0:00

Welcome back to the Contra Salon. Whoa, love doing Tommy from her. Welcome back to the Contra Salon, everyone. Thanks very much. Where two from here? Yeah, forgot. So um welcome back, Nikki. Great to be here. Thank you. Anything you'd like to share with the audience today?

SPEAKER_03 0:18

No. Um, but we would like to talk about. So we actually were just we had something else planned, and then we just said to Tay, what's the thing? Because Tay's been doing some one-on-one sessions. Come in, Tay, and talk us through what happened.

SPEAKER_00 0:29

Um so I'm doing um more one-on-one sessions with the team leaders of our one-on-one private clients. Um, and it's been absolutely incredible. It's been really good to be able to have this space and debrief with them and really meet them at where they're at um and give them tangible things on how to move through things that they're finding challenging and also give them advice of things that have really worked for me. Um, so yeah, we're just chatting about what they need at the moment. And I think really like big thing that has been coming up a lot over the last

Role Clarity Creates Initiative

SPEAKER_00 0:58

um couple of months of me doing this is getting really clear around your your role. I say your goals. Um, around your role and what your responsibilities are. Because I think a lot of team want to be able to help you, they want to be able to support you as much as they possibly can. But there's also sometimes that little bit of a barrier of like not wanting to overstep, not wanting to make the wrong decision. So the more ownership they have over their roles and what, you know, the process of it and understanding exactly in the entirety of what it is and what they need to do, the more they're going to take initiative and be able to do those things. But I feel like there's a big block around that because they're wanting to do it, but they also don't want to make the wrong decision.

SPEAKER_03 1:34

Huge. This is like I'm I always say this is an epidemic. It's another epidemic, guys. So we're it's an epidemic in our industry of people tend to put a salon manager in place or a team leader in place. They'll give someone a title. Usually it's the person who's got the fullest column. It's usually the person who's fullest column, knows the business the best or has been there for the longest. And they put someone into this role and there's fuck all structure, and there's no outline of the standard or the expectation, and a clear job description for that person as well. You experienced that the first time we put you into leadership, and we've talked about that openly on the podcast. So the first time for anyone who's like it's their first day on planet Earth, okay. First time you listen to our podcast. Um, Tay has been working with us for did we say seven or eight years? I think it's nine.

SPEAKER_00 2:24

Because I was talking with a client the other day. I mean, obviously it was nine, but then I was gone for two. So seven.

SPEAKER_03 2:29

Yes. But no, no, no, no, it's not. It's 2018.

SPEAKER_00 2:33

2018? What are we now? 2019.

SPEAKER_03 2:35

2021 to two, no judgment of the counting of the hands.

SPEAKER_00 2:38

I can't even do it. I'm just smiling.

SPEAKER_03 2:40

I'm like, six. It's been ten years. It's been lovely because for your anniversary last week it was eight. Yeah. So I think with that in mind, it's wait, how old are you?

unknown 2:50

No.

SPEAKER_03 2:50

29.

SPEAKER_04 2:51

No, it's eight, it's eight, because you were 21. Yeah. When you started.

SPEAKER_03 2:55

I agree, it's eight. It's eight. I'm not arguing. No, it's eight. I said eight. It's eight. I said eight first, actually. Yeah. But eight years. Yes. And then you had a brief little interval in the middle. Yes. But in that eight years, we put you into leadership before you moved to Queens Iron. And when we put you into leadership, we gave you the job of being team leader. We liked you the best. We knew that you were the right person for the role, but we didn't give you structure and we didn't outline clear expectations. You did a phenomenal job of it. I imagine it would have been an absolute shit show because of the lack of direction that you had. And it was so we uh micromanaged and overshadowed you so much and didn't empower you to make decisions on your own. And on the flip side of that, now when you came back from Queensland and went back into leadership, we were so clear on what the expectations were and we were so clear on what the job role was. So I want to talk about, I want you to give the perspective of how it was when you had fuck all structure and no understanding. And even talking about things like time off the floor, because a lot of salon owners are expecting their team leader to do all of these things and to be this amazing, shiny character while they're working 38 hours on clients. Yeah. So give us your perspective.

SPEAKER_00 4:16

Yeah, so I didn't really have any time off the floor when I first went into um leadership.

Leading While Fully Booked

SPEAKER_00 4:22

Um, yeah, I think it was just, I mean, I'd never been in a leadership role. So I also didn't really know what to expect. But I think going into it, it was just, yeah, always that second guessing of like, I wanted to take the initiative to be like, okay, we need we're doing ordering today, I'm just gonna do it. But then I also had that um internal battle where I'm like, I don't want to make the cookie mistake again. Everyone to find out what that is on Instagram if you're not following follow along. But doing that or, you know, going over budget or you know, doing the wrong process or whatever it might be. But I wanted that ownership and I wanted to be able to prove to you guys that I can do it. I don't need, you know, to be asking you a million things, but also at the same time, I didn't really have that permission to just go ahead and do that. Um, and yeah, I think if you've got a team leader in place, you need to give them the best opportunity. So that includes taking them time off the floor because they're not going to be able to do their job to their best ability. They're not going to be able to motivate the team, they're not gonna be able to look after clients 100%, they're not gonna be able to be on top of everything because they are when they're with the clients, they're gonna be thinking about what's going on with the team, how are they going, you know, everything to do with that. And then when they're doing all that sort of stuff, they're thinking about their clients and how they probably weren't looking after them 100% and missing the mark a little bit because they're not 100% present. Whereas if you want them to do really, really well at the role and fully take it on, you need to take them off the floor so they have time to think, to innovate, to create, to be inspiring and motivating and like really be in tune with the business and what it needs.

SPEAKER_04 5:51

I think it's just something that we um really like worked out pretty quickly. Because even when you did come back and we said to you like we need a leader, you actually said no. Which I didn't blame you for. Cause I was like, and I think one of the first things I was like, we've we've learned, we've we've changed, we've evolved, we've grown, we've done all the things. But you did originally you said no, because you were like, Oh, I just want to chill for a bit and I just wanna like I just want to like find my feet before I like take that back on. And I think one of the biggest things that Nick and I have really seen especially in this, you know, uh new way, I think as you have longer time in the game, you kind of like start recognising, you know, things you would do differently. And um, this goes for like everyone in your evolution of a of your career. You will look back on previous versions of yourselves or previous things that you've done and be like, oh, I do that differently, X, Y, and Z. One of the biggest things that we say is that if you want to grow your business, you need to work on your business and not in it. And I feel that this is also something that salon owners and clinic owners need to start seeing in terms of who is leading their team. Because if you want your team leaders to lead, they need to have an opportunity to have that time to be able to work on their leadership. They're going to need to get clear on how what their role looks like. Like what are they actually in charge of? What is their responsibility? What are the things that you're wanting to hand over? And actually handing over the reins, not you know, I'm gonna give you this title and this pay increase and this, you know, beautiful new thing. But um you pretty much can do the same thing, but you'll just take sick leave if that's you know what that that's that that's not giving them really any role or responsibility or growth with that. And people that want to work on or like be team leaders or um step into management, they're wanting to further their career, they're not wanting to stay where they are, they're wanting to grow, they're wanting to like look for more of that. So if you have people that are having those moments, it's not just giving them a title and keeping them in the same spot, it's changing their role, handing things over, sharing that responsibility, creating a a dynamic. And I feel one of the biggest things that we get so much on with feedback, and this is part of you know, Tay Meet. If you are in our world, you will come across Taya sooner rather than later. Okay. She's very much an integral part of what we do at the Conscious Salon. Excuse me. She's an integral part of what we do at the Conscious Salon. And the first thing that people say, I want a Taya. I'm looking for a Tayre. And what Nick and I always say is, you potentially have it. It's just that you are not giving them that opportunity yet, which I feel like this is such a huge thing. Nick, when we think about our experience with this, the lessons that we've learned with our first time of doing leadership with Taya, which was more like what we spoke about, giving someone a pay rise and a job title but not giving them the opportunity. What would you say is one of the biggest things that you've learned looking back at where you either struggle to hand over control or like what would you say would be the biggest piece of advice for the people that might be like, oh, this sounds like me?

SPEAKER_03 9:06

You know what I think the most defining moment to get more out of your role for

Building A Safe Feedback Loop

SPEAKER_03 9:12

you and for us was creating a really safe feedback loop of being able to give each other feedback and asking for feedback and also giving feedback for both of us, like for all three of us to be able to do that comfortably. And you give us feedback often. Like I was talking to someone the other day when I came to you recently. What was the thing? We did do that as an exercise. Anyone that has did we talk, have we talked about on the potty? That's actually a really good point. I'm gonna talk through what we did there. So we we facilitated a um a retreat for our private clients. We take our private clients away twice a year um for retreats, and we were up in the sunny coast doing a leadership retreat. And we asked, so we sent all of our private clients' team leaders, so all the salon owners' team leaders out a questionnaire beforehand. And it basically said, we want you to be super honest here. Let us know where the leadership's going strong, let us know where the leadership is weaker, what are you confused about? What do you find difficult, what's challenging, what needs improvement, what's great. And essentially we got the rawest, most honest feedback, and then we sat the salon owner down and we gave them that feedback in that moment. And to make everyone feel more comfortable, we actually said, we're gonna show you behind like under the rug of our salon. Tess is gonna sit up there and then Tay's gonna go up and she's actually gonna give her feedback to Tess directly in front of every client that we have. And you were scared. Yeah, terrified. It was it was a really cool activity that was.

SPEAKER_04 10:39

It wasn't sorry, that's how you bring it. But I I mean I'm I'm kind of a bit of a um a sadist like that. I'm like, gross mate, go for it.

SPEAKER_03 10:46

But it was really interesting to see the dynamic and and giving you that permission to say, you know, it's important for these guys to see that we have problems in our salon as well, and we have things that need addressing. And it was really important for them to see how you give feedback to Tess and how Tess takes and absorbs that feedback, how you guys come to a solution together, and vice versa for you giving Tay feedback.

SPEAKER_00 11:08

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 11:08

I reckon the say the strongest thing that we've done is creating that safe feedback loop and for you to you you said to me recently, I was telling someone about this, um, it was like some idea that I had, and you were like, I could tell that you hated it, and I was like, I had this idea or whatever. And then you were like, No. You just said no, no. And and I was like, Oh, okay, is it the shit? And you were like, I understand where you're coming from, but that's not a good idea. And then you're like, how about this for an idea that was really good? And I was like, Yes, that's that was really good. Five years ago, you wouldn't have said no to me. Absolutely. You would have been like, yes, thank you. Um, and being able to have that safe feedback loop, you know, a couple of what was it last week? Last week you came in and you said, I'm fucking overwhelmed, I'm chasing my tail, I can't catch my breath or something like that. And immediately we came in and said, Okay, cool. How are we gonna solve this? Do you need more time off the floor? What do we need to do to actually take action here? Yeah, let's pull you off the floor as many hours as we can grab this week. Let's move clients over, let's do, and here you are in the podcast studio unexpectedly today, but let's let's pull some stuff where we have it. But because we have that safe feedback loop and we've created that over time, that's my biggest piece of advice. 100%.

SPEAKER_04 12:17

Love that. So, so good. So good. What about you? I think for me, the biggest one is truly being if you're handing the first time around, I feel like I handed things over, but like I was like right next to you the whole time and like like the um the mere cat. I was constantly like, what are you doing? No, do that. Like the next, yep, that's it. Like, really, like you know, the ho the helicopter parent. Now with Tay, one of the biggest things that we say is like, I trust your judgment, I trust you, I trust you, because I do. And I I also will say, and and whether or not it's because I'm off the floor now and out of the salon, and um, you know, I'm I'm in the salon from a place of overflow. I'm in there for like a handful of hours a week. And like, you know, that that that can be generous. Like this week I haven't been in there at all. But what Tay and I constantly have is really solid communication. If it's not daily, it's a couple of times a week. Like it's it's all it would be every other day if it's not daily. And it is the small thing. So if I know that she's overwhelmed, saying to her, You have per I know the phrasing with her, you have permission to move clients, to adjust things, to take time where you need it. I know like because I know that you've got it. Letting her know I trust her and I've got it. All of these like phrases and things, what this does is start building trust. And what my role is, rather than watch her whether or not she makes the right choice that I see, by the way, not not necessarily that it's right, the right, the thing that I think is the right choice is completely irrelevant. Like truly it's irrelevant. What has happened this time around, and since we've gotten so much better at this, is rather than me needing to watch, I know that she's got it because she is in there seeing things at a completely different. And we literally had this conversation the other day. Yeah, I gave Taya very direct feedback of concerns that I was having around some something that was happening in the salon. And I preface this by saying, This is what I see. I'm also aware that I'm not in there seeing it the same way you do. So we may differ on this, but I want you to understand this is my view on it. And you received that, took it, understood, but you also said, What I see is X, Y, and Z. And this has gotten to such a fine art now where we can share where we are, even if we don't necessarily agree, but we both have that understanding of like, yep, cool, I can see where you're coming from, you can see where I am. We're gonna watch it and manage it together and see how that goes. I think the biggest mistake that I see selling clinic owners doing is giving people titles and then not giving them the opportunity. So they sit there and they are constantly like waiting for that opportunity to be like able to step in and to take over and to lead. And like that's the biggest thing that I see is that people will constantly overstep. And it's okay because even sometimes we'll get a bit blurry in meetings and stuff. If you overstep, that's okay. Acknowledge it though. Like I've said that so many times in front of the team. Sorry, Date, if you're doing this, I'm I'm just doing this instead. Really like handing it over and allowing them to step forward. Get out of the fucking way. Totally.

SPEAKER_03 15:21

Tay, what about you? I want you to give a piece of advice to can you give a piece of advice to salon owners who are doing this currently and then also to team members who may feel blurry about their role.

SPEAKER_00 15:32

Of course. I think if you're a team leader and you're burger around your role, you need to sit down and have a conversation with your salon owner. Like it needs to be really clear on where you're confused, where what you want as well. Like shoot your shot and be like, I know that the ordering isn't mine, but I really want to take ownership of ship of it. Is it something that you can train me in so that I can get up there and like be able to take full con like full responsibility for it? But I think just get like having that raw, honest conversation around where you're at, where you're struggling. Because I think also when you're going into these roles, you're now a team leader, like you're a manager or whatever you want to call yourself. But there's this extra pressure of like, well, I definitely feel it of like, I need to be perfect, I need to be on my ball, and you know, I need to be this, that, and the other. But your salon owner is that person that you can talk to that who is going to understand what you're going through, that is going to be able to sympathize with you and also give you advice on things that they've gone through and how they've overcome it or handled a situation or anything like that. So whenever I'm wobbly, I will always contact the girls and be like, hi, like hi. Um, hey, like this is a situation going on. This is what I think, but what do you guys think? So it's definitely getting me thinking in a problem-solving mindset and how I would solve things and try to take my initiative. But sometimes you just need that, okay, like, yep, that is the right thing, or let's workshop this a little bit. And then you'll get to a point where you'll have to do that less and less. But really, like collaboratively work with your salon owner on what your role is, what their role is, and be able to take full responsibility from that as well. So I would definitely get clearer around have that meeting. Like, don't be scared, don't put it off because it's not gonna get any better.

SPEAKER_04 17:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:11

The moment you have that meeting, you're gonna be so clear and really be able to take on things and keep pushing forward into your role. I love that.

SPEAKER_04 17:18

Yeah, you know, I think this is a really good analogy, and I found this like really helpful when we started stepping into this because I'm I'm

Letting Go Of Control

SPEAKER_04 17:24

a control freak by nature. Like, I love I'm bossy and I'm I'm controlling and I love I'm very rigid.

SPEAKER_03 17:30

I'm like, you know, every business owner listening right now is nodding. It's like 100%.

SPEAKER_04 17:35

But with this, everyone has like a little around them, right? There's like some form, whether it's like a niece, nephew, child, something, there will be a small person around you that you will like see going to do brave things. And it is so important that we don't get in the way and stop them. And what I feel is so, and this is something I really, really like learnt from doing this with Sully. The fears that I have. So my fear is heights. I don't fuck with heights. I'm like not like, no, I'm not going in a hot air balloon or on a ropes course. Like you've literally watched my fear play out as well. Like, and it's not something that I haven't like, you know, people are like, oh, you just bungee jump. No, it doesn't work like that. Like I've put myself in the position, it it hasn't, I haven't mastered it. It's my one flaw. But with this, when he goes to the playground and he wants to play, or when River now is learning to stand up, my own son who is standing up and starting to tumble and have all of these things. I can't jump in and stop Solly from going on the playground because of my fear. And I learned that when we moved, and he wanted to play on the big kids' playground. And it's high, it's taller than me, and it's was scary. And he was watching the big kids go, and he was only about three or four. And he had the confidence and trust and like belief in himself that he could do what they were doing. And if I stopped him and said, No, you can't do that, double, you just go and play on that that swing over that's the baby swing and go and hang out over there. He was so sure of himself. I was like, Cool, I can't let my fear be the thing that stops him from this moment. And this is what I want you to start seeing can happen if you continue to take this opportunity from your like managers, team leaders, team, anyone around you when you are stopping, putting your thing of like, I know this can be better, or I know that this is gonna work faster, or I know he's gonna be safe over there. And what I really had to do in that moment was let Soli go up. I was underneath him, I was right underneath him, I was ready to catch him if he fell. Absolutely, I was there, and that's you can be safe, you can be there to catch them if they fall. But I did not let my fear override his confidence that he had it and he could do it, and he he was ready for it. And it was just that thing of saying, You got it? And he would say, Yeah, I've got it. And we just kept and he kept stepping forward, just kept stepping forward. And when he got to the top, oh my god, he was so proud of himself. He was so proud of himself, and I was really proud. So, cool, I haven't put my shit on him where he's gonna stop, and he's gonna play small now and have that fear play out forever. And I think this is one of the big it really changed the way that I do leadership because even if it is wrong, even if I can see a different path or a different way forward, that doesn't matter. I need to give the opportunity to someone else because the worst thing will learn something.

SPEAKER_00 20:26

Huge. Amazing. So think about that. Okay. I just had a quick little thing to add to that. If you're putting someone in a leadership position as well, and you don't trust them and you're not giving them opportunity and you're not respecting them and their role, how do you expect your team to then respect their role as well? Exactly. Like that is just you're creating a disconnect. You're they're always gonna then keep coming to you. And the whole point of putting someone in that role is to obviously make the business better, but to take pressure off you. Yeah. Whereas if you're putting someone there, but then your team is still like having no trust in them and coming to you, then you're just causing yourself more problems. So the more that you can empower, and this is like the biggest credit to you guys, like you empower me every single day, but you do, you pump up my boots, you make me feel like I, you know, people say, Yeah, I want to tay. And you know, that is all incredible to hear, but like I'm not this magical unicorn. I have two incredible women behind me or next to me to pump me up and to support me through these. And it doesn't matter, like it doesn't mean that you they're all on their own now. You do it all together, but you have really clear boundaries and really clear responsibilities on where you all fit. So thank you guys. Love you guys.

SPEAKER_04 21:30

Love to listen also, and you are a you do that unicorn, by the way. But you also do that for us. Like the three of us will hype each other up all the time. We're all there, like we are literally each other's hype girls. That's why this works so fucking well. I think this is gonna be really amazing for people to hear because I think what we see so much in this situation is either Salon Clinic owners putting people into leadership and then bitching about the fact that like they're not doing, you know, X, Y, and Z. Well, yeah, they don't know why. You're constantly there stopping them. And I feel like for team leaders, it's like I don't know what I'm doing. There's so much confusion and there's so much control. Take it out. Get really clear on it. And you know what, Nikki? We have got the structure of this. We've got a container. The conscious structure.

SPEAKER_03 22:13

That's what we're talking about. The conscious leader. The conscious leader. Okay. Well, I sorry,

The Conscious Leader Course Plug

SPEAKER_03 22:17

I thought you meant like a job descriptions. That's all in the conscious structure. But the conscious leader. Great course. Created course. I went through it the other day and I was like, this is a great course. You did it when you went. Incredible. Yeah. I actually went through it when she went into leadership. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 22:29

The conscious leader, for those of you that are like, I don't know what this looks like. I don't know how to like like this is all well and good. What do you mean, like hand over control and step up more?

SPEAKER_03 22:38

Conscious leader. It's a great course. We get messages about that like weekly. It's a great course. But it's designed for salon owner and their team leader to do. It'll give you all of the structure that you need. It gives you what the team member, like exactly what the role looks like. Yeah. The boundaries, the relationship that you need to uphold, all of the tasks that a team leader does. It also trains them on leadership skills so that they can motivate their teams. It's a great course. It's bloody great course.

SPEAKER_00 23:04

If you're someone who has commented or said to the girls, I want to tay, you need to go and do that course. Because that is how you're going to create your own.

SPEAKER_03 23:11

Exactly. That's called the Tay course. Guys, thank you so much for sharing your wisdom. Thank you. We're an amazing tripod, but this is great. It's going to help so many salon owners. Thank you guys so much for listening to another episode of the Conscious Salon podcast. Love you guys. Stay tuned. Thank you. Snuck in.