The leadership lessons that built multiple award-winning salons | Maria Unali

What does it really take to build a salon that thrives without relying on you every single day?

In this episode, Nic and Tess sit down with award-winning salon owner Maria Unali to explore the leadership journey behind building multiple successful salons, creating an incredible team culture, and learning how to step back without sacrificing growth.

Maria shares the lessons she's learned over decades in the industry, from taking over her father's salon, navigating motherhood while growing a business, embracing conscious leadership, and using AI to streamline operations and create more freedom.

This is an honest conversation about leadership, resilience, personal growth, and building a business that supports the life you want to live.

 In this episode, you'll learn:
💼 How Maria built multiple award-winning salons and a thriving salon culture
🌱 Why conscious leadership transformed the way she leads her team
🤝 The importance of hiring for values and building long-term team alignment
👩‍👧 How motherhood changed her approach to leadership and business
💬 Why the conversations you avoid today become the problems you face tomorrow
🚀 How to create a salon that can grow without relying on you every day
🤖 How AI is helping salon owners save time, create systems, and lead more effectively

Whether you're growing your first salon or leading a large team, Maria's story is packed with practical leadership lessons and mindset shifts that will leave you thinking differently about what it means to build a successful business.


To follow Maria's journey:
https://www.instagram.com/maria_unali/ 

To follow our journey:
Instagram @aheadhair_
@the_conscious_salon

Transcript

Welcome And Introducing Maria

SPEAKER_02 0:52

This episode of the Conscious Allen Podcast is brought to you by CPR Hare.

SPEAKER_03 0:57

Welcome back to the Conscious Allen Podcast. Tess, we are interstate today.

SPEAKER_02 1:01

New location.

SPEAKER_03 1:02

New location, and we have a very special guest here with us. So today we are joined by someone who has spent decades in our industry. But what makes her story incredible is not just the years that she's put in, but it's the evolution that she's had. You are someone that I have watched very closely for a long time, and I've been so inspired by your leadership journey. She started as a hairdresser in Western Sydney, and like so many women in the industry, didn't necessarily set out to become a leader. She's the founder of Salon Kin, Salon MooMu, and Salon MooMu, two of the most prestigious salons in New South Wales. She's the two-time AHFA New South Wales Hairdresser of the Year, 2014 and 2017. Fuck yeah, so cool. And she also nabbed the Hair Expo Salon Design Award and had a stint on the Australian fame team. Somehow, between all of this, she's also raising her two children, building salons, becoming an AI expert, growing teams, winning major industry awards, and backing herself again and again. She knows what it is firsthand to build an incredible business and salon culture from the ground up and to take vision and really turn it into something huge in our industry. To grow a team really quickly and to hold a huge amount of responsibility and keep showing up through the stretch that leadership demands. She's built beautiful spaces, led high-performing teams, and created businesses that have earned both industry respect and huge success, transforming people's lives through hair. Please welcome to the podcast. Maria Unali.

SPEAKER_01 2:40

Standing over when someone reads it out like that. I said I wasn't going to cry.

SPEAKER_02 2:55

It's pretty fucking phenomenal, isn't it, to hear that back? Thank you guys. That is really nice. Yeah. Well, I mean, that's that's your achievements. I think it is something as women that we do where we don't really actually have that moment of like, fuck, I have done quite a bit and I've I've actually achieved a lot. And hearing that, it's a huge amount of achievement.

SPEAKER_01 3:12

Yeah, well, we just sort of get on with it, don't we? We're just like always looking for looking forward. Yeah, always looking forward. And you know, like we've also got so many people relying on us, so we don't have time to sort of sit back and uh absorb or just um take it all in, or yeah, I think, but thank you so much. It's pretty incredible, isn't it?

SPEAKER_03 3:31

What you've done in your career. And I think for our industry, like what you've done for your team members and your clients and your community within all of the salons that you've grown and turned into these amazing, like what do you call them? Almost like these uh what's the word? Like a cults. But you turn them into these huge spaces that they're gonna be able to do. They're like worlds of their own. Yeah, it's it's not these worlds.

SPEAKER_02 4:00

It's almost like yeah, they become like these little embodiments of their own branding and community. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 4:06

It's pretty fucking and I think that while you've been so incredible and expanding in that way within your community in the salon, from an outsider within our industry, you've been such a source of inspiration for so many people along the way in an industry to rewrite the way that we do leadership, to rewrite the way that we run a salon, and even seeing the way that you're moving into having AI support you in business has been really, really cool as well. Which we're so excited to have you here.

SPEAKER_04 4:33

Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 4:33

So, Maria, I want to go back to the start, and I would love you to tell your story about how you got into the industry and how you actually built these empires.

SPEAKER_01 4:43

So, um I didn't want to do hairdressing. Um and um my mum was pushing me into it because my dad had the salon. So my dad he opened a salon in 1981. He immigrated from Italy and when he was 16, so um it was huge for him to have built that. And uh I was helping him out, you know, I was just like doing the little tea and tidy thing. Um, and then I actually got the mics. When I finished E12, I actually got the mics to go to uni, and I was just like, you know what? I was sort of like um up in the area about things, but I was also having this moment where I was like following friends as well. Um, I don't think I had a really strong sense of self back then, and um, I was sort of trying all the things. I would be that kid that sort of jumped from like um friends group to friends group. It's changed a lot now, but it's been a

From Uni To Fast-Tracked Apprenticeship

SPEAKER_01 5:32

journey. But um at that time, I sort of, you know, one of my friends she went to um she went to uni, she did ACU, and I was like, you know what, I'm gonna go to ACU as well. Did a Bachelor of Arts and did like philosophy, English literature and um whoa, yeah, and like economics and Italian Japanese. Like I just sort of dipped my tonality. I did everything. That's exactly what I would have in there. Oh no, no, I just like I did one year and I was just like, I I should have known then that I was like like definitely ADHD traits. Like I was like, I don't like this at all. Like I'm like stopping starting anyway. I was just like, stop this. Yeah, and then um my mum was happy I decided to start hairdressing. Um, and we fast tracked my apprenticeship, and by that time, um my dad was sort of like um in the middle of renovating the salon and sort of rebranding. He's like, Well, do you want it? And I was like, Yeah, okay. So like I um took over the salon. What was it called?

SPEAKER_03 6:31

What was it?

SPEAKER_01 6:32

It was called S81 Hair, and it was like this idea like since 1981.

SPEAKER_02 6:36

Wait, yeah, I was gonna say, because he you said he built it in 1981. Okay. So then how you did your apprenticeship fast tracking, how fast did you do it? Uh look, I mean, back then it was a four-year apprenticeship.

SPEAKER_01 6:46

Yes. So I did it in three years. Yeah. Um, which is normal now, but like back then. Maria did it this quick for all. Yeah, just because like I was like, I just want to get this done, you know, like it was this thing, I just wanted to hurry up. And I said to my dad, if I'm gonna do this, I want to do it really well. Um, creatively, I was really like um just honed in on like I wanted to do fashion weeks and editorial, and I just wanted to like go gung ho on everything. Um, I because I wanted to experience it. I'd been exposed to it. Like I'd been going to hair exposed since I was like six or seven, you know, like wild. Yeah, so I'd seen that whole world, and I it's not that I didn't fall in love with it, it's just that I um thought I was just gonna do something different. We always want to do something different from our parents, you know, like we just want to go like the opposite way, especially like 14, 15.

SPEAKER_02 7:35

Actually, the full embodiment of that. Our parents are teachers, and I dropped out new pants. I was like, I'm literally gonna do so far opposite that I'm gonna leave school.

SPEAKER_01 7:43

Yeah, and that's what happens. Like you just go and you just want to go like left, so far left. Yeah, and so I went to uni, and I was like the first, like I I think, you know, first person in my family to sort of do that, you know? That's and then I was like, nope, not for me.

SPEAKER_03 7:56

You're like spent five minutes at uni, and then what happened?

SPEAKER_01 7:59

Yeah, and then I was obviously went through my apprenticeship and then you did that under your dad? Yeah, how was that? Yeah, it was good. You know, I think good yeah, it's no I think it was good. It was also better that way because like I felt like I had more to prove. People were just like, you know, oh she's the boss's daughter, you know, like and I couldn't be lazy. I had to, you know, like I had to just pick up and like you know, um, yeah, basically prove myself to the rest of the team. Yeah, to the rest of the team and just go, like, I I'm I'm just as much able to be here as everyone else. Absolutely, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 8:30

Um sort of big team like at South.

SPEAKER_01 8:33

Yeah, it was probably like um not you know, yeah, there was probably about six or seven seniors, you know, in like a um space of like maybe ten chairs, you know. Wow, yeah. Yeah, so that's it. Um and it was pumping back then, you know, like it was and I'm not embarrassed to say, like it was probably like you know, a little bit of a chop shop, like it was very quick. Like I learned on my book was like half an hour haircuts, you know. Like it was it was, and that's how I learned. My dad was just my dad's a barber by trade. So um, you know, he would just like I remember the first time I had to be on the floor. He was just like, Okay, there you go, there's a haircut waiting for you. And I'd picked up scissors, I'd gone to tape, but like it wasn't like I hadn't I know I knew how to cut hair. I just watched him for a long time. Yeah, and yeah, there was some bad haircut that were also charging like back before it was like uh now it's you know like I just learned on clippers, it was like clipper work, yeah. You know, we're also charging like sixteen dollars fifty, you know, like post-GST, you know, like it was like $15 plus the dollar fifty. It was like, you know, so they're all like this is unbelievable. Yeah, and I think that's how I sort of started to understand maybe it's just best sometimes just to throw people in.

SPEAKER_04 9:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:47

Um, and I didn't know it then, but like it served me very well. Yeah, I learned really quickly, like um, and I I I didn't have time to just like just go, oh I don't, I don't want to do that, or it was just like you have to do it or else, you know. So like fashion weeks were really fun for me. I was just like, I loved quick. Um, and then yeah, and I just got stuck into that. And so like hair expos were just really fun for me. Like um, and then um, yeah, I just I and then he obviously the renovation happened, so he's just like, Do you want to take over? And at the time I got married, and um, and I, you know, both me and my husband took it over. And um, and we're just like, Yeah, let's do it. And but I wanted to do the big thing, I wanted to go to London, I wanted to do hair there. Like I just, you know, but life got in the way, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 10:36

So did you did you change the name straight away when you took over? Did you change things? What did you think?

SPEAKER_01 10:42

Yeah, so it was originally St. Clair hairstylists, and then it went to S81 Hair when I took over. Yeah, and then when we moved to Penrith, which was about 15 minutes further west, um, I changed it to Salon Kin and I wanted to rebrand. It was just like it was a new like space for me, it was a new feeling. Um, and we're moving to a new area, it was a huge space. We went from like maybe 110 squares to 200. Wow, um and yeah, and just building it was just like so fun. I just loved it so much. Um, but I had so many people helping me along the way, so that uh meant a lot. And I had a really strong core team, you know. Like I had um people who'd been with me for such a long time, and um they really built it with me and they built the culture. I never really felt like I needed like a handbook. Everyone sort of understood where what they needed to do and and how they needed to act, and how we treat people, how we moved in the salon. Um, so that was a big lesson for me because I was just like, you just need to hire people that are aligned to you and everywhere, not that everything will sort itself out, but it will definitely, you're not like um going against the grain. Yeah, you know, it's one less thing.

SPEAKER_02 11:53

Yeah, exactly. I I it's a big thing that we really I think niche down a few years ago because I I feel that's the thing so often that people will not be clear on alignment, whether it's clients, whether it's um team, whether it's just even people that are surrounding them. And so often when you have that like get really clear on what is aligned or what alignment looks like for you, you start creating that, like that's when you start creating your little hubs, your little communities, your little spaces where it does become where you know how to like treat each other, how you like all the conflict and like struggle. I wouldn't say it goes completely, but it definitely steps right back.

SPEAKER_01 12:31

Well, there's a mutual understanding, yeah. You know, and I think that's what's that can be what's so special about a team, you know. Like uh, you know, you can definitely have uh moments of friction and like you know, feedback and all of that. Um but I think there's uh something special in people just understanding each other and that everyone has the a good intention, you know, going in, whether it is like you know, giving that feedback or like you know, high pressure, high tension in that environment. Um yeah, I I think um that core team really sort of set the standard moving forward and I'm so grateful for them. It's incredible.

SPEAKER_03 13:06

Yeah, unbelievable. So Maria, talk us through when how Kin grew and then when you decided to open up other locations.

SPEAKER_01 13:15

Um, I didn't think I was ever gonna open up other salons. We didn't think you were gonna be a hairdresser as well.

SPEAKER_02 13:21

A few surprises along the way.

SPEAKER_01 13:22

Well, I thought, yeah, I thought um if and if I was, I always said I would open up with someone else, you know. Um just because I needed that support. I had just had Andre, um, and he was about two when I opened up Kin. So, and then a year later I fell pregnant with Clara. Um, so I think I was just like, I know I can't, I'm not I'm realistic. I can't um do it all, uh especially at the same time, you know. Um so yeah, I thought, oh, you know what, I'll just like and I said it out loud to someone that someone approached me and we um end up post-COVID sort of or in COVID, really. Um I use some money from subsidies and rebates through COVID to open up a

Rebranding To Salon Kin

SPEAKER_01 14:07

second location. And um I think you know, we definitely overcapitalized and we made it this incredible space. And I think like I don't know, over the years, like even though I love building spaces, I love building brands, I don't think that's why people come to you. I think it's a great marketing, um, like it fast forwards marketing, like it fast forwards people reaching you and seeing you, and has this wow factor, and people want to be a part of it and see it and go there. But what I've learned, especially even just like building Studio Mumu, is that it's very humble, it's very grounded. It's in this really old building, and um, and you know, I did what I could, you know, I repainted and I just put some you know cute furniture in there, and it's got a beautiful balcony, and it's not like it's not like my other spaces, but because it's grown so much and I've been able to build community, people come for you. They come for the person behind the chair, they become for the energy. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 15:07

It's it's that's really interesting. Just what came to mind for me when you were saying that was initially people may come for that vibe that they can see, and that that that thing that gets them through the door of that bright, shiny object of this looks beautiful, but they stay because of that relationship that you build and the way that you make them feel more than anything in the chair. So that's yeah, that's incredible. So you now live an hour and a half away from Salon Kin. And how many do you have on team? Can we talk about I want to talk about the philosophy at Salon Kin because I think it's just been so pivotal for our industry for people who especially for you being a millennial hairdresser as well. We were definitely um, you know, treated a certain way and had a certain expectation and standard in the industry 20 years ago that is so different to the leadership qualities that most salon owners or a lot of salon owners have today and the different culture standard that we set in our industry now. Can you talk through a little bit about about Kin's philosophy and the way that you actually lead a team?

SPEAKER_01 16:04

Yeah, like I mean it was definitely a journey. Like my um the way my dad led is different to obviously the how I led and how I lead now. Um, but I remember like it was probably a couple of years in from like being at Kin, and I went to go see my physio for something, and he was talking about this Simon Sinek book, Start With Why. And I just started getting so obsessed with like that space of like you know, whether it was like personal development or whatever, and I started to really um understand. This is amazing.

SPEAKER_03 16:40

He is so you mentioned Leaders Eat Last, one of my favourite books ever, yeah. Ever, ever, ever. So I just think, yeah, he's incredible. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:48

So then he he, you know, did the start with why leaders eat last. And then I was just like so into this, like just different way of leading, this emotional, you know, this EQ, like just having that understanding. And I just wanted to start a conversation

Leading With Why And EQ

SPEAKER_01 17:02

around that sort of leadership because I saw it work really well in my space. I've definitely had moments where I have lost my way, you know, and maybe to try something different because uh maybe I took things too personally, and um I just thought, and I think it was definitely around the time when I opened up that second salon, and there's so much stress on me, and um, not that that's a a cop-out at all. I take full accountability, and you know, it's the hard conversations I've had, but I think that there is this level of like um, yeah, like I I just I think around um you know the way we uh lead our teams is so important in terms of performance.

SPEAKER_02 17:49

It's so interesting, just even hearing you like you know, the fact that this came in, it was used to you chiropractor where you got introduced. How in like these are the moments I think that get skipped over so much where you can have this like fleeting moment that is like a nothing thing. You can mention something, it can hit with someone who wants to have a different, do better, do have that connection, and how much can then have that repli like that that moment has changed the trajectory of everything.

SPEAKER_03 18:20

Everything.

SPEAKER_02 18:21

Which I think these are like those sliding door moments where it's like this one like minuscule moment that can change everything, how you then move, not only as like a um salon owner, how you move as a human being, how you move as a mother, how you move as a daughter, how you move as a friend. How it just has such a flow-on and ripple effect.

SPEAKER_01 18:39

I I think it helps the ADHD traits of like that excessive compulsive. Like I got so obsessed with like learning about it. Same thing when I become a mum, like I you could not give me any more parenting books, like and yeah, and it wasn't like I just didn't think it was that. Um I'm quite intuitive, like I I listen to my gut a lot, but it was just like this thing I want to be really good at, you know. Like, and I don't know if that's this maybe it's the middle child thing. I think it's like it's like I'm acting like I'm the eldest and I have NHD.

SPEAKER_02 19:11

I'm like, it's both. But I think it is that it's like that hyperfixation of like I want to be the best and I want to do and I want to have impact. And thank fuck you do. Like, honestly, yeah, there are so many people that don't. So this is where you can see, like when I think about and listen to, and like you know, reading through, like when we were talking off air about like when we were reading through everything last night, yeah, I can hear that you're a person that wants to leave this industry, like even this world better than how you found it.

SPEAKER_01 19:42

Yeah, I think that's definitely something that like um I think about, you know, and it's not like this ego like legacy thing. It's just like even you know, someone said to me um I had someone leave my business a really long time ago, and um she go and and she went to go open up her own salon, but it was just like a you know one person chair, whatever she was and uh um she said to me, she goes, Isn't that amazing that she left your business and she has the confidence and she's brave enough to open up her own and and and be that for herself. And it really made me say like think about it. I was just like, I need to reframe this. Like this is like I uh it's just a different perspective that I hadn't seen before. And gosh, that like that hit so hard because then every time now that someone leaves and they have the courage to leave, I think it takes courage to leave a business, you know. Um and I think I I always think it's like it's more for them than it is for me. Um, and if I've done my bit, they have the courage to go out and they had to to do well in you know the um you know the field, whatever they decide to work in, but like I've given them I've done my bit. Yeah, you've been a part of that courage.

SPEAKER_03 20:56

And and it's really interesting because most millennial hairdressers didn't have that. We had no one modelling this, we didn't have someone to look at and go, this is this is the way with conscious leadership, or this is the way that we can support team members, like it just wasn't that way. Yeah, we certainly weren't modeled it. Um and I think it's really it's really cool to see people doing it now and more people actually taking that on board. I'm curious to know now that you live an hour and a half away from the salon, I want to know how it operates without you. We also live an hour and a half and a half away from our salon, and we're not in our salon. But I'm always curious to know how you made that happen and how what what the challenges are that you face day to day by being far from the salon.

SPEAKER_01 21:38

Look, the challenges are I miss my team. I love the buzz of a salon, like love it so much. Um the things that work are I have found really good people, really good people in the right roles. They and I've just let them do what they need to do. Like, I don't micromanage, I'm always there to like assist and guide. I just know what I'm good at, which is like the vision and you know, guidance, coaching, you know, and reminding them of that constantly. Um, and the voice, you know, like this is how we speak, this is how we move, um, and setting the standard as well, right? Um, but with with that, I've got an incredible coordinator, Briley. She has been with me eight years, and I think that's what makes a huge difference as well.

SPEAKER_04 22:25

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 22:26

This idea of like someone being in your business for such a long time, knowing you, you know, and that's like a long game thing. That's not like a you know, if someone's saying, Oh, how do I get that? It's just like it's really hard to get, but you just need to nurture people, you need to play the long game, you need to invest in your team. Um, and you need to set a standard, you know. Like I heard uh something ages ago about expectation and standard, and if you replace expectation with standard, um it's it's It feels a lot different. Um, and so that's what we speak about now in the business. It's like this is our standard, this is the benchmark, this is what we reach up to. Um, and I've got also a um a team and education leader in Sarah. She actually doubles, she's a tape teacher, so I'm very, very I know I'm very lucky. Um, so she guides guides all our apprentices and she makes sure they're on track, and um, you know, she helps them. So I've got a really strong senior team um and they guide the apprentices, so there's always someone for like there's always someone for someone to look up to um that uh know exactly what they need to do and what the standard is, and the standard I keep as well. I mean, we hold regular meetings, you know, we do all the things, um, we

Making The Salon Run Without You

SPEAKER_01 23:37

have lots of conversations. We also get along, and I think that's what's really important too.

SPEAKER_02 23:42

How often do you get to go into the salon?

SPEAKER_01 23:44

Um, I'm in there twice a week. Twice a week. So I go in on a Wednesday. Um salon trades from like Tuesday to Saturday. I go in on a Wednesday. Um actually I do clients from 12 to 8, um, and that's my only day that I do clients. And then I sleep at my mum's because it's closer, and then I do another day on Thursday, just like admin, check-ins, one-to-ones, I float around. I, you know, sometimes can um just refine work with apprentices and stuff. Um, that's a fun day for me. That's yeah, also that sounds like a real that's like a heartfelt day.

SPEAKER_02 24:14

Yeah. Let me ask when you for like took over from your dad, and you I imagine, like, not just with changing the name and the location and things like that, how did he respond to when you were shifting things and doing things differently? Yeah, so he was like, Yeah, cool, yeah. Whatever you want to do. Yeah, it's all good.

SPEAKER_01 24:33

Yeah, he actually um, you know, stepped away and then he started to help my brothers where they just opened up a pizza shop around the corner from the salon. So and then the pizza chef. So like it was just one of those things my dad was just like, you know, I'm just gonna go over there and help them, you know. And he loved it, you know, like and I think he just wanted to keep busy. He still does, he still helps one of my brothers out, you know, a lot. So yeah, it's cute. But yeah, I think he was, I think he really missed it though. Like he missed the cutting, he missed the talking, like connection, yeah. It's a big part of what we do, yeah. He really he had people walking past all the time, hey Vince, hey Vince, you know, and he just loved it so much. So I think that's what he missed the most. But he was fine. He was like, Yeah, whatever.

SPEAKER_02 25:13

That's so cool. So he didn't like um you know that thing of like with parenting sometimes, and like I think I'm so conscious of like not trying to put this onto my little spit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That thing of like, just do it this way, like just don't so you never experienced that.

SPEAKER_01 25:25

I think like the financial side, because I wasn't really strong in that. Like uh, I think like running the business on the back end and the economics of it all, like I think he definitely was just like, Oh Maria, you're spending too much money. Like that. He would come with me to a couple of accountant meetings and stuff like that, you know. Like, I think that's where his strength lied. Um, and I think that's where um I I listened to him. But when it came to like branding or like customer experience and stuff like that, I mean he he had that like foundation, right? Like he had that I'm you know, his uh the way he treated his clients, the connection he built, the the loyalty, all of that. He had all of that, but um, it was quite unconscious. It was just very like this is the way he was.

SPEAKER_02 26:12

It wasn't like a yeah, yeah, yeah. That's amazing. Is it I love that? I think that that's a really interesting story, but also handover because I feel like that side of it, it's not really that thing of like, do you want this? He go, blah blah blah, and then like I'm gonna step back.

SPEAKER_01 26:28

You know what? My dad was always like that. Yeah, like he was just like, you want to do that, yeah. It's from SAY at the picture shop now. Yeah, no, he was always like that. He was just like, You want to do that, you can do that. And I remember this, like, and my mum was the complete opposite. You know, she was a bad cop, he was a good cop. And um, so I remember like out of you know, when I was in year 12, I was like, I want to do a year overseas. I always it was always this thing to travel. I just wanted to get out, you know, like but just see the world, connect with people, like you know, um, and I just said up well, I want to do a year 13 over overseas, I want to just do student exchange. Yeah, it's like yeah, we should, yeah, you should do it. I think he knew my mum was gonna say no. It's like we went into the city, we went to the meeting and everything, and he got I was so excited. All the pamphlets all the pamphlets by the way, don't have a mum. And then my mum's like, You're not going anywhere. Give me this pamphlet.

SPEAKER_02 27:23

You're going to uni. Yeah, exactly. Wow. Okay, this is so cool.

SPEAKER_03 27:28

Maria, I want to ask you about being a mum because you've got two little kids and you had two kids under two, is that right?

SPEAKER_01 27:37

Um, in Andre I just turned three, so they're three is three days apart.

SPEAKER_03 27:40

Wow, yeah. So, well, two kids under three. My maths is not my strong point, obviously, but two two little kids and running a big business with a big team is huge and it's a huge responsibility, and so many hats that we juggle as women in general. Tell me about how that's been for you in terms of challenging times, things that work really well for your family and things that are really hard.

SPEAKER_01 28:06

Um, I've got really good support, you know. I've I learned really quickly to lean on my village because my um at the time my husband left his job, Andre was born, and then I lost a senior um uh like within a couple of weeks of Andre being born. So I had to go back to work five weeks later.

SPEAKER_04 28:26

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 28:26

And um, yeah, so it was a very like it was stressful, it was very blurry for me. Like, you know, when you look back on stuff and you're just like, I don't know how I got through that. And that's not very helpful, but like it's just one foot in front of the other, you know. Like I was breastfeeding at the time, so like, yeah, and you just do the thing, you know, like you just my mum was looking after so uh just for context, um S81 Hair was a in a shopping center, so we're trading seven days. So that senior was the filler. She was doing Sundays, she was doing Wednesdays and Mondays. She was just doing the days that weren't that busy, but we needed people on the floor, and so um, yeah, it was just one of those things. I was like, okay, I have to do this, you know. And um, my husband at the time said that um, you know, oh don't worry, I'll I'll look after Andre. Um, I'll we'll do what we can, um, which was incredible. Um, I just don't think sometimes um I don't want to have any um bad feedback from this, but it I I think it's you speak fairly, everyone will come to me anyway. I'll protect you, I'll say that I've said no. I just think it's like it's hard, yeah. It's it's hard, but like it's it's a mother, like there's something about like a mother

Motherhood Alongside Business Pressure

SPEAKER_01 29:40

doing those first couple of years, you know, like absolutely and I I hate to say that, but like they're like you know, um I think it is different though because like these humans grow inside us, like Nick and I always talk about it is different, like we they are literally growing their bones inside our body, like it is a different feeling, and it's not shady on dads or people that aren't birthing them, but it is something to it with the fact that when you have that moment and and you're looking at your child, and and especially in those early few weeks, we're really starting to get to know their routine and their pattern, and you know how they like it it's such a it's such a common the most common word that people say on the deathbed.

SPEAKER_03 30:24

I'm gonna cry saying this. I told you I cry in every episode is mum, mum. It's the most common.

SPEAKER_01 30:29

Yeah, I I read that just recently. That that made me just like I lost it. Um, and I think people thought it's yeah, I did.

SPEAKER_03 30:39

It's like even that, everyone asked me fundamentally is this level of comfort. I totally understand what you're saying. Yeah, look, my my boyfriend was a stay-at-home dad. I went back to work six days after having my son. But it's I I I also see and understand what you're saying when you say that like that motherly feeling of just like my baby needs me.

SPEAKER_01 31:00

I think like would I change it? It's hard. I was I was making decisions very quickly. Um if we didn't, if I didn't step up and and keep working, uh my business wouldn't the the the shopping centre would have penalized me. We had to open those days and someone had to be there. Um and I it's just a a responsibility that I decided to take on when I when I decided to open my business, you know. I think that's the thing, right? Like when you decide to open a business, or even though it was sort of like, you know, um was given to me and I I inherited, it was just like this accountability and this responsibility that I was just like, this is what I have to do. Um, you know, it goes back to that Simon Sinek Leaders Egg last, like you know, you just have to like you just need to be the person that goes first. Yes, you know, like um to protect everyone. So um, and I took that very seriously. Um, but you know, like um, you know, he did the best he could with what he had. Um, and uh, you know, and you start to see it later on, like especially now with Andre, like I see it, and where I just and I think that awareness is beautiful in terms of like his resilience and all of that. And I and and now we know better, we do better, right? Yeah, um, and it but it was completely different with Clara, you know. Um, I had Clara, had eight months off, um, did a the odd wedding here and there, and I can tell you now when I stepped away from my business, it soared. Like I just let my team do what they needed to do. The systems were in place, um, had good people in there, and it just took off. Um, and I think that there's moments like that in team and culture where they either step up or step out, and um they just and and they did, and it was incredible to see. And at that point, I was like, okay, I can do this. Oh, good.

SPEAKER_02 32:50

Was there any part of you when you were going to have Clara where you were like, I hope this doesn't happen again?

SPEAKER_01 32:56

Um, I think I had a bigger team, I had way more structure um and also flexibility. Like, we weren't working on the colour. I was at Kin, right? So, like we were only trading five days, I think, at the time. Like it was like a Tuesday to Saturday. Um, so in terms of like swapping the team around, and in that first couple of years, I went from like five to fifteen employees. Wow, it was huge growth, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:23

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 33:24

Um, so and I think what allowed me to do that is the people around. Like I had to support my mum was helping me, John, my husband, was helping me at the time. So um I think, yeah, if there's anything I can say to people, don't just ask for help. It's just so important.

SPEAKER_02 33:41

If you had your time again, do you think you would do with that whole situation and especially with being away from your baby sooner than what you wanted?

SPEAKER_01 33:53

But it's hard to say because I wouldn't, I don't think I would be here like like this and have this story to tell, which is not why that happened. I think it was that little bit of adversity that really like pushed pushed me further. And maybe that's like a bit um selfish to say, but I also think it gives me the lesson to also share with my children, you know, like my kids, is that a little bit of struggle is okay, you know, but then I can always have that conversation. I'm always having that conversation with Andre now, just to and now that he's a little bit older, he understands, you know, like so. Um I think I'm always drilling into, and this is what leadership has taught me, it's taught me uh how to be a better mother, and vice versa, you know. Um, whether it's like the emotional part or whether it's just like building resilience. Um there's so many parallels, and I'm sure you guys know in motherhood and leadership.

SPEAKER_02 34:47

Yeah, absolutely. And I think this is something, even with that, like a little bit of adversity is good. Like, I think lean into the challenge and something we like really and like on the other side of the challenge comes the growth. So having that moment and that, but it can I think like two things can be true at once. You can have that thing of like, had that not have happened, I wouldn't have made the changes, I wouldn't have the business, I wouldn't have, and yes, yeah. But there is also that other part of like that can also be shit that I didn't get to be with my little when I really wanted to. Totally, yeah. Which I feel like we can often have that thing of, and I and I guess that's probably become your fuel. That that struggle, that challenge, that um leaning into that, it became your fuel of like, cool, well, we're gonna change things and we're gonna move and we're gonna do all of these things.

SPEAKER_01 35:31

Well, I think having Clara and having that different experience was quite healing. Yeah, you know, like it was like a little bit of redemption or something, you know, like um, and I learned. I was just like, I can do this differently, you know. Um, yes, sure, my business was set up differently. Um, but it was also this idea of like, um, I don't need to go through that and be the martyr either, you know, like I can just let people do what they need to do. I can structure my business. And could I have done that with Andre? Sure. Like maybe, maybe I just like um, you know, if we want to go really deep, I think there was this level of um me being really scared to raise a child that I was like, going to work is so much easier.

SPEAKER_02 36:13

That's interesting.

SPEAKER_01 36:14

Like that almost becomes safe. A hundred percent. And you know, like I think it's so hard. Being a mother is so hard. Like, and I used to say I used to joke with my clients, uh-huh, coming to work is so much easier than staying home and being a mum. Like, it was a bit of a joke, but I think there was so much truth in that for me. Like, even though, like I said before, I'm quite intuitive, I don't think being a mum was super instinctive for me. Like, I don't think I was just I just I don't think I loved it that much. Like, I there was not much return on investment, you know, being a mum. Like um it was it was really hard, yes, especially you know, the breastfeeding thing, it's just taking so much from you when I had just had a career that gave me so much, it fueled me. And I know motherhood is not like that, but I it just it felt so different for me. Yeah, is it different now? 100%. Yeah, oh my god, like with my children now, like and um you know, if we want to talk about return on investment, like it's like this thing, like that you go, I need to do this really well because I I'm not that you're responsible for the people that they become, but like you really want them to show up in the world for to for them to have just a really great life.

SPEAKER_02 37:33

It's true though, because I mean there is this a level of responsibility, you know. You think about like when people like you know fuck up, or they're like, you know, there's a murderer or something like that, and they're like, oh what's the mother working? Let's get the mum, let's get the dad, let's you know what I mean? Like it it's you don't want it to go to that extreme, but there is that level of I see you in that, that responsibility of like shit, like this person, I just want them to be kind, or I just want them to be good, or I just want them to be you want them to feel all the feelings, yeah, and you want them to be fulfilled too, you know, like you want them to have a full life.

SPEAKER_01 38:04

Um, and I think that's what you know for my kids, like you know, people say I just want them to be happy. It's just like actually I want them to be sad too, because they don't know happiness if they don't know sadness. Exactly. You know, so like I try and you know, you guys know like feelings are fulfilling, you know. So you teach them all the things, you know, and I think um, you know, for me back then it was hard to communicate that to my kids, right? Because they're so little, but now I have a way better like um chat with them. My daughter is hilarious, like I just want to be her when I grow up. Um so and and she and I think um, you know, they like chalk and cheese for good reason.

SPEAKER_02 38:45

Like it's for you know I so appreciate you bringing that in, especially with that thing of like they feel like there is so much pressure, and you know, Nick and I talk about this a lot with the fact that you know there's such an expectation about like being pregnant, being a mum, being all of these things that it's gonna, you know, you're gonna love being pregnant, and you're gonna love, and don't you ever like say otherwise. I see you so much in that, like especially in the early days. I was like, who the fuck am I? Like, I'm not working on clients anymore. That loss of identity, and also that thing of yeah, yeah, I see, I totally get what you're saying. With like, I'm not getting a lot back from this. Like, it's really like they're asleep, they're crying, or they need a nappy chair, and she's like, Well, they're shitting. It's not, they're not saying I love you, or they're not kissing you, or they're not engaged with you. Yeah, and especially those, yeah, it can be really lonely.

SPEAKER_01 39:37

Especially when you've just gone through this whole, like, you know, you do you do really, I know this is a really bad comparison, but you do really good hair, and someone's like, oh my god, that's so unfortunate. Thank you so much. Constant validation.

SPEAKER_02 39:49

Like, I'm doing good, I'm doing good, I'm doing good. And then I look at the baby and I'm like, hello. Hello. Someone told me someone clap.

SPEAKER_03 39:58

It really is. I think you just spoke to so many women listening. So many because there were there are so many women that feel that guilt of, you know, especially being in the hair industry, that that feeling of just I'm surrounded by this incredible vibe and culture, and then they're pulled out of the salon and they're at home, and it something just doesn't feel quite right. And it doesn't mean that it's not, you know, as you say, you've had two completely different seasons of motherhood, and I think that's really interesting the polarity. And I believe that what happens in in round one, you know, you use and you utilize and you become different as a mummy in a different season because of those things, and and as Tess said, that becomes your fuel. You said something before recording that I noted down, I just thought this was so fucking incredible, and I saw so much of my own experience in motherhood in this. You said that motherhood has made you less rattled at work, and that two-year-olds prepare you for adult conflict in ways nothing else could. Yeah. And I just thought that was so true, excuse me, of leadership in general. But just that as a mum, it it almost regulates you around different levels of leadership and the things that made you sweat before motherhood versus the things that make you sweat now are really different. Maria, I would love to share something that you shared with us before recording with your permission. Um, it was just something that was so incredible to encapsulate leadership. And I also think this will be really powerful for team members listening to this conversation as well. You said there was a day, there was a day, a situation that I had been avoiding that finally erupted. I'd been managing around it for too long, letting things slide, not rocking the boat, abandoning myself in the moments that I'm gonna cry again, that I should have stood my ground. I was scared of how I'd look. So I stayed quiet, and every time I stayed quiet, I taught the people around me how I was prepared to be treated. You said that day taught me what I now bang on about. The conversation that you don't have on day one is the conversation that you can't have on day 300. I got through it the way that I get through most of them now, but going back to the framework by getting curious about my own part in it, and by finally saying what I should have said much earlier. What comes up for you hearing that?

SPEAKER_01 42:27

Um, look, I've been a like a big people pleaser for a really long time, and I was definitely escaping the hard conversation all the time. And I think it's um I think it's really common in like leadership. It's just like I don't want to hurt their feelings. Um Yeah, I've been doing this a long time in in terms of like the the abandon the self-abandonment, and I think um motherhood almost like um uh like emphasizes it

The Conversation You Delay Costs More]

SPEAKER_01 42:58

as well when you lose your yourself in it all. Um and it's just like this constant sacrifice. But um look when I someone said to me a long time ago, like teach people how to treat you, and it really landed for me because I just I just thought I just need to say what what I need from people. I think that was the hard thing for me, you know, like I didn't want to need anything from people. I was like, you know, independent woman, you know, like I didn't want to like have to ask people for help or do anything or want them to do anything for me. Um but I for me I um had to really get clear on how I wanted to lead my team, otherwise that would I was just gonna be a doormat. Um and I just I didn't want to be like that anymore. I didn't want to like um and it wasn't about like saying no to people all the time. Um it was just about getting really clear on what I wanted um from my team and um in my leadership and in my life, you know. Um it really overflowed for me. Wow because from that point onwards so much shifted for me. Um I think I um you know, I I think we can lie to ourselves a lot about certain things, and um I I think this is what led me to open up that second salon, you know. This friend approached me and I was just like, yeah, let's do it. And then that day 300 came and I was just like, holy moly, this is really hard, you know. Like, and I was just like, I shouldn't have just agreed just because, you know, um she asked me, and that's what I did.

SPEAKER_02 44:44

Play that back. Anyone that is resonating with that, play that back. I shouldn't have done that just because she asked me day 300. Yeah. Incredible.

SPEAKER_03 44:53

Wow. Maria, I want to pivot a little bit. So I am a slot for AI. Great to hear. It would be wrong of me not to bring this up because I think that you are just on the brink of being a huge disruptor in our industry in terms of bringing AI into the hands of cell owners and making it more accessible and making it easier for people to understand who may not naturally be tech focused and tech-minded. And I really want to sing this from the rooftop because I think there's so many cell owners listening right now who need your magic. And you have been creating amazing resources. I actually downloaded one. Oh, seriously. I was curious to see to see what you've been working on. And it's incredible. Can we talk a little bit about AI and what you'll bring to the industry?

SPEAKER_01 45:44

Oh look, I just got so obsessed. I love it so much. It gave me so much um efficiency, gave me so much time back. And I'd been putting off so many things. Um, and when I was able to tick those things off my to-do list, I was like, oh my god, this is like that running to-do list was epic. Like it was just I had things on there that I that had been on there for such a long time, and I was just able to like to knock them off just like that, just by setting up a certain way and not just using like Chat GPT for like a yeah as a Google search engine, you know. Like I really wanted to for it to work for me. And um I got together with a friend who was also playing with it. She's not in um hairdressing, not in the industry, but like she was just like, Why don't you try this? Why don't you try that? And I was like, Oh my god, people need to know. So and I just love it so much now. It helps me um really um uh it also brings my leadership team together. I I was able to build, um, you know, I know you guys use Trello, um, we I use Notion, uh, very similar, and I and it was able to build me out like my full Notion space, just like even things like an onboarding process. I built a mystery shopper program, like so. Yeah, and it everything was in the one

Using AI To Systemise The Salon

SPEAKER_01 47:07

space, and so my leadership team, like they go to that, you know, and they just go like this is what I you know, um, if you gotta find something, yeah, just go to the notion space, you know? Yes, and there's a running whip for us as well, and it gave me so much structure, you know, like it systemized everything, and uh for someone who can sometimes wing it and have things in different, you know, piles and go, oh, she'll be right. Um my god, like the the um streamlining for your business is insane.

SPEAKER_02 47:42

I think even just the like capacity that it opens up for like the freedom, then it being like all of these things that I've been like putting off for so long, or like you know, it's that never ending personality. Oh, yeah, I'll get to it. Exactly. Yeah, it's such I'm so grateful that you're like leaning into this and also sharing on this.

SPEAKER_01 47:57

Yeah, look, I want to do more, definitely. Like I had this like um you need to start like a school. Yeah, my friend says this all the time. I'm serious. We can do this, we can do that, and I'm like, okay, okay, okay. You should you know, and I've got a couple of things in the works I really want to um, you know, and it's just time, you know. Like, you know. I'm hearing you've got a bit more of it, uh put it all back in for sure.

SPEAKER_03 48:25

Yeah, yeah. Right, uh can you tell us what's next for you and what's coming up for school? The economy AI Academy.

SPEAKER_01 48:33

Um yeah, look, I'm bringing out actually, I'm working on uh an apprentice um handbook. Um it's got like little cheat sheets and stuff, like basic foundational information, but also like it's got um progress grids. So it's a bit like a book that will um give you um uh you really like a lot of clarity in the progress of your apprentice.

SPEAKER_02 48:58

This is so needed because I feel like so many apprentices are always that thing of like, I don't know how all this is going to come together and how I like where I should be, how it's going, blah blah blah blah blah. So actually them having this and being able to like track themselves.

SPEAKER_01 49:09

Yeah, well, it was sort of born out of like me not being at the salon as much, and I would always come into the space and just go, what are you up to? Like, what are you doing? What have you been signed off on? And sure, like so I would blindly just like you know, sign the TAFE papers. I'm like, Yep, you're confident, whatever, yeah. I was like, I'm not sure what I should say about. But you know, it's because I have a really strong education program, like internal. You've got the TAFE teacher. Exactly. Definitely, you're the good. We know that for certainty. Um, but it's just like this thing of like, you know, I need to know how many you've done. And so it there's all these progress grids to go, okay, cool, how many regrows have they done? How many half heads have they done? Have they, you know, can they um you know do a signature kin blow dry? Like um things like that. So I'm like, okay, how many have you done? Yep, cool. I can see that you've done four. Let's do the fifth one just on a dolly head and I can just see where you're up to. And if they do, it's it's normally about 10. If they do five and they nailed it, it's like, yeah, sign you off. And then we have a big progress grid out the back to see where the um apprentices actually live. Um and so that way my leadership team, so Brian's actually not a hairdresser, she's just been in the space for a long time. So she could actually just go and just go, okay, what are you up to? You can put a regrowth on. Yep, let me book that in for you. Wow. So it's very yeah, this needs to be. It's just very transparent, yeah, and super clear. So we need to we're pre-ordering. So we're yeah, I was a psych I was still working on it. It's with the editor at the moment, yeah. So I've done everything, we're just with the editor and we're just designing. That's so exciting.

SPEAKER_02 50:36

Okay, well, can we pre-order our first one in the first one? Incredible.

SPEAKER_01 50:39

That is so cool.

SPEAKER_03 50:40

Um, Maria, where can our listeners find you? Yes.

SPEAKER_01 50:43

So I think mainly on Instagram. I haven't done the TikTok thing, but maybe I need to get on that. Um, just Maria underscore unali. And um, it's called Unali because everyone there will be so many people that will take that differently.

SPEAKER_02 50:54

U-N-A-L-I. U-N-A-L-I.

SPEAKER_01 50:56

Yeah, I know you said it very well. UNALI. I can't I didn't say it in that second place.

SPEAKER_03 51:00

I was like, is it Anali? Yeah, Unali. But it has been such an unbelievable, an unbelievable privilege to have you in the studio today. Thanks so much to have you share your story. You are just someone who's been so inspiring for so many people in our industry, and we're so grateful for your time today. So thank you. Thank you so much for having me. It's been so fun. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 51:20

What an absolute gift. Thank you for being here. Can't wait for the AI Academy, the apprentice. You guys are making me very busy now.

SPEAKER_03 51:29

I love it. I love it. Uh September 1st. Oh, there's a deadline too. Thank you guys so much for listening to another episode of the Conscious Cell on Potty.

SPEAKER_02 51:37

Love you guys. Stay conscious.