Designer Boss
Designer Boss
Kelli Ponting on How to charge more for branding!
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0:04
Welcome to the designerboss podcast, listen, learn, love and level up with the ultimate success guide for web and graphic designers.
0:17
My name is Anna Dower. I'm a cake lover and success-slaying graphic design mentor. And I'm Emma Kate, your personal sensei for mastering the wonderful world of the Web.
0:30
Together, we'll show you how to harness our tried and tested experiences and hard-earned lessons while you soak up everything we know about building a successful design business.
0:47
Hi, everyone, welcome to the designerboss podcast. My name is Anna Dower, and today I would love to introduce you all to one of our major sponsors of the designer boss Summit. Today I am talking to Kelly Ponting. Kelly and her fab team of creatives have developed the brand discovery kit. It's a set of tools that lets any designer brand specialists or marketer lead a client through a practical and interactive workshop to identify and define their brand. Thanks for joining me today, Kelly, now that I've introduced you with your fancy bio, I would love for you to let our listeners know who you are, what you do and who you serve.
1:43
Yeah, awesome. So I am the managing director of a company that has a couple of different businesses within the marketing space. The main one or the oldest business, I guess, would be the marketing lab. So that's a full-service agency and we specialize in the franchise industry. So what makes us a little bit different there is we serve both big end of town, big corporates. But also we serve the Small Business franchisee. Some of our clients in that space, Telstra Aussie home loans, there's some big brands that we're working with there. But when I sort of said we've sort of support the franchisees, that's probably where our our passion lies, we're really, really big about enabling businesses of any size to have access to really good marketing. And we sort of say that small businesses in our DNA being a small business ourselves. So I have another agency called choose local that caters to local area marketing for non franchised businesses. And then I've got a couple of software tools that we've developed technology that assists things like 90 Day planning. And then the newest baby into the portfolio is our brand discovery kit, which is, yeah, what we're sponsoring with and promoting and launching to your fabulous listeners and attendees. Wow, it sounds like you're a busy lady.
3:06
Yeah, it's like, if you're born an entrepreneur, you just can't help the ideas. And then when someone actually asked you what you do, you're like, well, it's not that easy. I do this, he says he says, but yeah, I totally understand where you're coming from, with all the ideas and all the things happening together. But yes, I do. I do. I've gotten a bit wiser as I've gotten older. And my decisions now very much aligned to sort of the overall company vision, which kind of keeps me a little bit more on track. But yeah, I do like new new ventures and big ideas. Yeah, isn't that like, the biggest lesson to learn? It's certainly something I've learned probably in the last couple of years, is that not every idea has to become a business.
3:56
And just to pick and choose wisely, like, is this actually going to help me get to where I want to be? Or is it just like something I could do as a hobby? It's yeah, and sometimes it's difficult, a difficult decision. But when you get it right, you definitely see the results for sure. So how did you actually get to this point where you're like this marketing guru, creating all of these different products and things? Did you always know that this is what you wanted to go into? Or was it like a bit of a journey to find your way? No. And I think probably the entrepreneurial spirit in me was probably the most consistent thing in my career. So I actually ended up dropping out of a business degree with a marketing major in third year for the pursuit of a job that at the time seemed amazing and was paying better than what I was doing with my little casual retail gigs.And then I just sort of worked my way up predominantly in the IT sector more than anything, but I've always had I think I Have a good foundational business acumen. So the roles that I generally took, oversaw services or sales or marketing or partner services and that kind of stuff.
5:10
And then I wanted a bit of a career change. And I ended up with the role as general manager of an agency, a marketing agency, and I loved it. And I realized this is what I'd been trying to maybe find for a number of years. And everything about that, the pace, the fact that we were sort of on at the grassroots level with customers, it just sort of seemed to me and then couple of things happened. And I decided I would give it a go on my own. And so yeah, nearly four years ago, I launched the marketing lab.
5:43
Yeah, I've now got 15 staff, and we serve over 100 clients just in that marketing lab division. And then obviously, the other little businesses that have come through generally as a sort of an extension of something that we've developed within the marketing lab. That's awesome. I know, as someone that works with graphic design entrepreneurs, people working from home, trying to start a business, you know, in their bedroom, lounge room, wherever kitchen table, I know that marketing is like so daunting for them. And I don't . It becomes like a huge hurdle. I think like the more they think about it, the more freaked out they get. So I would love your perspective on something a graphic design entrepreneur could do today, in order to help with their marketing, that's not so overwhelming. Yeah, and probably there's lots of sort of tactical things that could be done. But I think the biggest thing, and again, it's a little bit like you're trying to decide, which is the business idea that you're going to follow, and which is really just a passion project or a side hustle. It's one of those things, you kind of got to find yourself and trust your intuition. But you don't need to be anything other than who you are. And I think the best business relationships that I come across, in fact, the success that I've had, where I've really sort of hit my stride has come when I've kind of acknowledged Well, who am I? What do I want my business to be? And what am I willing to contribute? So being authentic, which I know that's sort of a bit of a buzzword. But you know, when you're dealing with clients, when you're dealing with people, you're collaborating, as soon as you find someone who's genuine and authentic, you end up if you are aligned, you'll end up working better with that person. And I think that goes marketing and trying to find clients, if you are genuinely yourself, you're gonna resonate with clients who are aligned to that. And, yes, we all want to make $1. But we also want to enjoy what we're doing. So when you've got that alignment, I think the work is better, which means it's more joyful, which means you're in flow, which means that output is better. So I think it's, yeah, back yourself and be yourself is probably my one on one marketing tip.
8:00
Yeah, and I totally agree. And the kind of things that, you know, women in business, say back to me is, well, I'm boring, no one wants to hear about me. I don't want to put myself out there. And I know it can be daunting to begin with. But once you start being authentically you and just being the person you are, and putting it out there and people started responding kind of like it becomes fuel. And then you're like, I want more of that, you know? Yeah. And I always give advice, you know, when I'm talking to clients about what does marketing mean? And I always say you want to be the biggest fish in the smallest pond first find your niche, find what makes you you because if you're an introverted designer, and, you know, business development and things like that are a bit of a challenge. If your brand represents that you aren't necessarily big and bold, there's gonna be a client out there that doesn't actually want you know, the big personality of a me telling them how to or working with them and developing, you know, their logo or the brand concepts they might actually resonate, which means it's just a it's a better feel for everyone.
9:13
Yeah, totally. And being devil's advocate, another thing that I hear is all but I don't want to niche, I don't want to cut my audience down. And that's exactly what you said, be the big fish in the small pond. We've all been there. And we and you know what, in the early days, you know, if you need to pay your rent, or you know, you need to buy your groceries, sometimes we have to take on work that isn't necessarily our joyous our craft. But when you've got to a point where you can choose there's actually something really empowering about that and going actually, that client or that project isn't really aligned to me and I'm going to save the space for something that I think is better off that's going to come next.
9:56
Yeah, that's right. And like you said, if you need to pay the bills, that's fine. I think keep doing those jobs that are paying the bills. But in the meantime, start thinking about that dream design Empire, and start taking small steps towards it. Even though at the moment it feels like, Ah, I'll never get out of doing, you know, newspaper ads or whatever stuff you're doing just to pay the bills. But always have your eye on that big prize, because, you know, hopefully you get there in the end.
10:27
and I think as creatives you've, if, if you know, you don't have something that connects with your soul, or your passion, you know, creativity starts systemize. And we do this we take on projects or clients, sometimes the team will come and ask me if they've got a, you know, a not for profit project that they just want to do that isn't generally, you know, business as usual, but we'll give time and effort because it's actually, you know, it makes them feel good. It inspires them, it gets them thinking a bit bigger. So there's always scope. We can get off the the Instagram scroll or the YouTube hole and do something that fulfills our passion sometimes.
11:10
Yeah, that's right. And when you're like, I know, it sounds so corny. But when you're like living in your zone of genius, that's when you don't experience burnout. That's when you don't end up hating all your clients and dreading every email, you know, and that's where you get paid accordingly. Without having to work like a mofo.
11:33
Yeah, and it can happen, I think, you know, if I look when I started four years ago, building an agency, you know, I still, I hadn't some base skills, but it wasn't long before the business outgrew what my past experience was, so I was out of my comfort zone. And really, you know, yes, you do have to scramble to pay the bills in the first instance. But when you can actually get past that, and people sometimes think it's not possible, I'll just always be, you know, project by project. when you it can happen, and it's such a cool place to be where you feel inspired every day.
12:09
Yeah, I know, people will hate us for saying that. Because it doesn't feel like a job. But like, it's a choice. Like, you're gonna make the choice. Yeah. And make the decision that you're gonna move in that direction to your dream design empire. And it always starts with authenticity and choosing a niche, I think, though, too. Yeah. So let's talk about the brand discovery kit. Because this excites me as a designer having something actually tactile to touch and look through. And, you know, experience because most things are just like digital these days. So how did the idea come around for the brand discovery here?
12:53
Yeah, we were approached by aclient who wanted to commence a franchising journey, and they wanted some help with their branding. And I sort of alluded before, we're really, really pragmatic because we're used to serving small business clients. So even though we do great marketing in our agency, it really has to be what is the tactical beneficial output for our client. And this, this client came to us, and they wanted us to just roll out some assets for them to sort of share and promote the sale of the franchises. And then branding. They're actually an accounting firm. And their logo was, it was a red frog. So if you just take you don't even need to know, huge amount about, you know, branding, to know that finances, probably not the right color choice.
13:44
And still aggressive. Yeah. Even it was a frog.It’s still aggressive.
13:52
And its kinda child like. And they're also very left-brain people. There were two accountants. So how do you come in and sort of without insulting them and telling them that their brand really wasn't definitely wasn't ready for what they were hoping to do in their growth projections. And so I said, well, we need to sort of unpack your brand so that we can take them on the journey. And I went out looking and I couldn't find anything that did what I wanted it to do. So I knew the I knew the the Intel. I knew what was supposed to happen. I knew archetypes and knew all of that stuff. But I was like, How do I bring the client on this journey? And so it was when you talk about that, you know, sphere of genius. It literally was that we built this first year, it's in the space of about it was like under two working weeks, like really quick, facilitated notes, everything. It definitely wasn't quite as refined as the version we're launching. But we went into this half-day session. And by the end of it, I hadn't said anything about their current logo and both of them turned around to me and said, Well, we've got to change our logo because that Red's wrong. And that images is not correct.
15:00
yes, that's what you want. You want them to feel like it's their idea. And they got so much out of it. And it doesn't feel like particularly business owners and small business owners that don't understand the nuances of, you know, the science behind what is in branding. They just think it's pictures and things like that, we really started to see the value that they took for it. And we literally have not done we've done hundreds of these now. And every single time we've never had a bad client experience coming out of them.
15:34
And a girlfriend, who is a designer saw the kit, she had a discovery conversation with the client, and she recommended borrow it. And she had the feedback. And then she went, I've got a friend, he's got a . Can he borrow it? And all of a sudden, we started to hear from fellow creative friends that this was something that might be beneficial. So we decided to launch it.
15:57
Yeah, that's awesome. And I can see how it could be a really, really valuable education tool for graphic designers. And not only that, I feel like it would allow them to charge way more for their brand services
16:14
And so much more. And the really, it doesn't matter whether you're a big agency or you're a solo freelancer, you always have to have that conversation where you're trying to explain why it's not just a time for money conversation, we all have that challenge, because it's the, you know, 10 years of experience that allows you to do the job in three hours. We charge for the brand discovery sessions, and depending on the clients that we we have a couple of different versions. At the big end of town, we're charging $5,000 for a half day session using that kit, we also have some mini versions that we do that just focus on even some of the just the visual identity stuff. If someone really wants to smash straight into a logo, we'll just do the visual identity bit with a streamlined start of the kit. And we can charge we don't charge them $500 for those. So if you get the value of the kit, first of all, they love it, they they've made the first step, you brief that comes out of it, you without a doubt know exactly what's inside that client's head and what they want. And then we've got in the InDesign template is in the kit, we do a post discovery reports. So we summarize it they get something tangible after the good experience. And then the back page says next steps and it is right. Well, we do need to work on your logo. But we probably also need to do you know a brand book because you've got all the on got a lot of touch points. And you mentioned website, can you see how you really need to make sure that that isn't a quick and flick, do it yourself job you need to tie it in because this is what's important to your brand. So we've seen and it's not just me delivering these sessions, my team have had such a big upswing in what they're able to sell and upsell at the end of the session.
18:02
Yeah, I can see how it could really, really help branding designers level up in their businesses. Because I know designers always saying, especially those designers who are only trading dollars for time charging hourly, which I think is a massive No. But you can see how a tool like this can add immense value. And you should be charging for value not just for time. And there are clients out there who respond, you know, to this kind of in depth strategy. They're the kind of clients who don't just want like the quick Canva logo or find someone on Fiverr. These are the like the big dream clients with the money that you would be hooking with this kit. And I'm amazed. Yeah, it didn't exist before. Yeah. Me too. Well done.
19:01
There's some variations of it. But I think you know, and I've been in them when they're done and you've got, you know, flip charts on walls. And they're, you know, you spent two days defining a vision and mission statement, and that works for big business. But we really wanted something that in two and a half hours, you've got the best brief that you could possibly get for whatever that job is. The client understands the value of branding, which means you don't feel like you're upselling it's like okay, well now you understand when are we going to shed your money? You know, work. So yeah, it makes all of the pain points that you have in that initial client engagement piece so much easier.
19:40
Yeah. And during the designer boss Summit, where actually. you guys are actually going to give one of these discovery kits away. Yes. Yeah. How exciting is that? Yeah, we it's pretty cool. So you can see some photos on the website like it's physical kits. You turn up it comes in a really funky little case. So you can rock on and it's all protected. So you present professionally to your client. But it's all in there. There's card decks and facilitator guides and attending workbooks. So it's this we're really cool kit, and we're super excited to give one away to one of your summit attendees
20:19
To be in the running to win one of those brand discovery kits definitely jump into the Designer, Boss Summit Facebook group, and all the info will be in there. But it's definitely something that you do not want to miss out on. So if our listeners wanted to read more about the kit or see the photos, where can they go? Kelly?
20:43
Yeah, brand discovery kit.com. And yeah, pretty much all the info is in there. We with every kit that we actually give away two half hour coaching sessions on how to use the kit, or if you want to know how to approach a customer. So we've got your back as well. If you're trying to build that section of your business, we can support you. And we're pretty friendly. So if you want to know more about the kit, or have any questions before you buy or if you want to know anything about branding, we're really happy to answer any questions via that website. Thanks so much. Kelly was so honored to have you guys as one of our major summit sponsors. I'm sure our audience will love checking out the brand discovery kit. Thank you.
21:10
Thanks, Anna.
21:35
You've been listening to the designer boss podcast with Anna Dower and Emma Kate. If you'd like to learn more about us and our upcoming digital summit for graphic and web designers, head to our website designerboss.co