Designer Boss
Designer Boss
G'day Frank on building a design business from nothing - Summit Speaker Series
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0:04
Welcome to the designer boss podcast, listen, learn, love and level up with the ultimate success guide for web and graphic designers.
0:17
My name is Anna Dower. I'm a cake lover and success-slaying graphic design mentor.
And I'm Emma Kate, your personal sensei for mastering the wonderful world of the Web.
0:30
Together, we'll show you how to harness our tried and tested experiences and hard-earned lessons while you soak up everything we know about building a successful design business.
0:50
Hi, and welcome to the Designer Boss Podcast. I'm Anna Dower. And today I'm chatting to someone very special. This guy is a brand identity designer, podcast hosts and creative mentor. And he is one of our headlining speakers at the designer boss summit in February 2021. Say hello to Reagan, also known as Frank from gooday, Frank. Hello
1:15
Good day. How are we doing?
1:17
Good. So do I call you Reagan? Or do I call you Frank?
1:21
I would say Frank, because it's actually Reagan. This is probably a good point to bring up is that this is why I tend to introduce myself as Frank to new people. Not because I don't like my name, but for the ease of use for those that I interact with, that I can give a name that is easier to pronounce, to spell, much like what it is I do for branding for people.
1:46
So there Frank it is. Now that I've introduced you with a fancy bio, and screwing up your name, tell everyone what you do and who you serve. Because I feel like when you say it, in your own words, it's different to the fancy bio.
2:04
It is in my bio, it tends to change every time someone says, Oh, can you send me a bio.
I'm like, What do I feel like I'm gonna say today, I feel about myself. So I'm a 32-year-old male from Sydney or Western Sydney in the Blue Mountains of Australia. I run a design business called gray Frank, it's a brand identity design business catering to small and medium businesses of all sizes, even personal brands, from both in Australia and around the world. I've been doing that now for two and a half years since quitting a full-time job. That was, I think, seven years like on the dot working in TV production. And I was like, Okay, I want to start my own business. And here I am, two and a half years later, with that business still going strong. And a wife behind me running that with me as my business partner, slash someone that keeps me in check, keeps my ego at bay. And we have two little kids, a newborn daughter and a three-year-old son. And yeah, just work from home. Nice, easy lifestyle. Yeah, in terms of, I guess, who I cater to specifically, looking to work with those that are in the tech space, I'm having a bit fair, interesting in technology, and what I can do to help those kinds of businesses stand out, because there are that many of them. And my kind of style tends to be the kind of aesthetic, clean, minimal kind of iconography, I guess, you might say in terms of a logo, but also trying to jazz things up with a nice message and a good identity behind it that people can connect with. And then into 2021, looking to even niche a bit into podcast branding. So for those that are starting up a podcast or want to elevate their podcasts, maybe the new look,feels like that kind of stuff, have a see if people need that kind of service.
4:00
And that's a cool niche. So did you always know that you wanted to be a designer, because I was one of those freaky kids that just always knew. Like, I just had my eye on the prize, and that's what I always want to buy. You know, when I started out, it wasn't all that I had hoped to been would be, because I spent like 10 years designing real estate ads, which is not really design. It's more like just being you know, a monkey Mack monkey around in a box. So did you always know that you wanted to do something creative? And
4:39
yeah, yeah, I mean, I think probably a lot of people might relate to this as like when you're a kid and you start drawing and your mom says, Oh, that's a really nice drawing and they put it up on the wall and I remember like during ninja turtles as a kid, oh, yeah, I'm a hopeless draw, but like turtle 80s 90s Kid during teenage mutant ninja turtles of Michelangelo. Donatello and Raphael and my grandma thought I was amazing because she didn't know what Ninja Turtles were. And they thought she thought that I knew all the Renaissance artists.
5:10
No man
5:12
It's drawing turtles. No one would say so. For me, I think the whole design thing came into it when I first saw Toy Story. For the first time in a movie cinema, my dad took me to it with my sister. And I was just like, What is this? Like, this is next level kind of Disney nation type of stuff. And I mean, I think I was in primary school at that stage. And I was like, Oh, this will be interesting. And then did visual arts in high school. Like, I want to be an animator, there's like I’m in, there's animal logic here in Australia, maybe I could get a job there and then realise what it actually involves. And I was like, Well, this is, this is next level, like learning all these applications of 3d modelling. And all the stuff that was involved was. I don't know if that's too hard. And so I leaned more into the graphic design side of things in my final year in high schools like this, this could be something. And I had a few people like, Oh, can you design me like an album cover? I want to be a singer, or I want to create like a logo or something that can like. Okay, I'll give that a whirl. I think I have a Photoshop version of Photoshop. And figure that out and figure it out in two years, my final two years of high school and was like, Okay, well, where can I go with this? And looked at different universities or colleges like private colleges. And what that was, like, Look mate get a degree, you know, if, if this doesn't work out, you'll have a degree there. It'll show you the tenacity that you've taken four years to, you know, apply yourself depending on what you end up as a job after it was like, Okay, fine, I'll go do University. So I ended up picking a well got into with the lowest UI ever, but still got into university. Because I was just all art stuff, maths, or science or anything like that just bored me to tears. And did a Bachelor in visual communication or design and visual communication, and applied myself so much that I finished up that degree at the top of the class, just because I was like, hell bent is like, this is Mushnik. Like, I think this is it. where I could take that again was another question was like, Okay, does this go into advertising? Because that seems like the likely, you know, place that's all I really know. Are they like design agencies? I'm not too sure. So when I finished university, I was applying to like 20 or 30 different places, and most of them were ad agencies. I got one interview, and I was told that I didn't have enough experience. And it was a junior design role. Oh, yes. You know, to me, it's just such a head-scratcher.
7:49
So brutal.
7:50
And yeah, it's like, well, how the hell do you get a start in this game. And that really sort of knocked the confidence around, and I started doing a couple of freelance jobs and one ended up being an in-house design job. Well, it was actually it was just a one off job. I went into, for a TV production company, they make like X Factor, Australian Idol, these to make Master Chef, like all these big reality kind of shows and neighbours for some dramas as well. And they called me back the next day after doing some work with him and said, Yeah, we just want you to your details for a contract. And I was like, what, what contract, you know, to come and work for us. I was like, Okay, so see you Monday, like, Yeah, I've seen him I know. Oh, wow. And I stayed there for seven years on the day to day. Working as an in-house designer creating identities for TV shows.
8:40
That's a pretty good first gig. I mean, it beats real estate ads.
8:45
It was shit hot. I gotta say, like, just putting yourself into a landscape of something that you've never really considered obviously, you watch it on stuff on TV, and you kind of get a little bit of it. But seeing the behind-the-scenes was kind of interesting. I felt it was very similar to my upbringing, my father was in it still is, in the music industry, like working with big tour companies bringing up you know, like the likes of Elton John and Rolling Stones and all those kinds of big OS X. So it was a very similar kind of behind the scenes sort of feel. But I was there creating identities for those kinds of businesses. So those kinds of shows for this particular business to pitch to, you know, the TV networks in Australia and even overseas, which like led to things like creating decals or what you call library or livery for like aeroplanes. Okay, that's something different. I don't know how to do this, but I'm gonna figure it out. Let's do it. And sure enough, you know, there's a jet stop playing in Singapore Airport, just taking off with my artwork on the side of it like holy hell yeah, that's
9:51
pretty cool.
9:52
There's a portfolio piece and a half so. So yeah, that it got to the end of seven years. I was just like, look at I've always wanted to run my own business. And I'm not so fond of working for someone like, the seven years was fine. Had a lot of different challenges, but it was a lot of just self-initiated kind of drive of work to get done. I had a deadline from someone above me, but it was just me like, I was the only real designer, the creative person. So it was very independent, I guess you might say, so I was just like, Okay, I could do this. But for myself, my own dim, on my own dollar at home. And, you know, with a growing family with at that stage, we had a thing was like a three-month-old. Yeah, yeah, I think he's three months old. By the time I figured, okay, this is going to happen. And then fast. What, six months, July? Or June 30. I quit my job. And then July wants to start a good Oh, Frank.
10:47
I always think that the first kid is like a catalyst. It's like, Yeah, fuck this shit. I'm gonna work on myself now. Like, you just have freedom. It's all about the freedom and flexibility I think. And when you've got that new little person, you're like, I'm not gonna do what you tell me to do. I'm gonna, you know, I want to do it on my own time now, because I know that for me, that first job was the catalyst. I was like, yeah, no more of this. No more working for the man.
11:16
Yeah, it's, I gotta say, it's one of those things that if you're maybe more introverted than extroverted, like I just didn't feel like I fit in into that company culture. I mean, I excelled in the company culture. Like I got out there. I was like the chief firewall and I was running a social committee. I was there, but it just never really felt like this was like my, my place. I guess. I know what you mean. Yeah, it's a bit of an odd one.
11:44
It's funny how I feel like I'm an introverted extrovert, if that makes sense, like,
11:52
That's the facade that I put on as an extroverted persona that you would see. But yeah, it's very introverted, like, with between my family and friends, depending on who the friends are. It's pretty tame. You know, I'm much more relaxed, and quite more quietly spoken. Yeah, with some great mates. Um, yeah, you know, lively, and you know, a bit more of the Jester. But yeah, when you find a space that's yours, and you feel comfortable in, you kind of come out of your shell a bit. And that extroverted nature comes out of what people typically think is an extrovert.
12:27
And then people are like, but you seem so confident, you're always you know, with your podcast, you're doing Facebook Lives, you're doing this, but that's my own space that I created, and I make the rules. And I only do it when I feel energised to do it. That's one of the good things about running your own business is you make the rules. And you know, you don't have to be on when a boss tells you, Oh, you need to be on now. So at the beginning, we quickly touched on who your ideal client is, but I want to talk more about like, you haven't really like been in your own business for that long, I think you said two and a half years, and you seem to have a really clear idea of who your ideal client is, like, how did you get to that point where you stopped wanting to serve everyone, and kind of niche down to who you really want to serve and stick to that, you know, without the fear?
13:25
I gotta say, it's a real tricky one, it might not take you two and a half years, it might take you two weeks, it might take you a decade, two decades, who knows? Because there's no pressure on you trying to find what works for you, you can always just like taste, try different things and see what works for you and, and many builds some experience with particular industry particular industries that you find that you can excel in helping. Like, for me, I excelled in helping TV production companies, and I was like the go to person for that even after finishing up with that company. I still get contacted for a decline it because I'm over it. But you know, that was my stick for then. It took me two years to think okay, well, what could what could my niche be? Because all I keep hearing is people saying, you know, niche plays, if you drill down, you can be super clear on what you want to say. And I'm like, yeah, that's all well and good. But it takes some time to get some real experience and understanding of what that client actually needs. So I still have no idea exactly what protect client needs, because obviously, they're all different. But we have experience with time. And the varied like sectors of that larger tech space. It's going to take me a while to do like I'm working with a guy at the moment that does, you know, cloud computing and all this kind of stuff, which I've never even really considered and I'm like, Okay, how do I best understand this and apply that in the future? But then it also comes down to things like if you're thinking about niching is, is that niche viable? Like, if it's a cafe, are they going to be able to afford, you know, 510 grand brand new job, or website, or photography session like? And is it is it scalable, like you said that many of them that you can reach out to and they need all these services, obviously, you can think a little less local and a bit more global. Like, depending on what your service is, which is what I tend to do now is put content out in the hopes that anyone can see it around the world. But it's not to say that I don't disregard those that come to me that are outside of that niche. Because if I think I can help that business, if they are a personal brand, like I'm working with a guy in Korea at the moment, he has no business no service, I think he just wants to put out stuff for his own dime, because he's a self retired, you know, 30 year old and just wants to have an identity to put out, you know, what he wants to help people with. Like, I didn't say no to that, I was like, this is an interesting challenge. Let's see if this is something that I could do. Then on the flip side, as well, like, if you need the money, you need the money, you'll take what you can get as well, if someone is willing to work with you and pay your rate, then you might be silly to take, not take that. But if you feel like it's going to be a niche that you just have no, you get no inspiration from to really want to help someone in that space. And it just, you know, it's a suppose that maybe bores you to tears, then have a think about maybe, you know, letting that one go referring it on to a fellow creative that you know, might excel in that
16:40
often I find the stuff that we don't want to do helps us to find our niche. Like, I feel like, like you will never reach the destination of your niche. I feel like it's something that will be ever changing. And it is all about kind of taking baby steps towards it like, okay, so I don't like working with florists. They're out now. You know, and, you know, and just trying over time to get clear on what, who you do want to work with and what you want to specialise in. And I do think your brand kind of gives off lead. That's part of your niche as well. Yeah, like it's very recognizable. It's clean. It's you know, you've got the pops of colour.
17:28
And yeah, yeah, it's very pink. Yeah, I love it. It's open enough to be flexible to if I ever want to change what it is I do, I can shift Yes, I made it. So that purposeful that it could transition to whatever it is I want to talk about rather than being hyper specific, which you can be hyper specific. If you're that passionate about a certain industry and you want to go hell bent, hell bent into it, and then rebrand maybe later down the track, that's okay. But I think the biggest sort of plus for it is finishing especially is that you know what to talk about, in your marketing material in your touchpoints, Instagram posts, LinkedIn posts, whatever it might be, but then you can also charge more for it, because you are the person that understands that person's problem. That person's industry, like why would you go to someone that specialises in cafes, if you're a dentist? Yeah, it's, it doesn't make quite as much sense. So that if someone does say a higher price, and they're comparing the pair with other designers that don't specialise in your niche, and they're charging, let's say, $2,000, and you're charging $5,000, because you have that expertise, you know, if someone believes that they're going to get a better result, because they understand. They want to send you as a client, specifically, they're going to feel catered to, and have a bit more trust in that you can deliver, especially if you've got the work to back it up with case studies and testimonials, and you know, that social proof. Yeah, it there's a huge amount of plus to it. The drawback is it takes time to really bail. Which is why I'm thinking of podcast branding next year is that I've made podcasts, I understand how to create them, to edit them to put them out there to you know how I could potentially create courses, create blog content about creating Instagram content about it, but real simple, easy tips to just break that stuff down, which is something that in a general branding sense, or even a tech brand, like big kind of scale business is quite specific and tailored to a specific, you know, business. Whereas podcasting, everyone does the same kind of podcasts. It's either an interview or it's just a conversation. And it's either based on a person like yourself, Anna, or, you know, a collective group of people having a chat every couple of weeks, months, days, whatever it is and that I can drill down onto that person's specific problems because I've had those problems myself. I can relate to them.
19:57
And the niche is basically whatever you do it every day that is easiest for you. Yeah. And often, like, we go on this journey, like, I need to go inwards and find my niche, I need to do all this personal soul searching. But often it is the thing that you do every single day. And that is absolutely easiest for you, just like you said, you know the ins and outs of podcasting. And I know there are a lot of designers out there that do the same thing every day that flows really easily for them. And they're overlooking it, because they're like, Oh, well, everyone knows how to do that, they can just google it, or no one will pay me for that. Or you know what I mean? But yeah, don't discount it.
20:46
And there's a thing like with niching, as well, there's the two verticals of vertical and horizontal niching, where you can specifically niche down to a service that you offer. So it'd be at branding, photography, or it could be even hyperfocus, like, just doing logos, just doing headshot photography, and just doing landing pages for websites, then you've got the horizontal, which is the typical, you know, industry that you want to work with. And you can get as hyper-focus as you want. You could be female entrepreneurs that run coaching clinics, you know, in Australia, you get really specific there, if the niche is viable, because at the end of the day, you're running a business as well, but can't discount the fact that if it's not going to make you money, then it's not. It's not gonna be a great niche to go down, because you're gonna run out. So there's a lot of considerations, but there is if you can find one that ticks all the boxes, that's, you know, in this thing as well, I can't wait to have you on about this is that if someone else is doing that niche, don't feel like you can't as well. Yeah,
21:54
yeah, I hear that a lot. But such and such has an equals on that. And I don't want to create one because it already exists. That's BS.
22:05
It is like I had the same qualms in my own head, like, just like, do I do this whole branding for podcasting or not? Because I heard a guy talk about that he did. And then I talked to design community that I run all of them in that group like, man, just do it like yeah, it's not, it's not, you know, this is not his territory. It's not her territory. You know, there's, it's a big enough world isn't enough of these, you know, people trying to do podcasts, what are you worried about?
22:33
And so, like, I'm gonna have a random kind of curious question. How do you make your money? Because I know, I know, because people often don't understand what I do. And you know, when it's too hard to explain to people, what you do you kind of just say, oh, yeah, I'm a graphic designer, when in actual fact, I pretty much do no graphic design these days, like it is 0% of my income. But I just say graphic designer, because it's easier than explaining. I'm a creative mentor that works with graphic design entrepreneurs, blah, blah, blah. I do think it's important to have more than one way to make money. Yeah. So I'd be interested to hear how you make money.
23:19
Yeah, well, given 2020. At the moment, some of the income is government support. Which has been handy, I gotta say. So that's covering some wages there. But the brunt of it is client revenue. For jobs, you know, they vary in price depending on what's required. But yeah, the bulk of that revenue stream is from client projects, and they're typically billed now, upfront in a way that's phased project pricing, whether or not your listeners have heard that this concept of rather than taking a 50% deposit, and then 50% on completion. I'll do it now where I'll take the money up front for each phase of a project. So it's a branding project, I'll take 25% for self discovery. And then 25% For the strategy, identity, core identity part of things then for 25% of the messaging, and then 25% Before I start the visual identity. So that's how I've started rolling that which has worked much more beneficially cash flow wise, because I'm not waiting for a client to sign off on changes revision. The final piece that you put out there, which can drag things out, you're getting paid up front for it. So if the project halts, you're all good. In addition to that income, it's things like affiliate commissions spruik someone else's product or service. Like in Black, Black Friday, just gone. I was just telling it up today. I was talking to my wife about it. I think we did about $1,000 Just in affiliate commission, and that's cool over three different products that we talked about. So that's, you know, fairly low effort return over, you know, a weekend of just putting some stuff on social media. Yes, it's your time, you know, to talk about things and get yourself on camera and everything. But for me that's like, well, that's a nice little extra bit of income. Yeah, I have a paid design community. I think about 20 or 30 of us that meet up each week and have a chat about our design kind of business life, and it pays for the platform, but anything extra, you know, goes into the pocket. But that typically I don't really see is revenue, I want to put that back into that community. So it kind of just sits in a bank account, basically. And then the last one is, like speaking gigs, you know, being paid here and there for, for to talk and chat and share knowledge with, you know, others like myself. That's kind of it. In the future, though, I'm hoping to create some courses. I've got one that I've been talking about for bloody months now about how to create animated GIFs for Instagram, and Facebook, which I've shot . I just haven't edited it, it's just that life in businesses got in the way. So it's sitting there waiting to be finished. But yeah, even courses like podcasting, how to set up podcasts, and all that kind of stuff. And my big ambition, which won't happen for years now, is to write a book.
26:23
Yeah, yeah.
26:26
Because for me, like starting a design business in Australia, there wasn't really anything contextually about that kind of experience of what you would need to do. And like, I've written a small ebook, on my other website, get a design life for people to like how you could start a design business in eight hours, but it's like a 10 page, you know, kind of snippet of what you could do, but no turning that kind of barons of starting a business into a narrative to show, you know, loosely based on what my experience was, but you know, hammered up a bit with a bit more drama, because it wasn't all that
27:01
drama myself.
27:04
And turn that into something that, you know, could be another income stream if, if I get myself into action to do that. So, yeah, like there's endless possibilities of what you could do, like, yeah, so you know, mock-ups and hand lettering kind of fun, yeah, or whatever it is like there's so much endless possibility of what you can do now. It's whether or not you have the time to do it outside of what it is you do for client work. But if you see it as some passive income that is you do it once and you can leave it there and it can keep doing it. Like my wife has a Skillshare course. We shut it now. Carriage she's a soloist, like she, you know, seamstress, that kind of thing. So I think it's like a self-proclaimed title of creating clothing and all that kind of stuff. And she did a little small course on creating a tote bag. Yes, it's there. We don't promote it. We don't spruik it or anything. And it just generates like 10 US dollars a month. Yeah. And it just sits there. Like it's something amazing, but it just sits there. We don't have to do anything with it. Because Skillshare just promotes it. Yeah, that's awesome. So yeah, that's how I that's how the money is coming in. So
28:15
yeah, well, thank you for clearing that up. It's good to have all those ideas and just slowly implement them one at a time. I also have a book that's half written that one day I will finish hopefully, you'll get there. Yes, slowly. Um, so your social media is pretty full-on like.
28:43
It's like full on in a really good way. I think. Like you take those sound bites or designers have you know, those little bits of knowledge and you make them visual for people that make it really easily digestible. How do you like to have the energy and time and all that sort of stuff to make it happen?
29:04
Yeah, this is the thing. I've heard a lot of people like, if I could bottle what it is I do something and sell it. Yeah. It'd be amazing. But it's, it takes such tenacity in your own right to want to do this kind of thing. Yeah. Like, if we rewind, I think it was much last year. Actually, it was January last year, during the sort of Christmas break that we're about to go into. I took the whiteboard out into our lounge room, I sat down or stood up and my wife sat down and I said, I need to put something out to market this business. What am I going to do? And it was like, okay, I can do social media content. That seems achievable. blog post, not a great writer, but I can give it a crack. And you know, is that ads don't really want to pay for ads, is that viable? All this kind of thing. And yeah, the priority was social media. I was like, Okay, well, what can I really come up with here to Talk about like, obviously, I have to talk about branding, because that's what I do just seemed like the obvious. And so I did that, but I broke it down into, you know, each week was a different topic about branding. And there was five posts each week relating to it just in. And this was before carousels even came along. They came along about six months later, it was just a single individual frame on Instagram. That was something to do with either colour type, simplicity of a logo, all these different elements to creating an identity for a brand. Or business owners to maybe see, it ended up being designers all seeing it, that's like, makes up 99% of my following is other fellow creatives. But it was something that I've made non-negotiable.
30:49
There's no equal to that. Yeah
30:51
Because other designers want to create what you create.
30:54
Yeah, I'm sure there is and that's probably the big thing we talked about before is just taking it for granted with what, you know. Yeah. And how to do it. And for me it was just, the first seven weeks were a bit like, okay, but I found it enjoyable but then after that, several weeks, it became habitual, learning things. I think you are familiar with the saying seven weeks makes a habit. And it really did for me because every night after I put my son to bed at 7:00, I've come back into my office, or out my computer, depending on where we were living at the time and making a piece of content, I would write a ridiculously long caption, which must wife would roam her eyes out because she was like this is way too long. No one's going to read that I was like, no I stuff. It was going to leave it. I don't mind because it's just a single image to go with. And it might have been a quote. It might have been You know, my peanut head in a photo holding a lightsaber that had something to do with branding for some reason, all these different kinds of things that I was doing creatively. Like I even pulled out a glass of water and then dripped some ink into it and it was like a Hallmark back to an excerpt from a Seth Godin book about this particular example, you gave about die. But how, you know, something can transform. I'm not going to go into that but just some really weird creative stuff that I was coming up with. It was getting traction but traction for the I guess the wrong kind because they weren't my target market being other designers but it gives some validation to realise it.
I knew what I was kind of talking about and learning things as I went working with clients working with or interact with other designers of what they're going through and struggling with, to really highlight. What the benefit of Branding could be. And it took, I reckon it took 9. I was nearly 12 months for a client to find that content.
32:51
Oh wow.
35:54
But I Did It For the Love of it. I really didn't see it as a short-term marketing game. It was a long-term branding game of establishing a personality in alignment with what it is I do as a service. Hmm. And for that first like from March until October, I hid behind my logo a lot of the time. Yeah. And it was just my GF. And it was pink and blue branding at the time and I was like, yep. I'm just going to position myself as a company, make myself look like pentagram Orlando and yeah like all these things even though I didn't want to create an agency like that I just wanted to be a sole person and still want to be that and then realise I got to show my face a lot more like yeah, I was kind of here and there but I even look back at my stories because you can look back after two years of your previous stories and I didn't get onto stories for a good eight months like it was like November last year. I think I started getting on with the stories. I was like, what the hell? I was making video content before then, but not that impromptu video kind of connection with that audience until then. So it took some time to open up, but I got to say that as both creating that content and showing up on camera and all these different ways has boosted my confidence exponentially because I can get on here and talk verbatim About the things that I am passionate about that, you know, at the drop of a hat because I know, you know, either know my shit about what it is. I do for clients or I know my shit about how to help other creatives because I've been through those trenches. It just gives you that ridiculous confidence and you start getting this ego coming into it as well. It's going to be an absolute fire and then it just Falls flat. You like you're an absolute dick head. remove that. get that ego out of the way and just do it for love of it . And that it's taken me a while to do so. And I think the biggest detriment has been comparison. You know, we are the creators doing all this. And for me I was looking at people that were, you know, getting these big followings really quickly doing this whole Instagram, growth strategy, bullshit and going trying to go. Okay, well, how do I do that? How do I keep up with that kind of crap and then realise you can't be doing like that's just stupid. They're doing it for a whole different reason for what you're doing it for the total different, but all different audience. Stop trying to be that. So, I have a Post-It note still stuck to my iMac here that says, you know, you're your own competition mate, you know, yeah, look in the mirror. You know, that's your competition.
35:33
Yeah, I like that. Yeah, so I mentioned at the beginning that you're going to be one of the speakers at our designer boss Summit in February, which is so exciting. It's going to be three days of designers. Talking about design business, helping you guys work. Smarter and not harder in your design business. So what will you be talking about at the Summit?
35:57
What topic is verbatim here getting design clients to love and Obey you? I'm not so aligned with the word beg. It's a good full on. Yeah! But what I'd like to just talk about in that kind of space is that you mentioned before and of working with clients and not being told what to do. Yeah I'm not told what to do by my clients never. Yeah you shouldn't be a designer. This is a relationship that you working together for Mutual common goal. Not someone. it's not a one-way Street, it's a two-way street. What I'm hoping to do is kind of Identify some key points of what can put you in the best stared in your client sites, to be the trusted expert in the room because this is one of the misconceptions I guess for designers is to realise that you might know way more about business than your clients actually do.
36:59
Uh-huh. In general. Yeah.
I've been a business owner for a couple of years, you know, maybe even six months and you've read up a hell of a lot about what businesses and does to generate Revenue profit, all the rest of it. You might have such a better understanding and you're going to bring that to the table. You've got to have a business conversation. You've got to be able to charge in a way that makes you on the front foot rather than having the ball in their court. But there are opportunities where you allow your client in To make it a collaborative process, but once it over steps that Mark where it becomes, you know, them telling you what to do in art directing when they've never picked up. Yeah, draw something called, you know, Reverend open Photoshop before you tell you how to do what you do. That's when it becomes an unremarkable problem. So we want to try and see how we can fix that.
37:49
and it's not about being like a bossy bitch or anything like that. It's just kind of gaining their respect
38:00
right? I trust and you can do that in so many facets. Even before even having that first conversation. Yes. And so it's looking at all these different things. As quick, as I can in 30 minutes, I think it is that I have to do this. So I'm gonna try and get the best points possible, and then we can do some Q&A after it, but, yeah, it can take experience though and take some confidence to get to that. That point though. That's I think the big thing to realise is that, it's not going to. I'm not going to tell you something can half an hour and you're going to do it and then it's just going to solve all your problems. It's going to take, you know, some real guts for you as the design business owner expert in the room to really just you know be that boss, be that Designer boss lady. Yeah.
38:42
Well you know it. Yeah. awesome! It's been so good to chat to you Frank and I can't wait for you. You to be part of the summit, I know everyone's going to learn so much from you.
38:50
Looking forward to it. Thank you.
39:04
You've been listening to the designer boss podcast with Anna Dower and Emma Kate. If you'd like to learn more about us and our upcoming digital summit for graphic and web designers, head to our website designerboss.co