The ROI of Presence: Navigating Power Dynamics and Value Protection with Bianca Riemer

A single missed hello. A mismatched message. A room full of people quietly deciding you’re not credible. That’s how millions can evaporate without a single error in the numbers, and it’s why leadership communication is a business-critical skill for finance leaders, CFOs, and technical experts stepping into high-stakes roles.

We sit down with Bianca Riemer, a former top-ranked sell-side analyst at Morgan Stanley who now advises CEOs, CFOs, directors, and private equity and fintech leaders on executive presence, boardroom communication, and the make-or-break first 100 days. Bianca shares what surprised her most about the “analysis” job that was really a sales and influence job, and why technical leaders often struggle when they suddenly have to persuade non-technical decision makers with different incentives and risk appetites.

You’ll hear a vivid story of a newly promoted CFO who lost investor trust and fundraising leverage by misreading power dynamics and failing to address what the audience actually cared about: what the money was for and what return investors could expect. From there we dig into the silent tax of leadership hesitation, how women in male-dominated industries get punished for trying to fit the wrong mold, and why authenticity can reduce toxicity and turnover. Bianca also connects nervous system regulation to authority, offering practical tools like abdominal breathing and better question framing to help you reset your presence when a meeting starts sliding.

If you want sharper stakeholder management, faster decision making, and more credibility in senior rooms, hit play. Subscribe, share this with a leader facing a tough transition, and leave a review with the one communication habit you’re working on right now.

Transcript

Welcome And What’s At Stake

Dr. Leah OH 0:00

Welcome to another episode of The Communicative Leader. I'm your host, Dr. Leah O. We often discuss leadership as a human endeavor about shepherding people toward a shared vision and creating environments where they can thrive. But what happens when the stakes are tied to millions of dollars in value protection in the high pressure environment of the boardroom? Today's guest is a true bridge builder between technical excellence and executive influence. Bianca Reimer is a former top-ranked sell-side analyst at Morgan Stanley who has transitioned into advising CEOs, CFOs, and directors in the worlds of finance, fintech, and private equity. She specializes in helping leaders navigate those crucial first 100 days where credibility is built or lost, linking executive presence directly to commercial outcomes like decision velocity. What makes her approach truly distinctive is her focus on how nervous system regulation underpins authority in senior rooms. In today's episode, we're diving into the silent tacks of leadership hesitation, how to decode power dynamics that technical skills alone can't solve, and how to master your own internal state to command a room. Let's dive in and have some fun. Hello and welcome to the communicative leader, hosted by me, Dr. Leah O'Millian Hodges. My friends call me Dr. O. I'm a professor of communication and a leadership communication expert. On the communicative leader, we're working to make your work life what you want it to be. Oh, Bianca, thank you so much for joining us on The Communicative Leader. I'm so excited for our chat today and learn more about the incredible work that you do. And so let's start with kind of this analytical shift. So I know you spent years as a top-ranked sales side analyst at Morgan Stanley, and now you've transitioned into executive coaching. And I'm wondering, you know, how does that analytical rigor influence how you approach, and I use soft in quotes here, soft science of leadership communication. And I'm really interested in where you see these two worlds intersecting.

Bianca Riemer 2:18

Yes, that's such a great question, Leah. So I actually had the shock of my life when I started as that in that saleside research role at Morgan Stanley, because I expected to role to just be financial analysis and then you present it somewhere, right? But it was actually much more of a sales and marketing role than an analytical role. I mean, yes, you have to do the analysis, but you only have publicly available data as a stock market analyst anyway. And the what what really the critical part of the job was being able to come up with a contrarian idea about a stock, but then above all, being able to sell that idea to people who are very busy, to people who are very skeptical, and to people who don't necessarily need to listen to you because my stocks are very small. So that was the big shock. And having to learn to sell then, that was the biggest challenge in that role. But that was also then the biggest gift that now helps me help people in my executive coaching practice because I get a lot of technical leaders who are making that step up to a leadership level where they have to start influencing non-technical leaders. And that is a completely new skill to learn.

Finance Communication Under Uncertainty

Dr. Leah OH 3:39

Yeah, yeah, exactly. And I'm excited we're gonna learn more about it. And I think this next question is gonna help us get into that. And so, and you work with a lot of finance leaders, fintech leaders, and you focus on value protection. And Yank, I'm so excited to learn more about this. And so I'm wondering in your experience, how does a leader's communication style, you know, and I think particularly their ability to communicate clearly under fire, under these deadlines, how does it directly prevent, you know, all of these other organizational headaches that we deal with on a day-to-day basis?

Bianca Riemer 4:15

Yes. So what's very specific to finance leaders is that your financial analysis has to be right. So the numbers have to be right. But you operate in a very uncertain environment. You know, there's lots of different trends happening in the world. And business cycles have compressed significantly in the last 20 years. Now it's the life cycle used to be 70 years, and latest data shows it's it's significantly reduced to like six years or something. So also the duration of people enrolled at top level has compressed significantly. So there's all this uncertainty. So, how do you then balance that out? The fact that you have to be right about the numbers, but there's all this uncertainty in the world, and you're trying to be strategic in your role as a finance leader. And uh what what the big step that many people have to take there is being able to influence people who don't have your background, who are not finance people, and who have got different interests to what you're interested in, because you're interested in, above all, protecting the downside, like you then you also have to manage a potentially very empire-building-driven CER who wants to do everything and invest in everything, buy everything, and you have to remember to tell him or her, hey, we have a budget and we need to be strategic about it. So your communication skills become so much more important, and also your ability to see things from the other person's point of view and that's to that.

Dr. Leah OH 5:44

Yeah, yeah. And like you're saying, a lot of times they're they're, you know, both using the same language, but in such radically different ways with different assumptions that um it can almost feel like a comedy skit, but it has such large consequences attached.

Bianca Riemer 6:02

CEO and CFO, I've experienced as a stockbroker, I experienced them in so many different social settings as well. And they're like a married couple.

Dr. Leah OH 6:13

Yeah, oh yeah, I can see that.

Bianca Riemer 6:15

Yeah, the journalists are so there. Usually the CEO will go like, let's do it. OMG, I'm so excited, you know. Let's let's buy this thing, let's let's do take this initiative. And the CFO will sit there going like, you know, putting their thinking face on and go like, yeah. It's just so funny, but the two really co-depend on each other because if the CEO didn't have the CFO, they they go bust with the next couple of months. Exactly. Their mindset is so goal-focused that they forget or ignore the risks, the stumbling blocks. Whereas the CFO's job really is to hold the reins, you know, if the CEOs of us hold the rein, yeah, and actually be strategic, keep all the risks and budget constraints in mind. And when the dynamic is right, they're the dream team to um to help the company thrive in the long term.

Dr. Leah OH 7:15

Yeah, yeah. So let's talk about short term now. So we've talked about long term. I know a lot of your work focuses on helping these technical experts who are in these leadership positions, their first 90 to 100 days. And we know that's when they're really under that initial microscope. And I'm wondering, Bianca, you know, what are some things you've seen? What are some of these common communication slips or faux paws that cause them to lose credibility, even when their technical skill, their numbers are beyond repo reproach?

Bianca Riemer 7:46

Yes. So with transitions, of course, there's a lot of pressure on the person. So the pressure then amplifies your normal weaknesses to a completely new level. So communication errors that happen in these transition phases, well, most people tend to be either too loud and you know, they tend to become defensive. They think everything's a fight that they need to win.

Dr. Leah OH 8:10

Yeah. Right?

Bianca Riemer 8:11

That's how then their ego should and people don't experience them as very pleasant. Or the opposite is the case where they are they hold back, they just want to analyze everything, get all the ducks in a row, and then their perception of them is that ooh, you know, they're not a leader, they're not doing anything. So you want to find the right balance between listening, but also starting to make some contributions as well.

Dr. Leah OH 8:43

Yeah, you're right. That's so helpful. I think too, for a lot of folks, there's this kind of antiquated notion, and we've kind of followed this arc many times in large corporations. Uh a leader's out, a new one comes in, and they feel like they have to change everything. Yeah. So if that's the model that you've kind of seen, whether or not you're really aware that you're drawing from it, we can see why for some it's come in, try to change everything loud, right? I'm in control, or the opposite, especially if you come from an analytical background, you can see why the observation approach is the most comfortable, right? They're they're they're gathering data.

Bianca Riemer 9:23

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And in both scenarios that you just described, there's a lot of uncertainty amongst the employees because they want to know what is this person really like.

Dr. Leah OH 9:35

Exactly.

Bianca Riemer 9:37

But what they tend to see in the first 900 days is the person's weaknesses.

Dr. Leah OH 9:43

Yeah. Wow, whew, that is that's a tough one. And you're so spot on. Exactly. Yeah. So let's dive into that more. And I think part of this becomes in kind of this ability to kind of learn how to read the room. And you shared this really powerful story about a CFO whose missteps cost millions, not because of a technical error, but because they they misread power dynamics. So, Bianca, you know, how how can a leader use this relational intelligence to kind of decode these unwritten rules of senior leadership or in a boardroom interaction?

Bianca Riemer 10:18

Yes, absolutely. So let me start by explaining what happened in this particular situation. This was a new CFO at the time. He'd been in post for nine months and he was an internal promotion, so he'd been with the company for at least five, six years. So he was very um technically, he was highly qualified. You know, he knew everything about the reporting, the numbers, etc. But the failure happened when he came to London for the first time to raise money for this company. So this was a stock market listed company, and he was clearly making the wrong assumptions about the whole situation. Because what happened was he there was a breakfast meeting, and I mean you won't believe what happened. It's just schoolboy error. But basically, he failed to say hello to people as they entered the room. He failed to introduce himself as the CFO. And an investor then called me after the meeting and he said, Who were these cowboys? They can't they don't they don't seriously believe that I'm gonna give them any money, do they? Because what happened is the CFO then stood up middle of the meeting and presented the last financial report, which the investors had already listened to the results presentation. But what the investors wanted to know is what are you going to use the money for? And is this going to give me a good return on my investment? And that information was completely ignored in the presentation by the CFO. So investors felt they had they had wasted their time going to that breakfast meeting, and also they had a very bad impression of the CFO, who had really no interpersonal skills and who hadn't shown respect for the time of the investors by actually giving them what they wanted. So how could this CFO have prevented this big misstep that cost millions by the issuing a set number of shares in the market and the share price dropped during the roadshow because investors didn't only trust them? Yeah, they raised a lot less money than they could have done. So what the CFO could have done to make a better impression with investors is to actually have some conversations with them before he needed the money. So he was in post for nine months. He could have had some investor meetings to start building trust, to start creating the relationship building. But the first time he ever reached out to investors was when he wanted the money. And this is where, wait a minute, who are you? What does your company do again? And what are you going to use the money for? So there was no relationship building, there was no trust building. And then there was also no awareness of what the audience wanted when he presented to the audience. So they wanted to know what are you going to use them. Yeah. Which is a very it's an obvious question when you're raising funds, when you're raising money. You have to tell investors what you're going to do with the money. So investors decide whether it's a good use of your money or not, of yum, of their money or not. And he completely ignored that because his view was that, hey, a stock market list of company, our share price has been going up, so clearly we must be good. So investors should give us more money. It was lack of research and lack of awareness of what the audience wanted. So the learnings uh that come out of this is start building relationships before you need to leverage them.

Speaker 3 13:38

Yeah.

Bianca Riemer 13:38

Start building trust. And when you have something to ask for, explain to people what's in it for them and how you're going, what's the return is what the return is going to be for them. And then it will work so much better.

First 100 Days Credibility Traps

Dr. Leah OH 13:54

Yeah, that is an expensive but important lesson to learn. Absolutely. Yeah, my it's um, you know, some of these things as a communication scholar, it's it's so hard to hear because you're like, these are fundamentals, but it also helps to reiterate, you know, the importance of these courses. These are things that then I'll go back and tell students. Like saying hello does matter, reaching out ahead of time to broker relationships. It does matter. So let's continue, Bianca, and this idea of the silent tax and action. And you know, it's something we talk a lot about on the show, this invisible cost of a variety of things in organizations. But right now, let's think about leadership hesitation. And we know that finance is very high stakes. And I'm wondering where you've seen that hesitation manifest most dangerously for a newly appointed leader.

Bianca Riemer 14:50

Yes. So where I see this a lot is with not just with this group of people, but a lot with this group of people is women in male-dominated industries. So over time, they've made a lot of negative experiences where they were underestimated or where there were assumptions being made about their availability to work or to get promoted or a challenge challenging project. And they're holding these memories of these negative experiences within them and then tend to hold back. And one very prominent example is where one of my clients was just trying everything to be like the guys. So she even bought technical books to try and understand what they were talking about. Because the guys, it was it was like a little schoolboy kind of environment. They were all, you know, minus bigger than yours, and uh it was very annoying for her because they weren't really talking business. And staff turnover was very high, it was a 25% at the time. And she said, You have to help me to keep up with these guys. And as we were doing the coaching, she realized that she actually wanted to be completely different from them. She wanted to be the queen of the boardroom and stop the nonsense and actually improve the business. And once she allowed herself to show up as the queen of the boardroom, she started standing up for other women in the company. She started confronting the knights at the port for fighting in the corridors with no real reason. And she started showing up as the queen of the boardroom for real. She started doing a lot more public speaking, which she'd previously was scared of. And in one of her talks, she asked her audience, you know, what do you think my personal brand is? Because it was a talk about personal branding. And the chat comments, she sent me a screenshot of the chat comments afterwards, and they were lovely comments along the lines of she always knows what everybody needs, and she gives it to them. So Queen of Hearts. She never told them, Oh, my stereotype, you know, my archetype is queen of hearts, that's who I want to be. That's how she came across once she allowed her to have her power. She put people together, she was very collaborative, competition levels went down, correction up. Turnover went from 25% to 0%. And overall, the toxicity of the workplace, competition, unnecessary competition amongst peers, went down to a level where people felt very comfortable working there. And she got promoted, she bought her first home in her 40s. And it's just such an empowering story, I think. Yeah. Anybody who feels like they can't show up the way that they really are at work, I think you stand in your power, you show up how you want to show up. You know, this was one single woman leader in a male industry who then stood in her power and she changed the vibe of the entire department. She's she took all of the technical books to the charity shop and started reading books. I love that anthropology because she's interested in. And you know, the light coming from her just she was shining so much brighter.

Dr. Leah OH 18:06

Yeah. What a powerful, powerful story. And I love that because I think so many times new leaders feel like it's very performative, right? Like, I need to be like this person or I need to be like that person. We're like, no, you just need to be the best you. Like, what are your strengths? And and that's such a powerful story in recognizing that, you know, it wasn't, you know, using humor the way that the men were using humor or approaching things the way they did that wasn't working, was gonna lead to burnout. And she had so many more powerful results for embracing who she is. Yeah, absolutely. Love it. And this is a follow-up, and this is something that I love that you do when I was preparing for a conversation is that you bring in nervous system regulation to presence and authority. And Bianca, I'm wondering, you know, if you can explain how a leader's internal physiological state, how it kind of communicates to a board, to a team, even before they finish that first sentence.

Bianca Riemer 19:11

Yes, absolutely. It even starts before you enter the room because people can feel. We can all feel when somebody is not showing up authentically or when somebody is doesn't feel comfortable, right? If you even think about the last speaker that you saw present somewhere, you know that they were nervous. If if they were nervous, you that they were nervous. So many people can't really put their finger on it because it's not necessarily something that comes through in body language or in in the voice, but it's an energy. And most people will say, will admit to themselves, yeah, I just know that that person wasn't real, that that person was acting.

The CFO Mistake That Cost Millions

Dr. Leah OH 19:51

Yeah.

Bianca Riemer 19:52

So, and I I learned the science of this when I learned about pronic healing. So it's an energy science that I learned about that's now being looked into here by the government in the UK with the NHS, and they did hospital studies here with an amazing 84% full clinical recovery rate for chronic pain and uh psychotherapy. Anyways, the energy technique is called pronic healing. It's a science that's protocol and technique based that anybody can learn. And I learned it, and that's when I really started understanding how energy works and how it also worked a lot for me back in the days at Morgan Stanley when I was an equity analyst, and how also now it works for my clients with increasing their presence in the boardroom. The way to understand that how this works is that we are all lighthouses. So if you're a leader, imagine yourself as a lighthouse house and you're sending out this light, trying to attract ships to you. So your followers, right, trying to build trust. Your negative emotions, whether that's negative self-talk or stress and anxiety, whether that's um negative memories from the past or often called trauma or anger and resentment towards other people, or the grudges that you hold against certain other departments in your company or individuals, they are like dark clouds that surround your lighthouse. Now, if there's dark clouds around your lighthouse, the ships can't see you. So subconsciously, even though most people are not clever and we cannot see energy, we may be aware of energy because there's so much going on for us, right? We tend to focus on physical things. But we even if somebody's a named leader, if they have a lot of dark clouds around their lighthouse, you're not going to see the light coming from them. So you do not trust them. And that's the end of the story.

Dr. Leah OH 21:44

Yeah.

Bianca Riemer 21:45

So what can people do to become better leaders is to work on the dark clouds, get rid of the dark clouds so that their light can shine and they can show up as the real people they really are and attract more boats.

Dr. Leah OH 22:00

Yeah, I love that. That's something I found in my for years, decades. It's even if employees can't name it. So I do a lot of research with leader and employee relationships, they're really savvy discerners of managerial behavior. So even if they can't say why, why something feels off, why they can't just trust this person, they they feel it, like you said. Yes. Very savvy.

Bianca Riemer 22:25

Yeah. So if somebody doesn't trust themselves, other people are not gonna trust them.

Speaker 3 22:31

Yeah.

Bianca Riemer 22:31

And I learned this myself as a stockbroker at Morgan Stanley. I never trusted myself because I had various, you know, I I'm not a native English speaker. I didn't go to elite universities like everybody else. I don't have a posh accent. I don't have first-time passes in my accounting qualification, blah, blah, blah, lots of factors. And I was telling myself the story that I wasn't good enough, and they almost fired me when I asked for promotion because I was working very hard. They almost fired me. They said, We're not seeing any output from you. Uh, we want you to be out there um with contr with contrarian ideas. Then I looked at oh, what's different about me from all the guys, and I realized they think they're good enough. I think I'm not good enough. So, anyways, the positive self-talk. So I I made the decision to talk more nicely to myself. The positive self-talk by itself was already very effective back in the time. I started showing up completely different, a lot more empowered. I said no to stupid tasks like oh update spreadsheets. No, sorry, I can't update your spreadsheet because I'm talking to the most important client of the time, which was true by the way. I wasn't lying. Yeah, anyways, and that in itself was already very, very powerful. And instead of getting fired, I got promoted and my salary almost doubled at the time. So self-positive self-talk is very powerful, but that's just overpowering the dark clouds. So maybe you shine a little bit brighter, but the dark clouds are essentially still there. So there's other techniques than that I teach my clients to actually get rid of the dark clouds.

Dr. Leah OH 24:04

Yeah.

Bianca Riemer 24:05

And one of the techniques that's very, very powerful for people is just simply breathing into your belly. So most people breathe into their chest, but if you ever watch a young child or an animal breathe, they're actually doing deep abdominal breathing where the belly expands as you inhale and then draws back to the spine as you exhale. So therefore, using your full capac lung capacity, also relaxing the solar plexus area at the top of your tummy where we often hold a rock when we're really smart. So by practicing a deep abdominal abdominal breathing, people can release a lot of these dark clouds and come across where so much more presence in meetings build better trust.

Dr. Leah OH 24:49

Yeah, yeah. And another thing I've learned, so I I have an anxious kiddo, and what I've learned is how communicative nervous systems are.

Bianca Riemer 25:06

Yes, yes, just like the client example I gave with the queen of the boardroom.

Dr. Leah OH 25:11

Yeah.

Bianca Riemer 25:12

By channeling the queen of the boardroom through a nervous system and doing the breathing and bit some chronic healing for her as well to expel the stress energies from her system. Yeah, she showed up with so much power, positive power, so much love, if I'm allowed to use that word. Yeah, yeah. Like a so much genuine, you know, unconditional love and nurturing energy towards the people she she was working with that they could not help but feel attracted to her because unconditional love is very attractive to people. And they don't even realize why they like it or they why they like you. They don't know why they like you, but because you send out that positive energy towards them, it's just irresistible.

Dr. Leah OH 26:00

Exactly. And I was just thinking when you said that, like we might not be able to name why we're drawn to someone or why we trust them. It's the same, the opposite. Sometimes we don't know why we don't trust them or why we don't like them. So I think that's just a a really powerful remember that we don't think to remember that we don't necessarily need to be able to name all of those things because we recognize that there's so much that we're communicating without being aware of it. Yeah. That when we are empowered and we show up from this healthy state, that it can be transformative for all of those around us. So much. Absolutely. So let's talk about another really pragmatic element. And this is something that I think was is gonna help so many listeners. So I'm wondering, you know, for this leader who is in this new position, they're feeling all the scrutiny, what is a practical kind of reset that they can do to their presence? So maybe they're in a meeting, it hasn't been going well, if they start to feel like that authority is slipping, what can they do?

Hesitation And Owning Your Power

Bianca Riemer 27:06

Yes. So my top tip is always to focus on their belly button. And as they inhale, push out the belly button, and then as they exhale, the belly button comes back in. Oh, and just try to slow down your breathing as much as possible. So why are we breathing like that? I've already mentioned small children and animals tend to breathe like that. But also, if you look at martial arts, in martial arts, the belly button is the center of power because the belly button is where your gut instinct is based in martial arts or in energy science. So obviously, we're not gonna go into kung fu in difficult meetings. But the belly button is also where your business gut instinct is based. People with very good business instinct tend to have a lot of energy in the in the belly area. So when you feel like authority is slipping and you feel like disempowered in meetings, what you can do is focus on your belly button as you inhale and exhale, and that will give you a lot of energy. And and then you you can fork refocus again on the your intellectual and emotional involvement in the conversation. Uh and my second tip would be focus more on asking good questions than necessarily good answers, because if you're new in a role, their expectations of you giving good answers are relatively low, but they're still looking for a fresh pay off based on what they've been doing. And questions, eye-type questions, but without using the word why, um, very, very powerful in those first 90 to 100 days. Now, why do we not use the word why? Because most of us grew up hearing the word why was something negative, right? Why haven't you done your homework? Why uh why haven't you brushed your teeth and why is is your room not tidy? So I would avoid using the word why, but make why question anyway, so you can say what's the reason for, or or what's the rational for, what made take this path rather than that path, or what are the way? Yeah. What are the opportunities of doing it this way? So that that those are some examples of why questions, and the pressure is of you, it's of you, but you have still shown courage in asking a challenging question without energy of hey, you're doing it wrong, and we did it so much better in my previous that energy is not welcome, but a fresh pair of an open mind, asking curious questions by all means.

Dr. Leah OH 29:58

Yeah, yeah. And I love it. And I imagine, uh, for a lot of with a lot of the folks that you work with who are analytically minded, that this is a really nice on-rope that aligns with the kind of their natural strengths, but allows them also to demonstrate that leadership early on. Absolutely. Yeah. So let's think about authenticity and kind of this traditional idea of command. And, you know, I think this is something that many new leaders struggle with is figuring out well, how do I find this balance? You know, this need to kind of direct or command this authoritativeness that comes with the position, but balancing it with the vulnerability required to build genuine trust and long-term relationships. So, you know, what are what are some of the tips that you give to your clients who are trying to figure out how to navigate that?

Bianca Riemer 30:55

Yes. So the relationship building tends to happen in one-on-one meetings. So that's where then it's also more comfortable being a little bit more vulnerable as well. That's where then you create that trust by showing a little bit of vulnerability. I would avoid doing that in large groups because in large groups everybody is naturally braced. And when scrutiny is high, people tend to go with what's safe. And somebody's new, and then being vulnerable, that's totally not safe, and I will stay away from that person.

Speaker 3 31:31

Yeah.

Bianca Riemer 31:31

So, but the vulnerability really is really an asset, then once you connect with somebody else on a one-to-one basis. And then the other thing that I would really focus on is also start building relationships with people who are not important to the role that you're in. So why am I saying not important? Yeah. Because these people can be your support system when all the important people are causing you stress. So a person's not important, maybe um an assistant from a team that you don't really interact with, or you know, appear in a team that you don't. But these people build relationships with them first, is what I tell my clients, because you you don't care too much about having credibility with them, but you can build really trust with them, and they can give you some really important insights on the stakeholder dynamics, the political environment in your new work that can then inform where you can build your strategic alliances that you will need sooner or later as you progress in your role.

Dr. Leah OH 32:42

Yeah, I love that advice, and that is not advice I hear very often at all, but so important for the reasons that you listed listed. And then they have these allies outside of those immediate work ties. Yes, absolutely.

Bianca Riemer 32:57

Because you need a support system. Sooner or later, there's going to be a really stressful situation. That's when usually people call me. They're three to six months into the role, and things have started happening, and they feel that they're not cut out for the role. And they usually tend to hire me for career advice on how to find a new job. You know, there's going to be the technical expert, only have the leadership position they always wanted, and then they realize, oh, maybe I'm not cut out for this. I'm going to go back to coding. Can you help me find it? But all that's happening is that they haven't invested in the new so-called soft skills, the communication skills that they need in the new role, and then they start questioning themselves. The skills, communication is a skill that everybody can exactly. And especially when technically savvy people learn communication, they become unstoppable.

Dr. Leah OH 33:50

Yeah. So, Bianca, I have two final questions for you, and they work hand in hand. And this is the way we end all episodes of the communicative leader. And so the first part is, you know, leaving our listeners, our titled leaders out there, our managers, our directors, supervisors, you know, with a challenge, a tip or advice. And then the second part is what is that same the tip, challenge, or advice for employees of all ranks? Yes.

Bianca Riemer 34:20

So my top tip for leaders that nobody else seems to talk about, but that actually makes the biggest difference to their leadership is to let go of your grudges. So if you remember the lighthouse with the dark clouds around us, the grudges, your resentment against people from the past or people from the other department, or maybe in your team or above you, your resentment, your grudges, your anger are the darkest clouds that stop other people from being able to connect with you. And a very simple technique that gets taught in pranic healing, for example, is it's called the forgiveness technique. And most people say, no, no, no, no. These people don't deserve to be forgiven. They did really bad things to me. And I say, I believe you, these people were incapable at the time. They had reached their capacity. But are you going to keep punishing yourself for the mistakes of other people? Because anger and resentment are hurting us more than other people. It's like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die. Right? They cause health issues in our own system, and they're also a barrier of really open communication and trust building with the people that we lead. So, what really helped me at the time was imagine the other person is a baby and they have reached their capacity in terms of, you know, the baby can't sort out their own diaper, right? They give a signal, they cry, you go and sort out their diaper for them. You're not keep being angry with the baby for making you sort out their diaper. You just get on with it, and that's the end of that. So when an adult then hurts you, they have reached the capacity of whatever it was, empathy, collaboration, or technical competency, right? So they have reached the capacity, and that then is a good way of thinking, okay, well, I don't expect this person not perfect, I'm not perfect either. I'm gonna forgive them for my sake, not for their sake. Let's be honest, they still have these capacity constraints and it's holding them back. I'm not gonna punish myself for the capacity constraints of another person. I'm gonna let go of these grudges. And then, especially in conflict situations where you have to confront the other person for bad behavior of some sort, if you manage to actually forgive them before the session, that will then enable you to make it safe for them in the confrontation, in the conversation that follows, so that you can have an adult-to-adult conversation, make it safe for the other person that don't feel criticized, and that that's what then can help you collaborate together to find a better way forward that serves everybody. So the forgiveness, the letting go of anger and resentment.

Dr. Leah OH 37:08

Yeah.

Nervous System Tools And Final Advice

Bianca Riemer 37:08

That's a really big for leaders where I see that makes the biggest difference for them and for employees. Don't wait to be named a leader before you start leading. And most people that I speak to don't see themselves as a leader, but we're actually all linked, all influenced other people. You know, I remember working in a new place, and the team assistant was the most friendly, welcoming, honest, trustworthy person that I met. She actually showed the strongest leadership skills of anybody and Dadham. And you can have such a positive ripple effect, no matter what your place is in the hierarchy, by just being friendly, leading with empathy, empathy, and love. You can literally change how a person's day goes, and then that will obviously make them show more of that friendliness, that empathy, that love, and gradually you create this ripple effect with your positive attitude. So that is something to focus on for everybody, really, and that's how we can collect and change the the vibe of this world, world to better place live for everybody.

Dr. Leah OH 38:22

I agree. And I really love how much agency that gives people because I think so often we feel like, well, I can't do anything. I don't like this, but I can't do anything about it because I'm not a leader, or I my budget or these constraints or these constraints. But when you're recognizing that we can we can be genuine, we can be thoughtful, we can be warm, and that has, like we've said, really transformative effects, you know, small teams and it goes out and out. So yes, yes. I just I love that. Yes. Well, Bianca, this has been so enlightening. I have really enjoyed our conversation. I've thought more about my belly button in these few minutes than I have in years, and I know I will continue to, yeah, which is so helpful. So thank you for sharing what you do, and thank you for the work that you do and sharing your time with us today.

Bianca Riemer 39:14

Absolutely. Thank you so much for inviting me on the show, Leah. I've really enjoyed sharing these ideas, and I hope it inspires somebody as well.

Dr. Leah OH 39:22

All right, my friends, that wraps up our conversation today. Until next time, communicate with intention and lead with purpose. I'm looking forward to chatting with you again soon on the Communicative Leader.