The Architecture of Giving a Damn: Leading with Curiosity, Compassion, and Clarity

We often talk about leadership in terms of strategy, metrics, and bottom lines. But as we move further into 2026, many leaders are finding that traditional "command and control" structures are failing to keep teams engaged. The reality is that organizational culture isn't something that lives on a poster or in a policy manual; it lives in the daily reality of our conversations. When those conversations lack heart, we often see a loss of trust, a dip in decision velocity, and a rise in burnout.

Today’s guest argues that the antidote to these organizational headaches is simple, yet radical: we have to actually give a damn.

Justin Ricklefs is the Founder and CEO of Guild Collective, a brand consultancy that helps organizations find their true voice through intentional storytelling. He brings a unique perspective to the table, having built his leadership philosophy in the high-stakes front office of the Kansas City Chiefs before transitioning into advising brands on how to build genuine connection.

He is the author of the forthcoming book, Give a Damn: Modern Leadership through Curiosity, Compassion, Clarity, and Consistency.

In today’s episode, we’re diving into how to turn communication into a strategic asset, why clarity is a form of kindness, and how leaders can dismantle the myth of strength to foster a culture where employees are truly seen, valued, and empowered.

Transcript

Why Culture Lives In Conversations

Dr. Leah OH 0:00

Welcome to another episode of The Communicative Leader. I'm your host, Dr. Leah O. We often talk about leadership in terms of strategy, metrics, and bottom lines. But as we move further into 2026, many leaders are finding that traditional command and control structures are failing to keep teams engaged. The reality is that organizational culture isn't something that lives on a poster or in a policy manual. It lives in the daily reality of our conversations. And when those conversations lack heart, we often see a loss of trust, a dip in decision velocity, and a rise in burnout. Today's guest argues that the antidote to these organizational headaches is simple yet radical. We have to actually give a damn. Justin Ricklefs is the founder and CEO of Guild Collective, a brand consultancy that helps organizations find their true voice through intentional storytelling. He brings a unique perspective to the table, having built his leadership philosophy in the high-stakes front office of the Kansas City Chiefs, before transitioning into advising brands on how to build genuine connection. He's the author of the forthcoming book Give a Damn Modern Leadership through Curiosity, Compassion, Clarity, and Consistency. In today's episode, we're diving into how to turn communication into a strategic asset, why clarity is a form of kindness, and how leaders can dismantle the myth of strength to foster a culture where employees are truly seen, valued, and empowered. Let's dive in and have some fun.

Lessons From The Chiefs Front Office

Dr. Leah OH 1:34

Hello and welcome to the communicative leader, hosted by me, Dr. Leah O'Millian Hodges. My friends call me Dr. O. I'm a professor of communication and a leadership communication expert. On The Communicative Leader, we're working to make your work life what you want it to be. Justin, thank you so much for joining us today in The Communicative Leader. I'm so excited about your path and kind of learning more about what you've done and how that's impacting how you lead and communicate now. And for our listeners, you spent years with the Kansas City Chiefs before founding Guild Collective. And I know in professional sports, the focus is often the scoreboard, right? This is a very immediate and clear element that helps people to consider progress. But you argue that communication is a strategic asset. So what was the specific organizational headache or what were those obstacles you kept bumping into that you witnessed in the front office that taught you that the technical excellence without intentional connection, it's just a recipe for failure.

Justin Ricklefs 2:38

Yeah. Well, first of all, Dr. Leah, thanks for having me on. It's such a pleasure and admire your work and know that you are quite literally shaping the future of communications with students and the work you do. Yeah, it's a it's a pleasure to have conversations like this. Yeah, I it's such a great question. What where my where my thoughts kind of go is is the the connectivity to the human sounds so simple to say on on a podcast or in a conversation, but when when you're in the kind of the throes of corporate culture, it's so simple. And I've done this for sure. Like it's so simple to minimize or discard the humanity. And you hear phrases like, well, leave that at the door, or this is business, not personal, like all these kind of crazy things that when you investigate them and inquire about them, you're like, wait, I don't think that that's necessarily true. And so I think that, you know, whether it was any of my corporate career or my own leadership of going, hey, when you when you lose sight of that human connectivity, things generally don't go great.

Dr. Leah OH 3:48

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And you're right. I really love that you acknowledge that on the surface, this seems so easy. And I think we make these assumptions that of course I'm thinking about people. But then when we take a step back and think about what we actually said or how that was framed or approached, we realize like, nope, those interpersonal relationships were definitely secondary or tertiary or really not considered.

Justin Ricklefs 4:12

Totally. And and as communicators, right? The the the assumption is that that person needs to do a lot of the talking or communicating. But as you, as you know way, way better than I do, the the other side of that is is as or more important on the curiosity side, on the listening side, on the body language side, on the how are you showing up? Are you distracted? And are you looking at your phone? Are you not really engaging with me? And so so much of communication is is that subtle energy awareness, paying attention to someone else other than yourself and what you're trying to communicate.

Dr. Leah OH 4:49

Yeah, yeah. And not not easy to do, right? It's a practice.

Justin Ricklefs 4:53

100%. 100%.

The Hidden Cost Of Detachment

Dr. Leah OH 4:55

And so let's think about this myth of professional detachment. And Justin, you have a book. I love this, give a damn. And it challenges the ideas that leaders should keep this kind of safe and doing quote marks, distance from employees from their team. And I'm wondering, you know, from your experience and from a communicate communicative, what is this kind of tax or cost organizations pay when leaders are prioritizing that politeness or that power distance over curiosity and compassion?

Justin Ricklefs 5:26

It's so interesting that you say this because I I just had a conversation with a good friend yesterday who sat down and had coffee with a, I don't know, I don't remember what star, but this person was a general that taught communication and leadership at Fort Leavenworth with the army. And my friend was floored because he was like, oh my gosh, he talks so much about the transformation around their own leadership expectations. Moving from this, you know, kind of older school command and control and hierarchy and follow your orders, obey, compliant, right? Versus this much more, you know, and I'll use their quotes softer skills of curiosity, compassion, being clear, being vulnerable, being empathetic, being understanding. And and the the phrase that this this general used was amoeba leadership. And that it is required work of the leader to be like an amoeba and adapt to the environment in which the market exists, but also the the environment in which their team resides and exists. And so anyway, to answer you, it's you know, the thesis around the book was this exploration of can care actually be a competitive advantage? And it was kind of kind of like it was a question mark. It was, I mean, I hope it is, I want it to be. Yeah, I think it should be, but can it be? And so I I just started pulling all these strings of you know, former leaders that I loved and learned learned from and followed who who exhibited the phrase give a damn, who cared about me versus the ones who didn't. And I've certainly been in both camps, right? With my own leadership. I've definitely hurt and harmed, and I've definitely benefited and helped grow. But the the thesis was, hey, can we find that, you know, path or that trail in the woods to to determine what's it, what are those components? Not perfect, not always, not forever, but like what are the components that a leader can pay attention to and practice that that can prioritize not either care or money, but both. Yes. Can they both be true? Yes, yeah, 100%. And so, yes, the the book could have been called both hand for sure.

Dr. Leah OH 7:37

Yeah, no, I mean, I just there's so many important points you just raised. And I love that. So we used to say employees, team, no matter how big you are, you adjust to the leader, to this one person who has this title. And now we're saying, like, no, leader, we need you to adapt.

Justin Ricklefs 7:54

And yes.

Dr. Leah OH 7:56

I think to bringing in the language we use, that has been one of I've been in the space a long time. And when I was doing my my PhD work, if you associated love or empathy with leadership, I mean, I would have been laughed out of the room. And now, yeah, I would have been like, this isn't the space for you. And now, I mean, it is becoming so commonplace and and so important, transforming workplaces in a way that is so warming and exciting for me.

Justin Ricklefs 8:23

Yeah, I love that. And and again, I'm on my own journey and path on that. I'm I'm definitely not at the arrival stage. But it it is so interesting to get feedback from from our team, just sharing their experience about it's a culture is a byproduct, it's not something you can like, you know, like mandate. Hey, we have pizza party on Friday, like everybody come to culture day. It's like that's not it. Like culture, culture grows out of like how they experience it. And so I think the the tricky part is, at least for me, that transforming part of leadership is hard work and it's kind of honestly scary work because you got to look at yourself in the mirror and kind of be like, hey, how did I show up and what was it like? And I can't get away with lazy, like forward emails, like please handle thanks, like I got from my bosses back in the day. Oh, yeah. I'm like, please handle what? Like, what does that mean? What do you want me to handle? Anyway, I can go on and on, but but it's it is like the the landscape's changing and people and again, not everybody unfortunately has these options, but the people who have options are being quiet and they're quote unquote complying until the second they have a better option. And that's what we're telling our own daughters as they start to graduate college and think about career. It's like, well, who's the leader? That's literally like my first question. Not what's the company, like who are you going to report to?

Dr. Leah OH 9:43

Yeah, exactly. Yep, exactly. Well, and there's so much you're thinking about mentoring and the modeling, especially when they're on that cusp of going into industry. That's such a pivotal moment. And what what thoughtful guidance that you're giving them? Because you're right, it used to be what's the salary, what's the company?

Justin Ricklefs 10:00

Yep.

Dr. Leah OH 10:01

Like leadership was just whatever. Nice if you had it, but yeah. My dad would always tell me they call it work for a reason. Like you're not supposed to enjoy it. It's work for a reason. So yeah, yeah, very different messaging.

Justin Ricklefs 10:16

Yeah. Our our director of operations at Guild this week, her name's Chelsea. She's been with us for like six years, I think. Yeah. She wrote a LinkedIn post that just said, I hear a lot from our crew, and she tagged me in it. But she's like, our we we say work doesn't have to suck. And it's like a picture of her working at the park while her kids running around doing stuff. And it's and it's like, it doesn't have to suck. Like, yeah, we have to accept that it's like just do this horrible thing until we're 65 and then maybe can retire and enjoy our life. It's yeah, it's terrible.

Dr. Leah OH 10:46

Exactly. Gosh. Well, testament to you and then the work that you're doing, because I can tell you, as a as a leadership scholar, those are not common posts. So thank you for that.

Clarity As A Leadership Practice

Dr. Leah OH 10:59

So, Justin, let's talk about clarity for a minute as a leadership value. And so on the show, and this is something I'm sure you've you've seen through iterations, a lot of times organizations talk about this harmless change, you know, or this new initiative, but it blows up because there isn't intentional planning, there isn't communication associated with it. So, in your work and helping brands find their true voice, what's the most common communication slip that you've seen leaders do that, you know, inadvertently helps them to lose credibility during a brand or culture shift?

Justin Ricklefs 11:33

My gosh, I'm like, I feel like you're reading my diaries a little bit. Clarity was the it was the hardest part of my of the book for me. There's four, I basically unpacked four C's, four components, which are curious, curiosity, compassion, consistency is number four, but then clarity was number three. And, you know, I open that chunk with Renee Brown's like money all-time quote, clear as kind. And then, you know, I unpack like how clarity's been really hard for me, continues to be hard. Because especially as someone who exhibits like future state vision, you know, you're I'm kind of out front, like chopping through the forest, going, hey guys, I think the trail's this way. Come with me. Yeah, yeah. Which is which is the role. Like that's important. But it can't be so detached from reality that and that's when I'm not helpful or clear, it is this really loose vision, quote unquote vision. And I'm like, I don't, I don't understand why everybody doesn't get it exactly. Like, what do you mean you have questions? Like, and I'd get frustrated for a long time. I'd get frustrated with the questions. I'm like, damn it, your questions aren't welcome here. I wouldn't say that, of course.

Dr. Leah OH 12:42

But like, yeah, but yeah, exactly. Yep.

Justin Ricklefs 12:45

My spirit, yeah. My spirit was like, and ultimately that all kind of just gets framed back to me of like, well, the they will they will run hard and fast at wherever you tell them, but you gotta tell them. Yeah. And ultimately, that's this this fearful part of me is like, what if I don't know? Or what if I don't actually have any freaking idea and I'm making it up and guessing? And so, anyhow, that the the clarity chunk was really difficult. And I think to answer your question or try to answer your question, is when you can say a certain thing in a boardroom or put it on a Google slide and be like, oh, this is our strategy. But vision is has to be integrated. That's the EOS language that was so helpful for me. And Rachel Burnett's our COO, and God bless her for enduring such like random vision ideas at times. Because then she's like, well, she can discern and sort it out and help me get clear. And then it's like, oh, got it. This is where the business is headed. And I think the the last comment I'd make is the EOS founder had this quote one time it said, vision without integration is hallucination. And so I think when people don't experience that clarity part, it is they're like, dude, this is crazy. This is a hallucinating event. And so that it is so hard to come back to like simple clarity over and over and over. And I've I've found a lot of life in that now. It used to really frustrate me. Yeah. Now it's like, oh, the gap between vision and performance is always filled with bad stories if it's not clear. And so to to fill that gap with clarity is is work that I still have a lot to do, but it's been really rewarding work.

Dr. Leah OH 14:21

Yeah, I really appreciate your honesty there. Cause I think when you were saying that, I'm like, yes, because sometimes those questions, whether, you know, I've experienced that as a faculty member in leadership roles, where I'm like, why am I getting so frustrated by this? And then recognizing one more step back. Okay, I'm the common denominator. I did not communicate this as clearly if all of these questions are coming up. So I think I've learned to recognize some of that frustration is actually like just directed at myself.

Justin Ricklefs 14:50

A hundred percent.

Dr. Leah OH 14:51

So like, okay, there's an opportunity to do better. How do we clarify this? And the right clarity is it's it's a moving target. And I think that's why it's so hard because everyone, your audience is coming from different perspectives and coming up with those different questions, and you're trying to formulate directions and answers to help them all. And you recognize it's not a one-time message.

Justin Ricklefs 15:15

Yes, yes. I uh I have two two quick thoughts. One is, you know, as as our friend Taylor Swift says, I'm the problem, it's me. Yes, I'm the problem. Yep. But but then to relate it back to the Chiefs' comment, you know, what's what's brilliant about, and I don't know all the ins and outs of how he does his work, but Andy Reid as the head coach, yeah, he very clearly has a system and a structure and a level of expectations and performance for the football team. And what's true is he gives them so much flexibility to operate within that system. They do crazy stuff like ring around the rosy plays, and they they like the players have lots that have a big voice in that system, yeah. But it's not outside of the bounds of what Andy wants and and expects. And and so I think I think of that a little bit sometimes when you when you talk about that clarity, because what is not being said is a leader must dictate and direct every action in the business and be so specific. That's not clarity, that's a that's like micromanagement annoyance. But when you've got like big-hearted leaders who are trying to figure this out, what's what's really unkind is when that person doesn't formulate, okay, what is our system? What's our expectation? What are the standards here?

Dr. Leah OH 16:29

Exactly.

Justin Ricklefs 16:30

And when you don't clarify those standards, everybody loses.

Dr. Leah OH 16:33

Yeah. Yeah, it's because it's like setting up the guardrails, but then giving them agency within that system. Yeah, 100% beautiful leadership there, right? So let's think about curiosity now.

Lead With A Question

Dr. Leah OH 16:47

And I love that you advocate for this. And I love that you connected it with listening earlier. Because it's not something that I have thought about before, but you're right. A lot of times when we approach listening, it is through curiosity. And so, Justin, I'm wondering for this title leader who feels the pressure to always be on, to have all of these answers. You know, what is one practical pause and pivot that you found? What is that step they can take, whether it's mid-meeting, to move from that mindset that, you know, the old control mindset to one that is bounded in curiosity?

Justin Ricklefs 17:20

This is as practical and pragmatic as it gets. Every single meeting and work conversation lead with a question. It's just like saturated into your every fiber and being. And it's so simple to show up and talk and say, like, here's what we're doing, here's where we're going, here's what's on the agenda block. But like as simple as like, how are you?

Dr. Leah OH 17:42

Yeah.

Justin Ricklefs 17:43

Or as or as as deep as like, hey, we're working on this project. Like, what are you seeing that I'm not? Right. Yeah. I mean, yeah, but it's and it's in our core values because we want it to want to behave that way at guild. We want to not just believe it, but behave that way. Yeah. And so we say lead with compassionate curiosity. And and it is fundamental to understanding what they see and their perspective. Because I've, again, on the opposite side, have blown it so often when I just assume even without like a quote unquote bad experience, I'll just assume I know the way. And just like, hey, this is what we're doing, this is where we're going, blah, like jump on board. Yeah. And then somebody's like, oh, wait, have you considered this? And it's like, no, actually, I didn't even think about that. Not once. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And so just that literally that the pause and pivot is ask a question. Yeah. At least one. Like sometimes there's a lot, but like at least fundamentally, every single meeting, whether it's with a client, a colleague, a boss, like just make it your practice to ask the first question. Yeah. And it's incredible what happens with connection because then, you know, you you leave those encounters in in the you know social world where someone has asked you a bunch of questions and you're like, oh my gosh, I Dr. Leah is super cool. Like, how cool is she? And Dr. Leah didn't even hardly talk. She just asked a bunch of questions, right? So it's really crazy and awesome how how connections form through curiosity.

Dr. Leah OH 19:08

Yeah. And I love then you're prompting engagement, like you're building that into your workplace because people want to be seen. They, you, you know, you hired them for a reason. And for a lot of folks, that invitation is what they need to start leading in their own ways.

Justin Ricklefs 19:24

100%.

Dr. Leah OH 19:25

So love that. And I also was thinking, too, that it's really brilliant that you partner compassion and curiosity. Because sometimes curiosity alone, that can be perceived as a difficult trait, right? I was thinking the devil's advocate, someone who's doing really important work, who's helping to guard against groupthink, but pretty quickly you can become, you know, like, oh, do we have to invite that one? Do we have to invite them to the meeting? Right. But when we bundle curiosity and compassion, that is a that is a different type of communicator that leads to a different type of conversation.

Justin Ricklefs 20:02

Super cool. That's an interesting observation. Yeah, I didn't, I didn't put that together. That's really smart. Yeah. And because we've all probably experienced the leader who is like peppering you with questions, like an interrogation. Yep. Or an investigation. Like that's not that's not compassionate curiosity. That's like critical curiosity.

Dr. Leah OH 20:21

Yeah, exactly.

Justin Ricklefs 20:23

So that's interesting that you say that. That's really cool.

Consistency That Builds Trust

Dr. Leah OH 20:25

Yeah, yeah. That's what came to mind. And so let's keep working with these C's. Let's think about consistency now. And so your framework highlights consistency as a pillar of modern leadership. And I couldn't agree more. And I'm wondering, Justin, from your perspective, how can that leader restructure their daily kind of that set list of interactions to ensure these messages are actually connecting, they're landing rather than just feeling like here's another black box of status updates or like just kind of speaking at someone instead of with them.

Justin Ricklefs 20:58

Yeah, it's it's consistency is critical. And it's anything in life that you do small little things over time. They compound and they grow. And when you, you know, all of us have done the like, hey, here's the brand new, like fancy way to wear a weighted vest and work out. And then you do it like twice and you don't ever do it again. I wore one this morning. That's why it was on my mind. Yes. But it's like, oh, and then you do this other thing, and then let's hop to this diet trend. And then, like, oh, we're drinking like crazy water with salt in it. And you just you just hop like to all these little micro moments, as opposed to these what's actually true and has been for generations, is just like simple behaviors over the long periods of time that win and they they grow and they compound and they become, yeah, as our friend Corey Sheer would say, trustworthy. And then you can show up in a way that's like, oh, I know how she's gonna treat me today. I know how he's gonna treat me today. And when he blows it and says something dumb and you know, hot headed, he's gonna. At some point, realize that he was an a-hole and he's gonna come back and say sorry. Yep. Right? Like that's consistency. And and I relate it to building a I relate it to building a fire. And it takes forever to start. And you have to do all this stuff and you gotta like blow on it and get it going and figure it out. And then you have to tend to it. You can't just walk away and leave it. You tend to it. And when the the best campfires, when people gather around them, somebody has tended to the fire consistently. And that's where I kind of think that a lot of times leaders they look for, me included, you look for a quick tip, a super, you know, conference to give you motivation. You're like, oh, I read this one book on leadership, I'm good. Yeah. It's like, no, bro, like this is a yeah, yeah, this is a long, this is a long journey of leadership that ultimately does grow and impacts people and provides shelters, fire, and all that stuff anyway. But it's like you got to do it for the long haul.

Dr. Leah OH 22:55

Yeah, exactly. And I was just thinking there's this when I think about commitment and consistency, we we teach it as like it grows legs. So when you're committed to that weight invest, then you're more likely to, you know, integrate a healthy, you know, drinking water ahead of time or after. Yes. And then when you're doing that, I'm probably gonna pick, you know, a healthier option for lunch than you might have if you hadn't done this work. And so I think too, when you are showing up and you're committed to being this curious, compassionate leader, that shows in those connections that you're forming. And like you said, we all have those moments when the words come out before the brain has thought. But if we know we're gonna do the repair work, right, those relationships are gonna stay shored up.

Justin Ricklefs 23:42

Yes, yes, so well said. I I wrote down gross legs. I think that's so it's so true. Like it does. And it starts to, you know, instead of a shame cycle or some weird like other. It's a virtue cycle. It starts to come down the other direction to create these these moments and these flywheels where people are like, all right, I know, kind of understand how this is gonna work. Yeah, his curiosity is for my good, his compassion is for my good. His clarity is not that clear yet, but he's working on it, right? And then they they understand, like, okay, that can be that can be trusted. And I've got yeah, lots of work to do there, but that's growth's legs is a cool phrase for you.

Dr. Leah OH 24:19

Yeah, yeah, right. So you start to we want to be consistent. We don't want to be the person that we're like, ooh, who's showing up today? So when we make those commitments, yeah, they can, like you said, really powerful. Not easy, especially in the beginning, to make that commitment. But yeah, we can uh we can do some good work that way.

Justin Ricklefs 24:39

Yeah, I was talking to our son. Yeah. Oh, I'm sorry, go ahead.

Dr. Leah OH 24:42

No, no, no, no, please go ahead. Tell me.

Justin Ricklefs 24:44

You're talking to I was just uh my our son last night, and he's having a for a 16-year-old, a a difficult conversation with a with a superior coach. And it was just this kind of simple moment of like, I was so proud of him because he's he's gonna do it. And I was like, bro, it's gonna take literally 10 seconds of courage. 10 seconds, and you you're gonna feel some pressure, and he's gonna try to talk you out of your your point of view, and like that's coming. But think about once you're through that 10 seconds of awkward courage, on the other side of that is you know, not to be too dramatic, but it's like your liberation. You don't have to play the sport anymore because he wants to, you he like wants to be done, yeah, and he's clear on it. Yeah, and and it's just a really cool moment. It's like, man, it just we I think we sometimes think of these huge, crazy things. It's like it's 10 seconds it's a 10 second conversation.

Dr. Leah OH 25:35

Exactly. Yeah, yeah, you're right. And it's all that build up ahead of time, but what a powerful moment for your son. And then once we do that, I'm like, hey, remember when you did that hard thing? You can do that. Yeah, that's so cool. So let's think about storytelling

Storytelling That Employees Believe

Dr. Leah OH 25:52

now. And I think this is something we've kind of been hinting at and dancing. And I know that part of what you do, you help brands align their purpose with their messaging. And I'm wondering, how does a leader use communication to kind of get rid of this old stagnant company narrative and replace it with a new story that employees actually believe in and want to be a part of?

Justin Ricklefs 26:15

Good night. Yes, I love that question so much. The story is the oldest form of sales. Like we didn't make it up. Yeah, it's story is the way we find ourselves as humans is in story. And it's not just sales, but we're talking about like a corporate context and how we help from like a brand of positioning standpoint. Yeah. And so we we get companies that come to us and they're they're they're begging really of like, hey, we've tried this, we've tried this, like we got a new logo, our website looks awesome, our team is really great. And when they they haven't realized that momentum or that kind of compounding gain. And and for us, it it always comes back to what is the strategic story you're telling? Because if you don't tell the story, somebody is going to tell it for you. Because that's what we do. We're storytellers. And we find ourselves in story. And so are they all true? No. Are they all amazing? No. But we find ourselves in them and we'll we'll fill in the gap. If we don't, if we aren't encouraged to believe a certain way, we will fill in the gap with our own story. That's just what we do. And so on a consumer side, we'll encounter these messages and they're incessant and they're so noisy. And almost all of them are about how these companies have really cool products to sell. Right? Yep. Yeah. And the the consumer's like, I'm not a mean person, but I don't care about your product because I care about my pain, my frustration, my life, my relational challenges, my parenting struggle, my money, my desires, my physical health, all this stuff. This is what I care about as a consumer. And so it's, and again, it's it's obviously not this simple, but the the turning of that prism to go like, hey, how can as a brand, how can you tell the story of your customer, not your company? And it's almost like we're like companies are out looking in the woods through binoculars and they're looking the wrong way. And they're like, where are all the deer? And you're like, bro, flip it over. Like you don't have the you don't have the hero in focus. And so, but the same, what what's what's been crazy about the work that we've started to figure out these last several years is it's not just an external message, it's an internal story. And it starts there. And in fact, like that's where purpose is lived out. And it's like values, you can hang values on the wall, but if they're not lived out, if they're not activated, and we call it the heartbeat of the brand. So if that heartbeat isn't clear and compelling and isn't strong internally first, then none of it really matters. You're gonna have the coolest marketing in the world if you don't have an internal culture that believes in this story, it all falls apart.

Dr. Leah OH 29:00

Yeah. Yeah, that's so powerful. And I love that. I mean, it's such thoughtful communication. I mean, like, who's receiving this message and what is it that they're looking for? And both as the customer as and the employees, like your brand ambassadors having to be part of that heartbeat.

Justin Ricklefs 29:17

Yes, absolutely. Yeah, it's and it all starts on the inside. It all does. And that's as we've as we've gotten clear on our own, our own positioning in guild is like, oh, this this aligns with how we've done it ourselves.

Dr. Leah OH 29:31

Yeah.

Justin Ricklefs 29:31

So it's been really cool.

Dr. Leah OH 29:33

Such a powerful way too to connect with your clients and be like, we understand we're we're monitoring and growing this the same way.

Justin Ricklefs 29:42

Yes, very much.

Proving The ROI Of Caring

Dr. Leah OH 29:43

Yeah. So Justin, let's think about the ROI of caring. You know, you're you're the central thesis of your book. And while I I see the the leadership field shifting in huge and very optimistic ways, there are still a number of skeptical executives who just the spreadsheets, right? Or the scoreboard, what are these quarterly metrics? So for for these folks out there, you know, how have you found how do you communicate that tangible ROI on invest investing in, you know, the work of compassion, of communication for healthy workplace cultures. How do you make that sell?

Justin Ricklefs 30:19

Yeah, I I need some help with research down the road because this I want that I want evidence. I want like, oh, this is exactly how this plays out.

Dr. Leah OH 30:29

Yeah.

Justin Ricklefs 30:30

So we can talk about research down the road. But what what I what I want to communicate the most is this story of one of our clients at Guild who is a multi-billion dollar manufacturing business that has multiple locations across the country. Okay. So call it corp, like and they did this work, really brave, courageous work of talking and getting the perspective of all of their production level employees. Okay. Okay. And and and to to give to give a distinction, before they did this work, they used to call the management team salary and the production team hourly. And even that, okay, this is like a yeah, I see your face. Like even if that should be a good thing. Yeah, broke, broke it, broke, it broke the the chain of what these kind of old school mindsets were. Yeah. So anyway, they asked thousands of people their perspective on like, how are we doing? What can we learn better? What do you need? What do you want? The number one thing in the in their perspectives in their survey that came back, the number one thing was I want my supervisor to know my first name. I want you to call me by my name. Yeah. And so they literally for a long time, the supervisor had had to say, like, I actually don't know who your name is. What is your name? Yeah. Yeah. Will you put your name on your helmet, your hard hat for a while so that I can when I see you, I can call you Leah instead of Kate.

Dr. Leah OH 32:00

Yeah.

Justin Ricklefs 32:00

Right? And so that took a while. It wasn't like overnight.

Dr. Leah OH 32:04

Oh, yeah.

Justin Ricklefs 32:05

But but we're but in 2026, and this is the point of your question. They are fully staffed. They have a wait list for employees. Wow. They're and it's not, it doesn't have to be like this dramatic, but they are destroying their competition. Yeah. Because their competition is still in this old school mindset. And it's like, that works at a freaking production facility. Of course, it's gonna work at your restaurant, at your white-collar business, at your professional services company, at your law firm. It's gonna work there, of course. If it can work at and and you know, on a broader sc on a more public scale, like you see Chick-fil-A and hit the founder of Chick-fil-A had a quote that said, care and commerce could coexist. And they've built their entire business around care. And like, yeah, they sell chicken sandwiches and waffle fries, but they they are they're head and shoulders economically above their competitive set.

Dr. Leah OH 33:00

Yeah.

Justin Ricklefs 33:00

And they're only open six days a week.

Dr. Leah OH 33:02

Yeah, yeah, exactly. And you know, and you think about not just having a value poster on the wall, but living your values, right? That's what we've seen when they're like, nope, we're not open on Sundays.

Justin Ricklefs 33:14

Yes, yes, yeah, and you're gonna get a pleasant experience when you when you buy the food. You're gonna get someone that says my pleasure instead of like nothing.

Dr. Leah OH 33:23

Yeah, exact, exactly. Yeah. Wow, that yeah, that the story of your client, I had goosebumps, because you're right. So I think so often people think the solution has to be new tech or brand new overhaul, like it has to be this lengthy, expensive investment. And you're like saying someone's name, knowing their name, addressing them by that name is so powerful.

Justin Ricklefs 33:48

Yes, because the the stats that I do know are 81% of United States employees dread Monday. Legit. Like dread is a heavy emotion. Yeah, it's like dreading work, like that's crazy. Yeah, and then but the inverse is only 39 feel cared for. And it's like, that's the gap. Like the gap to close is how do we close that gap? And and our client did it and they have to keep doing it. It's not a one-time thing, but it's like you gotta say, hey, Leah, hey, Leah, hey, Leah, every morning when you see Leah, right? And it's like, well, of course Leah wants to keep working there because she feels known and understood and valued and get like somebody gives a damn about me here. Thank you.

Dr. Leah OH 34:27

Exactly. Yeah,

Final Challenges For Leaders And Teams

Dr. Leah OH 34:29

yeah. So, Justin, last two questions for you. And this is how we end all episodes of the communicative leader, and they're intertwined. So it is the first part, you know, what advice or tip or challenge do you want to lead our leave with our titled leaders? And then the second part is what is that advice, tip, or challenge for our employees across all ranks?

Justin Ricklefs 34:54

It's as you've heard, it's hard for me to be concise. So I think, I think for the for the for the quote unquote leader already, yeah, I would say that it is your job to be on a compassionate curiosity crusade. When you say, like, oh, I have an open door policy or anybody can come see me, like they're not going to because they're scared, they're intimidated, they're afraid of you. Go to them and seek their opinion. And yes, does it take more time and more courage? You bet. But like the payoff is so freaking good. So I would say go on a compassionate curiosity crusade. Yeah. And then and then to the to the team member, what I would say is you are already a leader. Leader's not a title or an office, it is a invitation. And and for you to right now today give a damn about yourself and and have some oop and some gumption, as my high school football would say, coach would say, and and believe that if you give a damn about yourself, not in a selfish way, but in a put the oxygen mask on first kind of way, you're able to then show up as a leader to others. And people are corporations are begging for someone to step up and take the lead. Like at all sizes. At our team of seven, it's like, hey, all of y'all are leaders. I don't care what your title is. Like, figure it out, help us out. We got plenty of problems to solve.

Dr. Leah OH 36:21

Yeah. Yeah. And I love that connection with leadership and caring about yourself. Cause I think so often people underestimate what they have to give in their impact on others and their ability to influence. And I think that's such a neat gift to equate it that way is that leading is caring about yourself.

Justin Ricklefs 36:40

Yes. My friend Brad Hill says, take up all the damn space you need.

Dr. Leah OH 36:45

Yeah. Yep.

Justin Ricklefs 36:46

Take up the space. Take up the space.

Dr. Leah OH 36:49

Exactly. Justin, this has been such a fun conversation. I've learned so much. I want to applaud the work that you and your team do. You're you're making a difference. You are helping to transform. Like you shared, you have kids who will be entering these spaces soon. And it just makes me so hopeful.

Justin Ricklefs 37:08

Thank you. I've enjoyed the conversation. You've helped me a great deal, and I've learned a ton and uh really salute the work you do and help shape future communicators and leaders for sure. It's so necessary.

Dr. Leah OH 37:21

All right, my friends. That wraps up our conversation today. Until next time, communicate with intention and lead with purpose. I'm looking forward to chatting with you again soon on the Communicative Leader.