Embark on a journey into the heart of mental health as we sit down with Steve, a therapist with a wealth of experience. Unpacking the complexities of therapy versus psychiatry, we examine the landscape of mental wellness amid the unprecedented times of a global pandemic. Steve enlightens us on the heightened demand for therapeutic services and the critical distinction between medication and talk therapy as we navigate the often-overlooked intricacies of our mental landscape.
As the world grapples with the new normal, the conversation shifts to the social and psychological reverberations felt by our younger generations. Steve pulls back the curtain on how the pandemic's push towards remote learning and social isolation has left indelible marks on our kids. His expertise shines a light on the delicate interplay between therapeutic guidance and psychiatric care, emphasizing the importance of creating safe, judgment-free zones in therapy, especially when discussing substance use.
Closing on a personal note, Steve shares an inspiring tale of reconnection with a former client, reminding us of the profound bonds forged in the realm of mental health care. He advocates for the sanctity of work-life balance, especially for those within caregiving professions, and underscores the necessity of personal support systems. This episode is a rallying call for empathy, understanding, and the shared pursuit of well-being in a world where mental health is paramount. Join us for a heartfelt exploration of the human psyche and the paths we tread in search of balance.
Please Subscribe/Follow the Cottman, Crawford & The Jersey Guy Podcast.
Follow us on Instagram and Facebook.
https://linktr.ee/ccandnjguy
Email us all your feedback, comments & suggestions at: CCandNJGuy@Gmail.com
Embark on a journey into the heart of mental health as we sit down with Steve, a therapist with a wealth of experience. Unpacking the complexities of therapy versus psychiatry, we examine the landscape of mental wellness amid the unprecedented times of a global pandemic. Steve enlightens us on the heightened demand for therapeutic services and the critical distinction between medication and talk therapy as we navigate the often-overlooked intricacies of our mental landscape.
As the world grapples with the new normal, the conversation shifts to the social and psychological reverberations felt by our younger generations. Steve pulls back the curtain on how the pandemic's push towards remote learning and social isolation has left indelible marks on our kids. His expertise shines a light on the delicate interplay between therapeutic guidance and psychiatric care, emphasizing the importance of creating safe, judgment-free zones in therapy, especially when discussing substance use.
Closing on a personal note, Steve shares an inspiring tale of reconnection with a former client, reminding us of the profound bonds forged in the realm of mental health care. He advocates for the sanctity of work-life balance, especially for those within caregiving professions, and underscores the necessity of personal support systems. This episode is a rallying call for empathy, understanding, and the shared pursuit of well-being in a world where mental health is paramount. Join us for a heartfelt exploration of the human psyche and the paths we tread in search of balance.
Please Subscribe/Follow the Cottman, Crawford & The Jersey Guy Podcast.
Follow us on Instagram and Facebook.
https://linktr.ee/ccandnjguy
Email us all your feedback, comments & suggestions at: CCandNJGuy@Gmail.com
Do it Cotman Crawford and the Jersey Guy podcast. ["the Jersey Guy Podcast"].
Speaker 2:Hey everybody, Kenny.
Speaker 1:Cotman, lewis Crawford, and I'm Tom Rammage, the Jersey Guy.
Speaker 2:Hello, hello, hello. How's everybody doing this week?
Speaker 3:Good you, Good man.
Speaker 2:Same motion this Friday. You know me, thank God, it's Friday Road. It's Friday man.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it comes in our enough, even though we just came off a four day or a three day weekend.
Speaker 2:Well you did, yeah, no, we had to work. Oh, you had to, yeah, no. But like it's still three days, four days is enough, yeah Right. Well, it was cool because my supervisor was on vacation so I was like, yes, nice, chilling. Then she came back yesterday so I'm like I don't know.
Speaker 3:How are you, steve? I'm wonderful, I'm wonderful, glad to be here.
Speaker 1:Thanks, so we have Steve here. Yes, he's here. He is a Lerifist, a friend of mine. He's a Lerifist, yeah.
Speaker 3:And I figured we'd invite him over and just have a podcast to talk about therapy and whatever questions we got and everything.
Speaker 2:So yeah definitely.
Speaker 3:So yeah, you stuck with us. Yeah, I started off. So my question was as far as, did you start off right away in doing therapy or was it something that you were working at a place and you found it kind of brought you that way to do that?
Speaker 4:Well, when I was going to, when I was graduating in high school, I wasn't like really a college guy, so I started. My first job was working in group homes with underprivileged kids from broken homes and stuff like that. Excuse me, because I had a friend who grew up in the system.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 4:And from there I started.
Speaker 4:When I went to college, I started taking psychology courses and things like that, still never knowing what I was going to do or what direction I wanted to go into. But then I started having some of my own problems and I started seeing one of my teachers who was a therapist, a psychologist, and I said, hey, this is kind of cool, I like this, I like helping people. And so then I finished up college, graduate school, and got my master's degree and worked for agencies for a bunch of years, because that's all I was going to be allowed to do, based on just like what was out there for me. And it wasn't until 2006 where they came up with the license that I have as a it's called a licensed mental health counselor, which they have in all the states now. And I kind of rewarded people who had master's degrees in psychology that weren't social workers or didn't go on for PhDs, and so I got my license and from there I started. I started a practice, but for 30 years I worked in a county mental health and social service system.
Speaker 4:So I've been on my own. I've been private practice for 16 years now.
Speaker 3:Nice, that's very good Full time for two and a half years, so it sounds like you kind of you kind of already knew the way it sounds that you were already going in that direction, based on what you you know how it started off for you. That's good.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, I knew. I always knew I wasn't. I wasn't a suit and tie guy. I didn't want to work in for IBM and stuff like that Back in the day.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it wasn't my style yeah.
Speaker 4:So I just, and I just liked helping people, it was kind of my thing.
Speaker 2:So it's good. Yeah, that's cool. Yeah, cause I used to work with foster care kids and stuff like that too. A long time ago I worked at DFY and.
Speaker 2:I worked in group homes and stuff like that. So I understand it's crazy because and though this isn't real quick it's different when you're working with kids, cause it's like you just want to, like you just feel it from the heart to go and help them out and talk to them. So, yeah, that that I mean I do miss that part of you know working what I do, but yeah, it's cool. So now, what was the difference? Well, what is the difference between a therapist and a psychiatrist?
Speaker 4:Well, a psychiatrist is a medical doctor. They've gone to medical school and they've specialized in psychiatry, whereas therapists different levels like my level is probably the lowest level of the therapist, of a licensed therapist that you can get and so there's professional counselors, or licensed mental health counselors, which is what I am there's social workers, there's psychologists, sids they're they're the psychologists and the SIDs are on a doctor level on a master's level.
Speaker 4:But we all kind of do the same thing. You know we talk to people, we help. Help with problems, help find solutions. Doctors, the psychiatrists, prescribe medication.
Speaker 2:Yeah, right, yeah one.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I had an interesting question. Yeah, so you know, in the last few years, ever since, like 2020 pandemic, just stuff has just gotten so out of control, wild have you been seeing as, like a, as a, as a, as a therapist, have you been seeing like an influx in people having some mental health issues from all the just just the craziness of the world right now?
Speaker 4:Yeah, I mean I've thought my take on the whole stuff with COVID obviously we're.
Speaker 2:we use the C word yeah.
Speaker 4:It all started with COVID and I always just felt that, like once that stuff started happening, that it really just kind of brought out people's awareness of their own mortality, their own frailty, because, like stuff that we didn't always worry about, like where are we going to get food from? Like am I going to have my job? You know who's going to die tomorrow and the next day and the next day kind of brought that up and there was a lot, of, a lot of fears that people started experiencing from that. And I think it affected excuse me, when people started working from home, I think. I mean I don't know if you guys work remote. I mean I think remote is, I think remote was awful for the kids.
Speaker 4:It took them out of, you know, the social socialization. Yeah, Um you know, you know from elementary school through high school, like they're supposed to go every day and see their friends and play and just kind of bond and have that interaction. And that was kind of taken away from them and they didn't have any. There was no resources for them to deal with whatever was going on with them and we didn't understand, like parents didn't understand what was going on.
Speaker 4:I know I didn't even you know, being a therapist, excuse me. I remember my daughter was like struggling at school and she's really smart. My younger one and I was like what's your problem? Why aren't you doing your work? All you gotta do is wake up at eight o'clock, roll out of bed, start doing your work. You don't even have to change, you can wear your pajamas. She was dad. You don't get it, man. The thing is, this is my room, it's not my classroom. I hate being in my room now. We painted her. We had to paint her room. She asked us to paint it.
Speaker 4:We painted it like dark gray because that was the mood that she was in and you know.
Speaker 4:I used to wanna come home and get on the computer and go do gaming with my friends and stuff like that. She goes I hate the computer now because I gotta sit all day. Not only do I gotta sit all day and do class, then I gotta sit for two hours and do homework, so by the time I'm done I don't wanna go gaming and do anything like that. And we just didn't understand. We thought it was easy for them.
Speaker 3:A whole routine was just for them.
Speaker 4:Yeah, so you know like I know, I had to work remotely from before I retired and I don't work there anymore, so I could say it. I just manipulated my time as best as I could, and so I knew how to do it, but 12 year old kids don't know how to do that Right. I love that.
Speaker 3:Right and for Ron, you think well, this is great.
Speaker 2:Hello, yeah.
Speaker 3:You know, at first, when you were a kid, you think because you get the snow days and stuff like that. You know you're like I'll be home for like three days, whatever, but when it just on and on like that it just I'm for a child. I would guess that would be not, and especially if you can't go anywhere and do anything.
Speaker 4:You couldn't go out with your friend, you couldn't do anything, and even then they took snow days away from them. They'd have a snow day and they'd go. Today we're going to be remote.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 4:We told Arcus screw that, you're staying home. No school today.
Speaker 1:Right, yeah, luckily in my town they do snow days, they don't do remote.
Speaker 4:Yeah man, New Jersey right, New Jersey, yeah Right.
Speaker 2:That's wild. I mean, like I said, because my daughter, the youngest, she had to do remote and whatnot, and I'm saying the same thing you said, like what you roll out of bed and right here you don't have to do your hair or nothing Like just yeah, it makes sense like the social part is complete.
Speaker 3:You need that Right. I mean it's important to have that socialization and everything.
Speaker 4:They're limited anyway with technology, because all they do is text and group chats and everything is like we're all over 30, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, no, no.
Speaker 2:I was telling them we used to go out and play Right, yeah, and I'm going to door, hey, hey, hey, can you come out and play? Can you come out and play? And nowadays they you know, it's like what are you?
Speaker 4:you walk into their room and like, what are you doing? It's gonna make a difference.
Speaker 2:I'm hanging out with my friends yeah, like what? Everybody here. So they lost that.
Speaker 4:and then they lost the one place that they had people their age To physically be and that was taken away from them and it still affects them now because you have 16, 17, 18, you know. So don't know how to talk to people. They don't know how to walk in a room and just like, like, just jump right in and get involved with stuff.
Speaker 2:So it was a big. It was a big big impact, yeah, so Wow, so they still. So you, some of your clients, are still dealing with that.
Speaker 4:I think most kids are.
Speaker 2:I think you walk in any high school you walk in a junior high school.
Speaker 4:High school you walk into people between the ages of what? 10 and 25 and they still. There's still that impact of that.
Speaker 3:They're still recovering from it.
Speaker 4:Oh wow, that's. That's crazy. You get used to not talking to anybody.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but I mean so, was that a COVID thing, or would it be more? That is just you know.
Speaker 4:Oh technology.
Speaker 2:Yeah, just technology thing.
Speaker 4:I think COVID, I think COVID just made it worse, made it like a hundred times worse, so they didn't know how to socialize that much anyway.
Speaker 1:Right, and it's just. It's just. The one place that they did socialize, it was God.
Speaker 4:And then, even when they went back to school, there was like, it was like masks, so you couldn't see anybody. And there was like there was Some partitions.
Speaker 1:Partitions are limited.
Speaker 4:the number of kids in the class, or it was there was no touching Right.
Speaker 3:Stand on this spot Like I mean. I don't remember a high school junior. Well, put an empty desk. You're pushing your friends, you're screwing around with everybody, right.
Speaker 3:So, and that was all gone, that was all taken away from them Because I would just think about it when we went to school. I know we were playing punch ball in the school yard before we went into class. You know, depending where it was junior high school or whatever, or you hanging out on campus before you went to class, you know, I think that was all like taken away from them.
Speaker 1:I think my son lucked out, though, because he you were still young enough. Because he started kindergarten last year.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, so it probably wasn't probably wasn't bought out.
Speaker 2:Yeah yeah yeah.
Speaker 1:So he, just like the year before, he was in preschool and they just started going back to the oh, nice yeah that worked out good for them. And then you know 2022, we started kindergarten, you know.
Speaker 4:And now everything's normal.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they play again. Yeah, they play, yeah.
Speaker 4:It's like you know, I remember the first time we got to fly when we didn't have to wear masks and all that stuff. It was like who are these people? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I can tell.
Speaker 3:I can tell what everybody looks like.
Speaker 4:Right, you know it's crazy.
Speaker 3:It's a yeah, I mean, that was, I think, for me I had. We worked through it Right, so it wasn't like we had to stay home, we were on the road all the time and then I just working, we had letters that they gave us hey, these guys are allowed to be out because they're taking care of a certain, you know right need for the supermarket industry. So if we won't say who, but yeah. So I don't think it really affected us that much, except that we had to wear the mask.
Speaker 4:Yeah, that was it right, but I didn't mind that so much to be honest with you, but it affected you when you went in to do your job because there was nobody there.
Speaker 3:Actually no.
Speaker 4:The supermarket, I mean the supermarkets were. Days were still kind of busy.
Speaker 3:Okay.
Speaker 1:Right, I mean it was you were looking for toilet paper. You know what it was?
Speaker 3:Yeah, and it trust me. It was so funny walking in and not seeing all that on the shelves either. It was nuts.
Speaker 1:You know we would, they would. There would be lines people try to get in like cause they would, they would open the. They opened the stores later, like they opened it earlier for people who were older, Like or handicapped responders. And then and then like seven o'clock so, and then when it came in, like everybody would just, and now I think people like going to some markets cause it was there- it was there, wow, especially the older people, cause they always went early in the morning.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but people in general, that's people, were working. It was the only time to leave the house, right?
Speaker 4:So See, I found shopping really traumatic.
Speaker 1:And.
Speaker 4:I love to. I love doing. I do the grocery shopping at home and I go up and down every aisle oh, this is on sale. I got my. But during COVID it was like I thought I was walking in a war zone. You go up and down the aisles cause he had to go, yeah, and there was like it was scary. Here we are and like I you know I live in, I live in Rockland County and like going in these supermarkets and there's no food.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 4:It's like a it's like post-apocalyptic Right there's no food or anything like that and and and like what the hell is going on here and driving up cause I was a. I was a. Why was I allowed to go out? What did they call us?
Speaker 2:Essential Essential.
Speaker 4:And I always saw people in person. I didn't do the remote therapy. I didn't like it I had we used where my office was. There was a. There was a meeting room in the for other cause, there was an office building and nobody else was there, so I would sit, you know, in the in the meeting room, 15, 20 feet from somebody and spray after everybody and do all that, but driving home back and forth was like scary.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was. You can drive home like a hundred miles an hour Because there's nobody on the road. Yeah, nobody on the road. Yeah.
Speaker 4:And I said save lives, stay home.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that was scary shit to me yeah.
Speaker 4:That always freaked me out.
Speaker 3:I have a, I have a good question and in reference to patients, have that had anybody where you weren't able to help or you had to say, hey, listen, I think this is going to be better for you going to this individual or you might need medication, you know, kind of thing Like, in other words, say is, do you ever run into that situation when you find somebody like, okay, I'm not, this person's not, you know it's not working for them for whatever reason?
Speaker 4:Yeah, I'm real comfortable with my skills and I know if I can't handle something and I have no problems telling somebody I don't think I'm the right person for you. Right, and even, like on the initial phone call, if it sounds like it's something that I may not be able to deal with, but the person is really desperate and they can't find anybody and I just happen to have a spot, I'll let them know right up front. I'll see them for a couple of times and but if I don't think it's something that I'm gonna be able to help with, I'm not gonna continue to see you. And if somebody is in need of medications I mean again, I'm not a psychiatrist- I'll tell them.
Speaker 4:I think it's best that they should at least have a psychiatrist, or in order to continue to see me, they have to see a psychiatrist.
Speaker 3:Right, so they could do both.
Speaker 4:Oh yeah, you can see just like how insurance works and stuff like that. You can see a psychiatrist and a therapist. You just can't. You can't see like more than one therapist. So you can do like a repeat of services, that's all. So, insurance won't pay for somebody to see me and somebody to see another therapist who provides the same service.
Speaker 3:Right. But if it's a psychiatrist, because it's a step higher or lower, whatever it is, it's just the whole billing system that they do Right, that makes sense.
Speaker 4:I mean, if the person is paying cash, they can see 100 people.
Speaker 1:they can just not tell anybody. So I've had that, I've had that happening so.
Speaker 2:Right now. Do you get to speak to a therapist? I'm sorry. Do you, as a therapist, get to speak to a psychiatrist when you're dealing with any one client to make sure that they're mentally Are?
Speaker 1:you thinking of like the Sopranos when the therapist talks to?
Speaker 2:us. Oh yeah, I wasn't thinking that, but okay, so she sees, yeah, are you?
Speaker 4:talking about me, me personally myself.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I know a therapist as in general, because, like I said, I know like when I was working and I said in foster care and stuff, we used to have meetings to make sure that the kids were okay and stuff like that. So it'd be the therapist, the case worker and things like that. So you having adult clients, do you get to speak to the psychiatrist to say, listen Lou, isn't he needs help with this, or I'm having this kind of issue? Is he giving you the same thing to help?
Speaker 4:Ideally, that's what you're supposed to do Right and usually you have the person sign a release and you're supposed to coordinate services. Sometimes it doesn't always work out that way or sometimes it's just verifying that, hey, is this person still going to see you? Are they on their medication and stuff like that.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 4:But there's, yeah, I mean you're supposed to do that.
Speaker 2:You're supposed to coordinate services. Yeah, got it. Yeah, cause I always thought about that, cause he could be saying one thing, or she could be saying one thing to you and then something different over here and maybe getting the wrong meds or just not getting the assistance as a whole that they might need, you know, and I also try and like to let everybody they see be like, personally accountable for their own treatment. Okay.
Speaker 4:So if somebody is talking about something that's not working, I would suggest that they talk to their psychiatrist about it. Maybe just medications.
Speaker 4:One of the things you know I work 30 years, 30 plus years, in a county system, so I don't I made a decision privately is I don't see people who are coming through the court systems, Everybody who walks in anybody who walks in my door is coming because they want to come and talk to somebody, and even like the teenagers that I get, who sometimes they're coming because their parents want them to come, I will sit with them and the parent and let them know right off the bat that I am your child's therapist.
Speaker 4:What we talk about is between us unless they tell me that they're gonna hurt themselves or they're suicidal. I'm not gonna share anything with you unless they want me to do that, and if they don't want to come to see me, I will not see them. I don't. You can go and take them to somebody else. I just don't ever want to be part of like the negative experience for somebody. I don't want a kid who doesn't want to be in therapy now but probably is gonna need it down the road to be like now I'm not going to therapy because I had to see that guy last night.
Speaker 4:So I don't like to do that. So cause everybody at some point everybody should talk to somebody. So, it's just, I just want to be part of the good experience.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that works that makes sense.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that makes sense, absolutely, oh yeah.
Speaker 4:And then I don't get annoying phone calls from parents, so that works out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's the plus right there.
Speaker 3:Do you think that? But the kind of thing you're seeing more often now because of what we just talked about with COVID and everything, is it more of a depression, really a lot more than what you used to be.
Speaker 4:A lot of depression and anxiety, anxiety yeah, which kind of go hand in hand with just everything that's going on.
Speaker 3:Right, and if you're a coordinator and I would assume that when you are, someone else is going to a psychiatrist you guys are sharing notes with one another and saying, okay, this is what I found when I saw them.
Speaker 3:I'm sitting with so-and-so or that or whatever and they're like yeah, oh, wow, you know what? I didn't see that. I didn't pick up on that kind of thing. So you kind of must help each other out at the same time working for that one patient. That must be really cool. It's kind of beneficial when you think about it for the patient right. I mean, that's a double whammy right there.
Speaker 4:Yeah, that's what I'm saying. All the best worlds right. Yeah, that's awesome, because typically I'd be seeing the patient once a week or three times a month for an hour, whereas the psychiatrist maybe is seeing them once a month, probably once every three months, for about 20 minutes.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, yeah, that's wild. I didn't even know it was that little. I thought the psychiatrist saw them more often than not.
Speaker 4:Usually the assessments are thorough and once they're stabilized on medication, it's usually just a med visit.
Speaker 3:I have just another question regarding medication. What about people who just get prescribed medication and they have mental health issues and they need to work them out, but the only thing they do and think that that's okay for them is to have the medication? And the way I think about it is because I've been to that review before and I think of it like this I'm like, yeah, no, not that I've been on any meds, but I would think like I think you need both really, so you can go down and sit down and kind of go through whatever's going through While the meds are kind of helping you do that at the same time, cause I think if you're not doing one and just doing the other, I think it's like an unbalanced still You're not really getting anything out of it.
Speaker 4:They're usually just masking the problem. So I mean, if it's something that's serious and people always ask me like what's your specialty, and I always kind of joke is like I treat the walking well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm like that's my niche right, Right.
Speaker 4:Because it's just me. I'm not in a clinic anymore. I don't have a psychiatrist that I work with. So I try and limit myself to every day Joe or Jane, who just needs somebody to talk to and they don't want to exhaust their relationships with their friends and they don't want to keep burdening their wife or their husband or stuff like that, and because at some point it's just like no matter how much your friends love you, they don't want to hear it.
Speaker 4:Right, they don't want to hear it anymore, so it's like man, we're going to talk about this again. Like every time I-.
Speaker 1:Every time, joe, he'll blow his own Can't we just play golf?
Speaker 3:Can't we just play golf? Shit Right, we can't relax. Yeah, bullshit.
Speaker 4:People just say everybody just needs to be heard. So I got a couple of years Right.
Speaker 3:Especially if those who can't do it at home, or if something's going on and they're not comfortable enough to do it with that person or with whoever they have.
Speaker 1:They need someone who's not part of it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, right On the outside that they're part of it it always seems at least that's what I for me, what I've gone through. I like the fact that I have no connection with this person Exactly. They don't know me, I don't know them. You're starting a new relationship.
Speaker 3:The kind of thing is how I feel. And then I think that's good. And when you get a good one, it's, it works for you. Kind of like when we were talking about someone that you and I know mutual friend, and they didn't like to go to therapy Because they weren't comfortable and they didn't like the people they would see. And I said, well, my mental thought was well, look at it this way, you know how, when you have to take meds, sometimes the meds don't work right away. Right, you gotta figure out which one is the one. You correct me if I'm wrong the other therapist. So you know. But I would think that the same analogy would be for therapists as well. Hey, listen, I'm not crazy about this guy or this woman, I wanna try somebody else. Or maybe they were recommended. So I kind of like, is that the kind of same idea?
Speaker 4:Yeah, you know, I always thought at this level everybody's. You know, again, I'm New York, so everybody's licensed in the state of New York to provide therapy, to do what we're allowed to do. Everything else is just a matter of a connection that you make with somebody. You walk in the room and do I feel like I can talk to this person, and it goes both ways too, because I have to feel like I can listen to you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, right, right so.
Speaker 4:I'm sitting there. You know it's not gonna work. So it's making a connection and developing that relationship with somebody. So and if it's not working, then yeah, you know that's when it comes down to where you where, hopefully, if the therapist recognizes that, they'll say that to their patients and hey, listen, like this, I don't think this is working out for you. Like, I'm not the best fit for you and I want I always thought that I want what's best for you. If you don't get along with me, then you know.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 4:Or you don't like my style or something like that, then you should probably get somebody who you're more comfortable with Right, right, definitely, that's totally makes sense.
Speaker 2:Yeah, definitely, definitely. Yeah, now I know you don't deal sort of disclaimers that you know you don't handle with the meds and whatnot. Do have you had to deal with somebody that's on, that's taking their meds irregularly, and then, you know, try to talk them down because they either didn't take them or talking them into taking them, cause I've known people that don't take them, thinking that they're okay this week and I don't need to take them today. And then then they run into the therapist and like, oh my God, like this is going on, do you have to? And then they find out, oh, oh, so you're warranting your meds, yeah right and
Speaker 2:then, you know, backhand them or something.
Speaker 4:And it's as not. Being a medical doctor, you gotta be real careful. I can never tell somebody to start taking your meds again.
Speaker 2:Oh, even if they're prescribed.
Speaker 4:I can't tell you to do that Cause you didn't prescribe them. You can't I prescribe them, and I'm allowed to prescribe them. So I can't tell you hey Kent you should take these meds. I tell you to contact your psychiatrist and you need to let them know that you haven't taken your meds consistently over the last two weeks what your time frame is and do what they say. Whoa, that's why, that's a good way of saying it.
Speaker 2:It's kind of like yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:And you know what? And maybe they'll say you know, maybe I should take my meds again. You know, maybe that'll. And if they do, if they want to take it on their own, that's some of the medication, a lot of the antidepressants that people take.
Speaker 3:If you stop taking them, if you stop taking them abruptly, it could be even worse, right.
Speaker 4:It's even worse. You get it. You go into like deep depression and yeah. And almost as soon as you start taking them again, they can you know, you get back to normal again but I can't give you that suggestion.
Speaker 2:Wow, yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's crazy. Yeah, it's a fine line, you know.
Speaker 2:But Right, right, that's a.
Speaker 1:A legal thing, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, I said I get that. I just figured, because they're already on meds, already been prescribed. That if they're telling you you know, yeah, I didn't take them, you know if you can.
Speaker 4:But once they stop taking them not taking them as prescribed anymore, so everything changes.
Speaker 2:Oh right, yeah, okay, that makes sense.
Speaker 4:Yeah, Whether they could have worked up to a certain dose or something like that. And that happens too, because nowadays, with insurance and just the cost of things, sometimes people can't afford their medications. Or you know I have some people that just you know they can't afford their medications, they can't afford to get to the doctor. Right, yeah, for the whole base sometimes so and doctors and finding a psychiatrist is really, really hard, especially if you're on like marketplace insurance.
Speaker 2:Well.
Speaker 4:So, and I have people like that and we all do all therapists do and try and find a psychiatrist. You know, give you a test, go on tomorrow, call, try and get an appointment with a psychiatrist.
Speaker 1:Okay, see how long it'll be for you? Oh, three, four months, five months, six months, yeah.
Speaker 4:The earliest would probably be about a month or so. Yeah, Wow, and you'd be lucky with that. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Wow, that's crazy. Now, is it because there's just not enough therapists or they're just overwhelmed?
Speaker 4:They're overwhelmed. There's not, yeah, there's not enough anymore.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 4:With you know, with COVID, and when everything you know.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it kind of jacked everything up a little bit, oh man.
Speaker 4:You know people therapists stop taking insurance because they can double and triple charge what they used to what insurance pays. It's just crazy. Wow, Wow. And they work at home. They don't have to go into offices anymore. It's a whole.
Speaker 3:Right, so they can do the tele. The tele, yeah, what is it called, I'm sorry. What's Zoom? Thank you. Tele-conference, tele-conference, yeah. The tele-conference, yeah.
Speaker 2:Right, that's crazy man. Yeah, that's why I didn't. I guess it's bad in everything. You know what I mean. So that for therapists they're trying to double up on. You know somebody needs help.
Speaker 4:That kind of just sucks, you know, and I get making money, Like I can't do this if I don't get paid, but I still, I'm somebody, I still take insurance. I tell yeah. I take all my insurances and that's what it is. And that's why I do you know again, it's I sound like I'm, like you know, put myself on the pedestal but I do this to help people, right, exactly that's the key I mean.
Speaker 2:I think if you don't want to help, if you want to help somebody, then you're going to have to do and work at how you're doing it. You know what I mean, especially if you want to make a living doing it. Well, yeah.
Speaker 3:You're going to have to at least try to do that.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean.
Speaker 3:So I mean that would make sense to be able to get all the insurance and everything. Oh, yeah, I would try to do. Yeah, absolutely, you know.
Speaker 4:Well, actually you used to need to be like before COVID. You know, you go back four or five years. That was a bread and butter you were. You were paneled by insurance companies, you were in network, so if you needed to see somebody you would go to a doctor that was in your plan. And now you don't have to because you'll pay, right. Yeah, that's wild.
Speaker 2:That is wild.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, like I said, now you know, you know, it's one of those things. So I mean for us, the more we speak to people, the more we learn. So then it's like one of those things you pass the word on, you know, check on everybody. Like I would never have thought you know what. I'm going to look you up to see how you, you know, if you're a good therapist, which your background is and you know. Even just sit there for the five minutes before like an initial consultation. I never would have. I just didn't think about that. But I've never thought about going to a therapist.
Speaker 3:Kind of like an interview in a sense Right, yeah, yeah, checking that resume and seeing you know.
Speaker 2:Right, right right.
Speaker 3:How many likes do they have?
Speaker 2:Exactly yeah.
Speaker 3:How many followers? How many followers, how many followers.
Speaker 4:I don't think, I don't know if a lot of people do that because I mean like there's all these different, you know, like health. One of them is like health grade and stuff like that where they go and they rate you. But people typically don't do that. So it's, it's not, it's, you know, it's word of mouth. Yeah, it's you know, I get, you know probably.
Speaker 1:I get People look up through the insurance. I get through insurance. That's how we do it Right.
Speaker 4:I get through insurance or I get it through. I do most of it Through referrals and like I saw your friend or something like that I mean at one point I had, I had like six people that all came from one person.
Speaker 1:So it was just Nice, yeah, and that. And I'm sure it's interesting too because you might hear in the same name you know, yeah.
Speaker 2:I mean, you can't say anything, but you're thinking yourself, like I don't know who's doing who.
Speaker 1:Who's talking about the fuck?
Speaker 4:are you, but it's a great compliment, or you hear them talking about like the same maybe they're having a problem.
Speaker 2:One person. Yeah, we're friend number five. Someone with the same person is not enough, that's great man. It's got to be interesting for you you know yeah.
Speaker 3:I have to be honest with you.
Speaker 3:The couple of times I've gone, it's usually because, of somebody I knew, or was it in that type of profession, or my wife knew somebody, and say, well, why don't you reach out to someone? So do that. And that's usually kind of how I did it for me, I think. One other time I did do it through my insurance, like you had mentioned before, Steve, but that was a while back. That was a while back. Then you went to therapy Through my insurance. In other words, I just called my insurance, you can call them up and you can say, hey, this is what's going on and everything. Okay, hold the line, we'll get you here's, we're gonna send you a list to your email or whatever how they worked it at the time. And then you figured out you know who was in your area and you just called a couple of places.
Speaker 2:Yeah, now do you find, steve, that more people have stopping therapists or psychiatrists because they were just overwhelmed? I guess we'll say since COVID.
Speaker 4:I don't know.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I know it's a booming business.
Speaker 3:Right that, friends that.
Speaker 4:I have that are therapists and I can't even refer people to them because they're busy, or they're homey can you take somebody, I'm like I don't think so, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So, speaking of booming businesses, right, so you know, the last couple of years it's been insane. I was just talking to my friend on the phone. He's like I'm driving in the city and he goes there's gotta be a dispensary, like two dispensaries, on every block, Right, that was crazy. So are you seeing so I don't know if it's been positive or negative with people I talk, are people having problems because they're using cannabis? I mean, are you seeing people like, oh, I'm kind of calm now because of the, you know, the stress reducing effects, or are people developing problems?
Speaker 3:or are both?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 4:You know it's funny because I worked. I worked in substance abuse for 25 years Okay. And so I was always like you know abstinence, abstinence, abstinence. Yeah, yeah, regardless of what it was, regardless of what it is, but everyone that was coming in typically had a substance abuse problem, yeah.
Speaker 1:So yeah, there you go.
Speaker 2:I mean, I haven't a thing.
Speaker 4:I don't use myself, not in 40 years, but it's. I think there's a value to it within reason and the whole thing with you know, from what I know about, like medical marijuana, it's at small amounts.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 4:It's like you know, when you know you walk into the supermarket and the guy in front of you just you know he's just talking about it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he reeks of it.
Speaker 4:Like that's not medical. No, no, no no, but the person who takes a gummy because they have anxiety or back pain or something like that, yeah, I think it can be great. It's it's listen. There's so many pharmaceuticals out there that people take that are acceptable, that are so dangerous.
Speaker 3:Right, yeah, no, I know.
Speaker 4:But you know, I think marijuana is probably the least of the issues with all the oxycodones.
Speaker 2:Right and all and everything put in there. Right, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's like, yeah, it's definitely on the bottom of the list. That's scary. Yeah, yeah Again within reason Right.
Speaker 4:You don't want somebody taking a bunch of gummies and then driving their kids in the car. Right, yeah, yeah, exactly, that's not safe you don't want somebody having a couple of glasses of wine and getting in the car.
Speaker 3:Right, right, with any kind of substance. Right, yes, right, right, yeah.
Speaker 2:You know, yeah, because I mean, like you said, well, now, so you coming as a substance, a substance abuse counselor I almost like what Tom is saying do you think that people doing using the cannabis are now more anxious? Since COVID, that's what we were kind of basing our stuff off. You know what I'm saying. Before you smoke it, it's legal, kind of even you out. But do you find, because some people smoke and they get super like what's that, what's that, what's?
Speaker 3:that? Because they don't even smoke it.
Speaker 2:Yeah because they're not smoking either, right, they're not paying attention to what they got.
Speaker 3:So now people have smoke Any medication, right? Exactly yeah.
Speaker 2:Like anything that would be for mental health. Do you find more people are anxious as a whole since COVID smoking or using anything like that?
Speaker 4:I don't know how I could judge that.
Speaker 2:I don't know. Okay, okay, that's fair, yeah, that's fair.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I couldn't see how you would, though that would be hard. It's just because you're not really. They're not coming and going. Oh, I'm so gonna win. I don't trust people. I don't freaking fuck you.
Speaker 4:I mean I have people who are very honest that they smoke right stuff like that, which is great that they're honest. Yeah and there's nothing wrong with it, again, as long as stuff's in moderation and it doesn't cause problems in your life and things like that. But to your question. Before I think people you walk into your therapy, you're meeting somebody for the first time. If you've spoken to them on the phone, you've already got a good idea whether you're gonna put them with them.
Speaker 4:So I mean I know why when I take phone calls I'll talk to people for a few minutes and try and find out why they're coming in. What can I do? For them stuff like that, and I know at least right away I can jive with them, so there can be a connection, and I think they feel the same way too. So it's just like it's all styles, it's all what you're comfortable with. So, I'm real relaxed. I mean this is how.
Speaker 4:I dress yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's cool. I got my office as a couch in two chairs. It's like you're hanging out in a living room. I always joke.
Speaker 2:I put my slippers on because I'm so glad I want to be comfortable.
Speaker 1:So and you're gonna laugh. When Lou's sitting, he goes, I have my friends come and that's a therapist. I was like so before he came down I was like I was picturing like Richard Dreyfus, like what about Bob? Like maybe a tween jacket.
Speaker 4:I'm such a stereotype. And then I looked in there like where's this guy?
Speaker 2:See, I was kind of picturing the same thing though. So you know, like I was picturing, like you know, a button down shirt, little tie. Hey guys, nice to meet you.
Speaker 1:How are you? We'll pocket for time and one of the things that Now, bob, we're taking baby steps. Who are you about, bob? I hate that movie. I want to, I want to already.
Speaker 4:no, no, no, no because I want to smack Richard Dreyfus.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, because he's it's a jerk, yeah.
Speaker 4:So I'm kind of more like without the dress, because he dressed horrible also, but more like Robin Williams from Goodwill Hunting.
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah.
Speaker 3:Like I call shit how it is and stuff like that Right.
Speaker 4:Yeah, but he was a horrible dresser too, and I don't have a big beard either.
Speaker 3:Oh, robin Williams, yeah, he was. I don't have a big beard either. Yeah, yeah, yeah, but he was good in that movie though. Yeah, that movie.
Speaker 4:But you know, like, and you know on the phone too, and I always tell, like, if you're calling for your kid or something like that, I always tell a panelist and if, like you know, 15 minutes into the session, if your son and the daughter doesn't feel comfortable, get up, and walk out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, just-.
Speaker 4:I'm a big boy, I can handle it Right. If I can walk out and go find somebody that works for me.
Speaker 3:You know what's funny about that. Did you see that? You know you maybe think about that because at certain ages in your life a parent will do it. A parent will do it. If a parent's confident in themselves and they want to take care of their care, they're gonna do it. How many times is there certain things in your life you want to do it but you don't follow through on it and you kind of stick it out and it's the wrong thing to do you know in any situation.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, definitely.
Speaker 3:But then when you get older, I think for some people, hopefully, if you're in a good place, you're able to judge that and figure that out.
Speaker 2:you know, I would think yeah yeah, but it's cool too, because you're giving the kids that moment or that one thing that they can actually make a decision on Power, right exactly. Or they feel like, oh, I don't have to talk to you, I can you know what? And then. But then how many of those kids actually stay? Because they felt because you're giving them that, oh, you got a connection with them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you see, there you go, you fucking stuck my phone, even if it's only for like five or six or seven, but it's enough to get them just a good taste. Right right.
Speaker 4:So when something happens, it's, and I have. I have one guy that I see now. He's 33. I saw him when it was 15.
Speaker 2:Wow.
Speaker 4:He called me up.
Speaker 3:Really 20 years later. That's awesome. No, no, no, no, no that time frame.
Speaker 4:doesn't wait, he's like 18. Yeah, and he called me up twice. He goes hey, do you remember me? I saw you when I was a teenager. And I'm like, yeah, because I got like this uncanny memory of names and stuff. And he's like, can I come see you again? I'm like of, course, and so wow, that's awesome.
Speaker 3:That's a huge compliment. Yeah, man, but you think, because all that time went by and he was like, oh, I remember talking to that one person.
Speaker 4:It was just a good connection, Right and it was. It was not leaving the bad taste in his mouth. That's great, that is. That's really awesome.
Speaker 2:That is man. Yeah, see so now. It's amazing.
Speaker 3:It's got to be nice to write, to do what you like to do, Right? You know it's not hard to get up out of bed, I'm assuming to go to work and do what you do right, Because you love it and you want. You like help. Like you mentioned earlier, you like helping people, so it's got to be good for itself.
Speaker 4:Especially since I went full time just by myself, because I don't have to deal with administration.
Speaker 2:Right yeah.
Speaker 4:And I, just I am blessed to do what I love to do.
Speaker 2:And yeah.
Speaker 4:And I don't know what else to say about that. I love what I do. I love the people I see. I have good relationship with everybody.
Speaker 2:And if not, they don't last, and that's cool, if something happens and I'm just not the right person for them.
Speaker 4:But I have people that I've been seeing excuse me on and off for, you know, 15 years since I started. I have, you know people are coming for years and or, like I said, you know, you told your friend, who told their friend, who told their friend, and that's just a great compliment. So I went and I, just like I said, I love what I do, I love helping people and just my thing.
Speaker 2:Well, like this, if it's too personal, of course you know I'm not asking for detail, but how are you like? Do you have to go invent things out and you know?
Speaker 1:like are you see your own therapist? That's where I thought you were talking about. Yeah, right, yeah, yeah, but you know, are you required to do?
Speaker 3:that no.
Speaker 4:I get locked up in an institution. You know I have you know I've been in therapy before and I'm currently I'm not, but I have friends that friends that are in the field that I talk to when things are going on, oh, okay. I have a good outlook on things as far as just how I handle my life. I kind of.
Speaker 2:I kind of got like a like a zen Right?
Speaker 4:Yeah, I have a good life. I have a good life. I have a good wife. I have a good, great kids. I got a good family. I got good friends. I mean my life is good, and I do what I love to do.
Speaker 1:Right, I was always thought of that too. I was like I wonder if, like you're a therapist, that like you need to talk to someone to like help, cause other like maybe you like kind of empathize and you kind of deal with the person with them and maybe need to offload to it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's not really the case.
Speaker 1:Psychiatrist.
Speaker 4:Yeah, they do, they have to right. Yeah, they do, I know they do that.
Speaker 3:So who knows what anybody does that nowadays, with time Right, I mean it wouldn't be a bad idea.
Speaker 2:I mean how can it hurt? You know well. Yeah, I mean you listening and you just soaking up everybody else's so for you to turn around and just like right you know you need to let loose. Right, not so much that you just telling you know all your clients stuff out there you know to whoever you speak to, but just to be able to get somebody off his shoulders, cause I mean working out jogging on the street or whatever. It only goes. But so far, man, you're like yo, this motherfucker.
Speaker 3:You ever had that one patient where you want you're happy helping him, and you he's there and he's coming in. But you know, at that at the end of the day you're like, wow, this guy is intense.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like that's, you know.
Speaker 3:Like you know, yeah, like yo, I mean all that, all that. I should say guy, but you know what I mean. Like, have you ever had something on you that was?
Speaker 4:Yeah, I mean over the course of 30 plus years yeah, you had that. And when you work for agencies, you had. You know, you had a bunch of people that you work with and we always had staff meetings that you could talk about and supervising and stuff like that. I've done a real good job over over the course of my career of not taking work home with me.
Speaker 4:Nice I found that you know, if I, if I take you home with me, I can't be effective. So so I don't, I don't do you any good, I'm not a service to you or anybody else. I see, if I go home and I start, I just start Worrying about all your stuff. So I kind of might, when I shut my door at my office, that's where, that's where it stops. So and if somebody has to call me or contact me, because, because you know, we have to be available and stuff- like that but you know I'll deal with it then, but then when I hang up the phone, it's over and it's very.
Speaker 4:I come home from work and I come home from I hate even calling it work I come home from my office and my wife and my kids will say how was, how was work good, mm-hmm, good long.
Speaker 1:Yeah, profitable.
Speaker 4:Good look, cuz it's, cuz it is. That's what it is right and again. I know that if I bring it home I'm no good to you the next day so.
Speaker 2:I.
Speaker 4:I've learned. I've learned over again. I'm 59 years old then. I've been doing this basically since I'm 18 years old.
Speaker 1:That's a good way to live for any. You know it's because we both work for the same company. Yeah and sometimes you want to talk about work and I'm just like I don't want to talk about it Right because you know what? Because I I used this phrase. I said when I Get it, why have a work fan? So what I? You know, technically I'm still work, I'm, even though I'm not on the clock anymore, but when I, when I'm out of work, I wouldn't forget where I'm on your way.
Speaker 3:I want to know what I do, or?
Speaker 1:work until it's time to yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, cuz that's your time to forget where I, where I work, that's like my phrase and that's a big issue for a lot of people's work stresses just dealing with, you know Just obviously, the stress of work or deal with supervisors or stuff like that. And then what do they do? They come home and they start, they talk about it to their spouse and I gotta find a way to leave it at work, because if you were now, you worked an eight or ten hour day.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and you're miserable.
Speaker 4:Now you come home and now you talk to your husband or wife for another hour or two about work. Well, now you're working at a ten or twelve hour day right and you still, you're still mentally, you still pissed off.
Speaker 2:Yeah right.
Speaker 4:So your work, you brought your work home with you and I was. I was asked people like why do you work right?
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 4:We were, we were standing. We work for money right. Right, that's really, we work for money so we could take care of our families, and I Don't let anything ruin your family. So don't let that job that you're doing to take care of your family ruin your family Right, and you know we all find different ways of.
Speaker 1:You know, for me I used to I Was always like, oh, I like I like to take my shower, like right before bed. So I'm like some clean the bed. But now I realize I one day I came home from work and I was like I gotta take my shower Soon as I get home because I just got really dirty at work or whatever. You know what I like, that I think I'm gonna start taking my showers when I go soon as I get home, because that's like a chance to unwind.
Speaker 4:Why just wash work off exactly?
Speaker 1:Yeah, and then it's help them.
Speaker 4:That's wow, I've unworked my brain.
Speaker 1:Yeah you know yeah, so yeah.
Speaker 3:That's gonna be. You know it's nice when you got a job and you can go to it and you know you like it. Especially. You know you're your own boss.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, you know Hell, yeah, that's gotta be it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's gotta be great yeah. I mean that's awesome, Well like.
Speaker 2:I said but like for you, those teeth that you know it's it's, it's gratifying, you know. So that's part, that's the Me, part of the key to the whole right. You know you could like your job and you know You're happy that you help people. But if you're not, you're like, yeah, I hope a couple of people is whatever. Right, I'm just a genius. It is what it is, you know, of course. But when you turn around and you're like, you know that you just feel like you know you're like I Help somebody, like somebody like I made them better, or you know I'm just helping them work through whatever. Yeah, that's gotta be awesome.
Speaker 4:That's great, because I see that in the people and now and what I do now. But with all my years with the county, because you know people just kind of left and it's been so long, I Want, I wish I knew yeah, people were yeah right, like if people are still clean and sober right from 30 years ago. I like that. I wish I there was a scorecard that I can find out yeah.
Speaker 4:Wow, I see some people on Facebook that I know are doing well. But but you know, you know doing it for 30 years is thousands of people. That yeah, man of your part of your work life and you know to know what 25 of them are doing is. I wish I knew more.
Speaker 2:Right, right, definitely, but I'm sure because you seem like a really cool person, you know, so I'm sure that you know Probably most of them are like okay, and they hear your voice in the back of their head when they give me Do some dumb shit.
Speaker 4:You know, like you know what?
Speaker 2:Yeah? Steve said no, I'm not doing that one, you know, I hope so yeah.
Speaker 3:I got one real correction because we had a podcast. The last podcast was on how people you know Just common decency Mm-hmm. Have you noticed that since COVID that too as well, where it's seems out of control, Like with the driving and the people you know, nobody holding a door saying thank you, it just the kind of the normal stuff that we grew up oh kind of you know. It kind of went away a little bit like people I like to put. You know, fuck yourself.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, thanks for holding the door, yeah.
Speaker 3:I mean like yeah, have you seen that a lot more going on that too as well.
Speaker 4:I guess, and just when going out and stuff. Yeah, people are not as polite. You know, I'm always a doorholder, please right to the extreme and yeah, it's people. Don't add a. People don't know matters anymore, right yeah?
Speaker 3:I was just curious, because you know that was our last one, yeah, and it's just more evident and the obvious. When you see it, you know and you're like really, I told you cross. I was like, yeah, go ahead and cross. No, thank you, no way to.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, that's our time for the Steve. He goes fast when we have, you know that, that good combo with that, yeah so I appreciate you being here. Thank you for the Very welcome big time, yeah, so thank you everybody for being here. Thank you to all our listeners for listening. Guys, don't hurt anybody this week, please you follow us on Instagram and Facebook. Follow. Like what other good stuff. Yes, love peace and hair grease. They belong in Prosper and go vegan Hello.