Podcast 65: The Little Death - Navigating Menopause

Menopause is not a moment. It’s a season. For many of us, it’s a long one.

In today’s episode, we talk about the emotions that can show up when fertility ends, how family dynamics can shift, and why empathy for yourself is not optional. We also share tools that helped us through the changes, from simple supports to bigger interventions, plus resources you can use right away.

Full episode is up now, and we’re posting the long-form resources alongside it.\

menopause, #perimenopause, #postmenopause, #womenshealth, #midlife, #selfcare, #hotflashes, #sleep, #mood, #hormones, #herbalism, #essentialoils, #hormonetherapy, #wellness, #community

Transcript

Linda: Hello, and welcome to Two Crones and a Microphone. I am Linda.
Betty: I am Betty.
Sally: And I’m Sally.
Linda: And we’re so excited to be joining you today. We’re going to jump right in on our next in the series on menopause, “the little death,” navigating menopause.

Linda: And I just want to point out: we’re talking about menopause, but that also includes perimenopause, menopause, and postmenopause because it all kind of flows together, right? You start, you get to the middle, you think you’re done. News flash, you’re never done.

Linda: All right, those hot flashes, man, they just love hanging on. So that’s just my two cents.

Betty: Yeah. And for a lot of women, you know, we think about that like it’s a singular event. And for a lot of women, I mean, this period of time is 10 to 15 years.

Sally: Exactly. Kind of move through that whole thing. So that’s a big chunk of those sort of pre-crone, crone years, you know, rolling into almost into crone, so to speak.

Linda: Totally agree. And we want to tie this to a harvest theme here because in this moment it is fall, veering into winter. By the time you see this, it’ll be December. And think about what is it that we want to harvest here from our life lived so far. What do we want to bring with us? And what are we willing to leave behind?

Linda: Because one of the obvious things we leave behind, at least in our physicality, is the ability to give birth. And so there may be a lot of things that come up around that that don’t simply have to do with the physical. They have to do with our station in life, the way life expresses for us, the choices we’re able to make that way.

Betty: And for some women, they don’t think about giving birth. Maybe they’re busy with career, and other family, mothers and fathers who are aging, and you know all of those other things that have to do with family. And sort of when you hit that 40, 45-year period, there’s that question of, “Oh, did I want to have children? Did I forget to have children? Was I too busy to have children?” And now I’m looking at the fact that I might have waited too long.

Betty: And I always respond: it’s funny when people in their 20s say, “Oh, my biological clock is ticking.” But for a lot of people, that thought doesn’t really hit till the 40s, even mid-40s now, where people are saying, “Oh, my biological clock is ticking,” and now I’m in perimenopause and I think I might have waited too long. And so all of the emotions and the things that come along with that.

Betty: Or women who really want to have their own biological children but aren’t able to.

Linda: And so that’s right. There’s that first thought of, “Wow, I’m having problems having children, conceiving, or maintaining a pregnancy.” And that loss, even though it might happen earlier, also hits hard when people hit menopause, right? That sadness, that grief, whatever it is that people are feeling. Maybe anger of the unfairness of not having a biological child when you want one.

Linda: And for some people, adoption is not an option. Other people are able to find their way to adoption and bring children into their life through that. But that doesn’t always work for everybody. So it’s really challenging. When we say “a little death,” it’s a lot of things people have to let go of when you think about that.

Betty: Well said. Thank you.

Sally: I know for my own story, I wasn’t clear that I wanted children at all. And it was five years into my marriage that I really felt a little spirit kind of knocking at the door. And at that point, I was 40, and I conceived. I was lucky enough to be able to conceive at 41 and give birth at 42. But that’s not true for everyone. I felt very fortunate. I was also terrified, you know, because I could look and see, “Well, how is this going to upend my life?” Oh, well, here we are. Let’s go. But I was fortunate that way.

Linda: Yeah. And I have some wonderful friends who hit that period and maybe were not in a relationship and so pursued adoption because that was something—an experience raising children—that they really wanted to have in this lifetime. And, you know, there’s a lot of thought that goes into that as well. You know, never easy, particularly if you enter into adoption or, for that matter, artificial insemination as a single person.

Betty: Yeah.

Betty: And then you have someone like me who married in my early 40s. I was still able to have a child. But honestly, it didn’t really cross my mind until my husband was like, “Um, do you want to have a baby?” I’m like, “What? A baby? Me?” I had never really wanted children.

Betty: And I had done a lot of caregiving in my younger years and I thought, you know, I’m kind of done with that. My brother in particular—I diapered him, I fed him, I did the whole thing. So I went through this really difficult period where I had to make a decision.

Betty: Do I really want to be childless? Biological children? I mean, Larry had two kids, so they’d be my stepchildren. But I made the decision not to, for a lot of reasons. I’m not going to go into all of them here, but some of them had to do with my husband and knowing his nature and knowing that that man would never retire. He would never be able to retire if we had a child. So I was like, “No, I don’t think so. I’m fine.”

Betty: And I have to tell you, I have wonderful grandchildren. So it’s all worked out just great. And I’ve been a caregiver to my mom, my husband when he got sick. I mean, if I’d had a child, it would have been really difficult to do all of that. My stepfather had to take care of him. So, for me, that was my path in life. And I’ve never regretted it, actually, making that decision.

Linda: And how about you, Sally? You have two boys, two great boys.

Sally: Yeah. And I think the lesson, right—one who came to us through adoption and one who is a biological child—but I think that the message for people is acknowledging those choices and thinking about them so that you have, I want to say power, but I don’t know that that’s really the right word, so that you have input and power in making those choices, and letting go of the things that you want to let go of. Sort of the “little death” theme: letting those things go or embracing them and moving forward.

Linda: I want to add something here. Thank you, Sally. Would you like to finish?

Sally: No, it’s okay.

Linda: Okay. Well, as you said that, and you know making choices and feeling empowered, what popped into my head was: have empathy for yourself. No matter what your choice is, have the same kind of empathy you would have for a best friend if she was facing a series of choices like this. Keep that empathy when you’re 60. Have that empathy for yourself and don’t beat yourself up if you say, “Oh, I should have. I could have. Why didn’t I? I made a bad choice,” you know. Because I think we often look—as we get older—looking back is much easier than when you’re living through that time.

Betty: That’s right. Looking back, it’s really important to not be hard on ourselves. I love that you brought in empathy for whatever choice you made at whatever age you made it. You made the best choice you could have made.

Linda: That’s right.

Betty: Yeah. I would say for me going into menopause, the hard part was realizing I was getting older. That was difficult for me. My body was changing. I was changing. I remember saying to one of my close girlfriends, “God, I don’t even know who I am anymore. I’m turning into someone else.” And she goes, “Yep, you are.” She was absolutely right. And I actually like the person I turned into, but the process was really rough.

Betty: So I wasn’t looking back saying, “Oh my God, I should have had a child.” No. I was too busy caregiving for everybody else. A poor child would have been really having a hard time because I was just too busy running, taking care of people, and still am for that matter. But that’s another story for another day.

Betty: So we all have our path in life, and for me that’s what it is. I’m a caregiver.

Linda: You are, and a wonderful one.

Betty: Thank you, Linda.

Linda: You’re welcome. It’s true.

Sally: And that brings up an interesting question: what about us and how it affects our family constellations, family and friends, right? Because there’s a net effect there because they see us changing up. Let’s say we were always the one who gleefully cooked dinner every night and we loved it, and all of a sudden we’re like, “I’m done with this. Who else wants to take over? I am so done with this.” And we’re going to get a little bit in a few minutes into another spirited person who we love, but you know, it’s just like, “I’m done.”

Sally: Someone else needs to do the shopping, and I’ll be happy to help shop, but you know what? The cooking and the cleaning, forget it. And so those are the kinds of things that start happening. We become unrecognizable in some ways because all of a sudden other choices are clear to us. Like, “Whoa, wait a minute. Why have I been doing this for so long?” “Oh, yeah. I remember. I used to like it.” “Why don’t I now?” Who cares?

Sally: And it becomes unusual for us because we don’t maybe recognize ourselves anymore. And also for those around us, “Whoa, what just happened to mom?” And if it’s not a family constellation that way, maybe it’s a significant other, or our parents, or our friends, or our community. We may be stepping up because we’re entering that phase where we can speak clearly and not worry about it, and we know what we want.

Betty: Yeah. I had a friend who, when her husband retired—true story—he came home, he was retired. She says, “Okay, so am I. No more cooking and no more cleaning. We’re hiring someone to clean. We’re going out to eat as much as possible. I love it. I’m not doing it anymore. You’re retired. I’m retired.” He was shocked. Absolutely shocked. But they made it work.

Linda: Excellent. And there we go.

Sally: Kind of backward. I think in the middle of working and having children, maybe that’s when we should have somebody cleaning and somebody cooking for us.

Betty: We need a wife.

Linda: Yeah, we definitely do. At least a housekeeper.

Betty: Yeah, I know, right?

Sally: So, what are some of the tools that we use to get ourselves through perimenopause, menopause, and post-menopause? Linda, how about you? You’re an herbalist. What did you start using that would help you?

Linda: You know, I was using Rescue Remedy at the time because I could tell that I was a little bit emotionally up and down. It was an instructive time for me. I was working full-time, stressful job, mom, married in that moment, and there was a lot of complexity in life, as there always is. And that was helpful.

Linda: And then I wasn’t as aware of herbalism in that moment. So that was most of what I used—Rescue Remedy—and I was very grateful for it.

Betty: And Rescue Remedy is a flower essence that is easily available. You can get it in a cream, you can get it in drops, and you can get it in these little pastilles, which are little candies.

Linda: Yes, which I have to this day. I use that.

Betty: There you go.

Linda: My Rescue Remedy is right here. And I love them, too, because there’s no alcohol in these for those who have alcohol sensitivities.

Betty: Yeah.

Linda: But yeah, I have them at my desk. I take one periodically. That was most of my lived experience. And I also did have—we’ll talk about this a little later too—a little bit of a team. I was in therapy in the moment. I was in a women’s group, and so that was helpful.

Linda: Did we speak about menopause per se? No. But it was a safe space for me to go in and say, “Oh man, sometimes I am so irritable around the edges. I feel like I could just snap. I feel like I could just bite someone’s head off.” And it was safe enough to talk about that there, and I felt supported that way.

Sally: Yeah. No, I understand that. I was thinking back to like I was using everything I knew. There were some herbs that I was aware of. I was using those. I was using cooling fans. I was changing my sheets I don’t know how many times a night. I mean, my hot flashes were epic. Absolutely epic. Changing my clothes a couple of times a day. It was rough.

Betty: Oh, man. I remember one night getting out of bed—and thank God we live in the woods. I went out into the backyard. It was winter, no clothes. Larry wakes up, he’s like, “What are you doing?” I’m like, “I’m dying here. I’m so hot. I can’t stand it.”

Betty: But fortunately for me, my husband was a dentist and he worked with women a lot—the dental hygienists, the assistants. He knew exactly what I was going through because he’d been through it multiple times with the people in the office. In fact, he kept that office really cold all the time. You’d go in there, you’d be freezing your tail off. They’d have to put things on the patients to get them warmed up, because they’re sitting there trying to get their teeth done. Everybody else is happy. So he got it.

Betty: He was okay. “All right. Fine. Whatever you got to do, do it.”

Linda: That’s a great story. And I know you tried everything—cooling sheets, ice packs, all kinds of things.

Betty: Well, and as some of you know, if you’ve listened to the other podcast, I finally went on bioidentical hormones. At that time my gynecologist was a male, and honest to God, I went in. I grabbed him by the jacket—obviously, I knew him—and I’m like, “Pedro, you have to help me.” He says, “Well, try and eat more yogurt.” I’m like, “What? Don’t tell me something stupid like that. I need hormone replacement therapy.”

Betty: So, needless to say, I got my hormone replacement therapy. I think I might have been the first patient he ever put on hormone replacement therapy, but I broke ground. He started doing it with his other patients. Never mentioned yogurt to me again. He learned his lesson.

Linda: Oh, that was a bad thing to say. Well, you got your message across.

Betty: I did. Oh, yeah. Did I ever. The poor guy. I can still see his face. He was like, “Well, Betty, you all right now?” I’m not all right.

Linda: Sally, how about you? How did that whole perimenopause-menopause journey go for you? Do you have any story you want to share?

Sally: You know, I really don’t, because my experience was so different. My challenges came from maintaining a pregnancy. So, when it came time for menopause, I had like two hot flashes. I didn’t take anything. It was there, and then it was gone.

Sally: And so, you know, I think that’s a different kind of experience than most people have, but I recognize it was because of the hormonal balance in my own body that I sort of went through unscathed. But the challenges came before that, right? Trying to have children and carry a pregnancy to term.

Sally: So, you know, for those of you who say, “Wow, I’ve never had a hot flash,” I’m with you. I was hot as a furnace when I was pregnant, but I really didn’t have hot flashes.

Sally: And truly, I was really aware of the sadness that came when you no longer menstruate—you don’t have that period. And we’ve talked about this in other episodes, releasing everything that you need to release every month and being able to let go of things and start fresh. So there was sadness around that because I had to find other ways to make sure I was continuing to release the things—whether it’s stress, whether it’s things that are going around you—to let those things go and find ways to do that.

Sally: And I love, through the traditions of Osha, being able to acknowledge ceremonially, to be able to acknowledge those changes in your life. I think it is really powerful. So I focused more in that direction.

Sally: Might I have been a little snappy? I don’t know. I don’t really think terribly so, but you know, I couldn’t really be snappy in my work. You really had to keep your emotions under wraps. But again, because I wasn’t having huge hormonal spikes, I think I missed some of those physical symptoms. I think I experienced the emotional ones, but not necessarily the physiological ones. So I didn’t do any of those things, ladies.

Linda: Oh, it’s good. It’s good. Well, this is an interesting triangle, you know, because I looked at statistics and for about 10 percent of women, there’s no net effect. For about 80 percent of us, there are spikes here and there. For 20 percent, it is really quite a ride.

Betty: Yeah.

Linda: And so we get to reflect that entirety here. That’s kind of nice. But just wherever you are, we just want to encourage you to reach out for the right kind of help for you, whatever that may mean to you.

Linda: For me, my herbs now would be my first resource. And so we’re going to go into just a couple of resources each for herbs, essential oils, flower essences that will be able to help you. But when you see this podcast, be sure to look for the resources that’ll be much more extensive that we’ll post on this.

Betty: Yeah. Just go to the website, twocronesandamicrophone.com, and you’ll find posts that we’ll make that will flesh this out for you. We try and keep the podcast to about 30 minutes, but honestly, we could keep going on and on and on.

Linda: Oh, so we could. Each one could be an hour and a half without any problem, but we want to keep it short and sweet and incentivize you to look for our other resources. So, thank you.

Sally: Yeah. And it’ll be titled “Favorite Herbs for Menopause.” That’s right. Just some of the other things that we’ve posted up there.

Betty: Favorite essential oils.

Linda: Yeah. Good. Well, Sally, would you mind starting off with your two herbs? Because the emmenagogue piece I think is going to be important, because one of the key things that happened for me was the sort of longer period and much heavier. And so I think that’s true for a lot of women.

Sally: Yeah. So in the study that I’ve been doing with Rosemary Gladstar, the category is called emmenagogues, and there are herbs that relate in two ways. There are herbs that promote menstruation, and we’re not really going to go into those today, but there are herbs that are generalized tonics for the female reproductive system.

Sally: I’m going to quickly list the major ones. They’re not the only ones, and maybe just focus on two: blessed thistle, false unicorn root, motherwort, which Linda’s also going to talk about, mugwort, raspberry, and yarrow.

Sally: And I really like raspberry. You can use the root as a tonic and it will help gently tone your whole reproductive system. Raspberry is really easy to get a hold of. You can use the leaf and drink it as a tea, or you can use the root, which can also be a tea, a kind of tea tonic. I think that’s a really great one.

Sally: And yarrow is really good for a lot of things. Again, drink that as a tea and it just generally helps your whole reproductive system. That’s the notion of a tonic. It’s a general well-being kind of thing that you can do.

Sally: Personally, I like the teas, but you can also take them as tinctures, much like the flower essences that Betty’s going to talk about. So you can put those in a glass of water, you can put those under your tongue, and you can get kind of a fast dispersal.

Sally: So those are the ones I’m going to talk about. Though I do love motherwort also, but Linda’s going to speak more about motherwort.

Linda: Yeah. There are several herbs that are key and really potent and wonderful to be used during this period. I’ll list: borage, lemon balm, passionflower, St. John’s wort, dong quai. But the two I want to focus in on right now are motherwort and black cohosh.

Linda: Motherwort: the parts used are the leaf and flower. It’s a bitter herb, and so it’s good for anxiety. It helps relieve anxiety, which is part of what was coming up for me, and I think for many of us during this period of change.

Linda: It’s especially helpful for hot flashes associated with nervous tension and is specific for all kinds of hormonal imbalances. And here’s a nice little note: it’s great for mothers and adolescent daughters to both take in order to have a more serene household.

Linda: I do like a tea application. And another way to think about this is: if you’re not a big tea drinker but you’re a bath taker, you can put those dried herbs into a little muslin bag, make it nice and strong, pour it into your bath water, and it’ll be absorbed through your skin that way. There are so many ways these things can become part of your ritual self-care during this period.

Linda: Now, the other one I’d like to touch on is black cohosh. Black cohosh is, frankly, a master herb for this. The part that’s used is the root, and it’s a nervine and muscle relaxant. There are studies that have shown black cohosh can help relieve typical symptoms including hot flashes, night sweats, headache, thinning of vaginal tissues, palpitations, as well as emotional symptoms including depression and irritability.

Linda: Woo. Give me more black cohosh, I’d say. During that period, had I known at that time that that could have helped me, I would have taken it. That would have been my one herb for sure. Keep in mind, there are also capsules available for powdered black cohosh. Just be careful about the provider. If you can, make sure it’s harvested responsibly and organic if possible.

Linda: Betty, how about essential oils? I know you have some wonderful guidance on that.

Betty: Oh, yeah. And some of these I did use to try, and I did use the herbs. I did all that research and unfortunately nothing really worked for me, but I did use a lot of lavender essential oil, and to this day I still use it.

Betty: Lavender is easy to obtain. You just have to make sure you get a pure essential oil, not a perfume oil. You don’t want the perfume. You want the actual essential oil. It does help with sleep. Insomnia is one of the things that comes along with menopause. You’re just lying there and your brain’s going.

Betty: Lavender will help with that. Even post-menopause, it’ll help. It helps to manage anxiety, irritability, any of your mood swings, which is definitely a part of menopause and perimenopause.

Betty: It’s a good stress reliever, and it supports emotional well-being. Lavender is one of those oils that does everything. You can put it in a diffuser, you can put it in a spray bottle. It has to be diluted, of course.

Betty: Lavender happens to be one of the few essential oils that you can apply directly to your skin. It won’t have a caustic effect. You could take a bath with it—just make sure you put some milk in the bath. Otherwise, the essential oil will sit on the top. The milk will help disperse it. Or you could use vodka, of course. That’ll help disperse it, too. And whatever you do with the rest of the vodka, that’s your business.

Betty: Put some on your pillow. Put a lavender sachet in your pillow. There are many ways to use it, and I will list those for you.

Betty: The other one I really liked was ylang-ylang because it smells so beautiful. That’s really good for your emotions. It helps reduce your anxiety, helps keep you calm, and it combats depression. A lot of times depression accompanies menopause. Maybe it’s deep sadness, maybe it’s not depression, but ylang-ylang will definitely help with the emotional lows.

Betty: It does enhance your feelings of self-confidence and femininity. Ylang-ylang just makes you feel beautiful. For that reason, I would say definitely consider that one.

Betty: And then clary sage. Clary sage may help you with your hot flashes. It may reduce the frequency and intensity. Again, emotional balance, reduce anxiety, may help with your sleep. And during perimenopause it may help with regulating your periods, because you know how that works: you get your period, then you don’t have it for five, six, seven weeks, and you think you’re going into menopause—bang, it comes back.

Betty: It will help regulate that type of thing if you have that. And it stabilizes your mood. I know I talk about mood a lot, but it’s tough when you’re going through all this. You haven’t had any sleep. You feel like an elephant.

Betty: For me, I felt like an elephant all the time. And I felt fat. I was just fat, fat, fat. So it helps regulate that, but then it would make me angry. So I would be touchy, and I had to regulate that in me.

Betty: So all these things help. The essential oils help. They’re our partners in this. They want to help us. The plant beings want to help us. That’s part of why we’re here with them. They are teachers and helpers.

Linda: Yes.

Betty: And when I do my piece on it, I will explain how to mix it up, how to use it, the many different ways you can use it. You can travel with it. Essential oils are just amazing.

Betty: So that’s my piece. And then there’s chocolate.

Linda: Yes.

Sally: Still one of my go-tos.

Betty: Absolutely.

Sally: Good chocolate.

Linda: We all agree that that maintains into cronehood. Ladies, here we are.

Betty: Guys, if you’re listening—or crone women—give it to your friends, your significant others, everybody. Chocolate.

Betty: Do you know I sent Larry out for chocolate one night? I was crying, and he’s like, “What’s wrong?” I’m like, “I don’t know.” He says, “I know what to do.” And he produces a chocolate bar. I was like, “Yes, thank you. That’s so great.”

Linda: Well, believe it or not, we are almost at the end of this. There are two more things we want to touch on. We encourage you once again to please go look at our website, look at the contact and information that’ll be posted with this podcast because there’ll be a lot more resourcing here. We just touched on what we felt were the most important pieces right now.

Linda: One is our wisdom practice, and then we’re going to end with a little shout-out to the We Do Not Care Club.

Betty: Absolutely.

Linda: Sally, would you like to take the wisdom practice, or you want me to?

Sally: Would you go ahead and do that, Linda?

Linda: Yeah, sure. What we came up with is: we’d like you to sit and imagine—whether or not you’ve been through this period yet—sit and imagine and think: how did you feel when you turned 40? You could think about this if you’re 39 as well. How do you imagine you’ll feel when you turn 50? When you turn 60?

Linda: And by the way, P.S., you may still be having hot flashes after the end of perimenopause and menopause as well. But how do you feel? Take a little time and either journal or sketch or sing. Do something creative that begins to anchor that for you. And then apply those elements of self-care.

Linda: How about empathy for yourself at 40? How about empathy for yourself at 50, and empathy for yourself at 60? Because sometimes we get to give ourselves exactly what we need.

Linda: And if you’re making a list of things that you want to let go of as you move forward, remember the things that you want to walk towards. What is it that you want to be embracing?

Linda: So if I’m letting go of having children, then what am I walking towards? What am I going to do with that energy that might have been involved in raising children? Do I want to volunteer somewhere? Think through how you might want to replace that, because that’s equally important as you’re clearing away and letting go of things.

Linda: Experiencing the joy of something or the sadness of letting something go: what do you want to embrace as you move forward in each of those decades?

Sally: Brilliant. It was actually in my mid-50s that I started seriously studying herbalism, for example, and I’d always meant to. It just hadn’t quite gotten there yet.

Sally: And maybe you’ll want to start a podcast. Hey, worked for us. Kept us out of trouble.

Betty: Oh, yeah. Got us into some good trouble, too.

Betty: And I do want to mention the We Do Not Care Club. I love this.

Betty: Just Being Melanie started it. She’s an American woman who was amazing. She was sitting in her car one day and had just had it. We’ve all been there. She pushed the record button on her phone and recorded this “We do not care,” and it took off like a shot.

Betty: So if you look her up—Just Being Melanie—or put in “We Do Not Care Club,” you’re going to find all kinds of things around that. Women are so funny. Like: we do not care that we can braid the hair on our legs. We’re just not shaving them anymore. It’s amazing.

Betty: One of my favorite people wrote a book. She’s an Australian. Her name is Shelley Horton, and she runs the Australian chapter of the We Do Not Care Club. And she wrote a book called I Am Your Peri Godmother. Mine hasn’t arrived yet; it’s en route.

Betty: She advises doing exactly what we are advising you to do. She has a team: her gynecologist, a therapist, a masseuse, a hormone specialist, an herbalist. She’s amazing. We reached out to her, and she was more than happy to have us talk about her.

Betty: You can look her up on any social media platform and you’ll find her. Shelley Horton, the We Do Not Care Club, Australian Chapter. And of course, the other one is Melanie. And a little humor. They are hilarious.

Linda: Oh my gosh. It has me belly laughing every single time I hear them. It’s great.

Sally: Around Betty’s dining room table—Fran, who has been on a podcast before, the people we interviewed—Betty introduced me to them, and just funny beyond belief. Like, I am not able to be funny like that. Hysterically funny.

Betty: Yep. And you do need humor to navigate. You need humor. And your family, and your partner if you have one, all need to embrace this whole period with humor.

Linda: You bet. That’s right. We’re in the journey together. And if you have a partner the same age as you, they might be aging too.

Sally: Yes. Men go through this. It has its own process.

Betty: You know what’s good about the We Do Not Care Club also? They invite people to join the club. You have to put down what you do not care about, right? And you read through these things, you’re going, “Oh my God, I thought I was the only one that went through this.” And you find out that you’re not. There’s a whole tribe of women going through the same things.

Linda: Yeah. It’s really powerful. And I think laughter is one of the best ways to release stress. So yes, we invite you to join them, and a worldwide circle of women who are going through this.

Linda: So we want to thank you, and we’re signing off for today. Two Crones and a Microphone.

Betty: And as usual, I’d say: go find your glimmer.

Sally: And I would say: we’re helping you navigate the muddy waters of our time.

Linda: Oh boy. Or the muddy waters of menopause and peri. Yeah. That for today.

Linda: And of course, always remember: you are surrounded by beauty, and remember to walk in beauty.

All: Kaydeeshday. All is made beautiful.

All: Bye-bye. Bye-bye.