Priorities and Values in Ministry

Summary

In this episode of the Church Talk podcast, hosts Jason Allison and Rob Paterson engage in a deep conversation about the importance of prioritizing life and ministry. They discuss how to establish a hierarchy of priorities, the significance of personal health and family, and the challenges of navigating transitions in leadership roles. The conversation also touches on the role of core values in leadership, how conflicts can clarify true priorities, and the tools and resources available for effective time management. The hosts emphasize the need for creating an ideal week to visualize and achieve one's priorities, ultimately encouraging listeners to engage, equip, and encourage one another in their ministry journeys.

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rob@churchtalkproject.com

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Transcript

Jason Allison (00:00)
Well, it's time for another episode of the church talk podcast with Rob and Jason. I hope that you are ready for some amazing conversation about some deep and heavy topics and all that stuff. Right, Rob? That's just what we do. man. I'm, excited to, ⁓ to dive in today. We got some, some good stuff that we want to talk about. And I, you know, I, I,

Rob Paterson (00:13)
That's right.

Jason Allison (00:21)
I really hope our listeners continue to send stuff in. We've gotten a couple of ideas from, from listeners over the last month or so, saying, Hey, have you ever thought about talking about this or man? It would be helpful to me if you could, you know, just. Perseverate on this for a while, and see where things go. And so, yeah, I love doing that. And I hope, ⁓ I hope our listeners will continue to send stuff in. what, what, ⁓

What's been going on in your life?

Rob Paterson (00:48)
Well, Jason, as you said that, the thing that hit me was, you know, somebody might be like, well, you know, I know you guys probably, you know, have this all planned out and whatever. And, know, there are certainly seasons and times and months we do. it's kind of mind blowing when you do a podcast for years, how over time and as like, you know, you're consistent and stable. And we've done this every single week since we started.

How many people reach out to us to say, can we be on your podcast? So some of that takes care of itself. But just like I always try to teach and tell my kids, here's the thing. Adults, for the most part, are doing their best in making stuff up. The idea that at some point you have life all figured out is a complete misnomer. It's just not how it works. And so in the same way, I mean,

Jason Allison (01:32)
you

Rob Paterson (01:44)
we don't just wanna talk about topics that come to us and we think are important. We really do want to discuss the things that are the most valuable for our listeners and would really be helpful for them. So that's really our aim. You and I'd probably talk about chipping technique and how to get an extra seven yards out of your driver or whatever if we were left up to our own devices, but.

The whole point here is to help others.

Jason Allison (02:10)
Yeah, we gotta actually think about other people. Fine. I know. Can you believe there are people out there that don't want to talk about how to get seven more yards out of their drive? I really can't believe those people exist, but I guess they do.

Rob Paterson (02:22)
Well, in all the golf companies now, like that's their whole thing, right? You could get as many as 20 extra yards. So come buy our new $800 driver. And it's like, what? Like I remember when an expensive driver was $200. ⁓

Jason Allison (02:30)
Right. Yes.

Oh yeah. Yeah. Okay. So now we're starting to go off on a rabbit trails. That's right. Oh man. Well, so speaking of that, I think you and I were talking a little bit ahead of time. One of the things we wanted to touch on today really brings this into, into focus because you know, golf and fun and hobbies like that are that's important to us, you know, and, and, and, they're

Rob Paterson (02:40)
We are. Now, this is like our passion project. We're talking about what we love. ⁓

Jason Allison (03:02)
deeper things than just golf that are important about the hobby and stuff. I think as I've been talking to pastors, helping them understand that there is a hierarchy of priorities that we have to, they're there and we need to establish them. We need to think about it. And I don't think there's one hierarchy that's the right one for every person, every leader in the world.

It's going to be different based on your situation, your circumstance, your context. so I don't know, we were just talking about how do you prioritize? What does that look like? And I thought, yeah, let's take a little time and just dive into that topic for a while and see if there's any, is there a thing like a hierarchy of priorities? What are you thinking?

Rob Paterson (03:45)
Yeah.

Well, I, ⁓ here recently, I mean, as, as it's true for everybody, stumbled upon a Charlie Kirk video in my feed on social media. And, this young lady was asking him and she said, Hey, you know, you're a husband, you're a father, you're a political figure, you know, you just have a lot of things and all of them require, you know, a lot from you. And she said, how in the world do you.

Jason Allison (03:52)
Yes.

Rob Paterson (04:10)
you know, manage just the demands from multiple areas like that. And I thought his answer was, it was simple, but it was really good. And he said, listen, I'm a big fan of Plato who talks about like a hierarchy and having structure. And he said, so I would just tell anybody, you know, you need to figure out in your life, even if it's just for right now, like what is the most important thing? What is the second most important thing? What is the third most important thing? And from there,

You know, you just need to understand that something being the most important thing means that other things are going to suffer so that you can focus more on what's most important. And you've just got to be okay with that. this, Jason, this is something I think us ministry types really, really struggle with. We can know what's most important, but man, for any number of reasons, whether it's external forces, our own internal guilt, whatever,

Jason Allison (04:45)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Rob Paterson (05:05)
we can get sucked into things that aren't even on the importance radar and spend just days or weeks doing things that we just aren't supposed to do.

Jason Allison (05:11)
Right.

Yeah. So do you think there's one set of priorities that every pastor, right, or every leader should adhere to? Or if not, how would you suggest people really start to come up with their priorities?

Rob Paterson (05:34)
Yeah, well, you know what? Maybe we sort of reverse engineer this and see where we get to. So I think for us, let's just maybe you and I talk about some of the things right now in this season that are priorities for us, and we'll see if ours are the same. Do you wanna go first or do you want me to go first? Awesome, so I would say, and we talked ⁓ in one of our last episodes just about me having a hip injection.

Jason Allison (05:51)
Okay, you go first.

Rob Paterson (06:01)
Our listeners have had to endure my whole surgery saga and all that kind of stuff. And so for me, and this has really been going on now for 10 months, I ⁓ have intentionally upped my water intake. I've intentionally tried to fuel differently in terms of the food choices that I make. I try to walk.

you know, miles and miles, multiple times a week. So, you know, for me, knowing I've had some arthritis issues and some of those things, you know, I'm, one of my priorities is saying, hey, listen, I'm 50 years old now. This kind of stuff is only gonna get harder, not easier. And so what are some things that I can do every day to be healthier physically?

so that I'm able to keep doing what I do for a good long time. Because if I just go, well, that's not important, and it's all about spiritual things and eternal things, well, guess what? If I go see Jesus next week instead of 30 years from now, it's gonna minimize my ability. So that's always super important. For me, again, like we talked when we had Bethany on recently, I just...

I always want to make sure that my spouse first and my kids are a priority because I can always find another church or another job, but my family is my family. so making sure that is always a priority and I'm doing everything I can to make those relationships robust and healthy matters a great deal for me. And then I like, lastly, I would just say, you know, I really do everything I can.

to focus on the things at my church that only I can do. And I try to empower people and develop people and equip people to do the rest of those things. I am not a micromanaging pastor. I am not interested in having control. I know plenty of pastors. Like one told me this not too long ago, like they were telling one of their leaders who decided to do something without their express written

Jason Allison (07:48)
Hmm.

Rob Paterson (08:12)
consent in triplicate and they're like, I'm the pastor. I have, and I'm just like, I'm never gonna be, I mean, unless someone's doing something weird or just like, you know, not biblical, I would be like, listen, you're the leader of this area. You have the passion, you have the desire. You're the one executing. I want you to do this how God has created you to do it. I don't want you to do it how I would do it or else I should be doing it, right? So yeah, I just.

Jason Allison (08:12)
Mm-hmm.

Rob Paterson (08:37)
I said this recently in a Sunday morning. I just want to give the church away. So for me, it's that sort of constant battle of trying to focus on what does Rob need to do and let's raise up and equip and empower people to do the rest. So those would be my like a few of the things I would say kind of come to the top for me. And some of those are, you know, like that last one is something I've just done for a long, long time. The last two really. And the first one, you know,

Jason Allison (08:55)
Mm-hmm.

Rob Paterson (09:04)
I try to be healthy, just with some of my health things that have popped up, that's just become a bigger, more consistent focus and priority.

Jason Allison (09:07)
Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, with me, it's interesting because I'm in a ⁓ time of transition. Like, you know, I'm, out of a local church ministry and into more of a regional network ministry. And that this is the first time I've ever been in this situation. Right. I mean, so I'm kind of, I'm, I'm in new, new territory for me. And so all the things that I used to have as my standard schedule, are gone.

And I'm trying to re so I'm actually in a time of figuring out my priorities in some of that. What you're going to say. Yeah.

Rob Paterson (09:43)
So I got, no, I got a question here because

I have often wondered this. So you and I have, we'll give people a peek into some of our private conversations. You know, in years past, really for gosh, a decade or more, you and I have had some offline type conversations about people who serve at the denominational level or even in regional roles and just, you know, like,

Man, we've known people and we've loved people and they've had enough history and track record where they can lead and do things and they don't and they won't because they're always trying to build the consensus and the unity that they already have. we're like, man, like, you know, so now that you are sort of in this transition, and I know you're busy and you're traveling all the time. We talk about that all the time in general. We talk about it even some on the podcast.

But like, you now that you aren't like in the local church with just all the inherent kind of busyness of the local church and all the inherent kind of weekly things that need to be executed on. I mean, you know, I know we said when we weren't serving in roles like that, but now that you are serving in a role like that, you know, do you feel some of that same guilt and pressure to kind of, you know, you know, worth your wage and all that stuff that, you know, we kind of.

poked people and it's like, listen, you're good. We love you. Just do the things you're saying. Or do you now kind of see the other side a bit too?

Jason Allison (11:10)
You know, I see the other side a bit too, but and some of it I think is more about personality than anything else, because I know my personality is I find value in what am I producing? And I'm not saying that's healthy or right. I'm just saying that I know that's my personality. so, you know, there's something about every week having a service to pull off, having a sermon to write, having

things going on that give you a sense of, hey, I did something, right? A sense of accomplishment every week. Well, I don't have that now. And so I find myself at times trying to do things just to be busy so that I feel like I'm doing something. And so this is where having my priorities in line here helped me understand, okay, wait a minute, what is most important and why is it most important?

Rob Paterson (11:59)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Allison (12:01)
And

Rob Paterson (12:01)
Mm.

Jason Allison (12:01)
then why am I doing what I do? And is it more about me wanting to feel important or is this about actually doing what God has called me to do? And so that's where I really, I wish I could say I've got that figured out, but I don't think I do. I still wrestle with it and trying to navigate some of those times, especially when

I'm in a busy season right now. and I'm looking around going, have three projects that I'd really like to, you know, like work on that are just creating something, right? Maybe it's content of some kind or a tool or resource. And I just don't have the time or energy in this, like this little three week, you know, season to make progress on that. And, and it kind of bothers me. I don't know if that answers your question.

Rob Paterson (12:48)
Hmm, yeah. No, no, that's

to me. That's super helpful because I think about this. I remember reading a book probably 1520 years ago now and I think it was Andy Stanley's book Deep and Wide and in that book he talked. Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't. I don't know, but ⁓ he talked about core values and and it was a very helpful thing for me because.

Jason Allison (13:02)
yeah.

Rob Paterson (13:13)
⁓ you know, I, I'd sort of developed core values multiple times for various churches or organizations or initiatives or whatever. But, ⁓ you know, there were some thoughts about like, Hey, listen, core values aren't like generic things. So many churches, when you pull up their website, you know, like, like they say things like, you know, we value the, the inherent inerrancy of the scriptures or whatever the word of God. And, and I'm like,

Jason Allison (13:37)
Yeah.

Rob Paterson (13:40)
That's not a core value. That is something that ought to be universally true for any organization that calls itself a church. That's not a core value. That's just a foundational fact.

Jason Allison (13:46)
Yeah, that does it.

that doesn't

distinguish you from any other, you know, Bible believing church.

Rob Paterson (13:54)
And even if your response to what we're saying is, well, nowadays it does distinguish us because some people, listen, we understand what you're saying, that's still not a value. And then the other thing was so good. It's like your core values ought not to be things that are aspirational. We wish we were. They ought to reflect who you actually are and what you actually do. So, you know, from that vantage point,

You know, as we're talking about this, I would say, you know, for people who are leaders in the local church, who are pastors, who are ministry types, it would be very easy to answer this, well, my priorities are my devotional time and prayer and the word of God. you know, we'd, and those things can be true, like of your church, but I would just encourage you to say, you know, like, what are the things in this season of life right now

for any number of reasons. It's probably time to have another podcast episode about this, but I feel like almost every marriage has seasons or at least one significant season of struggle where there's that question, whether it's a mild question or a big question like, are we gonna survive this? Are we gonna make it? Is this gonna work? And so if you're in a season like that where,

you've become more roommates or ministry partners with your spouse and you don't have like deep connection and you don't like spend time together. Probably making that one of if not the absolute top priority in your life for the next season of time, the next year or two would be a very, very wise thing to do. So I just encourage our listeners, like this is not a, don't,

Jason Allison (15:33)
Yeah.

Rob Paterson (15:37)
overly spiritualize this. Yeah, like talk to God and hear from him. But man, make this personal and specific. Like what are the things that you, your family, your ministry needs to be healthy and live a long life?

Jason Allison (15:54)
Well, and that's a couple of things come to mind as you were, you were talking there is, you know, the, first thing like for me, my, my personal priorities generically, like over the course of my life, as I look back, I'm seeing these priorities, right? It's not that I necessarily aspirationally was shooting for them. just see, you know, one that I've a theme that I've seen about people over projects, right? I value people over accomplishing a project.

Now that doesn't mean I don't want to accomplish projects, but I don't want to use a person to accomplish a project. I'm going to use a project to get to know a person. And that's just the way I operate. I don't mean one's better or worse. In my life, that's a priority, developing the relationships in those processes. And so that's, which is why we created this podcast to engage, equip and encourage bastards later, right? Because it's, it's the people in the thing. And that's just, again, just the way I'm wired.

And so the second thing that I was thinking as you were talking there was the way you're describing this, think our priorities can shift over time. Right. And while that may be an overarching core value in my life, my priority within that is going to shift. What kind of people am I going to really focus on? Is it my spouse in the season because of, whatever the circumstances may be, or is it, you know, a group of people?

Rob Paterson (16:53)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Allison (17:12)
that are gonna be a priority for a season just because of the situation and the circumstances. And so I think taking some time to, I don't even say prioritize or create a hierarchy, but maybe it's what are the core and then how are they expressed in different seasons is an important thing. I'm doing a cohort, it's called Handcrafted Calling, Clarity House developed this and...

I've been certified in it and it's a lot of fun to lead it. But one of the things that we do, I just did took a cohort through this particular session a couple nights ago, but the question that we ask, we're talking about your basically what drives you and what are your burdens. And because that begins to clarify what's important to you, right? And the whole idea of this, we're trying to help people understand their passions. That's really it.

Rob Paterson (17:54)
Mm.

Jason Allison (18:02)
But that idea of what drives you and I love this question. What wakes you up in the morning? Right? I mean, what just gets you out of bed because you gotta deal with this is man. I can't wait to dive into this, but your burden. The question for that is what keeps you up at night, right? What are the things that you can't get to sleep? Cause this is bothering you and helping people wrestle through that. And in the process we also talk about their.

Rob Paterson (18:18)
Mm.

Jason Allison (18:27)
Well, I call them stars and scars of their life, the hinge moments in their life, the high points and low points. And when you put those things together, you start to see, you know, what's really important to a person and what happened the other night in one of our sessions, a lady was responding and she shared a couple things and I said, you know, that's great, but why did that bother you? And she says, well, you know, it was X, Y, and Z. And I said, okay, but then why did that?

really get under your skin. Like, cause I mean, that's fine, but like there's something more going on here. Why? And I said, you know, you've really got to ask why about seven times before you get to the true answer. But I mean with, and I said, I'm going to annoy you. I'm so sorry, but we're going to do this. And so, but we, went down that path about three or four why questions. And all of a sudden she looked at me and this is all via zoom, right? And you could see the light bulb go off where she was like, now I see why that bothers me so much.

Rob Paterson (18:57)
Hmm.

Jason Allison (19:23)
because this is a value in my life and that just totally goes against it. sometimes we just need to process that with someone with some really good questions to help us identify these things.

Rob Paterson (19:27)
Mm.

Yeah.

I still remember you did that exact same thing when we did that training for River of Life and Pastor Charles Whitaker's church. And, you know, one of their leaders had a question and you did, you sort of did that construct and then asked in it. It's funny because you're like, that's silly. But then you do it you're like, my goodness. Like I got to some conclusions. I just didn't realize before, ⁓ you know,

Jason Allison (19:39)
yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Rob Paterson (19:57)
When you were talking about like just seasons and how priorities can induce you, there's some things that are probably always beyond the list, right? But I was thinking about, know, and maybe some of our listeners, you know, on our reels or whatever, like behind me is my kitchen. And it's a very nice kitchen. Like, you can't even really see it, but it's a very nice kitchen. And it took a long time to do, and it took a ton of money.

And then it took even longer to pay off everything. It's all paid off now, but all that took a while. And down the hallway is my bathroom that like 10 months ago, I spent a lot of money to have a guy come put a nice shower in and there's still other things I need to do some drywall work. I need to put a floor down. So that bathroom with that beautiful new shower isn't functional right now, right? So quite honestly, one of my priorities

over the next month is to try to get that bathroom done because it's terrible to have to go down into the basement to our one other dingy bathroom. That's a priority. That shouldn't be a priority forever, but that's something that needs to get done for a number of important reasons. When you were talking about how things shift over time, I was thinking for me,

Like I was always the guy when I was preparing to teach or preach. Like I wanted to have it like so dialed in, like where I would know like what I was doing. I wasn't ever a manuscript guy, but I really wanted to have it like practiced and rehearsed. And I still remember the first time I attended in person the global leadership summit. I was in college and some speaker had canceled and they brought Irwin McManus in and he was, I was, you were there in person too?

Jason Allison (21:37)
I was at that one.

Yes,

yeah, I know.

Rob Paterson (21:42)
Like we

were in the presence of greatness and we didn't even know it. That was cool. So, and he did a thing where he's like, you know, I got here. Cause like they called him in last minute when somebody couldn't be there. Right. And he did an amazing job. And, and, and he's like, I got here and they said, do you have notes? And he goes, notes. And he held up his Bible. Like, here's my notes. Right.

Jason Allison (21:53)
yeah.

Rob Paterson (22:01)
And I think as part of that, he told a story about like, just got to the point in life where it's like, I don't want to read other people's stuff anymore. I want to start creating some of my own, which is when he started writing books. And so just some of that, like, hey, I'm going to spend so much time with Jesus and so much time in the scriptures and so much time praying that like, when I stand up, I'm going to have something of substance, you know, to say.

That concept frightened me and inspired me all at the same time. And so I would say, like in this season of life, I still prepare and I still want to feel very confident in terms of what I have with me as I come to whatever platform I'm on sharing. But I also, you

just as I've gotten older, like I really, really, really value. And I think if you're in ministry, you know this, like you know sometimes like you stand up to say something and you've got stuff planned and you got stuff to say, but it just feels like there's behind it, right? Like no power, no, and you can do the right things and have energy and know, elocution and communicate well, but.

Jason Allison (23:16)
Yeah.

Rob Paterson (23:17)
You know, you're just like, can't do this forever because I need a little something behind this. And so for me, like, man, that's the thing that's a bigger priority now, even than my preparation is to say, I want to make sure I spend enough time with Jesus that anytime I open my mouth, there's something of ⁓ value that's real ⁓ that comes out. And which is why I love sometimes when I get invited to speak at places where it's not like my own place where we have two things like

Jason Allison (23:37)
Mm-hmm.

Rob Paterson (23:45)
And it's one of the reasons why I probably still go a little bit overboard on my preparation is because I want our two experiences to be as close to identical as possible. And you can't do that unless you, you know, have a lot, but I love environments where it's like, Hey, this is like a one time thing. And so it can kind of be what it is and I don't have to replicate it perfectly again. just, there's a little extra freedom there and I have a lot of fun in those spaces.

Jason Allison (23:54)
Right.

Yeah,

yeah, yeah, I'm this weekend, I'm preaching somewhere and I've got like, I literally have one page that's a picture. And that's my notes. And because I'm talking about the importance of scripture and the importance of this and how this you know, how it all works. And, know, and I'm just I'm excited to go and share that. And I don't need it manuscripted out. I don't you know, that's going to be able to just

But I agree with you 100 % and what I'm finding now that I'm traveling more, I'm not, my rhythm and routine is thrown off. And so I have to be extra mindful of am I spending time with Jesus? Like I have to prioritize that back to our topic, right? That has to be because it doesn't just naturally happen right now in my particular season.

Rob Paterson (24:43)
Mm.

Jason Allison (25:02)
you know, I always Everybody that I've talked to that, you know, I've got my chair Right that I I go to and I've got my coffee warmer right next to it and I've got you know all the stuff and I'm like Boy, that'd be awesome if I was home

Rob Paterson (25:14)
And that'd be really

expensive to bring your chair with you everywhere you flew, wouldn't it?

Jason Allison (25:18)
Yeah, yeah, that's a little

outrageous and so but I have to get creative with that but the question that it it forces me to answer is is this really important to you? Right and that so maybe one more thing I want to talk about in this another angle of this I feel like oftentimes our values and our priorities they are clarified in conflict and and and what I mean by that is when two priorities hit each other

That's when you have to decide which is actually more important. And that happens in ministry all the time, right? I mean, we talk about, you know, we have a core value of excellence and we have a core value of welcoming people as they are. Well, okay. But what happens when one of those people who are coming as they are becomes a greeter and you know, they really would help things out if they take a shower before Sunday morning. Like how do you...

How do you deal with that? How do you prioritize things?

Rob Paterson (26:15)
or they don't know any better and they're handing somebody like a bulletin as they walk in and they're like, I'm so effing happy to see you. And you're like, ⁓ like that's not how we want you to greet them as they're walking into the sanctuary for worship. You know what I mean? Like, but that's just sort of, they have not become yet. And so they're, you know, yeah, not as polished.

Jason Allison (26:21)
Yeah, yeah.

right? Yeah.

Yes. And so our values

begin to conflict. And that's really when things become important. my value of wanting to serve pastors and really to help my handcrafted calling statement is I want to help people achieve their God-given dreams. Well, what happens when moving toward that takes away the rhythm and just the natural routine of my life?

And so now I have to actually, if I'm gonna pursue that calling and stay connected with Jesus so that I'm doing it out of my ministry, my relationship with Him, what am I willing to sacrifice in order to stay connected with Him in the midst of all this? And that's really where those priorities begin. And I know when I do any type of vision day or anything with the church and we're...

And they're saying, we really want to accomplish X, Y, or Z, right? We want to make this happen. We're all in. And I'm like, OK, now what are you willing to sacrifice to do that? What are you willing to stop doing? What are you willing to say no to in order to achieve that goal that you've set? And that's usually when the room gets quiet.

Rob Paterson (27:31)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So Jason, I completely agree that. mean, that's so good, right? Like we can, we can sit in our little ivory towers or in our chairs with our coffee station right beside, and we can like make a cool list of three things. I would say three to five, five max three is probably even better. Cause here's the truth, right? If everything's a priority and I talk to people all the time, I have counseling sessions, whatever.

People are like, no, right now in this season, every, all of these things are important. And I just, can't tell you how many times I've told people if everything is important, nothing is important. You've got to prioritize. You just have to tell me what number one, number two, number three, and they've, you know, they've got to be like that. So, you know, as you know, and then when we kind of live life kind of in the heat of battle, that's when we actually get to make decisions. So,

Jason Allison (28:31)
Yeah.

Rob Paterson (28:32)
I'd love to in a few minutes kind of land the plane by talking about possible resources that people could use to do some of these things. But let's just say, you know, some of our listeners, they're like, I know, this is the most important thing in my life. And this is the second most important thing in my life. Okay, so they have that list. But then they struggle, they struggle again with like the internal guilt, they struggle with, you know, whatever they struggle, you know, with the pressures of

you know, external forces that are always asking for or demanding. So maybe each of us would have one or two things we would say, here's when I have the list, here's how I actually live it out. ⁓ And I got a couple that maybe I'll start with. So for me, and I've been doing this now for 10 months, I actually pay a health coach every month out of my own pocket. This is not like an insurance thing.

Jason Allison (29:12)
Yeah.

Rob Paterson (29:25)
⁓ and, it's not, you know, it's not insane amount, but it's not nothing. I mean, it's like, it's a couple, it's a couple hundred dollars a month. So I'll just tell you what it is. you know, because if I don't have consistent accountability, I know that I'm not, I mean, I could still succeed, but I'm not going to be as successful knowing that I'm going to have check-ins. I'm going to have, I got a report. Have you been doing the thing you agreed to do?

Jason Allison (29:30)
It's enough to feel it.

Rob Paterson (29:53)
You know, so for me, that is a huge, huge, huge thing. Another thing that I figured out and I have a resource that actually helped me do this so we can talk about after a bit. But, you know, one of my resources actually encourages you to do this thing where you take ⁓ a week on a calendar, blank calendar, and map it out, not with all the stuff you know you have, but just if I was creating my ideal week and there were

There was nothing that was gonna enter the week that was gonna mess it all up. What would the ideal perfect week look like? And so I designed that. And the great thing about it was, and I could tell my assistant, I wanna make sure I'm leaving the house by this time every, or the office by this time every day so that I can get home, I can make dinner and have dinner with my family. Even if I have an evening meeting, can still, this is what I would like to do in a perfect world.

And then I also started saying, listen, even though I'm more of a night owl than a morning person, you know, I'm of the age by the time it gets late at night, I want to go to bed. Right. So, so for me, like time, you know, before I start responding to text messages and, whatever else that's, that's come in, like in the morning, if I can do my creative work, if I can read, if I can, you know, do that sort of.

deep dive with God and be connected with him so that when I get into a meeting or into the office at noon, I have some foundation and I have some substance. So for me, I block off my mornings and when I go to sleep at night, my phone, I don't know, around nine o'clock, it clicks into do not disturb mode and it does not drop that until noon. And there's only two people on the planet

Jason Allison (31:36)
Hmm.

Rob Paterson (31:39)
that if they text or call me, it rings through. And that's only because Christopher, my oldest son, went in and changed him and my wife so that if they reach out to me, that pops through. Other than that, nobody pops through. So I just have my morning time protected and it just enables me to get a whole bunch of things done that I need to get done in order to do the rest of the stuff really successfully.

Jason Allison (32:04)
Yeah.

Rob Paterson (32:05)
And

so I'm just like, some people might hear that and go, I could never do that. No, no, no, you could absolutely do that. You just, or the pain of thinking through how I pull this off, how I let people know that I have given permission, whether it was implicit or explicit, that they can bug me and do whatever, whenever. And then you're, you it's like, these are the kinds of pastors that have to like,

Jason Allison (32:11)
Yeah, you don't want to do that. Yeah.

Rob Paterson (32:29)
get up early and stay up late and write their sermons like all night Saturday night and preach sleepless on Sunday mornings like do not do this. You need to prioritize, carve out the time you need and then protect that at all costs.

Jason Allison (32:33)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Well,

that's when you make a priority, you are making something else less of a priority. And so what you're doing by creating that do not disturb, I mean, as the example, right is, Hey, this is a priority. And, and yes, that means I may not get the phone call. I may not get the text, you know, until noon. And that means I may disappoint some people and, know, I may frustrate them because they really needed me to respond. And.

But you're like, no, it's more important, right, priority for me to do this than that. so, okay, so I was doing the SoulCare seminar as last year, I think, with a group of people down in the DC, Virginia area. And one of the pastors, his wife was actually there with him, they co-pastor and they were talking and I was talking about this idea of Sabbath, right? And prioritizing Sabbath and taking a day to do this.

And his wife starts laughing. And I finally, and you know, there's 20 of us, 25 of us in the room. can't remember how many. you know, I said, okay, you gotta, you gotta share this what's going on, you know, and she said, Well, you know, my, my husband really prioritizes his Sabbath and, you know, treats it as almost sacrosanct, right? And, because a couple weeks ago, somebody was trying to get ahold of him on a Monday, that's his day off, you know, and

trying to get a hold of him and they couldn't because he had his phone just like you said on do not disturb. So they called me to get to him, right? And it was a funeral home calling to say someone had died and they needed to plan the service. so she said, she held the phone down and told him, hey, this is who's calling. And he looked up and said, well, you know what? Today's Monday. They'll still be dead on Tuesday.

And I just thought.

Rob Paterson (34:22)
The Bible

does talk about this, let the dead bury their own.

Jason Allison (34:25)
Exactly, so I thought, but you know what that is, you know, maybe a bit extreme, maybe not, but the idea of hey, let's let's protect this because it's important. And when, like you said, I love the way you say that when everything's important, nothing's important. ⁓

Rob Paterson (34:40)
Yeah, yeah, well,

yeah, and Jason, I've seen this and heard this over and over again, so, and you could take any, and sort of plug it in here, but I'll just use like a very obvious one for pastors. So I've heard people say this. I know if I gave more time to it, I could preach better. And I know if I preached better, it would have a positive impact on our church. More people would likely attend.

So our attendance would be up, we'd have more people to serve and volunteer, we'd have more givers. You know, like literally, if I took the extra time every week to become a better communicator, to spend more time in the scriptures, to prep more, I would preach better. And me preaching better is gonna have a positive impact on literally every aspect almost of our ministry. But I can't because there's this other time suck thing that somebody

you know, wants me to do, expects me to do, and so I have to do that, that thing might be helping, might, I say might, be helping one person, you know, but it's not gonna move the needle. There's probably a dozen or more other people who could do that same one thing that you keep getting sucked into, and you allow yourself to have that.

Jason Allison (35:51)
Yeah.

Rob Paterson (35:55)
instead of doing the one thing that could make a difference or move the needle for the ministry as a whole. Again, this is a very common story for us ministry types that we have got to do better.

Jason Allison (36:07)
Yeah. Yeah. So we're talking and I'm in my brain. just realized we need to develop a tool to help people work through this. And so like a downloadable PDF that just helps them process, you know, some of these questions and work through it. And I know you've used a tool in the past that, and you still use the kind of daytime or it's not that what's it's a, my mind just went blank.

Rob Paterson (36:30)
Yeah, so

yeah, so and again, I think this is a great place to sort of land where we talked about some resources and these I mean, these are some resources I use and have used. The resource isn't the important part. It's like, you know, it's not old. Let's get Rob's resource. It's like find something that works for you and utilize it, which is why I said I think everybody would benefit from a coach, even if you're like, I can't do like I can't afford that. Well, you know what? Do it for a season.

Jason Allison (36:47)
Yeah. Yeah.

Rob Paterson (36:55)
Just do it, do it for a few months, figure out a way to prioritize and do it and just see the impact that it has. For me, I love the tools that used to be Michael Hyatt and company, but now it's full focus. So the full focus planner is great. They also now have like a whole kind of life planning tool where you can literally map out the next five years of your life in all of the domains, which is super awesome.

And they always talk about the double win, I think is so cool, especially for us in ministry, because I, Jason, I kind of feel like going back to priorities that one of my biggest jobs nowadays isn't just to like say the right things or true things or inspiring things. It's actually the model practices that, you know, my community, my church, you know, the people of God around me maybe have lost touch with. So.

Jason Allison (37:38)
Mm. Yeah.

Rob Paterson (37:47)
One of the reasons I do prioritize time away and vacations and pace and prioritizing my family isn't just because I value those things, but because my community needs to see those things in greater ways. ⁓ So, you know, I just think, you know, they talk about the double win, how to win at home and at work. And man, we're so much better when we're winning in both locations.

Jason Allison (37:59)
So good.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I am a couple questions that I was thinking of that people can ask and and I'm really I just are already jotted down some ideas. I think you and I are going to create a tool for people on this one because it's so it's so vital. know some questions if I gave more time and you just said this, but I like it if you put it in this tool. If I gave more time to X fill in the blank, it would have a 5X or 10 X impact.

on how I'm doing ministry or how I'm doing life, you know, and then say, if it would, then why aren't you? And then what do you need to sacrifice to do that? And along, yeah, go ahead.

Rob Paterson (38:47)
Or,

even if they, even if you don't have one of those things in mind right now, maybe you're like, hey, the two or three things I need to do well, I do well, great. But what are the things that you're currently doing that, you know, it might make someone else smile and feel good, but if you're honest, it's not making a difference. It's not moving the needle. It's not helping. And literally, you're gonna be stuck in chaplain mode with that situation or that person.

until you or they die. What are the things that are like that, that you give lots of time and energy to that aren't accomplishing anything that you need to sort of put an expiration date on so that you can reallocate your resources, even if that's just to you hanging out with Jesus or loving your kids or spending time with your spouse. Those are good things.

Jason Allison (39:35)
Well, and that's kind of my next question is put a price tag on it and then budget accordingly. Right. And by a price tag, could be your time. could be, but I mean, it costs you to do anything, you know, something. And so go ahead and do that. You know, I still remember a long time ago, Andy Stanley saying, do for one, what you wish you could do for all. And you can argue with that all you want, but there is a point at which, okay, just because you can't do it for everybody doesn't mean you can't do it for one.

Rob Paterson (39:40)
Ooh. Yeah.

Jason Allison (40:02)
And sometimes doing it for one is all you can do, but it still fulfills a priority in your life of serving, of helping, being, you know, so I think that would be good. And, and then even asking those questions around, know, what, keeps you up and what wakes you up? like what are those things and really dive into that because it could help you shape some of those priorities.

Rob Paterson (40:21)
Yeah, yeah. And you know what, that whole idea of like designing your ideal week could be a great like last thing. Like when you see, Hey, here's some of the things I need to prioritize. Like if I could live this way every week, it would really help me accomplish these things. Perfect. So like do this exercise. So you at least have the bullseye in mind, right? And, and, and it's never going to work like that, but

Jason Allison (40:26)
Yeah. ⁓ yeah.

Rob Paterson (40:47)
If you don't have that picture in your head, you're not even going to be close.

Jason Allison (40:50)
Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think this, was a great conversation that I hope people got something out of. And if, if nothing else came out of it, you are, and I are going to work on a tool together to help with this because I'm, I'm excited. I feel like this would be, this can be extremely useful and helpful to pastors. And so, Hey, if you, if you feel like you got something out of this, or even if you didn't, I don't really care, share and subscribe.

Rob Paterson (41:04)
Yeah, so good.

Jason Allison (41:17)
just do it because it's the right thing to do and it should be a priority in your life. But also please reach out, let us know what's going on in your life. Let us know some things you'd like for us to talk about or even some people that you think would be a amazing guest to have that you think what they're doing could really be a blessing to the pastors. Because we do, Rob, you we said from day one, we're going to engage, equip and encourage pastors and leaders and we just want to keep doing that. Thanks for your time. Thanks for ⁓

Rob Paterson (41:21)
Amen.

Jason Allison (41:46)
being part of the Church Talk family, we are just excited to serve you and look forward to seeing you soon. Have a great week.