The Weight of the Wait with Sam Wegner

In this episode of the Church Talk podcast, hosts Jason Allison and Rob Paterson engage in a heartfelt conversation with Sam Wegner, who shares his journey through personal challenges, including his wife's battle with cancer. The discussion emphasizes the importance of community, hobbies, and the concept of hope during times of waiting. Sam reflects on the struggles of control and the necessity of relinquishing it to find peace. The conversation also touches on the significance of having open discussions about life and death, and how faith plays a crucial role in navigating these difficult topics.

The Weight of the Wait

Connect with Sam Wegner

Instagram - @samwegnerjr

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Personal Reflections
02:51 The Importance of Community and Hobbies
05:37 Introducing Sam Wegner: Background and Identity
08:23 The Weight of the Weight: Sam's Journey
10:59 Understanding Hope in Times of Waiting
23:18 Faith, Hope, and Waiting
25:56 The Skill of Waiting
30:59 Control vs. Trust
34:07 Facing Life's Challenges
37:27 Conversations About Life and Death
43:04 The Weight of the Weight

Follow us on Insta @churchtalkproject. www.churchtalkproject.com

Transcript

Jason Allison (00:00)
Well, hey everybody, welcome back to the Church Talk podcast with Rob and Jason. It is really good to have you here. I'm so glad that you're listening. We've got just, I just got an amazing guest today. I'm excited. It's going to be a lot of fun. Rob, man, you've been playing a lot of golf lately. I'm slightly jealous, but not really because you and I got to play together last week, which is so rare. And then we, you know, got to kick some butt on the golf course and that's

That's just always fun, let's be honest.

Sam Wegner (00:27)
you

Rob Paterson (00:28)
Absolutely. You know, it's interesting. actually shared this yesterday at church and I was reflecting on it because I had a routine procedure last night or last night, last week in the hospital. And of course, as is common, I got there. My blood pressure was sky high, which everybody talks about white coat syndrome. I have no idea if that's why or not. Like when I was leaving after it, you know, it was it was fine and all that stuff.

Jason Allison (00:48)
Mm-hmm.

Rob Paterson (00:54)
And as I reflected on that, most of the things that I do in my life, I feel a weight, I feel an intensity, I wanna bring my A game. And so there's just a level of stress and pressure that goes along with that. And that's like, I would say nine out of every 10 things I do. And then there are a few things where if I'm being honest that I really do feel like a sensor for Preev. Like when I'm doing them, it literally is a, ah.

And I think part of it is just that that's how I'm wired. And so I think even when I was like a kid, like I had high blood pressure readings, like it's just sort of this intensity. so golf is just one of those places for me where when I'm doing that, especially with people that I love, it's just fun. And it just gives me like a chance to breathe and rest and really not care about all the other million things in the world.

Jason Allison (01:42)
Yeah.

Rob Paterson (01:49)
So, so yeah, it was super fun even though it was a cold rainy day that we ended up golfing on. Man, what a gift just to be able to spend time with people you love and do something you enjoy.

Jason Allison (02:01)
Yeah, and you got to spend it with me on top of that.

Rob Paterson (02:04)
Yeah, yeah and hit it like I mean we hit we both hit lots of good golf shots but man that one six iron to 186 so they hit to two and a half feet and we tapped in for Eagle that was that was a good hole and that sealed our victory really.

Jason Allison (02:09)
Ugh.

Sam Wegner (02:15)
Hey.

Jason Allison (02:17)
It did, it did. And then I did the eagle dance and it was just an amazing day. It really was.

Rob Paterson (02:22)
I think we

probably ought to get that on camera and show our listeners at some point the eagle dance. I don't even know what that is honestly.

Jason Allison (02:26)
Yeah, I'm

I'm pretty glad we didn't get that on camera, but either way it was it was good. And I think for all the pastors and leaders out there listening, I think the lesson is pretty obvious. Man, you got to spend time with people that you just enjoy being around doing something that relaxes you. You know, we had Mitch on a month ago or so talking about running on full what that's like. But I tell you, every every.

Every guest that we tend to have that has anything to do with replenishing that has anything to do with staying healthy for the long haul. It involves community. It involves some trusted friends and some people around you. so I definitely think that is something that, you know, if you don't have that, you need to find it and it will not find you. You have to step out, you know, I mean, that's, if you aren't willing to step out and talk to some people, then you're not gonna.

Rob Paterson (03:09)
Yeah.

Jason Allison (03:18)
It's not going to just fall in your lap. so yeah, and you and I have worked hard over the years.

Rob Paterson (03:20)
Yep. And

for sure. you know, Jason, I would say too, like if someone were to ask you, know, pastor, church leader, you know, what's your hobby? Like, what do you do for fun? And you don't have an answer to that question or your answer is something that you have not done in the last six months. You know, we call shenanigans on that. You really do need something that you do a lot more consistently with people if at all possible.

And it'll be super helpful. So Jason, before you introduce our guest today, I was thinking about this. In my small group last night, I kind of confessed something. said, you know, my life would be so much easier if I had whatever is in most people that's like the preach to the choir mode. know, like I just, you know, for whatever reason, maybe I did when I was 20, I don't know. like for most of my adult life, I just can't stand that.

Jason Allison (03:51)
Yeah.

Rob Paterson (04:15)
And so for me, like my mode is to push, to question, to challenge, you know, like it's just, and I try to do it in a very optimistic, you know, and energetic way. but I just don't have the rah rah, let's tell everybody exactly what they want to hear and get them all fired up thing. I don't, I don't have it. ⁓ so I want to push, you know, I really do. Like, and I was thinking about that because our guest today is from Texas.

Jason Allison (04:34)
You don't.

Rob Paterson (04:42)
And you and I live in the great state of Ohio. And like the very first game of the season was, you know, the Ohio State Buckeyes kind of, you know, having their way with Arch Manning. And I thought that was pretty sweet.

Jason Allison (04:53)
Yeah,

it was. And that's a good way to really tick off a guess before we've even allowed him to say a word. ⁓ But you know.

Sam Wegner (05:02)
Well, so

Rob Paterson (05:02)
We don't even know if he's a football guy. Yeah.

Sam Wegner (05:04)
allow me to reciprocate.

Jason Allison (05:06)
Yes, please come in.

Sam Wegner (05:08)
my, I'm actually a Pittsburgh Steelers fan.

Rob Paterson (05:12)
Bye!

Jason Allison (05:12)
⁓

well, let's end the interview right now. I'm just kidding. Just kidding. We did. We did.

Sam Wegner (05:14)
Yeah. Okay. I mean, but you guys went there. I mean, you had to go there. So,

actually, my son, gave me a really special gift and, we went together a couple of weekends to go, go to, to Pittsburgh. was my first time actually being in Acresure and, we also, we also

Caught a penguins game. So it was a back-to-back kind of a thing penguins Rangers and then Steelers Browns and I'm trying to remember How that game ended up? Hmm. I'll have to go back and check the scores. I don't don't quite remember my memories fading right now

Rob Paterson (05:48)
Hmm. Hmm.

Jason Allison (05:50)
Well, if...

Rob Paterson (05:52)
Well,

well, I don't care about, you know, the brown anyway, I probably shouldn't say anything too inflammatory, but the Browns are completely irrelevant to me. Sam, I would say, man, the, the energy, mean, it's so much fun to watch a football game in Pittsburgh, ⁓ which is so great. And, you know, the day we're recording this, man, like,

Sam Wegner (06:08)
yeah, it is. It really is.

Rob Paterson (06:14)
The Colts have looked unstoppable. for Pittsburgh to get a win over Indianapolis yesterday was impressive, especially after not looking great the week before. So.

Sam Wegner (06:18)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, no, we've

been, we've been up and down here, but, hopefully we'll pull it together before, ⁓ for the season ends. We've got, we've got a rough road ahead.

Rob Paterson (06:30)
Yeah?

Jason Allison (06:31)
Yeah, I actually spent the weekend.

Yeah, I spent the weekend up in Cleveland. My wife and I, I went up to visit a pastor and then my wife came with me and we just spent the weekend up there and we stayed in a hotel and we were actually looking down onto the stadium, the Browns Stadium there. And I mean, they weren't playing so there was no stench or anything coming up from it. They were out of town, but

Sam Wegner (06:47)
Hmm.

Jason Allison (06:54)
It was at least, you know, it was kind of cool just to see that in Lake Erie right behind it. It was really nice. It's kind of a cool, cool view, but yeah. Well, Hey, you have now heard his voice. We have with us, the one and only Sam Wagner and Sam is, you are an author. you've been involved in ministry in some way, or form your entire life. you, I heard you earlier, your son of a, of missionaries in Italy. and, and I see here you graduated from Appalachian.

Rob Paterson (07:00)
That's beautiful.

Jason Allison (07:19)
Bible college in Mount Hope, West Virginia, or as my relatives who live near their West by God, Virginia. and, you you've served as a pastor, a teacher, an elder, a small group leader. And I know you, you currently, in, Houston, Texas, you, you are a chaplain for young adults at faith Bible church in, in Woodlands, Texas. And I, from your, your blurb, on the book and so forth, it says they,

Sam Wegner (07:27)
Ha

Jason Allison (07:45)
The young adults there call you Uncle Sam. And you you kind of got the look of Uncle Sam, like the character as well, with the beard and the gray and it's great.

Sam Wegner (07:48)
They do.

Well.

Yeah, it's not really a patriotic thing. It's actually a, a, a real life thing because, my, my brother, my only sibling, had four children and then adopted six more. And several of those kids are still in the, young adults ministry, including, the young lady who leads it. She's my niece.

Jason Allison (08:12)
wow.

Sam Wegner (08:24)
And so there are plenty of people around that just naturally call me uncle Sam. And my brother was coming into town. one day he had, had some, virtual interaction with one of the kids there and, and, but they were meeting for the first time. so there was some familiarity there, but she was uncertain about what, how to address him. And, one of my other nieces.

just said, just call him dad. That's, that's what we all do. Right. That's where the rest of us call him. And I piped up and I said, well, I've been trying to get her to call me dad for a long time and she just won't do it. And, so that's when she kicked in and she's told me the story that, she had been talking to somebody else in the church about me and.

She had just naturally called me uncle Sam. And then she told me that she'd overheard some other, one of the other kids, just in casual conversation talking to me about it as uncle Sam. So I said, well, I guess that's it. That's what you call me. And, know, it's kind of, it's kind of neat because when you get into those twenties and thirties, you know, depending on how you were raised, it's not kosher always to address.

Jason Allison (09:28)
you

Yeah.

Sam Wegner (09:35)
somebody who's older by their first name and, yet, you know, Mr. Wagner sounds way, way too formal. so, I get an awful lot of, you know, Hey, you, or they point out, you know, they just avoid using a name whatsoever. but ever since, you know, that conversation, I was like, okay, that's who I am. I'm uncle Sam. So I actually had them made me make me a name tag that says uncle Sam.

Jason Allison (09:49)
Mm-hmm.

Nice.

Sam Wegner (10:00)
And so that's how I introduced myself to to all the newcomers and that kind of thing. And it's really kind of cool because it, it fosters that level of familiarity ⁓ and kind of breaks down some of those, those barriers and allows me to be the goofy uncle ⁓ and, and still be somebody that they can.

Rob Paterson (10:00)
That's great.

Jason Allison (10:05)
Yeah.

Mm.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Sam Wegner (10:25)
you know,

look up to respect and, take advice from. So it's really worked out very well, but it was completely unplanned.

Jason Allison (10:33)
⁓ Well.

Rob Paterson (10:33)
It's always fun

to see how those things develop for all of us in life. Sam, I don't know how this works for you, but I know for me, when I'm in a bookstore or get an email or whatever and I see a book title, sometimes I'm captivated by the title because I'm like, that's a cool title. I wish I would have thought of that title. And other times, man, it really pushes into me because I think, ooh.

I think I know what they're gonna get at in this book and that seems like a really timely and important thing. And the title of your book did both of those things to me. And so would you tell us and our listeners a little bit about what inspired you to write The Weight of the Weight and talk a little bit about it?

Sam Wegner (11:20)
Yeah, so this December, it will have been 10 years since my wife was diagnosed with breast cancer. And so she had a right mastectomy and there were some other complications that kind of extended the time that it took in order for her to.

have a reconstruction done and those kind of things. So we were about five years into it when we got the metastatic diagnosis. We thought we were almost done, but it turned out that the cancer came back. And when breast cancer metastasizes, it comes to either your brain, your bones, your liver, or your lungs. That's where it usually shows up.

In her case, it was just her bones, but they were important bones. It was her spine. She had a couple on her hips and a few on her ribs, but the biggest ones were in the middle of her back. And so we started a chemo regimen and that went for about a year that worked well for about a year, then it stopped working.

And when that happened, the oncologist that had been with us for all six years now told us that she needed to refer us to a trial oncologist. And when, when that happened, it kind of hit me upside the face. Because first of all, I felt betrayed by the oncologist because I didn't understand

why she had to step away and not be involved in the care team at all. And I also didn't like the idea of trial drugs. You know, the science has to get advanced somehow, but when you're at a point in your journey where you're willing to take a 50-50 chance of not getting the medication at all just for the purposes of advancing the science and helping somebody else,

Jason Allison (13:04)
Yeah.

Rob Paterson (13:04)
Yeah.

Jason Allison (13:07)
Thank

Sam Wegner (13:11)
that says a lot about where you are. And I didn't like what it would say about me if I agreed to let my wife be involved in a trial. we were in that particular stage when some missionary friends who had been part of our small group came back into town. And so our small group leader threw a bit of a party at his house.

inviting other people in the church who wanted to see them. And so my wife decided she wanted to go. We were still, we were outside of COVID restrictions at that point, but it was still something that we watched very carefully, you know, when we take her out. But she really wanted to go to this because the son of the missionary family has special needs and was a part of her special needs ministry.

Jason Allison (13:49)
Mm-hmm.

Hmm.

Sam Wegner (14:00)
at church. they had a close bond. And when Crystal showed up, most people weren't expecting her to be there. And so that, you know, that kind of energized the room. And so it was, it was turned into quite a party. And at a certain point I stepped away. And one of my friends who's an elder at our church, his name is Greg, he came over to me and he wanted to see how I was doing, how I could pray for us. And

He said, you know, how you doing? And so I just, you know, gave him the standard medical rundown. You know, it was, I had it kind of on, you know, rote repeat, you know, cause get asked that question a lot. And he listened and then he stopped and he kind of looked at me and he says, so

how are you doing with the weight? And I, I'd never been asked that kind of a question before. Never been put to me quite that way before. And so I was stunned and I asked him to repeat it. So says, how are you dealing with the weight? And almost instinctively kind of not being able to help myself. I kind of blurted out, well,

Jason Allison (14:43)
Hmm.

Sam Wegner (15:04)
biggest part of the weight is the weight.

Jason Allison (15:07)
Hmm.

Rob Paterson (15:08)
Hmm.

Sam Wegner (15:09)
And he understood what I was talking about because with the metastatic diagnosis, we were not on a trial drug, but the one that she was put on kind of had an average duration of about nine months. And then after that, we were told there would be trial drugs. So for me, being against trial drugs, that kind of put her on a nine month clock.

This was in June, July, and our daughter was pregnant with her second child who was supposed to be born late January, early February. And so my wife was like, you know, I just want to make it through Christmas, right? I just want to be able to hold the baby. Maybe Easter. Easter was as far as we dared go.

Jason Allison (15:53)
Yeah.

Rob Paterson (15:53)
Mm-hmm.

Sam Wegner (15:59)
And I was okay with that. I mean, obviously we're very confident in our faith and eternal security and our walk with the Lord and all that kind of stuff. But I started having problems.

in weird ways. What affected me initially was worship. I couldn't sing.

Rob Paterson (16:17)
Mm.

Jason Allison (16:18)
Yeah.

Rob Paterson (16:19)
Mm.

Sam Wegner (16:20)
without just breaking down into tears. I don't care what the song was. It could have been the most positive, hopeful, praise song, and I would just break down and bawl like a baby. Fortunately, Faith Bible Church is a larger church and we've got a good sized stage with lighting and sound and all that kind of stuff. So they dimmed the lights during worship, which was great for me because

Jason Allison (16:32)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Sam Wegner (16:47)
That way nobody got to see that I was, had become a blubbering idiot. And my goal every Sunday was just to see if I could make it through a 70 minute service without crying. Didn't really care about the message. Didn't really care about talking to people. Didn't really care about anything else. I just wanted to not have to blow my nose at the end and I failed.

Rob Paterson (16:47)
Hmm.

Jason Allison (16:52)
Yep.

Rob Paterson (16:52)
Hmm.

Jason Allison (17:12)
Yep.

Rob Paterson (17:14)
Mm.

Sam Wegner (17:16)
miserably for months. every Sunday it was like this. It was horrible. then I could not pray out loud without breaking down as well. I mean, even giving thanks for a meal, we, one of the things we enjoy doing is having the young people over for game night. we do it well,

Jason Allison (17:30)
Mm-hmm.

Sam Wegner (17:38)
They don't always come to our house, but we have a game night once a month. so it was game night and I was getting thanks for the food before, you know, we dug in there, 30 people in my house and I can't do it without. You know, breaking down. so that was what I was experiencing, right? When, Greg.

Jason Allison (17:54)
Mm-hmm.

Sam Wegner (18:02)
approached me and but I'd never thought about it until he kind of pulled it out of me like that. so I started doing some more study, some more reading. was trying to figure out, know, okay, Lord, what's going on here? How do I do? Why does this keep happening? I mean, how do we fix this?

Jason Allison (18:12)
Yeah.

Rob Paterson (18:12)
Hmm.

Sam Wegner (18:30)
And what he began to show me was that my struggle wasn't so much with grief, right? There was some anticipatory grief there, no doubt.

Jason Allison (18:43)
Thank

Sam Wegner (18:44)
But my issue was not with the fact that my wife would eventually die from her disease. My problem was with how long it was taking to get there.

Jason Allison (18:55)
Mm.

Rob Paterson (18:56)
Mm.

Sam Wegner (18:56)
And, you know, I'm a big fan of, Charles Dickens and particularly a Christmas Carol. And there's a line in there when the two men come to, you know, ask for help from Scrooge, to support the poor. And, he, Scrooge come back and says, well, if they can't pay their debts, they should go to debtor's prison. And the one man,

replies and says, most would rather die than go to a debtor's prison. And screwed says, well, if they would rather die, they should do so and decrease the surplus population. And I never actually said anything like that out loud about my wife, because that would make me a horrible person. Even thinking it would make me a horrible person. So instead.

Jason Allison (19:38)
Yeah. ⁓

Sam Wegner (19:44)
I just felt it.

And that's when the Lord opened up this journey to me to put together the concepts that eventually became the things that I talk about in the book and showed me that this was

Jason Allison (19:59)
Mm-hmm.

Sam Wegner (20:05)
The struggle that I had with waiting was not only an important part of my own spiritual development, it was core, it was central, and he was doing it on purpose. And not only was he doing it on purpose to me, he actually created the entire world to

revolve around this principle. And I started to see some things in the scriptures I'd never seen before. I've been, I was saved when I was four years old. So I'll let you guess how old I am and do the math. But it's been a long time. yet there were things in here that I had never put together. And when I did, it was revolutionary for me.

Jason Allison (20:54)
Well, I mean, in that vein, because a lot of a theme that is all through the book is is the idea of hope in the time of waiting and and just how that all works together and what that means. Maybe, you know, take a minute, talk about what is what is hope really mean to you? And I know you did some study on the concept of.

Rob Paterson (20:54)
Mm.

Sam Wegner (21:16)
Yeah.

Jason Allison (21:18)
hope in scripture and flesh out what does that actually look like? Cause we have, I know we have listeners who are in the midst of waiting for something, you know, like, and, the struggle is there. And, and, and I know my dad suffered from MS and I literally watched for 20 years, the slow decline, you know, and everything. And so I completely understand, the feelings that you're talking about. Cause

Sam Wegner (21:33)
Mmm.

Jason Allison (21:42)
You know, it was it was not an easy process. And and that yeah. And so I'm just wondering what does hope mean to you as you, you know, you're and you're technically still in this waiting time in a weird way. Like so what does it mean to you?

Sam Wegner (21:58)
Yeah. ⁓

Yeah, she's still sleeping downstairs right now.

So hope, put simply, is confidence in the goodness of God.

I flesh it all out in the first several chapters of the book and there's an awful lot of study there and basically what I'm doing there is rehearsing, repeating sort of the process that I had to go through in order to understand these things. But when, you know,

The short answer to that question is it's confidence in the goodness of God. Where I started was in Romans 8, where Paul talks about the fact that if we don't see things, we hope for them. Hope that is seen is not hope for what a man

Jason Allison (22:54)
Mm-hmm. Great.

Sam Wegner (22:58)
sees why does he yet hope for it but if we hope for what we do not see then with perseverance we eagerly wait for it and so that's when I started to see that hope and waiting go hand in hand you can't have one without the other and logically that makes sense but spiritually and emotionally I'd never connected the two then the whole discussion about hope

Rob Paterson (23:16)
Hmm.

Mm.

Jason Allison (23:20)
Right, right.

Sam Wegner (23:24)
You know, obviously takes me to Hebrews 11 and faith is the substance of things hoped for the evidence of things not seen. you so hope is a component of faith. You take substance and you add it to hope, which means to me you have a hope and you act on it and that becomes faith. Well, what is that? Well, those are the unseen things and.

Jason Allison (23:28)
Mm-hmm.

Sam Wegner (23:50)
you know, for those of us that are spiritually inclined, it's real easy to understand that that unseen thing is God, but there are other things that are related to him and what he, what he does in our lives that are also unseen. And I think those are incorporated into hope as well. But the, but from there, I jumped down five more verses.

to verse six, Hebrews 11 six, where it says that without faith it's impossible to please God. And so here I was left with waiting is connected to hope. Hope is a component of faith. Without faith it's impossible to please God. Therefore it's impossible to please God without waiting.

Jason Allison (24:38)
Mm.

Sam Wegner (24:39)
and that sucked.

Jason Allison (24:41)
Amen.

Rob Paterson (24:41)
Hahaha

Sam Wegner (24:42)
because I hate waiting. absolutely abhor it. Houston traffic is world renowned, but I am the guy who will take a 20 minute detour to get around a 10 minute traffic jam just so that I feel like I'm making progress. Right. Because I don't want to be sitting still and

Jason Allison (24:47)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Sam Wegner (25:04)
I absolutely despise waiting and that's where I realized, you know, if I want to please God and that means I've got to wait, then I've got to change my attitude and my perspective on waiting. And that is what continued to drive more of the study. And yeah.

Rob Paterson (25:18)
Yeah, Sam,

that's really, really interesting to me because what you just said, I've said it, I've heard pretty much everyone I know well say it, I hate waiting, or I think your words, I abhor waiting, that might be even more intense. In the book, you actually talk about waiting as a skill that we can develop and improve. If people are listening and I'm sure, you know,

Sam Wegner (25:30)
Mm-hmm.

Yes.

Rob Paterson (25:40)
Almost all of them would say this too, like, I don't wanna wait, especially if it's important, if it matters, know, what are some things that you learned and discovered that, you know, might be helpful for our listeners if they are like, I need to develop this skill, I need to build this muscle so that I can actually wait and wait well.

Sam Wegner (25:57)
So ironically, one of those things ties into what you guys were talking about at the beginning of this show. That whole idea that you're talking about about getting out on the golf course and resting and enjoying company with people that you love and all those kinds of things. It's an important part of this entire process. It really stems from the whole concept

of the fact that the opposite of faith is not fear. We usually think of if I'm afraid then I'm not having faith, I don't trust, whatever. I don't believe as strongly or whatever. But actually, the opposite of faith is not fear, it's control.

Jason Allison (26:43)
Mm-hmm.

Sam Wegner (26:44)
And waiting is all about control. The reason that I'm frustrated when I use an example of, of, a lady in a checkout line at a grocery store who's got 23 product specific coupons. And so, you know, the, the cashier has to go through and make sure that, you know, the

15 cents got taken off of that tube of toothpaste and it was the right size and all that kind of stuff. You you've been there, you know what it's like, right? And you get somebody who's coupon clipping in front of you and they want to make sure they get every last dime, right? So it's not just the time that the cashier takes. It's the fact that somebody's double checking the work and the grand total of what they may save in that particular thing may have

Jason Allison (27:19)
yeah.

Rob Paterson (27:19)
Mm-hmm.

Sam Wegner (27:39)
may amount to $5.35, right? But it's a big deal and it slows down the process. And what's frustrating about that is there's not a single thing you can do to make it go faster.

Rob Paterson (27:55)
Mmm.

Sam Wegner (27:55)
You can't control it. And when I recognized that my struggle with waiting was really about control,

That means that in order to get better at waiting, I had to get better at relinquishing control.

And the way God tells us to do that is to rest.

Sabbath rest is not about not playing sports on Sunday. Sabbath rest, those of you who are pastors out there may have to plug your ears while I say this, Sabbath rest isn't about people going to church on Sunday. Sabbath rest is about relinquishing control. The reason God tells us to not work

Jason Allison (28:31)
Mm-mm.

Sam Wegner (28:40)
And why he told the Israelites to not work on the Sabbath was because they, that is an indication that it's our way of saying, you know what Lord, I'm going to set my work aside and trust you that it's all going to be okay. When I pick it up again tomorrow, just think about the manna that fell in the wilderness, right? The reason they weren't supposed.

Jason Allison (29:04)
Yeah.

Sam Wegner (29:07)
to gather more than what they needed for every day was a symbol of trust, right? That God was going to provide the manna again tomorrow. If they tried to hoard it, it rotted. On the Sabbath, they were allowed to collect extra for the Sabbath day, and after that, it would rot.

You know, so from the very beginning, this whole idea of resting means putting your burden down. So, the, one of the things I talk about in the book is that you, you have to start doing that. And just like with any exercise, you start small, you know, if you've never picked up a golf club before.

Jason Allison (29:49)
All right.

Sam Wegner (29:54)
Maybe you don't go to the driving range. Maybe you go putt-putt golfing, right? And, work on your stance and work on your stroke. and you know, that's not going to make you into a Phil Mickelson or a Tiger Woods, but you've got to start and you've got to start small. so even sometimes, but just putting, putting the burden down for even just five minutes.

Jason Allison (29:58)
You

Sam Wegner (30:22)
is part of beginning this discipline of rest and understanding that it's about your attitude towards control over the situations in your life.

Jason Allison (30:28)
Yeah.

Rob Paterson (30:34)
Mm.

Jason Allison (30:36)
That's tough. mean, just as first of all, if if if you're a leader, if you're a pastor and a leader, control is something that you're good at or you wouldn't be in the position you're in. Right. And and so and there's something about a visionary leader. Right. That that they see an outcome that it you know, as as I think Andy Stanley put it in his book about Nehemiah. Right. This isn't something that just, you know,

could be this is something that has to be right. This this vision this has to happen and to to set aside control while waiting for that to happen. Can cause just a ton of internal angst in most leaders and I just from reading and then even in our conversations I can tell that internal angst was present in you.

⁓ As well. What were some of the things that you did to I don't know if you resolve the angst but you at least Lean into it to understand it to let go of some things

Sam Wegner (31:24)
It was.

I have for the most part resolved it. I'll tell you that a couple of weeks ago, I'm not immune to it, right?

I'm not necessarily trying to tug on anybody's heartstrings here, but I do want to kind of give everybody an understanding of where I am just so that I can be transparent about this whole thing. So at the end of last month, we lost our health coverage. I lost my job 18 months ago. We've been benefiting from COBRA coverage and that ended.

last month. And so I don't have work, don't have an income. We don't have health coverage. We're living off savings that is dwindling. And obviously, if I have to start paying for more out of pocket medical expenses, it's going to go even faster. And I woke up one morning a couple of weeks ago just terrified.

at what all that meant. And I started spiraling out of control and I got all emotionally worked up over it. And I just, it just got to be too much. as I contemplated losing the house, losing the car, not being able to care for my wife, being homeless. mean, I went all sorts of desperate places and it got so bad that I had to get out of bed and go jump in the shower.

just so the water would drown out my sobbing. So I didn't wake up my wife. I was a basket case. And I said, no. What was more, I was supposed to talk to a podcaster in a couple of hours and I had to be on my game. Because they're brutal and they'll pull the truth out of you. They'll see right through you. So I said, no.

Rob Paterson (33:08)
can't trust those guys.

Jason Allison (33:09)
That's right.

Sam Wegner (33:18)
this is not right. And, and so I went back to the basics that I started in the book. I talk about the waiting wheel and there's four concepts that kind of revolve in a circle. I went right back to the very first one. God is good. He's not out to get me. He doesn't lie. He's promised to provide. He always has. He always will.

he's in control of this, I'm not. And I don't have to hang on until things get really desperate. They're already desperate. They're way beyond desperate.

Jason Allison (33:51)
Mm-hmm.

Sam Wegner (33:52)
And recognizing that I could not control those circumstances allowed me to put it down and instantly peace returned my mind, my heart, my emotions, they settled.

And I recognized that I was, even though I was no richer, no more employed and no more insured than I was when I got in the shower, I was at, I had peace and I had confidence in a good God who's going to take care of us.

And, and so it, it does, that's how I resolved the angst. That's, that's how I addressed those situations. When, when we got the initial diagnosis and we're talking about it with our four kids, that's where we started. I don't know what this means. I don't know where this is going. I don't know what it's, what's going to happen, but I do know one thing.

Jason Allison (34:32)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Sam Wegner (34:48)
What it doesn't mean is that God is no longer good. God is good because that's all he can be. And he does good because that's all he can do. Because if he can't, if he's not good and he doesn't do good, then he's not God. That's what Psalm one 1968 basically says. says, you are good and do good. And, um, and then a few verses later,

Psalm 119, 71, it says, affliction, it is good that I was afflicted that I might learn your statutes. so when I look at my affliction,

Jason Allison (35:24)
Mm-mm.

Sam Wegner (35:32)
as something that is objectively good, is brought into my life by a God who is absolutely, infinitely, and perfectly good.

it's easier for me to stop fighting him over it.

Rob Paterson (35:46)
Yeah. Sam, I, in my mind, I got a question that's maybe a little bit out there. But, you know, I remember as a kid, I always knew my mom, you know, did not want any life saving measures. She's like, I don't want to be stuck with tubes in me and whatever, like, let me go. And, and yet there was a season where she, you know, was basically hanging on.

Jason Allison (35:46)
good.

Rob Paterson (36:05)
that I chose some life-saving measures because there was lots of hope and she pulled through and lived another decade before she passed. So, you I look back on that and after, you know, she was sort of recovered, she's like, hey, thanks for making that decision. You know, my wife and I, my wife has said to me, she's like, listen, if I'm ever like in a bed, you know, with conditions and she's like, these are her exact words. And I think, you know, sort of,

Truth mixed with some morbid humor might be typical for your average person, but my wife is literally like, you are gonna come into the room, take a pillow, and snuff me out. That's what my wife says. Now, she said all of those things to me when we're not facing that stuff, when we're both healthy. And I'm just wondering, if she had a terminal illness,

Sam Wegner (36:52)
Mm-hmm.

Rob Paterson (36:59)
I don't know that she would say those words to me and knowing that she said them to me 50 times over our 30 years together, you know, like if she was facing something serious, I probably wouldn't bring them up because it would seem like scarier and sensitive. I'm just curious, you know, you've spent years facing just this horrible disease of cancer. you know, I'm just curious how those conversations and all this waiting and all this not

hopelessness from the sense of eternity, there's, there's, you know, the best hope there, but just hopelessness in terms of like, this disease is awful and it doesn't seem to be going away. And so we're like, what do we do about that? Like, how do those conversations just about wishes and life and navigating this, like, you know, when it's just the two of you talking about those things, how did those things go?

Jason Allison (37:30)
you

Sam Wegner (37:50)
Actually, Rob, they've always been very natural.

and

We happen to be on the same page on those things from the very beginning. I think part of that is the fact that we'd been married for 27 years when we got that initial diagnosis and we were very much on the same page about life and ministry and

just the way we went about making decisions in our everyday decisions in our lives. I think if you're going to have those type of conversations with your spouse, if you don't have that solid foundation underneath of it, then they're going to be a whole lot more difficult without question. I don't want to make it sound like it's so easy. Just do it. It's not.

It's not, those are, those are challenging things and you, you have to have already built some transparency into your communication with one another and that trust in order to be able to have those type of discussions. part of it also though is understanding that,

You're an alien.

That's what Peter calls us in 1 Peter, right? We're not... This world is not our home. Our citizenship is in heaven. And really buying into that concept and understanding what that means puts a whole different spin on these type of conversations. It's very similar to...

I think it's very similar to when you're.

trying to talk to one of your children about maybe a medical procedure that they've got to go through. it hurts. it's going to be a while before you get better. But on the other hand, on, on the end of it, right after you've gone through that, then things will be a whole lot better. I mean, it's

Jason Allison (39:43)
Right.

Sam Wegner (39:44)
It's basically the same conversation

that the author of Hebrews has with us when he gets to chapter 12 and he says, talking about Jesus for the joy that was set before him endured the cross. If you think you have the slightest understanding of what those three words mean, endure the cross.

Rob Paterson (40:03)
Yeah.

Jason Allison (40:03)
Hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Sam Wegner (40:09)
You're crazy because you don't. Right. The worst possible thing that you can imagine. The worst possible thing that's happening to you right now isn't anything. And yet he willingly split the Godhead.

Jason Allison (40:10)
Right. ⁓

Rob Paterson (40:20)
Yeah.

Sam Wegner (40:24)
Right? The father turned his back on the son for our sins and he did it willingly. Why? Because of the joy that was on the other side. And when you have really bought into that hope, when you become fully convinced of that kind of joy on the other side, it changes your life. And one of the things that I had to learn is that

I had talked about hope. had preached hope. I had encouraged people about the joy that awaits us in heaven. I'd preached funerals, all that kind of stuff. And yet when I was faced with it myself, I had to recognize that I wasn't 100 % confident.

in that hope, I did still have a piece of me that kind of thought that God would play games with me, that he did delight in inflicting pain just because that's how he got his jollies, right? That he says he'd show up for me, but then when it really counts, not always.

Rob Paterson (41:30)
Mm.

Jason Allison (41:32)
Hmm.

Right.

Sam Wegner (41:39)
And when, as I went through the study and as we worked through the situations in our lives, I had to realize, no, I got to go all in on this thing. It is, it is either all or nothing and it's gotta be all because if it's not all, then it doesn't work. And so he is good. And I, I know there's a.

Jason Allison (41:56)
you

Yeah.

Sam Wegner (42:06)
There's that cliche response, know, God is good all the time, all the time, God is good. And one of the problems with cliches is that we say them and we don't really believe them.

Rob Paterson (42:19)
Hmm.

Sam Wegner (42:19)
But when, but just being able to have that confidence in the final outcome, it makes those.

It makes those end of life conversations a little easier to have. say a little easier because they're still difficult. There's still the emotions tied into it. mean, I, I don't want people to think that I'm just some sort of insensitive, you know, jerk over here. Doesn't really care if his wife lives or dies. I very much didn't want to be like that. That was part of what my problem was. Right.

Jason Allison (42:37)
Yeah.

Hmm

Sam Wegner (42:54)
But when your, when your hope and your faith is real, it changes the color of those type of conversations and, the, the spirit will step in and he will shepherd you through that just like he does anything else.

Jason Allison (43:04)
Yeah.

Yeah. Well, Sam, I would love to continue our conversation for another hour, but we are right. Yeah, we may have to do it again, especially as you develop more of your thoughts. And I mean, the book, it is called The Weight of the Weight, and that's W E I G H T of the W A I T. And it is it's phenomenal. I would recommend it to one. I would recommend it to all our listeners for two reasons. One, because they're going to

Sam Wegner (43:20)
we can do this again.

Rob Paterson (43:21)
Yeah.

Jason Allison (43:39)
enter into a time of waiting if they haven't already, but at some point in their life for various reasons. And this will be good because it helps them. But second of all, because it's good for them to understand this so that when they are shepherding and pastoring the people in their church, they can help them through some of these times because of the perspective that it helps you develop. so, Sam, I just want to first of all say congratulations on the book because you really did a good job of capturing all that without it being that

Sam Wegner (44:06)
Thank you.

Jason Allison (44:07)
that Pollyanna, it'll work out. It's fine. It's not fine, but it's also not terrible. And there's like a way to figure and to live in that tension. ⁓ And so I really do appreciate that about, you know, about the book and about your thought process and in all of this. And so for all of our listeners, I encourage you grab, a copy of it though. I'll have a link in the show notes. And it's worth, it's worth the time.

Sam Wegner (44:14)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Jason Allison (44:31)
to wait for it to get there so that you can read it. Sorry, I had to do that once. ⁓

Sam Wegner (44:35)
Well, I mean, you don't necessarily

have to wait. mean, ⁓ it, yeah. So yeah. So it's available in print and ebook and an audio book. The audio narration is me, my natural voice talking. So, no AI it's all very genuine. And that was an important part of that process for me. also, you can.

Jason Allison (44:38)
True. You can download the.

Rob Paterson (44:41)
video book or the PDF or whatever.

Jason Allison (44:43)
Yes.

Sam Wegner (45:01)
There's also a contact form on my website, samwagner.com, where you can reach out and I would love to hear your story. I would also be happy to offer any kind of help or insight that I can on dealing with a particular situation or you've got a question or even if you're

Jason Allison (45:14)
Yeah.

Sam Wegner (45:30)
not really sure about one of the concepts that we talk about. I'm happy to engage with you any way that I can that way. I've had pastor friends give the book to not only people who dealing with cancer or long-term illnesses or joblessness. Obviously, those are immediate themes there, but people who are dealing with

miscarriage, infertility, caring for aging parents, just whatever the season is. The trigger for waiting are many and varied, but our response to it is similar in each case.

Jason Allison (45:54)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, and all of those things, they reveal, you know, areas where maybe I am trying to control. And then that helps me see it and then work on it. And so I know Rob and I both in our ministry in different ways have experienced that and can can definitely say we agree. That's one of the hardest things, but also it's one of the greatest things. And so

Sam, man, we appreciate you. We appreciate your work here. You and your wife, Crystal, remain in our prayers, even from a long ways away. And hopefully we can do a follow-up interview soon and hear more of what you've learned as you've gone through this. And maybe even someday, if your wife is ever willing, she would want to share some thoughts. We always like hearing that. she's probably, if she's like my wife, she doesn't want to be anywhere near a microphone or a camera.

Sam Wegner (46:39)
Thank you.

I'd love that.

Jason Allison (46:58)
That's it.

Sam Wegner (46:58)
Yeah, mean,

chemo brain is a real thing and she's very ⁓ sensitive to that. ⁓ I still think she has an awful lot to share and she definitely does an awful lot of that in one-on-one type situations. So ⁓ I'll keep working on her or maybe we'll get it done.

Jason Allison (47:01)
Yeah. Yep. Yeah.

Rob Paterson (47:01)
Hmm. Yeah.

Jason Allison (47:07)
Yeah, sensitive to that. agree that I get that. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

All right. Well, to our listeners again in the show notes, you'll you'll see all the ways you can reach out the ways you can get the book, the weight of the weight and Sam, thanks for your time to our listeners. Have a great week. Yeah, you have an amazing week and we'll talk to you soon.

Sam Wegner (47:33)
Thank you guys. You too.