Peddling Hope

In this episode of the Church Talk Podcast, Jason Allison and Rob Paterson engage in a heartfelt conversation about the challenges and joys of ministry, especially during busy seasons like the holidays. They discuss the importance of finding hope amidst exhaustion, the role of pastors in offering support, and the lessons learned from Jesus' interactions with others. The conversation emphasizes the need for compassion, faith, and the power of community in navigating life's complexities.

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Transcript

Jason Allison (00:01)
Hey everybody. Welcome back to the church talk podcast with Robin Jason. man, I'm excited. Rob, I gotta admit, I'm just always excited to get to have a conversation with you. Like I actually enjoy just hanging out and talking with you. and I guess it's kind of nice if other people actually like watching us interact. That's kind of weird now that I say that, but you know, still, I think we, I think we are kind of entertaining to people.

But every so often we say stuff or we have a guest on who's really smart and and it's good for everybody, right?

Rob Paterson (00:32)
Yeah, yeah. You know, as you said that I was embracing a little bit because you're like, I like having a conversation with you. I didn't know what like the next sentence was going to be like, because you know, people like to have like roast marshmallows over a dumpster fire. And that's what we create. Like, you never know what's gonna like go sideways or I you know, I didn't know what the next thing was. So like, just sort of the, the joy, the joy of, of, you know,

Jason Allison (00:40)
It's OK.

It's OK. I didn't either.

Rob Paterson (00:59)
our friendship, the joy of time together, the joy of shared life, the joy of just taking some concepts, some thoughts, some life experiences from over, you know, combined 60 plus years of ministry stuff. You know, if God can use that to help, to engage with, to encourage, to equip others, man, what a fun thing to get to do with a buddy.

Jason Allison (01:21)
I always say if God can speak through an ass, he can speak through you and me.

Rob Paterson (01:26)
Amen. Amen.

You know, it's funny because and this is one of those things too, like we would even say like we both just sort of acknowledged instead of ripping on each other, you know, like that we enjoy doing this. But you know, like there's some weeks that are busy weeks, right? And it's like, when are we gonna, when are we gonna find an extra hour? Or, you know, there's some weeks where we have, you know, we're gonna record, maybe we have a couple guests that that was the week they could so

It could be like a big block or it could be a number of days we have to find sort of these windows. And you know, the older I get, the more I sort of, I've been thinking about this because it's like, oh, thankfully we got through that thing. Now it's like a little bit more normal, but there's always another thing, right? Like there's always a wedding, a funeral, crisis, someone who needs to talk. You know, I was thinking I spent probably like,

Jason Allison (02:09)
There is.

Rob Paterson (02:22)
around six hours interacting with one individual last week, just one individual, not all the interactions. I'm just like, ugh, like, and it was good. And I hope and pray that it was helpful in a blessing, but you know, like there's always things and that's, that's not like in, in certain seasons, that's just like life in ministry. And really, if we're being honest, like, I don't want to like elevate ministry above. I mean, we might get some extra

you know, just unexpected things, maybe more than your common average person, but life is just busy.

Jason Allison (02:56)
Yeah, it is. It is. It's crazy. I mean, like for everyone, whether you're a pastor, a leader, you've just got if you've got kids, life is crazy. I mean, just that's just a starting point in a lot of this. But I don't know. I mean, do you feel like this like right now? Are you in a really busy season? Is this a calm season? I don't know. I mean, we're just started. We're recording this.

Rob Paterson (03:08)
Yeah.

Jason Allison (03:25)
early November. know things ramp up for the next two months because for me, because now that I'm out of a local ministry and doing the regional stuff, it's weird. you know, by mid December, my life slows down instead of speeding up, you know, in a, in a lot of this. I don't know. How are you feeling right now?

Rob Paterson (03:45)
You know, it's funny, the last few years since I agreed to be one of the high school golf coaches, really from the middle of summer until the season ends, which depending on how well our golfers do could go up till like almost right now. We were done a month or so ago, but it's just busy because it's not uncommon. We have a ton of practices before the season starts and just kind of getting out on the course with the kids.

But man, like I felt like we had either practices or matches Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Saturday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Saturday, like literally week after week for a couple months. Again, which I signed up for, I knew all that, I agreed to it and I even enjoy it. Like, I mean, it's fun to watch the kids learn and grow and compete and figure out that, yeah, like, you know, we can't always control what happens on the golf course, but we can control, you know, our attitude, we can control.

Jason Allison (04:25)
Yeah. Yeah.

Rob Paterson (04:38)
our sportsmanship, know, wanting them not only to become better golfers, but better, you know, just human beings in the process. So there's that aspect. So golf season, I actually just a couple Fridays ago had a funeral and, and maybe this is just a me thing. Maybe it isn't, but as soon as I knew in this one, we knew more than a month out because this person passed and the family just was having a hard time trying to find.

sort of the right moment when everybody could sort of be present for this. And then I just had lots of moving parts and pieces in my life. So I knew for over a month, and I think a lot of people would say, man, that was probably nice. As soon as I know I have a funeral, until after the funeral, it's something that just lives in my head because I, and I don't mean this in an overwhelming way, but I just care deeply.

Jason Allison (05:22)
Yes.

Rob Paterson (05:30)
that A, I honor that person's life well, and B, that what we do offers hope and comfort to a mourning family. And so, you know, like, it's not a difficult thing, you know, after I meet with the family and talk to them for an hour or so, it probably only takes me another couple hours to get it all together, you know, that kind of thing. But still, it's just like, it's...

Jason Allison (05:32)
Yep.

Rob Paterson (05:57)
I feel it. feel it in my mind. I feel it on my shoulders. I feel it in my heart. And so, you know, I got through that and I was like, oh, like if things are going to just the pace is going to be a little better. Well, and you know, like last week or week before, whatever, I had a board of overseers meeting in D.C. So there's a couple of days of travel and we had a trunk retreat as a church, which was awesome. But there's the thing. I mean, there's just things right. We're just doing things which kind of leads us to, you know,

Jason Allison (06:20)
Yep. Yeah.

Rob Paterson (06:26)
We are for people who are highly involved in their church for people who are our pastors in a church We are entering a season where regardless of how busy or not busy your life is Your life's gonna get a little bit busier There's just gonna be more things on the calendar because we're entering the Thanksgiving and Christmas holiday season and

And so I often wonder about this, even if you're doing well, and this is not a time management, you know, episode or any of those kinds of things. you know, it's not what we talked about with Mitch, although I think that all these things help and apply. Like if we're living well for, if we're setting good boundaries, you know, for making sure we have good replenishment and all those kinds of things that we've been talking about somewhat here lately, those things are going to make seasons like this more easy. But I'm often wonder to myself.

Jason Allison (06:55)
Right.

Yeah.

Rob Paterson (07:17)
at a time where we are in even greater ways, offering hope, offering joy, trying to inspire Thanksgiving in others. But because of just the natural pace, we're gonna be a little bit emptier. We're gonna be a little bit busier. you know, especially...

Jason Allison (07:27)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Rob Paterson (07:36)
You know, if this is your first year of ministry, you're probably going, what are these guys talking about? I am so energized and this is going to be so much fun. And it is, it totally is. In fact, Jason, I talked to a ton of pastors who are, you know, like in a situation like you, where they're like, I've spent 30 years in the local church and now I'm doing a different type of ministry. And they all say the same thing, especially after two or three years, they're like,

Jason Allison (07:44)
It is.

Rob Paterson (08:00)
I kind of miss like the Christmas and Easter kind of build up and push and all the people that show up, know, like, but you know, when, when you're in it, it's yeah, it's fun for a little while and it's fun in general, but after 30 years of doing that year after year after year, tell me that doesn't take a toll as well that we just need to be mindful of if we want to be able to.

you know, continue to offer those things and in a, I'm full and have some overflow to give to you type of a way. Man, we gotta be mindful of that stuff.

Jason Allison (08:35)
Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, I mean, I'm not going to lie. I am not. I'm not missing the holidays. Daze, right? The days that you get from being in the holiday season. I'm not upset that I've opted out of that a little bit. And yet I do. I've been in it for 30 plus years. So it's not like it's a, you know, a season I don't remember.

And I'm sure by next year, I'll probably think, you know, I really kind of miss this that, or, know, like I get that. but I do think you're, you're exactly right. When you talk about even some of the talk stuff we talked about with Mitch Harrison before about running on full. mean, this is the time of year that the holes in the bottom of your cup get a little bigger, right? Or a couple extra ones are added that aren't normally there. So you're being drained faster than you're being filled.

And so really embracing this idea of, we are here to, to, you put it, pedal hope. Right. I mean, that, that's, I've done some, some of the dream disciple work, with, with churches and a couple of them have used this phrase, you know, that we are peddlers of hope or we're we're hope dealers is a way some people have put it because they live in a neighborhood where that. Right. Exactly. And, and so that's, I think that's important.

Rob Paterson (09:49)
Yeah, not drug dealers, hope dealers. Yeah.

Jason Allison (09:55)
And I think that's what our friend JD Walt from a while ago, in his daily email thing, he talks about gospeling, which means actually taking the gospel and engaging it and, then doing something with it. think living out hope is a gospeling action, right? And then being that presence around the people that may be a part of your church, maybe your neighborhood, maybe just in your community, but man.

It ain't easy because there are times I remember this time of year I had the life sucked out of me and I was dumb enough. I mean, you at least coach golf, which meant it was a fall kind of thing, right? You're done by end of October. I coached high school boys basketball. Guess when the season is at its peak. Yes, and and yes, I guess when it gets really, really intense end of season, really close to Easter.

Rob Paterson (10:42)
fires up just to yeah just in time to drown you at the holiday.

Jason Allison (10:51)
Which another one of those seasons, you know, I'm an idiot. I get it. That's fine. But, so I understand that you're so busy and then all of sudden you're not, but then you're busy again. and somehow finding hope in the midst of that, you know, I think is what is what so hard. I w we were talking a little bit before and I mentioned, I was reading Luke chapter seven and, and Luke chapter seven is just, you know, Luke.

talking about things Jesus did, right? But at the very beginning, this centurion, yeah. no, no, I don't think anything Jesus did.

Rob Paterson (11:20)
not not easy ones. I mean, like, like when you when you were

wait, when you were telling me these, like, here's how I felt as a pastor, like, you know, because I mean, we do this, right? Like, I put myself kind of in Jesus shoes, as you were, you were just sort of bullet pointing this, like you're gonna do here in a second. And it felt like this. you know what I mean? So tell us. Yeah, tell us.

Jason Allison (11:41)
Yeah, well, mean, okay,

so Luke chapter seven it starts out this Jesus is traveling around right and this centurion Approaches him which they're in and of itself. You've got political issues at stake. You've got a foreigner You've got all this other stuff But then you've got the power dynamic of the centurion talking to Jesus and and the centurion asks Jesus to help his servant who is sick and about to die

And any the centurion doesn't even come he sends people Right, and he actually sent the Jewish elders to talk to him. So he sent church people Today, you know like it's the layers of complexity of this just get worse and worse and worse the further you go and and they even say this guy's worthy of you granting him this wish like Jesus is a genie, right so Everything is all twisty

Rob Paterson (12:26)
Yeah.

Jason Allison (12:28)
in this and so Jesus though, then he, you know, replies, yes, I'll do it. And, so they, you know, they, they reach out to him again on his way over and say, the Centurion says, Hey, you know what? You shouldn't even come into my house. I'm not worthy. The whole thing. Jesus says the word, the servant is, is healed. And, and so you've got this other and Jesus says, yes, I'm going to serve this other person, this person that's not part of our tribe.

Right. Even though he's nice to us, he politically, socially, all this stuff goes straight from that to this widow who her only son dies. And that means she's going to be really struggling for the rest of her life. And we don't know how old she was, but man, she, her son dies. She doesn't have a husband. She's, she's screwed in, in that culture. And Jesus deals with that. Right. Now he raises the guy from the dead, which, that's pretty impressive. I've never been able to pull that one off.

Rob Paterson (13:15)
Yeah.

Be so nice if we had that in our toolbox. Amen, pastors.

Jason Allison (13:26)
man, it would be, it'd

be a game changer. that's for sure. So he gets this and then John the Baptist sends some of his disciples cause John's in jail and he John's doubting, right? Is Jesus, are you really the one or should we be looking for what's going on? I don't get it. Why am I in prison? all the, did everything right. All this struggle and Jesus then heal some people says to John's disciples, see what I did. Go tell him that, which didn't really answer the question. I mean, it kind of did, but it kind of didn't. It was not.

A nice clear answer in so many ways. And then he starts telling, starts speaking in these weird riddles about, this generation, we played the flute for you, but you didn't dance. We sang a lament, but you didn't. We like, what? Jesus, are you off your meds? Like, I mean, could we? And so you got all this going on. And then a Pharisee comes and invites him to dinner. This is all one chapter, right? This is like a week, you know, and.

And this Pharisee invites him to dinner and then this woman of ill repute ends up, you know, anointing his feet, cleaning with with her tears. And I mean, it's this beautiful and yet kind of sensual type thing. It's really awkward for everybody sitting there. And so that means one more awkward situation. Jesus is navigating in the midst of this. Right. And he tells this story about, you know,

person being forgiven a debt and then another one who's got an even bigger debt being forgiven and saying who loved the person who forgave the debts more well one with bigger debt and Jesus said to this religious leader this sinner loves God more than you and that's like, you know a day in the life of Jesus and and so I'm looking at this going all these things first of all, yeah, I can't imagine having to deal with all this in one

You know, just really rapid fire succession. I'm tired thinking about it. Yeah, that's just a Tuesday for Jesus. But I'm also looking at it going, man, there's so much in there to learn about how we are, how we are being present in our situation, in our context today. And, know, what what does it look like when someone who isn't from our tribe asks for our help?

Rob Paterson (15:10)
Yeah, that was Tuesday. That was a Tuesday.

Jason Allison (15:32)
Cause I don't know about you, but I've gotten a call from, you know, especially when I local church, somebody calls us from the funeral home and says, Hey, we got this person. They need someone to do a funeral. And I'm like, I don't, I don't know these people. This is going to be a, I don't, what's the point, right? and, and for, for what, you know, they're never coming to your church. I mean, let's be honest that there's a reason they don't have a church cause they don't want one.

Rob Paterson (15:49)
extra work. Yeah.

Jason Allison (16:00)
And it doesn't matter what you do. It's not going to change their mind. And I'm sure there's stories where that's different, but I'm just going by my, you know, my experience on that one. Yes. Yes. Maybe that's why no one ever came because I, know, I mean, I tried to put the fun back in funeral, but it didn't, didn't always work. but you know, you got this other and get the, so, and then all the political stuff that goes with that, right. The Centurion and the.

Rob Paterson (16:08)
Your cynical pessimism?

Jason Allison (16:24)
What does it look like for us to engage with the other with the same compassion that Jesus did? And let's be honest, that's exhausting. And yet we're supposed to be hope in our community and hope means we have to embrace the other and actually love them and treat them like God would treat them. And man, that's tiring and it's hard. I don't know. I, I've just, as you were thinking about the busyness of the season,

Rob Paterson (16:44)
Mm.

Yeah.

Jason Allison (16:52)
And Jesus and what does it look like in the midst of the craziness? To actually be a gospel presence in the midst of that as a pastor doing a lot of stuff and all of it's probably important. I don't mean like you need to trim what you're doing. I mean, it's just a busy season. How do I purvey pedal hope? In the midst of that. What do I got no answers, Rob? Tell us.

Rob Paterson (17:15)
Yeah.

Well, and again, I don't know that there are answers per se, but, you know, as you're talking, man, I think there's just this general human tendency, right? When we read like the scripture you just cited from Luke seven, where, you know, if we were to put ourself in Jesus shoes, we would, we would, as you did so well, it's like, man, this just is exhausting, right? But

What we tend to think is, but it was Jesus, right? Like, so Jesus, like, he kind of had that magic, you know, God dust, you know, on his insides and was just, you know, I mean, he could raise people from the dead for crying out loud. We can't do that. like, you know, I mean, obviously he just had endless, but we know this, right? Jesus wasn't just fully God. He was also fully human.

Jason Allison (18:05)
Right?

Rob Paterson (18:06)
And there's plenty of times in the scriptures where Jesus is getting away. Why? Because he is depleted, he is tired, and he does need to spend more time with the Father. He does need to rest, you know, all those things. So, you know, what a good reminder for us to sort of even in the midst of the busyness and because of the busyness, find ways and practices and moments where we can kind of...

Jason Allison (18:30)
Mm.

Rob Paterson (18:31)
Even in a crazy season, like we're getting ready to walk into, like just find a minute. It's like, I remember hearing in college a great story about Susanna Wesley, the mother of John Wesley. And you know, had a gazillion kids. And so for her, her quiet time, you know, when her kids were little turned into like in the middle of the room of the house, she would literally take her like apron and like pull it over her head.

Jason Allison (18:40)
Yeah.

Rob Paterson (18:55)
And like it's still all the noise, the kids, the things, but she just have like a few moments like they're hiding in plain sight under, you know, the apron that she wore. And that was what her devotional life looked like for a while because that was the season. so we're not saying like create some robust structure for like the Christmas weeks or whatever. But Jason, this reminds me in our first church plant in Indianapolis. Um, and it was, it was, it was, I don't know, it was like November, early December.

I was doing some messages about what does faith look like. And the big idea was basically like, faith is not a, you have faith and then God does the thing you want him to do. Like you were saying, like God's, Jesus is a genie. If we just say the right prayer or do the exact right things, then he's going to show up and give us exactly what we want. Bank accounts full, people healthy, you know, everything sort of right is rain, nice little bow, probably going to get Alexis from the

December to remember Lexus sales event or whatever. You know, it's like, thank you Jesus. That's not what it looks like. Like there's a lot of people who want to peddle that kind of hope. If you just trust Jesus, everything will always work out and be fine. And ultimately we know that's true, right? Like we've all read the, we know the end of the book, you know, it is finished. We have won. actually, of my youth guy who spoke a couple of weeks ago at New Hope, he said a great thing. He said, we don't fight.

for victory, we fight from victory, right? Like as people of faith, our position is secure. But in the meantime, bad things still happen. People still die. We face horrible things sometimes and horrible losses in life. So I'm preaching this sermon series. When I'm preparing it, it's in a totally disconnected way. This was a very small church.

Jason Allison (20:23)
Mm, that's good. Yeah.

Rob Paterson (20:45)
One of the couples in the church, he was let go, you know, like just weeks before Christmas from his job. And, and so here I am standing in front of 30 ish or less people on a Sunday in this little, break room area, cafeteria area in the Indiana Wesleyan university extension campus building, by keystone of the crossing on the north side of Indianapolis preaching my, you know, but

But like, it's like, Hey, like faith is trusting God, even when things don't work out. you know, like one of our recent guests said, you know, trusting that God is good, even when the circumstances are trying to tell us something different, like going all in on believing that. And, and all of a sudden this guy calls me up and he's like, man, I just got fired. Like, you know, whatever three weeks before Christmas. So now there's Christmas, all the just expense and stuff of that. And then you just lay this over.

Jason Allison (21:26)
Mm-hmm.

Rob Paterson (21:40)
And it's like, I want to be honest, like for me, like I had this, this strong internal, thought of maybe I like tone this message down. Maybe, maybe I, maybe I start talking about something different because this hits way too close to home. Faith is trusting God, even when things don't work out. And now all of a sudden you're walking into Christmas with no, paycheck coming in. Cause you just got let go. And honestly,

Jason Allison (21:52)
Mmm.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Rob Paterson (22:06)
in that moment, because I really felt like God had led us to talk about these things. I decided to keep talking about it. And I'm quite honestly, I felt that internal tension the entire time. I'm like, it's just like, I wanted to say, I'm not really talking to you guys. You know I mean? Like, like what does happen? But I tell you what they, really, really, really appreciated.

Jason Allison (22:18)
Yeah.

Rob Paterson (22:33)
and were deeply nourished by that truth and by the presence of Jesus in their lives and in their family during this really difficult time. And again, I think sometimes because, not because, you know, I hate when people say this and I'm sure there are some who do it. I just don't know very many of them, you know, like the accusation of churches watering down the truth or not.

caring about the Bible or whatever. It's like, you know, the people I know and the people I see, like, you know, if something we're going to look or sound like that, it's, it's, it's out of compassion. It's out of care. It's out, it's out of not wanting to use the word of God as a hammer to like bash people. So how do we figure out ways to communicate these truths in way, you know, in ways that are kind and

Jason Allison (23:06)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Rob Paterson (23:26)
Palatable and again not diminishing them and and and so like I said like I felt all of those tensions But to have these people like come up shake my hand. Give me a hug. Thank me Thank me for reminding them that God is gonna be good and faithful whether things work out or they lose the house, you know

Jason Allison (23:39)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Right.

Well, I think you're onto something too there is as pastors, part of our role is to remind people that God is good and bring them back to that reality and cast that vision of God being good because that is what hope is all about is actually trusting that God is good. And I think part of our role is to continue to paint that picture of God's goodness.

even when it doesn't feel like it, and I don't mean fake it, like, I mean to say beyond the here and now we know because of what scripture says, right? Because that God is good. Then we are going to trust that somehow some way what is happening in our life right now is ultimately good for the church, for God's will, for our life, for our family. but let's be honest, I don't.

Want to trust that I would rather everything just work out. I mean, that that would, that's what I would rather have. But I can also tell you every, every major growth spurt in my life happened in the midst of bad things or hard things or, you know, difficult times. I didn't know it in the moment. Right. And, and, and so, but I've also reached a point where I just last week I was preaching again at this church, you know, in a whole nother state and

Rob Paterson (24:45)
Mm.

Jason Allison (25:11)
And they've been through some difficult things. And I preached about what do we do when when life doesn't make sense and it feels like God doesn't make sense. And I said, listen, I know right now it may not, but I want you to hear this as a person who's been where you're at, not knowing if God's really good or not. I got through it and let me assure you he is and it doesn't feel like it right now. And it's going to be a struggle. get that.

but you just need a voice in your life that is reminding you been there and I'm still okay and God is still good. Sometimes that's as a pastor, we got to be willing to stand up and say that even though we know the story of the people sitting there of the one who just lost their job, the one who's struggling with this, that or the other.

Rob Paterson (25:56)
Yeah.

Well, now let's like, let's put these two things together. Cause I think this is like, this is huge, right? So here's Jesus to use the line from the bare naked lady song 9.30 on a Tuesday, right? And it's been a long Tuesday and he's just had, you know, thing after thing after thing. And he might even be like, wow, that, that, that went well, but still like all of those things exhausting in and of themselves. And now they're all stacked in one day. And I'm sure he just wants to.

you know, go home, sit in his lazy boy, you know, turn on his favorite show, binge watch a few episodes before he heads off to bed, right? Like this is like what he's desiring, because this is life, right? I need to veg and rest so that I can kind of get back at it again. But the end of all that, in this busy season, all of these things kind of probably a little bit depleted, what does Jesus do? He offers forgiveness and he offers love.

Jason Allison (26:54)
Yeah.

Rob Paterson (26:55)
And then I think to myself, man, this family, you know, choosing to believe God is good and choosing to have faith in God, even when the circumstance of their life is dire, it's like, you know what, like, I want to pay attention to that. That kind of faith interests me. The kind of faith, it really isn't faith at all, by the way, that like

Jason Allison (27:16)
guess.

Yeah.

Rob Paterson (27:22)
you get all the things and it all works out and there's the perfect bow, that doesn't interest me. In fact, that almost makes me wanna puke because I mean, now do I want good things for me and for those that I love and really just for others in general? Sure I do. But like that's not necessarily always the way life works. you know, like these things go together. And so here's what I would say like to all of us, you know, who have some role.

Jason Allison (27:26)
Yeah.

Right.

Yeah.

Rob Paterson (27:48)
whether it's a leadership role or an execution role or a, you know, I'm, I'm helping or serving kids or singing in the band that week, whatever. you know what? And if your life was perfectly manageable right now and you were getting like nine hours of sleep a night and your diet's dialed in, so you're feeling physically perfect and

You know, everything just goes exactly as you planned and you're living your ideal week every single week and your life is good and you get up and offer hope. I don't really know if people are going to quite like care as much, but if you're in a busy season and you're like, honestly, like it's not, nothing's bad, right? Everything's fine, but it's just one of those times a year where the demands are higher.

and I'm busier. And so I'm just naturally going to be a little bit depleted for these weeks, right? In those moments when we can stand before people and even maybe share some of the tension and struggle and you know, like my kids wanted me to do this, but I had this church thing that I had to do because that's part of my, my deal with part of my job, right? And so in the midst of all the tension and all the struggle when we can stand before people,

Jason Allison (28:50)
All right.

Rob Paterson (29:04)
and truly embrace ourselves joy and truly have hope and offer that hope. I think people go, ooh, ooh, like tell me more about that because I feel depleted too. I feel like I have way too many plates spinning. I'd love to offload half of my schedule. you're as busy or busier than me and you seem to have something maybe that I'm not tapping into.

Jason Allison (29:20)
Yeah, and a couple kids.

Yeah.

Rob Paterson (29:29)
So I wonder if these things that we're offering are actually, we don't wanna do, this is not an admonition to get to the precipice and live there for your whole life because then with the things you say will carry more weight. I'm not saying that at all. But what I am saying is these times of the year where life just gets like that, and some of them are scheduled, we know Christmas is like this, others of them just happen organically because.

There's three weddings and then there's two funerals and the big church event thing too, all at the same time. And you're like, how am going to get through this? When those seasons come up, man, I almost think our words and our lives carry more weight and offer more hope because when people see us experiencing those things at times we should not be, they're like, wow, that's pretty cool.

Jason Allison (30:15)
Yeah,

I think that's why, you know, Peter says, be ready to give an answer for the hope that you have. Well, the only time you show hope is when things aren't going the way you wanted them to. And you hope for something more. You you endure that time. You because, know, and that's I mean, that's basically Peter saying, dude, you got to be smoking what you're selling. Right. I mean, if I'm not actually living in that, even when it's hard, even when it doesn't make sense. And I don't mean like you and you said this, but not that fake.

No, everything's great. You know, like trying to pretend like you've got it all together. Everything's because you you don't and you won't and it will show. And then it's almost worse. Acknowledge I'm exhausted. I'm tired. But this is a season. This is happening. There is something more to this than the struggle of right now. And that's the hard part. I was it's funny. We talk too about having people around you that help you.

Rob Paterson (30:54)
Yeah. Yeah.

Jason Allison (31:10)
in those times, you know, either just a pitch in or just to be a sounding board or just a, a, a source of hope for you, right? When you need it. Um, if, you read on in Luke seven and you get into Luke eight, the very first verses of that, says, you know, then afterwards that Jesus start continues to go from village to village and his disciples are with him. But then it names these women who are also traveling with them and who are supporting his ministry. But here's the, the, I,

never really noticed this until really recently. It says the women who were with him and traveling around with him were some of the women who had been healed from evil spirits and sickness. Okay, these were not, there was also a group of women who seemingly were a little more wealthy and could support the ministry, but these were the ones who were crazy.

Right? mean, they were struggling. Their life was not together. They were, and now they're the ones who are making up the community that Jesus traveling around with. And let's be honest, you already have the picture of a few people in your church who you would say are like those women that, you know, you would think they probably are causing problems. All right. They're, not the kind that just make everything go much better when they're present. Generally things get harder when they're present.

And yet they're the ones that Jesus traveled with and did ministry with and continued to, you know, share hope because they were the picture of what hope could look like. Right. They, they were the picture. could point to them and say, remember what they used to be like. Right. Remember when they were controlled by something other than the presence of God and now they are, there is hope. And that's where we've got to be able to figure out how to do that with our people.

Rob Paterson (32:40)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, you know, you and I think you've said it during the recording, but you know, beforehand, one of the things you said was, you know, what does the gospel like what does good news actually look like? You know, and and I have for a long time said, you know what, if what you're saying never ever, ever sounds like good news to anybody, it's not the gospel. Right. And at the end of the day, like

Jason Allison (33:20)
Amen.

Rob Paterson (33:23)
Again, it's almost like our government, every, you know, do we end the government shutdown and reopen? Well, you know, I'll vote for that if you, you know, we add so much pork into every piece of legislation, right? So it's like, well, if you vote for these 18 things we want, then we'll give you the votes you need in order to, cause we'll get what we want. You guys can get what you want and then we can move forward. Right? And it's like, I think we do similar things as.

Jason Allison (33:48)
Mm.

Rob Paterson (33:48)
people of faith, we do some more things in the church, right, where we add things on. If you, you know, really, really, really like trust Jesus and do this and do this and do this and do this and do this, then you know, you're gonna like experience hope, you're gonna experience the gospel. And the gospel, yeah, the gospel isn't faith in Jesus, read the Bible 17 times a month, minimum, pray 142 times, it's Jesus.

Jason Allison (33:55)
Yeah.

Yeah, we hedge our bets.

Rob Paterson (34:17)
It's Jesus, it's Jesus, it's Jesus. Now, those things are good things. Those things cultivate our relationships and a relationship and a depth of relationship with Jesus. So we absolutely want to do those things. But it really is Jesus. And you actually alluded to this and it was perfect because my small group, we've done various things. We've recently decided we're gonna actually, when we get together each week, we get together Sunday night, we're gonna.

watch an episode of The Chosen as we eat food and then we're gonna discuss it. That's kind of our game plan going forward, at least for a season. last night we actually watched the first episode of The Chosen together. And I've only, I've never ever even watched a whole episode. I've only caught bits and pieces. My family's watched it. Part of the reason is, cause anytime I'm walking through the room and it's playing, if I watch for more than a minute, usually I'm just.

in tears and I'm a weepy mess because I'm so moved by just watching Jesus and his interactions and the things he does. So I just watched the first episode and I didn't know, so there's this character at the very beginning that you see, and I'm not giving anything away, because if you've read the Bible, you know some of these things, but there's this little girl and then I'm like, is that, the next scene, I'm like, is that grown woman that little girl, which it was.

Jason Allison (35:09)
You

Rob Paterson (35:36)
and throughout the episode they call her Lily or Lilith. I didn't know this, but that was actually back then a term that was attributed to people who had evil spirits, right? Who were like demon possessed. So that was, I'm like, what? Cause in the end of the episode, which most of the episode was all set up and I'm like, yeah, this is fine, but whatever. You know, I'm like, Jesus needs to get on the scene cause there's no Jesus, right? Like this is not good.

Jason Allison (35:46)
yeah. Yeah.

Rob Paterson (36:02)
And even Nicodemus is invited to try to help this woman. And he's like the teacher of teachers, the Pharisee of Pharisees, right? But he shows up and he's like, you know, he can't do anything. And so now he's questioning everything. Cause like the word, the magic words he knows to speak did nothing, right? And, and it's, it's so in the, the, the kind of last episode, the last scene of the episode, you know, she's, she's finally finds herself.

in this bar and the bartender's given her drink because it's like, hey, at least then she can kind of numb the pain and hopefully put these evil spirits at bay for a little bit. So she's kind of resistant, but then she drinks and she's drinking and she gets another glass of whatever it is she's drinking and she goes to have a drink and there's this hand that, and she says, don't touch me. And then she looks and she sees there's this guy and it's Jesus, right? And he just looks right at her and he goes.

That's not for you. Like you don't need the alcohol. Like this is not for you. And she's like, you know, kind of pushes back, has some words and she's like, don't touch me. And she gets up carrying this and she walks out. And as she's walking away, you know, Jesus like calls her by name, but not Lily or Lilith, what everyone's been calling her. He says, Mary, right. And she just stops. I'm like on the verge of crying right now. And she turns around and she's like,

Jason Allison (37:17)
Yeah.

Wow. Yeah.

Rob Paterson (37:27)
How do you know my name? And she falls to her knees and he walks up and he puts his hands on the side of her face and he speaks words of hope and life to her and lets her know that, and I mean, of course, I'm like sitting there weeping and like the last like two, three minutes of the show like made the entire episode for me.

Jason Allison (37:29)
Ugh.

Ugh.

yeah. Yeah.

Rob Paterson (37:50)
But here's this woman whose life is a complete mess. She's full of demons. She's, you know, using every, like the substance is available to numb all these problems. And, and Jesus shows up and literally she has like in the midst of some of the worst circumstances you could ever want to imagine, she is changed and experiences hope and actually is restored to her real name, right? Like Jesus sees her for who she is and like,

Jason Allison (38:12)
Yeah.

Rob Paterson (38:17)
And I'm like, you know what, if he can do that for her, ⁓ pastor, ministry person, in the middle of a crazy busy season where there's probably gonna be other things that pop up that you have to do and you're like, I can't fit one more thing into my schedule. You know what, look to Jesus and find hope in him and offer Jesus, cause he's the only thing that's gonna give people hope. It's not gonna be your cool Christmas idea. It's not gonna be your awesome cantata or your cool choir.

Jason Allison (38:21)
Yeah.

Rob Paterson (38:44)
or your great Christmas sermon, it's gonna be Jesus.

Jason Allison (38:47)
Well, I'm just going to stop there because that's amazing. It's just Jesus. Pastor, as you move into this busy season, it's just Jesus. And if you need to talk more about that, reach out to us. We'd love to help. We'd love to serve you in any way we can. Because it's not really us, it's Jesus. And we hope you have an amazing week. And we look forward to hearing from you soon. Take care.