Palate Cleansing

Summary

In this episode of the Church Talk podcast, hosts Rob and Jason discuss the importance of collaboration in ministry, the need for palate cleansers in relationships, and the significance of engaging with the community for personal renewal. They emphasize the necessity of creating healthy rhythms in life, including the practice of Sabbath as a time for replenishment. The conversation highlights the value of joyful activities and the encouragement needed for those who may feel troubled in their lives.

Chapters

00:00 Excitement for Upcoming Events
02:54 The Importance of Collaboration in Ministry
05:33 Palate Cleansers in Ministry
08:16 Finding Balance in Stressful Times
11:03 The Value of External Relationships
14:03 Community Interactions and Their Impact
20:11 The Joy of Community Engagement
22:53 Finding Balance Through Leisure Activities
26:13 Establishing Healthy Rhythms in Life
28:16 The Importance of Sabbath and Rest
31:08 The Purpose of Lent and Spiritual Reflection
34:52 Embracing Our Troubles and Worth
39:42 The Value of Every Individual in Community

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Transcript

Jason Allison (00:01)
Hey everybody, welcome back to the Church Talk podcast with Rob and Jason. We decided today that we needed to just like hit record and start going because we were starting to talk about really cool stuff and realized we hadn't hit record yet. So which is kind of typical for us. What are you going to do? Rob, man, how you doing?

Rob Paterson (00:14)
You

Yeah.

I am doing very well.

Jason Allison (00:22)
That's because you're excited because next week we get to spend like four days together.

Rob Paterson (00:27)
We do. And I'm, actually very excited about that. I got a lot of things kind of on the horizon and it's, and it's interesting because really the next, month, month and a half is going to be super busy. Like I have a lot of, a lot of like travel kind of things and just meetings and like important stuff. And it really, at the end of that culminates in Easter, which is again, one of those busy high point moments of the year in

Jason Allison (00:39)
Yeah.

Rob Paterson (00:54)
kind of church life. So but you know, like, yeah, like there's so many things that are a part of even my continued busy season. I've kind of been busy since like just before Christmas. And I'm like, I keep thinking, who next week, it's gonna be ha. And then I get to the next week. And it's like, this is full. This is like it just it's it's been non stop. But man, I'm super energized about what's coming up. So

Jason Allison (01:05)
Yeah.

Yeah,

yeah, yeah. And next week, you and I get to do some training at a church, which, you know, and this is a church neither of us have been to. They kind of reached out to us through some mutual friends. we happened to we were going to be down in that area. So it worked out. We could go down a day early and hang out with the church and do some do some. That's going to be a lot of fun to me. Like that's it's relaxing.

in a weird way. Like I know a lot of people get nervous if they're supposed to speak or do, you know, whatever. But I'm like, actually, man, if I get to go hang out and do it, it's actually fun. And it's so cool to see the light bulbs go off with people, you know, when they start realizing things. And and I don't know, I just love doing that.

Rob Paterson (01:56)
And we have done this training one other time. It was actually on a very similar trip where we had some sort of movement slash regional business that we were doing. And we went in a day early and we met with a staff of a church and we did this training. And it's so good. And I, I still remember you and I debriefing that afternoon after the training and saying, man, like not only was that really good and was really helpful for this team and really landed in ways that.

Jason Allison (02:00)
Yeah. Yeah.

It is.

Rob Paterson (02:25)
gave them some tools to know how to better work with and mobilize, you know, their leaders and people. ⁓ But we also were like, we've got to do this because after we did it the first time, we're like, this part really worked. Let's tweak that. And so the idea that we get to do this again, and man, I'm looking forward, hopefully we can do this another half dozen times throughout the rest of this year for other churches, for leadership groups, for elder boards, for staff, whatever.

Jason Allison (02:32)
Mm-hmm.

Rob Paterson (02:54)
cause yeah, I, I really had fun and you and I now we've done a number of these things together. I mean, we've kind of done similar things together now for 15 years with our, our local lead team. ⁓ but now over the last, you know, number of years, like doing stuff regionally, doing stuff with the church talk podcast, it's just been really fun. Cause you and I, we, you know, we, we play well off each other. I mean, you have tons of experiences and history.

Jason Allison (03:04)
Yeah. Yeah.

Rob Paterson (03:23)
I have tons of experiences in history, so there's always something that really has helped connect and cause, like you said, those light bulbs to go on for people, and that's cool.

Jason Allison (03:30)
Yeah. Yeah.

It is. It's a lot of fun. And I mean, it is fun doing it together, right? You know, I still remember Henry now and wrote a book in the name of Jesus, I think it is. And he talks about going someplace where he's going to travel and do a speaking engagement. And this is when he worked with and I don't know how they pronounce it. It's large, large. Yeah, it's French, Canadian. I figured you'd know.

Rob Paterson (03:51)
La Arch, yeah.

Jason Allison (03:55)
But I took it in high school. And but he's that, you know, that where he was working, he was a chaplain basically at this, you know, house where a bunch of people live that were, you know, very high need, you know, disabled people. And so he took with him one of the guys who's, you know, mentally delayed in a lot of ways, I think. And so he had some disabilities, but he traveled with Henry to the speaking

Rob Paterson (03:55)
Do you French?

Jason Allison (04:21)
engagement and I think it was like DC or something like that. you know, he said, and he just kept saying, we're going to do this together. We're going to do this together. And so Henry said, of course we are, you know, they get there and it comes time for him. And of course he, you know, the host takes them out to dinner, does all this stuff, you know, that you do, but then comes time and there's hundreds of these leaders gathered in this place and they introduce Henry and he stands up and walks over to the podium.

And this guy that he brought with him stands up and walks and stands right behind him the whole time and says, we're doing this together. And he meant I'm going to stand right there with you. And so but there's something about doing things in ministry together that I just think it just helps in so many ways. know, Emily Manders, she works with Converge and is on staff there. And she and I.

have done a couple of things like this. We're both certified in the handcrafted calling, you know, cohort thing that we do to help people discover their calling. And it's so much fun when she and I can lead that together, even if it's online, like we do a Zoom version for a few sessions and then we try to do one in person. just something about two people in ministry that have very different perspectives. I mean, she's, she's a woman and I'm not, I know.

And yeah, but we both have ministry experience leadership stuff. And so it's kind of fun just to see that and to be involved in that. So, I mean, to our local pastors that maybe are listening, find yourself a partner in crime, right? That you can do some of these trends. Don't try to do it all yourself. It's just not, it's not worth it. Find somebody because you develop them in the process, you know, and that's important. But then second of all, man, it just doesn't all rely on you.

Rob Paterson (06:00)
Yep. And you know, I think a lot of people they think to themselves, well, I don't really have somebody in my local church who fits that bill. Maybe you feel like if you're like me and you live in a, you know, smaller rural area, you might not even feel like you have somebody in this season right now in your community who seems to fit that bill. But man, like you and I are great example this, right? Like we live 75 minutes apart, you know, in kind of different parts of the same state.

but man, like, you know, we, we have just like found ways to, and like you said, like when, when you do that, like there's development that occurs. And I think we would both say that we are better because of our time spent with one another. So, you know, like don't let the things that feel like hurdles be hurdles in some respects, having somebody who's outside of your immediate church and region that you can do things like this with, is, just.

Jason Allison (06:39)
yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

Rob Paterson (06:55)
you know, there's, there's some good buffer there that's helpful as well.

Jason Allison (06:59)
Yeah, yeah. So here's what I wanted to talk about today for at least a few minutes. so I'll I'll I'll reveal some trade secrets in the therapy world that my wife will never listen to this podcast. She'll she'll never know that I said it, but she's a you know, she's a psychiatric nurse practitioner. And you know, so she sees patients. She's actually upstairs on, you know, the.

on the computer radar, you know, seeing seeing patients and so forth. But we were talking the other day and she said she made said this phrase that some of her patients are palate cleansers and that some of the therapists talk about having certain patients that are just palate cleansers. And what she meant was, you know, you have a patient who's just a difficult patient. And that doesn't mean they're mean or it just means they

Hey, this engages a lot of my brain activity to try to figure out solutions and all this stuff. But then you have a few patients that, you know, they show up, they're like, man, things are going great. Just need to renew my medicines or whatever. Man, I appreciate it. And they're gone. You know, those are palate cleanser patients. They're they're the ones because I mean, that's what a palate cleanser is, right? It's a food or a drink between courses. And it's supposed to basically prepare you for the next flavor.

You know, it's just it just resets everything. So here's what I was thinking as she was telling me that I was like, you know, there are people in our lives that, especially in church and in churches and in ministry, that there are several that are I would call them palate cleansers. They're just great to be around. You don't have to work really hard, you know, when when when you're around them.

And I'm just wondering, first of all, Rob, is that even an experience you have? Or am I just complete, am I such a jerk that I just rate everybody as spicy or palate cleansing?

Rob Paterson (08:54)
Well, I would say it's absolutely an experience that I have had and do have. Although I sort of fancy myself like a little bit of like, and some of this is like my environment. I'm in a good environment, right? A good church with really good people. And so I would say like my environment does contribute to fewer.

headaches and difficulties than maybe your average place, church, community, whatever. And then I also just feel like one of the unique things, this is like, don't give myself much credit for this, although I have tried to like steward it well and develop it. But I feel like one of the gifts that God has given me is just, you know, the ability to like connect with and deeply care for people. Like I really, really, really do like people. And so I think some of that connection and care

has helped mitigate against that. Where I think sometimes, you know, maybe people are more introverted, they're more disconnected. And so the possibility of somebody's issues, struggles, concerns, whatever, like they don't feel like there's any warmth, connection, relationship there. And that tends to magnify those things and then cause them to become bigger than they even are or need to be. And so, again, I just feel like the unique gift mix God has placed within me has helped mitigate against that.

But even still, even though those things are true, yeah, I have plenty of things that are difficult. And I also have people and experiences and activities, sometimes that are even completely disconnected from people, that are those kind of life-giving, palate-cleansing things that I try to implement as well.

Jason Allison (10:36)
Yeah.

Well, and we were talking a little bit before we hit record and it does harken back to, you know, our good friend Mitch Harrison and the running on full, you know, book that he's done and then, you know, the stuff that he's he's he's worked through and which, by the way, for those of you who, you know, really want an inside scoop and this is to see if anyone actually listens to the podcast. I am in the process of trying to plan a

running on full retreat this fall. Like, and if you are interested in this, please, you have to let us know. Like I want, I'm doing it for Converge, but if there are Church Talk podcast people who are listeners and want to know more about this, I will figure out a way to open it up to you as well, because I think it's that good. It's very early.

We're looking at like October 10th, somewhere in that range. And it'll probably be in Pennsylvania area. There's a really cool resort and kind of Amish country that I'm looking at. But all that to say, I'm sorry, that was just a little plug of, hey, secret insider, because you listen to the podcast, you get just a little secret information. But, you know, he talks about how, you know, whenever there's things that are happening in our life that maybe are draining us faster.

rather than trying to plug holes and spend all this energy on that, sometimes we just need to be pouring more into our lives so that we stay at that 80 % full. And that's what I kind of see, pallet cleansing people as one of those things we pour in, right? We need those people to stay running on full.

Rob Paterson (12:04)
Yeah.

Yeah.

And again, I think we maybe even said this before, maybe back when it was when we were talking to Mitch, but I just think for me, this of the whole book and this whole construct, for me, this is like the one nugget that I have held super close because I think this is where our instincts, kind of our guts, like in those moments that are high stress and high difficulty, they lie to us very prolifically, right? And what Mitch says,

is that like when your stress level's really high, your replenishment needs to match or exceed that so that you can continue to manage the stress in a healthy way. And so I think, I know for me, like when there's a lot on my plate, when there's a lot to do, when there's things that are like spinning, the plates are spinning but I can see them starting to wobble and they're getting ready to crash or there's relationships that are hanging on by a thread, you know?

Like all that stuff creates so much stress and tension that it feels like to do things that are life-giving and replenishing, it almost feels irresponsible, right? Like if I do that, like there's so much important things that require my attention and care. And if I don't do those things and something breaks, then you know, it was because of my irresponsibility. The problem with that line of thinking

Jason Allison (13:20)
Mmm, yeah.

Rob Paterson (13:35)
is then we become the thing that breaks and we cannot, we are no longer able to be of any help to anyone. And so pumping the brakes and saying, yeah, I got 10 things that I got to deal with. And you know, that marriage might like blow up, that person might blow up, you know, this area of our ministry might like have, have some, some really significant things take place and, and that are negative. But if

Jason Allison (13:39)
Yes.

Rob Paterson (14:03)
I don't also take care of myself and my tank. I'm going to be able to help with none of those things. I just like ministry person. I don't care if you're on staff at a church, if you're the pastor of a church, or you're just like a high level volunteer or leader. You've got to pay attention to this stuff and make sure like to do these things, spend time with these palate cleansing people and doing these palate cleansing activities in ways that are giving you back.

Jason Allison (14:08)
Right.

Yeah.

Rob Paterson (14:30)
life so

that you can continue to put things out.

Jason Allison (14:33)
Yeah, so I got a couple of ways I want to go with this. The first thing I want to ask about or talk about is we talk about people inside our church. What does it look like to have some palate cleansers outside of our church? And I'm talking people, right? What are some what do you think about having people that are not connected to your church, but that you, you maybe you have a few of these. I know I always did just people outside the church that I wasn't

I wasn't spending time with them to try to get them to go to my church like that. That wasn't the goal. They honestly may or may not have been a Christian. Like it's not even that I was, but they're just friends. Right. And I can think off top my head, I can think of about three over the last 10 years that, you know, just people in town that I could go hang out with them for a little bit. And then I was.

I almost felt more ready to go back to church people after hanging out with them. Have you had that kind of experience?

Rob Paterson (15:31)
The whole being more ready to go back to church people? No.

Jason Allison (15:34)
No, no, no, no.

Having people outside of your church that then, you know, they act as kind of palate cleansers and reset you for ministry.

Rob Paterson (15:42)
Yeah,

yeah. And I think too, know, like, as people in ministry, we are always encouraging our people, you know, to be mindful of others to, again, whether they're Christians or not, like to be, you know, kind of, for lack of a better term, and I don't love this term, but evangelistic, like, hey, like spend time with people in general, be the hands and feet of Jesus to serve others, help.

Jason Allison (16:01)
Right. Yeah.

Rob Paterson (16:06)
people to know and follow Jesus, right? And I was just saying this to somebody in the last day where I was like, know, when I sold cars for six months between a ministry transition 15 years ago now, 15 years ago right now, I was selling cars. It's the only time in the last 30 years, that six month window that I wasn't in full-time vocational ministry. And I tell this to people all the time because people are like, man, it must be so much fun to like.

you know, be a pastor and work in the church and like, you know, be at the church every day and all those kinds of things. And I always laugh and I say, I did more ministry in my six months selling cars than I've done in 30 years as the pastor of a church. And what I mean by that is there's just so much like church work and administration and preparation and plan. I mean, just all the things, right? And so a lot of times we get stuck.

Jason Allison (16:59)
Yep.

Rob Paterson (17:02)
living life with church people and church programs in the church building space, you know, all the things. And when people were like, Hey, you should like rub shoulders with people out in the world and who serve others and be with people who are far from Jesus. And then people go, sweet, how do you do that? And we're like, I don't. Right. So when we can not only say those things, but when we have

life giving stories of people that we spend time with in our community today. Like actually this morning, I was hanging out with another pastor in a local coffee shop in my community. And we walked in and there was a lady standing I don't know her like and I live in a small town and so like but I didn't know her and she had gone to like the hardware store block down the road and she had bought this this mat to put out in front of her front door.

Jason Allison (17:27)
Yeah.

Rob Paterson (17:52)
and it had Bigfoot on it, a new item at one of our two local hardware stores. And she had it in front of her as she was ordering her coffee and whatever from the coffee shop. And it kept like, she had it kind of pinned in front of her and it kept sliding down onto the floor. And you could tell she wasn't happy to just leave it there. So she's trying to order and then she's trying to bend over and pick this rug up and then, you know, she's ordering still and then it would slide down again. And I could just see this like sort of growing frustration on her face.

Jason Allison (18:19)
I'm hey,

Rob Paterson (18:20)
So I literally, like we're next to mine. I just walk up and I grab the mat and I'm like looking at it and I'm like, this is super cool. And, and, and she like kind of holds her hand out, like, I'm so sorry that you're, you're now dealing with my stuff slash problem. And I'm like, Hey, how about I hold this for you while you finish ordering? I don't mind doing that at all. And she

Jason Allison (18:20)
how about I hold this for you while you can and order it? I don't mind doing that at all.

Rob Paterson (18:39)
just had this huge smile on her face. She was super appreciative, right? Like of

Jason Allison (18:40)
you

Rob Paterson (18:45)
of the there was like a good Samaritan basically who was like helping her for 30 seconds.

And then I noticed she had this really, really nice jacket on that was filled with Canadian goose down. And I'm like, I've seen that jacket before. And I'm pretty sure they're like, 7800 bucks. And I'm like, Hey, I really like your jacket. And and she's and I'm like, like, are those the jackets that are like $700 and her eyes got big. And like as if to say, actually, they're quite a bit more than that. And then she's like,

But it was a gift and she's like trying to Jen I'm like, Hey, listen, like, I like the nicer things in life, too. I'm not gonna buy cheap stuff. And she says, you know, the older I get, the less I like the cold. And the more ⁓ the more I just realized there's certain things you don't cheap out on, like you don't cheap out on your clothes, you don't cheap out on your shoes, like there's certain things that you just get the better version of because it actually contributes. So I literally have this

Jason Allison (19:23)
you the more I realize there's certain things you don't see out on the close, you don't see out on the close. But there's certain things that you can get the better version of because it actually could be.

Rob Paterson (19:37)
three minute interaction with this lady who I don't even know her name, who lives in my community or area. And I mean, first of all, I like that just gave me life. That was like, of all the things I got to get done and all the stressful things I'm dealing with, you know, like just interacting with somebody out in the community. was a great thing.

Jason Allison (19:38)
Thank

That was like of all the things I got to get done and all the stressful things that you know, like just interacting with somebody. was a huge, great thing.

Rob Paterson (19:59)
And ⁓ then that other pastor, like we even reflected back on,

Jason Allison (19:59)
then that other pastor like being there and reflecting back.

Rob Paterson (20:03)
you know, as people who were kind of stuck in the church during doing church things all the time. Just so much fun to be in the community interacting with real people. And I don't know, she might be a Christian, but if she's not and like there's something in her life that causes her to seek out the things of God, maybe just maybe she'll be like, Hey, that guy was super nice. And I think he might be the pastor of that church over there.

Jason Allison (20:11)
Yeah.

Rob Paterson (20:27)
You know, maybe she'll darken our doors one day and we'll have an opportunity to really help her to know and follow Jesus, which again was not at all the motivation for my interaction. I just wanted to like be a positive presence in my community and in the lives of people. But man, like even me telling this story right now, like is bringing like joy to my heart and happiness, you know. ⁓ So it cleansed the pallet for me and it wasn't even intentional.

Jason Allison (20:35)
Mm-mm.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, I, I enjoy. Yeah, I still remember when I was first in ministry, you know, 200 years ago and John Wesley was leading me around. I'm just kidding. But the first pastor that I worked with, like, you know, he was he was the senior pastor and I was I was the children's.

person like they never had one. There was like 12 kids, you know, and and I remember him taking me under his wing and you he'd say, listen, one of the things that will help you is if when you're having those rough days, right? Go to the hospital and visit somebody. Just just do it like, you know, go do a visit. It doesn't require much except you going to do it and it will just reset your day.

And you know, just doing stuff like that. I've learned over the years that there are times that I need to break out of the spiral that I'm in, you know, and sometimes it's a good spiral, but like it's, you know, you're like right now I'm prepping the message. I'm finishing the message for this Sunday at one church, but I've got to have the next one ready for their all their media people. So they have the stuff, you know, and we're going to you and I are going to be traveling next week. So it's not like I'm going to all this stuff, right?

Rob Paterson (21:39)
Mm.

Jason Allison (22:06)
And sometimes you just need to take a step back, do something that has nothing to do with ministry or has nothing to do with what you're working on, and just cleanse your palate, get ready to dive into whatever it is God has next. you know, it's just it makes you ready for the next curveball that might be thrown your way, you know?

Rob Paterson (22:27)
Yeah, yeah, that's so good. So Jason, one of the things I would say just about this, and I'm gonna like name an activity because again, I think that this can just be an activity kind of thing too. But I'm also going to name like some people. And I got a funny little story that's I think, indicative of how beneficial and helpful things like this can be. So you and I, like anyone who's listened to this podcast for any length of time,

Jason Allison (22:37)
yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Rob Paterson (22:53)
knows that you and I love golf, right? Like we, we, we talk about golfing together. We talk about wanting to go golfing. We kind of bemoan windows of time where the weather is cooperating, but we're too busy to get out and play. Sometimes we even complain about it not being conducive and us wanting, and actually you're getting ready to go on a trip here soon and go into like a warm locale to play, which always makes me.

Jason Allison (22:56)
Yes.

Rob Paterson (23:20)
a little bit bitter toward you, you know, that I have not somehow been invited along on this trip yet. But anyway, that all that is neither here nor there. So for me and I mean, there there are people inside the church and outside the church that I golf with because again, it's just one of those palate cleansing things. There is just kind of nothing quite like being out on a golf course, whether it's with one person or a couple of people or a few people or we even did a little six person thing toward the end of the season this year.

where you and I dominated some pretty good golfers, which was super duper fun. And so, you know, I love doing that. It's one of the reasons why, and this is a little bit more work, I wouldn't necessarily say it's cleansing all the time. But I've also for the last, you know, number of years been one of the high school golf coaches. And so again, just being out on the course, helping younger golfers, you know, get better at the game and be competitive.

Jason Allison (23:50)
as we do.

Rob Paterson (24:14)
And even interacting with, again, people outside the church, interacting with parents, just being a part of my community is super life-giving. So inside my church, I mean, there's a bunch of people, but over the last number of years, Taylor, who's our youth guy, Andy, who's one of our elders, and then a guy named Badger, Brent Badger's name, like,

Jason Allison (24:36)
I actually graduated from the University of New York by the time I was a defendant. So when I took July off, I a number for 2020 and I just started to train for the month of July. And it was a little bit of a relationship. I remember before...

Rob Paterson (24:36)
actually Badger, his job used to be structured where he worked Friday, Saturday, Sunday. So when I take July off, he had a membership one year and he and I just played endless amounts of golf one whole July. And we just like built a relationship. And so I remember before a surgery,

my blood pressure was just up and they weren't going to do the surgery. And I still remember like the doctors like, okay, go to your happy place. And then we're going to like retake your your blood pressure. And I remember closing my eyes.

and I pictured standing on the first tee box of a hole with Andy and Badger and Taylor. And it's like, and it was a warm, it wasn't hot. was just a warm day with a slight breeze. And I'm just picturing this in my head and I've done it like dozens and dozens and dozens of times. So it was super easy to visualize and they retook my blood pressure and it was perfect. like, so, so again, you know, like,

Jason Allison (25:30)
Yeah.

Rob Paterson (25:34)
It's just

one of those things where it's like, can seem like goofing around. can seem like a waste of time, but a lot of times when we do those things, it actually contributes significantly to our health.

Jason Allison (25:46)
I agree. I agree so much. think we should go play golf right now. wait, it's too cold and there's still six inches of snow on the ground. Never mind. But I do like there is something about doing those things and making that part of your rhythm. And I think that's kind of another area I wanted to dive into real quick is this idea of having a rhythm that gives you it. And, you know, of course, Mitch has his whole.

You know the plan that you're running on full plan and stuff. We're not going to go into that, but the idea is hey, do you have it in the rhythm of your life to actually have times where you can cleanse the palette? You know you can refresh you can. You can get things back to a baseline and for pastors and every I've taught this in 95 network. You know that organization where I do.

some stuff teaching and stuff with them. We've taught this multiple times. You and I have taught this at lead team at all. You know, this idea of a Sabbath cycle is so important because if you don't ever stop. You can't ever restart, right, because you just keep going and you're just going to wind down. And so I just like the imagery of a palate cleansing day, right? I don't know why that's.

Rob Paterson (26:50)
Mm.

Jason Allison (27:07)
got me all thinking about stuff today, but that just is where my brain was. You know, that's kind of what a Sabbath is all about, right? It's a palate cleansing day. It's a it's a personality cleansing day where you get to go just relax. You know, you're doing stuff. You're not like laying around. You could be. But generally speaking, it's not this idea of stopping from even doing anything. But it's like, hey, I'm going to stop doing ministry.

for a day so that I can be ready to do ministry for the other six days. And to me, if we really start thinking of the rhythms of our life in that way, it may help us actually prioritize those type things.

Rob Paterson (27:47)
Yeah. So I would say as you're talking about that, first of all, and again, you know, Mitch Mitch is not a sponsor of, you know, us or the podcast, but man, like, again, I've just been excited about and benefited from his book. So I would encourage all of our listeners, if you haven't already get a copy of running on full scan the QR code, print out the little sheet and fill in some of those things because he, just has a great, very simple construct where you can think.

Jason Allison (27:56)
Yeah.

Rob Paterson (28:16)
through how to do some things that are gonna cause replenishment so you can actually stop, replenish, and continue and even for a long, long time with greater health in mind. Another one, and we might have shared this before, but I just love this, I use this all the time. Divert daily, like what are some things you can do every day that are a little bit of a diversion from the routine? Withdraw weekly.

Jason Allison (28:29)
Yeah.

Rob Paterson (28:42)
So what is your weekly Sabbath? Like is that like a church a day set apart, whatever, maintain monthly. I know in my church, like if you're on staff, full-time staff with me, there is a mandatory requirement that you have a day alone with God every month. So like you get paid, you can go off and just spend that day with Jesus. And I tell you what, like all of us, we come back from those days and we're just better and we're ready to go again, right? And then abandon annually.

Like, so how do you like find a bigger window of time, at least once a year to just completely, you know, disconnect and one simple practice, like just to illustrate one of those things is, you know, and it's actually one of my staff people who modeled this for me. I'm like, you know, cause we know this in ministry. It's like, you know, yeah, we all want to have robust devotional lives, but you know, like you wake up and there's 18 text messages and somebody's.

Jason Allison (29:36)
Mm.

Rob Paterson (29:37)
gone to the hospital and they're touch and go and it's like, you're off to your day. and by the way, you got to teach that thing this evening and in two days later, you got to preach, you know, and there's just things and you're like, if you're being honest, there are days and weeks and maybe even seasons where you're just like, I'm being honest. Like my intentions have remained awesome, but my execution on my time with

Jesus has just been awful. And so like one of my staff guys, like when he comes in in the morning, he closes his office door.

And he does his devotions before he looks at any email before he responds to any calls before he does anything else. And I'm like, I love that. You know, I just love that. And so I have adopted that. Like when I get to the office, I opened my computer, I opened my Bible study software, right in the like, top thing is a devotional. I don't want to make it tricky. I don't want to like find something to buy. I don't want to have to figure out what's next.

I just do that every day as a starting point. And it just, it's helpful. It's a little, you know, daily thing where I can divert and make sure I'm spending that time with Jesus.

Jason Allison (30:46)
Yeah, and in that vein, I feel like we're just doing a bunch of commercials, but I'm just realizing this, you know, this will drop two days before Lent starts. Right. And so, you know, Lent is a season of withdrawing and it's it's in order to be ready to celebrate the resurrection. You know, it's not just a I'm going to try to beat myself into being a better person.

Rob Paterson (31:03)
Yeah.

Jason Allison (31:08)
It's actually saying, no, no, no, I'm going to withhold something from myself in order to better enjoy it when I celebrate what's happening.

Rob Paterson (31:18)
It's a rhythm

of fasting and feasting.

Jason Allison (31:21)
Yes, exactly. And so for those of you that don't know JD Walt, who's been on the on the show, he has a book out just it. And you can get it now and probably get it in before Lent starts. But it's daily readings and it's just called Jesus Asks. And it's this kind of questions from Jesus for 40 days, you know, and it's it's really good. He and I are talking and I'm hoping to get him get him on in the next few weeks.

to talk about the book, but if you want to get it before Lent starts, jump on there and grab that. Trust me, it will be worth your time. What do you think? some here. OK, part of what runs I get tripped up on at times is I find myself doing the palate cleansing activity, but this is just the workaholic in me. I start thinking, well, I'm doing it so that I will work better instead of

I'm doing it simply because God wants me to be refueled and aware. I get stuck, honestly, because I'm always thinking, how is this going to be productive later, even if it's taking a nap so that I'm awake later? I always have that way to brag. I do, I do.

Rob Paterson (32:29)
Yeah. That tension. Dude,

like I am like shocked you didn't like grow up Catholic with all the guilt you seem to still walk around with. It's crazy.

Jason Allison (32:38)
⁓

it wasn't Catholic, but it was the same thing.

Rob Paterson (32:41)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's so good. You know, this this makes me think because we were just talking about rhythms and Sabbath and those kinds of things, right? This makes me think of because I mean, a lot of people if you're kind of our age ish and you grew up in the church and you grew up in maybe a conservative church with like lot of rules and those kinds of things, you probably remember, you know, as a kid, coming home from church on Sunday.

Jason Allison (32:41)
Fundamentalist is fundamentalist, right?

Rob Paterson (33:07)
And like you were like after lunch, you were forced to go like rest, relax, lay down, even though probably you were super hyper and want to just go out and play with your siblings or your friends or whatever. Um, and, you know, you couldn't do that because it was the Sabbath and it was a day of rest. And so you had to draw the shit. mean, just all those kinds of things. Thank God I did not ever experience that, but I've heard dozens of people talk about that being their experience.

And honestly, it was not life giving. It was not restful. If anything, it accomplished the opposite in people. And as an adult, I remember hearing this definition of Sabbath one time from a guy who had served in ministry, who was a missionary for decades. And when I really got to know him, he was a pastor to missionaries for a whole missions organization. And his definition of Sabbath was this, and I just loved it. Any glad and good act.

under heaven that gives you the greatest joy and God the greatest glory. And so like just this idea of like do what really does fill you up. Do what really does make your heart sing. Don't do something because it's like the rule you're trying to follow. Do the kind of thing that when you do it, you can be fully present in it.

because you just love it that much and just wanna savor every second of that thing. So I think for me at least, Jason, that's my answer to your question because yeah, if I'm doing something just because I sort of kinda know it's healthy and helpful and it'll be good and it'll help me to have more longevity and not crash and burn hopefully and whatever.

Like, yeah, there's always that in the back of your mind. Like, am I doing this because I really want to and should and I'm president or am I just doing it to get an outcome so that I can continue to work probably more than I should? But man, when it's those things that just are like, this gives me the greatest joy. And I know like when God looks down just like we do and he sees his children, like just with their hearts filling up.

He probably smiles down and he goes, man, I'm so happy that they're enjoying that right now. And, and so I love that. I think that's really cool.

Jason Allison (35:24)
Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, I saw I want to invite our listeners to, you know, to send some ideas in about ways, maybe that, you know, creative ways, different ways that you have created some palette cleansing activities or environments even.

in your rhythm of ministry and life and leading because I those would be fun to share right because this is the positive that we could talk all about the Horrible things happening in the world around us. We could talk about it, know the the the political situation all the different things That's fine. And there's a place for that But sometimes you just need a little joy, right? You need a little palate cleanser

Rob Paterson (36:05)
Mmm.

Jason Allison (36:07)
in what you're doing. so please write in, shoot us an email at json at churchtalkproject.com or rob at churchtalkproject.com ⁓ or both. Yeah, you can actually do both. can actually send us a text through the podcast feed, but the problem is if you don't give me your email address when you do that, I can't.

Rob Paterson (36:15)
Or both.

Jason Allison (36:28)
Reply to it. So because I know somebody sent in some stuff last week and I'm like, I want to reply, but I can't because I and I didn't have their contact info in my phone, so it wouldn't help it. But, you know, send us some of these ideas. I think it would be fun to hear what different people do.

Rob Paterson (36:29)
Mm.

Yeah, so hey, I got one more thing here before we land this plane because I suspect there might be people listening in who think this, you know, maybe because like you like you, they have guilt from the past or guilt from whatever, know, they haven't they haven't, you know, whatever I could keep going there, but I shouldn't. And so I suspect there's some people who maybe have this sense.

I really wish I was a palate cleansing kind of person, but I know I just bring heartache and problems that I need help solving and trouble. And so I'm, I'm the reason why, you know, Rob and Jason and people in my church and whoever need palate cleansing people and activities. Cause I just am that life draining kind of person.

And I think this is an important thing to say, because I was actually, in the last week I was having a conversation with somebody. I love them. I love them. I love their whole family. Man, they have and do bring so much joy to my life and my family. But again, just because of some life experiences and some things, they just sort of bring this hypersensitivity to when they disagree about something. They're like, well,

I'm like, I'm, I'm, getting in the way and I'm preventing and I just, don't want to do that because I love and you know, like, and, and, and so we we had some conversation and then we had some interaction back and forth through text message after that. And the, the, the, of the things this person said to me was I just don't want to be any trouble. And I said this, I said, listen, at some point we are all trouble, right? Like there's no such thing as.

Like whether that's just because like the needs I have in this moment or the things going on in my life, like we're all trouble. And you know what? One of the ways we know that people love us and that we're worthwhile is because they say, listen, even when you're trouble, you are worth it. And so I'm willing to put up with the trouble part. And I even like added onto that, like I'm really, really thankful that my wife, Bethany,

is willing to put up with the trouble that I am probably more often than any of us would feel comfortable acknowledging. And so she does that because Rob is worth it and I love him. And so again, like just if you're like worried because it's a season of life or maybe you just have some tendencies or maybe you just feel like the odd person out in the environments you're in. No, no, no, no. Like your presence and your voice bring health and balance to whatever.

Jason Allison (39:13)
Mm-hmm.

Rob Paterson (39:23)
like church or ministry or situation that is, and just know like it's okay. Like if you're just constantly, you know, dragging everything down, maybe that's a different issue. But we are all troublesome times, but guess what? We are worth it and we need people who love us in spite of the difficulties we bring to the table from time to time.

Jason Allison (39:43)
Amen. I prefer to call those kind of people spicy as opposed as opposed to the palate cleansers. And sometimes you need a little spice and then sometimes you got to cleanse the palate so you can get to the next spicy person. And I think it's it's all good. Yeah. And that you know what? As pastors, one of the things we need to continually do is to remind the people that we serve that they are worth.

Rob Paterson (39:47)
Thanks

I like space.

Jason Allison (40:10)
Investing in their work because god made the ultimate investment in them. So we also are going to do the same thing Well, I appreciate everybody listening. We love you know, we love hearing from you We we are cheering for you Honestly, like we we want to see the people who are engaged in the church talk podcast world We want to see them thrive and flourish and we love to hear your stories

We want to be there to support in any way we can. So feel free to reach out and we hope you have an amazing week. And if you're going to do something for Lent, give something up or, whatever, then, Hey, let us know. Let's, let's, we'll, we'll make sure and, and not, you know, tempt you beyond what you can bear. I can tell you, I'm not going to give up golf for Lent mainly because I do have a golf trip, but also because, I mean, let's be honest though, Lent in Ohio.

It's pretty easy to give up things like golf because it's not going to be warm enough till after Easter to do anything fun.

Rob Paterson (41:07)
Will you give up bourbon and cigars for lunch?

Jason Allison (41:10)
No, I'm sorry that that is just not gonna happen No, I mean Jesus can give up his life but you know not so I'm going to hell now, aren't I Rob? Thanks. I appreciate that on that note everybody have an amazing week and we will see you next week

Rob Paterson (41:14)
Too steep of an ask.

Sorry.