L-M-N-O-Play! Unlocking Childhood Magic Through Picture Books and Play

How can picture books and play combine to spark creativity, empathy, and joy in our youngest learners? Join the conversation with Rachel Rubin and Annie Dycus, the innovative minds behind L-M-N-O Play, a subscription service that uses open-ended play and amazing picture books to engage young minds (while sparking wonder in their grown ups as well).

“Something we really need in our world is children who think outside the box and know how to solve problems. And we think play and picture books —the marriage of the two — is the perfect solution for helping to raise kind, smart, brilliant, imaginative children.” — Annie Dycus, co-founder, L-M-N-O Play

“Not only are we always looking to find that next great kind of undiscovered potential in a great picture book, but also to share with families how they can do this at home and make these amazing moments through just a really simple act.” — Rachel Rubin, co-founder, L-M-N-O Play

Summary: 

Dive into the transformative power of picture books and play in early childhood education with Rachel Rubin and Annie Dycus, co-founders of L-M-N-O Play. Learn how their unique approach to connecting play with picture books fosters creativity, problem-solving, and empathy in children, while providing a fresh perspective for adults. 

From beloved childhood classics to new favorites, Rachel and Annie share insights on how interactive storytelling and playful activities create profound connections and broaden horizons. Discover the magic of storytelling as a tool for cultural awareness, and explore the timeless value of play and picture books in a digital age. Whether you're a parent, educator, or simply love children's literature, this episode offers invaluable advice and inspiration to cultivate a lifetime love for reading and play in our youngest learners.

Chapters:

• 1:01: Origins of L-M-N-O Play
• 4:03:Importance of Learning Through Play
• 7:08:A Horse Named Steve: Walking Through L-M-N-O Play Process 
• 13:39:Open-ended and closed-ended play
• 17:19:Social-emotional learning through books and play
• 19:51:Building core connections to picture books
• 22:13:Value of First Book Friends
• 26:57:Power of Play and Picture Books Across Ages and Stages
• 32:42:Favorite Books Featured in the L-M-N-O Play Subscription
• 34:59:Finding Hope Through Play and Empathy

Links:

L-M-N-O Play Website

Follow @lmnoplaynyc on Instagram and Facebook

Follow Annie Dycus and Rachel Rubin on LinkedIn

Transcript

[00:00] Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor: So welcome to the Adventures in Learning podcast.

[00:03] Sometimes life is full of fabulous serendipity.

[00:07] And on a cold and rainy Saturday,

[00:10] I happened to be in the Barnes and Noble in New York and I overheard a conversation and I couldn't help but insert myself into it. And I'm so glad I did,

[00:21] because I found not one, but two people who love children's books and early childhood as much as I do and who have the most amazing company, ElementoPlay.

[00:31] And so I am going to welcome Rachel and Annie onto the show and we're going to spend the next half hour having just the best conversation about books and early childhood and play.

[00:41] So, Rachel and Annie, welcome to the show

[00:47] Intro: Wonder, Curiosity, Connection.Where will your adventures take you? I'm Dr. Diane and thank you for joining me on today's episode of Adventures in Learning.

[00:59] Rachel Rubin: Thank you.

[01:00] Annie Dycus: Very nice.

[01:01] Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor: I'm so glad you're here. So let's start by introducing you to the audience. Can you tell us a little bit about who you are, what brought you together, and how elementoplay came to be sure.

[01:13] Annie Dycus: So I'm Annie and it's my partner Rachel. We met in kindergarten,not as kindergarteners, but as teachers. We both have extensive experience as teachers, preschool and kindergarten mostly. And when we left the classroom, we decided that we really wanted to focus on what we love the most, which is children's books, and what we have the most experience in, which is literacy and early learning and play.

[01:39] And so we, in 2018, we built our, our little company called L-M-N-O Play the consecutive letters in the Alphabet. And we started with in person book clubs with children and families, helping children to have a more extended experience with a book by bringing it to life through play.

[01:58] Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor: Excellent. Rachel, tell us a little about you too.

[02:00] Rachel Rubin: Yeah, so like Annie said, we've been teaching forever in the classroom. And even though we left, we loved the idea of connecting with children and around picture books.

[02:11] And we also kind of developed this idea of learning through play and having this. Well, we didn't develop the idea of learning through play, but we strongly, strongly believe that picture books hold everything that you need and can kind of unlock all types of math and science and literacy learning and also kind of just create these wonderful humans.

[02:29] You know, when you find a great picture book, you read it and you just, there's always a message. Ideally, not kind of over the head, not one of those, you know, teaching books to the moral, but you see kids kind of connect with characters and connect with themes and by allowing them to explore those through open ended play invitations,

[02:46] we are really able to see the value of that while we were running our in person classes and now we figured out how to kind of translate that into our book club.

[02:55] So after many years of teaching our book club, we called it Books Before Screens,which was the name of our class for children in person in New York City. We've now really focused on developing those types of experiences for children to have at home in a really simple and easy way.

[03:12] Parents, we know you're busy. We want to make it really accessible so that your kid gets so super excited to get this package of this beautiful picture book that we curate and all of these different activities tucked inside, which are really just those ideas and those prompts for the type of play that will kind of just take over and let itself kind of grow organically in your home using just the stuff you already have on hand.

[03:37] And so, yeah, we're just really excited to be able to now reach families. We started the book club only in 2023, and so that's why you found me in Barnes and Noble. Not only are we always looking to find that next great kind of undiscovered potential in a great picture book, but also to hopefully, you know, share with families about how they can do this at home and kind of make these amazing moments through just a really simple act.

[04:03] Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor: So, let's talk a little bit about learning through play and we'll use that to sort of get our way into what you all do. Because I think it's important for the audience to sort of know what we mean,because we were talking before we got on the call and realized that between us, we probably have 50 years of early childhood experience in the Zoom Room. So what does it mean to learn through play? Why is it important?

[04:27] Annie Dycus: Sure, I can start. Children are naturally experts at play. Children are driven to play. It's how they learn to discover their world. It's how they learn to solve problems.

[04:39] It's how they learn to communicate with each other. It's how they learn to finesse their language skills.

[04:44] It's how they grow their large motor and their fine motor skills. The most important thing about play, and let me just stop for one second.

[04:53] Play is limitless, especially open ended play. Children are motivated to learn when they learn through play because it's something that they actually care about, that's meaningful, that's important to them. If you contrast learning through play with learning, because sort of a top down model where someone tells you you need to learn this or memorize this, you know, a child is doing it in order to please a parent or an adult in their life, which is something that children do all the time. But when they learn through play, they're deeply, deeply invested to go all the way to the end of a problem, to solve it, to compromise.

[05:29] So we believe that when children learn through play, it's how they learn best, because it belongs to them, because they care about it, because they can be creative, and because ultimately they become stronger thinkers and innovators, more curious individuals and even more empathetic, kind human beings.

[05:48] And we feel that that is something that we really need in our world, is children who think outside the box and know how to solve problems. And we think play and picture books —the marriage of the two — is the perfect solution for helping to raise kind, smart, brilliant, imaginative children.

[06:07] Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor: And I'd even add the side effect to that is when you've got adults working hand in hand, not directing the play, but stopping what they're doing and sitting down and being part of the play, you're reactivating that for the grownup as well. Because I think as a society, we've forgotten how to play. And those same things apply. If we want adults who are creative, collaborative problem solvers, then it starts by sitting down and playing and reigniting that spark of wonder and curiosity and connection, I think.

[06:39] Rachel Rubin: Absolutely. Yeah. And we know it could be overwhelming. We know it can kind of be intimidating because we've come so far from that.

[06:45] So we want to kind of create the invitation for the parents to join as well, and also the support so that, you know, we know parents aren't teachers. We know, you know, there's a lot of jargon out there and a lot of pressure to do the right thing.

[06:57] And ultimately, you know, we want to be seen as a support for the whole family around being able to kind of let go and know that what you're doing is enough and enjoy the process while you're there.

[07:08] Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor: So you guys have created a setting where families and kids can work together on this without it being overwhelming. Can you sort of walk us through what that might look like? Like, if I were to receive a subscription from you all, what would I be getting, and what might I do this month with my kid?

[07:26] Rachel Rubin: Sure. Well, this month's book club is actually very special. It's called A Horse Named Steve. So, again, you know, the most important part, I would say, of the process is finding that book.

[07:37] You know, Annie and I both, we agreed if we don't both fall in love with the book immediately, it's gone. And of course, that can be very subjective. But for us, we kind of at this point have a have a little bit of a criteria around it because we want it to be engaging, we don't want it to be super well known, and we want it to kind of serve as that platform for all of the play that we are going to kind of gently tease out of it that it's possible.

[08:00] So we pick, you know, these books, we connect with the publishers around them, and then we really put our heads together and design three or more kind of play experiences that will connect with that. So, for example, this month, so you get a book every month. You can look forward to kind of this new read and play experience.

[08:19] So you'll get in the package. We always address it to the child and we have a little fun puppet friend named Pompom who puts in actual little pom poms so that the kids can look forward to that gift and again, get really excited about their book club and then, yeah, they're able to open their book.

[08:35] You know, we don't want to prescribe exactly how it goes at home because we know this could, you know, a lot of things could happen. But the whole idea is that children see this book as a play toy, basically, essentially that they see it on the shelf, not as just a book that they, you know, read for bedtime or that's read to them at bedtime, but that is kind of, again, this key to unlocking this whole world of play. And so that they're associating like, oh, this is my L-M-N-O Play book.

[09:00] You know, we want it to come out whenever. So, you know, we hope that they read the book and get excited, whether they're looking at on their own and looking at the pictures or actually having it read to them and then exploring these activities in the back of the book.

[09:12] And Annie. Yeah. Maybe you can grab out the Horse named Steve. Horse named Steve one while I'm chatting because I think it's really cool to be able to see exactly what we're talking about. We know it's, you know, hard to know until you get it in your hands, but we have these activities stuck in the back of the book and we always write how long they're going to take kind of in terms of the expectation for the setup, whether or not the grownup has to be there the whole time.

[09:39] And. Yeah, we can just kind of walk you through it. Yeah. Right.

[09:43] Annie Dycus: So this book is amazing and hilarious. And Rachel and I found this book and instantly knew sometimes it's this wonderful thing when we find a book and we're like, oh, the kids have got to see this book.

[09:55] So this book is called A Horse Named Steve. It's about a horse who finds a golden horn in the forest and wants to be extraordinary. I'm not going to spoil the book.

[10:03] You would receive this book in an envelope with the pom poms. You would enjoy your book. And then there's the little horn. And then at the back of the book, we have what we call our play pocket. And the play pocket has some cards inside of it. And the cards are things that we design each month.

[10:22] Take them out. We start with a welcome card that says time for book club. We tell you why we chose the book, and then we give you a QR code that takes you to the digital companion. So every single month, each book has a whole slew of additional material that is online. You can use it if you want to. If you don't want to, that's okay, too. But those things can include playlists or videos with our puppet,

[10:48] or we have, I mean, printables. There's so much that comes online as well. But anyway, so in the book, you get this. And then on the back, we talk about how the learning is in the play. We use our icons to tell you not only what kinds of learning opportunities you might find in this month's book club experience, but also what materials you need.

[11:09] We try to keep the activities, or we do keep the activities incredibly simple. You don't have to go out and buy stuff. You can open up your junk drawer or your arts and crafts cabinet or.

[11:19] Rachel Rubin: Kitchen cabinet, your old roll of toilet paper.

[11:22] Annie Dycus: It's really important to us that you and your child begin to believe and understand that your child's imagination, an amazing book, and a few prompts from us will help you begin the journey. Our job is to help you begin the journey of bringing the book to life.

[11:38] And then your child will hopefully develop this connection and relationships to books and see them all that way. So then after the welcome card, we have three cards, three activity cards, and each one has a sort of almost like a recipe for play. On the back, we have little activities. This is a find and search.

[11:57] This one. Well, I won't spend too much time. This one takes one minute to set up. Super fun. We always explain the why play, why we chose that activity, what you might learn, they're all really, really easy. This one is pretty heavily socially emotional. Again, takes one minute to set up. And then this last one is something new that we just started, that's called a play page.

[12:17] So we are, we've been putting in a little play page that's really just for the child. This one is about building your own horn. You can cut it out and decorate it and have your own unique horn like Steve the horse.

[12:28] Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor: Oh, I love it.

[12:29] Annie Dycus: I will say that Rachel and I have a lot of fun and we really try so hard. You know, we talked earlier about parents and children and parents being able to put themselves and adults putting themselves in the place of children.

[12:39] I think when we build these activities, we try to bring our expertise as teachers and educators and longtime researchers of play and development.

[12:48] But we try to bring the playful attitude of a child so that what you receive in the mail will spark joy and will be fun and exciting and really easy.

[13:04] Promo Is your school or district stuck trying to figure out how to connect science and STEM with literacy? If so, reach out to Dr. Diane's Adventures in Learning. We offer full and half day workshops designed to leave your faculty excited, excited, energized and ready to go into curriculum planning with an open mind. We use research based approaches in order to help you learn how to create and engage. You'll learn how to connect multicultural picture books to stem steam learning for engaged learners across your curriculum. Sound interesting? Reach out today. You can learn more@drdianadventures.com

[13:39] Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor: Welcome back from the break. You know, we talked a little bit about play in terms of learning through play and social emotional learning. But there are other kinds of play as well. And I was wondering, would you be willing to talk a little bit about the difference between open ended and closed ended play and how you all work with that?

[14:06] Annie Dycus: Sure, sure. So all of the activities that we include in our book clubs are open ended or guided play. And, and just to speak specifically to open ended play, the idea behind open ended play is that your child can make of the play whatever they want to make of it.

[14:24] To give you an example, a closed ended toy would be a little toy phone with buttons on it. There's one use for that toy. It's a phone. You're pressing the buttons, maybe it makes a noise. That's all you can do with it. It's already decided for you. But if you give a child a block, which is an open open ended material, it can be a phone. Five seconds later it can turn into an airplane, it can be a building block for a house. It can be anything to anyone. One of the reasons why open ended play is so beautiful, not only because it sort of creates that endless reinvention of play, but it also makes play more accessible.

[15:02] So where you're coming towards the play with whatever your needs are you, you can take an open ended material. With open ended play and even with guided play prompts, open ended questions such as, oh, tell me more about what you're doing, I'm curious about that painting. What can you tell me about it? Questions that don't lead you to a specific adult driven answer or an adult driven function, but that let the child recreate their own experience and have endless, endless, endless possibility for learning and self driven, self owned play.

[15:36] Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor: I love that. I think that's so important and it sounds like what you all have put together really provides those prompts to allow the adults to be able to offer invitations to open ended play, but then to let the child run with it and really make it their own.

[15:54] Rachel Rubin: Absolutely.

[15:55] Annie Dycus: And you know, the funny thing is that as a when I had my little children, my children were little. It's a lot of pressure to have little children, right. You wonder, am I asking the right questions? Am I doing the right thing? Am I setting up? The truth is the play will do it for you. With a few open ended questions, you can learn from your child. It's all built in, it's all in the mixture, right. So you just learn to relax and trust the play.

[16:20] Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor: I can feel all of that and I definitely hear the preschool teacher, the early childhood expert coming through as well because I, I can hear it in the lack of having to go out and buy something. You've kept it simple and stuff that you can do. I mean, as teachers we know that we make do with whatever's at hand and you're more likely to do it if you can just grab something out of the drawer as well.

[16:45] Rachel Rubin: And the independence around that. Right. Allowing the children to kind of see the potential in those everyday things to be. Because they're usually more open ended. Right. To start to look at things differently, if you, you know, end up using a colander to stick spaghetti strings in or end up using it to make a weaving, you're going to start to look at the things around you, which is also very environmental. Right. To be like, how can I reuse, how can I repurpose these things?

[17:08] Because they're really developing this independent muscle of imagination and creation of the fun for themselves. It's not coming at them. They're kind of the creators and the owners of it.

[17:19] Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor: So as you're talking, what I'm hearing is that you're really emphasizing different types of play within the books and that each month it's going to vary. So you mentioned social emotional learning.What, why is social emotional learning important? And what kinds of things can we draw out of books to help support that?

[17:37] Rachel Rubin: Oh, so like we, you know, all of our, when we started our company and we're running classes, we always had something called a play based mission. And that really felt like to us the way to say what is the kind of like social emotional outcome that we can expect from engaging with the book on face value? The content in the book and then what are the experiences that we can draw out that will kind of again bring those feelings and those experiences to life? And so the books all by nature, you know, have an element of that.

[18:06] But like you said, every book can kind of vary in terms of the types of activities and what the learning is that you're going to get out of it. But I would say one of the things that we've stuck to every time is created these interactive read aloud questions.

[18:20] So again, we know not all parents are teachers. And so by kind of providing those questions that you can ask that are open ended and that are going to kind of get children to connect with the characters or empathize or sympathize or wonder, that’s one way that we are able to always ensure that that piece of the book is coming through if parents are choosing to engage with their kids in that way.

[18:40] And then I would just say again, the experiences, it’s, we're designing them for you to do at home. So we might have to kind of go under the assumption that you are alone or maybe you have a sibling. But we're able to kind of do these things to develop that personality, that self confidence, things that we do around, you know, looking in the mirror and going for affirmations or creating a museum of me and celebrating all of the special things about you, writing letters to people, you know, thinking about all those different ways that you can kind of foster that and again through the connection in the book. So you're like, oh, I'm just like that character or I felt like this character went.

[19:15] And so developing that empathy is really important for us. And then like you said, children learn in so many different ways. And so we want to make sure also that all the different types of learners are represented.

[19:26] So one week might be more heavy on, one month might be more heavy on science or math or literacy and all of that kind of is in there, but it's never one note. So. So it's always kind of baked in and that's what we love about learning through play is that you don't have to follow one lane. You don't have to feel like you're doing one thing. It's all gonna be in there, and it's gonna come out when the children are truly engaged.

[19:49] Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor: I love that. Go ahead, Annie.

[19:51] Annie Dycus: I just wanna add that, you know, I think that if you ask almost any adult to think back to their childhood about a book that they love, most of us, can. It kind of makes a little flutter in the heart. Right. Because those are some of our really deep memories. I think there's something incredibly beautiful about picture books.

[20:10]I think we all three of us might agree that in some ways they’re underappreciated by adults because we believe that picture books are a little bit like poetry getting married with great art.

[20:23] Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor: Yes.

[20:24] Annie Dycus: And I think that there's something about a picture book's ability. The great ones. There's a lot of books that are written just to sort of teach a lesson or that's okay too.

[20:36] Rachel Rubin: Right.

[20:37] Annie Dycus: But the great ones are written to really hit you in your heart. And I think that those books are the ones that we remember forever. Those books inspire us to think outside of our own vantage point and meet people where they are. They challenge us. They give us the opportunity to feel great about ourselves or see someone like us that we haven't seen anywhere else thriving in a picture book. Picture books are these perfect, magical little windows to the world.

[21:10] And, I mean, I think that's one of the reasons that we do what we do, because we love the idea of being able to celebrate both the children who receive the books and the books themselves and artists and the writers who made them.

[21:22] Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor: I love that. And you touched on something that's so important to me. I was thinking as you were talking, the idea that we can provide books that Illuminate a child's own experience. You know, that sort of mirror. But also, so many kids don't get the opportunity to leave sort of their block or their city or their town and to be able to open them up to other ways of thinking. You know, the world's bigger than that one spot. And to have that window experience, to be able to experience what other cultures, other people are like.Talk about building your empathy muscle. You've got a chance to transform and transport through the portals of a book, and you're doing it through play. So you've got these memorable, wonderful characters, and then you've got other ways to engage and connect.

[22:13] Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor: So I'm gonna ask you guys. Cause I'm curious. And Annie, you sort of hit this. What was your favorite picture book growing up? Like, if you think about sort of what that picture book is, that first book, friend, you know, it's.

[22:26] Annie Dycus: So this is like choosing. I mean, I can't choose my favorite child.

[22:29] Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor: I know.

[22:30] Annie Dycus: But I will tell you one book that I truly, truly, deeply love, that it's hard to find these days, is a book called the Big Orange Splot by Daniel Manus Pinkwater.

[22:42] And it's actually the book that is the reason that Rachel and I met. Because I came into her classroom and I read that book with the children in her room. And then we ended up working together.

[22:52] It's a gorgeous, gorgeous little kind of funky. I think it might have been published. I'm not sure the publication date, but I want to say the 70s.

[23:00] It's about a guy, a street that's perfectly uniform, where all the houses look exactly the same. And one day a seagull, curiously carrying a bucket of paint in its beak, as seagulls tend to do, of course.

[23:11] Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor: Of course.

[23:12] Annie Dycus: Flies over Mr. Plumbeen's house and spills a giant orange splot on Mr. Plumbean's house. The book ends up being about conformity, non conformity. How can we be ourselves in a world where everyone looks alike? You know, going back to our last conversation that we had,it's about neighbors. It's about kindness and open mindedness and crazy, shocking, hilarious creativity. It's a book I think everybody should have.

[23:41] Rachel Rubin: Love it.

[23:41] Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor: How about you, Rachel?

[23:42] Rachel Rubin: Mine might be a little more, you know, superficial. Since I was reading it and loving it when I was a young child, my answer would be probably different now. But I loved a book called Florence and Eric Take the Cake.

[23:54] And I think one of the cool things, again about these books is that, you know, we know most people do grow up with the same types of books. But then it is interesting to think, like, why? Which one of the books today is going to be that one that kind of carries on and has that lasting impact?

[24:08] And for me, Florence and Eric Take the Cake. I don't even know who the author and illustrator was, but it was just a fun book. It was silly. I think it was. It's lambs and they're having this whole thing around a mix up between a cake and a hat because the hat looks like the cake and the cake looks like the hat and they end up bringing the wrong one over.

[24:26] So the woman puts on the cake and the people at the knitting circle eat the hat. And it's just kind of one of those, like fun, goofy, memorable stories that I'm enjoying now, reading to my nieces and just has the lasting power of just a good time.

[24:42] Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor: Yeah, I love that. Mine was Peter's Chair, the Ezra Jack Keats book. And I was this many years old before I figured out why that book was so important to me. But it's the timing, because it came into my life at a time when I identified strongly with Peter. I was five, he was five. We lived in an apartment building. He lived in an apartment building. My parents decided to ruin my life with a sister. His parents decided to ruin his life with a sister. He had a. I had a dog named Muffins. He had a dog named Willie. So, you know, all the parallels in my five year old mind, they were right there.

[25:17] And then his dad saw that he was hurting and got him involved in. Let's paint these things for your baby sister. And my dad, who was in the army at the time, happened to be home and realized what was going on and did the same things. And so it was sort of going, oh, life imitates art, or art imitates life. Cause I don't know if my parents got the book because of the situation or if I gravitated to that book on the shelf because of where I was. I couldn't tell you that I was five. I just know that Peter was my friend.

[25:48] Rachel Rubin: That's.

[25:49] Annie Dycus: That's amazing. That's beautiful.

[25:50] Rachel Rubin: I know, I just got the chills. I love that.

[25:52] Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor: Well, and it was funny in the Barnes and Noble, you know, I have two daughters and one is in Richmond, and the other one was the one that you met was Ella t was that day that she wanted to go through Barnes and Noble. And I wasn't expecting this, but she got so excited as we went through. She's like, mom, it's Olivia. Mom, it's. King Bidgood’s In the Bathtub, Look, it’s Barnyard Dance!

[26:16] And I went, okay, so what she's showing me is that all of these characters made a difference. They had an impact. And, you know, there were certain ones that she definitely remembered from her childhood in ways that I think have powerfully influenced what she does now.

[26:32] You know, she's a storyteller. And I've got to say that the characters probably had something to do with that. At least I hope they did.

[26:38] Annie Dycus:I mean, I think that all adults should read picture books. We do learn from children, you know, and, and picture books can bring you back. It's, you know, it's like the best kind of therapy. They're like these warm, wonderful little portals that heal us.

[26:57] Rachel Rubin: And I think also to that point with, with adults enjoying it is that we, we have a pretty wide range of children that we send the books to. Some kids are three, some kids are seven. And the reason that we think at this, that this works for us that we send them the same book is because you can access the same book in so many different ways at different ages over time. And the same thing goes for the play activities as well. Right. What it might look for one child to,you know, build a toy boat is gonna look very different for another. Right. And then what are the things that come after that? Right. The child, the younger child may just have built the boat and it's over, but the other child is gonna be looking around for materials and trying to perfect that boat and make sure it's not gonna sink.

[27:36] And you know, so we know that there's kind of this potential that lies within the open ended nature of the activities.

[27:42] And just like the solid, solid piece of the book that's just going to be super successful and enjoyable and meaningful for children of all ages and adults. You never age out of play, right?

[27:53] Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor: Exactly.

[27:54] Rachel Rubin: There's no age limit on play.

[27:56] Annie Dycus: And also you might go back to that book, right?

[27:58] Rachel Rubin: Yes.

[27:58] Annie Dycus: Do those activities when you're three.

[28:01] But you have your, your L-M-N-O Play book on your bookshelf on the back it says let's play. Maybe you'll go back to it when you're five and people talk to things in a completely different way.

[28:10] Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor: That was gonna be. My question is. So the age range for the subscriptions, it sounds like it runs pretty wide.

[28:17] Rachel Rubin: Yeah.

[28:18] Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor: Birth to ?

[28:20] Rachel Rubin: I think at this point we're pushing, we're doing two to seven is kind of where we find the most people having the most kind of usefulness out of it, both because they have siblings and because they're able to return to them.

[28:32] You know, you always have people maybe on the outlying edges that it's like kind of sinking in for. But I think for us we've found that again, because of the open ended nature, children are able to come to it in different ways at different times.

[28:45] And that then you're building a library. You know, part of it for a lot of families too is just there are so many books out there. You walk into a bookstore or you hear something about a book.

[28:54] And so for us, we love the idea of being able to give that kind of assurance that you are going to get this super quality, amazing book every month to build up this library of books that your children can independently access and play with.

[29:08] Right. So it's kind of this idea of making this collection over time, as parents like to do. Right. And if they like to start doing that when they're two, for the most part, with picture books, we also have lots of plans in mind for the.

[29:20] The littlest ones, because we want them reading at zero. We want them engaging with the types of books and the types of play. For right now, we kind of find that that age range and those are the kids that kind of also are at home, you know, maybe after school or weekends or, you know, after nap time or whatever it might be that are kind of, you know, looking for something like this like an alternative to kind of plopping your kid in front of a screen will be to kind of facilitate this type of play and to allow that time, whether it's time for a parent to be with their child or a parent to, you know, get the dinner on the stove or whatever it might be, it kind of allows for all of that to be happening and for you to use it in a way that makes sense for you as a family and yeah, just hopefully be a really, really helpful resource.

[30:10] Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor: And it sounds like with the QR codes that you'd be able to go back and reuse and check out additional materials all the way through.

[30:19] Rachel Rubin: Absolutely. We want to make sure that you can reprint the things that were on the cards or that you can again get this additional information.

[30:26] And I did just want to make mention that the online experience is more for that, for it to live as kind of an archive and to be able to revisit things if you lose the card or it gets wet or you want to reprint things and that the material that's on there,like the read aloud questions and the activities themselves, are still just for parent eyes only. We're not creating a companion, a digital experience for children, times that they would be looking at the screen. The children themselves are for these videos that we have on YouTube, you know, of us and our puppet Pom Pom, whether we're reading books or teaching a letter sound or, you know, doing something like that.

[31:02] But that's the only part of that online experience that is for children. Right. And so for us, it's really just about making it easy for parents to access and use on the go in a way that makes sense for them.

[31:15] But really Kind of tying those experiences to the physical book. The experience of holding it in your hand and, you know, looking around you for how to make it the best it can be.

[31:26] Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor: Go ahead, Annie, add one quick thing.

[31:28] Annie Dycus: Which is, you know, you asked about the age ranges and you know, I think that when, when we think about buying books for our children, sometimes we think about our desire to help them learn to read eventually. And if, you know, one of our ultimate goals is to help children build a meaningful connection with the book, one that is rooted in joy.

[31:49] We believe that if they're picking up a book and thinking, oh, this, this means play, this means joy and love and connection and happiness, then when it comes time to really learn how to decode and read in the way that you'll learn in school from a teacher, you're going to be ready and committed and want to do that because you think of books with joy. And if you're a 7 year old and you're in school and you're, oh, gotta go practice learning the phonemes for, you know, bringing the joy back to reading can be a really beautiful thing for a much younger children.

[32:21] Starting them off with this joyful, really whole body connection with literature, that is a beautiful thing too. Any way you hit it, you're teaching a child that books are all about possibilities. And whoever you are, wherever you are, whatever. I don't like to use the word levels, but wherever you are in your there's something in here for you that you'll connect with and you'll find your way to grow at your level.

[32:48] Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor: You're building an ecosystem of joyful learning and you're doing it through play. So I have to ask because I did tell you all that I wanted to hear. Do you have a favorite book that you have brought into L-M-N-O Play?

[33:03] Rachel Rubin: Ooh, Ooh. I. Oh, it's so hard.

[33:06] Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor: I know. I'm asking you to pick your favorite child.

[33:08] Rachel Rubin: On book 18, I think. So we've got a lot to choose from and that it is especially hard, I think, because, because we have to make sure they're all so good. Oh, Annie's gonna go for it. Go for it.

[33:21] Annie Dycus: I think this is probably gonna be my. I mean, I, you know, I love them all. I don't know, there's so many great books, but this is one that I really love, Cause it's about friendship. It's also really funny. We found this book in, in England and brought it over here. This book, it actually also has a read aloud attached to it this book, I mean, we hear time and time again that the kids playing with the activities from this book are just absolutely loving it. So this one is really fun and special for me.

[33:48] Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor: Frank and Bart. Is that right?

[33:50] Rachel Rubin: Frank and Bart.

[33:51] Annie Dycus: Frank and Bart, Frank and Bart is amazing.

[33:54] Rachel Rubin: I mean, there was a big hit last summer and I think we're gonna. Spoiler alert, bring em back with another version this summer because it was so, so enjoyed for me, it would have to be Odd Dog Out. Odd Dog out was one of our first ones. It's. It has a rhyming. It's by Rob Adolph. It has a rhyming cadence.

[34:12] It's all about, you know, a dog that feels like they don't fit in because they aren't conforming, they don't look like them. Traveling far and away to find people that are just like them, being successful and then realizing that, you know, somebody there also is a misfit. And that the value in kind of standing out and being your own person. And it's a really fun one that again, kids are able to connect to.

[34:34] And it's not these lessons beating you over the head around like be yourself. It's you're literally watching this hilarious dog, you know, show their two colors and then teaching the rest of the community that they should literally show themselves on the outside and how amazing they are.

[34:49] And so, yeah, I think it's those, those moments that really, really get you. It's nice. It's just amazing.

[34:59] Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor: That's awesome. All right, so last question for today. I'm going to drop all of the contact information in the show notes so if people would like to learn more, they'll be able to find L-M-N-O Play. But what currently brings you hope?

[35:15] Rachel Rubin: Trick question at the end. I love that question because I feel like we need it more and more. And so coming from educators and folks who work to bring empathy and joy, I figure you all are good people dealing in hope right now.

[35:30] Annie Dycus: I'll share a quick anecdote. This is actually from the pandemic, but it's the same now. In the middle of the pandemic when I think we felt as separated as people. It was a funny time, right? We were incredibly separated physically.We were doing a zoom class in which we were reading a book. I think it was my flower garden. And there was a child in Minnesota who had a little set of felt flowers, who had never met this little boy who lived in New York.

And we had read the book, we had played through it, we had taught the letter F. We. We were having a blast. And at one point she ran off and she got one of the flowers and she handed it through the screen, you know, up to the screen, and she said, this is like. Do you remember his name, Rach?

[36:13] Rachel Rubin: Mark. Mark.

[36:14] Annie Dycus: Yeah. So she handed the flower to Mark. She said, this is for Mark. I want Mark to have this.

[36:19] And I remember thinking in that very dark time that this was this beautiful moment where children automatically knew, through play, how to connect, how to share, how to be loving towards one another, even if they hadn't even seen each other's faces in person. And so, you know, I really do do believe that with books and play and a lot of love, we're all going to be okay.

[36:47] Rachel Rubin: Gives me hope. I think the fact that, you know, we've been doing a lot of thinking on how parents are picking their books and where they're getting them, and resoundingly, we know that there is still that value in this day and age of screens and everything, there is still that value and that desire to collect picture books.

[37:03] And if we know that the great ones are out there and that they themselves hold the key to developing the type of people that we want to be, you know, leading us and growing with us in the future, then I think just knowing that that's still on the table and that with. While newspapers and magazines and all of that may have gone digital, that the idea that there is something valuable still to be found in this mode brings me a lot of hope, because I think that, you know, like we said, it's the foundation for. For everything, and we hope to be able to help people kind of unlock that the best that they can.

[37:36] Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor: Well, thank you so much. It has been such a delight to have you on the Adventures and Learning podcast. And, folks, you definitely need to check out elementoplay. And I think, as I'm listening to you, it's something that could benefit both families and potentially early childhood classrooms as well, So give it a look.

[37:53] Rachel Rubin: Thanks so much.

[37:55] Annie Dycus: Thank you.

[37:56] Outro:You’ve been listening to the Adventures in Learning podcast with your host, Dr. Diane. If you like what you're hearing, please subscribe, download, and let us know what you think. And please tell a friend.

[38:07] If you want the full show notes and the pictures, Please go to drdianadventures.com we look forward to you joining us on our next adventure.