The Engagement Effect: Transforming Learning with Steve Spangler

Imagine...

Imagine stepping into a space where learning is a magical journey, igniting curiosity and wonder. Picture students engaging with the material in a way that lights a spark. And this engagement isn't limited to the classroom -- it's available to people from all walks of life. This is the world Steve Spangler envisions in his groundbreaking book, The Engagement Effect. Join us as we explore how the right mix of curiosity, trust, and unforgettable experiences can spark a chain reaction of engagement that transforms how we lead, teach, and connect.

Podcast Summary: 

We welcome back Steve Spangler, affectionately known as America's science teacher, as he shares insights from his new book, The Engagement Effect. Through anecdotes that include barfing pumpkins and fiery gummy bears, Steve illustrates the profound impact of engagement and connection in learning. We explore how these principles extend beyond classrooms into boardrooms, emphasizing the importance of authentic engagement in any setting.

Chapters:

• 01:31: What IS The Engagement Effect? 
• 10:46: Turning a "Best Day Ever" Experience into Something More
• 17:57:   Using Engagement To Help Cultivate Experiences That Learners Own
• 22:02:  Exploring the Engagement Effect as a Tool for Next-Level Connection
• 28:48:  Tools and Techniques for Building Genuine Connection
• 34:24: Pulling Back the Curtain on Engagement in Business and Social Media
• 37:51:The Magic of Engagement 

Links:

• Pre-order The Engagement Effect
• Join the Online Book Club in November: [email diane@drdianeadventures.com for details]
• Follow Steve Spangler on Instagram, YouTube, LinkedIn, and TikTok.
• Learn more about Science in the Rockies
• Listen to Steve Spangler on Episode 19 of the Adventures in Learning podcast.

Join us on this journey of discovery and learn how to transform your approach to education and leadership with The Engagement Effect.  Whether you're an educator, a leader, or simply curious about the power of connection, this episode is sure to inspire new ways of thinking.

Transcript

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00:02 - Dr Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
You know him as America's science teacher. You may have seen him on the Ellen Show. You might have seen his incredible YouTube science videos. He's currently got 4.3 billion I said billion views on social media and counting. He is an author, an educational leader, a thought. He's at the forefront of science, education and thought leadership and I'm lucky enough to call him my friend. Today we have him here to talk about his brand new book, which, for me, has been my top thing I've been looking forward to all year the Engagement Effect. Welcome to the show, Steve Spangler. 

00:43 - Steve Spangler (Guest)
Wow, I don't even know how I there's no way I could have had an introduction like that. You just, diane, would you just be on the road with me? I feel like I'm on fire there for a second. 

00:53 - Dr Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
You are on fire. What on earth are you doing? 

00:57 - Steve Spangler (Guest)
Oh, you know me, it's wherever I go. There's a small problem with the fire department, so you know. First of all, can I say thank you so much. You're so kind to do this. I've watched your podcast just take off, so it's really, really fun. If you're not, if you're watching this right now and you just popped into it because maybe I sent you a link and said take a look at Dr Diane's podcast, you got to follow and subscribe and she's got some great things. Go back and binge all the stuff ahead of this, because there's just so much good content. So, first of all, thank you so much for doing this and thank you so much for letting us take a few minutes to talk about the engagement effect. 

01:31 - Dr Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
Thank you so much for joining me. You know, knowing you and knowing how engagement has been central to your message for so many years. This book is on my must read list, and I'm so excited people are going to get to read it. Can you talk about why engagement is so important? What is the engagement effect? 

01:49 - Steve Spangler (Guest)
Yeah. So first of all, let's just say that this is. I've done books before, so science, experiment books, but, as my wife would say, this is your first real book that has words. It has subjects and verbs, there's punctuation, capital letters, so it's one of those. Now, don't worry, there are actually some pictures in the book. The very center of the book there's a ton of pictures, pictures that we've never really shared before, pictures of lovely Carly on stage and so behind the scenes, when Carly is doing all of her magic and making things happen. So there's some cool things that are that way, but how fun, and so I love that opening question. 

02:26
So what is the engagement effect? What does that really mean? Hopefully by the end of the podcast you'll go oh, so that is because when I just tell you at the very beginning here, when people connect with you through emotionally and intellectually, through an experience that you have cultivated look at all these words. So when people connect emotionally, intellectually, through an experience that you have cultivated Look at all these words. So when people connect emotionally, intellectually, through an experience you've created, you've designed, you've cultivated, and then they take that action and do something with it, that's what's so important, the 

03:15
 engagement effect. Um, and I think about it with, if you see in my eyes, a little trepidation because we were not going to call the book uh, the engagement effect. We, what do you think I was going to call the book the engagement effect? What do you think I was going to call the book Diane? You know me well enough and we've spent enough time together. 

03:29
Yeah, I was going to call it best day ever and for those of your followers those are the people who are watching that don't understand what does that mean? More than happy to give you the condensed version of that story if you want that a little bit later on. But that's feeling, and we're going to call it Best Day Ever. But the nice people at Forefront Books and Simon and Schuster so that's the pair that's there said you know what? I think that that's an education thing, that maybe teachers get it. 

03:55
And I said, well, all of this is looking at engagement through the lens of a teacher, through the lens of a scientist. And they said, yeah, and it kind of came out organically as we were talking and with the editors back and forth, they go well, isn't that the engagement effect? And you're like what the engagement effect? What is the engagement effect? And so it's interesting, and so now it's all things and talking about how we build those connections, so we can unpack that for you, diane, along the way. It really is a feeling, but I found out that there's there's it's more than a feeling. There's some empirical data with some pretty fun examples that are in the book as well. 

04:29 - Dr Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
Well, and that was going to be my question is sort of why is engagement a more important metric than, say, testing, for example? 

04:40 - Steve Spangler (Guest)
It is a more important metric but it's incredibly difficult to measure right, because it is a feeling. And so, to bring your listeners and your viewers kind of up to speed, I was in the classroom for 11 years and during that time in the classroom, as the story goes, I traded four walls for four wheels. I was on a cart, an AV cart. There's some of your viewers that don't even understand the words I just said. They're so young, I know, I know they are. We used to take a 600-pound TV and put it on, well before that, a film projector. But then we'd strap this thing down with truck tie-downs and you'd hit a bump, you'd take out a kid. You know how the whole thing works. But I started my career on an AV cart. My principal said great teachers are made by the teacher of them. And little did I know that I would spend 11 years, 11 years on a cart, going from room to room, asking the most important question that I learned early on from a great principal, and that was how can I help you? Those are the words that I was supposed to talk to the team. So I'd roll into the second grade team the week before and say all right, we're talking about force in motion next week. How can I help you? And we would lay that whole kind of process out. It was my second year teaching that I realized that, teachers, there's a day during the year that teachers hate and it's Halloween. And it was the one day I thought I could sneak in my own stuff because I had asked can I do my own thing if there's free time? There's no free time, right, halloween, there's free time. Every teacher wants you to do 15, 20 minutes in their room and so, as the story goes, I just put stuff on the cart and had a little show. Little did I know that that design right there, I would. It would change everything. I mean, we didn't have a kitchen like this. Like, if you look at this kitchen here, this is our set for DIY side. It's so easy to present it in here, cuz you got this, you're on an AV cart. You're on this cart that you're kind of pushing into their room, you know. So, um, in short, the pumpkin is. So first of all, you kick open the door and then you yell at the kids get to the back of the room, and the reason you say that is because we didn't have money for safety glasses. So I figured if they're in the back of the room that's a little bit easier. So get to the back of the room and then I've taken the pumpkin, carved pumpkin, put the face back in the pumpkin, put a small explosive in the pumpkin. A little striker like this, a little striker like this, that's all you need to light the acetylene gas that has been generated in the air. When it goes bam and the kids lose their mind, and so when they're screaming, you reach back and you get the hydrogen peroxide. We're gonna do elephant's toothpaste. You know, everybody knows elephant's toothpaste. Not 32 years ago TikTok wasn't even around. These kids have no idea what's gonna happen next. Put it in there, put the catalyst in. The foam comes out, which is absolutely beautiful. Science boys should have realized that that foam hasn't completely decomposed yet, and so it changes the color of the carpet in the same way it changes the color of your hair. 

07:30
Came out in the administrative hearing that if I was gonna pull those shenanigans, they should probably have a protective coating. That's on the. I didn't even know what the word shenanigans mean. It was in my record, diane. The word shenanigans is in my file. I like that. That's hilarious. 

07:46
I was going to teach them about candy, the energy that's in candy. Classic experiment you take a test tube and you put a little bit of an oxidizer it's a powder in the test tube. Then you use an aim and flame like this, a lighter, and you heat it up, turns it into a liquid, drop a gummy bear in. You could do a jelly bean, but who wants jelly? You want a gummy bear. Drop the gummy bear in. The gummy bear reacts with the oxidizer. You get a little flame, little flame and a little wisp of smoke. And the kids are like, well, there's the energy, right. But I was thinking, you know, it is a big show and the kids are far away. So just trade a test tube for an Erlenmeyer flask. That's a little bit better, right, a little bit more oxidizer. This isn't gonna work, but a blowtorch does. It's 1992, nobody cares. And so you blowtorch this thing up like that. 

08:32
And I remember to this day, diane, I remember reaching back and touching the gummy bear. But then I found five of its little friends right there and I just thought wonder what would happen. So I just scooped them up. Man, did we learn a lot that day? Because when you drop them all in like that. Fire comes out of the Erlenmeyer flask like a jet engine. It glows like an atomic reaction going on. 

08:55
The way it was reported in the newspaper is that Steve Spangler lit a kid's desk on fire. Not true. A gummy bear that was on fire got excited, jumped out of the flask and landed on a kid's desk. That's the power of the union. That's it. The union will give you the greatest things that you need to know. I didn't know what to do, so I just grabbed a book, wham right on top, I put out the little gummy bear. Kids are looking at me like what. And I just said whatever you do, don't tell your moms and dads about this. Which is code for a kid. Do tell mom and dad as fast as you can. 

09:28
But my favorite thing to close out the whole thing was my grandfather owned an antique store. He was a teacher, but his side hustle is he had an antique store. He said teachers make so much money sometimes we get a second job, and so that's why grandma and grandpa owned this cool store box, about this big, there's wires that came out of the box and a crank Little did we know that it created electricity. It generated electricity. So he'd have us all hold hands and we'd hang on to the two wires at the end and he'd get down and go hang on, and then he'd just crank this thing and he'd go don't let go, or you're a sissy. We wanted to be brave, we, you got to be brave, you're not gonna let go of that thing. And, man, we all it hurt. But it brought such great joy to grandpa that we just kind of took it in and he loved it. And so we'd go hey, grandpa, get the sissy machine, he'll get it, hold on, and he'd go get the and he'd bring it out. He passed away when I was 16 and when my grandmother was divvying up stuff along the way, she said you know, nobody likes the sissy machine as much as you and it's yours. And so at the age 16, I got this thing. What do you do with it? You put it on the AV cart and that's how you close the show. That day you go, kids get in a big circle because the ghosts are coming. You are gonna feel the spirit of Halloween pass through your body and crank it Don't let go of your sissy and the kids scream and it's the greatest way to close the show. 

10:46
I'm telling you all of this because I learned in that little piece there how to craft an experience. By accident. I had put together a show with a beginning, a middle and an end Isn't that fun? And I and they kept the kids' attention. Kick open the door, go to the next room. The next day I got to go to the principal's office thanks for asking. Uh, and there was a little I. I thought maybe I'd done a pretty good job, so maybe there would be like a certificate, maybe I'd get a classroom marching band. I don't know what was going to happen, but I thought maybe a parade. That was just the. 

11:22
The therapist said that's my narcissism. And so it was a father who was asking some questions. So a dad had asked dr Tarleton, my principal, some questions about her, his daughter and son coming home and asking questions. And she says just ask, steve, that's your principal throwing you under the bus. And and he said am I imagine a dad saying this to your teacher? Am I correct? Understand that you detonated an explosion in a classroom in front of a group of children? He said it just like that. I'm going. Who are you? I'm Gabby's dad. Oh, I love Gabby, third grade Gabby, I love that Detonate is such a strong word. Mr McPherson, I know I'm fired so I'm not going to even look at Dr Tarleton over here. 

12:05
He said we heard about a pumpkin that barfed and changed the color of the carpet. That's about when I felt the sweat starting to build up, just right here. We heard about the fire. We heard the gummy bear was on fire. I go. I told those kids not to say anything about the fire. He said there are many other things. He asked but he said did you put the kids in a circle and have them hold hands and then put electricity through their body and yelled at them don't let go, or you're a sissy. 

12:32 - Dr Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
It's so bad when you say it that way. 

12:34 - Steve Spangler (Guest)
I know, you know the nice thing about when you pass out and you're sitting down, you just go night-night and then when you wake up, hr is standing there and they have you put your stuff in a box. And when you wake up, hr is standing there and they have you put your stuff in a box. It didn't happen. Dr Charlton shoots us across the bow. She goes Chuck, tell the kid why you're here. I'm like Chuck what he says. I know everything you said. I know everything you did. Last night was the first night we didn't have to ask our children what did you do in school today? Last night was Halloween. Those kids want out to trick or treat as fast as they can, not last night. He said Gabby, little Gabby, third grade Little Gabby started her monologue before we even set the table. Mac and cheese that night and hot dogs. Kids love that. She just kept going, kept going. We ate the dinner and she just kept performing and her brother kept going. 

13:24
Yep that's true yep, that's true, the very end she goes. So, mom and dad, he says that we knew she was done when she goes. So, mom and dad, if you want to know what we did in school today, that is what we did. Bam, don't you love the bam part I? 

13:36 - Dr Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
love it like that, um. 

13:40 - Steve Spangler (Guest)
And he says honey, uh, there's so many things. What did you think about that? Without hesitation, he said. She looked into my eye and said Today, daddy, was the best day ever. See, I'd never heard that as a brand new teacher. But you internalize that a little too heavily and you go best day, best day. And then I hit the principal best day ever, dr. Did you hear that best day ever? And she's Charles. Did you hear that Best day ever? And she's so calm and cool. She's just like oh, settle down, Sparky, it's a marathon, not a sprint. Listen more than you talk. He said Gabby, did you tell Mr Spangler, best day ever? She goes. I didn't have to, I just gave him a hug. He knows, Is that funny? Is that you realize that when you connect and you engage through a shared experience, a kid rewards you with three amazing words called best day ever. 

14:36
See, I thought that that's the name of the book because Mr McPherson looked into my eyes and said you have my daughter's undivided attention. She would do anything for you in this moment in time, Do something with it. And I think that's how the engagement effect was born. Is that? I thought, hmm, that's a challenge, See, we work so hard to do our activities, to come up with all the cool things, all the demonstrations, all the videos, whatever it is, but at the end of the day, our job is to help a child find his or her spark. And once they find their spark, we gotta put them in front of somebody who will help champion the cause. And not everybody loves science. I explain it like a plate spinner. You got all these plates going all of a sudden. You can't spin them all at the same time. Something's gonna wobble and guess what? Some kids don't resonate with the experience you've helped to create, right. So part of that is realizing that it's their experience. 

15:33
And, as dr Charlton walked me out that day, she goes what did we learn? And I said I'm not gonna do the pumpkin thing, I'm so sorry. And she was we didn't learn that. Think like a teacher what did? And I go, I'm gonna put the protective. And she goes no, and I was so frustrated I go, I don't know. And she said what we learned today was, if it gets to the dinner table, you win. If what you did to that day was more than an activity. Activities are transactional. Do an activity, kids pay attention. If you don't pay attention, you don't get the activity. It's like a reward kind of thing. She said. If what you did that day was transformational, that means that you created an experience and that's truly a teacher's superpower. It changes the way a child can see, feel, think and react. So, Diane, that's kind of where the whole thing kind of came about and I thought that that was the end. But I promise this is the end. 

16:30
I saw Gabby two weeks later, two weeks in the middle of November, long past the Halloween thing, and I was going to teach the kids how to whip the tablecloth off because wouldn't that be great for Thanksgiving Hair kids. And just after mom and dad say grace, you just go and you whip the tablecloth off. There are many things I did that were very, very bad early on. And I saw a little Gabby. I kick open the door and I saw a little Gabby and she, her eyes, look at me and I look at her. I look at Mr Mrs Ridgely and I just said Can I just talk to her for just a second? And went over to her quietly and I said Gabby, I saw your dad a couple weeks ago and she goes, I know, and I said you told him about the fire. And she goes. I know. And I said you said the nicest words in the world. You said best day ever. 

17:17
What was the best day ever? Part? See, what I was trying to do is to get her to tell me what was good and what she didn't like, and I'll just do more of those things and less of those things. That's how I'm going to be a better teacher. And she said the gummy bears I go. Can we just forget about the gummy bears? She goes, and the marshmallows and the toothpicks. And I went honey, we didn't do anything with marshmallows and toothpicks. And she goes. Oh, I know, but when you left, Miss Ridgely, she had marshmallows and toothpicks and in the afternoon we get to push them together and we get to build things on our desk. I said, out of everything you saw that day, all the things you saw, marshmallows and toothpicks are best day ever. And she goes uh-huh. 

17:57
And I realized at that moment in time it wasn't about me, right? I thought I had to do it, I thought I was. The teacher has to bring it in, bring in the cart, bring all the materials. Kids clap, whatever it is, it was me, me, me. And I realized at that moment in time that great educators are. We right? We, we do this together. We cultivate these experiences. 

18:22
I realized the most important thing, Diane, is the title of that book Cultivating Experiences, not creating. Because that's what we do we cultivate. And the hardest lesson in the entire book is it doesn't matter if you're a teacher, you're a manager, you're a parent. Once you've cultivated something and you feel like there's a connection, you have to stand back. And when you stand back and you allow them to connect, they make it their own. That was her experience, not my experience. So that's why we say the engagement effect is a feeling. It is, but it's far more than a feeling, because that little kid took it to the next level. And that's what we have to do is to be cognizant of the fact that we allow them to take it to the next level. And that's what we have to do is to be cognizant of the fact that we allow them to take it to the next level and to do their own thing with it. 

19:11 - Dr Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
So it sounds like we use the engagement effect as a way of basically setting invitations, creating invitations for children to engage and then to make it their own. Am I getting that? 

19:25 - Steve Spangler (Guest)
correct you are, and every kid won't engage when you cultivate an experience. Not every kid likes what you're doing and you have to be okay with that. Let's take it from a business standpoint. Not every customer is going to be a raving fan of what you do, what you have. You have people who love your podcast. They may not watch every episode. You might be like why did they disengage? No, no, they're connecting at that point where they need a connection. 

19:54
A great speaker by the name of Anton Gunn said that everybody needs three things. They need number one to know that you care. So do you care? Can you help me and can I trust you? And if you get those three things, they're pivotal when it comes to engagement, because that's what they're asking, kind of quietly in their mind Do you care about me? Can you help me in some way? What does that mean? What does it look like when a child Maybe, when I'm interested in something that they help find more of those great opportunities and those experiences? If I had been a great teacher back then, I would have seen that Gabby had connected and meant Gabby, do you know that there's a career waiting for you? 

20:32
We haven't even invented it yet. We call it science now, but down the road we're gonna call it stem, steam stream school, I don't know what we're gonna call it along the way, but you have to realize that there is something there and if you like that Kind of that, you've like what you just saw. There are more things you've got to take every science class you can ever imagine. You gotta learn to be a great writer. You gotta be a good communicator. You got to collaborate with people. You have to love to wonder and discover and explore. So that's what we're doing, diane. In short, we're trying to look at Engagement through all the stories that are in the book and all the examples in the book, and there's some pretty empirical stuff that's in there as well, some kind of heady engagement stuff as well, because I realized it wasn't just teachers, people who are smarter than I am said. 

21:15
But this isn't just engagement in the classroom. This isn't. This is engagement with products. This is engagement when you take a look at customers that are just so excited about something that they lean in, just like a child leans in, they lean in. And you have to be willing, if you're in a business anyway, to experiment and if you're hosting a podcast, to experiment with format, to experiment with style, to watch what people are doing, watch how they're engaging your content and then when they connect and you can tell when they connect, when they connect and they're posting comments, they're engaging as a customer, our child is super excited. Then you respond to that and change what you're doing accordingly. When you do that, you start to master this thing called the engagement effect. 

22:02 - Dr Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
And how do we help people take it to that next level? You know you've created an experience, you've got people

22:28 - Steve Spangler (Guest)
I think what you have to do is you have to get feedback from them. So when you connect two things, connection is a two-way street and I get a little example that I'll show you. But engagement is a two-way street. You cannot just constantly push stuff out, push stuff out, push stuff out, push stuff out, because sometimes your customers don't like that. I think of the example when I was a kid, coca-cola came out with a new product called new coke. 

22:53
The new coke people hated that we didn't even have a social media back then. They hated new coke, right, they hated. Take the latest example of this cracker barrel thing. People just didn't like the fact that you were possibly messing with a memory. You know, what I thought about when I heard the cracker barrel thing is that that's a place where families would go, and maybe you went with your grandparents and there are so many people in that restaurant that you had to wait in the general store and you'd walk around. If you're really good, maybe you got to buy something along the way, maybe a special piece of candy. Who doesn't need a KitKat bar the size of a football? Whatever it is. That that has nothing to do. I don't care about the logo or anything else. I think people leaned in on that, partly because they're going. That's something that was special to me. I hope you're not gonna make all that disappear and just make it generic like every other restaurant that's out there. Who would have ever thought that they would engage? But guess what? They listened and they went back. Whatever reason, they went back, and so, to answer your question, I think one of the things we have to do is we have to listen. We have to wait for that feedback, and what we Think we're pushing out isn't necessarily a connector. In your workshops you do this so well and you've taken this to the next level, but we'll show people what we've played with. 

24:09
Years ago, I invented this toy that's right here. It's called an energy stick, and so here's a little energy stick here that you can kind of see. It's a piece of plastic that's here, like this, and in the piece of plastic there's a battery sitting down here and there's LED wires and there's a piece of metal here and a piece of metal here. And if you could take a piece of metal and you could connect this to this, you could build a connection or a bridge. I gotta have something here. Oh, here, this will do it. So hold on a second. A spoon will do it here. Watch this. So here's this metal spoon, so watch this. If I put this here and here, here how it goes off, you can kind of see it along the way. Now this is. This is if I put this here and here, hear how it goes off. You can kind of see it along the way. Now, this is granite. So this is not a connector. So it does not go off my sleeves, not a connector right, but if I put my finger here, oh, you heard it in here. 

24:54
Well, listen, it's working. Your body is a human conductor of electricity. So I love to do this with teachers. I love to hold onto it and go, go. Okay, you ready to connect? Let's see if we're connected. I'll do it with kids. 

25:07
You ready to connect? Three, two, one and the other person holds on to it. Nothing happens. You're like what's going on? Nothing happens until they realize and they reach out their hand and they initiate the connection. And when you reach out and you touch and it goes off, you realize it's a loop, it's a feedback loop. I have to have that feedback along the way. And then, once you connect, you're like you push it to the next degree. You go let's put in two people, let's put in ten people, let's put in a Guinness World Record of sixteen hundred people. Along the way, put your finger in water. Another push in there. Do you see what I mean? 

25:42
Once you see them engage and connect, the hardest thing in the world is for a teacher to let go and to stand back and just watch it happen. You've cultivated the engagement. Now let it brew. It's like it's in a petri dish. You got to give it time to grow. Let that culture grow and it will grow, and it grows into something you can't even imagine what it's going to be on the other end, and that's kind of what's so exciting about it. Something happens there and there are no hard fast rules. 

26:14
We were trying to find a formula. You know the editors from forefront kept on pushing me going. Is there a formula? Business people need a formula. Is there a matrix? Is there foursquare? No, I can't think of anything. And finally we came to the understanding there's nothing that's there, because the engagement effect is truly an experiment. You have to try something and then try it again and then change it a little bit, because guess what human beings change, and so you have to understand how to harness the power of a human connection, and there's a lot of trust that goes into that as well. 

26:48
When a kid connects, they're vulnerable and they'll tell you things and they'll give you information. And as a great teacher, you know why it's so funny about the time that we've all figured out how to do this. As a teacher, it's time to retire and then you got to pass on, so hopefully we start to pay it forward, but I'm hoping. My hope for the book is that people will go oh, did I tell you that I wrote a book called the engagement effect? It's right here. Look at this, it's right, carly was right there. Look at there, it is right there. I love that. Along the way, we thought how in the world do you signify engagement? What does it look like? Does it look like two people connect? You know what, when you're in crowd, you're in an audience and you hold up your phone because you're trying to grab something, connect with a memory that you want to take and you want to show somebody else. That's how the whole process kind of works. 

27:38 - Dr Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
Pretty fun. That's amazing. I love that. You know it's funny. I was using the energy stick earlier this week. I was working with kids club as part of a grant and yeah, it was fascinating because I worked with different grades and different levels and we were using it as a way to talk about ways in building friendship that you are a conductor for friendship in ways that maybe you're putting up barriers or you're an insulator in creating a friendship. 

28:04 - Steve Spangler (Guest)
And isn't that true? 

28:05 - Dr Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
And it was an amazing connection. But it started with play and it started with the energy stick and letting them discover organically how it worked. Because I usually go in and I learned from you, I play dumb and pretend I don't know how it happened and generally I tell them. My friend, steve Spangler, sent me a bunch of these and I haven't had a chance to play with them yet. Do you think you guys can help me figure out what they're for? 

28:26 - Steve Spangler (Guest)
I love that. 

28:27 - Dr Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
We go from there. I did have one little guy there this week who goes. I know him. You were in the videos with him. 

28:33 - Steve Spangler (Guest)
He's the coolest, I'm like okay, I need you to maybe be my helper over here. It's so fun, isn't that fun? 

28:41 - Dr Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
He became the cultivator of the experience, and so, by finding a role for him, it grew in a way I hadn't anticipated. 

28:48 - Steve Spangler (Guest)
I love it. You know we talk about in the book we talk about there's a section called feigning ignorance. It's this whole idea of not knowing, because when you know everything, there's no room to connect right. When you're just kind of pushing content out, there's no room to connect right. When you're just kind of pushing content out, there's no room to connect. You know how we started with the Firebook here and so I like that and you know that. Okay, so I've got a little lighter that's in here and so that's how the whole thing works. Well, I can't carry this around On TSA they think that's a bomb, so you can't really. Or on the airplanes and going through. So I've traveled with this for so many years. It's my wallet that does the same thing, and then you open it up and then you get your little allowance right there and so it's the lighter on this side. And the very opening story in the book says if I smell like lighter fluid, this is the reason why for 30 years I wake up in the morning and I take the little thing and I put the lighter fluid that's here and put my allowance over here and you put it in your pocket. You have no idea who you're going to meet that day? No idea at all. 

29:44
I was in Florence recently, alabama, florence, alabama, and I know you thought that I was on a pretty good vacation, wasn't it? It was, it was fun, and when I stay at too many hotels and so it's just second nature, high spangler, do you have anything next to a fire escape? I love a fire escape, and many times I'll go wah to a fire escape, I love a fire escape, and many times I go, wow, so that's fun. And and so I did my little thing and my wife was with me at the time, so Renee was with me lit the whole thing up and I go anything next to a fire escape and she looks at me and she goes I don't know, I'll look, and you could tell she was not happy. 

30:19
I thought, oh, there's somebody who just doesn't know how to engage. Hmm, went over and got a coffee because the room wasn't ready just yet and there's a little, you know how they had those little portable coffee, starbucks, whatever went over and said hey, anything that's extra hot, love it extra hot. And the person I, I don't know, I'll find something. I thought. I looked at my wife after getting the coffee and kind of walking over and gonna go to the room and and I said, hmm, kind of weird here in Florence. And she looked at me and she goes no, you just didn't give. 

30:48 - Dr Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
And I was going through the routine. 

30:50 - Steve Spangler (Guest)
I was going through the routine. I have done this thousands of times. She goes, pause, let them connect, and she was absolutely correct. After doing this so many times, I light the thing on fire. I got to do whatever it is do and pause and allow a person to connect. When you do that, because they'll go. Hey, your wallet's on fire and you go. I know it keeps doing it. Weirdest thing, how's your day going? See, it's that all it is is. It's just this open for this connect. The engagement is a weird thing and I'm telling you I'm learning more and more of it as time goes on and and hopefully I get better at it along the way, but really hoping that some of the stories will resonate with people in the book and they go. 

31:32 - Dr Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
oh, I never, ever thought of it that way so that's kind of what I like the fact that you're also emphasizing the idea of not needing to know everything, because I think that can be a huge barrier to engagement um, not for teachers and educators, but I think for business leaders as well. You feel like you have to know, you have to hold the knowledge, and I found for me at least, I became a better teacher when I was able to use what I call my magic words of let's find out together. Yeah, when you can say that and you can be vulnerable and admit you don't know everything, it becomes so much more fun to find out. 

32:10 - Steve Spangler (Guest)
Yeah, I had a

32:12
. You know, there was those 27 teachers with me pushing the cart around and a wonderful lady that I tell a story about, Joanne Lycam, and I remember her. She had a technique that she used on me and I didn't realize it was a technique until later on down the road, but she would go. She'd ask me questions how do you think it would be best to present something like this? And I thought to myself, well, I would do this and this. And then, when I finally figured out that she'd been teaching for 29 years and I was brand new, she knew exactly how to do it. She was just giving me a chance to be able to offer something up and I thought isn't that a waste of time? If you already know the answer? Why would you ask? 

32:51
She is masterful at making me feel as if I had something of significance, of value, same things we just talked about. Can you help me? Do you care about me? And and and? Can you support me along the way? Can I trust you? And part of that connection is that trust I love if I'm practicing things along the way my wife's like, could you just go to the store and buy your stupid stuff and stop asking people questions, Because you're in the aisle and you look at somebody who's there and they're looking at all the different kind of salad dressing and I'll go. I don't even know which one to buy. Do you have a favorite salad dressing? I don't have to do that. My wife's just like get the damn Thousand Island, whatever it is, and they'll go. Yeah, I like this Paul Newman thing. And you're like, oh, why do you like that? Well, and then all of a sudden they start to talk. That's feign ignorance. 

33:45
I have no tattoos.

33:46 - Dr Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
You and I are friends. We do the same thing. 

33:49 - Steve Spangler (Guest)
I have no tattoos, not a single tattoo on my body. Fascinated by tattoos, more fascinated by the people who are wearing the tattoos, I will always ask people about their tattoos. So you get a server. Somebody's like hey, welcome to such and such. Is there anything to drink? Yeah, I have an iced tea. 

34:04
You've been working on your sleeve a lot. You've added more since the last time I saw you. I'm totally feigning ignorance. And she's like you're right. Which is the last one you added? Oh, it's the heart thing. Why'd you do the heart? And all of a sudden they start to tell you and you just listen and you realize you're building a connection. 

34:24
Now some people can be critical and go aren't you just messing with people? It's not messing with people at all. It's saying I care more about the person than I do the thing right and I'm just learning how to connect with people because if you can find a common ground for connection, you can encourage them to engage through, possibly, an experience you both get to share at the same time, that those are things that people never forget. So that's, it's kind of fun and it's a silly little technique. But you know what, in a time when you're researching engagement and when we were researching stuff that's out there Diane, most of the stuff that's out there right now are these research studies in the corporate place or in the in the workplace about what can you do to get employees to work harder, produce better results for less money, make them feel like they're part it's like feel like not actually feel that they are a part of it. And so we had to look at it and say here's everything that's out there and we actually share it in a chapter of the book going. But that's not at all what we're talking about. That's not what this is. So that's why you're going to see some stories that are in the book that are kind of filled with emotion and some stories that come from practical experiences. But then put the other hat on that I don't get to put on very often and get to kind of share the business side of it, because we did own Steve Spangler Science and that company called Be Amazing Toys and Spangler Science Club, the subscription club, for many, many years. 

35:47
And so talk a little bit about those 45 employees that were with us and the overseas factories and what did that look like in the workplace, and look at it that way. And then we pulled the curtain back on social media. You know you're nice enough to go. Four and a half billion views. There are corporations out there that want to go. How can a nerdy science guy get that many views? I mean, a holy moly. How do you really get that many views? Because you're not attractive, you have not a lot that's going for you on screen. How do you get people to watch those videos and what does that look like? And so we pulled the curtain back on what that looks like and what engagement looks like in terms of social media and some experiments that we tried in some pretty cool empirical data as well. A little bit of a little bit of something hopefully for everyone. 

36:30 - Dr Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
This book is a little bit of a I don't want to use the word magna opus, but it sounds like it's sort of a culminating book of what you've learned so far, in sort of sharing across the spectrum of the many lessons and the many aspects of your life, something that they can take away from and that thread that connects it all you're absolutely right. 

36:54 - Steve Spangler (Guest)
And the part that I wasn't going to talk about. And it wasn't until sitting down and doing lots of talking and throwing stuff out, and one of the editors was in town, uh, a guy by the name of zach grisham, and kind of helped write and kind of cultivate some of the stories that are there, and uh, he saw that in the in the basement we have a secret room and the secret room is where I have all my magic tricks. I grew up in a family of professional magicians. My dad ran a magic school and so he started going like what's this? And so we do a little magic trick and he go what's this? I do a magic trick and he goes tell me more about the magic. And so, as I started telling him about growing up in a family of magicians, I could see that this whole thing changed. And he goes finally, none of this made sense. I didn't know how you got to this point. You didn't just discover this. He says you were taught this engagement thing. It all started with you growing up in a family of magicians and doing your little magic tricks or whatever. You know. 

37:51
We tell a story in the book there was a news station in town and we always you know I grew up in a time when you know, you sat down and and there's a five o'clock news and mom and dad always watch the five o'clock news and there's ten o'clock news. You could watch at night and morning stuff, and along the way there's a station here in town, 9 News, the number 9 News, and there was a reporter and 9 is big deal and they had an action cam, they had a van that would go around with a satellite thing in the 70s and they're live and it was amazing. There was an anchor by the name of Ward Lucas and he's like a network anchor and that's pretty cool. And I remember walking home from school one day and looking down the street and that's pretty cool, you know. And I remember walking home from school one day and looking down the street and there's a van down the street and looking and as they get closer it's parked pretty close to the house and as they get closer it's parked in front of the house. Only two things could be they're taking the dad to jail and and now we need to get see or for some reason, 9 News is at my house and I walked in that door and there he was. 

38:54
Ward Lucas was standing in my living room with my dad and dad says to me the first words out of his mouth Steven, go get the handcuffs. Which is not something that people normally will say, but I knew exactly what he was doing because my dad ran a magic school. I didn't know why Ward Lucas was there, but my dad ran a magic school and he taught escapes. Every magician's got to learn how to pick a lock, how to get out of a you know rope that gets tied around it, and you have to learn how to pick handcuffs. You actually shim them. And so he goes go get your handcuffs. I mean alright. 

39:26
So I went and got the handcuffs and as they went and got the handcuffs, I I had taken the bobby pin, because that's how you shim them thinking I wonder if he's gonna have me do the trick. Put it in my back pocket. So I brought the handcuffs out and he handed them to Ward Lucas and he goes this is regular standard issue, peerless or Smith and Wesson or whatever it was. He goes put them on the kid, cuff the kid and Ward Lucas goes turn around, steven. So I turned around and put my hands behind my back and he cuffed me. And then I turned back around again and as my dad talked toward, my dad looked at me and went like this, like do it. And so I reached in, got the Bobby pin, not knowing, and worked and then about I don't know a minute later he goes Steven, is there anything you'd like to show Mr Lucas and I go, here's the handcuffs. And you could see his face turn white like a ghost. He's like how'd you do that? And I couldn't slip out of it. I mean, how'd you do that? And my dad, for the first time ever, looked at me and goes you can show him how to do it. He's gonna be a magician someday. Ward Lucas is gonna come to the magic school. 

40:28
Well, what Ward was doing was an entire investigative series on ripoff, ripoff scams, swindles, and he was looking for a way to connect with the Denver Police Department. He thought if I could show the Denver Police Department that a eight-year-old kid could get out of their handcuffs. So for the next six months he paraded Denver police through my dad's magic school and he would bring him in. And Ward Lucas was the guy. Now he'd go. He'd say to the officers take your cuffs out. And they're like why didn't take all the handcuffs? Go, cuff the kid and you can see his police officers going. I'm not cuffing the kid, there's one officer, I'll cuff the kid, turn around. So he turns around, slaps him on me and hits the deadlock. On either side there's a pin on a handcuff key. Well, I knew how to do that because dad taught me how to sweep the lock. And then you shim it and you're out. When I got out of those I thought that guy was speechless and he said to Ward Lucas do you know how many criminals, how many bad people I've had the back of a squad car in those cuffs had no idea that they were that easy to get out of? 

41:32
That's the engagement effect. You see that there was a feeling produced in and I watched my dad do it. I didn't do it, I just got to watch the process. So no wonder the editors went. You got to tell some stories because you watched it firsthand and I watched the effect that it can have on people. It's pretty amazing, but it's something you people. It's pretty amazing, but it's something you practice, it's not something you just pick up along the way. So hopefully some people will look at this and they'll start practicing and maybe someday we'll hear some stories back about how the engagement effect has impacted other teachers and kind of the cool experiences they've cultivated. 

42:07 - Dr Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
So the engagement effect is out this month and you can order it on Amazon, I'm assuming. 

42:15 - Steve Spangler (Guest)
Yep, you can take a look at that. There's the screen right there. So there it is. Look at that, carly. You did such a good job, nice job. Look at that, you can. You can pre-order. I have a feeling they're shipping a little bit early because we got a note from Simon Schuster saying that they're stocking right now. So love to have you see it and we'd love to get your feedback on it. 

42:35
I think that's the scariest thing in the world is you put something out there and then you wonder there's a million books published every year. So how in the world is anybody gonna read your book? But maybe there's a connection along the way and I'm hoping that somebody will thumb through and they're gonna look through the pictures in the middle going what's this all about? What's the fire and all that other kind of stuff that's there. 

42:52
My dad came to school and ate fire when I was a kindergartner. So we get to stand up and say what your mom and dad do, and I was so proud. I said my dad eats fire and cuts my mom into three pieces. And that's what they did in their evening show told my dad. Nobody believes it, dad. They said that you don't eat fire. Well, it's 1972, nobody cares. My dad brought the torches. The next week it's over show-and-tell. He ate fire for the kids. I don't care what your dad does when my dad eats fire. That's pretty awesome. Along the way, is that the weirdest thing? 40th high school reunion to people go, your dad still eat fire and you're like God. How do you remember that after all these years? 

43:38 - Dr Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
It was memorable and it engaged them. Well, steve thank you so much for sharing the engagement effect with us. I'm going to drop all the links in the show notes so people can pre-order the book and for those of you out there who read it, I would love for you to drop a line to me because if you'd like to do an online book club, I would be more than interested in reading with you in November, so that could be a fun way for us to get engaged together. 

44:03 - Steve Spangler (Guest)
So fun. 

44:03 - Dr Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
Thank you for joining us on the Adventures in Learning podcast and we look forward to having you on again soon. 

44:09 - Steve Spangler (Guest)
You're so fun. Thank you so much. Thanks for all that you're doing out there to inspire teachers, thanks for the work that you're doing in museums with children and huge thanks for coming to Colorado every summer and being part of our experience called Science in the Rockies. You're a huge, huge part of it. Teachers fall in love with you. Fairy tale stem. They take it with them forever. The difference that you're making in that multicultural approach, with connecting science and children's literature, is absolutely amazing. So back at you. Thanks for doing all that you do. 

44:37 - Dr Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
Thank you, steve, and I hope that the engagement effect makes such a difference in the lives of teachers and business leaders everywhere. 

44:45 - Steve Spangler (Guest)
Thank you. Otherwise, it's just a really good liner for a bird cage. 

44:48 - Dr Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
Well, let's hope not. 

44:50 - Steve Spangler (Guest)
Okay, got it, thank you.