Books, Belonging, and Conservation — Lessons from South Africa with Ann Dye

In Episode 167 of Adventures in Learning, Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor welcomes Ann Dye, Vice President of Sales Operations at HarperCollins, for a powerful conversation about books, belonging, and conservation.

Ann shares her journey into publishing, how books help children (and adults) slow down in a noisy, screen-filled world, and why matching the right book to the right reader still matters. Diane and Ann also reflect on their life-changing trip to South Africa with the Children’s Book Creators for Conservation, including volunteering at a rhino orphanage, learning from local conservation leaders, and witnessing the power of community-driven change.

This episode explores how reading, empathy, creativity, and service connect us—to each other, to nature, and to hope.

Topics include:

children’s books • literacy • publishing • conservation • empathy • community • play-based learning • hope

📚 Key Takeaways

• Why matching the right book to the right reader can change everything
• How books offer a powerful counterbalance to screens and constant noise
• What conservation really looks like on the ground — and why community matters
• How creativity, play, and service build connection across cultures
• Finding hope through everyday acts of care, kindness, and commitment

🕒 Chapter Titles & Timestamps

Meet Anne Dye: A Life in Publishing

01:01 – Anne’s path into children’s publishing and sales operations

Matching Books to Readers

04:04 – Helping kids (and adults) fall in love with reading

Books vs. the Noise of Modern Life

06:06 – Why reading still matters in a screen-saturated world

Holiday Books & Finding “Just Right” Stories

09:09 – Gift ideas, animals, and beloved children’s books

South Africa: Why This Trip Mattered

12:11 – What drew Anne to conservation work abroad

Volunteering at the Rhino Orphanage

18:17 – Trust, vulnerability, and unforgettable moments with rhinos

Dehorning, Ethics, and Human Responsibility

22:21 – Conservation choices and protecting endangered animals

The Power of Community & the Green Mambas

26:25 – Local leadership, women in conservation, and sustainable change

Art, Play, and Creative Connection

31:30 – What illustrators, murals, and playfulness teach us

Being Present in Extraordinary Moments

34:33 – Wildlife encounters, awe, and putting the camera down

Biodiversity, Humility, and Lifelong Learning

37:36 – Rethinking what we know about the natural world

What Brings Hope

40:39 – Acts of service, everyday goodness, and closing reflections

Transcript

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SPEAKER_01 0:01

Welcome to the Adventures in Learning podcast. Before I went to South Africa, you met many members of the Children's Book Creators for Conservation team. But I have a treat for you. Today, you get to meet another one of them, and we get to talk all about our trip to South Africa. And not only do you get to hear about that, you get to meet one of the most badass women in publishing. Her name is Anne Dye, and I am thrilled to count her as a friend as well as a colleague. Wonder, Curiosity, Connection. Where will your adventures take you? I'm Dr. Diane, and thank you for joining me on today's episode of Adventures in Learning. And welcome to the Adventures in Learning Podcast. Thank you so much for having me and so excited to connect with you again after our big trip. I am so excited to see you. So, and before we start, for those who don't know who you are, because you do so much marketing behind the scenes, you're a vice president at Harper HarperCollins, and you have been responsible for getting books out into the hands of the public and really selling some of my favorite authors of all time. I'm wondering, can you tell us a little bit about how you got into publishing and what you do?

SPEAKER_00 1:21

Sure, absolutely. So, so as you said, I'm currently uh vice president of upstales operations at HarperCollins. Um I started working in publishing about, it's been about 20 years, which is a little hard to believe. I feel like time's not moved that quickly, but it has. And I started on the marketing side. I came into publishing. I always loved books, and I started in children's publishing, and now I do children's and adults. But, you know, I really I've always loved books. I've always been a big reader. I have so many memories, very specific memories of growing up and being a reader. My parents always read to me, my mom did. That was a very big part of my childhood. And so, you know, as I was going through college and sort of thinking about what I wanted to do, I really knew I wanted to have something to do with, you know, working in books and publishing and something in the written form and really getting that out there. That was always really important to me. And I went to the NYU Publishing Institute after college, after I graduated from Cornell, and really just got hooked into the book publishing industry. We had a lot of great speakers, and I just was really inspired to really be a part of that community. I started marketing and I worked at a few different publishing houses, a variety of them over the years. And what started in marketing sort of shifted into marketing, into marketing and operations, into general publishing operations, into sales operations. And I've kind of worked my way through publishing to sort of meld ultimately what I think is my skill set, meets my passion, which is really looking to do everything that I can to make our industry as sort of efficient as possible to get the books out there to readers. Marketing was sort of my beginning set because it was really taking books and taking the great content that our editors were working on with these amazing authors and illustrators and putting them out there in the world. But as my career has gone on, it's shifted into operations, which is really about sort of helping to support all of our teams to get do all the work that they need to do to get our books out there. So I am a very type A person. I'm very organized and I like to keep things very buttoned up. That's sort of, I get excited about that in a way that I think a lot of people maybe don't. It's a it's a skill set that I have. And I get to kind of utilize that sort of superpower, I think, that I have and use it to get books out there in the world. And I have several nieces and nephews who are around the age of discovering books or have a love for reading, a lot of friends who have kids in that arena too. So being able to be a part of an industry that I think is so important and really does so much to just foster love of reading is just such a delight. So it's been a it's been a wonderful, wonderful 20 years, which is again very hard to believe at this point.

SPEAKER_01 3:52

It's been that long. That's amazing. And you know, as you were talking, I was thinking that when I work with librarians and teachers, one of the things we talk about is, you know, matching books to readers, finding that special book that will light a kid up and get them interested in reading. And I know as you work with sales and as you've worked with marketing, how do you find sort of that key to be able to get grown-ups excited about a book as well as the um potential readers?

SPEAKER_00 4:23

I think so much of it is really just tapping into, I think, for whether it's a parent, it's a librarian, it's it's anyone, is really tapping into the value of what it means to get kids excited about something that helps educate and really mold their minds in a way that that creates sort of really positive uh forward-thinking adults. I mean, a lot of what I've seen a lot of times with with doing marketing around books, it's the parents and teachers and librarians are just excited that they are excited about books. I mean, just getting a kid to get a book in their hands is really the win. So for us, when I came from the marketing background, it was really just showcasing, okay, how do we make this? How do we showcase that this is fun to get the kids excited about it? I did, I spent a lot of time working at Disney for Ruth and McGired and series. And it was one of my great joys. I had cousins at the time who were just the right age for The Right Pyramid and the uh Heroes of Olympus series when that was first kicking off. And just watching them, they thought I was a superhero that I worked with this author. And so to have that kind of love that is really fostered through the creativity and really attaching kids to that creativity, then the win with the parents is just the fact that they're excited about it. I I've had so many parents and friends who are just they know their kids are attached to this one book and they want to gobble up as much as they can because just really finding that love is harder and harder for kids because there's so many distractions out there that for parents, it's just what is that thing that really is gonna get that kid excited? And often it's just finding that right author's voice, that right subject matter, and it really hooks them in. And it's really just finding, finding that tidbit for the kid that's really gonna get the parents excited. So it's a it's a lot about just fostering what that particular kid's interest is and how you can show them that the books, a books are a books are a great way to kind of quench that that thirst.

SPEAKER_01 6:12

Well, and you mentioned there's a lot of noise out there and a lot of distractions and competitions for books these days. How do you break through the noise? And like if you were, if you were a parent or a librarian or a teacher who's trying to find that just right book, how do you break through the noise to find that? Like, where would you advise them to go?

SPEAKER_00 6:31

I think a lot of it is really looking at how you can really connect books to community. I think that with kids being so attached to their screens and so also overscheduled, I think it's thinking about how books are an opportunity to separate out from just the overflow of noise and give them a place to slow down and really find an established connection and really allow them to think more deeply than they're able to do in the day-to-day. I think one of the things that I really appreciate with my childhood before there was so much screens and technology is that you really were able to separate out here's my day-to-day and all the things I need to do with this time that I sat down with my parents and read. And so many of my friends who have kids, they really make a point to separate out time and make reading a specific moment to really slow down and really spend quality time together. And I think that there is, you know, there's an importance in looking at reading as an opportunity to really both connect when you're reading together, whether it's a family activity or reading together when your kids are young, or really finding an opportunity to show that this is an opportunity to really just separate and do some kind of self-care and do something that's just for you that's separate and kind of fosters your mental imagination in a different way. I just think that we move so fast now. It's a nice counterbalance to all of those other things that are competing for kids' attention. And I see a lot of times with my friends, it's like the one chance that they have to kind of not be running ragged to do the next thing and to just connect to the next thing. I think the noise oftentimes is where books can the way books can compete against that is just the fact that it's not that same fast-paced place that you were just jumping in and getting lost. It's a way to think more deeply and more thoughtfully than I think you do with the kind of quick movement that a lot of TV shows and other quick forms of entertainment give you that on just kind of scatter your brain and think about anything else.

SPEAKER_01 8:20

I love that. And, you know, one of the things I'm going to be offering my audience in 2026 is the opportunity to subscribe to a free calendar. And there will be a picture book a day offered to help build connection, empathy, and engagement. And you can purchase the books, you can get them from the library, but they're all books that are out there that hopefully will touch on the idea of engagement and empathy from a wide range of avenues, whether it's through school stories, environmental stories, stories about animals, but just trying to get some of these books out and help parents and librarians connect to them.

SPEAKER_00 9:02

And there's so much to that, I think. I think that even just those core concepts, like you said, of kindness and empathy. I think it's something that I think we take for granted and something that kids are gonna have that sort of access to learning those skills. I just think that, again, with how fast-paced everything is, you don't really have those opportunities to showcase that in a way that is very sort of thoughtful in a way that's that is gonna really resonate. And I think that books have the power to do that in such a nice way that allow kids to sort of reflect and see themselves in a way that's very natural and organic. And so I think again, it's like fostering that community and that sense of really focusing on utilizing reading time as a really a family activity, as a as a self-care activity for kids to have for themselves. It's just something that I think I, at least as an adult, I certainly see it as my time when I get to read and spend time that is really for me. It's uh that I don't have in my overscheduled, overscheduled life, which kids have all the more now than they ever have had before.

SPEAKER_01 10:00

And we're coming up on the holidays. So I'm gonna ask you a fun question and put you a little bit on the spot. You have nieces and nephews, and you've got friends with kids. What would be on your Christmas wish list or your holiday wish list to get for kids this year?

SPEAKER_00 10:15

I mean, I'm gonna, I'm gonna tout a friend of mine who I was just messaging with who was on our trip, which is Haley, Haley and Rocco, and they have their I Am Aloris book, which I I had noted to you, one of my one of my nephews loves all things animals, and he's very excited about animals. So anything that I can find that sort of sort of uh helps foster that that love for animals is always a great thing. Um, I think I'd shared the story with you all that one of the things we did when we were in on our trip to South Africa is we saw dung beetles. And my my brother had said, please get a video of dung beetle. Like he really wants to see it, and he thought it was hilarious. So I when we when I was seeing Haley and John's book, we were on a trip together. I was like, I need to get, again, want to expose more animals. And the Loris was one that I feel like he would be very excited about. It's one of there's not a lot of books out there for that. So that's one that I I definitely want to get. And then to tell a little bit of my own company because I have to a little bit, is there's a new food group book. And uh it's the humble, the humble pies that just came out, which is if you've ever read any of the the big cheese or the sour grape and the the bad seed, that entire series. Yeah. So I'm gonna get the newest book for my for my uh nieces and nephews.

SPEAKER_01 11:24

Oh, that sounds amazing. Imagine a space where curiosity drives innovation, where empathy fuels collaboration, and where learning feels less like a task and more like an adventure. My message isn't about adding more to your plate, it's about changing how you see the plate entirely. I'm Dr. Diane Jackson Schnorr, and through the power of purposeful play, I equip leaders, educators, and organizations with the tools you need to unlock creative problem solving, deepen human connection, and build resistant ecosystems of empathy and innovation. Attendees will walk away not just inspired but empowered, with immediately usable strategies to spark curiosity in teams, to lead with empathy, and to infuse learning into their everyday cultures. You'll learn how play isn't child's work, it's the secret weapon of the world's most effective leaders and change makers. This is not a feel-good talk that fades by Monday morning, it's a movement. A shift in how we engage people, solve problems, and lead meaningful change. My talks and workshops are shaped by decades of experience in education and a transformative message that connects across sectors. Whether your audience is corporate, educational, or nonprofit, they'll leave ready to rethink what's possible, both personally and professionally. Because when we learn and lead through play, we don't just change organizations, we change the world. Check it out at drdianeadventures.com. Welcome back to the Adventures and Learning Podcast. We're here with Anne Dye, and I'm so thrilled to have her with us. We're gonna turn our attention to South Africa. So, Anne, you and I both were on the trip with CBCC. What brought you to that trip? What was the thing that drew you to want to go over to South Africa?

SPEAKER_00 13:25

So, for me, ever since I was I was little, I have been obsessed with the animals. I talked about them all day long. I had a whole collection of stuffed animals when I was a kid of every type. We would go to the zoo, we go to anywhere where there were animals, and I always wanted to just spend all of my time with the animals. That is, I am the animal person in my family. And ever since I was in uh starting in high school, I started volunteering every single Saturday at my local animal shelter. And I did, I've done that even to this day. I've been doing that for 20 years. And, you know, I'm an animal person. I I love and I care very, very much about protecting and supporting animals, whether it be wildlife or or local animals. I have two rescue cats of my own who I love very, very much and talk about. And that's like half of my camera role is photographs and videos of them. And so for me, it was a long time sort of bucket lace item for me to want to go to South Africa. I've always wanted to not just see all of the amazing animals and wildlife that was in South Africa, but really feel like I could see and witness them in a way that felt like it was also providing some positive impact. Oftentimes I feel, you know, a little bit, admittedly, helpless that I don't feel like I can, I'm doing enough and I can't do enough to sort of combat all of the things we see in the news every day, which we need climate change and various challenges with regulations and just what we can do to advocate for those who can't always advocate for themselves. And so, you know, in my long-term friendship that I've had with Haley Rocco, she and I used to work together when we were both working at Houghton Limit Hercourt. She had flagged for me a few years ago that she was going on this trip to South Africa. And she thought it, she was, in fact, she had emailed me saying, I'm here right now in South Africa. You would love it here. And we hadn't talked in a while. And I was like, it was just this amazing moment of fate. And I thought about it literally the week before the applications opened. I thought about that email. I think I was having one of those days where I just was like, Oh, I feel like I'm kind of in my own head too much. And I want to do something and I wanna, I wanna feel like I'm doing something outside of my day-to-day, where admittedly, I think I can get sometimes bogged down. And I pulled up that email and I looked at it and I reached out to her and I said, Do you know if there's any trips being planned? She's like, We're about to open up applications for this trip. You should apply. And it just was the perfect timing. And I did. And when I found out that I was, I was going to be going on the trip, I was just so delighted. And I felt like I was pinching myself constantly about the fact that I got to go. Yes. It was just, I was like, I can't believe it. And it still felt so surreal when we were there. But I think what was so amazing about it, even just in planning to go, was the fact that I loved that I would get to experience it, but in a way that was, I think, gonna also create a way of giving back and doing some positive impact and not just going to see these animals, but to do something that was hopefully providing some positive contribution. And it was just an amazing trip. So, so something I always wanted to do. And I just feel like I was able to really make it into a really a life-changing experience.

SPEAKER_01 16:26

Agreed. And you know, it was one of those things where I hadn't expected, on top of the benefit of getting to go and you know, the pinch me aspect of that and feeling like you're making a difference, sort of these friendships that emerged as well, because I feel like you all are going to be family for the rest of my life. It's one of those, it's a shared experience and it bonds you in ways that are hard to describe. And it does.

SPEAKER_00 16:54

It really does. I think, you know, and I'm someone who's, you know, an admitted introvert. And so I remember going and being so excited, but I was like, am I gonna get overloaded? What if, what if, you know, this is something where we just don't have the same experience? You never know. You know, we're going out and and I knew even in the early exchanges that we had, I was like, this is gonna be such a great group of individuals. Like I just knew everyone was so just badass and also just really smart. And even that the the we developed this rapport before we even left as a group. And I just was like, I know this is gonna be good, but you still had this nervousness where you're like, oh, are we all gonna click and is it gonna? And I tell you, it really was just magical. And there were just moments on that trip where even in the smallest moments, where we were, you know, sharing a story over dinner, talking about a shared experience, seeing something on a game drive together, experiencing what we did at the at the rhino orphanage. We were there in this collective experience together. I really just felt like, you know, I was bonded to this group for life. And there is something about experiencing a trip like that with people that just had the same sort of, I think, just desire to really do good and to feel like they're contributing and the same kind of shared kind of vision and goals, and just are just a bunch of cool people. And it was, I truly do feel like we we made lifelong family friendships out of that. And we're still connecting apps. And it's just, it brings a smile to my face every day when I see another, another exchange in the group, in the group chat. Agreed.

SPEAKER_01 18:23

Every time the WhatsApp lights up, it just makes me smile. It's like, oh, I want to see your kittens, or I want to know what your story is doing. And it definitely feels so connected. So let's talk a little bit about some of the experiences. Um, you mentioned the Rhino orphanage. Shall we start there, or is there something else that was you?

SPEAKER_00 18:43

I would love to start there. That's the number one thing I share every time someone tells me about the trip. And I I share all of I share that story because it was just so special and so amazing.

SPEAKER_01 18:53

So, for those who don't know, one of the things that we got to do while we were there is we went and volunteered at a Rhino orphanage, and the location has to be kept top secret because they've had issues with poachers and they've had people literally be physically threatened and abused because the poaching industry is so dangerous. And so the people who work there are they're heroes. They're young heroes who are looking out for these endangered species and really protecting young rhinos who have lost their families. And I'm gonna throw it over to Ann from there to talk a little bit about what we did after that.

SPEAKER_00 19:33

Yeah, so it was it was exactly as as as you said, Diane. It was something that, you know, I had this idea in my mind, knowing that we were, this is the number one thing I knew that we were gonna do before we left, that we were gonna get to go to this orphanage. And I kind of had a visual in my mind of what it was gonna be like. I was like, oh, we're gonna get to see and maybe see from a distance and get to have this interaction with these rhinos. And it was so much more than that. We we had, you know, the amazing team that that volunteers and the team that works there were just so incredible. And they brought us right there on the ground floor to interact with these amazing, these amazing animals. And, you know, we got to feed them, we got to prepare bottles for them. And then we got to also feed them pellets. And so we were literally right up next to these animals and getting to hand feed them. And the thing that I remember so vividly to this day is that at one point you have the pellets in your hands and you're hand feeding these rhinos and they're closing their mouths around your hands. And there is this, and I it's hard to even explain, there was like this perfect amount of pressure they're putting on that shows this kind of trust that these animals have, that they were like, we're here to help and we're here for you. And they could, I think I'm sure they could crush my hand if they wanted to, and they didn't, and they were very trusting. And that kind of bond, especially when you know the history and the fact that these animals come here because they're they're poachers and there's you know the unfortunate circumstances that bring them to this environment, but they're so cared for, and there is this bond of just doing this partnership with these amazing creatures to care for them that I think just like removes you to tears. It was just, it was amazing. And I do want to share the story that we have of our friend Meg, who had come as part of the uh of the CBC trip previously in 2023, had been there to, and I'm gonna miss, I'm gonna mess up the name. It was Melon, the rhino that she had seen who had come in uh back in 2023 and had, you know, had seen her mother, that this rhino had seen her mother pass away in front of her. And she had lost an ear, unfortunately, due to a poacher attacking her. And Meg had seen this rhino as a baby two years ago. And at that point, she wasn't eating, she was disengaged, and got to see her two years later. And she had her whole little like found family of other rhinos. She was thriving, she was doing well. And just seeing Meg's reaction to that like brought me to tears. Cause you get to see, like, from something that is so horrifying and terrible, comes this ability for these animals. To just be so resilient and what it means for us to do our part because we as humans are responsible for why this animal is in this situation and to then be able to at least do some small part to help make up for that and to try to give this animal a chance and to see her thriving and doing well. It is just, it's an incredible light at the end of what could be a very uh dark and sad story. So that was just really powerful to be a part of that.

SPEAKER_01 22:26

It really was. You know, and as you were talking, it was reminding me of something that Kevin, the reserve manager, had said to us when we were out on a drive that they don't intervene when it's something that nature has done and it would happen normally in nature. But if humans have done it, then it is up to us as humans to undo it and to fix it. And that's sort of the guiding principle that he uses as he's managing the reserve at Wild Tomorrow and you know, looking after all of the various animals who live and interact on that space.

SPEAKER_00 23:01

And there's so much to that, and I and I and that has stuck with me a lot because I do, I think that shows such a profound respect for nature and also our role and how important it is to play our part. And I I thought about that a lot, also related to the other big experience that sticks out in my mind that we had, which was taking part in a rhino to warning procedure, which, if you're not familiar with that, is a process that that that these some of these groups will do in partnership with the veterinarian tied to donations. It's not an inexpensive procedure, but it is a proactive procedure, does not hurt the rhinos at all to remove their horns in order to make them less appealing for poachers and to do a protective measure. And you think about things like that, it is so unfortunate that we have to do that. I know they're looking at other technologies and other ways to maybe avoid this part, but but it is a necessary thing because we cause the problem. So knowing that because human beings are responsible for this piece, it is so important that we look for solutions and an ability to do what we can to protect these animals from what is, you know, human-inflicted pain. And to watch these incredible individuals who do this and watching this veterinarian who he was speaking through like how much they've had to work through perfecting the right, you know, anesthetic and everything that they're using specifically for this animal and how much care they put into it is pretty remarkable to see because we are, you know, when we're responsible. I do think it's our job to be responsible for helping to come up with solutions for for these sorts of problems. And I love that wild tomorrow was so incredible this entire trip is part of these solutions. Um and we get to we get to help in a small way.

SPEAKER_01 24:34

Absolutely. You know, and as you were talking about the dehorning, it reminded me, you know, we were able to briefly hold the stub of the horn before it gets locked up because you're not allowed to take it. Like it, it's all accounted for with the government to make sure that it's not being poached and otherwise used. But I remember holding it in my hand and looking at it and thinking, that is literally a fingernail. You know, it's it's a giant fingernail, but it's made of the same material that our fingernails are made of. And that caught me in ways I wasn't expecting in terms of, you know, thinking about poaching and why, you know, destroying an entire animal to get at a fingernail, you know, and the things that we have to do to protect them, you know, and there was that beautiful moment for me at least, where I got to assist for a moment in that procedure and was rubbing lotion on the stump afterwards. And, you know, the rhino is still groggy. And I just had this moment of feeling incredibly connected to her and hoping that this would serve as a deterrent so that poachers didn't come after her on the preserves, you know, and then that takes you into knowing that that's an issue, all the complications around poaching, you know, the poverty and the desperation that can lead to it, the big crime syndicates and Western and, you know, Western culture and eastern culture that both want this product, but then also the people who are working every day to try to stop it. You know, we met the Rangers who were out a patrol every day. We met the people with the canine units who protect the rhinos and not just the rhinos, but the other animals on the preserve on the reserves as well. And it, I realized it really does take an entire community and it takes coordinated efforts to give us a wild tomorrow.

SPEAKER_00 26:35

It really does. And it really takes, it's it's such an inspiring combination of like skill sets and individuals who have different abilities to really come together and do all of that. And it also, I think it was so interesting. We were learning also about how to how they were all connecting to just the local communities and how important it is to also just be mindful and respectful of how these organizations work locally to really make sure they have the support of local communities, that they're working and being respectful of how these various communities work, because it's it's not as simple as I think was probably a previous understanding of well, we could just come in and fix it. And that is a very, I think, Western culture appropriate way to look at things. And that's just not how you create sustainable change. It's really about being respectful and mindful of how to enter into the space and create and develop a sustainable environment. And so much of what was inspiring about Wild Tomorrow was also in what they were doing to support the local crushes and the local schools and community centers and just doing work to help support the, the, the amazing local women, the green mambas, who who were just so badass. It's this group of all women who will work with Wild Tomorrow and specifically work on the land and work on conservation and to try to provide them with support and just it's a lot about community and really just figuring out sustainable long-term ways to support the animals and also support the local community.

SPEAKER_01 27:53

Yeah, I thought I was strong and then weeding alongside of them, I realized, yeah, you're nowhere near as cool as you thought you were.

SPEAKER_00 28:03

We have a photo, and I was, I always I go back and look at it of it's me walking along with one of the green mambas, and it's me like bent over with trying to pull it. And I just remember so vividly that moment. I was like, I do like stray training multiple times a week, and I'm like, I couldn't pull up that weed the way that I could. And she, they just come in and they pull it and it's no sweat, no problem. And I was like, it was a very good humbling experience. And I was like, yeah, there these women are impressive and things that I could never do.

SPEAKER_01 28:30

You know, and across the community. I mean, the green mambas were amazing, but so were the folks who ran the crushes and who are growing the community gardens and figuring out how do we feed, you know, how do we build these ways to give kids a positive future. And I just I appreciated getting a chance to to see a little bit of community as well. And I know that we only scratched the surface and that there's so much more and it's so much deeper than what we saw, but it gave me great respect for the power of community because I think that's some of the answers to our problems here in the United States as well, is really nurturing our own communities and figuring out how do we build that mutual aid and that mutual support.

SPEAKER_00 29:17

Oh, absolutely. And that was something that came up a lot in conversations that we were having, even with each other, about community. And I think I've had a lot of conversations with friends about it. It's it's become harder and harder, I think, to foster community. We are so just naturally siloed, just the way that the world is and the way that it is between technology, between our schedules, between just the various things happening in the world. Being siloed is kind of the new natural way things fall if you don't really take a conscientious effort to reach out to your community. And I think it was something that was so, so res with me and continues to, and that takes so many forms. It's thinking about what kind of local volunteer work that you can do? What are local ways you can get involved in your community? How do you reach out to your neighbors who are around you? Are there friends that you haven't reached out to for a while? What does that mean to kind of reestablish those connections? I think those are things that we, at least I think always had taken for granted that it's harder now to foster. And it's so important. And I think that sustainable change really only works if you are connected locally and you are supportive and aware on each other. And I think that's something that again, talking about our amazing group, I think we fostered something very special there that was so inspiring to me. And I just think it just reiterated to me the value of those connections, no matter where you are.

SPEAKER_01 30:32

Well, and I had a chance when we came back from South Africa. We had just moved to New Hampshire. And so it's a really interesting opportunity to figure out how to plug into community in a meaningful way with a fresh slate. And so you all have been very much in my heart and in my mind as I've been doing that, because I've been thinking about those conversations and, you know, knowing that it takes time. But how do you plug in? How do you find a way to be of service and also be open to receiving? Because I think that's part of it. It's a two-way street. And so, you know, I started with my little free library, which I think I sent you guys pictures of last week. And it was inspired in part by the mural painting that we did at The Cresh. You know, just the joy that went into that. It is the only mural in the world that was designed by three Caldecott award-winning illustrators and one who will someday be one because I'm still putting my money on Kayla Heron to be the fourth.

SPEAKER_00 31:39

Oh, she's amazing. Yeah. She was she was my roommate on the trip, and she she just is the best. She's so, so freaking talented. And and I watch her, I follow her. I follow them all, everyone on Instagram.

SPEAKER_01 31:50

Me too.

SPEAKER_00 31:51

Illustrations. And she'll do it so like offhand. She's like, I was in the airport, and here's this sketch that I did. And I'm like, I can't even imagine having that kind of talent. So she's she's really incredible. And everyone on the trip was. And just watching, and it was amazing to watch them. I'm sure you experienced too, just as someone who's not an artist, just it, there's no, there's no ego. They're just, they just came in, they did it, and they're just these amazing, like seemingly effortlessly talented individuals who come in together and do this thing and watching them just so seamlessly work together and do this thing that's so positive. And then incorporate us.

SPEAKER_01 32:24

As you said, those of us who are less artistically gifted, but we made beautiful circles and swirls for grass and giraffe painting and things like that. But they were so encouraging. I mean, Molly Idol is like, you can do this.

SPEAKER_00 32:38

She, Molly is the ultimate cheerleader. I loved her so much. She, we were doing this specific mural inside the crash that was, it was a giraffe mural that was around a bookshelf. And she could not have been more lovely and inspiring. And she was just the ultimate cheerleader. And I was just humbled, even being in her presence, trying to paint these little circles. And I'm like, and she just, there was no judgment. She was so wonderful. And it was just, it was an amazing, it was an amazing experience. They were the best.

SPEAKER_01 33:05

Well, and it struck me that that's part of what, you know, when we're talking about bringing that back home, it's approaching playfulness in how we take on art or take on life. That that joy that Molly and Juana and John and Caleb brought to their art is something we can all take and bring into everyday life as well. And I'm grateful for that.

SPEAKER_00 33:27

Yes, I am too. And I think that's someone again is an admitted type A person. It's very easy to think, yeah, take everything a little bit too seriously. And I am a perfectionist by nature. And watching just the fun that you can have with creativity, with anything that you're doing that's providing a positive contribution to the world, it's not so serious. It's any, everybody's got gifts, everybody has things to share. And I think, I think us together, uh, the teamwork that we had, and we all kind of brought our best to that. And we all contributed in different ways. And and I will say, Diane, you were amazing with the kids. I mean, watching, I have never seen someone who just so naturally connects with kids in a way that they just were, they were we gravitate towards Diane when we were at the crash. And it's because I think they just saw you as this safe person they could talk to. You just had such a warmth to you that I think that's a gift in and of itself, and not everyone has. And so knowing how you can contribute and just providing those gifts, I think is worth worth a lot.

SPEAKER_01 34:20

Thanks. You know, one of the things I was thinking about too, I was looking at pictures yesterday and elephants. I still can't get that elephant out of my out of my mind, the one who turned and walked right past our ears flapping in the in the wind.

SPEAKER_00 34:38

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 34:40

The look in that elephant's eyes. But I mean, it was it was one of those magical moments I won't ever forget. And sharing it with you all made it even more special. And it was sort of that moment of being so close that you literally could hold your breath as an elephant went past.

SPEAKER_00 34:58

And it's a memory, I'm never, it's the same thing. I'm never gonna forget that either. And there is something about that collective experience because we're all experiencing the same thing, even if we're processing it all a little bit differently, and to kind of look around and be like, you're experiencing this too, is something magical. And there was something about that being such a collective experience that we were all having that we'd never had before at the same time. That we're, yeah, I'm never gonna forget that. I also think about our our crash drive to get back where we were racing to try to get back before the games closed. It was dark out. We were, we were waiting to end, we had to wait through to get through this pack of elephants that were going by. And our our driver was just doing his best to get us back. So we were racing back in the dark. And I I can still feel the wind in my face as we were trying to get back so so quickly. And it's just such a magical experience. I left my body like multiple times that trip be like, I'm never gonna experience being in the moment and being like, all right, you know, even when I had my camera out, which goes back to that whole idea of connections and and being and being present. Like I had to put my camera down sometimes and be like, be, and I was very good. I was like, be present, remember this and feel it, because you know, that's gonna stand out so much, even more than a picture will.

SPEAKER_01 36:06

Well, and you said that at one point early on in our trip, and I really held on to that and absorbed it because I have beautiful pictures and I was able to get just incredible shots and discovered that that was a fun way for me to be artistic. But I also put the camera down, and so much of what I remember is from just sitting there and breathing and being part of it. You know, I was thinking about there were just so many magical moments, you know, whether it was sitting with the hippos. And for me, that is probably one of my favorite things was to sit on this bank and watch hippos swimming in the water and snorting and yawning. And they're just they're magical, incredible, dangerous animals. Um do not bring a hippo home as a pet, kids. Um, but they are absolutely fascinating creatures to watch because they're communicating with each other the whole time. And, you know, just knowing that you're there surrounded by all of this beauty. And for me, I think maybe the other thing is realizing how biodiverse South Africa is, but how biodiverse all of Africa is. You know, we had the experience of one country, but within that one country, there are so many different biomes, and it's so much deeper than what we're taught in school. You know, in school, it sort of all gets lumped into savannah and lions and elephants, and maybe a hyena for wana. Um, but you don't get a whole lot more than that in school. It's it's very stereotyped down to this one thing. And we were seeing, you know, little bits of rainforest, and we saw ocean biomes, and we saw rock pools, and we saw rivers, and we saw savannah, and we saw mountains. Yeah. There was just there was so much diversity within what we saw and who lived there that I think for me that was eye-opening. And that's something I'm sort of holding on to right now as I'm sort of thinking about my next steps and what I want to do with this experience and sharing it is how do you communicate how rich and diverse the animals, the people in the land are?

SPEAKER_00 38:24

There is so something to that. And I don't remember if you were with me when we had this one the one drive we took where we were seeing all the Niala out in that giant meadow, and then you could see the little monkeys that were running around. Yes. And there was, and that image has stuck out to me because, and it was it was Brenda, who another of our amazing authors and colleagues in the trip. And she was talking about how her experience was working in zoos and how when you're in a zoo, you you're so you're we are so used to growing up in that kind of artificial environment of the zoo for all the good that so many of these zoos do for our uh animals, tubes of conservation and donations and all that. But you see these animals in these separate enclosures and you don't ever see them interact. And it's just reiterated to me. I'm like, we so we know so little. And so that was the big part for me that was eye-opening. And it's just that respect for what you don't know and going into the environment with that openness to be like, all right, what am I gonna learn from here? And then how do I take that back? Like you're saying, I'm still processing through a lot of that and thinking about where else I want to go in the world to learn and be humble and sort of see what else is out there because it's so easy to just live in your day-to-day. But just knowing that even what we've grown up and seeing, you know, is different than what the reality is. And I think that that's so important when you think about how you grew up to be a conscientious, concerned citizen. It's about sort of always learning and always being open to sort of seeing that the worldview that you have is so small compared to what all is out there. And how do you continue to absorb that information and what can you do with it moving forward?

SPEAKER_01 39:50

I love that. All right. So, last question for today. What currently brings you hope?

SPEAKER_00 39:56

I would say what currently brings me hope is watching acts of service and any any act of service that I see in the day-to-day. I have I do volunteering locally at an animal shelter and seeing with my colleagues that I volunteer with and seeing them come in and do some positive good works, hearing about family and friends who are doing great volunteer work. I think anything that shows me commitment to trying to make the world a little bit better than how you leave it. I think that gives me hope. I think the easy thing anymore is to just get through your day-to-day and do the things that you need to do to survive. And that's very real and self-care is important. But I think what brings me hope is seeing others kind of give a little bit more and try to do something a little bit outside of themselves. Because one of the things I I took away from the trip and something that I really want to do is try to find little ways in the day-to-day to bring a little bit of extra joy and positivity to the world. I think it can be in small efforts, but I think there's a lot of value to try and do a little bit, a little bit of good in the day-to-day.

SPEAKER_01 40:53

Well, and I know you well enough to know that you are doing your little bit of good every single day. And I, you are sunshine personified. And I am so grateful that you were on the show today.

SPEAKER_00 41:05

Thank you so much for having me. So great to reconnect with you. It's been just a delight.

SPEAKER_01 41:10

Thank you. You've been listening to the Adventures in Learning podcast with your host, Dr. Diane. If you like what you're hearing, please subscribe, download, and let us know what you think, and please tell a friend. If you want the full show notes and the pictures, please go to dr Dianeadventures.com. We look forward to you joining us on our next adventure.