Learning from the Wild — Writing, Conservation, and Hope with Brenda Scott Royce

What if hope isn’t a feeling—but something you do?

From caring for orphaned rhinos to writing books that spark curiosity, this episode explores how learning, conservation, and community come together in powerful ways.

In Episode 167 of Adventures in Learning, Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor is joined by Brenda Scott Royce, author, former primate caregiver, and conservation advocate, for a heartfelt conversation about learning from the natural world.

Brenda shares her journey from publishing and primate care to writing books that connect children with animals and conservation. Together, Diane and Brenda reflect on their recent trip to South Africa with Children’s Book Creators for Conservation (CBCC)—from reading aloud to preschoolers to hands-on conservation work at a rhino orphanage.

This episode is a reminder that learning happens through curiosity, connection, and action—and that, as Brenda reminds us, hope is a verb with its sleeves rolled up.

🕒 Episode Chapters & Timestamps

01:00 — Writing, Primates, and Purpose

Following curiosity instead of a straight career path

06:30 — Writing Books That Connect Kids to Animals

Stories, nonfiction, and nurturing curiosity

08:20 — Helping Children Fall in Love with Nature

Access, observation, and letting kids lead

10:05 — Why CBCC and South Africa

Traveling with like-minded creators for conservation

15:20 — Meeting Lazula: A Rhino Full-Circle Moment

From fundraiser photo to bottle-feeding a rhino

18:40 — Conservation, Community, and Responsibility

What real change looks like on the ground

24:00 — Seeing the Whole Ecosystem

Why animals—and learning—aren’t isolated

33:30 — Continuing the Work: Chimps in Zambia

Solo conservation work after South Africa

38:00 — Hope Is a Verb

What brings hope right now

🔗 Links & Resources

• Children’s Book Creators for Conservation (CBCC)
• Wild Tomorrow and blog about the trip
• Publishers Weekly article about the trip
• Brenda Scott Royce — books & writing
• Connect with Brenda on LinkedIn, Instagram, and Bluesky

Transcript

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SPEAKER_01 0:02

Welcome to the Adventures in Learning Podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Diane, and today we are going to be traveling to South Africa. That's right. We are going to be having a warm and cozy conversation with my dear friend Brenda Scott Royce. She is a well-known and multi-layered author. She's written novels and she's written for children. She has worked with primates for years as a caregiver. And she was one of the traveling companions on my recent trip with CBCC. I am so looking forward to this catch up, and I know you all will be too. Let's get it started. Wonder, Curiosity, Connection. Where will your adventures take you? I'm Dr. Diane, and thank you for joining me on today's episode of Adventures in Learning. Brenda, welcome to the Adventures in Learning Podcast. I'm so happy to see you. I'm so happy to see you again, Diane. I've missed seeing your face. I've missed you too. And it was just so much fun to spend that time together. And we're going to dive really deep into South Africa in the second half of the podcast. But before we start, I would love it if you would talk a little bit about your own adventures in learning because you have had such a varied and interesting career. And I think that the listeners out there would love to hear how you were able to combine your love of primates and writing into who Brenda Scott Royce is today. Can you tell us a little bit about your adventures in learning?

SPEAKER_00 1:45

Sure. Yeah, I didn't set out to have this career. It just kind of happened along the way. Um I had these two, you know, my my writing was always an interest and I got pretty good at it, I think. Um, but animals were my passion and specifically for whatever reason, primates. I loved chimpanzees since I was a little kid. I just, they were the animal that called to me the most. Um, so I had a room full of chimpanzees, memorabilia, plush, posters, and all of that, but I never thought that could be a career. And in fact, somebody asked me once when I was little what I wanted to be, and I said Jane Goodall. And I see her book right behind you because we both greatly admired Jane. Um, I was just like, I I want to be her. I didn't know what a primatologist was. What a what a word that, what could that be? I just knew I wanted to be her, but I also like to write, I like to write stories, never thought of combining them. And then my career path was I worked in publishing, started as an office manager, worked my way up to where I was editing books and I was also writing freelance. And I decided to go back to school and get a degree. And I thought at that point I was working professionally as an editor and a writer. So I didn't want to get an English degree. I thought if I'm gonna go to school and pay for it on my own, I want to study something that I just love. So I studied primatology. And people would ask me, what are you gonna do with a degree in primatology? And I said, I don't know. I think I will follow Jane Goodall around and ask her, can I edit your books? Can I help you with something? Um, I really had no idea where that would lead me, just that that it fascinated me. So if you're gonna go to school, study something that absolutely fascinates you, even though I had no plan whatsoever. So I did that. And then right around the time I was graduating with my degree, I found out that the LA Zoo had a member magazine and that person was leaving their position. So that job was open. And it was like one of those times the universe speaks to you and says, here's this job that exists that combines animals and writing and editing. And I got that job. It was perfect. And I I was there for over 20 years.

SPEAKER_01 4:07

That's amazing. So during your time at the LA Zoo, you must have seen and done fascinating things. Can you share a couple of the highlights with us?

SPEAKER_00 4:18

Sure. And before that, I should mention before I got the job at the zoo, I worked as a chimpanzee caregiver at a wildlife sanctuary.

SPEAKER_01 4:25

Oh, wow. For a couple of years. So well, include that in the highlights reel too, then for heaven's sake.

SPEAKER_00 4:31

That was the crazy story. Caring for chimpanzees, you know, it's it's a messy job, but but you know, you love it. I I just loved it. At the LA Zoo, I got to witness a hippopotamus giving birth several years ago. That was amazing. Like the it was on exhibit, and I was trying to leave early that day. It was Halloween, and I had told my son, I will leave work early so we can go trick or treating. And then people are disappearing around the office. And I thought, is everyone sneaking out early to take their kid trick-or-treating? And then I heard, no, no, we're going up to the hippo exhibit because the hippo is in labor. So I said, okay, ran up there and she was, you know, rolling around and she was uncomfortable. And I kept looking at my watch, going, I really want to see this, but I promised my kid I don't know what to do. And just when I was telling my boss, I'm gonna leave, the hippo really quickly shot out a baby. Wow. It was like all this waiting and waiting, and then it was literally a poo. And the moment where the baby hit the ground and didn't move for a moment, so everybody, and so this is staff and the public all crowded around, and vets were there on standby in case anything went wrong. But so there's a huge crowd of people, and the you know, baby is born, plop, and everyone holds their breath because we're not seeing it move. So we're just like and then it starts to move, and we're like, oh like picture, picture, okay, gotta go. So that was pretty exciting. Yeah. But yeah, I got to go behind the scenes a lot, got to see a lot of really cool things, observe a couple of surgeries, as uh, you know, just fascinating. You know, learned so much. I went in only knowing about primates because of my degree. I didn't know what half of the the animals with hooves were, but I learned, I learned, learned a lot about the reptiles, the birds, and everything.

SPEAKER_01 6:30

You know, and when we were in South Africa, I had the privilege of listening to you read aloud from some of your books to a crush full of preschool, nursery school children. Obviously, during that time you were at the zoo, you were also writing and publishing. Can you share some of your books so that my listeners who are animal lovers know what they ought to be going out to get?

SPEAKER_00 6:53

Yeah, I started out my first couple of books were novels for adults that um romantic comedies and called Monkey Love and Monkey Star, because I was writing a romantic comedy, a chicklet, as they called it in the day. And I thought, well, what would happen if I put a monkey into the plot? So there's a monkey featuring, featuring those books. And then over the years, I kind of shifted gears to writing more for children. So I write fiction and nonfiction. I wrote a series of books called Zoo Crew about kids that volunteer at their local zoo and what they learn about and how they can help. I wrote a series of books for the ASPCA called uh Pet Rescue Club about kids who rescue pets. I've written books about sharks and horses and, you know, anything that has to do with animals. I've wrote a book called 1,000 Amazing Animal Facts, which was so much fun because I just researched the heck out of every animal until I got to that fact that even made me go, wow, you know, and then like, okay, that's the fact that I'm going to put in the book.

SPEAKER_01 7:57

That's really cool. Yeah. So thinking about with all of that experience you've got, you've been researching animals for years, you've been living the work. What are some ways that educators and librarians and caregivers can help nurture that love of animals and that connection to conservation in the children that surround them?

SPEAKER_00 8:22

That's a great question. I find it's very innate in kids. Most kids I talk to, that love of nature is innate. They might not have had access to it. So I think that's part of it is just giving them access in our busy lives, and especially if you live in the cities, that's really hard. And I know that was hard for myself as a mom when my son was little, but just getting him outside sometimes and letting him dig in the backyard and trying to find worms or whatever it is sparks that connection. I think it's g giving them access. But when I've have gone into classrooms and talked to kids, I don't feel like I have to teach them about nature or encourage them to learn about it. I find it's already there. They're they're thirsty, they're excited, they're they love. And when I start to talk about anything, you know, and you raise ask kids if they have questions, they always raise their hands and they don't want to ask you questions. They want to tell you, I saw a snake. Oh, and I saw this bird and it was red, and it was, and I saw a worm, and I saw, and it's great.

SPEAKER_01 9:24

It's like fabulous. So it's really then, it sounds like, you know, feeding their natural desire, providing the information that allows them to learn more. But also, and I think you just hit on this, giving them the opportunity to be the educator and to share what they're observing and noticing, because especially in those early years, they're such sponges. And they really do become primatologists or paleontologists or entomologists, you know, whatever it is that fascinates them, they become that expert. And allowing them to share their knowledge is huge, I think. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. So let's turn to South Africa for a moment. And I want to ask, you and I both traveled with CBCC. And what was it that drew you to that trip with Wild Tomorrow and C B C C Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_00 10:20

When I learned about it, I first of all I thought, why didn't I come up with this amazing idea? Children's Book Creators for Conservation. And then why didn't I know about it sooner? How could this amazing, brilliant thing that was created by Haley and John Rocco, how did that exist for one second and I didn't know about it? Because it's so perfect. It's just so bringing together children's book creators for conservation. It's like that's that should be me, right? So I heard about it one night at a event, and I immediately went home and I Googled, what is it? I signed up for, you know, let me know what's going on. And the next time that they announced the trip that we went on, I applied immediately and was like waiting with bated breath and was so excited that I got to go.

unknown 11:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:09

So I'm still pinching myself months later that we did.

SPEAKER_00 11:14

Me too. Because, you know, I I was about to say anyone can go to Africa, which is not true. We know that. Um, it's it's expensive, it's a big commitment in time and money to go to Africa. But I could have gone, I had gone to Africa once years earlier with a photographer friend. So I knew that I I can get myself to South Africa and I can go to some of these places. But for me, especially as an introvert and a shy person, doing it with a group of like-minded people was what really, I mean, all the experiences were amazing. But I guess that's what also drew me to it was this isn't just me going out and finding an adventure for myself. This is me finding an adventure with a group of people who share my same interests and skills and excitement. And so that was that made it just incredible to be with people.

SPEAKER_01 12:09

I think that was the for me at least, that's still been one of the big takeaways is realizing in a world that feels dark a lot of the time, there are so many people who are beacons for conservation, for empathy, for connection, for finding the joy in the world and doing something to spread that. And that was sort of my biggest takeaway in terms of the group of people we were with is isn't it lovely to live in a world where there are these amazing people, where there's a Brenda Scott Royce, a Haley and John Rocco, a Juana Martinez-Neal, a Molly Idle, Leah Henderson, a Meg Fleming, a Kayla Heron, an Anne Dyer. You know, to know that all of those people exist and are part of our world is huge. And then not to mention all the community members in South Africa doing the work on the ground for conservation and education. I mean, that was pretty special. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:13

Yeah. You know, you go for me, I went there imagining all the animals, but that it's the people that really love the animals, but it's the people that really changed my heart, I think.

SPEAKER_01 13:30

Imagine a space where curiosity drives innovation, where empathy fuels collaboration, and where learning feels less like a task and more like an adventure. My message isn't about adding more to your plate, it's about changing how you see the plate entirely. I'm Dr. Diane Jackson Schnorr, and through the power of purposeful play, I equip leaders, educators, and organizations with the tools you need to unlock creative problem solving, deepen human connection, and build resistant ecosystems of empathy and innovation. Attendees will walk away not just inspired but empowered, with immediately usable strategies to spark curiosity in teams, to lead with empathy, and to impuse learning into their everyday cultures. You'll learn how play isn't child's work, it's the secret weapon of the world's most effective leaders and change makers. This is not a feel-good talk that fades by Monday morning, it's a movement. A shift in how we engage people, solve problems, and lead meaningful change. My talks and workshops are shaped by decades of experience in education and a transformative message that connects across sectors. Whether your audience is corporate, educational, or nonprofit, they'll leave ready to rethink what's possible, both personally and professionally. Because when we learn and lead through play, we don't just change organizations, we change the world. Check it out at drdianadventures.com. I have to say, one of my absolute favorite memories, and I'm gonna share this picture because it's a picture that Chantel Meltzer took, and I'm gonna put it in the show notes because this is one of my absolute favorite pictures of you. And it's this absolute joy that you had the day you met your rhinoceros. Can you tell that story? Yes.

SPEAKER_00 15:28

Okay, so before the trip, a couple months before, well, it was probably in March of this year, I went to a rhino fundraiser out here in Southern California. And I didn't know much about it. Who was going to be speaking? I knew Global Conservation Force is the organization that put it together. And I'm for any animal fundraiser you can get me to go, especially if there's wine and food, you know, I can support the conservation. So I went with a friend and they have the silent auction, which I'm often a sucker for a good silent auction name. But a lot, yeah, a lot of it was big, beautiful photographs. And I'm like, these are gorgeous photos of rhinos, but I have no wall space. I don't, you know, I have tons of animal art on my walls. I'm not gonna. Then we go in, and one of the speakers, her name is Karen, and she's with the Zululand Rhino Orphanage. And so then she talks about this orphanage and she talks about Lazula, who is a blind orphaned rhino that they found. And Lazula means wanderer in Zulu, and they found this rhino. Most of the rhinos that they took in, their parents were killed by their mothers were killed by poachers. So they know the story. Lazula, they don't know, they presume that's what happened, but they found her, him, sorry, wandering. And they they took him in. So after hearing that story, then there was a little intermission at this fundraiser. And I go back out to the silent auction and I see that one of the prints was of Lazoula. And then I'm like, oh well, now I know your story. Now I have to bid on this big print that I have nowhere on my walls to put. And so I bid on it and I won it. And I also found out, I asked the Karin at that event, I said, Is there more than one rhino orphanage in South Africa? Because I'm gonna be going to one in September. And she said, Oh no, that that'll be me. He'll be coming to us. And I'm like, oh wow. So then when we were there on our trip, and I asked them, is Lazula still here? And they're like, Oh yes, would you like to feed him? And I was like, I have his picture on my wall. Can I really feed him? And they said, Yes. Well, I think somebody else had the bottle of milk and was going to feed them. I don't remember if it was you or one of the other people on the trip, but offered it to me. So then I had I got the amazing opportunity to bottle feed Lazula. And then somebody asked me how I felt, and I started to cry. It was just like and then we all started to cry. How amazing. I bought this picture in Temecula, California, and then never know believing, knowing or even guessing that a few months later I would be bottle feeding that rhino. That same rhino.

SPEAKER_01 18:19

For folks who don't know the work of the rhino orphanages and the work of the folks who are working to end poaching, whether they're doing the dehorning or whether they're the rangers who are patrolling for snares or out making sure that poachers aren't on the lands, you know, the people who are working in classrooms to educate and to help communities grow food, you know, all of those things go into protecting these keystone species. What were some of your big takeaways like as you went through that and some of those other experiences?

SPEAKER_00 18:57

Oh, so much. I I found what surprised me was that, like I think I alluded to earlier, that I went for the animals, but the people are what touched me. Going to the preschool, reading to the kids, helping in a small way to paint the gorgeous mural that our fellow travelers who are very accomplished artists drew. It was the children, the the teachers, the workers, the the staff of Wild Tomorrow, everyone we met, just they're because they're doing the work. Like I write about it and sometimes I help when I can. But the people who have devoted their lives to doing this work are so, so inspiring.

SPEAKER_01 19:44

I agree. And they're everyday heroes. And I'm looking forward to sharing so much more of the content that I filmed and put together and wrote about in 2026 and beyond. Like that's something I'm very excited about because it took some time to process it and figure out how to tell and share those stories. But they are the on-the-ground conservation heroes. And I think that in so many ways they can be inspiring to kids as well. That, you know, you don't have to have a degree as a primatologist. You don't have to be Jane Goodall. You literally can do small things that are your passion that can help make a difference. Yes. So another of my favorite photos of you from that trip, it's one where we were doing bird banding and you're releasing a bird, and the joy on your face is palpable. It's just such a great photo. I know, like me, you were nerding out over the idea of all of these birds. Can you talk a little bit about that experience?

SPEAKER_00 20:48

Yeah, I found I was nerding out like every day. And every day I thought, oh, this is the best day. And then the next day we do something totally different. I'm like, oh my God, no, this is the best day. The science behind it and sitting there and taking the notes was so much fun to me. Because a lot of these things that we did, whether it was uh participating in the rhino horn trimming or or the bird banding, there are things I've written about. I've written hundreds of articles about conservation, and I've written about things like horn, rhino horn trimming and the reasons behind it. But never it's so much different to be there in person, to see it, to smell it, to feel the rhino, to release the bird. It's like I think that was just like I can't believe my luck that the something that I wrote about, I I'm I'm experiencing it in this moment. It's just really overwhelming. And then I'd be like, no, this is really the best day until the next day.

SPEAKER_01 21:48

Exactly. And there were so many days like that. And it just it continued and it added up. You know, standing in the Indian Ocean and thinking, I never for a moment dreamed that I would. be at the Indian Ocean and then to be looking in the tide pools and seeing the small creatures that lived there and realizing this is yet another ecosystem. And, you know, just thinking about South Africa and the diversity of the ecosystems, that, you know, it's not all savannah. It's not all forest. There is, you know, an ocean part to it. You know, there's so many different components to what makes up a healthy ecosystem. That for me was mind-blowing. Just it it went beyond anything we were ever taught in schools.

SPEAKER_00 22:35

Right. And that's another thing that I didn't expect from this trip. Going to to South Africa, but we're going to spend a day at the beach. Like that's not what I expect. I expected the the safaris and and all of the conservation work. I didn't expect the beach and it was again amazing. And there were monkeys at the beach.

SPEAKER_01 22:56

Yes. Let's talk about the monkeys because you were definitely our guide to the monkeys and I appreciated that so much. Can you tell folks a little bit about the different monkeys we saw in South Africa?

SPEAKER_00 23:09

What did we see? We mostly saw vervets. We saw a lot of vervets and I think we saw a couple of some mango monkeys. But vervets were all over that beach man. And then the restaurant too that we went to in Shoshue National Park and the wait staff is like shooing them away because they're pests to them. But we we were all especially me I was like taking a picture. Yeah vervet monkeys are known to be brats but I love them. So when we saw I can't even tell you how many vervets we saw.

SPEAKER_01 23:41

But and they were so curious and fascinating. You actually took a picture of me that I love because you caught the vervet monkey over my shoulder at that lunch where they were really trying to go for the food and um had made themselves at home.

SPEAKER_00 23:57

Yeah. And I was like oh I wish I was on that side of the table so I could get a picture of my them behind me. But I'm going to I see Diane nicely framed. I'm going to get that picture. I love that picture.

SPEAKER_01 24:09

I appreciate it. Yeah they were amazing. And you know to see them for me I think actually the biggest thing in terms of seeing the monkeys and I remember saying this at the time it was when we were out on a game drive at Wild Tomorrow it was one of the very last game drives and we were coming through and we saw a field which had the fluffy fancy pants and you know the impalas and all of these these animals and then there were monkeys as well. And when we think about a zoo experience we usually see animals in isolation and they're not together and to see birds and impala and monkeys all sharing that same space and part of that same meadow ecosystem that for me was a it it was a connecting dots kind of moment that we're not acting in isolation that what happens to one impacts others. And I'm wondering how do we bring that message home to kids who may only ever see animals in a zoo setting.

SPEAKER_00 25:21

Yeah and and I have to say that good zoos are doing more and more mixed species exhibits it's hard. It makes it a lot more expensive because if you imagine an exhibit with just a monkey in it, that's one kind of need behind the scenes for caging and all of that. If you have an exhibit which we we've had some at the LA Zoo where this got birds and monkeys and it's got some little hoofstock deer species on the ground it makes it a lot harder in terms of designing and taking care of those animals. So a lot of zoos might not have the resources to do it. Some like the San Diego Zoo Wild Animal Park has beautiful I mean you would think you're almost in South Africa because you can look out and you can see multi-species. You might not always notice the fence that separates the predators from the prey species, but you can see them together. And I think the fact that most zoos historically have done that like here is the monkey here is the deer here is the this has caused us to think of them just separately and not about how they interact. And I mean that's we need to do more of that in zoos I think because then you we wouldn't have had that moment of like oh yeah they all do share the same space and one tree is going to be and the the the little things we're not even seeing from the from our jeep with the the insects and all of that and the snakes and it's a a whole ecosystem. So I I don't know what we can do other than really applaud the zoos that do multi-species habitats and do them well.

SPEAKER_01 26:56

Yeah and and maybe that's part of the books that we write as well is making sure that when we're we're writing and sharing that we're showing ecosystems in their richness and diversity. Because I think that that was something I just I I definitely took away from the dung beetle to the puff adders. You know I'm not a big fan of the puff adder but I recognize it also has a place in that ecosystem and is important. You know, so knowing that all of those things are part of what creates the space is huge.

SPEAKER_00 27:29

Right. And they all they all like we saw firsthand the dung beetle and the very important role that it plays in in a healthy ecosystem you know it's got an important role. So yeah as writers I do think that is part of us and and and to get it right because nothing irks me more than to see a book or a movie that shows you know an Asian species and an African and a South African species all sitting together and in the same jungle.

SPEAKER_01 27:56

One of the things that I hadn't realized and you know we experienced it in Shishlui and at the national park and also on the Wild Tomorrow properties is the importance of management of resources and things like the controlled burns and um you know how they take care of the land, how they look after the animals, how they allow nature to run its course but as Kevin said if it's a man-made um situation then it's on us to go in and rectify that which we've done I thought that was a really interesting way to sort of draw the line on where you intervene. It was the problem caused by humans or was it something that would have happened in nature? Those things all surprised me. They may not have surprised you as much based on the writings and the things that you do but I'm wondering were there moments that you kind of went oh that's interesting.

SPEAKER_00 28:52

I didn't know that oh yeah all every day I think I certainly don't presume to know everything even though just before we went on this trip a book of mine came out that is the African Animal Encyclopedia but still I was out there like Kevin what is this? What is like I I certainly I I I know I know a little bit about a lot of things and and you mentioned the controlled burns that was something that I never thought about. I mean I know about controlled burns in theory but to go to a huge national park like Shushue and see you know the vast swaths that they were burning and and and then it was happening all around too at the other parks and to learn about how the how why they do that. But just again see it in action is different than reading about it. Because maybe I've read about that before that they have to do that in the big parks it makes sense. But then to see it and to see how how fast it grew back. Because we went back a few days later and there was all this new significant green shoots new growth coming up and it was it's like that's amazing.

SPEAKER_01 30:03

And to learn which animals feed on that new growth because it's got a different taste and it draws different peop different creatures to that space. One of my favorite memories was an off it was an off books thing. It wasn't part of our our daily schedule it was one of the days that we had time to rest and create and think and I hopped in the Jeep with Kevin and Haley and John because he was going to go out and do a tour of the burn and I thought if you're given the opportunity to go out, go out. And it wound up being this amazing experience and I didn't bring my good camera that day. So this is all locked in my brain more than anywhere else. And that's okay because I I wasn't expecting it honestly it may be more present because I didn't have my camera. Right. But we saw zebras and wildebeests and warthogs coming out onto that new growth. But we also saw hippos and for me that was incredible because Kevin took us up to this bank which you guys got to see a couple days later but we literally sat on the bank and watched the hippos call to each other and he let us sit there for like half an hour. And for me just to sit in that space and watch the interaction you could see crocodiles in the distance you saw the herons you saw all the different kinds of birds that were there but it was watching this I don't even know what you call a mass of hippos. Is it a raft? Is it a right but there were like 20 hippos there and I know there's a word for it and I'll have to find that word but to sit there and watch them and to be able to also trace their presence by footprints and their dung was pretty incredible. Right. To recognize what a privilege it was to be there. And not not too close because obviously they're a lot more dangerous than they appear to be. They're not the cute little creatures that we see in cartoons. There is a there's a slightly more dangerous side to them but you know to be that close and be able to appreciate them with respect.

SPEAKER_00 32:13

Yes. And to take that time because a lot of what you see in zoos is people go up oh it's a hippo and they go or or I don't see anything and they leave. Well wait sit watch I mean we got to just sit and see all the interact in interactions and see you know animals that you didn't notice and then you see a little movement and then you realize what's been been there on that branch all along. Right. I think people need to and I really appreciate about that trip that we had moments to just sit sit on that bank and watch all of just nature play out.

SPEAKER_01 32:49

I mean there was a moment and again it was sort of towards those final days where we had gone we had gone back to Shushlui and I remember seeing one elephant materialize in the field. And then as your eyes start adjusting and you start looking up the hill you suddenly realize that elephant's not there in isolation there are 20 elephants, 30 elephants going up that hill as far as you can see but they're so well blended into the surroundings that you have to stop and look and know what it is you're looking at. So having done all of that you then left us and went on an amazing trip afterwards.

SPEAKER_00 33:30

Can you talk a little bit about what your follow on was yeah so you know when I learned that I was going on this amazing trip to South Africa I thought well if I'm going to be on the African continent I want to also do something else and work with chimpanzees because they are my first love. And so I looked into different places and I ended up going to Zambia to the chimpanzee chimpanzee sanctuary. It's not called that chimpanzee orphanage but they have they have chimpanzees that are almost exclusively were rescued from either poaching or pet situations and and they're from many different countries all over Africa. I forget the number of chimps that they have but it's in the it's 60 70 something like that. And so I did that for a week or eight days eight or nine days and it was a totally different experience. And I'm really glad I did both because the first experience with you guys, you know, it was in a group I felt very safe not that I didn't feel safe in Zambia but then I was on my own. I traveled on my own and I got there and there were very nice lovely people but I still felt a little isolated. I was the only American there which surprised me there were volunteers other volunteers from all over you know French, German, Dutch, one Canadian so there were a lot of different the dinner table you'd hear all different languages going on. And of course a lot of them spoke English as well so we could communicate but as an introvert that took me a little while to get used to and and it was hard work. It wasn't like you know we're going to show you what we do and you're going to help for a little while. Like we got to help at the rhino orphanage and we literally got to shovel rhino poop which was awesome but we didn't do it from sunup to sundown you know right in in Zambia you you volunteer you're volunteering because they need help and you're going to work and you're going to push wheelbarrows and you're going to chop food and it was all great. I loved it. I wouldn't I kept telling myself while I was there I'm like well gosh why am I so sore? I used to do this. I was a chimpanzee keeper and then I remembered that was 30 years ago and I've been working behind a desk since then. So my body was not used to doing the physical work. So I would be oh my this is this is tough and and lifting heavy heavy things that I used to be able to lift easily where that was harder. And just I really appreciated how amazing they take amazing care of their chimpanzees with fewer or at least different resources than here in the States when I was taking care of chimps we gave the chimps all all different forms of enrichment which were usually usually things that we bought in a supermarket or a department store. There they said okay you're going to do enrichment for the chimps go into the forest go into the bush and collect and I was like is that safe? Are there going to be snakes they're like yeah yeah look out for the snakes but go collect things and then make some enrichment which was really fun and interesting. It's just different. So I really enjoyed talking to their animal care staff learning how they do things and so often it would be like oh yeah that's just how we do it or it's a little different and meeting some of their chimpanzees it was it was great. I got a really good workout and I was really happy to go on at the end of it.

SPEAKER_01 37:02

That's amazing Brenda and you made me want to do something like that in the future. You know I am so grateful for the add-on I had where I got to actually help a little bit with conservation for the African penguins and got to have sort of an incredible experience that I was never expecting thanks to the Dyer Conservation Trust. We actually got to participate in releasing a seal from it it was trapped in plastic and we got to be present for that as well as a penguin release. It was just it was one of those once in a lifetime opportunities but every single day as you said was a once in a lifetime opportunity. As we look towards the close of 2025 and the beginning of 2026 I have two final questions for you. First question is what brings you hope right now and the second question is what do you wish for in 2026? What are you looking forward to?

SPEAKER_00 38:04

Oh okay what brings me hope right now and again I love that you have Jane Goodall's book Reason for a hope right behind you. So there's a quote that I uncovered when I was getting I got my master's degree in conservation biology and a quote that I read early on stuck with me environmentalist David Orr in one of the papers I was reading said hope is a verb with its sleeves rolled up. The quote goes on and I can't remember it all but that hope is its verb with its sleeves rolled up. I remember when I first was getting really interested in environmental issues in my 20s and I felt hopeless. It jaw just seemed so overwhelming and the problem seemed so big and how how how could anything that I do make any diff difference? So I would get very depressed about things like that. And what gives me hope now is people like you and the rest of our team we went we did we helped we helped pull those invasive species and we helped care for those rhinos and we helped you know paint the crush and we we we did what we could in that situation. And then the people that I met in Zambia, there were young people who were there for months they would go to volunteer with the chimps for three three months not making any money. In fact you pay a volunteer stipend for your room and board but that's what where they want to be that's they want to help and all for their own reasons but so much of it when I talk to them about individual reasons it's have to do something. I see what's happening I see that these problems in the world and you know what's happening to wildlife and I want to help. And so that gives me hope is just seeing the people here in in Southern California I volunteer for SoCalp parrot rescue and we rescue our our naturalized local parrots when they're injured and we bring them in for rescue rehabilitation and then we release them back into the wild. And I did that recently and there was you know 20 people who had come who had transported the birds or helped them at some point part of their journey and then we all wanted to see them be released and fly away. So though things like that seeing the people who want to take action and who take time out of their busy lives even at expense to themselves to help that gives me hope.

SPEAKER_01 40:31

I love that and I will never forget that quote now hope is a verb with its sleeves rolled up. Yeah it's great right it's fabulous. So last question Brenda looking into 2026 what are you wishing for oh that's the harder one to to answer.

SPEAKER_00 40:48

My life's in a little bit of an upheaval I was laid off from that job that I loved for 20 years, which I'm looking at as an opportunity to do new things. Not sure what that will be. It will certainly be something conservation related. I'm definitely looking forward to taking some of the experiences that we had in Africa and turning that into creative writing projects maybe a maybe a book or two will come out of it. I'm not sure I definitely hope to stay in touch with my CBCC friends and while tomorrow and to follow what they're doing because it's so important and so awe-inspiring.

SPEAKER_01 41:28

Well you are important and awe-inspiring and I'm so glad that this trip brought us together. Brenda thank you for joining us on the Adventures in Learning Podcast today. Thanks so much for having me. You've been listening to the Adventures in Learning Podcast with your host Dr. Diane. If you like what you're hearing please subscribe download and let us know what you think and please tell a friend. If you want the full show notes and the pictures please go to drdianeadventures. We look forward to you joining us on our next adventure