Just One Oak: Growing Wonder, Science, and Story with Maria Gianferrari & Diana Sudyka

What if one oak tree could help kids fall in love with science, story, and their own backyards? In Episode 194, author Maria Gianferrariand illustrator Diana Sudyka share how their new picture book Just One Oakturns a single tree into a whole universe of keystone species, climate conversations, and everyday nature joy, from city parks to schoolyards.

Summary

In this episode of Adventures in Learning with Dr. Diane, author Maria Gianferrari and illustrator Diana Sudyka talk about their collaboration on Fungi Grow and their newest nature picture book, Just One Oak. They share how a lifelong love of the outdoors, urban ecology, and everyday backyard wildlife fuels their work and helps kids see that nature isn’t “out there” in national parks -- it’s right outside their doors in cities, suburbs, and schoolyards.

Maria explains how Doug Tallamy’s The Nature of Oaks and the Homegrown National Park movement inspired her to celebrate oak trees as keystone species and to weave science, vocabulary, and rich back matter into lyrical, read-aloud text. Diana talks about researching oak ecosystems, grieving the loss of 200–250 year old oaks in Illinois, and visually “peopling” the pages with ants, weevils, and acorn woodpeckers so readers can sense the oak as a living habitat.

Together, they and Dr. Diane explore how Just One Oak can launch lessons on ecosystems, climate change, keystone species, and habitats for elementary and middle school learners, and how picture books act as true art objects that teach complex science to kids and adults alike. They also share their creative origin stories, upcoming projects about dead wood and oak forests, and what currently gives them hope: young people, community, and small, daily moments of wonder like hummingbirds, frogs, and backyard birds.

Chapters

• [01:30] Nature as Shared Inspiration: Maria and Diana describe nature as their place of solace, joy, and curiosity, and how their shared love of the natural world fuels their collaborations
• [04:18] Urban Ecology & Everyday Nature: Finding wildlife and nature connection in cities and suburbs (backyard coyotes, bobcats, and Central Park birding, oh my!)
• [08:12] Inside Just One Oak: Keystone Species & Research: How Doug Tallamy and The Nature of Oaks inspired the concept, from microscopic soil life to birds and mammals relying on oaks as keystone species.
• [12:49] Old Oaks, Loss, and Art as Response: Channeling grief and urgency into art
• [16:25] Building a Spread: Acorn Woodpeckers & Hidden Details: Walk through the acorn woodpecker “granary” spread, talking about lyrical text, scientific sidebars, visual storytelling, and packing pages with tiny creatures.
• [22:36] Teaching with Just One Oak in K–8 Classrooms: Using the book to teach keystone species, climate change, habitats, food webs, and close observation across grade levels.
• [26:51] Becoming an Author: Maria's path from shy, nature-loving child to children’s author, persistence through rejection, and turning encounters like Coyote Moon into nonfiction
• [32:10] From Band Posters to Picture Books: Diana's path from screen-printed band posters to books like The Mysterious Benedict Society, and why picture books are a powerful narrative art form.
• [36:53] Picture Books as Art Objects in the Age of AI: Why the craft, intention, and skill behind picture books remains relevant and timely
• [40:01] Favorite Places in Nature & Learning to Love Where You Live: From Illinois forest preserves and Lake Michigan to New England woods and ponds, discover the joy of backyard birding and travel.
• [46:22] What’s Next: Dead Wood & Acorn Adventures: Maria previews her upcoming book From Forest to a Dead Tree’s Legacy, while Diana shares her forthcoming author/illustrator title The Acorn’s Gift.
• [48:52] What Brings Hope: young people, readers, community, and everyday wonders like phoebes, hummingbirds, and backyard wildlife.

Links

• Learn more about Maria Gianferrari and Diana Sudyka (and check out the resource guides for their books on their websites!)
• Order Fungi Grow and Just One Oak
• Follow Maria on Instagram & Facebook
• Follow Diana on Instagram & Facebook

Transcript

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SPEAKER_02 0:00

Welcome to the Adventures in Learning Podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Diane, and I am so happy you're joining me today because we have an author-illustrator combo who touched on some of the things you know I love the most. Their first book together was Funky Gross, and just now, just out is just one o. And I'm so excited to welcome Maria, John Ferrari, and Diana Sadika. And we're gonna have a fabulous conversation about books, nature, and everything in between. Maria, Diana, welcome to the show. Wonder, Curiosity, Connection. Where will your adventures take you? I'm Dr. Diane, and thank you for joining me on today's episode of Adventures in Learning. So, Diana, Maria, welcome to the show. I'm so happy to have you. It's you've both had incredible careers in your own right, and I want to talk about you as individual artists. But before that, it's such an unusual thing to have the author and the illustrator in the same room at the same time for a discussion. Let's start by talking about your collaboration. I'd love to talk about just one oak, which just came out, but also Fungi Grows, because you've got two very cool nature books sitting side by side. What was the process in the creation? What made you drawn to these topics? And what do you hope people get out of these beautiful books? Maria.

SPEAKER_03 1:33

Well, I think I could speak for Diana that we're both, I think, nature lovers. And one of the places that I find the most comfort. I mean, there's lots, so many terrible things happening in the world. And, you know, I I sort of feel like nature is is my my church, so to speak. So it's a place where I find solace and peace and joy, and I'm constantly inspired by different things that I learn. And I sort of feel like all of my books are celebrations in a way. So I discover something and I want to celebrate it with readers. And I am so delighted that I get to do that with Diana, who brings her own special vision and magic to the subject that we're talking about, whether it's fungi or trees or whatnot. So that's kind of it, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 2:27

Yeah, I just love it's for me, I've always been very interested and connected to the natural world, the natural sciences. And part of that is the way I grew up, you know, in the 70s and 80s, spending a lot of time outside in rural areas, which aren't necessarily, you know, I would call anything natural about them, but being outdoors and observing wildlife and finding connection in that and that connection uh growing in my adulthood, especially, you know, anytime that it's a constant. And we're I, you know, we are part of nature. We evolved out of these ecosystems, these organisms, whether it's, you know, like we're talking about fungi or oak trees. And also I'm someone that I've traveled quite a bit, but I am I've lived my whole life in Illinois. I'm in the northeastern part of the state, and I have gotten to know a lot of the ecosystems around here or, you know, ones that previously existed. And that has been a great source of joy and connection. And and connecting, you know, finding community with other people who are interested in those things and trying to do things to to make those things better. So yeah, it and so, and part of that, of course, is why I I absolutely love working with Maria. And I think we we have it's so nice, you know, to work with someone who you don't have to explain this stuff to.

SPEAKER_02 4:18

Now that makes a lot of sense. And as I'm listening to you both talk, it feels like there's a great passion for the natural world and the kind of thing that you can certainly discover. I came to Chicago a couple of years ago when the cicada convergence was happening, and you all were the spot for the the double broods. We actually did multiple podcasts. We made a special trip because we wanted to see the two broods combine. And so a dear friend of mine, you know, from 30 years, she and I got on a plane and came to Chicago and went out and explored your parks looking for these cicadas and listening in the woods and just being a part of that. You know, I've done a lot of hiking in my own backyard. You know, I know Maria, you and I were talking about you're in Massachusetts and I'm in New Hampshire, and there's certainly many beautiful places to discover with trees and water running and natural beauty, but I think we can find that no matter where we are, that love of nature. What do you do to sort of fuel your passion for the outdoors, that sense of outdoors as the place that you can find freedom and joy?

SPEAKER_03 5:29

I well, I'm also a big proponent of urban ecology and the idea that you can find these spaces anywhere, pretty much. You know, if you look around, it uh people that live in New York City, Central Park is just a mecca for birders. Yes, you know, you don't have to be in a national park in some really remote area to experience these connections. So I have a patch of woods behind my house that thankfully is conservation land. And so although I live in Worcester, which is the second largest city in New England, I have coyotes and bobcats and the occasional bear, you know, roaming in my backyard and all kinds of birds, owls, and whatnot. And it's just, I just love it. It's wonderful to you, like I said, you don't have to go that far to observe and to be a part of it. Just get yourself outside, you know.

SPEAKER_00 6:19

I I think that's such a great point that Maria made. And it's something that I firmly believe in and live too, because you know, for a long time I lived in Chicago. Now I'm in Evanston, which is just north of Chicago and a little bit more suburban, and I'm very close to Lake Michigan. But the idea of nature, this concept of nature, number one, of being other and has to be something like pure and completely intact. Like, that's not, you know, number one, there are so few places in the world, and especially in this country, and certainly like the Midwest where I live, that have not been touched by humanity in some way, either directly or indirectly, like through something like climate change. And then, you know, not everybody, like many people and more all the time, like don't have access to certain types of green spaces, you know, even a forest preserve. And I think, you know, it's urban environments have actually an incredible amount of biodiversity. It's of course going to be different and less than than you would find, you know, someplace that's more intact and has less, you know, human population. But, you know, that's really important for people to know that, you know, no, no matter where they are, they can find this connection if they don't have a house and yard, if you're living in an apartment like most people do. You know, like it's should people should know how to access it and understand that it's not this thing that's outside of them and outside of where they live.

SPEAKER_02 8:12

I was in New York City a couple of weeks ago, and I took myself for a walk on a Saturday morning, and I brought myself to Central Park because I needed trees and I needed to roam, and I was in the ramble, and I was so impressed with the sheer number of people that were out there in pockets birding. And the diversity of the people who were out there in terms of age, in terms of, you know, nationality, gender, the whole nine yards, they were really cool intergenerational groups that were all looking up and looking around. And I thought that's sort of the goal is to get people out and get them paying closer attention.

SPEAKER_00 8:53

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 8:54

But I think sometimes we're afraid or we feel like, I don't know enough. How do I, how do I equip myself to go out? It's scary. I have no idea what that tree is, you know, I don't know what that bird is. And that's where I think that a book like yours, Just One Oak, really does a huge service because it's lyrical. So you can read it on so many different levels. You could literally read the simple verse and look at the pictures and gain something from it. And then if you want to dive deeper, you've got the vocabulary, you've got these very cool scientific factoids as you go on each page. I wanted to, you know, I feel like it's a great introduction to the forest and to the interdependency of a forest space. Can you talk a little bit about how that book was shaped and how you all did the research and made the decisions about what you wanted to include?

SPEAKER_03 9:47

Should I start?

SPEAKER_02 9:48

Yeah, of course.

SPEAKER_03 9:49

Yeah, okay. Well, I mean, I think one of the major inspirations for the book for me was uh Doug Talamy's book, The Nature of Oaks. And so, of course, I knew about, you know, some basic things about trees and a little bit about oak trees. But when I read that book, I was just, there were so many mind-blowing things. And that sort of sparked for me this idea of wanting to celebrate oak trees as keystone species because I knew, you know, on some level that they were, but the details, you know, starting with the microscopic creatures in the soil to all the insects and birds and whatnot. I mean, it's just amazing. And what I love about his work and and if you you're familiar with homegrown national park, I mean, it's really sort of like gr very grassroots. Like it doesn't matter if you don't have a yard, you can still like collect acorns and grow them in a pot and plant them somewhere. So there there are these things that we can do by yeah, just paying attention to our our surroundings. And I sort of I lost my train of thought there for a second, but the the idea that this has sort of a ripple effect, right? You know, there are so many things that are overwhelming when you think about climate change and the things that are happening, but there are little things that we can do to help feel a bit more empowered in that situation. And, you know, if you if you are fortunate enough to have a yard or a garden, you know, plant native species so that you're attracting the pollinators. And, you know, if you leave the leaves in in the fall, because there are so many creatures that are are living there and overwintering. And they're there are just little sort of tips that you can you can do. And if you don't have a yard, you know, there are things in your community that you can do, like maybe in communal spaces spaces, like in a in a church, sorry, in a like a school garden, right? Or on the grounds of of a place of worship or other community spaces, you know, like instead of I I lived in a place, so I think we we also talked about being from Virginia. So I lived in northern Virginia in a town called Leesburgh.

SPEAKER_02 11:59

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 12:00

I know it well. It's very cookie-cutter, and I was so depressed there because they were constantly cutting trees down to build strip malls, to build housing. You know, I know we need houses, but without sort of any sort of sustainable plan. So I used to like walking my dog in the neighborhood, and there were these beautiful burr oak trees. So they cut them all down because they were ripping up the sidewalks. And I'm like, the roots are still there. You're not doing anything. You're just destroying trees and planting new ones that you're gonna have to rip out in another 10 years when they get too big. It's just this sort of not having any forethought or any plan, and it's just really depressing when you think about that. But there are there are ways that we can sort of in our own small way try to contribute to conservation.

SPEAKER_00 12:48

I think like Maria, well, I know for a fact because we talked about this, um, I was also deeply affected by Doug Ptolemy's book, The Nature of Oaks. I had come to oak biology from a very personal place, which was, yeah, you know, I spent a lot of time exploring our forest preserves around where I live, starting, you know, maybe around a few years before the pandemic. And then, of course, like so many people during the pandemic, spending even more time. And one particular preserve I got to know very well had a lot of 200 to 250-year-old burr oaks and red oaks in it. And it was, I was like, how is it that I've lived my whole life in this area, this suburban area? And I never knew like we had trees this old around here. It's just so incredible. And then, of course, that led to like, well, what kind of oak trees are these? And like, and then wanting to find more information. And then about seven years ago, so many of these mature oaks started dying. Very few of them are left in this particular preserve. And this is happening like all over the Midwest, you know, places like in Nebraska that have massive burr oaks. And then here where I live, it's it's largely red oaks and burr oaks, but I think the red oaks are getting hit harder anyway. So that led me to like, okay, you know, this not panic, but just this like this grief. Just like, you know, we're not even like in Maria was talking about, like, it's one thing, it's one thing to see people cutting these trees down. That's devastating. This is a, you know, like part of like it really, it was human-caused. It is human-cause and people like Doug Ptolemy will will confirm this, you know, through climate change, through introduced pathogens and all this stuff that I've learned since then. But so I am kind of doing my own research. And then, you know, Maria and I were working on fungi grow. And then she kind of at some point, like, I'm working on a manuscript. Yeah, when I was like, oh my gosh, oak trees. Like, we have to like, we have to talk about oaks. They're so important.

SPEAKER_03 15:18

And yeah, for all of all of those reasons that I mean, back when I was doing the research and the writing of Fungi Girl, we hadn't yet met. And I had Diana, because I had been a fan of her long time, fan of her work, and I had her in mind. So when she agreed to illustrate it, I was so delighted. And then we we met in person. We did some events together that year in 2023 in October. And you were showing me the I forget what kind of oak it is in your yard in the front yard.

SPEAKER_00 15:48

Well, in in the front yard, that's a hybrid oak before I knew what I was doing. Yeah. We have a bur oak in our back, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 15:57

Okay. We were talking about oaks, and I was like, incidentally. I haven't home. So yeah, and you went when you have you know, someone that you connect with, I love her work. It's just beautiful to look at. She brings so much joy and there's tenderness and the details are amazing. And it's just, you know, I just feel lucky that I get to work with, you know.

SPEAKER_02 16:23

Absolutely. Well, let's can we talk through a page and just kind of talk about the process that went into creating that page in terms of the detail? Do you all have a favorite page that you like to share?

SPEAKER_03 16:35

I don't know if I have a favorite because I love them all, you know, different things. I I guess maybe I'll say that one thing I love about what Diana does in all her work is she always I say I use it as a verb, peoples her pages with these little creatures. So whether it's a snail or a centipede or a rabbit, you know, they're always they're very much a part of the landscape. So, you know, I love the I love the the close-up of the acorn weevils, you know, drilling their little holes into the acorns. And on the other part of the spread is the ants that are climbing. So it's a house and a home. And yeah, I think one of the themes that I write about a lot is home. And I think Diana also I think that resonates with her. And that's I that that sort of coziness I feel is something that she brings to all of her work. Not just the projects that we've done together, but like little land, the same, you know, that's a space that's like that is a home for creatures and a home for people. You know, this idea of what home is is pretty crucial. But did you want to go into more detail like about the illustrations for that particular?

SPEAKER_02 17:50

Maybe let's I'm just thinking maybe, or you pick one. Sure. I'll I'll pick a page then. I mean, I'm happy to pick one too. Yeah. I mean All right. How about I pick this one? Because I like woodpeckers and I've been noticing all of the holes drilled. So it's the picture, it says, or the page says just one oak drilled by woodpeckers and filled with acorns becomes a granary. And you've got one, two, three, four different woodpeckers, and there's tons and tons of little holes everywhere. And then the second page says a winter food supply. Then you've got your small factoid found in the western United States. Acorn woodpeckers are social birds that live together in family groups and cooperatively raise their young. Beginning in autumn, they they drill holes in granary. Sorry, I've got old eyes. Granary trees, adding more holes in acorns each season for winter storage. A single tree may have as many as 50,000 acorn-filled horns. Holes.

SPEAKER_00 18:52

I just want 50,000 holes. Say, like after you know, listening to you read that out loud. I mean, the genius of the genius and beauty of Maria's writing and prose is that, you know, you have that, you know, the the short prose on the left-hand page. And it's like, I when I read her manuscripts, you know, both in the case of this book and fungi grow, I don't like, I know exactly like the her ability to get across the essentials so beautifully and so succinctly. And then me as a you know, very visual person, like it, I know exactly what I need to do, is I think is just so I really admire that about her writing. So that's much. Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 19:48

And likewise, I feel like you always bring the details, you elevate whatever I've done and bring it to another level. And uh for that particular spread, so one year for my husband's sabbatical, we lived in San Diego. And the landscape and the flora and the fauna are so different there than in the on the east coast. And we took a trip east to Mount Laguna, and my husband and daughter were gonna go look at the stars at night, and the dog and I were gonna hang out in the cabin while they had their father-daughter time. And we we pull up to the cabin and I noticed these trees with all these holes and acorns. I'm like, what is going on? Because these are birds on the, you know, in the western part of the U.S., I had never seen them before. And then I saw one peeking its head out of a hole. So it was a discovery moment for me because I had never seen these birds before. And then there was a really funny, I have it on my website under the on the activities page, an article where an exterminator had been called to this home because maggots were coming out of the wall. And so they cut a hole in the wall and like thousands of acorns came flowing into the room because an acorn woodpecker somehow mistook the house or started storing the acorns in the house. It's just that it opens the wall and they it's just like a river of acorns that flow into the room.

SPEAKER_02 21:10

So it's just you know, that poor woodpecker must have been so frustrated when it couldn't get back to the acorns too.

SPEAKER_03 21:19

But amazing creatures, right? Right. And I love everything that Diana always brings to the table, you know.

SPEAKER_00 21:28

And I love that, like in bringing up this particular spread and like what Maria just said, like living, you know, outside of you know, where she grew up, moving to the West Coast, which has yes, very different habitats and and species for fauna than you know what both her and I are so familiar with. And like I really enjoyed doing the spread that had the javelina family because again, it's like you know, when you You have a keystone species like oaks that have, you know, been evolving for millions of years. I mean, they can be found in so many different types of environments. It's not necessarily like, you know, the grand old oak that you would see, you know, in in the northeastern US or maybe in the UK. Like there's places, you know, down in Texas. And, you know, like Maria's talking about on the West Coast, you have these really unique oak species with these very unique floral-faunal relationships. That's really, really cool.

SPEAKER_03 22:36

Yeah. And I like how, you know, the different spreads reflect the different habitats and the different creatures that live in those environments. You know, whether it's a dry desert one like with the javelinas or something else, you know.

SPEAKER_02 22:50

Ah, it's well, and I was thinking as I was looking at the book, from an educator's point of view, there are so many different ways you could use this. It makes a good read aloud with younger children, and you would adapt the facts to suit your audience and how many of them you would share at different points. But it also works really well as you age up in elementary and middle school because you could really use this book as a launch point to dive deep into Keystone species, into climate change, into various habitats and environments, into the uh webs that connect different species. And so I found that it's very rich science and you get lured in by the pictures, you get lured in by the lyrical text before you realize that wow, I'm taking a deep dive and I'm really learning some interesting things that maybe will help me the next time I go outside to look at the world a little bit more with different eyes.

SPEAKER_00 23:48

Well, and another thing that I love about Maria tackling this subject is, you know, when people, if they do know what a keystone species is, I think they typically associate that with a type of animal and a charismatic animal at that, you know, something like a tiger or a pant, you know, things like that. And I think not only in our society do we have sort of this nature blindness, but especially we have plant blindness. And so I think it's one of the things that's very unique about just one oak. And again, you know, being very inspired, both of us being very inspired by Doug Ptolemy, who is really, I think, done a very deep dive on this and is a legitimate scientist, is, you know, not just animals, but plants are very important anchoring species. And it's it, it's an ecosystem and a habitat in of itself. You know, it's uh this living organism. And I think it's really easy for us to look at, you know, trees and plants and just like it's a bunch of green.

SPEAKER_02 25:02

So and not pick out the individuals. Absolutely. We're gonna take a very short break, and when we come back, we're gonna get to know Maria and Diana and a little bit more about their adventures in learning. Imagine a space where curiosity drives innovation, where empathy fuels collaboration, and where learning feels less like a task and more like an adventure. My message isn't about adding more to your plate, it's about changing how you see the plate entirely. I'm Dr. Diane Jackson Schnorr, and through the power of purposeful play, I equip leaders, educators, and organizations with the tools you need to unlock creative problem solving, deepen human connection, and build resistant ecosystems of empathy and innovation. Attendees will walk away not just inspired but empowered, with immediately usable strategies to spark curiosity in teams, to lead with empathy, and to infuse learning into their everyday cultures. You'll learn how play isn't child's work, it's the secret weapon of the world's most effective leaders and change makers. This is not a feel-good talk that fades by Monday morning, it's a movement. A shift in how we engage people, solve problems, and lead meaningful change. My talks and workshops are shaped by decades of experience in education and a transformative message that connects across sectors. Whether your audience is corporate, educational, or nonprofit, they'll leave ready to rethink what's possible, both personally and professionally. Because when we learn and lead through play, we don't just change organizations, we change the world. Check it out at drdianadventures.com. So welcome back to the Adventures and Learning Podcast. During this section, I like to get to know our guests a little bit better. And I thought I would give you each a chance to sort of talk about how you came to do the things that you do now. Because you weren't always a published author and illustrator. So how did you get to that point? People always find those origin superhero stories interesting.

SPEAKER_03 27:17

Do you want to go first, Diana? Or I mean, I don't know. I guess I I could start. So I I think, you know, as a kid, I would write poetry and and I was a very shy kid who liked to spend a lot of time outside in nature. We grew up one of my favorite houses that we lived in in Keene, New Hampshire was near a farm. So there was a cornfield that we would play hide and seek in, you know, when the stalks were tall. And we'd go skating when there were little puddles there, and there were cows across the street. One of the most amazing things was the farmers tapped the trees and there was a sugar house. So we'd go out of our house house like in the late February winter morning, and you could smell the cotton candy clouds coming out of the roof. And the farmers were nice, they let us hang out while they this giant vat of sap boiled to syrup. And so nature was pretty much my playground. And that was the place that I always felt at home. But I didn't really think writing could be a job. You know, nowadays, if kids are fortunate enough, they have authors and illustrators going to their schools and visiting them. But back in the olden days, when I was a kid, we didn't have anybody coming into our school, so I didn't really think it was a like a legitimate job. So it was kind of sort of a something that I always wanted to do, but didn't really think I could. And fast forward to when I had my daughter, and like a lot of people, just reading my favorite books from childhood and re-reading the stuff that was out at the time, it sort of just rekindled that dream, like, hey, this is kind of what I always wanted to do, and what am I waiting for? Sort of thing. And so that's kind of how I got on the road to decide that I wanted to be an author and a children's book author at that. So sort of maybe a typical thing. And then it took, you know, a long time to to perfect my craft and to find an agent before my any of my manuscripts sold. And it's just, you know, it's a hard road because you really have to be resilient. There's a ton of rejection, and it's it it would have been pretty easy to give up. You know, it's it's discouraging. And so you get those, those, you know, you'd back when we used to get rejection letters in the mail. You know, right. Before email, you know, there'd be like these glimmers of hope, like about what the editor liked, even if they rejected the project that, you know, sort of kept you going. And yeah, and then once I've I got an agent and sold some books, and at least visibility-wise, it becomes a little bit easier, but it's still the same, you're still still get garnering many rejections along the way. But I think for me, it was just the idea of wanting having these these stories or this like my first nonfiction book was Coyote Moon. And I had this coyote encounter that was amazing. And that's kind of what the was the basis for this story. And it was, I was living in Waltham, Mass at the time, which is a very, you know, part of Greater Boston, very densely populated suburban area. And here was this coyote that looked more like a wolf. It was it was like a magical sort of spiritual experience. And so I had that, and I just really wanted to, you know, I just kept trying to make it be the best thing that it could be. And that that sort of kept me going, this idea that I needed to get this out there, you know, kind of thing. And so yeah, I think that this the same kinds of things, you know, this these connections that we have with nature, with other creatures. And for me, also, you know, domestic, I love dogs. So my fiction books tend to be about dogs, um, even though I don't have one right now. But you know, just this idea of wanting to share these things with with readers and feeling fortunate that I'm able to do that and to work with amazing people like Diana in the process.

SPEAKER_02 31:14

So And I love the fact that you're channeling your observations and your life experiences into both fiction and nonfiction that you can share with kids. I think that that's an important thing to remember is that we're all gifted with these opportunities to build connections with nature, with one another, with the world. And how do we connect those in storytelling, whether it's through writing or art or just talking with each other?

SPEAKER_03 31:43

Yeah. I feel like I'm sort of how do I say this? The inner child in me is coming out all the time when I'm writing. That child that's still intact, that was amazed by being out in the woods by herself and exploring, looking under rocks, climbing trees and doing all these things. I mean, I'm like tapping into that constantly when I'm writing. And so I think that joy and wonder and curiosity is what is coming out.

SPEAKER_02 32:10

I love that. And Diana, we want to hear about your adventures and learning as well. I have to tell you, as I was looking at your bio, I realized that my daughters are gonna be really mad that I'm talking to you right now. My daughter Miranda was a huge Benedict Society fan. And so that was one of those books that I remember being put in her hands. And she has read every single book in the series, obsessed over it for years. When she finds out I talked to one of the illustrators, she's gonna be so mad. But you've also worked with my friend Meg Fleming, who I roomed with in South Africa when we went with children's book creators for conservation. Meg was my roomie. And so I was like, it's such a small world. So tell us about you.

SPEAKER_00 32:56

Well, that's so funny that you mentioned the Mysterious Benedict Society because those were some of the first book illustration work that I did. Because prior to that, I was uh I wasn't doing a lot of illustration jobs. I was doing my you know, my own personal work. I was designing and screen printing posters for bands, which is largely what my homework does. And I think, you know, doing those posters, a lot of people end up seeing those posters. And that's how it led me to getting, you know, some of my first book illustration jobs. And like with the Mysterious Benedict Society, you know, that first book is illustrated by the incomparable Carson Ellis. Um and then I think she she moved on to she had, you know, her and her husband were were working on their own books. And so I was asked to step in and I'm really grateful for those books. And so from there, you know, for a long time, I I did not have an agent. I didn't really seek it out. I'm independent to a fault. So when I was approached by my agent, Andrea Morrison, I I was, you know, it was really, I was a little nervous, I think, just because again, I have this white-knuckled, like, I can do it all myself. And it's just been it's been the greatest thing. And then having the opportunity to work on picture books, that's really what you know, working with her has brought me. And I have really enjoyed it. I've always have admired the genre of picture books, and I I do think it is a very distinct art form, both in in word and image. And in and, you know, yes, for children, but also for adults. Absolutely. I think it's a really important way, like and especially like this book that we're talking about, just one oak. You know, I'm always thinking about, you know, not just the children, but you know, the caretakers who are reading this along with them. And, you know, it should be engaging for for everyone. And it's such a great way to get, you know, pretty complicated concepts across, whether it's, you know, something that's emotional or like sophisticated science. So I I love the format. And so in my work, my personal work as an artist and illustrator has always bent towards the narrative. So I like, you know, whether it's in a book or not, I I like work that has a narrative going on in it. It doesn't have to be something specific, but an element where people, you know, part of their enjoyment or connection to work is them piecing stuff together because we're a narrative species, we're a storytelling species. I feel like that is deeply, deeply embedded in us in the human experience, uh, whether it's visual music, writing, all of those things. And we need those things, I think. Absolutely. And maybe sometimes society gives them credit for it.

SPEAKER_02 36:24

Yeah, a lot of the work I've been doing recently is working with teachers and kids to connect storytelling and play and doing that through the vehicle of science and STEM, because they all work really well together. And you're absolutely right. It's not just something for children, it's something we need desperately as adults as well. And I think the more that we can amplify that and model it in our own lives, the better off we all are.

SPEAKER_03 36:53

I I learned so many things from reading picture books, other people's picture books, you know, because I sort of gravitate toward the nature and science ones anyway. And then I learned so many interesting things, you know, and then that can be a stepping stone for someone that's interested in particular thing, particular thing to explore more deeply, also. But like Diana said, it's just it's an art form. So people that aren't part of this community that think, oh, it's just easy. I can just go out in five minutes write something, or you know, now with AI, God knows. This is like this is like a coffee table book. Like you could leave it on the coffee table. It's a beautiful piece of art that, you know, you can just open up into the middle and you know.

SPEAKER_00 37:35

Yeah. Yeah. And I think that that that idea of a picture book as an art object and being treated as such is is wonderful. And I just hope that people, there's many people who continue to feel the same way that we do. And I I don't want to get into a big conversation about AI because I feel like that's all they do these days. But even without AI, I think we've all seen examples of, well, and I think in particular with picture books, as Maria was bringing up, it it's, you know, it's something, it's a skill. It's a there's definitely a learning curve to it in terms of like even if you were, you know, like I've been a writer my whole life and like I can write a picture book. If you've never done that before, it it takes a while to understand the format and what works. And the same thing, of course, with illustration and and and creating images. But I think we've all seen picture books that, you know, aren't so great and are obviously done by people who just like, you know, how many people come up to you, like, I've got an idea for a picture book. I mean, it's not the same thing, but it's kind of like, you know, when movie directors complain about like, you know, everybody trying to give them a script or, you know, something like that. And it's like, it doesn't necessarily mean like it's not it, it's accessible to everybody. I think that's it. It's a very accessible um way of communicating and making things, but accessible doesn't necessarily mean that it doesn't take a lot of skill and time and effort.

unknown 39:11

Right.

SPEAKER_02 39:11

Well, and I think it's the thoughtfulness and the intentionality that you can tell when that kind of thought, that kind of skill has gone into it. And whether it's telling the story of a keystone species like an oak tree, or it's, you know, creating a story about a pocket bear or doing a biography about David Attenborough. You know, there are there's room for all of these different stories. And it takes that time and understanding your audience, understanding who you're writing for, who, you know, as you said, you're writing for the kids, you're also writing for their adults, particularly in the read aloud realm. And then there are people like me who just love to read kids' books better than grown-up books.

SPEAKER_03 39:57

Me too. I want you to yeah, me too.

SPEAKER_02 40:01

So if you were to pick your favorite place to get into nature, where would it be and why?

SPEAKER_03 40:11

Maybe you could start, Diana. Do you have a favorite place? I'm trying to think of. I mean, I just like the woods behind my house.

SPEAKER_00 40:19

Yeah. I mean, I think I would sure. I mean, if somebody came to me as like, would you like to go to Patagonia? I would be like, absolutely. I would be like, yeah, sure. But I think if anything, you know, over the years, you know, there was a point in my life where I really wanted to move out of the Midwest, like in my my twenties and early 30s. And I made the choice to stay here for because of certain family dynamics, and and the same with my husband. And then, you know, you end up putting down roots, and then that that window of moving and and starting over, it's not that it's you can't do it, but like the cost of doing it in all realms, not just financial, emotional, and and everything. It's harder, they get it's harder and it's more complicated. And I think after, you know, kind of realizing that and being like, okay, you know, I'm I'm here and I'm gonna be here for a while for the long haul, I've got to learn to love where I live. No, there aren't mount mountains here, oceans or like orcas, you know, or massive trees. And I think that has been starting on that journey has been so profoundly rewarding and connecting and and healing for me, learning about the place where I live and I grew up because I didn't learn about it here. I didn't learn about it in school. Nobody talks about this stuff, and just being like, why? Yeah, like why? So my favorite place, I think, to to to access nature is wherever I am at. And right now it's here, northeastern Illinois, and 20 minutes from my house, or you know, like going to the lakefront, which is about a mile and a half from my house. And and I'm always finding new things, you know, new plants, animals, insects that I had never come across before.

SPEAKER_03 42:38

So yeah, I mean, I I I'm a big proponent of just again like backyard birding. You know, there's so many species that I see at different times of the year coming through our yard. I was delighted, you know, to see the first hummingbird a couple of weeks ago migrant ruby-throated hummingbird feeding on our rhododendrons, you know? Yeah. So it's I also, you know, kind of plan vacations or that kind of thing around whatever natural spaces are. Like I've been to, you know, we went to Iceland because I wanted to see auroras, but then just seeing the beautiful topography, or it just it's such a different landscape. You know, there aren't a lot of trees there because it's what have of its volcanic origins, or I'm planning a trip to in September, we're going to Newfoundland. And I, you know, the coastal environment, it it's just gorgeous looking. You know, so uh because the ocean is a little bit farther from me as well. Yeah. Come. Yeah. So I I think again, like and there are these this patch of woods in my backyard that I can access. There's a small window that I can go from my backyard to the nature trail, which is just like a A loop that's around a mile, but then this time of year, now all the trees have leafed out. The poison ivy is, you know, all over the place, and ticks are created. There's so many ticks that you can do. Yeah, it's bad. So bad. So, and then the the other way to access it is on a road that's pretty hazardous because there's no sidewalk. So I was like, I don't want to really take my life in my hands. So yeah, and just down the street, there's a little pond. So you I love there's a a piece of dead wood, and I have a book coming out on dead wood in a couple of years, and I always see the turtles basking on there, and there's usually a great blue heron and a couple of mallard ducks, and it's just these, yeah, like you get to sort of know the creatures that are in your own backyard. And I'm always amazed when there's some new one that happens to appear. Like last year for the first time, I saw a scarlet tanager in our backyard, which I hadn't seen before. And so there's always somebody new coming through, and it's exciting. I love it.

SPEAKER_02 45:00

Yeah, when we lived in Virginia, there was a trail that I would walk every day that, you know, it took a mile to get to it from my house, but it was behind a museum and I knew it intimately. I knew where the fox den was, I knew where the nurse log was, and I would sit there and just enjoy. I would watch the muskrat and the frogs and count them. And that was one of the hardest things when we moved, honestly, was to leave that place. It broke my heart to leave the MSV trails behind. But that's been one of the exciting opportunities as well, is trying to find that bit here. Because I've traveled all over the world and I love nature. And wherever I am, I find it. We're in a city for the first time. And so it's been a little bit of the urban finding things in the neighborhood and looking, you know, I'm I'm picking up now where the birds are, where the possum and the raccoon live, that kind of stuff. But I've also found within a 10-mile drive, there's this beautiful place called Pulpit Rocks. I have yet to figure out what the pulpit is, but it's this lovely walk through the trees. And it's it's just forest and soft pine needles and shadow and sun dappling. There are lots of woodpeckers, and I even found my first frogs. And so that was sort of that moment that I thought, okay, I can be at home here. This this could be a home place. What are the next projects you all have coming out? Or what are you working on right now?

SPEAKER_03 46:30

Well, I've just been busy mostly with promotion stuff because I had just one oak come out as well as another book called Puffins in April. And uh so on I put the project that I was working on, which is on plants. So that's I'm hoping to be able to get back to that. But then my next book doesn't come out until 2028. It's going to be illustrated by Jamie Green, and it's called From Forest to Sea, A Dead Tree's Legacy. And it's about there are lots of books about, you know, dead wood on the forest floor and nurse logs and things like that. But this follows a tree that becomes a bridge. So, like one of my favorite accounts to follow is a guy that lives here in a little bit west of me in Massachusetts, and it's just a log that crosses a stream and all the creatures that cross over it or stop on it, you know, like a heron will hang out on there and the coyotes and the bear and their cubs and the the bobcats. It's just amazing. So then, and then the tree eventually ends up on the ocean floor and becomes, you know, so all the habitats that evolve as this tree makes its journey from the forest. That sounds awesome.

SPEAKER_02 47:41

How about you, Diana? I love that.

SPEAKER_00 47:44

I have my second author illustrator book coming out in fall of 2027 called The Acorn's Gift. Still more oak content. And it's there's some science in it, but it's, you know, it's a fictional story of a squirrel family that loses their home during a storm, which is a mature oak. And one of the squirrel children, her name is Fern. She has to go on this long journey underground to find the mother tree. And ask the mother tree about finding a new home for her family. And she gets some help along the way, but it's really about how squirrels are involved in regenerating oak forests, but also about family and and the importance of how a mature intact ecosystem is connected and you know, uh through these networks underground of mycelium and yeah.

SPEAKER_02 48:50

Very cool. All right, last question for today, and it's the one I always end the podcast with. What currently brings you hope? It's taking longer and longer pauses for people when I ask that question, but I do think it's it's still essential, especially in the times we're in.

SPEAKER_00 49:08

It it is. I think you can always find hope. I mean, yeah, things are very dark right now. But I I I know it's kind of a cliche, but I really do this this generation, you know, my daughter's generation, you know, she just finished her freshman year high school. She and her generation give me a lot of hope. I feel like they are they're the most tech savvy in some ways, but they also like, from what I've seen, they're they're pushing back too. And yeah, I think it it's young people that give me hope.

SPEAKER_03 49:50

Yeah, I think the the audience for our books also, right? I mean, I think one of the reasons we do what we do is is about empowerment also. You know, you want to engage kids, but you also want them to feel like things aren't hopeless, right? So what are the small things that you can do to inspire kids? Like I'm hoping our books inspire, you know, the next generation of environmental stewards, the next generation of scientists, poets, artists that are going to help, you know, find solutions for the problems that we have. So yeah, I think young people, just community, being able to connect with others, and yeah, it can it can sometimes be quite hard. But I just find a lot of, you know, just even just finding just those moments of joy, like watching birds. And I, you know, the other day just a Phoebe landed, and it's and it's not a very remarkable looking bird, but when they return to my yard, I don't know, it just makes me so happy. She hangs out on like the little shepherd's hook, flicking her tail, dives down to catch some insects, and it's just, I don't know, it just makes me feel so happy, my scene.

SPEAKER_02 51:02

Absolutely. I think connecting to nature and having conversations like this and being able to share stories, that brings me hope. Maria and Diana, thank you so much for joining us today on the Adventures in Learning podcast. It has been such a pleasure, and I will be dropping links in the show notes. Please go out and order just one oak. It's just out now, and I guarantee educators and families, you're going to find this a valuable member of your libraries.

SPEAKER_03 51:31

Thank you so much for having us.

SPEAKER_02 51:32

So much. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 51:34

This was lovely.

SPEAKER_01 51:37

You've been listening to the Adventures in Learning podcast with your host, Dr. Diane. If you like what you're hearing, please subscribe, download, and let us know what you think, and please tell a friend. If you want the full show notes and the pictures, please go to drdianeadventures.com. We look forward to you joining us on our next adventure.