Rewilding, Restoration, and Hope: Kevin Jolliffe and the Wild Tomorrow Story

What does it look like when conservation becomes a long view, a daily practice, and a promise to the future? In Episode 198 of the Adventures in Learning Podcast, Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor welcomes Kevin Jolliffe, reserve manager at Wild Tomorrow, for a rich conversation about rewilding, restoration, community partnership, and the patience it takes to care for a landscape over time.

In Part 3 of the Wild Tomorrow series, Kevin shares how a childhood rooted in nature grew into a career in conservation that has taken him around the world and back again. From sea turtles in the Seychelles to habitat restoration in South Africa, he reflects on what it means to steward land, manage wildlife, and think in terms of generations rather than quick fixes.

This episode also continues the Wild Tomorrow story through the lens of balance and hope. Kevin and Dr. Diane talk about what it means to let nature lead when appropriate, step in when human action caused the harm, and support the surrounding community as part of the larger conservation mission. If you’ve loved the earlier Wild Tomorrow conversations with co-founders John Steward and Wendy Hapgood, and community conservation manager Aphiwe Notshaya, this episode deepens that story in a meaningful way.

Chapters

• 01:19 A childhood in nature
• 02:45 Studying conservation and meeting his wife
• 03:33 Work in the Seychelles and the Bahamas
• 04:56 How Kevin joined Wild Tomorrow
• 05:56 What a reserve manager does
• 06:53 A "typical day" on the reserve
• 08:42 Rewilding the land
• 10:15 Man-made problems and nature’s balance
• 13:05 Species brought back to the reserve
• 14:37 Anti-poaching and community partnership
• 16:29 Working with local herders and land use
• 19:32 Nursery work and growing trees
• 21:22 Reconnecting with nature
• 24:23 Quiet moments with hippos
• 27:01 How to care about conservation
• 29:34 Thinking in generations, not instant fixes
• 30:24 Favorite trees, birds, and animals
• 32:02 What gives Kevin hope

About Kevin Jolliffe

Kevin was born in Pietermaritzburg, South Africa. His early holidays with his aunt and uncle in Hluhluwe sparked his love for Zululand and determined the career he would later pursue. As the youngest of five siblings and the odd man out with the neighbourhood children, Kevin developed a passion for nature. Afternoons were spent exploring the Botanic Gardens where he honed his bird watching skills, collected butterflies and developed an interest in plants, including collecting and growing orchids at the age of seven, becoming the youngest orchid grower in South Africa for over 10 years. Kevin is currently writing and illustrating a book on the orchids of KZN and his vast knowledge has been put to good use while working with the Pollination Ecology department at the University of KwaZulu-Natal. 

Kevin was always determined to work in nature conservation. He attained a National Diploma in Nature Conservation from the Cape Peninsula University of Technology, where he met his conservationist wife. They have been working together ever since. He has worked at government run, Ndumo Game Reserve as well as a number of private reserves in KZN, the Western and Eastern Cape, Swaziland and Limpopo provinces. He was the conservation manager for Cousine Island in the Seychelles for five 5 years conducting in-depth monitoring of nesting Hawksbill sea turtles, sea birds and endangered land birds. From there he took up the position of landscape manager in the Bahamas, before returning to South Africa to manage a private nature reserve in the Western Cape. He is now proudly Wild Tomorrow Fund’s Reserve Manager at The Greater Ukuwela Nature Reserve.

Links and resources

• Learn more about Dr. Diane's Adventures in Learning: drdianadventures.com
• Explore Wild Tomorrowand follow on Instagram and LinkedIn
• Listen to the Wild Tomorrow Series, featuring John Steward and Wendy Hapgood and Aphiwe Notshaya
• Join Wild Tomorrow for the Junior Wildlife Crime Scene Detective Event on July 20, 2026

Transcript

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SPEAKER_01 0:27

He's deeper than that. He knows about everything, whether it's orchids or crabs, the Indian Ocean, or the giraffes running in the backyard. Kevin is your person, so I'm so excited to have this conversation with him. Wonder, curiosity, connection. Where will your adventures take you? I'm Dr. Diane, and thank you for joining me on today's episode of Adventures in Learning. Kevin, welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_00 0:58

Thank you so much. I'm happy to be with you guys.

SPEAKER_01 1:02

So, Kevin, you truly are one of the most broad-minded naturalists I know. Like your interests are very wide-ranging. How did you come to be with Wild Tomorrow? But sort of what was it that got you into nature in the first place?

SPEAKER_00 1:19

I guess what got me into nature in the first place was being the youngest in the family by nearly 10 years and kind of the odd man out in the in the um nope being two years younger or two years older than all the other kids in the neighborhood. So I kind of learned to entertain myself and my parents, you know, the rest of the family are all nature lovers, so I uh I made myself a butterfly net and I got binoculars and a bird book and things, and so I learned how to entertain myself with nature, so to speak. You know, the family, you know, all enjoy gardening, so there was always a natural tendency to work in the garden and and get involved with plants and what have you. And that grew into obsession with orchids. But I think that general sort of interest in everything around me and nature was that was the spark. And then uh we were fortunate enough to live close to sort of the back of the local botanical gardens in in my hometown, which had a back entrance, you know, more sort of wild bush rather than tended gardens, which are down at the main interest. And so that was kind of the extension of the backyard. So it run around there and uh, you know, go and catch butterflies and collect birds, eggs and go fishing and do all sorts of things and exploring and you know, the things that kids should be doing these days.

SPEAKER_01 2:39

And then you went on to become you you went to sk to college to learn about this too, is that correct?

SPEAKER_00 2:45

That's correct, yeah. I went to uh to university and did a uh diploma in nature conservation uh for three years. That's where we met my wife and yeah, we've been together ever since. Yeah, that gave us a good grounding. It was hard work. We thought it was gonna be easy just learning about the birds and the bees, but that wasn't so. But we had a a really good grounding, you know, and we could we can pretty much study conservation anywhere we were.

SPEAKER_01 3:12

And you've traveled the world. You've left South Africa, you've traveled the world, and you've done work in all sorts of places on really fascinating and varied subjects. Because if I remember correctly, you've worked with sea turtles and you've done research on all kinds of other things before you came back. Is that right?

SPEAKER_00 3:33

That's correct. Yeah, we were given an amazing opportunity to uh go and work in the Seychelles, which we ended up staying about five years. We were the conservation managers on a small private island called Cuisine Island and absolute paradise, you know, full of sea turtles, one of the few places in the world where sea turtles come to nest during the day. Also, a lot of uh, you know, critically endangered land birds, a lot of seabirds. So it was fantastic, you know, like dream job sort of thing going going out there, uh doing a lot of sort of reef assessments and things. Yeah, that was you know fantastic. And then from there we went over to the Bahamas for two years as uh I was landscape manager for David Copperfield.

SPEAKER_01 4:17

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_00 4:18

And and that gave us the it's also another dream job, but uh it gave us the opportunity to to travel around the States a bit as well. So we we got to visit um Peru and you know, go up Machu Picchu and you know and sort of tick all the bucket list things we'd like to do and go and visit Alaska, you know. And childhood dream of mine was to see the the salmon run. So I got to see that and fish the salmon run.

SPEAKER_01 4:45

Oh, exciting.

SPEAKER_00 4:46

But it was fantastic. It gave us uh it gave us amazing opportunities to see, you know, part of the world.

SPEAKER_01 4:51

And how did you wind up working with John and Wendy and Wild Tomorrow?

SPEAKER_00 4:56

So uh interesting story, you know, I was actually at the time unemployed, had been working with the uh university, the local university, as a field technician with the pollination ecology department, literally being paid to go and look for orchids for them to study. And so when COVID hit, you know, they had to let me go. And so we were literally down to like the last couple of cents in the bank account, and then uh a friend of mine, actually the head of department at the university, I studied at. He found the the job application, and so I applied and um and I got the job. So I'm very, very happy. And and I've always wanted to work in this area. My aunt and uncle farmed in this area in the 1980s and 1990s. So I've got a special love for this particular area where we are. So it's it's fantastic to be here.

SPEAKER_01 5:49

And for those who don't know, what does a reserve manager do?

SPEAKER_00 5:55

It's like the million dollar question, and there's no easy answer. So um a lot of the work is maintenance work, so maintaining the integrity of the reserve, which is obviously your fences. So if your fences aren't good, then your animals could escape or poachers can get in. So part of my job is obviously infrastructure maintenance, staff management, security, so the anti-poaching aspect, as well as the land management or habitat management, and then the wildlife management and monitoring all falls under me. So yeah, it's quite a quite a diverse field that uh that I take care of. But uh, I don't feel like I work a day in my life. It's my my dream job.

SPEAKER_01 6:38

Which is a joy. So I was gonna say, maybe walk us through what and I know there are no typical days because every day is different on the reserve, but what might be a typical day?

SPEAKER_00 6:52

Um as you say, no day is the same and there's never a dull day in the bush. So if you might plan something or pop up to uh you know to disrupt your plans, but a typical day would be sort of checking in with the teams that I have. So I have, you know, a ranger team that are doing patrols, anti-poaching patrols. I've got a team that do uh maintenance work, so whether they trimming trees back on roads or trimming, you know, fences or spraying fences uh or fixing roads. And the alien plant team is obviously you know cutting and clearing alien invasive plants for for you know to improve our habitat and what have you. So most of it's sort of checking up on what's going on, checking if there's any issues that have cropped up. A big component is actually keeping the teams on the go, which means if they need certain things and equipment and things, you know, I can, you know, get into town and and get that just so that they the you know the mo the the momentum isn't slowing down, if that makes sense. So as long as they're equipped with what they need, you know, then then I'm happy. So it often means I'm running around doing a hundred things in a day, but everything on the ground is running smoothly.

SPEAKER_01 8:03

And on top of all of that, you're stopping to educate the random stray visitors like myself who pop up and ask questions too.

SPEAKER_00 8:12

Well, it's uh it's lovely to share knowledge. Obviously, I share what I know. I don't know everything, so but I love to share the knowledge and I'm and it's great to sort of share with what you know what we've done in the relatively short, you know, time span that I've been with the with the company, which is only you know just over five years. It's you know, I love to share share knowledge and you know, it's uh it's great to pass it on, and hopefully it gets passed on, you know, from others.

SPEAKER_01 8:41

Um There have been a lot of changes in the last five years too. I mean, so much of what you all started with was pineapple farms, right? And you're working on rewilding. How has the land begun to change and shift back?

SPEAKER_00 8:56

So yeah, so and and more portions of land have been added to the the original piece. So it's it's almost doubled since I've started, which is incredible. Some of the areas, the old original areas that are under pineapples, they they kind of restore themselves as long as you can keep your finger on it and you know and you you know can manage it accordingly, whether it's by fire or grazing. We we try to sort of speed up the process because man has destroyed many places. So if man can try and speed up the process, we'd be great. So that's the you know the rewilding project. So obviously with that, you know, get you get some undesirables coming in, so alien invasive species, so we try and keep those in check. We've got a a nursery that we started for the sand forest restoration work, which again is, you know, we'll plant these trees, but we'll never see them looking like trees in my generation. So it's really planning for way down in the future. So we have, you know, those those projects on the go, which are really sort of, you know, custodian projects, you know, how do we how do we leave a legacy for for the next generation to to carry on with? But nature will find a way of restoring itself as long as you can make sure the right things are in the right balance, and it's all about balance at the end of the day. But it it really is an incredible journey to be on.

SPEAKER_01 10:16

You know, and I remember you saying something to us when we were there that has stuck with me ever since. We were concerned about a giraffe who had metal in its leg. And, you know, we we were questioning you know what was going on, how do you manage that? And you were so good about that because I remember you you took the pictures that we had taken, and you were able to sort of explain what the balance was that if man has caused the problem, then man does everything we can to try to fix it. But if it's something that would have happened naturally in nature, then you let nature run its course. And I imagine that's a hard philosophy to be able to run all the time, but it sounds like it makes sense. You can't intervene in everything. Is that accurate? Did I get that right in terms of what I picked up from that?

SPEAKER_00 11:10

Yes, that's that's exact exactly it. You know, my my my view on it is that if we, you know, if it's caused by man, man should should intervene or should help to fix the problem, you know, if man caused the problem. But if it's a natural, a natural thing, then let nature take its course. In many cases, the animals do recover. They're incredibly resilient. But in some cases they don't. And and you have to take the big picture in, you know, do you have predators that could naturally, you know, would would naturally catch that animal because it would be slower being an injured animal or what have you. In the event that you don't have predators, then you you occasionally have to take that that hard decision and say, you know, for the for the for the benefit of the animal and to, you know, prevent it from you know, excessive suffering that it wouldn't normally have had if you had predators, you need to make that decision of, you know, potentially euthanizing those animals. Obviously that's a decision we don't take lightly. Particularly if it's a big sort of charismatic species like a giraffe. But that also you also need to look at you know, have we got a large number of giraffes? Is one loss going to significantly impact the rest of the population? And and those are all, you know, questions one has to ask beforehand. If you've got a good population and the impact is is very is very minimal. Do you have you know additional males or females? So you know, these decisions aren't made lightly, but also one has to remove emotion out of the decisions. Because you know, nature can be cruel and and that's that's something that that many people do struggle with. Um so yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:52

Especially children's authors and illustrators.

SPEAKER_00 12:57

Yeah, so um yeah, it's one of those things that uh that you you need to see it in its in its context.

SPEAKER_01 13:05

That makes a lot of sense. And you were part of sort of bringing the giraffes back to Wild Tomorrow and to the reserve. What species have sort of what species have you been able to bring back because of the work that you're doing? Because it's not just the big charismatic ones like the giraffes. There have been other populations that have come back as well.

SPEAKER_00 13:26

Yeah, so wild tomorrow brought back a number of species or reintroduced a number of species onto the property that should have been there. So I think giraffe is one of them, zebras, I think Ignala and Ampala had already been there. In my time, we brought on kudu, which was one of the species that weren't weren't present in the past and should have been there because the you know the niche occurred or was there but hadn't been filled. So that was the maze, you know, the major sort of missing link. But we've also done reintroductions of serval cats, you know, in the area, and we've had collars on them so we can you know track their movements, which is fantastic. But as you as you restore habitat, animals will move into that habitat that should be there. So as long as you know, once you can get that available habitat, the animals will move in. And if you can protect them from poaching, you know, or or any other aspects, then you know, those animals will uh will or should thrive in the in the environment if it's well managed.

SPEAKER_01 14:25

And how hard is it to protect them from poaching? Because I know that security is part of what you do as well. And how big is the poaching issue and what are the challenges?

unknown 14:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:37

So so touch wood, we we don't have a huge poaching issue. We thankfully don't have rhinos, although I would love to have rhinos, but they come with an with a with a a big um price tag with regards to the level of security they require. So you need to have armed guards, you know, patrolling day and night because it it attracts a different caliber of poacher, which are you know armed with firearms. The most of the poaching that we are dealing with are for bush meat. So they're coming in and they're setting snares, uh, which are wire nooses that they they put in the bush and and they're indiscriminate, so they'll catch whatever's in the area. And then, you know, then they will take that meat and they'll sell it in the community. So, you know, we get certain areas are more prone, you know, where they border onto the community. But compared to some of the other reserves we we get off very lightly, and that's also I think because we have a good relationship with our community. We we help them, we support a number of of crashes and an orphanage in the community. So we're doing our part and and we know who those poachers are. We we get the canine unit comes to help, we can track them right back to the houses they live in. So we know we know who they are. And just last week we managed to catch two of them red-handed. So, which is a great a great feather in the cap and and a great collaborative effort between my guys and the neighboring reserves and the the guys operating the drones and everything. So it was a a fantastic effort.

SPEAKER_01 16:14

And I imagine you you just alluded to working with the community. You employ so many people from within the community as well as part of what you're doing. I imagine that helps to build that strong relationship.

SPEAKER_00 16:29

Yes, that's correct. So we're trying as far as possible to employ anybody from the local community as close as possible to us. So I think we are a major employer in the area, apart from the other in the pineapple farms. And we try and help where we can. So I was recently helping the local herders, you know, cattle herders, they're trying to enlarge their, you know, area of grazing. And there's, you know, some sort of areas that are bush encroached, so the grasslands are getting smaller and smaller because, you know, uh fast growing trees are taking over these grasslands. So they've asked for help. So we've gone and given them advice as to, you know, which trees to to clear and which ones not to clear, and how to how to clear that that doesn't damage the grass, and also, you know, supply them with you know nap to you know, knapsack sprayers or backpack sprayers, correct chemicals that are will only kill, you know, the the the trees because they're they were already using chemicals, but they were they were killing everything. So just just a bit of you know upskilling if that makes sense. So they can see that we're we're not against them. You know, obviously we don't want to see habitat destroyed, but there's a way of of doing it where you have minimal impact for maximum reward and and you know, minimum effort for maximum reward at the end of the day.

SPEAKER_01 17:53

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SPEAKER_00 19:38

I think I think one of them would be the nursery that we've established, you know, for the sandforest trees, which started sort of in my backyard and mushroomed into a smaller nursery and now it's you know three times the size that it used to be. We must have close on 20,000 trees in there now. So that's that's kind of like uh my little pet project. It's my seventh nursery that I've established in my career, and hopefully the last one. But it's it's been very rewarding. You know, there's no there's no textbook on how to grow these trees. So it's kind of trial and error, and it's great to go out into the forest and see what's got fruit and you know, prep the seeds and plant the seeds. And it's always it's great to be able to plant something or watch it grow. That's uh I think that's probably my my favorite part.

SPEAKER_01 20:34

I love that. You know, you said something earlier that I've been thinking a lot about too, when you were talking about your own experiences as a kid and being out in nature and being connected to the world. I think that in so many ways we're disconnected these days. Particularly if you don't live in the bush, if you're living in a city or even in a town. I mean, you've seen America, so you you know what it looks like here. Parents are afraid and they don't let their kids go out and do the things that you did. How can we help them, I guess, first of all, become in touch with nature themselves? And second, loosen the reins a little bit to let their kids have that kind of childhood that I know your kids have had, my kids have had, and I would wish for every kid.

SPEAKER_00 21:22

I think it starts with kick your shoes off and walk on the grass and feel the sand and the mud between your toes and the grass under your feet. And just start getting grounded and just lie on the grass and listen to nature. Even if it's in the in the town or in the garden or in a park. Just lie and be quiet and listen to it. If you can get into the woods even better, just listen to the trees, you know, the the leaves rustling in the trees or the you know, the birds or something like that, and and you'll feel that calmness come over you. And I think that's the the disconnect that most people don't have. You know, you just switch your phone off. You'll survive without it. And and sit and be quiet and and and enjoy. You know. But I think a big thing take your shoes off. Get your feet on the grass and feet in the sand and the mud. You know, mud is clean dirt, not dirty dirt. You can wash it off. And that's really important. And you know, even when we used to go gardening or whatever, it is, you know, always or never wear gloves. It's always good to feel the soil in your hands. You know, feel that. Smell it. It's important. And we all need it. We all came from nature. We all need nature. And it's it has a very sort of restorative effect on people. Once you you're able to switch off and and sort of cut the cut the hustle and bustle of the world out, uh, we all need that at the end of the at the end of the day.

SPEAKER_01 22:48

Yeah, I've taken just sort of giving myself permission to just stop and declare, it's time for a nature emergency. And that's where you go, I have to sit and watch this dung beetle for five minutes. Or, you know, I have to just sit and look at the the flowers grow or listen to the blue jay on the wing or whatever it is. But by giving yourself permission to level it up to the same level of emergency that we put on our phones, it's like, nope, this is an emergency. I have to do this right now. Even if it's five minutes, it sort of adds that urgency to this is a priority and it makes a difference.

SPEAKER_00 23:28

Yeah. So I stayed at John and Wendy's place the other day, you know, when we were out for the Gala event uh last year, and on the top of their building there's a little garden. And when you when you walk on top there and in the little garden, I mean obviously all the trees had no leaves, but yeah, the the sound of the city is is sort of gone, or it feels gone. And I thought that's the that's like the little safe haven that everybody needs. Just go up there, sit and be quiet, and just listen. And you can hear the rustle of the leaves, and there's a few birds flying around, but that noise of the city seems to sort of dissipate below you. And I thought you, you know, you have to have those places where you can just zone out a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 24:15

And they exist everywhere. You just have to give yourself permission to find them.

SPEAKER_00 24:20

Yes, and I just and I just are there.

SPEAKER_01 24:24

I mean, they absolutely are everywhere. And I know one of the lessons I learned when I was in South Africa was never ever refuse an opportunity to go out on the truck with Kevin if he's going somewhere. My very favorite, I you know, my favorite thing wasn't on our schedule at all. And it was the day that you let John and Haley and I join you for a tour because you guys were doing the burning and you were checking out what had happened. And I'm so glad I hopped in the truck with you that day because that was the day that we found that raft of hippos and just sat on the bank, no camera, you know, hadn't brought the big camera that day, literally had just my phone, and we spent half an hour sitting on the bank watching hippos. And it was probably the most amazing experience of a host of amazing experiences. And it wasn't planned, it was just being with four people who were willing to sit and be quiet and listen. So thank you for that.

SPEAKER_00 25:23

Yeah, that's uh that's what's so amazing. Yeah, that that's what's so amazing, is that you never know what's going to be around the corner. But like you said earlier, you know, for me with sharing my knowledge. It's uh having you guys come out and you, you know, you're the sponges and and to see you guys sort of soaking it all up and asking questions and being, you know, engaged, you know, that that's great from my side. But it also we we see these animals or we see this uh you know every day. So we kind of get used to you know seeing the odd hippos here and there, but it's great to see it through your eyes, which is which is even even more you know special from my side, is it, you know, it it sort of grounds us as well because you sort of take a lot of these things for granted. We live in an amazing place and we see them every day, but you know, it's really cool to see the excitement from people that haven't seen giraffes or zebras or you know, all the inyala around. So it it's really exciting to be able to see the um the excitement in our visitors that come out.

SPEAKER_01 26:30

And it really is exciting. I know there were a couple of days where we were driving and we were like, Kevin, you have to stop. And you're like, it's just another niala. But we just we couldn't help ourselves because it was so fascinating. So if you could wave your magic wand and convince the rest of the world to care as much about nature and conservation as you do, how do we go about getting people to care like that?

SPEAKER_00 27:01

That's a difficult question because everybody's got their own, I won't say their own priorities, but their own idea of what they want to achieve. And, you know, not everybody has money to donate towards conservation, so they can, you know, they can do that. But, you know, time time can be, you know, donated to work in a conservation area, or even just if you're on board with the idea, you know, share the the idea with with everybody around you and say, hey, you know, there's a place that's doing a lot of good work. But I think also, you know, try and sort of live holistically, live within nature, you know, if you can, you know, those small decisions go a long way. You know, if you look at the destruction around the world, you know, John and and Haley have just come back from from Southeast Asia and the destruction from all the the palm oil plantations. And then when you look into it and you think, well just about everything has got palm oil in it. So how do you you know not use one thing? Those are decisions we all have to, you know, make, you know, on on our own. But again it becomes harder and harder to to choose organic, and often organic is is more expensive. So I don't think it's just you know choosing what to buy and what not to buy. It's how you live your life at the end of the day. And if you can't physically help, at least you can get on board and say, hey, you know, this is this is something worth you know contributing to. If I can't help with with money, I can help spread the word. And that goes a long way, you know. And then, you know, if you want to, hey, come out and see what we do, you know, that's the best way. And then you can really spread the word.

SPEAKER_01 28:44

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 28:45

But yeah, there's no there's no easy answer. For each person, it's a different a different calling and a different method to to unlock the passion for conservation.

SPEAKER_01 28:57

And I think shifting our mindset too, you know, you talked earlier about the the nursery you're planting and how, you know, I've seen your saplings and they're very small right now, but they're all seeds of hope. And they're designed for next generations, you know, not even necessarily our kids, but their kids. And so I think it's getting our generation also to sort of shift out of that mentality of what's right in front of us, that instant fix. And how do we start living truly in the we're borrowing for generations down the road? So that may be a shift.

SPEAKER_00 29:34

Yeah, it's very much getting away from that, yeah, getting away from that sort of instant gratification and sort of plan for the future, as you say, you know, I I won't see the fruits of my labor, I might see a little bit of it, but you know, my um my kids and my grandkids might be able to see some of those trees actually look like trees. But, you know, we can you can see it in a sort of the in your management style, you know, on the reserve, we can see it, you know, if you change the management style, you can inc increase or improve the the habitats. But again, it's there's very few things in nature that give you instant inst instant reward. A lot of it's slow process, but you've got to you've got to have the sort of foresight to see, you know, this is what it's gonna look like, you know, and we will have made a difference.

SPEAKER_01 30:21

Absolutely. Do you have a favorite tree?

SPEAKER_00 30:24

Oh, that's a good question. I think the Bayobab tree is one one of my favorite trees. That's the one that with a massive big thick trunk that looks like it's planted upside down. They're they're they're an interesting tree, and uh I have a a a really tiny one in my garden. It's at least taller than me, but I'll never see it look like a tree. But uh there's so many different so many different trees, but that's quite an iconic species, I think.

SPEAKER_01 30:53

How about a favorite bird?

SPEAKER_00 30:55

Well, that's another well, crowned eagle would be the the one, but again, there are so some very beautiful birds. But I think crowned eagle is is special, but also goes back to my home where I grew up. We have a pair of crowned eagles just, you know, down the way with a nest, and so every day they would be calling and circling over the house. It was uh just a special, a special sighting and a special call that I'll always remember.

SPEAKER_01 31:22

Is there a specific animal that you look forward to as you're going around the reserve? Is there one that you're always on the lookout for that still brings you joy when you see it?

SPEAKER_00 31:34

I love seeing Sunni, which are this tiny little antelope, you know, barely a foot tall or foot high. So they they're always a treat to see. They're hard to see, but they're all they're always a treat to see. But I like the smaller uh the smaller animals, if that makes sense, because they're generally harder to see, but they're special little things.

SPEAKER_01 31:56

That's wonderful. And last question for today what's bringing you hope these days?

SPEAKER_00 32:02

Hope is hope number one in conservation is seeing what all the pribs are achieving, which is great because you know there are a lot of areas that are struggling, that are government funded where the funding isn't available or the staffing isn't available. But uh being in this area and seeing how many private places are there and they're talking to each other, and you know, it would be great if we can join them all together. But we can see the incredible work that that the private conservation, you know, or you know, organizations are doing. That gives me a lot of hope for the future for our for our animals. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:41

Wonderful.

SPEAKER_00 32:42

Conservation in the area.

SPEAKER_01 32:44

Thank you so much for joining us on the Adventures in Learning podcast. Please give my love to everybody over there with Wild tomorrow, and hopefully I'll be back to see you all very soon.

SPEAKER_00 32:56

Thank you so much. I will do so and uh look forward to uh taking you for some more drives again in the future.

SPEAKER_01 33:03

Sounds wonderful. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 33:05

Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_01 33:07

You've been listening to the Adventures in Learning podcast with your host, Dr. Diane. If you like what you're hearing, please subscribe, download, and let us know what you think, and please tell a friend. If you want the full show notes and the pictures, please go to dr Dianeadventures.com. We look forward to you joining us on our next adventure.