Episode 206: Graffiti, Mystery, and Middle Grade Magic -- James Ponti Returns with Art Attack (Sherlock Society #3)

What happens when four kid detectives go undercover in Miami's graffiti underground to track down a protest artist who doesn't want to be found? You get Art Attack—the newest Sherlock Society mystery from Edgar Award–winning author James Ponti.

About This Episode

In this warm and lively return conversation, bestselling author James Ponti joins me to unpack his brand-new middle grade mystery, Art Attack (The Sherlock Society #3), out September 8, 2026. We dive into the world of street art, the ethics of graffiti as expression, and how James researched the scene—yes, including taking a real graffiti class in Miami's Wynwood Arts District. Along the way, we talk character growth across the series, the joy of Spirit Week mishaps, and why James believes kids deserve stories that respect their curiosity about justice, the environment, and their own power to make a difference.

You'll also hear sneak peeks about what's next in both the Sherlock Society and City Spies series—including wildlife trafficking in Miami and a globe-trotting spy mission from the Arctic to the Great Barrier Reef.

Chapters & Timestamps

• [00:00] Cold open: James reads the opening of Art Attack
• [01:26] Welcome back, James! Why graffiti? Why Miami?
• [03:13] Research in action: the graffiti class and "Funky Monkey"
• [06:53] Tags, spy names, and STEAM connections (art + mystery + voice)
• [09:33] Banksy, anonymity, and protest art for middle grade readers
• [12:46] Character growth across the series (kids AND Grandpa)
• [15:52] Spirit Week, embarrassment, and writing what feels human
• [18:58] What's next: Sherlock Society #4 (wildlife trafficking) + City Spies: Operation Oz
• [23:02] The children's literature community: collaboration over competition
• [27:54] Tackling big issues without preaching—trusting young readers
• [31:39] The read-aloud effect: empathy, vocabulary, and getting swept away
• [34:03] What's bringing James hope right now (hint: it's kid mail)
• [35:25] Book tour info

Links & Resources

James Ponti's Books (Sherlock Society & More)

• Art Attack (The Sherlock Society #3) – Aladdin, September 8, 2026
• The Sherlock Society #1 and #2 – earlier titles in the series
• City Spies series – including the upcoming Operation Oz (February 2027)

Previous Adventures in Learning Episodes with James Ponti

• Find James's earlier Adventures in Learning Podcast conversations (Episodes 69, 98, 119, and 175) in your favorite podcast app or at drdianadventures.com.

Book Tour & Events

• James is on tour this fall for Art Attack. Click here for tour dates. 

Call to Action

• Grab your copy of Art Attack this week and follow the Sherlock Society into Miami's street art scene.
• Subscribe, download, and share this episode with a teacher, librarian, or young reader who loves mysteries with heart.
• Want ready-to-use strategies to spark curiosity and lead with empathy in your school or organization? Explore my talks and workshops at drdianadventures.com.

Transcript

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SPEAKER_01 0:02

Chapter 1. Late November in Miami can be colder than most people think, but my hoodie was still soaked and sweat. That's how fast I was peddling. Although I'm sure my nerves had something to do with this too. I was in an industrial part of the city that never makes done postcards or any cabos toast. Windowless buildings make it wear hot. It was a cloudy night and I rode along empty streets until I reached my target. An abandoned soft drink bottle in the pan. For decades this was where the secret blend of lemons, lines, and stiff cock was turned into Mandarin and soda. Now it's where I jumped the curve onto the sidewalk and took my leap from honor student to outlaw.

SPEAKER_02 0:48

Wonder, curiosity, connection. Where will your adventures take you? I'm Dr. Diane, and thank you for joining me on today's episode of Adventures in Learning. You just heard best-selling author James Ponty reading the opening paragraphs from his brand new book, Art Attack, part of the Sherlock Society series. It is due out this week, and I am so excited to welcome James back. I'm your host, Dr. Diane Jackson Schnorr. Welcome to the Adventures in Learning podcast. And we're about to dive into the secret world of graffiti art.

SPEAKER_01 1:26

Well, thank you for having me. It's so I always it's always a highlight for me when I get to do this with the new book coming out and get to visit with you and talk about books and and I, you know, I love all the books you have behind you. I mean, obviously there's some mine there, so I like those. But you have books of my friends up there too. It's just, it's, it feels very comfortable and and and home.

SPEAKER_02 1:43

Well, I am so glad to welcome you back. I loved this book, and I'm so excited that people will get a chance to read it this week. You really took us into the world of social media, into graffiti art, into sort of the shadows of what that looks like. I've got to imagine that's not your background. How did you go about creating this incredible world for your detectives?

SPEAKER_01 2:06

Well, it's it's not as far from my background as you might think. Certainly there's an outlaw part of graffiti that is way distant from anything in my existence. But um, my mother was a painter. And so my mother loved art and she loved to paint and she loved all types of painting. And wherever we would go, we would, you know, we would go to art museums, but also we'd go look for like people who sold their art in markets. And we'd go to art shows and we would go, she loved murals. And so Miami happens to be just flush with murals. There's a specifically a part of town called Winwood. And Winwood is, I believe it's has more concentrated outdoor art than anywhere in the United States, and certainly as much as almost anywhere in the world. And so I love that part of it. I love the art part of it. The danger in the night, the spray can part of it is not for me. And that's why I start the book off with my stand-in, Alex, the narrator of the books, also very much out of his element trying to put a can of spray paint on a wall in the middle of the night and not get in trouble.

SPEAKER_02 3:13

I loved that. Now, did you have to, in terms of sort of the graffiti world, I saw on I saw an Instagram reel where you were taking lessons in graffiti art. Tell us a little bit about that because the idea that there's a graffiti school sort of feels a little bit outside the process.

SPEAKER_01 3:32

Well, you know, it's I I believe in the research for everything. And it's it's part of this Winwood experience. The Winwood Arts District has a bunch of galleries, it has places, there's just art everywhere. And one of the places you go, they give tours. And it was actually on a tour there that I had when I was on a research trip to Miami, because I always I got down to Miami a couple times a year to look up things for for the Sherlock books. And it was on a tour there that I thought, this is this is what the next book is going to be. It's gonna be about this. So so it already started with one of these tours. And the same company that does the tour does like a one-hour graffiti class. They might do a longer one. But and so when I came down the next time, Christina Diaz-Gonzalez, who is a good friend of mine and an author who lives in Miami, I said, Christina, uh, you're driving me around Miami, right? She goes, Yeah, of course. I said, Well, I've signed us up for graffiti classes. She goes, What's that? I go, trust me, you're gonna love it. And she's like, I don't understand, James, how it is that I live here and you keep finding new things for me to do that I've never done. When she's been there since she was in middle school. But so we took a graffiti class. And because what I really wanted to know, I'm never gonna go spray paint a wall somewhere, but I want to know what that's like. Does the does the spray, does the paint get on your hands? Does it create a mess? How close, how far, what what are the tricks to it? And it was really educational, but it was fun. I mean, Christina and I are there and we're we're trying different things, and and the guy was great. This guy there, our teacher was a guy named Santiago Conde. And Santiago was great. And he he said, you know, get closer, get further. This I do a little spot, this how you do a big spot. And then I'd watch him and he was amazing. He would just do this stuff really quickly. Ironically, that led to something else. So as we come a couple months ago, as we're talking about how are we going, what are we gonna do to promote the book? What are we what what goes with the book? I said, you know, I really want to figure out a way to get graffiti into our marketing plan, into what we show. And you know, we could we could try to emulate it, you know, but I said, why don't why not you know I know the graffiti artists. Why don't we see if we can get him and work out an arrangement with him to paint the graffiti from the books and from the book. And so he did he he helped, you know, I said the the in the in the book, the graffiti artist is kind of uh it's a protest artist who goes by the moniker funky monkey and the character is funky monkey. And so you know, this is actually the graffiti that one of the things this is the stickers I've given out at my events that Santiago came up with. But he came up with what the graffiti would look like. And then we had to say, well, realize this is graffiti for a middle grade age. So we had to like, you know, make it not as aggressive as some graffiti, but it was fantastic. And he did a great job. And so now I I have these giveaway things, there's social media things, I have video of him. He he he did some of it digitally, and he did some of it where he went out and painted a Sherlock Society mural on a wall in Miami. I have a video of it, I'll get that on social media. And we have a backdrop at all my events. It's gonna have the graffiti in the background. So it was really where the research just kept going and going and making the process more fun.

SPEAKER_02 6:53

What a fun connection. So I have a question. Did you figure out what your tag would be?

SPEAKER_01 6:59

Um, my tag would be please don't arrest me because I'm terrible at this. I don't know how you fit that in. I am, I am not we we all my my middle name's Marco. So if ever I needed a code name growing up, I would just go Marco as like a standalone, like a Brazilian soccer player name. But no, I I I I am, you know, the the the son of an artist, and my son is also a great artist, but that skipped the generation. So I I I don't know. Would do you have one? What would yours be? Dr. Dr. J?

SPEAKER_02 7:28

Oh gosh. Dr. D? Maybe it would be Doc.

SPEAKER_01 7:31

Doc? That'd be a good one. That'd be a good one. I, you know.

SPEAKER_02 7:35

It would be easy to write and get away before I got caught.

SPEAKER_01 7:38

There you go. Well, you know, my spy name from City Spies is Pisa, because I was born in Pisa, Italy. Pisa's not a bad graffiti tag. It's short, you can do like the I like the Leaning Tower. Ooh, I like it. So maybe there's something there.

SPEAKER_02 7:51

Well, you know, as we're talking, I'm thinking that this could be something as teachers are reading it with students. I'm always trying to think about ways that you can sort of build that gap between literacy and STEM and STEAM. And I'm thinking this offers so many opportunities to bring the art in, to let kids be creative, to think about alternate forms of expression.

SPEAKER_01 8:10

Well, we we we talked a lot about how we could do graffiti at the bookstores on the tour, but they always thought, well, there's no way the bookstores are gonna let us we can't have kids with spray cans. And that was part of why we said, oh, but we can get Santiago to do the graffiti for us and we could ship it to all the stores and we could do it that way. So yeah, no, but it's always it'd be a a great, a great in-class thing with butcher paper on the wall and all working on their different graffiti tags. And and because what would what's, you know, I'm not a huge fan of messy graffiti everywhere, but also I acknowledge I recognize that graffiti sometimes gives a voice of those who don't have one. And sometimes it's really high artistic quality, and it it it's it's kind of a gray area. And so it's a kind of a neat thing, I think, for kids to think about what would they say if they could just say one thing with a picture? Because that's really what a graffiti artist does. Here's one thing with a picture that I need to get it off my chest.

SPEAKER_02 9:11

And that was the power of Funky Monkey, and I really loved sort of following that arc. And, you know, I'm not gonna give anything away because you've got to read the book, but I do think that But I do think that that was really powerful because Funky Monkey, they had something they really wanted to say, and the graffiti was that vehicle to be able to do it.

SPEAKER_01 9:33

Well, it it had to have it had to so the I the the initial idea I had was about Banksy. So Banksy's the famous graffiti protest artist, right? And and now they've said they've identified who he is, and I I try to ignore that because I like the idea of his animation.

SPEAKER_02 9:51

Same. I don't want to know.

SPEAKER_01 9:52

Oh yeah, it's it's it he if he wanted people to know, he would tell us. But my question is, I'm taking this tour around Miami and I'm looking at all the art. I'm like, what would Banksy do if he saw a major crime being committed? Because he couldn't tell the police without admitting, oh, well, by the way, I'm Banksy, I'm the guy you want to arrest for a lot of this graffiti, I'm the guy who I've worked so far. But there's this crime that I saw, and it's like, and that would put him in an awkward spot. And so I thought, okay, the graffiti artist, so I want a graffiti artist, like the Miami version of Banksy. So maybe protesting Miami politics, protesting some of the business, especially development, overdevelopment. That's always the case in Florida. The two sides tend to fall down into we're developing too much of the state. No, we have, you know. And so we'll we'll mix that together and we'll let that person so it had to be the the protests had to be real. Otherwise, they could just go and say, Hey, I saw this thing happen. And so Funky Monkey, and then and then it became, you know, I spent days coming up with funky monkey because it's like, what's the character going to be? And I talked to my editor. I go, I think it should be fun, I think it should be accessible, it has to be visual, it has to be a play on words a little bit. Do we spell monkey properly or do we spell it with a you like funky? And so, you know, the the minutia of the job sometimes is actually the most fun, but it's amazing how much I'll spend on the littlest detail. But I wanted Funky Monkey to seem like an actual protest artist, not just a generic one.

SPEAKER_02 11:23

Well, and I think you definitely gave them a real personality, and I loved watching the process as our four heroes sort of try to figure out who it is.

SPEAKER_01 11:33

You know, and and that's that's a fun part and a little bit of a tricky part my job. So I don't do murder mysteries. Like most 99% of the mysteries you'll see on television and movies and in books are murders. And I'm like, you know, I don't want to do that. So what other mysteries are out there? I used to work on a show at Nickelodeon called The Mystery Files of Shelby Woo. And we also had a no violence and no drugs, you know, all makes sense for Nickelodeon. But we had a lot of jewel thieves, a lot of cat burglars. You know, and I used to we used to joke about that. It's like, man, this town has more cat burglars than Disney has theme parks, you know, or you know, and it's like, and so coming up with something that is reasonable for or believable for the team to figure out, but still has weight, and then defeating to seem like, oh, that's a nice, that's a nice thing, because that is a mystery. Who paints these paintings? Who who's responsible for this? And that's not only a mystery that's believable, but that's a mystery all of us have. We all see that and we wonder, especially we see something like in a really hard-to-reach spot, or it's like, who who did that? And now they get to figure out, okay, that's our that's our mystery.

SPEAKER_02 12:46

No, and I I think that that makes so much sense. And the other thing I noticed in this book as I was reading is I love the character development because having now read all three, you can see the growth in not just the four kids, but also in grandpa. Like each character has grown in relationship to each other, but also on their own. And so they're taking different risks than they did in the first book.

SPEAKER_01 13:11

Right. And and and that's probably for me the most important thing is I want these, you know, so so from the beginning we have we have four kids and we have a grandfather. And the grandfather originally was because I needed someone to drive the bar. But it's like, but I'm not just gonna have him be a driver like he's an Uber driver. Let's we have so we have five characters to deal with, and we need to make sure each one of them is different. You know, and actually at the beginning, two of them are not only not friends, but they really kind of don't like each other. Two are best friends forever. And but they all are very different in personality. And you want that to develop, you want those relationships to develop, and you want it not to only develop positively. You know, you want there to be like, for example, Lena and Zoe start off not being friends and they become friends throughout the course of the books. But the friendlier they get means that's the less amount of time that Lena has to be you know, Lena, Lena was Alex's friend. And now he feels like he's losing her, and there's a part of him that's jealous about that, you know. So because you because kids are jealous of each other, especially siblings, so that in that instance with Alex and Zoe. And then Grandpa is he can't just be the renegade cowboy letting them do whatever they want to do. He's got to have skin in the game, and he's gotta care about them, and he's gonna and so this time I thought was interesting is grandpa has a girlfriend. And, you know, and that flips the situation where normally, normally growing up, you know, at least my experience was the older people tease you about your dating life.

SPEAKER_02 14:48

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 14:49

Like that's where you're vulnerable. It's like, mom, don't embarrass me. So-and-so is coming over and I don't want you to embarrass me. Well, that's the case dynamic in the first two books, but now it's like, wait a minute. Grandpa now doesn't want to be embarrassed in front of his girlfriend, and the power dynamic has shifted. And what's really fun about her is that she comes in and she's got different perspectives. She she brings perspective to the kids that's new, you know, and and and that was fun to write. You know, it went, you know, at one point Alex is saying he's trying to sum up the group to her. It's like, oh, you know, Lena's the brains, and Yachty's the artistic genius, and and Zoe could do anything. And she goes, What's your story? And he goes, I don't have a story. There's nothing special about me. And she turns that on his head, its head, and you know, it makes him think about that's that's not true. But you only get that when you get new characters into the mix. So I had to figure out a way to bring someone new to help mix up the characters.

SPEAKER_02 15:52

Well, I loved that, and I also loved the way you took what I think every middle schooler dreads, which is that idea of spirit week, and you managed to bring it in in a way that was humorous and delightful and very human.

SPEAKER_01 16:07

Spirit week was probably my most fun part of writing this book. Was that it we had we had a spirit week all throughout, and you know, so so the dynamic, again, not to spoil things, but it's it's not much of a spoiler in there, is that Zoe is vice president of student council. So she's all about Spirit Week. She helps plan it. Alex and Yachty couldn't care less, and to them, it's just something that happens in another world. But because Zoe has now brought Lena on board and Lena's been involved as a friend, they have to try to participate. And it just doesn't come naturally. And it doesn't help that grandpa gets involved. But I I had that happen to me tremendously. I was actually always gung-ho about things like spirit weed. And I I had embarrassing things where I overdressed and I was mocked all day, or in my head I was mocked all day. So that kind of at school, there's nothing you can do but just grin and bear it. I wanted that for Alex. If I suffered through it, he needs to suffer through it. Right. Right?

SPEAKER_02 17:19

I I love that. Imagine a space where curiosity drives innovation, where empathy fuels collaboration, and where learning feels less like a task and more like an adventure. My message isn't about adding more to your plate, it's about changing how you see the plate entirely. I'm Dr. Diane Jackson Schnorr, and through the power of purposeful play, I equip leaders, educators, and organizations with the tools you need to unlock creative problem solving, deepen human connection, and build resistant ecosystems of empathy and innovation. Attendees will walk away not just inspired but empowered, with immediately usable strategies to spark curiosity in teams, to lead with empathy, and to infuse learning into their everyday cultures. You'll learn how play isn't child's work, it's the secret weapon of the world's most effective leaders and change makers. This is not a feel-good talk that fades by Monday morning, it's a movement. A shift in how we engage people, solve problems, and lead meaningful change. My talks and workshops are shaped by decades of experience in education and a transformative message that connects across sectors. Whether your audience is corporate, educational, or nonprofit, they'll leave ready to rethink what's possible, both personally and professionally. Because when we learn and lead through play, we don't just change organizations, we change the world. Check it out at drdianadventures.com. Now I know that when you write these books, you know, we're talking about it and it's out this week. You're already deeply enmeshed in the next one.

SPEAKER_01 19:07

I am two books beyond it actually.

SPEAKER_02 19:09

I was gonna say you're you're way ahead of us. Any idea any hints you want to drop or clues as to where we're going from here?

SPEAKER_01 19:16

Okay, well, in the Sherlock Society, the next one, let me see, what can I say? Sherlock Society four is involves animal trafficking in Miami. So what what happens is Miami is actually one of the world's leading centers, unfortunately, in wildlife trafficking because it's a gateway to central. And I thought, you know, when I when I came across that detail, actually my son, who works in the zoo business, told me that. I said, oh, that's that's something kids care about. And so it's about that, but it also is about this project that we've talked about that the father works on, which is a coral reef project. So there's a lot of nature, yeah. You know, I figured we did a lot, it was it was very urban in that we were in industrial areas of Miami, we were doing graffiti, so we saw that part of Miami. So this one is gonna have a more nature approach and ocean approach, and we're gonna go down into the upper keys for part of it as well. And so that that's in that one. And the next City Spice book, which comes out in February, is it goes from it's called Operation Oz, and it goes from practically the Arctic Circle in Norway and ends in the Great Barrier Reef. And so we go top to bottom, and we have it it I re I just turned in the file copy edits two days ago. And so I reread the book over the weekend, and it's always the you're worried. But actually, when I read it, I thought, oh, I I like this one. This is good. So hopefully readers will like it too.

SPEAKER_02 20:49

Well, I can't wait to talk to you about it when it comes out because I'm a fan of both series. You know, I was just I had Stuart Gibbs on earlier this week, and we'll be airing that later this fall, but we were talking about Ape Escape, and you know, it got me thinking about how children's authors are really doing such an incredible job of helping to shine a light onto conservation and particularly onto that exotic species trade, the illegal trade. And I really appreciate that.

SPEAKER_01 21:22

You know, it's funny. So Stewart is one of my best friends. I just was at his wedding. Um, I'm gonna see him in two weeks. We live across, we live opposite sides of the country and we see each other all the time. We it it is this this dynamic that is completely coincidental. I guess it's because we have similar the reasons we're friends, we have so many similar tastes. But I write a mystery series and I write a spy series, and he writes a mystery series, and he writes a spy series. Now, his mystery series is based on animals, and mine is based in Miami. And my spies are more international, and his are American, but you know, we call each other all the time to make sure A, we're not stepping on each other's storylines, or B, Hey, are you okay if I write this? Because I'm, you know, you know, the the the great joke. He also did a series. Oh, I just blanked that Charlie Thorne, the Charlie Thorne series. You know, and he he once called me from I think he was on the Harbor Bridge in Sydney, Australia. And he called me from the bridge. And he's like, I get the bridge. I'm like, what do you what do you what are you talking about? I thought you're on vacation with your kids. He goes, I am. I'm in Sydney right now. I'm on the Harbor Bridge and I get the bridge for my books. Like, whoa, whoa, wait. We get to call it? What do you mean you get the bridge? He goes, Yeah, because this is a great setting and there's fungy or there's climbing or there's whatever. And I go, I have a Sydney, I got I have a character named Sydney. I have to go to Sydney. He goes, Well, I got the bridge. I said, Well, I have the opera house. He goes, What? I go, if if you get the bridge, I get the opera house. Those are the two great icons of the Sydney. And uh Operation O is the cover is the Sydney Opera House. So sorry, Stu, I got the Opera House.

SPEAKER_00 22:55

I love it.

SPEAKER_01 22:56

It's a much better cover than the I mean, the bridge is nice, but the Opera House is really something special. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:03

You know what? I know we've talked about this before, but I love the friendships that are inherent in the children's literature world. I see it on your tour all the time when you go and you promote your books and you introduce kids to other authors in the areas where you're promoting. And it's just such a special thing.

SPEAKER_01 23:22

It's really important to me. First of all, middle grade fiction, kids' books, kiddlett, it's not a zero-sum game. You know, if you I want you to read Stu's books, and if you read Stu's books, and there's a lot of them, eventually you'll run out and you'll want to read others like it. Maybe you'll read mine, or vice versa. Or, you know, we we we talk about that stuff all the time. But more importantly, I just want kids to read. And they may like mine, and luckily some of them seem to like mine, so I have a career in this, but uh, they don't have to like mine, and so I want them to meet as many authors' books as possible. So that's either on social media. You know, I do this campaign every now and then where I'll have authors read one-star reviews of their books or show us around their uh writing spaces, you know, or on a tour, because I want, you know, on a tour. So when I when I go to Chicago, I'll be there, but I'll be with Jasmine Warga. And Jasmine's books are different and they're great. And so if you come for me, I want you to hear that. And maybe some will come for her and they'll be exposed to me, and that's wonderful. And so, but that community is so important to me because I it's the way things should be. We uh the world has so much competition in it, and business has so much competition, and I understand where that comes from. But I I I never feel it amongst us. I never feel there's competition. You know, we'll joke about stuff like, you know, we'll we'll joke with with Gordon Corman always being on the bestseller list and acting like he doesn't care. It's like, of course you don't care because you're always on it, you know. But it's not real competition, you know, because I want you to read Gordon's books, I want you to read Jasmine's books, I want you to read Green and Glazer's book, you know, and and that community also, you know, I mentioned Jasmine working the book. I I wasn't sure how this book was starting right now. And I I don't show my editor until the book is done because I wanted to have a fresh read. So she read the first five chapters and gave me feedback to let me know, okay, you're on the right track here. And okay, this is all, you know, and I know when I show it to her, she understands this enough that she's gonna give me the right, like the real answers. She because I want to know if it's not good. I don't want just positive stuff, but she's also gonna say, I think it's great, but here, you know, and and that's so helpful. So that community is everything to me. And what I really hope to present to kids is that they're part of it too. You know, in a degree, I mean we're older and this and that, but but we're we're all part of the celebration of books. And my friendship with Stuart and Gordon is no different than your friendship with your buddies at lunch. Because believe me, we're just as goofy. And and I think what that gives us is it knocks down some of the barriers where a kid might think, well, that's that's this distant thing, writing books. Like, no, that doesn't seem that distant. That seems like what I've got with with my friends.

SPEAKER_02 26:17

No, I like that. And I think it also, you all model that idea of collaboration, which we know we want kids to be able to do, but sometimes that's hard for them to see it and understand it. And so when grown-ups behave well and are able to do that, it it makes it a little bit easier to say, oh, if my favorite authors can do it, then I can do it during first period science.

SPEAKER_01 26:40

Yeah, we want to collaborate. Also, the the reason I did the the one-start review thing, and I'll do some more of those, is I want young people to see, wait a minute, he sold he's sold over a million books, yet people will still really hate something he writes. That doesn't mean he's not good. So maybe if someone says something critical to me, I don't take it as, oh, they're right and I'm wrong, and I can't do something. You know, if you if you see Pam Monios Ryan, who is an unbelievable writer, reading off this like just absolutely blistery view of her work, it's like, oh wait, we're all the same here. And it also shows that we're not so we take our job very seriously, we don't take ourselves very seriously. You know, and I think that's those are all important things to model. And all of us, and and we we have uh an advantage and responsibility. We know our audience is young and is impressionable and is is concentrated. You know, like I said, uh a lot of adults read our books, and I get that. But so we're always cognizant of the audience and how our behavior might impact the people who like the books.

SPEAKER_02 27:54

Well, and one of the things that I love about particularly the middle grade writers in your circle and the ones that I've had a chance to get to know as well, is you deal with some pretty intense ish issues, but you do it by telling stories and they're entertaining, and it I think helps to bridge that gap between teaching and enjoying and sort of realizing that life is there to be lived.

SPEAKER_01 28:22

You know, it's that's the misconception about kids' books is people who are not haven't read them much or not recently, or certainly not who who don't write them, think of them as fluffier than I think they are. Because even the popcorn books or the the crowd pleasure books are usually about serious things because kids live in a world of serious things, and they see them every day, and we do them a disservice if we try to gloss over that. That doesn't mean they don't need to know all the gory details, it doesn't mean they need to know about everything, but they understand the world is complex, and you know, we try to deal with that not in an after-school special preachy kind of way, but in a way that acknowledges that I know that you're a little bit worried, at least if not a lot worried, about the environment. And I know you care about animals, and I know that you care about justice and injustice, and we try to tell stories that let us demonstrate that instead of talk about it, right? Because certainly you can go and you can be told, you know, injustice is wrong, hatred is right, you know, we we could we can say that, but that's not that doesn't work. But if we show behavior of, oh wow, teamwork really makes a difference, oh wow, we really should be understanding of people even when they make mistakes, even when they hurt our hurt us, you know. And also we want to model the fact that kids have the power to s to figure things out, you know, and and and nowhere is that more obvious in the environment. You know, I in in one of my Citi Spies books, it was in Mission Manhattan, is about an environmental activist from Brazil. And when I was researching that, the the the obvious one people know about is Greta Thunberg. But a little bit of research told me that actually there were there are like 30 prominent 19 and under activists in environmental space that are making a difference across the world, and many as young as 13, 14, 15 years old. Because they get it. And that empowers them. You know, what what we don't do is well, is when we tell kids, yeah, we those are problems, but you can worry about those problems later. It feels like they have no no no ability to impact. And so hopefully the books show that, but also more importantly, hopefully they're entertaining and intriguing and they make them think and they develop their vocabularies and you know, all the things that a book should do. You know, what we do have those issues in there, and and uh none of the writers I know shy away from them, but we none of us also do it in the way that when I was growing up, stuff like that was like we're gonna be incredibly obvious about this.

SPEAKER_02 31:29

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 31:30

We're gonna talk about pollution, why pollution's wrong. And that's the name of the book, pollution's wrong. You know, it's like, no, that's not how we do things.

SPEAKER_00 31:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:38

Yeah. And you allow kids to read, to step into the world of the characters, to develop their empathy muscles, because when we become enmeshed in a good book, so important, yeah. We learn to appreciate other people's feelings, and then you give them the space to draw their own conclusions. And I think that that's the power of reading. That's the power of the read aloud, the power of a good literature circle, the power of a good book.

SPEAKER_01 32:03

Well, that that is the hope for sure. You know, I I I you know, I love it when I read and I get caught off guard and I get swept away. And, you know, the other day, Karina Glazer let me read her book that's gonna come out next year. And I'm a slow reader. I have been since childhood. I'm just a slow reader. And like I and I called her right away to see how much I loved it. And she goes, You already finished it? I'm like, I couldn't stop, right? I had to, I just I couldn't stop reading. I had to know it was gonna happen and I love it so much. And isn't that wonderful when we get swept away like that?

SPEAKER_02 32:43

It really is. And Art Attack for me was one of those books where I didn't expect to read it as quickly as I did. I actually got mad at myself when I was like on the last page, and like, no, I'm done. I want to go back and read again. It was that compelling. There was something about it that just drew me in. So I really think that other people are gonna have just an amazing reaction to this.

SPEAKER_01 33:06

Well, I I hope so. I, you know, it it it's always the hope, but I really love these characters, and I love the chance that I get to explore things with them. Miami is such a great setting because there's it's so cosmopolitan, and you have art and you have nature, and you have this incredible Cuban community, and you have this Haitian community, and you have, you know, beach bums, and you have the whole Miami. It's like there's so much there to explore. And it is a world for these kids all within one metropolitan area, but the whole world is there. And and that's the fun thing to get to write about. But most of all, I think is important is I really care about the people who read the books, and I want them to find stuff they love in it too.

SPEAKER_02 33:56

Absolutely. So, last question for today, and you've answered it before, but we'll see if your answer has changed. Oh my goodness. It's the question, what's currently bringing you hope?

SPEAKER_00 34:06

What's currently bringing me hope? It the mail I get from kids is I I feel like I don't deserve it.

SPEAKER_01 34:18

Right? It's it's so generous, it's so kind. And it's not hope isn't from the fact that, oh, they're saying nice things about my books. Because I mean, every every day I'm getting emails or letters in the mail, you know, I don't even know how they find out where I live. You know, I don't know how they find me, but they find me. But it is what they ask me about from the books that lets me know they are looking at the world with wide open eyes and they're questioning things, not out of like a smug dismay, but out of a hopeful kind of, oh, why you do that? Oh, I love how you did that, or oh, this part here. And oh, is she going to be able to solve this? And they are so vested in life and positive outcomes that that makes me feel like that's a that's a good thing to have coming up down the road for us as society.

SPEAKER_02 35:09

I like that. Well, James Ponty, thank you for joining us today on the Adventures in Learning podcast. Art Attack drops this week. I encourage you to run out and grab your copy, and I'll also drop the book tour in our show notes as well. So you might get a chance to visit Julius who travels the country.

SPEAKER_01 35:26

Yeah, it's so much fun. I'll be with great writers at almost every event. So it'll be a fun time for sure.

SPEAKER_02 35:32

Wonderful. Well, thank you, and I hope we'll see you when the next City Spies comes out.

SPEAKER_01 35:36

I'll I'll look forward to it. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_02 35:39

You've been listening to the Adventures in Learning podcast with your host, Dr. Diane. If you like what you're hearing, please subscribe, download, and let us know what you think, and please tell a friend. If you want the full show notes and the pictures, please go to dr Dianeadventures.com. We look forward to you joining us on our next adventure.