{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":", Sam Dunnewold","startTime":0.09,"endTime":5.25,"body":"I think characters"},{"speaker":", Sam Dunnewold","startTime":0.09,"endTime":5.25,"body":"really come alive with context."},{"speaker":", Sam Dunnewold","startTime":6.42,"endTime":11.33,"body":"Just imagine, , a whole office"},{"speaker":", Sam Dunnewold","startTime":6.42,"endTime":11.33,"body":"just filled with some weirdo's"},{"speaker":", Sam Dunnewold","startTime":11.549,"endTime":13.02,"body":"collection of traffic cones."},{"speaker":", Sam Dunnewold","startTime":13.24,"endTime":14.989,"body":", what does that say about them?"},{"speaker":", Sam Dunnewold","startTime":16.149,"endTime":19.119,"body":"Everyone comes and tells you"},{"speaker":", Sam Dunnewold","startTime":16.149,"endTime":19.119,"body":"when you're sick, oh, you're so"},{"speaker":", Sam Dunnewold","startTime":19.119,"endTime":21.73,"body":"brave for getting through this,"},{"speaker":", Sam Dunnewold","startTime":19.119,"endTime":21.73,"body":"you're doing such a good job."},{"speaker":", Sam Dunnewold","startTime":21.95,"endTime":23.049,"body":"At least that's what they told me."},{"speaker":", Sam Dunnewold","startTime":23.4,"endTime":25.01,"body":"And I was always , yeah?"},{"speaker":", Sam Dunnewold","startTime":25.01,"endTime":26.66,"body":"What would you do?"},{"speaker":", Sam Dunnewold","startTime":27.54,"endTime":30.575,"body":", I, I don't know, , I could be"},{"speaker":", Sam Dunnewold","startTime":27.54,"endTime":30.575,"body":"scared, This is just what's"},{"speaker":", Sam Dunnewold","startTime":30.575,"endTime":32.105,"body":"happening in my life right now."},{"speaker":", Sam Dunnewold","startTime":32.195,"endTime":33.375,"body":"I want to keep living."},{"speaker":", Sam Dunnewold","startTime":33.405,"endTime":34.555,"body":"So I'm going to do it."},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":67.055,"endTime":67.985,"body":"Hello friends."},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":68.035,"endTime":72.214,"body":"Welcome to Characters Without"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":68.035,"endTime":72.214,"body":"Stories, a TTRPG podcast about"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":72.214,"endTime":73.835,"body":"the roads not yet traveled."},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":74.115,"endTime":74.785,"body":"I'm Star."},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":74.924,"endTime":77.554,"body":"This episode, I'm joined by Sam Dunnewold."},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":77.865,"endTime":81.435,"body":"Sam is a Minnesotan game designer,"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":77.865,"endTime":81.435,"body":"screenwriter, and podcaster"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":81.505,"endTime":83.305,"body":"living in Hollywood,  a chump."},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":83.56,"endTime":87.89,"body":"His podcast, Dice Exploder, breaks down"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":83.56,"endTime":87.89,"body":"a game mechanic every week with a friend."},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":87.93,"endTime":92.139,"body":"He's the designer of Doskvol Breathes"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":87.93,"endTime":92.139,"body":"and Space Train Space Heist, and he"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":92.139,"endTime":94.85,"body":"was a judge for the 2022 The Awards."},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":95.325,"endTime":99.365,"body":"Sam used to work for The Onion as a"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":95.325,"endTime":99.365,"body":"video editor, and he has no colon."},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":100.015,"endTime":103.024,"body":"Sam, why don't you have a colon,"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":100.015,"endTime":103.024,"body":"if it's not too much to ask?"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":103.024,"endTime":105.495,"body":"Oh, yeah, because"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":103.024,"endTime":105.495,"body":"I've got horrible debilitating"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":105.505,"endTime":109.414,"body":"Crohn's disease, and, or I did at"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":105.505,"endTime":109.414,"body":"one point, and now I don't because"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":109.414,"endTime":110.965,"body":"I had the offending organ removed."},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":111.515,"endTime":112.195,"body":"All right."},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":112.255,"endTime":116.265,"body":"I imagine that  it feels better"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":112.255,"endTime":116.265,"body":"not to have Crohn's disease."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":116.495,"endTime":116.805,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":116.935,"endTime":120.865,"body":"I mean, it, it, yeah, I  eating"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":116.935,"endTime":120.865,"body":"stuff again, you know, it's a, it's"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":120.865,"endTime":124.024,"body":"a wonderful time, but that, that"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":120.865,"endTime":124.024,"body":"was over a decade ago at this point."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":124.034,"endTime":125.335,"body":"So, very much in the past."},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":125.435,"endTime":125.995,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":126.015,"endTime":128.675,"body":"So is there anything else you want"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":126.015,"endTime":128.675,"body":"to tell listeners about yourself?"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":128.805,"endTime":129.164,"body":"I don't know."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":129.175,"endTime":130.255,"body":"I'm just excited to be here."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":130.255,"endTime":131.105,"body":"Thanks so much for having me."},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":131.175,"endTime":131.575,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":131.575,"endTime":135.575,"body":"I want to say I have listened to"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":131.575,"endTime":135.575,"body":"a couple episodes of your podcast"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":135.595,"endTime":136.885,"body":"and I'm really enjoying it."},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":136.885,"endTime":138.955,"body":"I highly recommend that"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":136.885,"endTime":138.955,"body":"people check it out."},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":139.025,"endTime":139.195,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":139.195,"endTime":139.455,"body":"Thanks."},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":139.815,"endTime":143.195,"body":"So, Sam, who are you"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":139.815,"endTime":143.195,"body":"bringing to the table today?"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":143.405,"endTime":148.865,"body":"So, I am bringing in"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":143.405,"endTime":148.865,"body":"a weird little guy named Exit, who"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":148.885,"endTime":151.675,"body":"is I don't know, where do I start?"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":151.705,"endTime":154.365,"body":"You want me to start with the"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":151.705,"endTime":154.365,"body":"origin of who this person is?"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":154.535,"endTime":157.545,"body":"What was the situation"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":154.535,"endTime":157.545,"body":"you made the character for?"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":157.745,"endTime":160.415,"body":"I have a really hard"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":157.745,"endTime":160.415,"body":"time, un most people I think you have on"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":160.415,"endTime":165.025,"body":"this show, seeing characters outside of"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":160.415,"endTime":165.025,"body":"context that they're in,  relationships to"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":165.025,"endTime":166.935,"body":"other people and  the world they live in."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":166.985,"endTime":170.285,"body":"And this character very much"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":166.985,"endTime":170.285,"body":"comes from an Apocalypse World"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":170.285,"endTime":172.595,"body":"campaign that I was emceeing."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":172.635,"endTime":176.135,"body":"And we created this world, we"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":172.635,"endTime":176.135,"body":"were all really excited about"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":176.145,"endTime":178.605,"body":"this campaign, we were playing"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":176.145,"endTime":178.605,"body":"Apocalypse World for the first time."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":178.82,"endTime":182.24,"body":"We, did all this world building on"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":178.82,"endTime":182.24,"body":"Discord, before our first session"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":182.24,"endTime":186.9,"body":"even, and ended up with this world that"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":182.24,"endTime":186.9,"body":"is, everyone lives in one skyscraper,"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":186.91,"endTime":190.89,"body":"basically, and there's horrible mist at"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":186.91,"endTime":190.89,"body":"the ground that will do psychic damage to"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":190.909,"endTime":192.68,"body":"you, so you can't go down in the ground."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":192.68,"endTime":194.569,"body":"Everyone just lives in the one skyscraper."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":194.83,"endTime":198.65,"body":"And we thought that was a kind of"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":194.83,"endTime":198.65,"body":"cool way to sort of bound the world"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":198.67,"endTime":203.19,"body":"into a  limited space and also create"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":198.67,"endTime":203.19,"body":"this cool mythology of  what's going"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":203.19,"endTime":206.079,"body":"down in the mist, what sort of weird"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":203.19,"endTime":206.079,"body":"psychic monsters are down there."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":206.13,"endTime":207.83,"body":"And this was a super cool world."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":207.84,"endTime":209.279,"body":"We came up with all kinds of details."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":209.279,"endTime":213.87,"body":"You know, I was running this game and"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":209.279,"endTime":213.87,"body":"there was a character,  a hard holder"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":213.91,"endTime":220.57,"body":"who made all of his underlings dress"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":213.91,"endTime":220.57,"body":"in old marching band uniforms that they"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":220.57,"endTime":222.479,"body":"had stockpiled around for some reason."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":222.75,"endTime":225.19,"body":"And they didn't understand"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":222.75,"endTime":225.19,"body":"what a marching band was."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":225.21,"endTime":229.3,"body":"They just had old photos of band"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":225.21,"endTime":229.3,"body":"kids in the middle of marching."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":229.439,"endTime":232.94,"body":"So they thought that  posing their"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":229.439,"endTime":232.94,"body":"body like they were mid march was"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":232.95,"endTime":236.299,"body":"essentially a salute because the photos"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":232.95,"endTime":236.299,"body":"were, yeah, they didn't realize the"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":236.3,"endTime":237.579,"body":"photos were in the middle of motion."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":237.92,"endTime":242.549,"body":"It was just weird character and world"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":237.92,"endTime":242.549,"body":"building details throughout this thing."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":242.579,"endTime":247.259,"body":"And there was one character in particular"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":242.579,"endTime":247.259,"body":"named Trout that one of my players was"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":247.259,"endTime":253.16,"body":"playing, who was essentially a weird"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":247.259,"endTime":253.16,"body":"little cult leader who lived on the  floor"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":253.16,"endTime":258.799,"body":"of this skyscraper that was too far"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":253.16,"endTime":258.799,"body":"down for everyone else's comfort, but"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":258.799,"endTime":262.145,"body":"not so far down that Trout would die."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":262.174,"endTime":267.445,"body":"But they and their followers were"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":262.174,"endTime":267.445,"body":"a bunch of weirdos down there."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":267.695,"endTime":271.044,"body":"And we only got to play this"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":267.695,"endTime":271.044,"body":"campaign for a few sessions, but"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":271.064,"endTime":274.515,"body":"I really loved the whole world."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":274.575,"endTime":276.184,"body":"I loved Trout especially."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":276.224,"endTime":283.205,"body":"I just loved this weirdo on the"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":276.224,"endTime":283.205,"body":"outskirts of society who was sort of"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":283.205,"endTime":289.515,"body":"straddling the line between living in"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":283.205,"endTime":289.515,"body":"the real world and living in this sort"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":289.515,"endTime":295.195,"body":"of dream psychedelic world of whatever"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":289.515,"endTime":295.195,"body":"the mist was below these skyscrapers."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":295.414,"endTime":300.395,"body":"And I had my vision for who I wanted"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":295.414,"endTime":300.395,"body":"that person to be that was very different"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":300.405,"endTime":302.294,"body":"from the player who was playing as Trout."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":302.345,"endTime":308.395,"body":"I wanted a loner who lived down there, who"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":302.345,"endTime":308.395,"body":"did not have a cult following them around."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":308.475,"endTime":311.914,"body":"I wanted just the one weird"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":308.475,"endTime":311.914,"body":"of the hermit down there."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":312.255,"endTime":318.405,"body":"And I also, at some point, this"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":312.255,"endTime":318.405,"body":"image popped into my head of someone"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":318.745,"endTime":324.205,"body":"in a gas mask and with a shopping"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":318.745,"endTime":324.205,"body":"cart joyfully walking through"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":324.215,"endTime":329.254,"body":"these mists looking for salvage and"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":324.215,"endTime":329.254,"body":"listening to music and jamming out."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":329.254,"endTime":332.734,"body":"I was listening to Channel Orange,"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":329.254,"endTime":332.734,"body":"the album a lot at the time."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":332.904,"endTime":337.174,"body":"And it's just this kind of  poppy"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":332.904,"endTime":337.174,"body":"but kind of sad Frank Ocean album"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":337.174,"endTime":338.394,"body":"that I think is really lovely."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":338.614,"endTime":341.904,"body":"And I had this image of this  gas"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":338.614,"endTime":341.904,"body":"masked person in these horrible"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":341.904,"endTime":346.814,"body":"circumstances,  jamming out to my"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":341.904,"endTime":346.814,"body":"favorite album, and walking around"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":346.864,"endTime":351.314,"body":"with a fire extinguisher that's been"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":346.864,"endTime":351.314,"body":"converted into an oxygen canister on"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":351.314,"endTime":357.624,"body":"their back a shopping cart full of you"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":351.314,"endTime":357.624,"body":"know, rebar and copper wire and stuff."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":358.024,"endTime":361.454,"body":"And I was, I want to play that character."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":361.864,"endTime":365.104,"body":"Another piece of apocalypse"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":361.864,"endTime":365.104,"body":"world for me is I'm obsessed"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":365.104,"endTime":366.944,"body":"with the savvy head playbook."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":366.964,"endTime":371.984,"body":"I really love this playbook that is all"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":366.964,"endTime":371.984,"body":"about talking to machines and not really"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":371.984,"endTime":376.824,"body":"understanding other people very well,"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":371.984,"endTime":376.824,"body":"but really understanding things and"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":376.824,"endTime":381.164,"body":"being able to do almost magical things"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":376.824,"endTime":381.164,"body":"with machines and workshops and devices."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":381.564,"endTime":386.084,"body":"And I knew I wasn't really going"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":381.564,"endTime":386.084,"body":"to get a chance to be that person"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":386.084,"endTime":389.734,"body":"because no one was out here interested"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":386.084,"endTime":389.734,"body":"in running Apocalypse World for me."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":389.794,"endTime":393.924,"body":"So I  had this whole vision for this,"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":389.794,"endTime":393.924,"body":"my version of this Trout character."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":394.189,"endTime":398.719,"body":"And because I'm a screenwriter, I was"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":394.189,"endTime":398.719,"body":", great, well, I'll just go write it."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":398.859,"endTime":403.549,"body":"I can't play this game with anyone,"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":398.859,"endTime":403.549,"body":"or it would be hard to put together"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":403.559,"endTime":405.289,"body":"the game that allowed me to do this."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":405.489,"endTime":409.729,"body":"But I'm gonna just go write my"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":405.489,"endTime":409.729,"body":"screenplay about this little guy."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":409.949,"endTime":411.129,"body":"And that's what I did."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":411.129,"endTime":412.479,"body":"I just started writing about it."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":412.529,"endTime":415.769,"body":"And so the character very much"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":412.529,"endTime":415.769,"body":"came out of, you know, all"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":415.769,"endTime":419.769,"body":"that background influence, but"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":415.769,"endTime":419.769,"body":"then Exit became this weirdo."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":420.164,"endTime":425.634,"body":"Who, you know, is in conversation"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":420.164,"endTime":425.634,"body":"with a leader in the skyscraper and"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":425.634,"endTime":429.464,"body":"is in conversation with the strange"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":425.634,"endTime":429.464,"body":"creatures that live down in the"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":429.464,"endTime":433.714,"body":"mist and who has a collection of"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":429.464,"endTime":433.714,"body":"traffic cones because traffic cones"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":433.714,"endTime":437.004,"body":"are neat and no one else wants them"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":433.714,"endTime":437.004,"body":"and they make a nice little hat."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":437.579,"endTime":440.469,"body":"And I, I just wanted to"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":437.579,"endTime":440.469,"body":"go explore all of that."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":440.479,"endTime":441.489,"body":"And so I did on my own."},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":441.779,"endTime":445.199,"body":"Is that something that you do"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":441.779,"endTime":445.199,"body":"a lot where you take a character that"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":445.199,"endTime":449.589,"body":"maybe you want to explore, but don't"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":445.199,"endTime":449.589,"body":"get the chance to within play and then"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":449.659,"endTime":453.879,"body":"write them into a screenplay or some,"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":449.659,"endTime":453.879,"body":"some sort of writing that you're doing?"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":454.059,"endTime":456.869,"body":"You know, I don't"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":454.059,"endTime":456.869,"body":"think it is that common for me."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":456.939,"endTime":462.399,"body":"I think it is not uncommon in my"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":456.939,"endTime":462.399,"body":"screenwriting that I'm starting with"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":462.609,"endTime":466.709,"body":"a character, but it's usually that I'm"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":462.609,"endTime":466.709,"body":"starting with a character relationship."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":466.839,"endTime":470.429,"body":"I think a character in isolation,"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":466.839,"endTime":470.429,"body":"I kind of said this before, it's"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":470.429,"endTime":472.289,"body":"just hard for me to conceptualize."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":472.289,"endTime":476.529,"body":"I think characters really"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":472.289,"endTime":476.529,"body":"come alive with context."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":476.839,"endTime":480.559,"body":"And so in a lot of ways, actually, the"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":476.839,"endTime":480.559,"body":"screenplay I started writing, about"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":480.579,"endTime":484.729,"body":"Exit came from me having this sort"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":480.579,"endTime":484.729,"body":"of vision for this person and then"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":484.729,"endTime":487.439,"body":"imagining a mentor figure for them."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":487.559,"endTime":492.589,"body":"Someone who lived up in civilization,"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":487.559,"endTime":492.589,"body":"who was not afraid of them everyone else,"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":492.619,"endTime":497.919,"body":"did not find them unnerving and who cared"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":492.619,"endTime":497.919,"body":"for them, who wanted to see what was best"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":497.919,"endTime":501.399,"body":"for them and thought that they were sort"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":497.919,"endTime":501.399,"body":"of being self destructive and destroying"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":501.399,"endTime":503.809,"body":"their life by living away by themselves."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":503.859,"endTime":507.689,"body":"And that mentor mentee kind of"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":503.859,"endTime":507.689,"body":"relationship, the sort of old person"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":507.689,"endTime":510.369,"body":"who thinks they know a little bit"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":507.689,"endTime":510.369,"body":"better, and the young person who's"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":510.369,"endTime":513.309,"body":"being a little self destructive, but,"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":510.369,"endTime":513.309,"body":"you gotta let them do their thing."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":513.479,"endTime":515.089,"body":"That relationship was really interesting."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":515.379,"endTime":519.109,"body":"And I've written a lot of other"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":515.379,"endTime":519.109,"body":"screenplays that sort of start with a"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":519.119,"endTime":524.969,"body":"relationship like that, but it's rare"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":519.119,"endTime":524.969,"body":"that that comes from an RPG moment."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":525.189,"endTime":528.739,"body":"Although, there are other"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":525.189,"endTime":528.739,"body":"things that come from RPGs and"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":528.739,"endTime":530.139,"body":"make it into my writing a lot."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":530.139,"endTime":533.849,"body":"I think big character"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":530.139,"endTime":533.849,"body":"decisions sometimes do."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":533.889,"endTime":539.859,"body":"I have an idea for a sort of Star"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":533.889,"endTime":539.859,"body":"Wars-y sci fi action movie that would"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":539.869,"endTime":544.919,"body":"be based on one character decision"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":539.869,"endTime":544.919,"body":"that someone made in a Scum and"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":544.919,"endTime":548.629,"body":"Villainy game that I was running"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":544.919,"endTime":548.629,"body":"that I thought was really powerful."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":548.859,"endTime":553.659,"body":"And also had this big action set"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":548.859,"endTime":553.659,"body":"piece attached to it that set up"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":553.659,"endTime":555.289,"body":"the moment of decision making."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":555.329,"endTime":558.469,"body":"And in some ways that's kind of"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":555.329,"endTime":558.469,"body":"bringing in the character, but I think"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":558.469,"endTime":561.869,"body":"it is more about, well, and what is"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":558.469,"endTime":561.869,"body":"a character, but the actions that"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":561.869,"endTime":565.319,"body":"they take in a lot of ways, at least"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":561.869,"endTime":565.319,"body":"when it comes to screenplays, that's"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":565.329,"endTime":566.739,"body":"something that we talk about a lot."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":567.029,"endTime":571.289,"body":"And so that, that is sort of a character"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":567.029,"endTime":571.289,"body":"coming in, but it is a lot less bringing"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":571.289,"endTime":576.679,"body":"in the accoutrement  around a character"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":571.289,"endTime":576.679,"body":"in the way that I did with Exit and that I"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":576.699,"endTime":579.799,"body":"think, you know, on this show, I've heard"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":576.699,"endTime":579.799,"body":"a lot of people talk about as being the"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":579.799,"endTime":582.029,"body":"sort of defining things for the character."},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":582.349,"endTime":584.149,"body":"Yeah, I think there's"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":582.349,"endTime":584.149,"body":"lots of different ways that"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":584.189,"endTime":585.979,"body":"that spark comes to people."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":586.099,"endTime":586.509,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":586.929,"endTime":590.379,"body":"I wanted to go back,"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":586.929,"endTime":590.379,"body":"you said something about Exit"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":590.399,"endTime":592.829,"body":"being scary or unnerving."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":593.219,"endTime":593.619,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":593.659,"endTime":595.189,"body":"What makes them unnerving?"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":595.219,"endTime":599.404,"body":"Yeah, I think In"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":595.219,"endTime":599.404,"body":"this world that my friends and I"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":599.414,"endTime":604.164,"body":"created, the mist down below these"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":599.414,"endTime":604.164,"body":"skyscrapers is this scary place to go."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":604.174,"endTime":608.854,"body":"If you go down there, you don't have"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":604.174,"endTime":608.854,"body":"a gas mask on, you come back sick."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":608.874,"endTime":610.374,"body":"You come back different."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":610.414,"endTime":611.684,"body":"You come back weird."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":612.004,"endTime":617.524,"body":"And, that's off putting especially"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":612.004,"endTime":617.524,"body":"in a world that's gonna feel"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":617.524,"endTime":619.204,"body":"so unstable to begin with."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":619.374,"endTime":624.214,"body":"I think most post apocalyptic kinds"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":619.374,"endTime":624.214,"body":"of settings tell stories about"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":624.234,"endTime":628.904,"body":"people trying to find safety and"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":624.234,"endTime":628.904,"body":"stability in a very uncertain world."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":628.964,"endTime":632.404,"body":"I think that's part of the reason"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":628.964,"endTime":632.404,"body":"they're so popular right now, you know?"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":632.484,"endTime":639.624,"body":"And people living in a world that,"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":632.484,"endTime":639.624,"body":"who see someone living on the"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":639.654,"endTime":645.904,"body":"edge, living outside of that safety"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":639.654,"endTime":645.904,"body":"deliberately, I think would be a very"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":645.964,"endTime":649.124,"body":"unnerving, unsettling kind of thing."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":649.514,"endTime":655.394,"body":"There was also a, an element, I created"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":649.514,"endTime":655.394,"body":"this job for Exit of, alright, let's"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":655.394,"endTime":656.854,"body":"get into my weird world building."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":656.854,"endTime":662.054,"body":"So at the bottom of the skyscraper,"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":656.854,"endTime":662.054,"body":"there's sort of two classes of people."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":662.084,"endTime":666.974,"body":"There's a hard holder who kind"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":662.084,"endTime":666.974,"body":"of runs a marketplace for anyone"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":666.974,"endTime":668.294,"body":"in the skyscraper to come to."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":668.614,"endTime":677.574,"body":"And he and his people rent out shopping"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":668.614,"endTime":677.574,"body":"carts to scavengers who then go down the"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":677.574,"endTime":681.904,"body":"elevators out into the mist and  come"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":677.574,"endTime":681.904,"body":"back with stuff to sell at the market."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":681.934,"endTime":685.364,"body":"And then the hard holder takes a"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":681.934,"endTime":685.364,"body":"cut of whatever they bring back."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":685.734,"endTime":688.619,"body":"And so the scavengers all resent"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":685.734,"endTime":688.619,"body":"him because he's exploiting them."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":688.899,"endTime":695.449,"body":"And Exit is the best of these"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":688.899,"endTime":695.449,"body":"scavengers, the most reliably good at"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":695.459,"endTime":698.289,"body":"bringing back a good haul of salvage."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":698.329,"endTime":703.099,"body":"So there's a lot of resentment towards"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":698.329,"endTime":703.099,"body":"them for being better than anyone"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":703.099,"endTime":704.839,"body":"else at this and refusing to share."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":705.949,"endTime":709.629,"body":"They have found that they don't"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":705.949,"endTime":709.629,"body":"fit in well with the scavengers,"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":709.629,"endTime":713.049,"body":"they don't fit well with the"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":709.629,"endTime":713.049,"body":"hard hold or any of those people."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":713.069,"endTime":716.319,"body":"They just doing their own"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":713.069,"endTime":716.319,"body":"thing on their own and being"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":716.359,"endTime":718.139,"body":"extraordinarily good at their job."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":718.449,"endTime":722.649,"body":"And I think all of those things"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":718.449,"endTime":722.649,"body":"put together lead to a very"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":722.729,"endTime":726.189,"body":"outsider-y status and a lack of"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":722.729,"endTime":726.189,"body":"understanding from everyone else."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":726.439,"endTime":730.879,"body":"This scavenger society is so built"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":726.439,"endTime":730.879,"body":"around all supporting each other"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":730.899,"endTime":732.599,"body":"because there's so little to go around."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":732.809,"endTime":738.624,"body":"And someone who has told that sentiment"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":732.809,"endTime":738.624,"body":"to fuck off because they're not treating"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":738.664,"endTime":743.304,"body":"Exit well is not a person that anyone"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":738.664,"endTime":743.304,"body":"understands or wants to have around."},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":743.354,"endTime":743.934,"body":"Hmm."},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":744.194,"endTime":748.554,"body":"What's interesting to me about"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":744.194,"endTime":748.554,"body":"post apocalyptic stories is often"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":748.554,"endTime":754.194,"body":"this kind of push pull between"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":748.554,"endTime":754.194,"body":"individualism and being selfish."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":754.344,"endTime":754.907,"body":"Hmm."},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":754.907,"endTime":759.527,"body":"And contributing to any sort"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":754.907,"endTime":759.527,"body":"of collective, whatever kind of"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":759.547,"endTime":764.537,"body":"outpost people have been able to form"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":759.547,"endTime":764.537,"body":"in, in this troubled world, which"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":764.547,"endTime":768.817,"body":"also makes me think God, I can't"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":764.547,"endTime":768.817,"body":"remember the name of the movie is."},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":769.067,"endTime":770.197,"body":"High Rise?"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":770.387,"endTime":773.207,"body":"That takes place in a"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":770.387,"endTime":773.207,"body":"single apartment building."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":773.647,"endTime":776.877,"body":"Been on my to"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":773.647,"endTime":776.877,"body":"watch list for a long time."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":776.917,"endTime":779.147,"body":"I'm intending to watch"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":776.917,"endTime":779.147,"body":"it next week, actually."},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":779.217,"endTime":782.267,"body":"Yeah, I think it's"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":779.217,"endTime":782.267,"body":"interesting because that movie"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":782.267,"endTime":783.727,"body":"is very much about class."},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":783.757,"endTime":788.477,"body":"And I think when you're talking about this"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":783.757,"endTime":788.477,"body":"apartment building and the relationship,"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":788.507,"endTime":791.797,"body":"the proximity to this dangerous mist."},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":792.047,"endTime":795.567,"body":"Is there sort of a, that kind of"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":792.047,"endTime":795.567,"body":"stratification within this building?"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":795.617,"endTime":796.877,"body":"Yeah, absolutely."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":796.877,"endTime":801.957,"body":"I had a friend describe this world as"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":796.877,"endTime":801.957,"body":"vertical Snowpiercer, which having not"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":801.957,"endTime":805.287,"body":"seen High Rise, we were not thinking"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":801.957,"endTime":805.287,"body":"about Snowpiercer specifically as"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":805.287,"endTime":806.987,"body":"we were building this world out."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":806.987,"endTime":811.707,"body":"But I, yeah in retrospect was, oh"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":806.987,"endTime":811.707,"body":"yeah, that is absolutely the vibe."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":811.927,"endTime":816.957,"body":"There's this kind of silliness that"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":811.927,"endTime":816.957,"body":"Snowpiercer has definitely kind of"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":816.967,"endTime":821.237,"body":"influenced this world, even though a lot"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":816.967,"endTime":821.237,"body":"of that silliness is sort of underneath"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":821.507,"endTime":823.627,"body":"horrible darkness in Snowpiercer."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":823.867,"endTime":828.257,"body":"But it has that same thing of major"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":823.867,"endTime":828.257,"body":"class stratification, impending"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":828.287,"endTime":834.277,"body":"revolt, and just outside the walls of"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":828.287,"endTime":834.277,"body":"the train, life cannot exist anymore."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":834.457,"endTime":837.367,"body":"You're all really trapped"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":834.457,"endTime":837.367,"body":"in a box together."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":837.427,"endTime":840.567,"body":"And that's very much the kind"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":837.427,"endTime":840.567,"body":"of powder keg that I wanted"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":840.597,"endTime":841.652,"body":"to create with this world."},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":842.102,"endTime":847.002,"body":"Let's back up a little bit to"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":842.102,"endTime":847.002,"body":"Apocalypse World, which is the originator"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":847.002,"endTime":852.072,"body":"for the Powered by the Apocalypse"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":847.002,"endTime":852.072,"body":"system, which is now incredibly"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":852.072,"endTime":855.052,"body":"ubiquitous as a mechanical system."},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":855.082,"endTime":856.522,"body":"What is Apocalypse World?"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":857.187,"endTime":860.877,"body":"Apocalypse World is a"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":857.187,"endTime":860.877,"body":"game by Vincent Baker and Maguey Baker,"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":860.877,"endTime":864.507,"body":"published in 2010, and everything"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":860.877,"endTime":864.507,"body":"you said about it is true, it is"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":864.547,"endTime":868.287,"body":"the first powered by the Apocalypse"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":864.547,"endTime":868.287,"body":"game, it is the Apocalypse that"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":868.317,"endTime":873.807,"body":"other games are powered by, and it is"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":868.317,"endTime":873.807,"body":"explicitly a post apocalyptic game."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":874.057,"endTime":879.247,"body":"but it doesn't do a lot more to"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":874.057,"endTime":879.247,"body":"decide what the apocalypse looks like."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":879.247,"endTime":881.287,"body":"It leaves that up to your table."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":881.327,"endTime":887.437,"body":"But it does indicate that in your"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":881.327,"endTime":887.437,"body":"world is a psychic maelstrom."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":887.477,"endTime":888.937,"body":"It doesn't tell you what that is."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":888.947,"endTime":891.317,"body":"It gives you some tools for"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":888.947,"endTime":891.317,"body":"sort of interrogating what your"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":891.317,"endTime":892.637,"body":"psychic maelstrom might be."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":892.977,"endTime":899.632,"body":"But it is explicitly a sort of"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":892.977,"endTime":899.632,"body":"social and emotional apocalypse"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":899.822,"endTime":904.782,"body":"that you are living through, not"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":899.822,"endTime":904.782,"body":"just a external world apocalypse."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":904.892,"endTime":909.662,"body":"And I find that this game is really"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":904.892,"endTime":909.662,"body":"interesting for a lot of reasons."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":909.672,"endTime":913.892,"body":"The voice of the book is incredible,"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":909.672,"endTime":913.892,"body":"it has some of the best sort of"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":913.892,"endTime":918.622,"body":"generic GM advice I've ever read,"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":913.892,"endTime":918.622,"body":"but it is also notable, I think,"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":918.632,"endTime":924.022,"body":"for the way it centers the kinds of"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":918.632,"endTime":924.022,"body":"characters, it makes you as players"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":924.042,"endTime":930.212,"body":"take on the roles of characters who in"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":924.042,"endTime":930.212,"body":"many older RPGs would have been NPCs."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":930.212,"endTime":937.147,"body":"One of the main playbooks is The maestro"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":930.212,"endTime":937.147,"body":"D who owns a bar or the hard holder"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":937.247,"endTime":941.387,"body":"who I mentioned earlier who just is the"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":937.247,"endTime":941.387,"body":"local mayor, basically the person who's"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":941.387,"endTime":945.587,"body":"running the local community you're a"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":941.387,"endTime":945.587,"body":"part of and you can be a cult leader"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":945.597,"endTime":948.937,"body":"right and have a bunch of followers you"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":945.597,"endTime":948.937,"body":"can be a gang leader and have a bunch"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":948.937,"endTime":955.887,"body":"of followers and all of those kinds of"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":948.937,"endTime":955.887,"body":"people would typically be the people back"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":955.927,"endTime":958.867,"body":"in town while you are out adventuring."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":958.907,"endTime":963.397,"body":"And instead, in this game, you are playing"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":958.907,"endTime":963.397,"body":"as those people and making hard decisions"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":963.427,"endTime":970.967,"body":"about scarcity and relationships, and"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":963.427,"endTime":970.967,"body":"how you are going to make a place for"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":970.967,"endTime":974.417,"body":"yourself in the world, and what you"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":970.967,"endTime":974.417,"body":"are going to choose to prioritize."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":974.867,"endTime":979.987,"body":"So, in this game, you're less of"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":974.867,"endTime":979.987,"body":"a roving band of adventurers and"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":979.987,"endTime":985.367,"body":"more part of a community that"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":979.987,"endTime":985.367,"body":"then would kind of venture into."},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":985.527,"endTime":989.767,"body":"I imagine you want to, in this"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":985.527,"endTime":989.767,"body":"game, venture into this psychic maelstrom,"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":989.777,"endTime":991.367,"body":"because otherwise, why is it there, right?"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":991.797,"endTime":994.957,"body":"Yeah, but the psychic"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":991.797,"endTime":994.957,"body":"maelstrom, maybe it's everywhere."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":995.447,"endTime":998.257,"body":"Maybe it only exists in"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":995.447,"endTime":998.257,"body":"the hard holder's basement."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":999.507,"endTime":1003.317,"body":"But also maybe it exists all"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":999.507,"endTime":1003.317,"body":"around you and it's truly psychic."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1003.337,"endTime":1005.977,"body":"Or maybe it's the"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1003.337,"endTime":1005.977,"body":"leftovers of the internet."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1006.027,"endTime":1007.047,"body":"It's the matrix."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1007.077,"endTime":1009.867,"body":"Or maybe it's an alien technology."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1009.867,"endTime":1012.397,"body":"It can be really whatever"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1009.867,"endTime":1012.397,"body":"you want it to be."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1012.537,"endTime":1015.947,"body":"In our case it was whatever is"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1012.537,"endTime":1015.947,"body":"down there in the mist, right?"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1015.987,"endTime":1020.482,"body":"But yeah, it is a game in which,"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1015.987,"endTime":1020.482,"body":"yes, Probably the story is going"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1020.482,"endTime":1025.292,"body":"to take you away from town, but"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1020.482,"endTime":1025.292,"body":"probably you are leaving town because"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1025.292,"endTime":1027.722,"body":"you have to in order to save town."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1027.722,"endTime":1030.482,"body":"You're not going to the"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1027.722,"endTime":1030.482,"body":"next place for loot."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1030.702,"endTime":1034.212,"body":"You're not going to the next place"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1030.702,"endTime":1034.212,"body":"to travel or see what's out there."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1034.412,"endTime":1040.072,"body":"You're going one town over, because"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1034.412,"endTime":1040.072,"body":"there's a cold war brewing between"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1040.072,"endTime":1042.532,"body":"your two towns and you want to"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1040.072,"endTime":1042.532,"body":"make peace and then you want to"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1042.532,"endTime":1044.752,"body":"go home and have it be peaceful."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1045.012,"endTime":1051.012,"body":"Or you're venturing out to the solar"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1045.012,"endTime":1051.012,"body":"panel fields out in the wastes that"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1051.052,"endTime":1054.272,"body":"have started malfunctioning and"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1051.052,"endTime":1054.272,"body":"someone needs to check on them."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1054.312,"endTime":1057.382,"body":"It's much more community"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1054.312,"endTime":1057.382,"body":"centered, I think."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1057.502,"endTime":1061.952,"body":"You are going to spend a lot more"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1057.502,"endTime":1061.952,"body":"time talking with people around town"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1061.972,"endTime":1066.342,"body":"and dealing with their various wants"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1061.972,"endTime":1066.342,"body":"and needs then you are going to be"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1066.342,"endTime":1067.442,"body":"dealing with practical problems."},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":1068.152,"endTime":1071.452,"body":"So it sounds  there's an element"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":1068.152,"endTime":1071.452,"body":"of world building that's built into"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":1071.452,"endTime":1076.652,"body":"the game where collectively the"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":1071.452,"endTime":1076.652,"body":"players and the game runner are"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":1076.712,"endTime":1080.002,"body":"working together to build the world"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":1076.712,"endTime":1080.002,"body":"that their characters are placed in."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1080.012,"endTime":1081.252,"body":"Very much so."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1081.312,"endTime":1086.632,"body":"Yeah, the game is very explicit"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1081.312,"endTime":1086.632,"body":"that no one, not even the GM Master"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1086.632,"endTime":1090.842,"body":"of Ceremonies or MC in Apocalypse"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1086.632,"endTime":1090.842,"body":"World, not even the MC should show up"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1090.852,"endTime":1094.672,"body":"with any kind of idea about what the"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1090.852,"endTime":1094.672,"body":"world looks or what they want to do."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1094.922,"endTime":1100.887,"body":"It just tells you before your first"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1094.922,"endTime":1100.887,"body":"session to daydream, to just, imagine"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1101.077,"endTime":1106.307,"body":"cool apocalyptic ideas and images,"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1101.077,"endTime":1106.307,"body":"and then bring a few, don't lock"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1106.307,"endTime":1110.677,"body":"anything in, but workshop with your"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1106.307,"endTime":1110.677,"body":"table to find what you think is cool."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1110.717,"endTime":1116.117,"body":"And every time I have gotten to play"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1110.717,"endTime":1116.117,"body":"this game, we have ended up in a unique,"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1116.387,"endTime":1120.107,"body":"really compelling post apocalyptic world."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1120.687,"endTime":1125.827,"body":"To me, it seems  building a character"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1120.687,"endTime":1125.827,"body":"for Apocalypse World, or probably"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1125.827,"endTime":1129.827,"body":"a lot of Powered by the Apocalypse"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1125.827,"endTime":1129.827,"body":"games, is really contextual."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1129.867,"endTime":1134.777,"body":"It's not something that you"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1129.867,"endTime":1134.777,"body":"would often do as a solo player."},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":1134.987,"endTime":1137.227,"body":"You're not bringing"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":1134.987,"endTime":1137.227,"body":"in something fully realized."},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":1137.237,"endTime":1139.957,"body":"You're coming to the table"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":1137.237,"endTime":1139.957,"body":"with something sketchy."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1139.977,"endTime":1144.987,"body":"Yeah, it's definitely"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1139.977,"endTime":1144.987,"body":"a game that encourages you to do that,"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1145.027,"endTime":1151.747,"body":"to come in with ideas, but to be really"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1145.027,"endTime":1151.747,"body":"open to whatever ideas everyone else is"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1151.747,"endTime":1157.317,"body":"coming in with and whatever riffs on your"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1151.747,"endTime":1157.317,"body":"ideas other people take and run with."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1157.427,"endTime":1163.077,"body":"I will say the playbooks are fairly strong"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1157.427,"endTime":1163.077,"body":"character archetypes in their own right."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1163.462,"endTime":1167.092,"body":"I think I've made it clear at this"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1163.462,"endTime":1167.092,"body":"point that I think building out a"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1167.092,"endTime":1170.922,"body":"world really helps you flesh out your"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1167.092,"endTime":1170.922,"body":"Apocalypse World character and it"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1170.932,"endTime":1174.602,"body":"really helps you flesh out whatever"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1170.932,"endTime":1174.602,"body":"game character you're coming up with, or"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1174.602,"endTime":1176.462,"body":"story character you're thinking about."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1176.492,"endTime":1181.312,"body":"But it is also true that if you just"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1176.492,"endTime":1181.312,"body":"sat down and filled out the Hardholder"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1181.362,"endTime":1185.717,"body":"playbook without a world, First of all,"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1181.362,"endTime":1185.717,"body":"you would start making some decisions"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1185.727,"endTime":1188.637,"body":"about the world as you filled out the"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1185.727,"endTime":1188.637,"body":"playbook because you would have to,"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1188.637,"endTime":1190.477,"body":"and the playbook prompts you to do so."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1190.777,"endTime":1194.597,"body":"But you would also make some"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1190.777,"endTime":1194.597,"body":"character choices that give you"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1194.597,"endTime":1197.447,"body":"a cool person that you might be"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1194.597,"endTime":1197.447,"body":"able to drop into any campaign."},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":1198.072,"endTime":1198.852,"body":"We're talking about playbooks."},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":1198.852,"endTime":1205.802,"body":"Playbooks are kind of a collection of"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":1198.852,"endTime":1205.802,"body":"tropes that are genre specific, usually."},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":1205.842,"endTime":1208.282,"body":"What is the playbook that"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":1205.842,"endTime":1208.282,"body":"you're using for this character?"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1208.522,"endTime":1212.062,"body":"So, Exit never"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1208.522,"endTime":1212.062,"body":"got a playbook really explicitly"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1212.062,"endTime":1215.267,"body":"because they started as Trout."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1215.307,"endTime":1218.957,"body":"The character that Exit is based"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1215.307,"endTime":1218.957,"body":"on started as the Hocus, who"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1218.957,"endTime":1222.687,"body":"is basically a cult leader from"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1218.957,"endTime":1222.687,"body":"Apocalypse World 2nd edition."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1222.697,"endTime":1226.377,"body":"But the playbook that I was always"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1222.697,"endTime":1226.377,"body":"really excited about, that I"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1226.377,"endTime":1229.977,"body":"mentioned earlier, was the Savvy"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1226.377,"endTime":1229.977,"body":"Head, who is more of a tech person."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1230.067,"endTime":1234.647,"body":"I don't have an actual character"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1230.067,"endTime":1234.647,"body":"sheet for Exit, but I conceive of"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1234.647,"endTime":1236.457,"body":"them as a Savvy Head in the world."},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":1236.977,"endTime":1240.487,"body":"What are the choices"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":1236.977,"endTime":1240.487,"body":"that the game asks you to make"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":1240.527,"endTime":1241.867,"body":"when building a character?"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1242.267,"endTime":1245.087,"body":"That is a great"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1242.267,"endTime":1245.087,"body":"question that I am so glad you asked."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1245.357,"endTime":1249.317,"body":"So each of these playbooks"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1245.357,"endTime":1249.317,"body":"is kind of double sided."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1249.832,"endTime":1254.282,"body":"And the front side has stats and moves."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1254.302,"endTime":1256.982,"body":"If you're not familiar with Apocalypse"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1254.302,"endTime":1256.982,"body":"World and Powered by the Apocalypse"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1256.982,"endTime":1262.362,"body":"Games, each move is a special ability,"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1256.982,"endTime":1262.362,"body":"essentially, that triggers under some sort"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1262.362,"endTime":1265.562,"body":"of specific circumstances in this story."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1265.772,"endTime":1269.582,"body":"So one of the Savvy Head"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1265.772,"endTime":1269.582,"body":"moves is Oftener Right."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1269.782,"endTime":1272.362,"body":"When a character comes to you"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1269.782,"endTime":1272.362,"body":"for advice, tell them what you"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1272.382,"endTime":1274.162,"body":"honestly think the best course is."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1274.282,"endTime":1277.422,"body":"If they do it, they take plus one"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1274.282,"endTime":1277.422,"body":"to any rules they make in the doing,"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1277.562,"endTime":1279.102,"body":"and you mark an experience circle."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1279.132,"endTime":1279.412,"body":"Cool."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1279.592,"endTime":1280.572,"body":"Pretty self explanatory."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1280.782,"endTime":1281.992,"body":"Some of them are a lot longer than that."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1281.992,"endTime":1282.992,"body":"Some of them are a little shorter."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1283.042,"endTime":1283.352,"body":"Whatever."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1283.382,"endTime":1287.052,"body":"When you're making a Savvy Head, you are"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1283.382,"endTime":1287.052,"body":"choosing your moves, you're choosing your"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1287.052,"endTime":1291.642,"body":"stats, and you're doing all the sort of"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1287.052,"endTime":1291.642,"body":"normal stuff of choosing a name, choosing"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1291.642,"endTime":1297.107,"body":"some gear, choosing, in a Savvy Head's"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1291.642,"endTime":1297.107,"body":"case, projects that you're working on and"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1297.237,"endTime":1301.767,"body":"your look, of course, as with  basically"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1297.237,"endTime":1301.767,"body":"any character the thing that I love"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1301.767,"endTime":1306.047,"body":"about Apocalypse World and many powered"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1301.767,"endTime":1306.047,"body":"by the Apocalypse games is how it gives"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1306.047,"endTime":1308.477,"body":"you pick lists for all these things."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1308.867,"endTime":1313.647,"body":"It's the savvy head has a list of"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1308.867,"endTime":1313.647,"body":"names here Leah, Joshua, Ty, Ethan,"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1313.657,"endTime":1316.626,"body":"Brand, Jeremy and so on and so forth."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1316.626,"endTime":1319.512,"body":"And the look is man, woman,"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1316.626,"endTime":1319.512,"body":"ambiguous or transgressing."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1319.952,"endTime":1324.622,"body":"Utility wear plus tech scrounge wear plus"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1319.952,"endTime":1324.622,"body":"tech vintage wear plus tech tech wear."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1324.782,"endTime":1325.282,"body":"Okay, cool."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1325.282,"endTime":1327.552,"body":"Apparently gonna be a techie,"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1325.282,"endTime":1327.552,"body":"but then it gives you options for"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1327.552,"endTime":1330.202,"body":"your face, your eyes, your body."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1330.252,"endTime":1337.012,"body":"It gives you these little bits of"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1330.252,"endTime":1337.012,"body":"character I might have a hunched body."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1337.462,"endTime":1342.242,"body":"that really let you kind of run"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1337.462,"endTime":1342.242,"body":"with the details in a fun direction."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1342.622,"endTime":1344.802,"body":"Hunched body is such a mood."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1345.162,"endTime":1349.892,"body":"It's not my entire character, but by"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1345.162,"endTime":1349.892,"body":"just circling hunched body on this"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1349.922,"endTime":1356.442,"body":"list of options, along with, let's say,"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1349.922,"endTime":1356.442,"body":"dancing eyes and a pretty face, that"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1356.442,"endTime":1361.122,"body":"person is coming together really quickly"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1356.442,"endTime":1361.122,"body":"after just three choices on how I look."},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":1361.537,"endTime":1366.857,"body":"So, if you're interested, listeners,"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":1361.537,"endTime":1366.857,"body":"in delving deeper into picklists Sam, you"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":1366.857,"endTime":1368.617,"body":"did an episode about picklists, right?"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1368.667,"endTime":1370.177,"body":"We did do"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1368.667,"endTime":1370.177,"body":"an episode about picklists."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1370.217,"endTime":1373.847,"body":"Me and my friend, Ash Kreider,"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1370.217,"endTime":1373.847,"body":"specifically started by talking about"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1373.847,"endTime":1376.547,"body":"the gender picklists in Apocalypse World."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1376.657,"endTime":1377.212,"body":"And that's it."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1378.512,"endTime":1380.272,"body":"And we had a lot to say."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1380.462,"endTime":1384.132,"body":"By the time this releases, it's likely"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1380.462,"endTime":1384.132,"body":"I'll also have put out an episode"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1384.162,"endTime":1389.842,"body":"about random tables and random lists,"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1384.162,"endTime":1389.842,"body":"which I think are really closely"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1389.842,"endTime":1391.882,"body":"related and also very interesting."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1391.892,"endTime":1395.072,"body":"And of course, you know, if you're"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1391.892,"endTime":1395.072,"body":"looking at your savvy head and"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1395.072,"endTime":1398.462,"body":"you're, I know I want cool eyes, but"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1395.072,"endTime":1398.462,"body":"which of these cool eyes do I want?"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1398.482,"endTime":1402.742,"body":"You can always just roll a die and turn"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1398.482,"endTime":1402.742,"body":"the pick list into a random list, right?"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1403.257,"endTime":1405.627,"body":"We had a lot to say about"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1403.257,"endTime":1405.627,"body":"picklists and the beauty of them."},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":1406.087,"endTime":1410.457,"body":"You said that Exit, their"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":1406.087,"endTime":1410.457,"body":"job, is essentially salvage."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1410.647,"endTime":1410.997,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":1411.237,"endTime":1414.037,"body":"What made them good at their job?"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":1414.267,"endTime":1415.307,"body":"How did they get good at it?"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1415.367,"endTime":1417.477,"body":"I don't know that I've"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1415.367,"endTime":1417.477,"body":"ever thought about that question."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1417.537,"endTime":1421.217,"body":"I always a little bit conceived of"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1417.537,"endTime":1421.217,"body":"them as just sort of naturally good at"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1421.647,"endTime":1426.277,"body":"it, naturally someone who is a little"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1421.647,"endTime":1426.277,"body":"bit less social and a little bit more"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1426.277,"endTime":1431.857,"body":"interested in things, who just has a keen"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1426.277,"endTime":1431.857,"body":"eye for how to take something apart and"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1431.857,"endTime":1436.637,"body":"put it back together and what makes it"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1431.857,"endTime":1436.637,"body":"valuable or useful in the first place."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1436.687,"endTime":1442.117,"body":"And then I also think of them as"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1436.687,"endTime":1442.117,"body":"someone who is just not afraid"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1442.157,"endTime":1446.777,"body":"of these mists in the same way as"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1442.157,"endTime":1446.777,"body":"other people, whose brain has always"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1446.787,"endTime":1448.987,"body":"worked a little bit differently."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1449.417,"endTime":1454.917,"body":"And as a result is maybe less affected"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1449.417,"endTime":1454.917,"body":"by whatever's going on in these mists and"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1454.917,"endTime":1460.297,"body":"maybe just doesn't care as much or maybe"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1454.917,"endTime":1460.297,"body":"has already been affected by the mists."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1460.687,"endTime":1464.657,"body":"And as a result just feels more"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1460.687,"endTime":1464.657,"body":"comfortable out there and has"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1464.657,"endTime":1467.897,"body":"been more willing to just put"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1464.657,"endTime":1467.897,"body":"in the reps to get the practice."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1468.097,"endTime":1471.117,"body":"Whereas for anyone else, putting"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1468.097,"endTime":1471.117,"body":"on a suit and going down there"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1471.117,"endTime":1472.767,"body":"is kind of a scary experience."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1473.222,"endTime":1477.842,"body":"Exit always was someone who was"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1473.222,"endTime":1477.842,"body":"I'll go take a look around, why not?"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1478.372,"endTime":1480.032,"body":"That's how I make my money, it's my job."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1480.182,"endTime":1482.212,"body":"It's fun to come back with some prizes."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1482.272,"endTime":1485.612,"body":"And that lack of fear I think is really"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1482.272,"endTime":1485.612,"body":"the thing that puts them up at the top."},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":1485.892,"endTime":1487.682,"body":"Do you think they were always brave?"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1487.892,"endTime":1488.642,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1490.022,"endTime":1493.092,"body":"Now we are digging down into the"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1490.022,"endTime":1493.092,"body":"questions that are actually about"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1493.092,"endTime":1495.662,"body":"me that I didn't realize were about"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1493.092,"endTime":1495.662,"body":"me until I started answering them."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1496.852,"endTime":1498.502,"body":"I have Crohn's disease, right?"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1498.552,"endTime":1501.982,"body":"I grew up with this chronic"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1498.552,"endTime":1501.982,"body":"health condition that was really"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1501.982,"endTime":1505.292,"body":"hard to deal with and that I"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1501.982,"endTime":1505.292,"body":"spent a lot of time in hospitals."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1505.397,"endTime":1509.067,"body":"As a result of, and I"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1505.397,"endTime":1509.067,"body":"never really felt afraid."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1509.097,"endTime":1514.557,"body":"I never really, it was just a thing I had"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1509.097,"endTime":1514.557,"body":"to do, you know, there's this, everyone"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1514.557,"endTime":1518.407,"body":"comes and tells you when you're sick, Oh,"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1514.557,"endTime":1518.407,"body":"you're so brave for getting through this."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1518.407,"endTime":1519.777,"body":"You're doing such a good job."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1519.917,"endTime":1521.087,"body":"At least that's what they told me."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1521.377,"endTime":1524.597,"body":"And I was always, yeah, what would you do?"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1525.247,"endTime":1528.557,"body":"I don't know, I could be"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1525.247,"endTime":1528.557,"body":"scared, but this is just what's"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1528.567,"endTime":1530.107,"body":"happening in my life right now."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1530.117,"endTime":1532.517,"body":"I want to keep living,"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1530.117,"endTime":1532.517,"body":"so I'm going to do it."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1532.557,"endTime":1539.907,"body":"And I still to this day sort of don't"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1532.557,"endTime":1539.907,"body":"know whether I got through that and"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1539.907,"endTime":1544.947,"body":"felt that way because I genuinely"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1539.907,"endTime":1544.947,"body":"wasn't afraid or because I took all"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1544.947,"endTime":1546.687,"body":"that fear and repressed it way down."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1546.727,"endTime":1549.342,"body":"And I suspect that it's"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1546.727,"endTime":1549.342,"body":"a little bit of both."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1549.382,"endTime":1554.082,"body":"I think I am a person who just isn't as"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1549.382,"endTime":1554.082,"body":"afraid of my body and afraid of doctors"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1554.082,"endTime":1557.592,"body":"and afraid of  what might happen in"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1554.082,"endTime":1557.592,"body":"the future as other people might be."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1557.962,"endTime":1561.722,"body":"And you know, as a teen, I was, well,"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1557.962,"endTime":1561.722,"body":"yeah, I'm very sick right now, but also"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1561.722,"endTime":1564.112,"body":"I'm immortal because I am a teenager."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1564.422,"endTime":1568.712,"body":"And so I think maybe I had less fear"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1564.422,"endTime":1568.712,"body":"than adults did for me because of that."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1568.732,"endTime":1574.832,"body":"But it's also the case that, undoubtedly,"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1568.732,"endTime":1574.832,"body":"some of what I needed to do to get through"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1574.832,"endTime":1579.172,"body":"that experience was to just kind of"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1574.832,"endTime":1579.172,"body":"shove it all down and not deal with it."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1580.397,"endTime":1583.607,"body":"That's something that I see"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1580.397,"endTime":1583.607,"body":"in Exit the same way, right?"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1583.607,"endTime":1586.967,"body":"This is someone who's in really terrible"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1583.607,"endTime":1586.967,"body":"circumstances, who, this didn't even"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1586.967,"endTime":1590.477,"body":"make it into the script that I wrote,"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1586.967,"endTime":1590.477,"body":"but I have this idea that they had a"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1590.477,"endTime":1596.577,"body":"mentor who was a tinkerer, who ultimately"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1590.477,"endTime":1596.577,"body":"went into debt and had to let them go."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1596.617,"endTime":1601.957,"body":"And that meant sort of exiling them"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1596.617,"endTime":1601.957,"body":"down into a lower class of people."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1602.007,"endTime":1606.247,"body":"And that, that would have been"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1602.007,"endTime":1606.247,"body":"extremely hard for Exit to deal with."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1606.327,"endTime":1610.652,"body":"And part of why they didn't"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1606.327,"endTime":1610.652,"body":"fit in with the scavenger"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1610.672,"endTime":1612.072,"body":"community that they ended up in."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1612.422,"endTime":1615.882,"body":"And coming to terms with all of"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1612.422,"endTime":1615.882,"body":"that would have been a process full"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1615.882,"endTime":1617.922,"body":"of emotional repression for Exit."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1618.062,"endTime":1619.432,"body":"So were they afraid?"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1619.452,"endTime":1620.712,"body":"Yeah, definitely."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1621.002,"endTime":1624.462,"body":"But I think that they learned"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1621.002,"endTime":1624.462,"body":"how to stop feeling that."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1624.817,"endTime":1626.847,"body":"and never learned how to start again."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1627.087,"endTime":1629.397,"body":"And that comes with benefits"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1627.087,"endTime":1629.397,"body":"and that comes with drawbacks."},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":1629.457,"endTime":1632.727,"body":"I can imagine that it could be"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":1629.457,"endTime":1632.727,"body":"dangerous to your own safety if you're"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":1632.727,"endTime":1635.117,"body":"not afraid to go into a dangerous mist."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1635.267,"endTime":1636.097,"body":"Yeah, yeah."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1636.127,"endTime":1641.537,"body":"But it could also be bad for you if"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1636.127,"endTime":1641.537,"body":"your only way of supporting yourself"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1641.537,"endTime":1645.247,"body":"in the world is to go down there"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1641.537,"endTime":1645.247,"body":"into the mist and you're terrible"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1645.247,"endTime":1646.187,"body":"at it because you're terrified."},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":1646.847,"endTime":1647.777,"body":"Yeah, that's true."},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":1648.157,"endTime":1652.977,"body":"You said that for you, part of"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":1648.157,"endTime":1652.977,"body":"the bravery came from being young."},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":1653.367,"endTime":1654.257,"body":"Is Exit young?"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1654.622,"endTime":1657.452,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1654.622,"endTime":1657.452,"body":"Exit's 19, real young."},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":1658.062,"endTime":1661.572,"body":"We haven't really talked about just"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":1658.062,"endTime":1661.572,"body":"kind of the basics for this character,"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":1661.572,"endTime":1666.742,"body":"and I know probably some of these may come"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":1661.572,"endTime":1666.742,"body":"out in play and not really be decided yet."},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":1666.982,"endTime":1670.902,"body":"One of the things I often ask about is"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":1666.982,"endTime":1670.902,"body":"the character's sexuality, and that's"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":1671.292,"endTime":1675.082,"body":"oftentimes what I hear from people is"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":1671.292,"endTime":1675.082,"body":"that's something they haven't decided."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1675.232,"endTime":1675.802,"body":"Oh, yeah."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1675.862,"endTime":1676.502,"body":"Exit."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1676.532,"endTime":1678.112,"body":"I do know these things about Exit."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1678.112,"endTime":1682.042,"body":"I think I found some of these out in"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1678.112,"endTime":1682.042,"body":"the play of writing a screenplay, right?"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1682.802,"endTime":1686.202,"body":"Exit is explicitly non binary"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1682.802,"endTime":1686.202,"body":"and uses they them pronouns."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1686.522,"endTime":1691.312,"body":"And Exit is largely"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1686.522,"endTime":1691.312,"body":"not concerned with sex."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1691.362,"endTime":1695.117,"body":"I think largely because they"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1691.362,"endTime":1695.117,"body":"don't  like people, but I don't"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1695.117,"endTime":1697.747,"body":"conceive of them as asexual."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1697.797,"endTime":1704.177,"body":"I think that they are open to anyone"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1697.797,"endTime":1704.177,"body":"who meets their exacting high standards."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1704.217,"endTime":1708.157,"body":"I mentioned this kind of mentor"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1704.217,"endTime":1708.157,"body":"relationship earlier, and I see them as"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1708.167,"endTime":1714.257,"body":"having a crush on this mentor figure who"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1708.167,"endTime":1714.257,"body":"is probably too old for them, but close"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1714.257,"endTime":1719.367,"body":"enough that, you know, maybe you could"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1714.257,"endTime":1719.367,"body":"fantasize about it, and who is one of the"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1719.367,"endTime":1722.587,"body":"only other people around to Exit respects."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1723.022,"endTime":1727.592,"body":"Who has shown enough care for Exit"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1723.022,"endTime":1727.592,"body":"to kind of get through all of their"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1727.602,"endTime":1733.642,"body":"barriers and who also has shown enough"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1727.602,"endTime":1733.642,"body":"competency to earn Exit's respect."},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":1734.192,"endTime":1738.402,"body":"Have you had a mentorship"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":1734.192,"endTime":1738.402,"body":"relationship that informs"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":1738.462,"endTime":1739.802,"body":"this character choice?"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1740.312,"endTime":1742.262,"body":"That's"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1740.312,"endTime":1742.262,"body":"also a great question."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1742.282,"endTime":1744.712,"body":"I don't think so, really."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1745.052,"endTime":1751.667,"body":"I certainly can't think of any mentors"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1745.052,"endTime":1751.667,"body":"who I've been romantically attracted"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1751.667,"endTime":1753.49,"body":"to, to just get that out of the way."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1753.97,"endTime":1756.107,"body":"It's not like I haven't"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1753.97,"endTime":1756.107,"body":"had mentors in my life."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1756.127,"endTime":1759.357,"body":"I went to college, I can think of"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1756.127,"endTime":1759.357,"body":"a lot of professors that I have"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1759.357,"endTime":1760.537,"body":"very good relationships with."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1760.567,"endTime":1766.667,"body":"My first boss was a really great guy"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1760.567,"endTime":1766.667,"body":"in his 40s who I think maybe kind of"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1766.667,"endTime":1773.207,"body":"felt about me in a similar way to how"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1766.667,"endTime":1773.207,"body":"this, this mentor feels about Exit."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1773.257,"endTime":1775.107,"body":"He worried about me because of my health."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1775.167,"endTime":1781.417,"body":"And he also really saw a lot of raw"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1775.167,"endTime":1781.417,"body":"talent in me and wanted me to be"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1781.417,"endTime":1785.857,"body":"able to grow into that and thrive and"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1781.417,"endTime":1785.857,"body":"do the best and not get trapped in"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1785.857,"endTime":1787.467,"body":"the place he had gotten trapped in."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1787.477,"endTime":1789.057,"body":"He wanted better things for me."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1789.337,"endTime":1796.067,"body":"He worked for a corporate company"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1789.337,"endTime":1796.067,"body":"doing video production and really hated"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1796.077,"endTime":1800.537,"body":"that he had never been able to go out"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1796.077,"endTime":1800.537,"body":"and do the kind of video production"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1800.537,"endTime":1802.007,"body":"that he was actually interested in."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1802.447,"endTime":1806.887,"body":"But he, you know, he cared for his family,"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1802.447,"endTime":1806.887,"body":"and he made, I'm sure, a lot of money."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1807.127,"endTime":1810.617,"body":"And also, he hated basically"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1807.127,"endTime":1810.617,"body":"everything that he made."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1810.917,"endTime":1815.477,"body":"And I wonder if the feelings"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1810.917,"endTime":1815.477,"body":"of that relationship kind of"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1815.477,"endTime":1816.857,"body":"made it into this one also."},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":1817.207,"endTime":1821.307,"body":"I have empathy for his"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":1817.207,"endTime":1821.307,"body":"situation, having a family myself."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1821.437,"endTime":1821.787,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":1821.867,"endTime":1823.197,"body":"That's a hard choice to make."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1823.367,"endTime":1823.617,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":1823.617,"endTime":1826.457,"body":"Between security"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":1823.617,"endTime":1826.457,"body":"and creativity sometimes."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1826.632,"endTime":1827.022,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":1827.042,"endTime":1828.712,"body":"What does Exit look like?"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1828.912,"endTime":1831.142,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1828.912,"endTime":1831.142,"body":"this is a great question."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1831.162,"endTime":1837.502,"body":"Also, because the iconic image of"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1831.162,"endTime":1837.502,"body":"Exit in my head is completely covered."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1838.022,"endTime":1839.672,"body":"They are in a gas mask."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1839.682,"endTime":1844.862,"body":"They are in a full body suit where all"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1839.682,"endTime":1844.862,"body":"the  seams are wrapped up in duct tape."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1844.862,"endTime":1849.397,"body":"You know, they have cargo"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1844.862,"endTime":1849.397,"body":"boots and rubber gloves on, and"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1849.397,"endTime":1851.017,"body":"they're carrying a fishing pole."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1851.197,"endTime":1854.837,"body":"Actually, since I sent in the"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1851.197,"endTime":1854.837,"body":"original form, I found a sketch that"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1854.837,"endTime":1858.197,"body":"I did of Exit at one point that I'll"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1854.837,"endTime":1858.197,"body":"share with you, but they're a mess."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1858.227,"endTime":1860.597,"body":"They're covered in dirt and grime."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1860.597,"endTime":1861.987,"body":"They're wearing this suit all the time."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1862.157,"endTime":1868.267,"body":"When they get home, they take the suit off"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1862.157,"endTime":1868.267,"body":"because it's sweaty in there and maybe not"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1868.337,"endTime":1874.457,"body":"the most fun to sleep in, but they're in"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1868.337,"endTime":1874.457,"body":"that suit, basically all hours of the day."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1874.487,"endTime":1876.167,"body":"It's their one outfit."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1876.187,"endTime":1878.957,"body":"And as much as they would take"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1876.187,"endTime":1878.957,"body":"the gas mask off when they're"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1878.957,"endTime":1880.517,"body":"kind of hanging out at home."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1880.527,"endTime":1885.997,"body":"You know, I wrote all this before COVID,"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1880.527,"endTime":1885.997,"body":"but also there's a lot of vibes of, if"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1885.997,"endTime":1890.642,"body":"I'm out in the world, I'm putting my"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1885.997,"endTime":1890.642,"body":"mask on just because I don't trust the"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1890.642,"endTime":1893.142,"body":"mist, and I don't trust the other people."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1893.232,"endTime":1896.222,"body":"I like the sort of protection,"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1893.232,"endTime":1896.222,"body":"the feeling of protection that"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1896.232,"endTime":1897.612,"body":"having that mask gives me."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1897.652,"endTime":1900.492,"body":"I'm speaking in character as"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1897.652,"endTime":1900.492,"body":"Exit there, less as myself."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1900.562,"endTime":1905.472,"body":"But, with the mask off, I see"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1900.562,"endTime":1905.472,"body":"them as pretty thin, wild hair."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1905.482,"endTime":1907.982,"body":"You know, no one's taking care"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1905.482,"endTime":1907.982,"body":"of them, and they're not really"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1907.982,"endTime":1909.082,"body":"taking care of themselves."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1909.112,"endTime":1915.152,"body":"Probably a good amount of acne, and"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1909.112,"endTime":1915.152,"body":"I think fairly cold and distant eyes."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1915.412,"endTime":1920.212,"body":"To to go back to one of the things on"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1915.412,"endTime":1920.212,"body":"the pick list for the savvy head, I think"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1920.212,"endTime":1925.172,"body":"that they have deep inside of them this"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1920.212,"endTime":1925.172,"body":"want for a connection and want to find"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1925.172,"endTime":1926.402,"body":"a place for themselves in the world."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1926.672,"endTime":1930.362,"body":"But I think they have given up on"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1926.672,"endTime":1930.362,"body":"finding that in anyone else and have"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1930.362,"endTime":1934.162,"body":"very much felt they need to make that"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1930.362,"endTime":1934.162,"body":"for themselves and are only going to be"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1934.162,"endTime":1935.712,"body":"capable of making that for themselves."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1935.977,"endTime":1939.717,"body":"And I think that's really reflected"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1935.977,"endTime":1939.717,"body":"in the way they look at other people"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1939.757,"endTime":1944.437,"body":"and the sort of default resting"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1939.757,"endTime":1944.437,"body":"dismissive face that they have."},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":1944.877,"endTime":1948.797,"body":"Will the mist or being exposed"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":1944.877,"endTime":1948.797,"body":"to it, even with the protection of"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":1948.797,"endTime":1953.307,"body":"a gas mask, do you imagine that that"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":1948.797,"endTime":1953.307,"body":"would have kind of long term effects?"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":1953.307,"endTime":1953.667,"body":"I mean."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1953.947,"endTime":1954.317,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":1954.357,"endTime":1957.647,"body":"Even a mask is not"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":1954.357,"endTime":1957.647,"body":"necessarily completely protective."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1957.887,"endTime":1958.307,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1958.337,"endTime":1961.137,"body":"You know, no matter how good you"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1958.337,"endTime":1961.137,"body":"are, if you do something a thousand"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1961.137,"endTime":1963.887,"body":"times, one of those times you're"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1961.137,"endTime":1963.887,"body":"going to make a mistake, right?"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1964.127,"endTime":1966.587,"body":"I do see that happening."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1966.647,"endTime":1971.577,"body":"I thought a lot about this as we were"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1966.647,"endTime":1971.577,"body":"both playing this original campaign."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1971.857,"endTime":1974.667,"body":"And then as I was conceiving of"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1971.857,"endTime":1974.667,"body":"this character in this world on"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1974.667,"endTime":1976.517,"body":"my own and in this screenplay."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1976.567,"endTime":1980.227,"body":"What does happen to you when"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1976.567,"endTime":1980.227,"body":"you're exposed to the mist?"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1980.447,"endTime":1985.147,"body":"We went through a lot of different ideas"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1980.447,"endTime":1985.147,"body":"about this because I didn't want to get"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1985.167,"endTime":1992.487,"body":"too deep into something that could be"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1985.167,"endTime":1992.487,"body":"ableist or being, you go crazy or your"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1992.517,"endTime":1998.577,"body":"brain starts to melt out your ears or you"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1992.517,"endTime":1998.577,"body":"become an invalid or anything else that"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":1998.577,"endTime":2001.427,"body":"would just be really uncomfortable to me."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2001.657,"endTime":2003.887,"body":"I wanted it to be something specific."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2004.272,"endTime":2007.692,"body":"And something that"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2004.272,"endTime":2007.692,"body":"would not end your life."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2007.772,"endTime":2009.772,"body":"A big exposure, maybe"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2007.772,"endTime":2009.772,"body":"it would end your life."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2009.772,"endTime":2015.162,"body":"But the sort of mild or brief exposures"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2009.772,"endTime":2015.162,"body":"that these scavengers were likely"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2015.182,"endTime":2019.822,"body":"to have could be career ending,"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2015.182,"endTime":2019.822,"body":"but that that wouldn't be fair."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2020.002,"endTime":2020.802,"body":"You know what I mean?"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2021.112,"endTime":2027.132,"body":"I feel that's how I feel about disability"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2021.112,"endTime":2027.132,"body":"a lot is the ways in which it holds"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2027.132,"endTime":2029.792,"body":"you back are totally surmountable."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2029.792,"endTime":2034.432,"body":"Society doesn't necessarily"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2029.792,"endTime":2034.432,"body":"agree, and that's a problem with"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2034.432,"endTime":2036.242,"body":"society, not a problem with you."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2036.272,"endTime":2040.392,"body":"So the thing I ended up"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2036.272,"endTime":2040.392,"body":"settling on was memory issues."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2040.707,"endTime":2046.557,"body":"And frailness,  muscle pains and aches"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2040.707,"endTime":2046.557,"body":"that made physical exertion difficult."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2046.637,"endTime":2050.747,"body":"As the sort of first symptoms of what"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2046.637,"endTime":2050.747,"body":"the mist would do to you, and that the"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2050.757,"endTime":2053.947,"body":"scavengers who were going out and doing"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2050.757,"endTime":2053.947,"body":"this for a long period of time, they"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2053.967,"endTime":2058.692,"body":"knew, and other people around them would"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2053.967,"endTime":2058.692,"body":"carefully watch, for these symptoms."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2058.872,"endTime":2061.752,"body":"And some of them would just go until"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2058.872,"endTime":2061.752,"body":"they burned out or had some sort"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2061.752,"endTime":2064.802,"body":"of horrible accident and would just"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2061.752,"endTime":2064.802,"body":"keep going and keep going to sort of"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2064.802,"endTime":2066.592,"body":"devote themselves to the community."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2066.842,"endTime":2070.392,"body":"And some, when those first symptoms"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2066.842,"endTime":2070.392,"body":"of a little bit more forgetfulness"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2071.032,"endTime":2072.892,"body":"would come in, would retire."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2073.232,"endTime":2078.032,"body":"And that the decision on when"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2073.232,"endTime":2078.032,"body":"to do so was very much up to the"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2078.032,"endTime":2079.902,"body":"individual, but a hard one to make."},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":2080.642,"endTime":2083.992,"body":"Playing a role playing game, a lot"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":2080.642,"endTime":2083.992,"body":"of times you discover your character's"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":2084.022,"endTime":2088.552,"body":"backstory or you build things about"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":2084.022,"endTime":2088.552,"body":"your character's backstory and that"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":2088.552,"endTime":2092.862,"body":"prior relationships that they might"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":2088.552,"endTime":2092.862,"body":"have had with each other through play."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2093.062,"endTime":2093.222,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":2093.222,"endTime":2097.532,"body":"And so role playing memory loss"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":2093.222,"endTime":2097.532,"body":"could be difficult because how do you"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":2097.562,"endTime":2103.952,"body":"portray that when the other people don't"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":2097.562,"endTime":2103.952,"body":"know that these things are memories?"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2103.992,"endTime":2104.51,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2104.692,"endTime":2110.432,"body":"I mean, I'm thinking now of an episode"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2104.692,"endTime":2110.432,"body":"I did of my show with Jason Morningstar"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2110.442,"endTime":2118.372,"body":"about this concept of transparency,"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2110.442,"endTime":2118.372,"body":"which is the level of how much knowledge"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2118.512,"endTime":2121.672,"body":"goes between player and character."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2121.702,"endTime":2127.557,"body":"In a high transparency game, you"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2121.702,"endTime":2127.557,"body":"as players have essentially all"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2127.567,"endTime":2131.027,"body":"the information that is going on,"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2127.567,"endTime":2131.027,"body":"even if your characters don't."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2131.367,"endTime":2134.737,"body":"And in a low transparency"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2131.367,"endTime":2134.737,"body":"game, you might be keeping big"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2134.737,"endTime":2136.107,"body":"secrets from each other, right?"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2136.137,"endTime":2143.017,"body":"And I agree with Jason in that"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2136.137,"endTime":2143.017,"body":"episode that I think more transparency"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2143.037,"endTime":2147.227,"body":"typically leads to better games,"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2143.037,"endTime":2147.227,"body":"that the more information that we can"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2147.227,"endTime":2151.827,"body":"have as players, the more we can help"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2147.227,"endTime":2151.827,"body":"each lean into the most interesting"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2151.827,"endTime":2153.207,"body":"parts of our characters stories."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2153.582,"endTime":2157.612,"body":"And so, to me, you are absolutely right"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2153.582,"endTime":2157.612,"body":"that there's an interesting challenge"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2157.612,"endTime":2164.382,"body":"here in, coming in and, as players,"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2157.612,"endTime":2164.382,"body":"not knowing what memories aren't there."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2164.402,"endTime":2168.862,"body":"But I think, as players, we also have"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2164.402,"endTime":2168.862,"body":"the ability to say, what if this is"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2168.862,"endTime":2172.102,"body":"a thing that happened, and I don't,"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2168.862,"endTime":2172.102,"body":"and my character doesn't remember it?"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2172.412,"endTime":2173.357,"body":"Exit has forgotten."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2173.727,"endTime":2175.217,"body":"We can always do that."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2175.287,"endTime":2179.557,"body":"And I think that that is a really fun"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2175.287,"endTime":2179.557,"body":"thing to be able to do to bring in kind"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2179.557,"endTime":2185.637,"body":"of dramatic irony, to always be able to"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2179.557,"endTime":2185.637,"body":"keep that conversation open about the"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2185.637,"endTime":2187.937,"body":"exact thing that you were bringing up."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2187.937,"endTime":2189.417,"body":"What do we remember?"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2189.417,"endTime":2190.497,"body":"What don't we remember?"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2190.497,"endTime":2191.497,"body":"What did happen?"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2191.497,"endTime":2192.437,"body":"What do we think happened?"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2192.777,"endTime":2199.097,"body":"Keeping that line open on the player"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2192.777,"endTime":2199.097,"body":"level is just gonna be fun, I think?"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2199.137,"endTime":2202.607,"body":"Even if on a character level,"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2199.137,"endTime":2202.607,"body":"things are more confusing."},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":2202.927,"endTime":2203.807,"body":"Yeah, I can see that."},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":2203.817,"endTime":2204.667,"body":"That makes sense."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2205.117,"endTime":2208.197,"body":"I did have one other"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2205.117,"endTime":2208.197,"body":"thing that has happened with this"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2208.197,"endTime":2210.047,"body":"character since I filled out the form."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2210.087,"endTime":2214.057,"body":"I did actually get to play as"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2210.087,"endTime":2214.057,"body":"Exit in a game, eventually."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2214.427,"endTime":2219.927,"body":"I got to play this solo game,"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2214.427,"endTime":2219.927,"body":"VOID 1680 AM, which came out"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2219.927,"endTime":2221.797,"body":"this year and which I adore."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2221.797,"endTime":2227.487,"body":"This is a solo game in which you"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2221.797,"endTime":2227.487,"body":"are a AM radio DJ in real life or"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2227.507,"endTime":2229.657,"body":"in some sort of fantastical world."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2229.737,"endTime":2234.397,"body":"You get to make it up and in the course"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2229.737,"endTime":2234.397,"body":"of play you do a nightly radio broadcast."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2234.397,"endTime":2239.137,"body":"You put together a playlist and you"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2234.397,"endTime":2239.137,"body":"take callers and you sort of journal"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2239.147,"endTime":2243.017,"body":"or imagine for yourself what your"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2239.147,"endTime":2243.017,"body":"interactions with the callers are"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2243.017,"endTime":2248.517,"body":"."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2243.017,"endTime":2248.517,"body":"And then you record yourself in character"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2248.527,"endTime":2250.647,"body":"breaks between different sets of music."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2250.677,"endTime":2257.727,"body":"And it's a really lovely kind of lonely"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2250.677,"endTime":2257.727,"body":"fun experience that really evokes the"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2257.727,"endTime":2260.247,"body":"feeling of being a late night radio DJ."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2260.247,"endTime":2266.317,"body":"I was one in college and had a blast doing"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2260.247,"endTime":2266.317,"body":"it, but there's this intense melancholy,"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2266.357,"endTime":2271.917,"body":"I think, to the act of being a radio"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2266.357,"endTime":2271.917,"body":"DJ with an unknown number of listeners."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2272.317,"endTime":2276.317,"body":"And when I sat down to play this"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2272.317,"endTime":2276.317,"body":"game, I was , Oh, I want to be Exit."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2276.367,"endTime":2277.507,"body":"Let's do this as Exit."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2277.547,"endTime":2282.007,"body":"I took the character and I changed"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2277.547,"endTime":2282.007,"body":"them to be a sort of support person"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2282.037,"endTime":2285.757,"body":"for a bunch of scavengers who"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2282.037,"endTime":2285.757,"body":"would be out there on the ground."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2285.907,"endTime":2288.077,"body":"Someone who would stay back home."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2288.437,"endTime":2295.167,"body":"And play music for those people and via"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2288.437,"endTime":2295.167,"body":"the music and their broadcast, keep them"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2295.187,"endTime":2300.137,"body":"up to date on how long they had been"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2295.187,"endTime":2300.137,"body":"down there because you don't want to"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2300.137,"endTime":2305.997,"body":"spend too much time down there and also"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2300.137,"endTime":2305.997,"body":"to provide them with  a comforting voice"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2306.067,"endTime":2309.257,"body":"from home to a connection back to home."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2309.592,"endTime":2315.032,"body":"And a place within the community for"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2309.592,"endTime":2315.032,"body":"other people to listen in and sort"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2315.032,"endTime":2320.692,"body":"of, by listening, express a connection"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2315.032,"endTime":2320.692,"body":"to and support for everyone who's"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2320.692,"endTime":2322.832,"body":"risking their lives down scavenging."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2322.872,"endTime":2326.312,"body":"And that really changed the nature"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2322.872,"endTime":2326.312,"body":"of the community and the world that I"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2326.312,"endTime":2330.222,"body":"had set up for Exit, and it certainly"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2326.312,"endTime":2330.222,"body":"really changed who Exit is as a person."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2330.222,"endTime":2333.152,"body":"It would bring them back into"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2330.222,"endTime":2333.152,"body":"the world, the community."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2333.512,"endTime":2335.792,"body":"But I also really loved the result."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2335.832,"endTime":2340.942,"body":"There was something so kind about it"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2335.832,"endTime":2340.942,"body":"that was nice to play around with,"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2341.002,"endTime":2345.672,"body":"and a nice, maybe 12 skyscrapers down,"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2341.002,"endTime":2345.672,"body":"there's a different skyscraper that"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2345.682,"endTime":2347.572,"body":"is functioning in this way, you know?"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2347.602,"endTime":2349.772,"body":"It was a very fun game to play by myself."},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":2350.472,"endTime":2351.102,"body":"Interesting."},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":2351.612,"endTime":2355.202,"body":"Do you, in the course of playing"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":2351.612,"endTime":2355.202,"body":"this game, actually record the"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":2355.202,"endTime":2357.242,"body":"radio show, or are you writing it?"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2357.687,"endTime":2361.917,"body":"I played as"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2357.687,"endTime":2361.917,"body":"Exit by actually recording it."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2362.257,"endTime":2364.467,"body":"That is what the game"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2362.257,"endTime":2364.467,"body":"intends for you to do, too."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2364.497,"endTime":2366.137,"body":"That's what it says to do in its rules."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2366.197,"endTime":2372.127,"body":"I felt so on the spot that I felt"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2366.197,"endTime":2372.127,"body":"I did a bad job, I let myself down."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2372.537,"endTime":2375.977,"body":"And so I ended up playing it again with"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2372.537,"endTime":2375.977,"body":"a different premise, actually based on"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2375.977,"endTime":2377.617,"body":"a different screenplay that I'd written."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2377.667,"endTime":2378.057,"body":"Whatever."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2378.407,"endTime":2379.117,"body":"That's another story."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2379.137,"endTime":2385.037,"body":"And that time I wrote down what all my"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2379.137,"endTime":2385.037,"body":"DJ breaks would be,  what my character"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2385.057,"endTime":2388.852,"body":"would be saying into the microphone"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2385.057,"endTime":2388.852,"body":"instead of recording myself, but then"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2388.902,"endTime":2393.792,"body":"I did go back and record them and put"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2388.902,"endTime":2393.792,"body":"it all together as a broadcast because"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2394.147,"endTime":2400.177,"body":"The author of this game, Ken Lowery,"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2394.147,"endTime":2400.177,"body":"has a weekly stream where if you send"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2400.177,"endTime":2406.457,"body":"him your broadcast of the game, he will"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2400.177,"endTime":2406.457,"body":"play it on his actual AM radio station"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2406.747,"endTime":2408.537,"body":"and broadcast it live on YouTube."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2408.917,"endTime":2412.007,"body":"So I ended up doing that with my"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2408.917,"endTime":2412.007,"body":"second playthrough of this game, and"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2412.017,"endTime":2415.347,"body":"he's got this great little community"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2412.017,"endTime":2415.347,"body":"going of people who just listen to"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2415.367,"endTime":2419.207,"body":"these playlists and weird little"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2415.367,"endTime":2419.207,"body":"fiction along with them every week."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2419.512,"endTime":2422.892,"body":"It is a really fun, lovely place to be."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2423.202,"endTime":2425.372,"body":"And I felt bad."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2425.412,"endTime":2430.262,"body":"I did not feel  my play through"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2425.412,"endTime":2430.262,"body":"as Exit lived up to the standards"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2430.262,"endTime":2434.752,"body":"that I wanted to broadcast even"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2430.262,"endTime":2434.752,"body":"to only 10 people live on YouTube."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2434.772,"endTime":2438.827,"body":"But it is, it is a real fun thing"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2434.772,"endTime":2438.827,"body":"that Ken has put together in a"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2438.827,"endTime":2440.122,"body":"community that I've come to love."},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":2440.747,"endTime":2443.017,"body":"That is really beautiful to me."},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":2443.287,"endTime":2447.647,"body":"A way to take a solo game and"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":2443.287,"endTime":2447.647,"body":"add a collective element to it."},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":2447.647,"endTime":2448.777,"body":"It's really interesting."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2448.977,"endTime":2449.357,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2449.397,"endTime":2454.027,"body":"I mean, that's the thing about solo"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2449.397,"endTime":2454.027,"body":"games is on the one hand, I think that"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2454.057,"endTime":2461.237,"body":"they are so much a different medium"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2454.057,"endTime":2461.237,"body":"from other RPGs because I think at"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2461.237,"endTime":2465.977,"body":"their best the purpose of a solo game"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2461.237,"endTime":2465.977,"body":"is not to collaboratively tell a story."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2466.187,"endTime":2467.507,"body":"It is self reflection."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2467.537,"endTime":2474.277,"body":"It is learning about yourself through"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2467.537,"endTime":2474.277,"body":"journaling or It is experiencing someone"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2474.287,"endTime":2477.417,"body":"else's pretty scripted out story."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2477.417,"endTime":2480.887,"body":"It's almost a choose your own"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2477.417,"endTime":2480.887,"body":"adventure novel, right, where,"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2481.237,"endTime":2487.177,"body":"yeah, I might be adding details to"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2481.237,"endTime":2487.177,"body":"this story, but fundamentally I'm"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2487.177,"endTime":2489.717,"body":"just experiencing an author's work."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2490.377,"endTime":2496.197,"body":"But I think we often play solo games when"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2490.377,"endTime":2496.197,"body":"we wish we were playing them with other"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2496.207,"endTime":2500.197,"body":"people, when we wish we were playing"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2496.207,"endTime":2500.197,"body":"more collaborative multiplayer RPGs."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2500.557,"endTime":2508.237,"body":"And that dissonance between why me and"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2500.557,"endTime":2508.237,"body":"many of my friends seek out solo games to"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2508.277,"endTime":2512.127,"body":"get the multiplayer experience but alone,"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2508.277,"endTime":2512.127,"body":"and what I think the medium is actually"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2512.127,"endTime":2518.347,"body":"good at, doing a novel thing and self"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2512.127,"endTime":2518.347,"body":"reflection, is tough to bridge at times."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2518.647,"endTime":2525.967,"body":"And VOID 1680am does such a good"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2518.647,"endTime":2525.967,"body":"job of that by having this community"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2525.967,"endTime":2528.657,"body":"out there, but also by being about."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2528.992,"endTime":2533.282,"body":"an experience that is so inherently self"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2528.992,"endTime":2533.282,"body":"reflective and so much about loneliness."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2533.352,"endTime":2538.072,"body":"I really think it is special"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2533.352,"endTime":2538.072,"body":"in that way for a solo game."},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":2538.802,"endTime":2542.262,"body":"So you mentioned that playing"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":2538.802,"endTime":2542.262,"body":"solo games often is about self"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":2542.262,"endTime":2547.132,"body":"reflection, but I know that a lot of"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":2542.262,"endTime":2547.132,"body":"people when playing collaborative games"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":2547.222,"endTime":2550.152,"body":"also find that a way to self reflect."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2550.862,"endTime":2551.562,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2551.777,"endTime":2552.547,"body":"Absolutely."},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":2552.577,"endTime":2556.017,"body":"I know that for a lot of people,"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":2552.577,"endTime":2556.017,"body":"this is  a completely subconscious"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":2556.027,"endTime":2558.197,"body":"thing, but is that the case for you?"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2558.267,"endTime":2558.947,"body":"Oh, yeah."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2558.957,"endTime":2561.387,"body":"I mean, you heard me doing"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2558.957,"endTime":2561.387,"body":"it earlier in this episode."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2562.687,"endTime":2563.817,"body":"Yes, absolutely."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2564.087,"endTime":2570.387,"body":"My friend, Ash Kreider, who I mentioned"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2564.087,"endTime":2570.387,"body":"earlier, often says to me, yes, everyone"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2570.387,"endTime":2574.317,"body":"is playing themselves all the time,"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2570.387,"endTime":2574.317,"body":"regardless of what they tell you."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2574.717,"endTime":2578.037,"body":"And I think that's 85 percent true."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2578.147,"endTime":2583.007,"body":"I do think that most people"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2578.147,"endTime":2583.007,"body":"are deriving enjoyment in this"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2583.007,"endTime":2586.147,"body":"hobby from trying on a persona."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2586.487,"endTime":2591.767,"body":"And I think mostly we are trying"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2586.487,"endTime":2591.767,"body":"on personas that we find compelling"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2591.847,"endTime":2595.757,"body":"in a way, enthralling, intriguing,"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2591.847,"endTime":2595.757,"body":"something that we would  to seek out"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2595.777,"endTime":2597.467,"body":"and play around with a little bit."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2597.627,"endTime":2602.482,"body":"Maybe even, you know, outside of"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2597.627,"endTime":2602.482,"body":"RPGs in the rest of our lives."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2602.552,"endTime":2605.982,"body":"I know I have made a lot of characters."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2606.012,"endTime":2611.252,"body":"I've been called out by many friends for"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2606.012,"endTime":2611.252,"body":"playing almost exclusively characters"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2611.252,"endTime":2613.052,"body":"who are extremely emotionally repressed."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2613.272,"endTime":2618.342,"body":"And I will leave it to listeners to maybe"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2613.272,"endTime":2618.342,"body":"think about why that is given what else"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2618.342,"endTime":2619.522,"body":"I have talked about in this episode."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2619.532,"endTime":2620.462,"body":"But yeah."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2620.852,"endTime":2626.832,"body":"Absolutely everyone's out there using"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2620.852,"endTime":2626.832,"body":"RPGs as a way of self reflection."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2626.842,"endTime":2628.012,"body":"That's not the only thing they're doing."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2628.012,"endTime":2631.022,"body":"It's usually not the most"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2628.012,"endTime":2631.022,"body":"intentional thing that they're doing."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2631.242,"endTime":2633.982,"body":"And some people, I think, aren't"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2631.242,"endTime":2633.982,"body":"doing it at all, some people really"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2633.992,"endTime":2637.922,"body":"are just showing up to hang out"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2633.992,"endTime":2637.922,"body":"and meme around with their friends."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2637.992,"endTime":2642.122,"body":"And some people really just want to"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2637.992,"endTime":2642.122,"body":"play a board game and fight goblins or"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2642.452,"endTime":2644.252,"body":"loot around in a dungeon or whatever."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2644.362,"endTime":2647.552,"body":"But I think it leaks through"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2644.362,"endTime":2647.552,"body":"for a lot of people, even in"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2647.582,"endTime":2649.182,"body":"those kinds of play experiences."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2649.332,"endTime":2652.642,"body":"And I think there are absolutely people"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2649.332,"endTime":2652.642,"body":"out there being really intentional"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2652.702,"endTime":2655.762,"body":"about the kinds of characters they're"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2652.702,"endTime":2655.762,"body":"interested in putting on for a while."},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":2656.307,"endTime":2658.427,"body":"When you find that you're"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":2656.307,"endTime":2658.427,"body":"doing it, is it something that you"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":2658.427,"endTime":2662.897,"body":"personally recognize or is it always"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":2658.427,"endTime":2662.897,"body":"other people recognizing it for you?"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2662.947,"endTime":2665.287,"body":"No, I know that"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2662.947,"endTime":2665.287,"body":"I'm doing it a lot of the time."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2665.297,"endTime":2668.237,"body":"I think it is helpful for"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2665.297,"endTime":2668.237,"body":"other people to point it out."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2668.537,"endTime":2671.937,"body":"Sometimes it's, yeah, I'm probably"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2668.537,"endTime":2671.937,"body":"doing this thing, but, whatever, I'm"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2671.937,"endTime":2672.917,"body":"not going to pay attention to it."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2672.937,"endTime":2674.447,"body":"And then someone will be like, damn."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2674.677,"endTime":2679.537,"body":"And you'll be like, Ooh, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2674.677,"endTime":2679.537,"body":"yeah, I see what's going on there."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2679.577,"endTime":2682.477,"body":"But I think in general, it's both."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2682.667,"endTime":2686.937,"body":"It's yeah, I'm trying some stuff on,"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2682.667,"endTime":2686.937,"body":"but I'm also finding stuff that I don't"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2686.967,"endTime":2690.642,"body":"know that I'm finding and when other"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2686.967,"endTime":2690.642,"body":"people call it out, that's illuminating."},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":2691.707,"endTime":2693.067,"body":"Oh yeah, that's a good word for it."},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":2693.607,"endTime":2697.067,"body":"Does Exit have any particular quirks?"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2697.627,"endTime":2701.127,"body":"I think the collection"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2697.627,"endTime":2701.127,"body":"of traffic cones is the big quirk."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2701.757,"endTime":2705.557,"body":"That was a detail that was in my"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2701.757,"endTime":2705.557,"body":"screenplay for a long time until several"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2705.557,"endTime":2708.187,"body":"friends were like, this doesn't make"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2705.557,"endTime":2708.187,"body":"any sense and you have to take it out."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2708.447,"endTime":2712.537,"body":"And I was like, no, I want Exit's weird"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2708.447,"endTime":2712.537,"body":"little collection of traffic cones."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2712.707,"endTime":2716.267,"body":"That's something that I ripped off"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2712.707,"endTime":2716.267,"body":"completely from my friend Sophie, who"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2716.287,"endTime":2718.077,"body":"created the original Trout character."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2718.317,"endTime":2722.417,"body":"This collection of traffic cones was"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2718.317,"endTime":2722.417,"body":"just such a weird little detail that"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2722.417,"endTime":2728.637,"body":"could only exist for Trout or for my take"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2722.417,"endTime":2728.637,"body":"on the character who lived down there."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2728.997,"endTime":2731.047,"body":"And I just think it's so fun."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2731.097,"endTime":2732.527,"body":"I think it's so fun."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2732.717,"endTime":2737.657,"body":"Just imagine a whole office"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2732.717,"endTime":2737.657,"body":"just filled with some weirdo's"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2737.837,"endTime":2739.387,"body":"collection of traffic cones."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2739.617,"endTime":2741.327,"body":"What does that say about them?"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2741.797,"endTime":2743.397,"body":"They're not quite right."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2743.427,"endTime":2747.057,"body":"They're going out of their"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2743.427,"endTime":2747.057,"body":"way in this dangerous world to"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2747.057,"endTime":2750.557,"body":"create this strange art piece."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2750.937,"endTime":2755.437,"body":"And it's a magic, it's this"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2750.937,"endTime":2755.437,"body":"fascination with this world that"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2755.437,"endTime":2759.357,"body":"doesn't exist anymore, or maybe just"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2755.437,"endTime":2759.357,"body":"with  bright colors or something."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2759.397,"endTime":2768.717,"body":"It's opaque in what it means for Exit, and"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2759.397,"endTime":2768.717,"body":"is just an indicator of how odd they are."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2769.027,"endTime":2770.907,"body":"And I love that combination about it."},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":2771.467,"endTime":2777.527,"body":"Do you understand, or does Exit"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":2771.467,"endTime":2777.527,"body":"themselves understand the importance?"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":2777.527,"endTime":2779.587,"body":", why do they collect these cones?"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2780.157,"endTime":2785.207,"body":"I think they probably"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2780.157,"endTime":2785.207,"body":"do, but I never landed on what it was."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2785.487,"endTime":2789.507,"body":"I ended up actually, indeed, taking it out"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2785.487,"endTime":2789.507,"body":"of the script and stopped thinking about"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2789.507,"endTime":2794.867,"body":"it precisely because I didn't want to"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2789.507,"endTime":2794.867,"body":"have to answer that question definitively."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2795.262,"endTime":2798.702,"body":"And I thought, that's the kind of thing"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2795.262,"endTime":2798.702,"body":"where, I don't know that you do have"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2798.702,"endTime":2803.062,"body":"to answer that question definitively if"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2798.702,"endTime":2803.062,"body":"the character is on the fringes of your"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2803.062,"endTime":2807.592,"body":"story, but if they're your protagonist,"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2803.062,"endTime":2807.592,"body":"you should know what's going on there."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2807.622,"endTime":2809.612,"body":"I liked it being unclear."},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":2809.902,"endTime":2810.342,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":2811.042,"endTime":2813.102,"body":"What does their home look like?"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":2813.102,"endTime":2816.872,"body":"You mentioned that having a big"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":2813.102,"endTime":2816.872,"body":"collection of traffic cones, having"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":2817.102,"endTime":2821.132,"body":"an office full of traffic cones,"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":2817.102,"endTime":2821.132,"body":"that would take up a lot of space."},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":2821.132,"endTime":2823.632,"body":"I imagine it takes up a lot"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":2821.132,"endTime":2823.632,"body":"of space in the shopping cart."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2823.672,"endTime":2824.147,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":2824.212,"endTime":2829.462,"body":"Maybe even giving up other forms of"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":2824.212,"endTime":2829.462,"body":"salvage in order to collect the traffic"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":2829.472,"endTime":2831.482,"body":"cones, which I find really interesting."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2831.617,"endTime":2832.127,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2832.177,"endTime":2834.987,"body":"I think they would usually bring"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2832.177,"endTime":2834.987,"body":"back one at a time and wear them"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2834.987,"endTime":2838.277,"body":"as a hat, and so it wouldn't take"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2834.987,"endTime":2838.277,"body":"up  a lot of space in the cart."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2838.307,"endTime":2842.457,"body":"You know, a traffic cone fits on"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2838.307,"endTime":2842.457,"body":"top of a pile of junk pretty well."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2842.457,"endTime":2846.267,"body":"If there's a pole sticking out of"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2842.457,"endTime":2846.267,"body":"your shopping cart, you can just slam"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2846.267,"endTime":2847.757,"body":"a traffic cone on top of it, right?"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2847.777,"endTime":2854.107,"body":"But I, I think if I'm recalling right,"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2847.777,"endTime":2854.107,"body":"their living space,  most people were"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2854.107,"endTime":2857.307,"body":"kind of crammed into this skyscraper"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2854.107,"endTime":2857.307,"body":"because, you know, there's just kind"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2857.307,"endTime":2858.697,"body":"of limited real estate at large."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2858.927,"endTime":2864.977,"body":"But because Exit was willing to live down"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2858.927,"endTime":2864.977,"body":"far enough, there was a lot more room."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2864.987,"endTime":2866.717,"body":"They had  an entire floor to themselves."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2866.827,"endTime":2873.137,"body":"And I believe I conceived of this"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2866.827,"endTime":2873.137,"body":"skyscraper as almost a Judge Dredd"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2873.147,"endTime":2878.247,"body":"style  mega scraper that was  super"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2873.147,"endTime":2878.247,"body":"tall and  everyone  lived in it,"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2878.297,"endTime":2881.107,"body":"had everything that you would need"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2878.297,"endTime":2881.107,"body":"in life, you'd never need to leave."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2881.457,"endTime":2885.297,"body":"And I grew up near the Mall"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2881.457,"endTime":2885.297,"body":"of America, the mega mall."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2885.467,"endTime":2888.907,"body":"And I remember always going there and"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2885.467,"endTime":2888.907,"body":"just being, wow, they've really set"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2888.907,"endTime":2893.597,"body":"this place up specifically to trap"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2888.907,"endTime":2893.597,"body":"you here, you know, to make it a place"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2893.837,"endTime":2896.197,"body":"that you would never need to leave."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2896.287,"endTime":2900.797,"body":"I'd had this vision for a lot"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2896.287,"endTime":2900.797,"body":"longer than this of a Walmart"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2901.047,"endTime":2902.827,"body":"that just has apartments in it."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2902.827,"endTime":2905.107,"body":"And is that in our collective future?"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2905.817,"endTime":2910.787,"body":"And so that kind of meant that anything"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2905.817,"endTime":2910.787,"body":"could exist in this skyscraper."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2911.017,"endTime":2914.167,"body":"And so I believe they were"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2911.017,"endTime":2914.167,"body":"living in an abandoned arcade."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2914.462,"endTime":2918.612,"body":"That there wasn't really a power"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2914.462,"endTime":2918.612,"body":"anymore, but there were still all"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2918.622,"endTime":2923.122,"body":"the old arcade machines laying"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2918.622,"endTime":2923.122,"body":"around with all the brightly"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2923.122,"endTime":2925.032,"body":"colored cool advertisements on top."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2925.092,"endTime":2928.632,"body":"Yeah, it's one fairly large"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2925.092,"endTime":2928.632,"body":"arcade essentially in a big"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2928.642,"endTime":2930.937,"body":"mall that no one was in."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2930.957,"endTime":2934.687,"body":"It would be like the last of us the"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2930.957,"endTime":2934.687,"body":"episode of that TV show from this past"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2934.687,"endTime":2938.947,"body":"year where they're going around this"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2934.687,"endTime":2938.947,"body":"mall at night after a zombie apocalypse"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2939.137,"endTime":2941.607,"body":"those vibes were in a big arcade."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2941.707,"endTime":2943.307,"body":"None of the machines work anymore."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2943.387,"endTime":2944.767,"body":"They all look really cool."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2945.077,"endTime":2948.467,"body":"And all of them are covered with traffic"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2945.077,"endTime":2948.467,"body":"cones and the floor is covered with"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2948.467,"endTime":2952.897,"body":"traffic cones and I got a little bed"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2948.467,"endTime":2952.897,"body":"in the back and a personal sized solar"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2952.897,"endTime":2957.467,"body":"panel sticking out the window doing its"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2952.897,"endTime":2957.467,"body":"friggin best to collect what sunlight"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2957.467,"endTime":2963.687,"body":"can make it down here to a fairly cloudy"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2957.467,"endTime":2963.687,"body":"existence and, you know, snuggle up, put"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2963.687,"endTime":2968.687,"body":"on the radio, recharge it overnight and"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2963.687,"endTime":2968.687,"body":"then get up and catch a rat for breakfast."},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":2970.147,"endTime":2974.967,"body":"It's funny how malls come up"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":2970.147,"endTime":2974.967,"body":"often in post apocalyptic stories."},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":2975.027,"endTime":2978.797,"body":"I was thinking of, oh gosh, is it Dawn"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":2975.027,"endTime":2978.797,"body":"of the Dead where they're in the mall?"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2978.837,"endTime":2980.707,"body":"You know, I've never"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2978.837,"endTime":2980.707,"body":"seen any of those movies, but I"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":2980.717,"endTime":2982.237,"body":"believe it is Dawn of the Dead."},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":2982.437,"endTime":2983.977,"body":"Yeah, I think it's Dawn of the Dead."},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":2984.007,"endTime":2986.857,"body":"Well, you should check them"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":2984.007,"endTime":2986.857,"body":"out if you like zombies because"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":2986.887,"endTime":2988.247,"body":"obviously they're the original."},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":2988.357,"endTime":2992.327,"body":"But yeah, really fun because yeah,"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":2988.357,"endTime":2992.327,"body":"a mall is designed to trap you."},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":2992.327,"endTime":2996.167,"body":"It has kind of some high security"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":2992.327,"endTime":2996.167,"body":"features because there's not a lot of"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":2996.237,"endTime":3001.357,"body":"entrances and exits and yet has all these"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":2996.237,"endTime":3001.357,"body":"divisions within the space that all have"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":3001.357,"endTime":3005.517,"body":"their own kind of character, which I"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":3001.357,"endTime":3005.517,"body":"think is a really fun idea because where"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":3005.517,"endTime":3010.617,"body":"you choose to kind of settle down, it"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":3005.517,"endTime":3010.617,"body":"says something about your character."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3010.887,"endTime":3011.277,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3011.317,"endTime":3014.907,"body":"I think malls are also so common in"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3011.317,"endTime":3014.907,"body":"post apocalyptic settings because"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3014.957,"endTime":3020.637,"body":"an empty, decaying mall is such a"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3014.957,"endTime":3020.637,"body":"good symbol of the post apocalypse."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3020.637,"endTime":3021.217,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3021.217,"endTime":3022.967,"body":"All our modern decadence."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3023.257,"endTime":3024.067,"body":"But for what?"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3024.687,"endTime":3029.657,"body":"Oh, nature reclaims it, we will be"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3024.687,"endTime":3029.657,"body":"nothing in the grand scheme of things."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3029.727,"endTime":3033.857,"body":"I think that that is a really"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3029.727,"endTime":3033.857,"body":"powerful idea in those stories."},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":3033.907,"endTime":3035.017,"body":"Yeah, definitely."},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":3035.347,"endTime":3042.367,"body":"Does Exit have any personal ethical"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":3035.347,"endTime":3042.367,"body":"or moral code, a vow, a motto?"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3042.617,"endTime":3044.137,"body":"Not particularly."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3044.297,"endTime":3047.237,"body":"I think that they're a little"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3044.297,"endTime":3047.237,"body":"bit out for themselves."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3047.612,"endTime":3052.242,"body":"They don't want to hurt anyone else, but,"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3047.612,"endTime":3052.242,"body":"you know, they're willing to fight back."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3052.312,"endTime":3054.602,"body":"So I don't think, pacifism"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3052.312,"endTime":3054.602,"body":"is the right thing either."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3054.972,"endTime":3060.052,"body":"The scavengers that they are distinctly"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3054.972,"endTime":3060.052,"body":"not a part of had a very distinct"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3060.292,"endTime":3063.562,"body":"slogan, which was, we all pull together."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3063.862,"endTime":3065.032,"body":"We're all in this together."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3065.252,"endTime":3068.622,"body":"It was literal, too, because they had"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3065.252,"endTime":3068.622,"body":"to operate the elevators with ropes."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3069.732,"endTime":3074.562,"body":"That was a slogan that Exit was very much"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3069.732,"endTime":3074.562,"body":"pushing back against, and they didn't have"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3074.562,"endTime":3081.382,"body":"an explicit motto in opposition, but they"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3074.562,"endTime":3081.382,"body":"also distinctly were not pulling together."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3081.472,"endTime":3085.402,"body":"That they thought their own life was"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3081.472,"endTime":3085.402,"body":"more important than other people, or"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3085.402,"endTime":3090.452,"body":"at the very least, that the direction"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3085.402,"endTime":3090.452,"body":"all the scavengers were pulling in was"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3090.502,"endTime":3093.362,"body":"harmful for Exit, and so they rejected it."},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":3094.022,"endTime":3095.212,"body":"Why was it harmful?"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3095.602,"endTime":3100.162,"body":"I think that it was"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3095.602,"endTime":3100.162,"body":"a means of creating conformity."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3100.477,"endTime":3106.037,"body":"And conformity for that group meant"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3100.477,"endTime":3106.037,"body":"safety, and Exit wanted safety."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3106.087,"endTime":3110.417,"body":"And the kind of conformity, I mean"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3106.087,"endTime":3110.417,"body":"this was not a group that was racist"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3110.417,"endTime":3116.587,"body":"or sexist or homophobic or anything"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3110.417,"endTime":3116.587,"body":"that, but I think conformity is still"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3116.597,"endTime":3118.897,"body":"something that not everyone wants."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3119.067,"endTime":3124.017,"body":"Some people, especially teenagers,"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3119.067,"endTime":3124.017,"body":"kind of want to just push back, kind"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3124.017,"endTime":3128.717,"body":"of want to blaze their own path, don't"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3124.017,"endTime":3128.717,"body":"want anyone telling them what to do."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3129.077,"endTime":3135.507,"body":"And that having to conform is painful"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3129.077,"endTime":3135.507,"body":"in some ways, kind of regardless"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3135.507,"endTime":3136.697,"body":"of what you are conforming to."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3136.727,"endTime":3140.847,"body":"And that is what I feel Exit was pushing"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3136.727,"endTime":3140.847,"body":"back against, sort of the idea of"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3140.847,"endTime":3145.087,"body":"conformity itself, of having someone"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3140.847,"endTime":3145.087,"body":"else define their place in the world."},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":3146.017,"endTime":3152.467,"body":"Was Exit alive before the apocalypse"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":3146.017,"endTime":3152.467,"body":"and saw the apocalypse take place, or have"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":3152.467,"endTime":3154.407,"body":"they always lived within the apocalypse?"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3154.792,"endTime":3156.572,"body":"They were not"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3154.792,"endTime":3156.572,"body":"alive for the apocalypse."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3156.642,"endTime":3162.762,"body":"I believe some of the oldest people were"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3156.642,"endTime":3162.762,"body":"alive for it, but Exit is not one of them."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3162.882,"endTime":3164.542,"body":"Exit has only known this world."},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":3165.002,"endTime":3168.312,"body":"It sounds they're very much"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":3165.002,"endTime":3168.312,"body":"a loner, but do they have a family"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":3168.312,"endTime":3170.082,"body":"living higher up in this skyscraper?"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3170.487,"endTime":3171.407,"body":"You know, they might."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3171.807,"endTime":3175.937,"body":"I had always imagined, I brought this"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3171.807,"endTime":3175.937,"body":"up earlier, but them having this person"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3175.937,"endTime":3179.997,"body":"that they  grew up apprenticed to, sort"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3175.937,"endTime":3179.997,"body":"of a surrogate father figure, I never"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3179.997,"endTime":3182.247,"body":"considered blood relatives for them."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3182.267,"endTime":3186.117,"body":"I think that their blood family,"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3182.267,"endTime":3186.117,"body":"their birth parents were either"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3186.167,"endTime":3191.467,"body":"killed in the apocalypse or"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3186.167,"endTime":3191.467,"body":"killed in the horrors afterwards."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3192.032,"endTime":3195.172,"body":"Or just lost Exit somehow."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3195.222,"endTime":3195.852,"body":"I don't know."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3195.862,"endTime":3200.652,"body":"That is a story that sounds very"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3195.862,"endTime":3200.652,"body":"compelling to me that I never considered."},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":3200.702,"endTime":3203.542,"body":"Is there anything"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":3200.702,"endTime":3203.542,"body":"else you'd  to touch on?"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3203.872,"endTime":3207.942,"body":"You know, I will say the"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3203.872,"endTime":3207.942,"body":"plot of this screenplay that I wrote,"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3208.412,"endTime":3215.692,"body":"started with Exit, finding a bomb out in"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3208.412,"endTime":3215.692,"body":"the mists and bringing it back home and"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3215.692,"endTime":3219.422,"body":"being like, huh, this could really  upend"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3215.692,"endTime":3219.422,"body":"the social order of this place, huh?"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3219.692,"endTime":3221.012,"body":"Is that a thing I want to do?"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3221.272,"endTime":3221.962,"body":"I don't know."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3222.002,"endTime":3229.972,"body":"And I found it really interesting to"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3222.002,"endTime":3229.972,"body":"take this unjust, stratified, unequal"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3229.972,"endTime":3235.882,"body":"society and to give to the person"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3229.972,"endTime":3235.882,"body":"who is most on the outside of that"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3235.882,"endTime":3241.122,"body":"society, who's least invested in it,"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3235.882,"endTime":3241.122,"body":"who's most trying to get away from"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3241.122,"endTime":3243.172,"body":"it, the ability to make things right."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3243.612,"endTime":3248.852,"body":"to leverage the threat of a bomb"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3243.612,"endTime":3248.852,"body":"that could bring down the whole"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3248.862,"endTime":3252.342,"body":"skyscraper into making a better world?"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3252.372,"endTime":3256.462,"body":"What happens when you give"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3252.372,"endTime":3256.462,"body":"that person that leverage?"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3256.562,"endTime":3259.712,"body":"The least invested"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3256.562,"endTime":3259.712,"body":"person the most leverage?"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3259.752,"endTime":3265.302,"body":"And everyone else in the place suddenly"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3259.752,"endTime":3265.302,"body":"becomes very interested in this person"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3265.302,"endTime":3269.722,"body":"who wants nothing to do with any of"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3265.302,"endTime":3269.722,"body":"them and now has power over all of them."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3270.032,"endTime":3272.202,"body":"And I found that reversal."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3272.472,"endTime":3275.942,"body":"I mean, I haven't touched"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3272.472,"endTime":3275.942,"body":"this screenplay in four years."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3275.942,"endTime":3276.782,"body":"I should go back to it."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3276.782,"endTime":3279.992,"body":"I mean, it's exciting to me"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3276.782,"endTime":3279.992,"body":"just describing that story."},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":3280.762,"endTime":3281.202,"body":"Exit."},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":3281.282,"endTime":3283.252,"body":"It sounds you're a loner."},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":3283.302,"endTime":3287.702,"body":"And I think a lot of people, when"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":3283.302,"endTime":3287.702,"body":"they feel sad, turn to others."},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":3287.752,"endTime":3290.602,"body":"What do you do to feel"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":3287.752,"endTime":3290.602,"body":"better when you're sad?"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3291.102,"endTime":3295.802,"body":"Well, I don't get really"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3291.102,"endTime":3295.802,"body":"sad  a lot, and I don't really, I"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3295.802,"endTime":3300.652,"body":"don't really bother with that too much,"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3295.802,"endTime":3300.652,"body":"but I think I turn mostly to music."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3300.662,"endTime":3305.062,"body":"I have this Walkman, and I listen to,"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3300.662,"endTime":3305.062,"body":"I have a playlist, and the playlist"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3305.072,"endTime":3310.072,"body":"is exactly the length of how long one"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3305.072,"endTime":3310.072,"body":"outing is supposed to be, one scavenging"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3310.092,"endTime":3315.202,"body":"run, and so when I get back home,"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3310.092,"endTime":3315.202,"body":"I'm in a particular mood, you know,"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3315.202,"endTime":3317.122,"body":"and the playlist really levels me."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3317.182,"endTime":3317.982,"body":"It's, it's a good one."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3318.002,"endTime":3321.872,"body":"And I have playlists for a lot"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3318.002,"endTime":3321.872,"body":"of feelings, you know, if I need"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3321.872,"endTime":3325.182,"body":"to level off from being anger,"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3321.872,"endTime":3325.182,"body":"I got the, the anger playlist."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3325.422,"endTime":3328.792,"body":"And if I need to level off from being"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3325.422,"endTime":3328.792,"body":"lonely, I've got the lonely playlist."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3329.122,"endTime":3332.282,"body":"And I'm a little bit worried"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3329.122,"endTime":3332.282,"body":"about what happens when, you know,"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3332.282,"endTime":3333.582,"body":"everything breaks down eventually."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3333.612,"endTime":3336.032,"body":"But I don't know, I guess hopefully"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3333.612,"endTime":3336.032,"body":"I just hopefully my playlist won't"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3336.032,"endTime":3337.792,"body":"break down until after I after I die."},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":3338.292,"endTime":3341.022,"body":"Do you think that"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":3338.292,"endTime":3341.022,"body":"you'll live a long time?"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3341.242,"endTime":3341.832,"body":"Probably not."},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":3342.172,"endTime":3342.962,"body":"Does that bother you?"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3343.432,"endTime":3345.652,"body":"I mean, I'd"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3343.432,"endTime":3345.652,"body":"prefer I lived a long time."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3345.722,"endTime":3347.322,"body":"I don't know, I don't think"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3345.722,"endTime":3347.322,"body":"anyone lives that long."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3347.392,"endTime":3348.592,"body":"I try to take it a day at a time."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3348.592,"endTime":3349.812,"body":"I focus on tomorrow, you know?"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3349.872,"endTime":3351.112,"body":"I want to beat my high score."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3351.322,"endTime":3352.732,"body":"I want to come back with more stuff."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3352.742,"endTime":3353.952,"body":"Self improvement is important."},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":3354.737,"endTime":3358.697,"body":"Sam, thank you so much for coming"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":3354.737,"endTime":3358.697,"body":"on the podcast and for sharing your"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":3358.707,"endTime":3361.337,"body":"character with me and my listeners today."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3361.367,"endTime":3362.677,"body":"Yeah, thanks"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3361.367,"endTime":3362.677,"body":"so much for having me."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3362.677,"endTime":3363.527,"body":"This was a blast."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3363.567,"endTime":3364.807,"body":"I really really loved being here."},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":3364.827,"endTime":3365.567,"body":"Thank you."},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":3365.627,"endTime":3369.707,"body":"I'm going to put links in the description"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":3365.627,"endTime":3369.707,"body":"to all of your channels and things, but"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":3369.707,"endTime":3372.267,"body":"are there any projects you'd  to share?"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3372.357,"endTime":3374.387,"body":"Just the"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3372.357,"endTime":3374.387,"body":"Dice Exploder podcast."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3374.437,"endTime":3375.757,"body":"Come on down and listen to it."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3375.797,"endTime":3378.467,"body":"We got a discord going too"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3375.797,"endTime":3378.467,"body":"that I'm really happy with."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3378.747,"endTime":3382.692,"body":"If you like RPG mechanics and"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3378.747,"endTime":3382.692,"body":"design, I got the show for you."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3382.742,"endTime":3383.402,"body":"That's the main thing."},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":3383.952,"endTime":3386.492,"body":"Do you have a personal"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":3383.952,"endTime":3386.492,"body":"favorite when it comes to mechanics?"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3386.592,"endTime":3388.912,"body":"What is"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3386.592,"endTime":3388.912,"body":"my favorite RPG mechanic?"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3388.982,"endTime":3393.032,"body":"I ask everyone that question"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3388.982,"endTime":3393.032,"body":"when they come into the discord."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3393.102,"endTime":3397.342,"body":"And I am only now realizing that I"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3393.102,"endTime":3397.342,"body":"avoided answering it by virtue of"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3397.402,"endTime":3399.142,"body":"having created the discord myself."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3399.192,"endTime":3402.602,"body":"I think a highlight for me is."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3402.992,"endTime":3408.852,"body":"The single word from the game We"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3402.992,"endTime":3408.852,"body":"Are But Worms, a one word RPG."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3408.892,"endTime":3414.582,"body":"I will not give away what the word"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3408.892,"endTime":3414.582,"body":"is, but I find that game inspiring."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3414.862,"endTime":3417.802,"body":"And the word in question,"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3414.862,"endTime":3417.802,"body":"to be delightful."},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3417.852,"endTime":3418.442,"body":"So I will answer that."},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":3418.512,"endTime":3420.892,"body":"I, yeah, I think that's gonna"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":3418.512,"endTime":3420.892,"body":"make a lot of people look that up."},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":3420.902,"endTime":3424.232,"body":"I mean, how can you, how can you hear that"},{"speaker":"Star","startTime":3420.902,"endTime":3424.232,"body":"and not want to know what the word is?"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3424.772,"endTime":3428.522,"body":"I did a 70 minute episode"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3424.772,"endTime":3428.522,"body":"about that word, so, you know, come"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3428.522,"endTime":3432.222,"body":"on down to the podcast after you check"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3428.522,"endTime":3432.222,"body":"out the game and you can hear me talk"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3432.252,"endTime":3438.332,"body":"about 433 and Fountain and high art"},{"speaker":"Sam Dunnewold","startTime":3432.252,"endTime":3438.332,"body":"and ranking games and how it's bad."}]}