Don Rigals, Communist Clark Kent - Representation and Speaking Out with AC Lawrence (Call of Cthulhu)

Adrian Lawrence brings Don Rigals to the table. Don is a fur-obsessed secret communist delving into New York's underground to find his brother.

Adrian and I discuss being outspoken about your political values, the power of representation, and not being "Mexican enough."

This character is built for Call of Cthulhu.

AC Lawrence is a Mexican-American DM who co-hosts a podcast named Dungeons & Degrees, where he interviews individuals in the TTRPG space to show that the path to creativity isn't just a single path. They also have been a part of many charity events for numerous causes that use TTRPGs as outreach to raise money.

You can learn more about Adrian at:
https://www.characterswithoutstories.com/guests/adrian-lawrence

In Panda’s Talking Games, Phil and Senda are queer creators who answer your TTRPG questions. They describe it as Car Talk, but for your tabletop roleplaying game.”
https://polygamero.us/category/podcasts/panda

At Session Zero Heroes we believe in the power of storytelling through tabletop roleplaying games and use a variety of TTRPG systems to create these stories which we share through the podcast medium.
https://www.sessionzeroheroes.com

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Thanks for listening, and may all your characters find their stories!

Transcript

Adrian: 0:00

I didn't feel like I was represented in TTRPGs until I saw Carlos Luna, and that was like, hey, he looks like me. So I became a communist. I didn't feel good enough to be call myself Mexican or play Mexican characters because I felt like I was like a phony, obsessed with furs. Yeah. And then in the quote, I put gotta have it.

Star: 1:09

Hello, friends. Welcome to Characters Without Stories, a TTRPG podcast about the roads not yet traveled. I'm Star. This episode, I'm joined by Adrian Lawrence. Adrian is a Mexican American DM who co hosts a podcast called Dungeons and Degrees, where he interviews individuals in the TTRPG space to show that the path to creativity isn't just a single path. They have also been a part of many charity events for numerous causes that use TTRPGs as outreach to raise money. Adrian, how long have you been playing TTRPGs?

Adrian: 1:43

Oh, boy. I had an early experience back when I was just a wee lad. I want to say like eight or nine or something like that. My dad got the starter set and I was really wanting to try it out. And, uh, he was our DM with me and my brother and we played a game. We got jumped by a bunch of rats, and we had died. And we were just rolling horribly. And I'm like, I'm never playing this game again. And I stopped until college.

Star: 2:08

Wow.

Adrian: 2:09

Yeah, it was dramatic. And then I started There was, like, a weekly game. I would get off of work at, like, 3 a.m., and we played until the donut shop down the road was open, and then we just knocked out. It was a good time.

Star: 2:24

Wow.

Adrian: 2:25

College. So carefree. Uh, now, couldn't imagine doing that.

Star: 2:30

Oh, my goodness. I used to stay up so late. If it was really up to me, I think I'd be up till two and three in the morning. But unfortunately, my kid likes to wake up at six a.m. So.

Adrian: 2:43

Wow.

Star: 2:43

Yeah.

Adrian: 2:45

An in house timer. I love it.

Star: 2:49

So you're bringing a character for Call of Cthulhu today. How long have you been playing Call of Cthulhu?

Adrian: 2:55

I, for Call of Cthulhu, I think I've played roughly around three games in the past, like, two years. It's really hard to get a DM to learn a new system and understand the finer points and be able to then teach it to other people. So, like, I was the one being taught. I've made two characters and the one that I've brought to the table was Don Rigals. A character that was only made for a half session that unfortunately got cut short, just times didn't match up. But I was just so interested in the different side of character creation, because you roll a d100 versus the d20 for Call of Cthulhu, versus, you know, most, I guess, d20 systems. Or like, Dungeons and Dragons, which is like the, to be honest, like the catch all for most people who are laymen into the field. But yeah, it was, it was fun. I got to show some of my, be more outspoken in what I believed in like a political field. Cause they're like, Oh yeah, one of the characteristics we rolled for was like, Oh, you just have to be like really, really outspoken. I'm like, I think I can do that. So I became a communist, uh, which was funny. I'm not, I'm not like full blown, but like I have very leftist values. So it was just fun to, to express them there. It's like, yeah, the means of production should go to the worker. And then everyone's like, Oh, he said it!

Star: 4:19

Your friends that you were playing with, how did they respond to that? Are they, do they have the same values as you?

Adrian: 4:24

Oh, see, because there was only one other player with me, he was just, like, egging me really hard, but he was in character. He was like, oh, you're one of them red bastards. And I'm like, I'm just, I'm just saying, man, like, like, just, it seems like it's just all at the top and the working man's getting nothing. And I'm just, like, really kind of sticking it to him. But they're like, like, I think that's where we ended the session of me just ranting about communism. And then I didn't get to go further with that.

Star: 4:58

I'm curious. Sometimes when people build a character, they make a lot of choices on their own. Sometimes they do a lot of rolling to figure out what their character's good at, or even basic characteristics. For this character, did, you said that you rolled for your stats. Did you roll for all of them? Did you make certain choices and leave the rest to the rolls, to the dice?

Adrian: 5:19

Let's see. I think because in the system, you get pointed to your main stats, which are like, strength, constitution, size, dexterity, appearance, which is like the charisma adjacent, intelligence, power, which is more like strength and stuff, education, and luck. You roll 3d6, times it by five for most of those things, and then there's special rolls for the other rolls, but then you get to put points into your actual character sheet. It looks like so much stuff. And to be honest, at first, when you glance at it, and it's like, you know, skill page for 5e is just like maybe 10, 12. This thing has like a row like that, but three columns down across the field. And I put a lot into psychology. I put a lot into photography because like those as an individual, those are my, my interests. I have a bachelor's in psychology in high school and college. I took photography classes. I put that part of me in there to kind of develop my character to kind of like seed myself into it. And especially with like a new system, it's hard for me to be like, oh, I know what's good and what's not good or what's going to come up and could not come up. Because from my experience, it all depends on the dungeon master. It all depends on how they play. And then also what the hell am I doing? I have no idea. And just choosing each of these things, it was tough, but you're going to have some dump stats and sometimes you're not going to be able to roll it, but it's good. It's cool. It's cool. I like it.

Star: 6:50

I've only played Call of Cthulhu, two or three times, and Every time I've used the like quick start character builder thing because I'm like, oh my god, this is very confusing.

Adrian: 7:03

It's intimidating.

Star: 7:03

It's yeah, it's pretty intimidating. But one of the things that I like about the kind of quick start approach is that they give you, you choose an occupation and then it's like this and this and this will be good for that occupation. But it's funny because one of the times I played and I don't even know if this was like a book standard quick start kind of thing. I was playing an artist. And you'd think, fine art, like painting, where is that going to come in? And because of the person running it, my friend Meadow, it was very important. I used that skill a lot and it's not something that you'd immediately think of using. I think of photography as maybe one of those things where you're like, maybe this will come up, maybe not.

Adrian: 7:44

Oh my gosh, I put so many points into it. I put 80 points into it. I was using it because like Okay, this guy is a journalist. He's going to use photography in order to take a picture of what the anomaly. And I was mainly just like being able to use it as like a way to potentially filter myself away from the horrors that were going to happen. And that was my mind. It was a potential shield. I was used it a couple times, but this GM, played it very RP heavy, which I'm fine with. I'm not opposed to it. So I'm trying to remember if it felt like I used it a lot. I think I've used it enough for a half, half session. Once is good enough.

Star: 8:25

In a half session, that's pretty good.

Adrian: 8:28

Exactly.

Star: 8:29

So you mentioned that you bring a lot of yourself into a character, particularly when you're learning a new system. Is that something you use as an approach every time you play a character or build a character?

Adrian: 8:41

A lot of the characters don't get to see enough light, or I'm the DM, so I'm usually just like, all the characters I make are like, on the spot, and sometimes, because of who I am, I need to be a little silly. For one shots with my friends, I have one name, because names are hard, so I just use the same name over and over and over, but the person, the character itself, is completely different. And it just makes, helps me relax. I'm not taking myself serious. I don't have to worry about the game mechanics as much. I just have to, I'm here to have fun. So I'm going to push that to the limit. So I play ridiculous one off characters all the time, but like for. Call of Cthulhu, that's not the thing.

Star: 9:23

Yeah, yeah, you're not playing a ridiculous little monster, kobold, or goblin.

Adrian: 9:29

Goblingnomeno, all the short people. I like the little, I like the little guys of the TTRPGs.

Star: 9:35

Just the little guy, yeah.

Adrian: 9:37

Yeah, they're fun. I don't know why, I don't know, I think, I think elves are boring, if that's controversial. It's like, it's like, Like, the vanilla of TTRPG, I mean, also there's humans.

Star: 9:49

I feel like humans are actually less vanilla than elves, because everybody wants to be an elf, because they get darkvision, and they're all, you know, beauty, whatever.

Adrian: 9:58

Longevity.

Star: 9:59

How many people play humans? I actually think that there's not as many people as we might assume that play humans.

Adrian: 10:05

Usually the min maxers, because they want that extra, like,

Star: 10:09

Variant human.

Adrian: 10:10

Yeah, exactly. You already know.

Star: 10:14

I know, I know. I've done it myself, okay?

Adrian: 10:18

We have to know, we have to know what it tastes like, you know?

Star: 10:22

I'm really curious, you say you give your characters the same name over and over again? Is it Don or is it something else?

Adrian: 10:28

It's Jimothy McTavish. And then it was Special Agent McTavish, because he was a cop. And then it was Jay, Moth, McTavish, and Moth, it was like a leopard person. So it had like the patterns of a moth. And then there was, there was one more. I think there was just Jay McTavish. I think that was, oh, just Jim. And then just like shortened to McTavish. And that guy was, I was late to a game. I didn't prepare. And I said, hey, because I didn't prepare, it was a one shot, and I didn't make a character. All my stats are 10. I actually don't have any abilities. And I want to see how long this guy lasts. The DM was like, sure, fine. It was like this magical academy, and I was just like, the guy who just accidentally got in. Fun, fun stuff. And I, the only thing I did was like, help people, and climb ropes, and just do manual labor. And while they're like fighting a hydra, just shooting down magic, and I'm just like, let's go guys. We just gotta, we just gotta hide up there. I don't know where that goes, but it's fun.

Star: 11:27

Nice. So what of yourself have you brought into Don?

Adrian: 11:31

Definitely psychology, definitely photography. A lot of it was just rolled after that. So I put a brother, which I do have, and I, we get seen as the same person. This last weekend, his girlfriend came down to go to her brother's graduation and I went with her to just help her chaperone and everyone was like, Oh, why didn't know? And then I'll just say my brother's name. Dante was coming. I'm like, oh, no, I'm Adrian. I'm so sorry. It was everybody except for the grandmother who just like, who are you? I'm like. Oh, someone noticed me. So I guess the brother aspect of this. Other than that, I can't, I can't, I'm not a chain smoker. Yeah, I think that's basically it. Everything else was rolled for. I don't know. You always got to put a little bit of yourself in some characters. The reason why I do is just so I don't have to process RP as much. I don't have to filter myself through a different lens, like a totally different lens and also try to figure out. how to play this game. Closer it is to my own kind of how I would speak and act, the easier it is to focus on the gaming aspect. And so that way it's still fun for people. I'm not like totally out of it. You know, I do an amazing speech, but then I'm like, all right, what do I roll? Which is, it's fine. It's fine to ask, but it's like, I want to make sure that I actively looking myself for the information. So it's not all in the DM. And I think that's just because I've been the DM for the majority of my time playing TTRPGs.

Star: 13:02

Personally, one of the things that I have the most trouble being very different from myself is in values and morals. I've never played an evil character. You're talking about taking your own kind of political values into this character. Is that something that you do across characters?

Adrian: 13:22

Not actively. But if I portray myself, yeah. I have some left leaning values, and a lot of people just, like, think it's crazy, like, that people should have housing. Like, but who's gonna pay for it? Like, taxes, man. We pay for the military. Why can't we pay for this? Recently, because, well, I knew about the, your podcast through the charity that we work together, Doctors Without Borders, and this year I've been trying to, one, play more games, and two, be a little bit more outspoken about my beliefs, stop being a passive observant, talk more, and how I translate that to my characters, or my, how I play, Is that, usually, I put some scenarios about, like, not everything is black and white, or not everything is just as you see it. There's some deeper message into my DMing. It's hard for me to be like, I know the answer to how to find affordable housing in a campaign setting, but I definitely try to avoid racism in my games, and, and, you know, because like people are like, oh, orcs are inherently evil, and elves are just these, like, holier than thou. And I'm just like, I don't really want to deal with that, because, uh, I've dealt with it on occasion, just as I am. I don't really want to think about that. They're like, oh, how did this, these people come about? I'm like, they're just there. That's it. I don't want to put restrictions on class, race, and anything like that. I just, like, let my players have fun. Don't worry about the political ramifications of race, because I don't want to deal with that. So I think that's the major way, just how I DM.

Star: 15:00

Yeah. So you DM a lot more than you get a chance to play.

Adrian: 15:06

Oh, yeah. I am certified DM for life. I try my best. The only way I'm going to get into games is if I talk to other DMs. So, like, during the charity event. I was able to talk with Northwolf911 to play a game there in Walking Dead, which was fun. And then Johnny from TalkingXP, I got to play. So I was super excited. I got to do, just do whatever. And it was so much fun. And I got to play new systems that I've never played before, which is a plus because learning games, trying to slowly shift myself away from Wizards of the Coast as much as I can.

Star: 15:42

Yeah. What is it about Call of Cthulhu that interests you?

Adrian: 15:46

Horror. The idea that you can't fully win, like these are these Eldritch horrors. You're not supposed to be the hero. You're supposed to be the survivor. Someone to tell the tale. You are not the holier than thou knight. You're just a little guy and try to survive. I, I, I like that. The, the, I guess that that idea of not being able to be the hero, which goes, we've another game I play, uh, 10 candles.

Star: 16:11

Oh, yeah.

Adrian: 16:11

Very powerful. It was like. Even though you know you will die, you must have hope. Oh! Gut wrenching stuff! That stuff, ooooh, punches you. I mean, I don't know, maybe I'm just a dark person, but I like those games.

Star: 16:28

So you like games to have that kind of emotional resonance?

Adrian: 16:32

Yes, I'm a person that is full of emotion. So, so much emotion. Can't get enough of it. I like the, the heartstring pulling. The, the being able to delve into things that not just in the old game could, and within one session. Because like, when you play heroes, you'll have, you know, romance, or justice and winning and things like that. But like, what about the other things we can do? There's like some silly games out there that'll make you laugh a lot more than D&D that like, it's like purposely absurd. So like there's other games that will evoke those different emotions. And I think I haven't played them enough. And that's why I feel like, oh, these dark games, these heavier games, are more for me because I love that feeling of like, we're just telling stories and we're just hurting by it.

Star: 17:23

Yeah, I'm with you there. I think one of the things that I love about Call of Cthulhu is how fragile your characters are. They could die at any moment. You're going to lose that character, probably. You're lucky if they get through any sort of campaign.

Adrian: 17:40

Yes.

Star: 17:41

Most of the time I've played Call of Cthulhu, it's a one shot and honestly, it feels appropriate.

Adrian: 17:47

Oh, yeah.

Star: 17:49

I think it's a game that's well suited to one shots because of that. How attached do you get to a character knowing that they're fragile?

Adrian: 17:58

I think that's my answer to that, mentally, because I think I was very attached to all my characters, was the idea of Jimothy McTavish. I would do so much research into a name. I would do so much research into how they're acting and how they're doing. Like, research as in, like, looking up color palettes and looking up, oh, this move would fit them because X, Y, and Z. That kind of research, not like anything else. I did that a lot early on. And then when we didn't play, I was heartbroken. Or when they died, I was heartbroken. And I'm like, I'm tired, I'm tired of making these characters that die. I just need to understand that that is going to happen. So I'm going to make sure that I like having fun is priority because I don't want to always just be heartbroken. And I'm going to just have a silly little guy, Jimothy McTavish, and then he'll be whoever they need to be at the time. I get attached so fast. I'm a guy that's full of emotions.

Star: 18:52

Speaking of attachments, let's get into Don's backstory a little bit. You said that Don has a brother. What is his brother's name and what is their relationship like?

Adrian: 19:03

Uh, Don has a twin brother, the name is Sebastian, from what I can read. He showed me how to be an individual from a town that always grouped us. And I think that it was essentially like I needed somebody to look, not directly up, but appreciate more. And I guess I kind of saw that as like, okay, I just need to make sure that me and him have a relationship that's good. So if he goes missing, I have a reason. Because I think the DM had said, Hey, your brother went looking for something. He's missing. There you go. Outside of that, they grew up in Nebraska, very corn-fed boys. Um, and if they're out there, they're definitely just going to be paired all the time. They're going to grow up being seen as just two and not as individuals. And to be honest, like I've had like a handful of twins in my school. So like, I could see that it's like, Oh, it's the Rodriguez brothers. And it's like, and it's like, Can you even tell them apart? Blah, blah, blah. I'm like, yeah. I mean, I think I took my time to really look at that because I, I don't know why I felt that when people do that, when they pair things off, they just remove the individuality. So I wanted to make sure that I knew them. So I felt like I brought that into Don and what he thoughts. He doesn't have any partners. Don has a bird, Wanda.

Star: 20:22

That's adorable. What kind of bird?

Adrian: 20:24

Meadowlark.

Star: 20:25

You mentioned that your brother Dante looks a lot like you are you two twins or you just look a lot alike.

Adrian: 20:33

A year younger, but taller You just look a lot alike.

Star: 20:37

Did you ever get confused for each other?

Adrian: 20:39

All the time It's just it's just part of it. You know, you come from the same parents one year apart, it's gonna happen. He had like a very distinguishing little splotch of blonde in his hair. But like recently he's grown out of it, it just kind of disappeared. We used to get confused all the time, like stopped in the hallways. Hey, you're supposed to be in, you're going to your class now. Okay, never mind. I think the idea of trying to be an individual, when we were also kind of paired up, I tried to do that. And then also me and him got into some trouble, not collectively, just against each other. I was very aggro about a situation. And I think I started a fight at school with him. And I think it was cause he was like, kind of like starting to encroach in my friend group. He started to like date a girl that was in it. So then he sat in here. I'm like, what are you doing here? And I think I was trying to make a, like an individual of myself. So.

Star: 21:29

Yeah. Yeah, I feel that

Adrian: 21:31

it was interesting.

Star: 21:32

I think one of the things that made me most mad at my sister, my younger sister was when she took a piece of clothing from me, like a jacket, and she wore it to school and she told everybody that it was hers. Oh, my god. I was so angry because it was the same thing. We were very close in age. They look similar. So it was like, I need something that's mine.

Adrian: 21:54

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, gosh. I don't know if I threw something at the jacket or I ripped it or something. And then he told me this is your jacket. And that pissed me the hell off. Oh my gosh. Uh, good times. We're good now. I mean he he's living all the way in Florida. So well, there's this thing that when you get around your your sibling like you guys work well together and then all of a sudden I just can't stand them. That's my relationship, at least with my youngest brother. We work very well together, but not for long periods of time.

Star: 22:33

What was the setting for the Call of Cthulhu game? Was it in Nebraska, where they were from?

Adrian: 22:39

Uh, New York.

Star: 22:41

Call of Cthulhu in Nebraska is, I've never heard anything like that, and it sounds amazing.

Adrian: 22:45

It sounds like endless cornfields, and then just being stuck in them. This was in New York, but I was, I wanted my person to be from somewhere small. And, I don't know why, I don't think I had a reason, I just thought, Omaha, Nebraska, why not?

Star: 23:00

Mm hmm.

Adrian: 23:01

And then we were just, both moved to New York, get out of the small town, make names for ourselves.

Star: 23:05

How long has Don been living in New York?

Adrian: 23:09

Don's been living in New York for, making this up on the spot, He's 25. I'm gonna think he got out of high school and he just moved immediately. So I think he was probably in there for at least 7 years. Not sure if he went to college or he just started to just work for newspapers, but he started from low rung and then just 7 years working at the paper finally became a journalist.

Star: 23:30

He is a photographer, or he also writes?

Adrian: 23:33

He writes. He does, like, he snaps a pic and, like, gotchas, but also he's been, because of the setting, people have been coming to him."There's something out there. There's something out there." So he's been, like, looking, investigating slightly, probably asked his brother about it, and his brother went to go look out and then disappeared.

Star: 23:50

How prepared was Don for this kind of encounter? How much did he know? Did he know that there was some sort of eldritch horror or was he just like, maybe there's an alligator in the sewers? You know what I mean?

Adrian: 24:04

He was skeptical. He did not think there was anything else out there. There's already trouble enough. What, why worry about an eldritch horror? You know, rack it up to lead paint in the walls. Like, I don't know. People are seeing things. You know, when meeting with that, try to play it off. Try to think of something rational. But ultimately, when you see something that cannot be explained away, your sanity is gonna get hit.

Star: 24:29

Did he prepare for these encounters? Does he bring a backpack and a flashlight and a gun or is he just heading into danger without a care?

Adrian: 24:39

Okay, his gear and possessions. as by the book. Survival bag? I don't know what's in there. Flashlight, pad, and pencil. That is it. No guns. He's got a hunting knife, and he's got his fists, and that is it.

Star: 24:54

Well, it's not like you can really fight Cthulhu anyways.

Adrian: 24:57

Correct. That's just to make you feel safer.

Star: 25:01

Yeah, exactly.

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Star: 26:39

What does Don look like?

Adrian: 26:41

I think when I first pictured Don, I thought very Superman esque, you know, very broad, short black hair. And to be honest, I think this is right before I started to make my characters look a little bit more like me. So I think he was white at the time. Probably not as sun kissed as he was in his youth, New York, it was a little bit more building structured versus outside. I picture him with a white button up and suspenders, still from his, his farm days, he just still has that in him. And some nice black slacks and nice shoes. No glasses, no glasses, he didn't need to hide his identity.

Star: 27:17

This sounds a lot like Clark Kent.

Adrian: 27:19

Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. It was one of those games where I was just like, I gotta figure out this is, this is this, that's it. Like, you know, I didn't think too much about it. It's easy to pull things from other media sources to draw inspiration because, you know, the only way you're gonna get inspiration is from the things you've already seen. Everything's inspired from everything else around it.

Star: 27:41

Do you often pull inspiration from other media when you're building characters?

Adrian: 27:46

Not in the McTavish's. I feel like, less about appearance, more about, like, story structure. Because it's hard to make a new, original story without checking every single thing that's been out there, you know? I feel like I do with characters that I have to pull out of my head, and I just, okay, here's an attribute I like from a character. Let's go with, can't do it right now because I'm talking about it. Listen, if I had my GM brain, I would have just, like, made something up by now. I can't. And it's all of a sudden just blanking, but, like, I find an attribute that's likeable or something that I can build a personality around, and then I just build it outwards into the world, and that's the only adjustments I do, and then I just work with that. I try to make original, but, like, the more I think about the characters, I'm like, oh, well, this sounds like X, Y, and Z. One of my first characters when I was coming back into TTRPGs, they made fun of me because I said, Oh, he doesn't have his parents. They're like, Oh another orphan. This was a bad DM GM experience, I'll be real. So it didn't matter but I try to think about it. I'm like, okay, I watch a lot of anime. Naruto doesn't have parents. Bleach -he doesn't have his mom. One Piece -you don't know anything about the parents until much later A lot of these characters don't have parents. Oh, Batman, all the villains from Batman do. They're like all billionaires, but their parents die so they inherit it and they get to do these crazy things. Like, it's just hard to avoid that to be your first trope is dead parents. Because like, one, you don't have to think about what's going on. You're like, uh, less to think about. They're gone. And two, just like, Most of the media, because they want to bring out the parents later or their story later, put them off to the side and just focus on that character. So I've experienced my fair share of being accused of just copying.

Star: 29:31

I think a lot of times, especially for people who are coming from D&D, there's this notion that the GM or the DM is going to use those connections against you. They're going to fridge your family, essentially.

Adrian: 29:44

Yes.

Star: 29:45

And I mean, this is actually the way you, you mentioned it in this Call of Cthulhu game. Essentially, your brother is the impetus for you going into looking for Cthulhu rather than avoiding. You probably wouldn't be going after this unless your family was involved. I mean, it's a powerful motivation, but at the same time, you're, you're playing with that trope as well.

Adrian: 30:09

I think it's just easier that way to find that, like, as long as you have a good relationship with your family, like, yeah, that makes sense. If you don't, you're like, nah, they're dead to me. That's okay. It was by especially if I thought it was a short run, like sure mess with my family, but if it's long run, I'm like, all right, let's talk about this. You know, like GM gun to my freaking draft of my character backstory. Hold up there.

Star: 30:38

Was there anything else that was important in Don's backstory, besides the brother and then their kind of story of coming from Nebraska, working at the newspaper?

Adrian: 30:49

Due to the fact that I was, like, I rolled a lot for these things, I don't think I had too much to kind of, like, seed in a quote unquote importance to the character. You know, I think I played a little around how I wanted this person to be presented and their identity, and that's so essentially, like, Superman's like big and buff, but like I thought, oh, he's been out here in New York for a while, so maybe he's not as buff. So like, dumping strength, make sure his con is good, his appearance is good, things are all mediocre. I can't say that I can think of anything from character creation. When you come into a game, It's hard to, like, put too much into it. It's, it's a lot of like, I don't know, make sure I know some of the rules before I go in. At least be courteous.

Star: 31:32

Yeah, your first character in a new game is often you build your character and you don't know what's going to be useful or what's going to do what you want it to do. And then you play that game and you're like, Oh, next time I'm going to do it a little bit differently.

Adrian: 31:45

It's hard because like, I don't want to meta too much. I'm like. Oh, this guy knows nothing. Why would I put anything into XYZ? Well, but you also don't want to be useless. So make sure that there's some adjacent thing that would assist in the party. Cause you don't want to be this like body that just like, hey, you're there to just get picked up by Cthulhu and throw it out the window. You know, that's all you're there for. You want to be useful to the party, strong, self sacrificing or something like that, or, or smart, being able to get you out of some sort of kind of situation. You got to play to those advantages.

Star: 32:16

We talked about this Clark Kent inspiration. We also talked about you rolling for parts of the character building process. Did the process start with the rolls and then you justified or built around the stats that you rolled? Or did the character concept come first? And then you, you use the rolls to kind of flush it out.

Adrian: 32:38

Definitely the rolls first, mainly the fact I'm learning, I'm figuring this out because names for me kind of hard and also want to make sure my names mean something. This one, it was just from someone that's, I think that's like an actor or voice actor that I, if I remember correctly, I don't remember completely at the time, but I'm like, why not? This is a one off. I like to think about it as I go down, like, as soon as the rolls were made, and I had the choice of putting all those points into each of the columns. Then I had to create something. I had to have some sort of vision. I mean, that's how I do it with most of my games. Because like, you have to give up something. You have to put something low. You can't be good at everything. So like, why am I good at this versus something else? So when I start creating that character, to start building that story when I look at each of the items, helps me decide that. It's not because I want to min max. It's because I think, This person would do it and and not like I'm gonna dump all my stats into something dumb It's like I'm gonna be more reasonable than that. Why is it so diverse? And I think during that time of creating I was still like I'm gonna move some points around still because also I think there's like bonus points at the end, which is nice because like you feel like you're still lacking well, here's a bit your last chance to change something up.

Star: 33:51

Mm hmm Besides photography and psychology, what else is Don good at?

Adrian: 33:57

Uh, spot hidden. 60 points.

Star: 34:00

That's a really good one.

Adrian: 34:01

Yeah, yeah.

Star: 34:03

It's useful.

Adrian: 34:05

I mean, I feel like, okay, why did I want it? Well, he's a journalist. He has a photography. He's gotta find spot hidden. Education, 65. Oh, the other 80 is fast talk, I guess, because he's been in New York and he just, he knows the gimmicks, like the potential of what could go wrong. I think the next highest one is psychoanalysis at 46. It was interesting because there's percentages next to some of these, and I think that's where they start at. And then you put points into them. So psychoanalysis, I put 45 points into. Versus psychology, which I only put 30, but they're like six points apart. Like you have to make big decisions. I did not make this guy want to attack anything. I what 30 in brawl, that's it. What's there that was given to you, but everything else, I didn't think I was going to fight anything. Okay?

Star: 34:54

For the listeners, Call of Cthulhu is a roll under system. So, if you have a 25 in something, you have to roll under 25 to succeed in that skill. It's a little bit punishing to have a low score in something and have to use it.

Adrian: 35:10

Mm hmm. Yeah. I like that system. Especially how it was, the points were divvied out. And just like, you had so many, and so I was like, this seems like a lot. This is nothing like D&D. Oh, it's overwhelming. But it was still fun and, and just using a D100 to, to figure this out'cause then you can get halves and fifths so you can get a success and like a create success or super success. I forget what the words were, but it's so fun. As long as you have a DM for it. It's a nice play.

Star: 35:37

When you said fast talk, the first thing I thought of is fast talking movies from like the 1930s and forties, that kind of style. Was this set in a certain period?

Adrian: 35:47

It was set in 1920s. I just wanted this guy to be, if he's going to get the story, he needs to sweet talk people and make them understand what he's coming at and be a charismatic person. Charm's at 60. Nice. I was aiming for that journalist angle. And when we got into fights, useless.

Star: 36:06

Did you have any difficulty understanding the period or did you do any research, anything 1920s were like?

Adrian: 36:15

I think, I just thought, and I might be wrong, so correct me, somebody out there on the internet. I was thinking like, great Gatsby, like, you know, there's rich people out there, they've got a lot of money, Don is not that guy. So I think of like, these black and white cops and robbers, where people are just like, Yeah, you see? Like mobsters and shit and stuff. Because when I think black and white, I also think of Sin City because just how they made that movie, but very dark because I knew it's Call of Cthulhu, it's going to be dark and gritty. So I didn't do any research other than recalling that kind of media. And usually I think of film first and foremost.

Star: 36:51

I think it's a very interesting time to be a communist, right? In like the roaring twenties, right before the fall of the stock market. Before a lot of communist organizing happening in the thirties, but then pretty close after the Russian revolution. Did any of that come into play, that kind of historical context of being a communist?

Adrian: 37:14

I think because of that, I knew I had to be tight lipped, but like, as soon as it came up, because it was like one of the quirks I had, like, I had to talk about it. I forget how it came up, but it came up like right before we ended the session. And I was just like, Oh yeah. I gotta talk about this. And I kind of started out with code, but some of those buzzwords, but then the character got caught on it was like, oh, you're one of those. Yeah, but it makes sense. Look at us. That's the only time like we swiftly moved out of New York. This big wig had some sort of excavation site out in a different country. So like we moved out of there. So I didn't have to worry about politics.

Star: 37:57

It's interesting to me when you have a character in a game that has something that has to stay hidden, some sort of secret. I think a lot of times people hesitate too much to let something slip and then it never gets revealed. But you got a chance to explore that even within half of a session. How intentional was that?

Adrian: 38:20

Not by my part, because I had totally forgotten about it. And I want to say, the person that was across from me, the other player, was just talking about it, just like, he just brought it up. And then Tony, the GM, was just bursting out laughing because he knew what was coming up. There was no intention, but I've had that experience of just, like, having a secret and then never telling it. And it's hard. It's nice. It's fun. But if you don't say it and the session just ends with it, well, was it really a secret at all to have fun with? And I think people hold their cards too close, and I think some of my players are kind of realizing that. So they, like, are slowly learning how to divulge secrets throughout the story. And I'm super appreciating that, because then they have some nice time to do some RP bucks themselves.

Star: 39:08

I think a lot of times with newer players, there's kind of this hesitancy to have that kind of vulnerability where you're a little bit afraid to reveal things about yourself and maybe as a player to like a little bit afraid of having those kind of emotional moments or those interpersonal conflicts and things like that. Do you ever feel like you have trouble with that, or are you just like a very open, vulnerable person when you play? I mean, even as a GM, I think there are moments where GMs have to also have those emotional moments with players as NPCs.

Adrian: 39:44

Yeah, I think there's like one aspect of being vulnerable that I can't do and I'm trying to but it's a long road like I'm able to do sad and angry and all that intense. I just can't do romance. I'm very guarded as an individual. I think it was like a year or two ago, I played Thirsty Sword Lesbians with my friends.

Star: 40:04

That would be a hard one to play without romance.

Adrian: 40:08

Yeah, no, but I did, I did it, but I was, "yeah, good looking." It was hard. It was just, the words weren't there. The spice wasn't there. And then my players, they fucking loved it because they were making me all blushing and red and embarrassed. It's so hard. I'm starting to learn. I think my longest campaign, there was a player that was trying to flirt with one of my characters and I'm like, no, stop. This person is not interested in you. But eventually, I kind of warmed up and I did small things that I was comfortable. I was like, slowly working my way up. End of the campaign, they got married. Whatever, but I didn't have to do anything else because, end of campaign, throw them away. Go have fun.

Star: 40:50

So you didn't have to play out the wedding or anything?

Adrian: 40:53

I didn't have to play out the wedding, I didn't, any awkward first kiss, I didn't, or like, uh, hand holding things, like, like, I'm a shy guy. I don't know if I saved it or not, but it's just like a, a four hour thing of me just trying. Trying this new skill in front of an audience.

Star: 41:14

It's a little brave to be trying it in front of an audience.

Adrian: 41:18

Yeah. I play some games on live. I think it was a charity thing. And I ate something spicy and it was horrible and it just didn't digest. It just stuck to the bottom of my stomach like a hot coal and I like it was it was a bad time Yeah, I think I'd pick that over the romance though. So

Star: 41:35

Since you're not interested in playing out romance, do you ever consider the sexuality of your characters?

Adrian: 41:43

To be honest I was like, they're all ace, okay? Let's not worry about them. But I think I've become a little bit more thoughtful about it. Not only sexuality, but having non binary characters, having trans characters, things like that. Because I have trans players and I have non binary players, to me it wasn't something that I thought about. And because it became more relevant, it's kind of nice to have someone that looks like you. And it's something that I've learned slowly but surely. Like, I didn't feel like I was represented in TTRPGs. Until I saw Carlos Luna play on Dimension 20, and that was like, hey, he looks like me. And I didn't understand the importance of it until it happened because I was like, oh, these people are having fun. It's fine. I didn't care about religion, sexuality, anything like that. But when I saw him play, I'm like, I could be that guy. I could be the person sitting in that chair. It just shifted my thought completely. My experience now is to have more diversity in how I portray these things. Especially in my games. Sexuality? I'm working on it because I'm the romance thing. Very few people are partnered up, okay? They're just individuals in the background.

Star: 42:55

In your previous characters, you often played white people. Was seeing Carlos Luna the turning point, or did it come afterwards, before that, or?

Adrian: 43:05

It came afterwards. I think there was like, I didn't really see it. I just, it doesn't come up to mind. I didn't notice it. But in my mind, the default is white and I didn't realize like, huh, and if I bet if I grew up with more Hispanic people, I mean I live in San Antonio, I should, right? I should have that default, but it doesn't happen because like in media, you know, and people are like, there's not enough white people. Whatever, fuck y'all. I'm like slowly working on changing that mentality and it's not like it's bad. It just is, you know. I think, I want to say, because I was afraid, and we're going to get into something else now, not how to think about it. As someone who is Mexican American, I have a lot of, the Mexican thing is mainly just my skin color, and sometimes the food I eat, and sometimes I know Spanish, but I only learned it through school because my mom was too busy to teach me. I didn't feel good enough. To be call myself Mexican or play Mexican characters because I felt like I was like a phony.

Star: 44:06

Interesting.

Adrian: 44:07

Yeah, right? Yeah. And that was like part of the, I don't know if people can see the shirt, but I have a shirt on where I talked about my own identity. Being Mexican enough or being white enough was like one of those things I talked about. I'm very white for a Mexican guy, but I make silly voices, right? That's not Mexican. I'm supposed to be machismo. Why I'm supposed to be a strong man, but like, I'm not white enough because I mean, I have skin, I don't know. I can roll my R's sometimes. I know not all Mexican, but like, it's just. There's things that I didn't feel like I was good enough to be so it just felt weird like this limbo slowly Because I'm trying to make sure like I'm still this this skin color. I'm still you know I have that heritage why not and even if I am American America doesn't mean white America's just freaking lines we live within, you know, and there's so many of us that are that American I've had racism thrown at me before, you know, go back to your country shit. And it's like, I would fucking die. I don't know enough Spanish to survive. I've been slowly trying to feel comfortable with when I play those kinds of characters.

Star: 45:18

Do you bring it in when you're GMing? Do you have characters that are Mexican? Or it's a little weird to say Mexican in D&D because it's not like there is a Mexico.

Adrian: 45:28

Right? I just do like they're tan, they're dark skin. I use the tone of their skin because of my, how I just avoided that thing entirely with just like, you can pick any race you want. They're going to be okay. And there's not going to be any racism. That's how I describe them. You know, when people are on fire, you know, someone with darker skin is not going to be like, Whoa, what is that?

Star: 45:52

Yeah, but then you have games like Call of Cthulhu, which take place in a version of our world where those things really are concrete. There is a Mexico.

Adrian: 46:06

There are games out there that have very political things that are entwined into their gameplay, and that's fine. That's okay. I understand that it's going to be part of that world. So I'm okay playing with it. I just don't know if I could act out that stuff in a way that, one, would make me feel comfortable that my players aren't thinking, "hey, this guy's just playing this to be a racist." I don't know if I could GM for it. Like I can. Listen, I've dealt with racism before. I'm fine. I can, if there's like a NPC that's supposed to be the bad guy, you want to use racism, I'm fine with that. I know other people aren't. Because we want to escape. We don't want to live through it in our free time, you know? So I understand it's there and I'm fine with it in those types of games, but let me punch them, you know, as long as you let me punch them, I'm fine.

Star: 46:53

I think a friend of mine said, if there are Nazis in your games, you better be punching them. What are Don's flaws?

Adrian: 47:03

He's afraid of the dentist. Because, like, in Call of Cthulhu, you have to have a fear.

Star: 47:07

Mm hmm.

Adrian: 47:08

So that the DM can have a better way to scare your character. So, afraid of the dentist. And I think the other flaw, and it was rolled, I didn't know how to properly play it, but obsessed with furs? Yeah. And then in the quotes, I put, gotta have it, that's bad, but I didn't get to play it up.

Star: 47:32

The fact that that was on a roll table tickles me. That is very silly, but it's also interesting because furs are a luxury item. You're in the twenties, you're playing a communist. Like I could definitely see that being fun.

Adrian: 47:46

Yeah. Like I'm for the people, but man, all these extinct animals died for this. It's my one thing, okay? Just let me have this one thing.

Star: 47:56

Going to the communist meeting wearing your mink.

Adrian: 48:00

Yeah.

Star: 48:02

Don, if you could have one superpower, what would it be?

Adrian: 48:06

Ah, that's an interesting question. Now do I want my life to be better, or my work to be better. Now, I know this kind of sounds a little fooey, but, uh, mind reading. It would help out so much to get to the truth of a story. I'm pretty good at matching stories, finding the lies myself, but if I had that, I just might be able to get the scoop first. Go to one source. Go to the next source. Immediately. Not having to pry too much or beg or just try to, you know, be the nice guy and say, hey, come on, help me out here. Hopefully I don't read the wrong mind. I hear that there's some people out there that are just like, can feel those things. I never believed it, but if I had that power, I would believe it. I think mind reading would be real nice.

Star: 48:51

Adrian, thank you so much for coming on the podcast and sharing Don with me and my listeners.

Adrian: 48:58

It was a pleasure. It was fun. It was good. Listen, I don't get to talk about these characters. They just lie in a folder in my computer.

Star: 49:08

That's what I'm here for. Is there anything that you want to share with my listeners?

Adrian: 49:12

Yes, I have a podcast called Dungeons and Degrees. We just passed 100 episodes.

Star: 49:19

Wow.

Adrian: 49:19

So, yeah, you know, it's a passion project. So it's very inconsistent because job, life, like I want this to be consistent, but things come up and life happens and you have to go, you got to stop and you got to stop. But hey, I made it to a hundred and some people don't get past the first three or five or eight. Yeah. So I'm happy to be here. I'm having fun with it. It's, it was my way to kind of relax after COVID or like to interact with people during COVID. So yeah, it was really nice. Other than that, if you look up Dungeons and Degrees, I got a Twitch channel and I play out my Friday game on there whenever I can, and that's where most of my stories come from when I talk about things that have been going on. Yeah.

Star: 49:58

For my recommendation this episode, I'd like to introduce you to a podcast called Panda's Talking Games. Phil and Senda are queer creators who answer your TTRPG questions. They describe it as Car Talk, but for your tabletop role playing game. And I think that's apt. Give it a listen. One of the things that any creator wants to know is what people think of their work. For podcasters, it can be especially difficult to get feedback. Did you know that you can now leave comments on individual episodes on Spotify? If you're listening there, I encourage you to leave a comment and let me know what you think about an episode. You may have also noticed a link in my show notes that says, send us a text message. If you have a question you'd like me to answer on a future episode, or just want to leave a comment, send me a message. I started a newsletter. If you'd like to get a behind the scenes peek at the podcast, Follow my other projects like my current all woman actual play and be notified when a new episode drops, you can find the signup form in the show notes or on my website. Please share the podcast with a friend. Word of mouth is the best way to find new listeners. Your recommendations help me immensely. Thank you to all my listeners spreading the word. I'm so grateful. You can find me on TikTok at StarMamaC or on Threads, Blue Sky, Instagram, and Facebook as Characters Without Stories. You can also listen on YouTube at Characters Without Stories or follow the link in the description. My submissions are currently full. I'll announce on the podcast when I'll be accepting more submissions, so keep your ears open. Thanks for listening and may all your characters find their stories.