The Doodle Pro®: Positive Dog Training for Calm Doodles

How to Teach Your Doodle to Come When Called (Rocket Recall Rules, Part 2)

• The Doodle Pro® – Corinne Gearhart • Season 1 • Episode 9

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Does your Doodle ignore you when you call—especially outside or around distractions? Reliable recall isn’t just a party trick. It’s a life-saving skill that can keep your dog safe from traffic, wildlife, or dangerous situations.

In Part 2 of my interview with renowned trainer Lisa Lyle Waggoner, creator of The Original Rocket Recall™, we break down the 12 rules that make recall training reliable, positive, and effective—even for distractible Doodles.

This episode focuses on why recall often fails and what actually works instead.

In this episode, you’ll learn:

  • What to do if your dog ignores you when you call
  • Why scolding or repeating cues makes recall worse
  • When (and why) to change your recall word
  • Why food “stops working” and how to fix it
  • How to get your dog’s attention outside
  • Whether dogs can learn recall without treats
  • What to do instead of disciplining a dog who doesn’t come

🐕 Why recall matters:
Teaching your dog to come when called builds safety, trust, and freedom—not obedience through fear.

🎧 New here?
Be sure to listen to Part 1, where we cover recall myths, common mistakes, and the foundations of reliable recall training.

Next listen:
If your Doodle struggles to focus outside or ignores cues under distraction, cue up “How to Teach Your Dog to Come When Called (Rocket Recall, Part 1)” to start with the foundations.

High-value treats that support recall training
👉 https://thedoodlepro.com/toptreats

🔗 Guest Resources

ilers, including Amazon.

 ❄️🐾 Winter paw care can make a big difference in your Doodle’s comfort during cold, wet, or icy weather. I’ve created a Winter Paw Protection Guide to help Doodle parents protect paws from ice, salt, and winter surfaces while keeping routines calm and realistic.

You can grab it complimentary at https://thedoodlepro.com/winter
.

Corinne Gearhart- The Doodle Pro™: Welcome doodle parents. I am thrilled to have back Lisa Lyle Waggoner. She is such a pro at training and we are so happy to have her here today. If you want to know more about how to teach your dog to come every time I suggest you listen to part one of this interview, where she explains the whys and the why nots of some of the things that she doesn't recommend just giving some of the basics.

But today in this interview and part two, we're going to get more into the nitty gritty of her step by step rules for teaching rocket recall. For those watching on video, this is her book and you can see I'm gonna try to get it on camera there all of my highlights., I just devoured this book and I had all these questions ready to ask Lisa.

And then I got to one of the last chapters that she calls the 12 rules and it summarized all my major questions. 

Lisa Lyle Waggoner: Oh, I'm so glad. That's great. Yes. 

Corinne Gearhart- The Doodle Pro™: And so I asked Lisa, if she wouldn't mind spending some extra time with our doodle parents and going through what she calls the 12 Rules of Recall

Lisa do you mind introducing yourself again to our guests for those who haven't listened to? 

Lisa Lyle Waggoner: Oh, sure. I'll be happy to Lisa Lyle Waggoner and our company is Cold Nose College. My husband is also a professional dog trainer, so he's my business partner and we have four other trainers who work with us under the Cold Nose College umbrella.

Corinne Gearhart- The Doodle Pro™: I love, love, love this book. In the beginning, you explained a lot of the science and the whys of the different steps that you created to build a rock solid rocket recall.

 I like that with having the whys in the beginning, if something isn't working, you can return to that, and you have that knowledge foundation to know why it's not working. If you're training independently here with your puppy but you also teach it in a way that your eyes don't glaze over and it still stays interesting for someone who doesn't train dogs for profession.

So I really appreciated it. 

Lisa Lyle Waggoner: Just makes me so happy to hear you say that. It's important to be able to have easily understood concepts. Otherwise you don't wanna pay attention to them, but if you have that ground level of support and understanding of why, then you're better set up for success.

And then when you stumble, which we all stumble stumble is, just that normal speed bump that crops up in training learning never goes from point a to point Z. It's not a straight line, moves like a roller coaster, if you will. You can go back and understand okay.

Maybe, I didn't have a high enough value reinforcer for this distraction. I'm a firm believer in creating a reinforcement hierarchy, which means you understand your dog's distractions and you understand what your dog will work for in the presence of that distraction.

Corinne Gearhart- The Doodle Pro™: I completely agree before owning my own business. I've worked for many bosses and companies, I am more motivated if I am paid accordingly. And after a week of working somewhere that's really difficult, if somebody just gave me a pat on the head and said, good girl, I'm not gonna work so hard the next week, no matter how much value I find in the work for 

Lisa Lyle Waggoner: And, reinforcement needs to continue. We never stop totally reinforcing, or we lose a behavior. We did a television spot last week and the host of the show was asking about food. And she said, do you ever stop using food? And I said, I may stop using food, but I use another reinforcer because a behavior to stay strong does need to be reinforced.

And I said, I bet, Julie, I bet you are so good at your job here, but has your boss stopped paying you? I bet you're still getting paid every week or once a month for the work you do. So a job well done should be reinforced in some way, shape or form. 

Corinne Gearhart- The Doodle Pro™: What people's goal that they think they're trying to attain would be; they kept docking her pay every time because she was getting better at it.

So since she was more successful, she should get paid less or not at all.

Lisa Lyle Waggoner: Yeah. And so let, me add this too. I have recalled my dog to me previously and then not had food on me. Not had a tug toy on me. I had nothing but me but guess what? Because of the way I'm reinforcing my dog, there's a strong reinforcement history with me.

So I'm a reinforcer. I flop down on the ground and play with my dog. Yes. And that's really reinforcing to him. 

Corinne Gearhart- The Doodle Pro™: And that's really different than the pat on the head, good boy, move along. 

Before we get into these 12 rules, can you remind our listeners why teaching your dog to come when you call them is a life saving skill.

Lisa Lyle Waggoner: Absolutely. You never know where you're going to be with your dog when you choose to let them off leash. I don't take risks with my dogs that I did 10 or 15 years ago. Yeah. I'm, more careful, but if you have your dog off leash somewhere, maybe that's off leash in your yard.

You never know when your gate's going to be open. You never know when they're going to be distracted beyond what you thought they were And if you have trained through distractions and have trained a solid recall when you call it will save your dog's life so it can keep them out of harm's way.

Corinne Gearhart- The Doodle Pro™: When I look in your book, I see you described the 12 rules of recall, I'm gonna read this tiny passage. "What is a rocket recall? It is that glorious moment. When any time and anywhere you say come your dog immediately, and enthusiastically turns on a dime and bounds rapidly to you."

So that is the dream. And I appreciate that you gave us the steps on how to get there. So your first rule is train it, practice it. Can you tell us 

Lisa Lyle Waggoner: more what you mean by that? Without a doubt, recall the learned behavior, just like anything else we teach. Dogs don't come with the English software package.

So they don't know what come means. They don't know what sit means. We have to teach them what we want them to do, and then reinforce them for that. When you're practicing a new behavior or trained in a new behavior, you first need to do in an environment that's not distracting.

And so I tell people that it indoors off-leash recall within your house is like a high school diploma. Pretty easy to get because it's a low distraction environment. Yeah. At least most homes are, but outside an off-leash recall is like a PhD it takes a little more time and attention and work to get there, but it's possible.

Corinne Gearhart- The Doodle Pro™: Your second rule, and we touched on this briefly used the highest value reinforcers for recall practice. So you described that PhD. Can you tell us more about this? 

Lisa Lyle Waggoner: I will. And so in the book, you'll learn more about a reinforcement hierarchy. Recall coming to you, if you think of dog outside, all those wonderful smells, your dog coming back to you

that's a really big deal. Amidst all those distractions since our dogs see the world through their nose, so I wanna pay my dog really, well. So I'm gonna have something that just makes their eyes light up. Yeah. I'd love to have another piece of that, please. Yes. And that may be different for every dog.

I've seen dogs spit out a hot dog and prefer a carrot. Truly. It's , an odd thing. It doesn't happen very frequently, but it's happened before. So I want something my dog is definitely gonna be, saying Not just, eh, I want I don't want that or that's pretty good.

I wanna see them clamoring toward me to say, oh, please, can I have another piece? I'd like them to be mugging me for that food. That's how I know that food is strong enough. I was trying to find something for Keaton my new puppy, all the things that would work with Callie were eh to him, at least in the beginning.

And so cooked some hot dogs, put them in my pocket and where was he? But up in my lap, nosy, my pocket, it's like, yep. 

Corinne Gearhart- The Doodle Pro™: And you recommend in your book gauging what is high value or not to them before you're in that high distraction moment in the field where their nose is just lit up with all of the delicious 

Lisa Lyle Waggoner: smells.

Yeah, absolutely. It's really important to, do the work, to understand what's distracting to your dog and, you probably know you maybe just not have defined it really yet. And then you've probably tried different foods with your dog and you kinda have an idea of what he likes or doesn't like, but then to pair those that with a low value distraction with a low value reinforcer yes.

And medium, medium high. 

Corinne Gearhart- The Doodle Pro™: Your third rule reinforce all check-ins during other times of the day. And that touches on one of your early games that you do with training results. 

Lisa Lyle Waggoner: So a checkin is anytime your dog chooses to look at you or come up to you. So anytime during the day, when Keaton walks up to me or walks by me, I'm gonna say, Hey buddy, good job.

Or cuz he's a puppy right now and we're training. I usually always have food on me, so I'm gonna pay up. Hey buddy. That was a really nice thing to do if we're out in the garden and he waltzes us over to me, I'm gonna give him a piece of food. Yeah. This morning he was rummaging around in the Creek and playing in the Creek and he chose to look at me and come to me without my calling him.

I paid him for that. The more you reinforce. That attention to you, the more you're going to get it. 

Corinne Gearhart- The Doodle Pro™: I completely agree. Rule number four is a common mistake. I see where people can taint or tarnish their recall, and you say, Never call a dog for anything, the dog doesn't like.

So to me, that might be coming in from the yard. You're about to leave the house. You're going to kennel them and they know they're going to be isolated and alone, et cetera. 

Lisa Lyle Waggoner: Yeah. It could also be for people who choose to use safe dog parks. And I think a safe dog park is maybe just you and your dog.

 I happen to not be a fan of dog parks, unless they're very well, run and supervised. Anytime your dog comes to you and you do something to them that they don't like such as giving them a bath, clipping their nails, assuming they don't like their nails clipped. If you call them to you and then you do something that they don't like, what are the chances they're coming to you again?

Less for sure. So if you do have to call your dog in from outside of your backyard to then come in the house and then maybe go to work, if you kennel them, do something else within when you come in, play a game at tug play a short little game before you kennel them, and hopefully you're giving them some sort of an enrichment tool when they're in their crate or kennel as well.

Corinne Gearhart- The Doodle Pro™: So that coming to you, when you've called doesn't equal punishment in their eyes or the removal of the thing that they enjoyed. 

Lisa Lyle Waggoner: Yeah. Coming to you should always be, I wanna say reinforced, but always should be met with something that the dog likes. Yes. 

Corinne Gearhart- The Doodle Pro™: Excellent. And that goes into rule number five.

If you don't think your dog will come, don't waste the cue. 

Lisa Lyle Waggoner: Absolutely. If your dog, is already chasing a squirrel, don't waste your cue. Because every time you say your cue we want your dog to return because that means they're gonna get reinforced and that reinforcement is gonna make that behavior stronger.

So if your dog, is out in the backyard, barking at a neighbor, dog, He's aroused. He's probably not going to hear you. So just go get your dog, walk up to your dog, walk closer to him and invite him to come in the house. It's, a natural thing for dogs to be distracted out of doors.

And the protocol in my book helps you understand how to work through those distractions and how to level your training so that you are always building upon the last step for further success.

Corinne Gearhart- The Doodle Pro™: And you really detail in your book if you've made those mistakes, which are really common of calling your dog away from something to something they don't like, coming up with new novel cue, that could be more effective because you haven't burned it. You haven't made it ineffective by making those couple of mistakes. 

Lisa Lyle Waggoner: I think life is more fun when we're using fun words. Yes. And recall is certainly more fun if we're using fun words.

I'm taking a training class right now. That's taught by a young trainer who took a workshop from us years ago and she was recounting the story of taking our workshop. And she said, I learned to make my recall queue fun. And her recall cue is pickles. Now, how fun is that pickles? You can't be growly or stern when you're yelling pickles.

That, begs the question. What kind of voice do we wanna speak to our dog in what kind of kind of voice do we want to say? I recall Q in a loving, fun voice. It might need to be loud. Yeah. If your dog is at a distance from you, but yeah. Let's pick a fun cue. Shaza cookie lottery!

Yes. Yeah. Make, it fun. Pickle.

Corinne Gearhart- The Doodle Pro™: I use boomerang. I want it to be something I don't wanna hide my head in the sand. If I've yelled it like happy hour, which I know is cute too. If I'm outside where adults might come running but you can't angrily and sternly. Even if I feel frustrated, I can't angrily yell boomerang.

It just, it doesn't come out that way. Exactly. But why would a dog want to come to you? If you're sternly yelling, come. I if, my husband said that, that way to me, I'd go the other direction. I wouldn't feel like it'd be a delightful thing to rejoin that person talking to me in that way. 

Lisa Lyle Waggoner: Exactly I want my relationship with my dog. To be like, the relationship is with my partner and it happens to be my husband we have just a supportive, respectful relationship and I wanna have a supportive, respectful relationship with my dog. We are partners. We are a team together.

And we have a bond because of the time we spend together. Yes. And so that's important too, but goes beyond the recall training you, the more, time you spend with your dog doing things, you both enjoy operative word. You both enjoy then the stronger that bond is going to be. 

Corinne Gearhart- The Doodle Pro™: And I do love that aspect of your method because it only adds to that relationship and solidifies it as opposed to breaking it down, to just get obedience because you made a command.

So I really love that piece of it. So rule number six, you say, if you make a mistake on rule number five, by using the cue and the dog doesn't respond, save the recall. Can you tell me more? 

Lisa Lyle Waggoner: You mean, oh when we talk about saving the recall, I just have to laugh because I think about the classes that we used to teach in the workshops we used to teach where people were saving the recall.

I'll talk about that. You know what it is in a minute, but we had so much fun and people were so animated. So saving the recall means finding a way to get your dog to return to you. So what does that way mean? It could mean. Patting your legs. It could be clapping your hands. Hey buddy, come on.

It could be, very animated. I say, find your inner, cartoon character Uhhuh. But we have seen some crazy things happen in class. People jumping up like doing jumping jacks to try to get their dog's attention. And it did know, it caused their dog to turn away from that distraction and return to them.

Yes, don't be afraid to find your inner cartoon character to help your dog return one way. That's really awesome. If you can get up off the ground, plop down on the ground, just plop on the ground and lay flat and your dog is going to go, what, and the heck just happened to my person. And they're gonna scurry over to you tell you it's happened every single time or squat down and dig in the grass.

Just pretend like you've found something in the grass and the dogs really curious, oh, what do you have? And they'll usually be right to you. So those are some, ways to save your recall. 

Corinne Gearhart- The Doodle Pro™: I love it. And while you're doing those things and you're doing your inner cartoon animal you're not yelling here, right?

Lisa Lyle Waggoner: Absolutely not. I might be squealing, but I'm not saying any cue. I'm not repeating my cue. I'm just being really silly and trying to get my dog's attention from whatever they're focused on. I've heard the term my dog loses focus. He doesn't lose focus.

He's gained focus on something else he's, which has caused him to be distracted. So I need to get his focus back to me. And boy, there are so many fun ways to do that with our voices and our animated way of moving our bodies.

Corinne Gearhart- The Doodle Pro™: My go-to's running away and chasing me can be pretty exciting if I've built those foundational steps of catch me if you can.

Lisa Lyle Waggoner: And I would imagine that you were running away is also now a cue itself. It is . Yeah, it is for me too. Yes, but can that's from the chase me game that I have in my book, if say running away is inherently takes advantage that dog's genetic desire to chase something you, right. 

Corinne Gearhart- The Doodle Pro™: It starts that way in the yard.

If I go inside. I ran in there and it became something fun and the fun continued inside. And now my just turning to walk inside has created a similar response. I don't have to look like a cartoon character every time I'm entering my home from the yard. I love that. Rule number seven is say the cue only once and never repeat it.

Lisa Lyle Waggoner: Correct. We want our dogs to learn that when we say the cue the first time that they will respond that first time repeating the cue over and over again, it causes the cue to lose value and has no relevance to your dog. It's I think back to when I was a child and we had an old fashioned hook up to the faucet dishwasher, not a built in dishwasher.

And. It would be time to unload the dishwasher. Lisa come unload the dishwasher and I'd continue doing whatever I was doing. Lisa, come unload the dishwasher. It didn't matter how many times she said that word. I was just staying engaged with whatever I was focused on. It wasn't until I heard my middle name that I would actually, oh that's the cue that matters.

Yeah. But yeah I just learned that was irrelevant. So yes, say the cue once and then. But when you say it you've, trained it already. You've had that reinforcement history previously. So that further on down the road, you won't have to worry about the fact that, oh my gosh, I shouldn't say it again.

Corinne Gearhart- The Doodle Pro™: And I teach my kids that every time they're giving a cue to one of the dogs that it's in a happy birthday voice, it should sound fun. Oh, I like that 

Lisa Lyle Waggoner: exciting. I should only be like birthday voice. That's so good. Yes. 

Corinne Gearhart- The Doodle Pro™: you can't say that mad either. So yeah, even if you're frustrated and you're trying to redirect their behavior, can't say that one mad and it gets their attention in an effective way.

Lisa Lyle Waggoner: I, would say that I also have in this, under this rule, say the cue only wants, never repeat the cue. That kind of ties in with the, find your inner loony tune character, your inner cartoon character. Because if my dog hesitates and goes, maybe not, I don't know. I'm really distracted.

Then I'm gonna do something else to get them to return to me. 

Corinne Gearhart- The Doodle Pro™: Yeah. Little kissy noises, clapping, and I love the digging and laying down. Those are excellent. Rule number eight, never punish your dog. If your dog doesn't come. When called, I think is one of the critical ones. 

Lisa Lyle Waggoner: We want the result of your dog returning to you to always be something of value to the dog. Something that they love. So even if your dog was digging up, tunnels of mole tunnels in your yard yeah.

And you call your dog and they don't come for a moment, but they finally do come to you. Find it in your heart to, to tell them what a good dog they are, how much you love them, you came back, make it happy, because if you don't then punishment by its nature is designed to help a be to drive a behavior down to decrease.

We don't want your recall to, to decrease so always reinforce your dog, even if it takes them a while to get back to you. And 

Corinne Gearhart- The Doodle Pro™: you do see that a lot that somebody could be angry about behavior. They didn't like that their dog was doing. Or even if a dog gets into something that you don't want them to have in their mouth, you'll see scolding after the dog does come to you.

And that really tarnishes that recall and the drop it as well. 

Lisa Lyle Waggoner: In my world and I know yours too. We're always adding to our dogs, the bank account, right? Yes. We're always adding. To that and building that bank account up and that scolding and that punishment for not coming when called are huge withdrawals.

Yes. And so you always wanna strive to add to your dog's bank account. 

Corinne Gearhart- The Doodle Pro™: I love that. So number nine, always give the dog a huge payoff. 

Lisa Lyle Waggoner: Yes. Find something your dog absolutely will do back flips over something that they love.

Oftentimes the stinker, the better I'd like soft treats over hard treats. So softer treats versus hard biscuit type treats. Make sure they love it. You should do that work ahead of time to know that they'll do back flips for it. And I like to reinforce for a length of time. In my book, I say 15 to 30 seconds.

That's a long time. If if you're actually timing it, but if I say 15 to 30 seconds, then maybe people will actually get five or seven seconds in. Yes. Draw out that reinforcement period and I think it was Leslie Nelson in reliable recall who talked about that, that fine dining experience.

The more time you spend in that moment, speaking kindly to your dog and reinforcing for 15 to 30 seconds, that's gonna strengthen their return to you. 

Corinne Gearhart- The Doodle Pro™: That's a huge deposit into that bank account. And it is so not our intuition. people picture a tiny biscuit or a tiny treat and then they move on.

Lisa Lyle Waggoner: And, even after you've trained recall, you're going to, you're going to continue to reinforce your dog at some level, whether it's food or a toy reinforcer because , if we stop reinforcing something, we're gonna lose the strength of that. 

Corinne Gearhart- The Doodle Pro™: Correct. I completely agree your next rule, number 10, touches on what you just said, maintain it after you train it. 

Lisa Lyle Waggoner: Any skill that we learn, if we don't practice it, we lose it.

So you can find moments in your everyday life to call your dog and reinforce them for it. It could be in the garden, it could be on a walk. Even if you're on a leash, you could call your dog when they're, starting to disengage from sniffing something and have them return to you reinforce it.

Yes. So find those little times throughout your day to maintain it. So the behavior stays strong. 

Corinne Gearhart- The Doodle Pro™: And as your dog gets older out of puppyhood, you'll often find a broader menu of reinforcement. As you get to know your dog, we have some that a toss of a ball is worth more than any of the stinky cheese, but it can take a while for that maturity and for you to hone in on what those dogs it can.

Lisa Lyle Waggoner: And let me go on and say with this number 10, maintain it. After you train it dogs and people, when they're learning something, have to move through the four stages of learning. You acquire the skill first, then you have to become fluent with it. Then you have to take that skill and generalize it to a lot of different locations before it's really reliable in a lot of in all of those places.

But then once it is reliable in all those places, you have to continue to reinforce it periodically to keep it strong. 

Corinne Gearhart- The Doodle Pro™: Thank you for walking us through that.

Your rule number 11 is play the hide and seek game with your dog. It's fun for you builds the desire in your dog to find you. And it's fun for both of you.

Lisa Lyle Waggoner: I've just started doing this with Keaton and it's so fun I think I've said before, he's new to her home. He's been here five weeks. He's 14 weeks old. our to see the joy in him when he finds me now is so much fun. In your home and do start inside your house first If you have another person in your home, you can have that person distract the dog.

If not, you could drop a few pieces of food and then tiptoe away and hide somewhere in the house. Give your dog a little time to see if they'll miss you and find start looking for you on their own, if they don't just make a little noise. So their ears will perk up and they'll notice that you're gone and start searching for you.

And when they find you throw a party be excited, temper yourself based on your dog's personality. I have a pretty exuberant personality and my dogs have learned to deal with that, but I have to be careful with client dogs and not get too exuberant and scare yours. 

Corinne Gearhart- The Doodle Pro™: The piddles? Yeah, I have the same.

Lisa Lyle Waggoner: So I have to learn to temper my own personality. But we throw a big party and we live in a small home. I don't have a lot of places to hide. So he's gonna learn pretty quickly where those places are, but it's, it just, it drives your dog's desire to find you and I do it outside.

I'll eventually do it outside with him. Of course, when we're walking about the pasture, I'll step behind a tree and I've already done that and just peak to see when will he notice that I'm not there and he's like, where does she go? I better go looking for her. And he'll make his way to 

Corinne Gearhart- The Doodle Pro™: me and puppies instinctually at that developmental stage want to be near you and your reinforcement of that.

Tell me how you described the analogy with cement again. Oh 

Lisa Lyle Waggoner: So, yes. So, engineers reinforce concrete with rebar with other, with metal pieces to make it stronger. And so yes, we reinforce our dog's behavior with food to make that behavior stronger. 

Corinne Gearhart- The Doodle Pro™: Yes. And as they developmentally could evolve and mature and be less like anxious, if mom's not right there, they've already had that check in with mom or dad or their puppy parent to know that wonderful things happen when I stay and check in.

Lisa Lyle Waggoner: Absolutely. And with puppies now, again, an older dog can learn all these skills easily too, when you implement them. But with puppies those before they hit that period where they're developmentally starting to, hit the point where they're going to explore the world and move out onto their own take advantage of that, following you to reinforce that.

So That behavior is cemented early in them. 

Corinne Gearhart- The Doodle Pro™: I love using the hide and seek game with kids. It's something that they already understand playing in childhood and a lot of times parents will get a puppy or add a dog to their family for their children's sake, in addition to their own, or sometimes instead of their own.

And one of the parents is the one doing the walks doing the feeding and the training. And the bond often goes to the adult and I love using the hide and seek game to help build that bond with the kids and let the dog know a party comes when you find them too.

Lisa Lyle Waggoner: And what, better than kids having fun and dogs having fun together?

and building a skill at the same time. And, a bond bond and respect for, each other as well. 

Corinne Gearhart- The Doodle Pro™: Yes. It's a two for one there. Your final rule I love. And it's, again, one that is counterintuitive to people. If they're thinking of training their dog to come rule, number 12, you have recall and release.

Lisa Lyle Waggoner: Absolutely. And so you have to have a safe environment to play this you, don't wanna release your dog to go do something else if it's not a safe environment, but when you call your dog to you, don't let the return to you always in the fun So when you're practicing, when they return to you release them to go play or go sniff, I did it today.

It wasn't a formal recall. It was really a check in Keaton came to me and I reinforced him for coming, making that decision of checking in with me. And then I said, go play. and he went back into the Creek and ROED in the Creek. It's so important. Because then that additional release is also reinforcing.

Corinne Gearhart- The Doodle Pro™: Yes. And it means that you're a conduit to more fun happening. And I love that. It really is counterintuitive when people are thinking about their dog coming. Thank you for outlining that. You're welcome. We hear from some of our students, treats don't work with my dog, cuz they're not food motivated.

What do you say when you're working with a student who has that impression when working with their dog? 

Lisa Lyle Waggoner: I would ask, a question first. Most of the time when a client tells me that when I ask the question about how they feed their dog's meals they're usually free feeding their dog.

Yes. So you know that constant buffet of food out all day causes food to lose value. so it's preferred and vetinarians will tell you this too, to feed your dog. One or two times a day, I feed my dogs twice. Keaton is eating three times a day because he's a puppy, baby. I Yes, But if, your dog won't work for food, that means one of two things, your dog doesn't find food valuable because you probably are free feeding or your dog may not be comfortable in a specific environment.

So if a dog won't eat they may be anxious or scared or overly aroused. Even overly aroused dogs who are comfortable still won't take food case in point went last night to the first training class with Keaton. Yes. He hasn't been around a lot of other dogs. What is the first dog that he saw last night?

Giant adult Doberman. He was like, oh my God, he was aroused. He wasn't scared. But he was like, oh, what is that? He was pulling to get to it. I had hot dogs, which are normally high value for him. He was like, was I broccoli? I ended up having to pick him up and take him into class. There was no way I was gonna get him, lure him away.

Yeah. so, yes, you do what you can in the moment. 

Corinne Gearhart- The Doodle Pro™: And that's them being over arousal. And a lot of times when people first start practicing, using treats with their dogs are in those puppy classes. When it is one of the first times they've seen a dog that does not look like their litter mates or their mom and it is a lot to take in. And that's usually not at a point where they're able to take them. So doing them where they're feeling comfortable. 

Lisa Lyle Waggoner: So yes, when a dog won't eat, you think about why look at your environment, first of all, are you free feeding? If you aren't, then maybe my dog's too aroused. Maybe my dog's fearful.

And in some way, shape or form, you may be able to tell that if dog body language, you should be able to understand which one of those behaviors your dog is feeling. And then maybe you just haven't found the right value reinforcer yet. Yes, in my situation, I did have something higher value, but it was all zipped up in my training bag last night.

So I didn't have quick access to that. And thankfully the instructor saw she was outside. She asked the other person, would you wait, create distance, please? Great. Let her get in with her puppy. 

Corinne Gearhart- The Doodle Pro™: perfect. And that's exactly right with the creating the distance and giving your dog that space to be able to come back down under threshold and be able to reach that training part of their brain.

Lisa Lyle Waggoner: Yeah. And so we might need that. That might be an example of, okay, we've hit a training speed bump. We progress too soon. I'm in an environment that's overwhelming for my dog. Yes. You can't learn in this environment. That's fine. Back up, get success at the earlier step and then move in that more distracting environment.

Corinne Gearhart- The Doodle Pro™: Excellent. So if you want to learn more about Lisa's steps to create a rocket recall, I highly recommend that you buy her book, the rocket recall, and you can find it on Amazon, Dog Wise, major book retailers. And I wanna congratulate you. On making it on the top of the charts on Amazon for pet training books, it deserves to be there.

I devoured it. And thank you. I highly recommend it. 

Lisa Lyle Waggoner: I just really appreciate it. I'm so happy that I've had such positive reviews on it because it, it is something I'm passionate about. And I'm passionate about teaching it in the very humane force, free and fear free way.

Yes. That causes your dog to have that desire to wanna return to you when you call. 

Corinne Gearhart- The Doodle Pro™: Thank you. And for our listeners who would love to dig right in today, you have a free gift for them. I'll include the link in the show notes, but can you tell them a little bit more about it. 

Lisa Lyle Waggoner: I can, it's my quick reference guide to rocket recall.

So you'll get the 12 rules of rocket recall, which we've just talked through. Yes. And I think it's a wonderful way. If you just glance at those once every day, keep them nearby, just skim them. You will eventually really learn them and you'll have kind of the, shell of things are gonna help you support your dog through training even before you read my book.

But of course, I do want you to read the book, those training and behavior concepts that we talked about earlier are, so important, helping you understand why you're doing things and how you can solve problems. When a trainer isn't with you, or when you hit those little speed bumps, I talk about what a lot of the speed bumps can be and why they happen.

And you'll learn how to climb right over those towards success. And we provide a wide range of dog training services, all virtual. So whether it's recall or separation anxiety, which is our specialty, we have four certified separation, anxiety trainers working under our Cold Nose College umbrella. We're just happy we can work with clients no matter where they are these days.

Corinne Gearhart- The Doodle Pro™: Wonderful. And if somebody wanted to reach out to you, I know that there's a long waiting list for a lot of certified separation anxiety trainers. And if you guys have any openings, how could someone reach out to you to work together virtually 

Lisa Lyle Waggoner: You can find us coldnosecollege.com. You would click on the separation anxiety page and follow the prompts there to schedule an initial consult and video assessment.

And we have under the pet parent section there's a dropdown menu of by service. Surviving the puppy period we're doing that right now, Brad and I are because we have a puppy on our home, or maybe it's mind your manners for dogs, or maybe it's anxiety or fear or aggression.

You can select that service and be led to the trainers who provide that support book through our system. And you'll be set up for an initial 

Corinne Gearhart- The Doodle Pro™: consult. 

Thank you, Lisa and I so appreciate your staying on afterwards with our membership, the Doodle Pro Society where you're going to teach them the first game from your book to create a great foundation for recall.

Lisa Lyle Waggoner: You're just so lovely. Thanks so much. Oh, 

Corinne Gearhart- The Doodle Pro™: share your passion. And I love the methods that you teach. Thank you 

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The Doodle Pro®, Corinne Gearhart

Host
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Lisa Lyle Waggoner

Guest