Faith in Action—Infertility, June 29, 2026

Tune into Faith in Action at 9 a.m., Monday, June 29, on Channel 88.1 FM, Siouxland Catholic Radio. Host Joanne Fox discusses infertility.

This program replays at 7 p.m. Saturday, July 4.

Faith in Action is brought to you by Mary's Choice, a Sioux City Pregnancy Resource Center. Previous Faith in Action programs can be found at siouxlandcatholicradio.com, on YouTube, and on several other podcasting platforms. Programming is subject to change.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Hello listeners of Cool Land Catholic Radio Channel 88.1 FM, KFHC Pongasy City, and K-O-I-A-Stormlake. Thank you so much for tuning in to this show, Faith in Action. I'm your host, Joanne Fox. And maybe it's 9 a.m. on a Monday, or maybe it's 7 p.m. on a Saturday, or maybe you went to our website at ZoandcatholicRadio.com, clicked on Faith in Action and listened at your convenience. We are also on Spotify and a number of other podcasting platforms. That's all due to the generosity of Mary's Choice at a Two City Pregnancy Resource Center, which is the exclusive underwriter for this show. So, listeners, if you have an opportunity to grab a piece of paper, a pen or a pencil, I have some information that this might be of interest to you. So this is an event that will take place Wednesday, July 15th. It goes from 6 to 7:30. It is at All Saints Parish at St. Joseph's Church in Lamar, Iowa. And it is a faithfully feeling infertility gathering. And for anybody who has struggled with infertility issues, this might be right up your alley. So I will reiterate the time date place again. But another key is there is a pre-registration and it is there's a $25 chart because there's stuff that goes along with the event. And that is July 8th. So a lot of dates to write down, but again, I will say them several times during the run of the program. So if you're running around the house, can't find the pen and piece of paper like me, or maybe you put it in your phone, uh, which that's even worse for me. But I will say again when this event will be taking place. And I thought in the um Lamar's bulletin quite some time ago. And I reached out to my guest, uh, Sarah Westhoff, and I said, Sarah, I would really like the listeners to learn more about this. And bless her heart, uh, I would say maybe several weeks ago, I got the email from her and said, We are doing an event Wednesday, July 15th, and I thought, yay, because we can now promote it. And so that's what we're doing. So again, faithfully healing infertility, and that's going to be um the focus of this event. So I want to welcome to my program Sarah Westtop. She's on the phone with me. Sarah, thank you so much for taking time out of your busy schedule to chat with me and let our listeners know a little bit more about this. Yes, of course. Well, Sarah, why don't you tell the listeners a little bit about yourself, where you grew up, where you went to school, anything.

SPEAKER_02 3:02

Um, so I have spent most of my life in LaMars. Um, I went to Galen for school and I graduated in 2010. Um, my husband is also from Lamar's, and so he went to Lamar's community though. So um we met in high school and um we dated for um about four years in college, and then um as soon as we um graduated, we got married, and um yeah, we had struggles with infertility, and so it's um been something that's really on my heart and that I'm passionate about.

SPEAKER_00 3:37

Okay, then how did you learn about uh Guiding Star in um Orange City? Because that's kind of the the the the nonprofit agency that uh provides this kind of the specialty uh it's very specialized, faith-based fertility support, I would say. Uh and I can't imagine, you know, the challenges uh uh with a couple that uh is faith-filled uh trying to navigate uh the medical and emotional challenges of of unfertility and at the same time aligning with Catholic moral teachings, and there's so much associated with it. So maybe tell the listeners how you found out about Guiding Star.

SPEAKER_02 4:22

Yeah, so I um did the training the for Creighton model when we were engaged um and doing that marriage prep time. Um and I actually went through um Dr. Ellison Schoenfelder, she's the one that taught me, and so then um after that I we didn't have a lot of money. We were Yeah, I understand. I kind of dropped the ball a little bit on the um keeping doing that and I just did it on my own, but eventually I did um since I was having issues, I I did contact somebody and I I went to um a different center again, Ashwood um Care Fertility Center, and I also do a lot with um like creating models and different models for um tracking your cycle. Um but kind of through that searching for another provider. I came across Guiding Star as another one, and then I also have a friend who um is just very passionate about pro-life um and supporting babies and women and pregnancies, and she got really involved with Guiding Star, and that kind of led me closer to Guiding Star through that.

SPEAKER_00 5:41

So Okay. So what kinds of things did they provide you with direction or support as you kind of faced some infertility challenges? What did they provide for you?

SPEAKER_02 5:56

Um, they really were able to kind of give me some direction on um what providers that I could go to for like medical assistance, um, just because unfortunately the medical system just isn't fully equipped to serve women yet. I know that we are like really striving to get there. Yeah, I would agree with you. But it just really seems like um we have a long way to go in serving women um medically. And so um they were able to direct me to somebody who would be able to give me real answers and answers that would be aligned with the Catholic faith instead of just the automatic, like, here, have some birth control, that'll take care of it.

SPEAKER_00 6:44

Right.

SPEAKER_02 6:45

No, actually it doesn't.

SPEAKER_00 6:47

No, it doesn't. So you are kind of um you'll be uh on site for this event on July 15th, uh, maybe helping facilitate, maybe answering questions, providing support. Why don't you tell the listeners a little bit about what your role will be?

SPEAKER_02 7:06

Yeah, um, I would love to share my story with um the people that are there, um, and maybe just give them some hope and uh hopefully they will also be able to conceive at some point because we do have four children now. We've been very blessed. Um and just sharing my story so that hopefully they don't go through the same um journey that we had had to go through that hopefully their journey can be a little bit shorter and more direct than ours was. Um and then even yeah, answering questions, helping again to direct them to providers that will be able to help them and give them the answers that they need instead of, like I said, kind of winding their way around until they do get the real answers. Just trying to give them a direct line to the real answers.

SPEAKER_00 8:00

And I think you hit the nail on the head when you mention that the medical community really is not supportive of women who are facing some infertility issues. You know, they uh they kind of want to just put a band-aid on it or say try this or maybe things that um are not in line with our Catholic faith, and that's unfortunate. Um I think a lot of our listeners are aware of the John Paul II Institute in Omaha that has done a lot with um our fertility issues and aligning them with our Catholic moral teachings. Uh but uh Guiding Star up there in Orange City is a little closer to those of us in in Northwest Iowa who might be, you know, struggling. And I I don't know how personal you want to get, but maybe you could tell the listeners a little bit about your journey and maybe what was going on.

SPEAKER_02 8:54

Yeah, I'd love to. Um I I enjoy sharing my story because I feel like it helps other people and absolutely. So um we I actually went to graduate school for two years after um graduating from undergrad. I'm a speech language pathologist, so you need a master's degree for that. And so um during those first two years of our marriage, we weren't trying to conceive because of me being in graduate school. Um, but as soon as I got a job, we were we were ready to go. And so um after six months, I knew from my training with the great model that after six months there's there's a problem. And so I made an appointment with just a gynecologist, just a regular gynecologist, and um she told me, nope, you need to try for a year. And so me just trusting my doctor was like, okay, I guess I'll try for a year. Um, and so then in the meantime, we brought it up to our parents and were just like, hey, just we're going through this right now and just wanted to let you know. And so my mom told me, Well, I had endometriosis, maybe you have it too. Oh, thanks, Mom. Yeah, that would have been some good information to have. Yeah. Oh, we love her.

SPEAKER_00 10:19

We love her. It's mom.

SPEAKER_02 10:21

Yep. Yep. So I uh went back then to the I went to the same gynecologist again. And so she was like, Yep, let's do surgery. Let's it sounds like you probably do have endometriosis too. And so um what she did was called fulguration of the endometriosis, and it they burn off the endometriosis. And I found out later that this is not an effective way to remove endometriosis.

SPEAKER_00 10:53

But I have heard of it, so I I did not know it was not effective. So when I've learned something new. Okay. Okay, so now that happens to you.

SPEAKER_02 11:04

Yep, yep. So, and yeah, a lot of doctors are still doing that, even though it's not very effective. Um and yeah, so I mean, this was back in 2017, it would have been, and so I went back to her and I said, I haven't noticed any difference. I I feel the same, and she was like, just give it time. Like, it we did the surgery, we took care of it, just give it time. I was just I just knew in my heart that things were not right, and so I did eventually go to St. Paul the Sixth Institute in Omaha.

SPEAKER_00 11:45

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 11:46

And um they I had Dr. Thomas Hilders.

SPEAKER_00 11:54

Oh, yes, there's a n I I can tell you right now, Sarah, that a lot of our listeners are nodding. Thomas Hilders is um he is a legend in natural family planning.

SPEAKER_02 12:06

Yep, yep, yep. He and he uh was amazing to work with too. So um he uh did uh laparoscopy and he was going to remove the endometriosis if it was mild enough, but it I don't think I had like the most severe case of endometriosis, but it was severe enough that he wanted to go in with a robotic robot and do robotic surgery for it. So um that was like January of 2018 that he did uh um laparoscopy, and I asked him, did it look like there was anything done in the previous surgery, or like what did you see? And he was like, it doesn't look like they did anything.

SPEAKER_00 12:51

Oh dear.

SPEAKER_02 12:52

Yeah, yeah. So it was you know disappointing that I had that surgery done and spent all that money and surgery. There's no effective. But on the other hand, I also was very thankful that there wasn't like any damage that was done too, because he also said that there um are doctors who will remove the endometriosis um and then let it heal on its own, which causes scarring, and then the scarring can cause issues too. Um so I'm I'm very thankful that I didn't have any issues because I just didn't want to go to St. Paul's Six Institute right away. Um I don't want to drive two hours.

SPEAKER_00 13:38

Yeah, that's the hook right there. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:41

Right. But I'm I'm so blessed though, because so many other they had get people from all around the nation and who have to actually fly into Omaha or even around the world, I think they get some patients from around the world too. So I'm actually very blessed to only have a two-hour drive.

SPEAKER_00 13:57

Yep, that's the truth. So then after um Dr. Hilders did the lapropsky or however that's pronounced, then then what?

SPEAKER_02 14:08

So I uh had like a two or three months, I think, before I had the robotic scri surgery done then. Okay. Um and so then he uh removed all the endometriosis and then he repaired the tissue as well. Wow. Um so then after that he um had me do COMID and HCG. And three months later we conceived.

SPEAKER_00 14:36

So Yay! And so baby number one, when did baby number one come? May of twenty nineteen. Okay. And then baby number two? April twenty twenty one. Okay. Baby number three? Uh May 2023. Okay. Baby number four. Uh January 2026. Oh my gosh. Yeah. New baby. And what have you got here? All boys, all girls, or a mix? Uh two boys and two girls. Oh god, how wonderful. You know, and uh Sarah, now you kind of have the um, I guess, the experience of looking back. And uh I can't imagine the emotional roller coaster this must have been because uh you look around and uh your f loved ones or perhaps your friends uh are not having any trouble and they've got all this wonderful advice to give you, like your doctor said, give it a year. And they have other wonderful advice that is misguided. But maybe you could share with the listeners a little bit about the emotional roller coaster that it puts a woman, and maybe you can even talk about your husband as well, because it isn't just you that's on it, you know, and and how that how did you work through it?

SPEAKER_02 16:04

Yeah, it was very difficult. I know there are some couples who struggle with this much longer than a year that you know, a year and a half that we had um before like finding answers and um it just the month to month. It's like you have that hope of like, oh, it'll be this month, and then just the crushing Yeah, crushing disappointment.

SPEAKER_00 16:31

You that is perfect. That is perfect, the crushing disappointment of oh it didn't no baby this month. And then I I and uh you know, our listeners know I have f four boys, uh, they're all adults now. Um but there was a lot of prayer in you know, make you know, and hoping for a healthy pregnancy. But I could really see, you know, for you and your husband, how you you could really fall into this come on God, what uh what are we doing here? You know, we're praying, we're going to church, we're you know, um the the po the the the folks are offering up masses for us, you know, our friends are are supportive of us. But the the spiritual aspect of this, that I would think might have been a a challenge as well. Maybe you could address that a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 17:30

Yeah. Um, I think we grew just a lot in our spiritual life. Um like you said, we were going to mass on weekends and um I think there was just a real um deepening of our relationship with God through that time. Um we started reading the Bible together, we started having like a litany of saints that we would pray together every night, um, just things like that. Um and it it just it prompted us to pray more and to grow more in our spiritual life. Um yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:11

Yeah, that is great. Cause again, that's where we get our strength. I truly believe this is where we get our strength, is when we, you know, let go let God, honestly. Yeah, because it it's not in our hands. It truly isn't. Although you did have the good resource of Dr. Thomas Hilger, so that helps. So, listeners, if you're just tuning in right now, I want to remind you the show is faith in action. So I'm your host, Joanne Fox. Uh and uh if you had the time now to run and get the piece of paper and the pencil or the pen or the phone. This is a faithfully feeling infertility gathering. It takes place Wednesday, July 15th. It starts at 6 30, goes to about 7 30. It is at All Saints Parish at St. Joseph Church of the Parish. And that's in Lamar, Iowa. And uh Guiding Star, which is um a nonprofit uh organization agency that really tries to build up a culture of faith. They do many things. You can Google them and see the many things they do. Um and they are kind of in charge or overseeing this. And what the oh, this is another important thing, listeners. So there is a fee to pre-register. It's $25. And that is due July 8th. Now, we all know, just like anything, that if circumstances change and suddenly it's July 10th and you haven't registered, my guess is they'll probably still accept you. But the reason they need a pre-registration is they're gonna have materials and they want to make sure that there's enough for everybody. And you know, this is no different than when you're going to a wedding and they want you to RSVP, they want to make sure there's enough food that the caterers are providing for everybody. So that's just being, I think, thoughtful and considerate of the organization that's trying to put this on. And again, I will go back and at the end of the show, I will again reiterate all of this. So if you're just tuning in, um I'm on the phone with uh Sarah Westhoff, and she is gonna be one of the facilitators, and she is going to talk about uh uh her experience with infertility. Okay and so uh so I'm uh I say I was going to come because I I'm curious and I'm having some challenges and I I'm just at my wit's end. I don't know what else to do now. What is gonna take place during this event that you know you can assure reassure me that it's it's all gonna be great?

SPEAKER_02 20:52

Yeah. So it goes through um just how a women's body works and some issues that can happen that might prevent you from conceiving. Um she touches on this is uh case the main presenter for the class, and she also touches on some things that can happen with men and just some things how we address those issues. So issues that can happen and that prevent you from conceiving, and then some answers to those issues. Um but again you would need to most likely go see a doctor for um those treatments, but at least you have some answers.

SPEAKER_00 21:43

So uh you had mentioned earlier, and now I I didn't jot it down, there is going to be a doctor on site, Dr. Allison? Not this time. Not this time, okay.

SPEAKER_02 21:56

She does follow um St. Paul the Sixth. Institute protocol for um managing like hormones and um things like that and pregnancy and all of that. Um what is her name again?

SPEAKER_00 22:14

I I caught Alison, but I didn't write down her last name.

SPEAKER_02 22:17

Yep. Dr. Alison Schoenfelder.

SPEAKER_00 22:20

Oh, very, very German Schoenfelder.

SPEAKER_02 22:24

Okay. She's in Orange City and she's a member of our parish at All Saints, and um, so she is a good resource to have, but she will not be at this class.

SPEAKER_00 22:37

And that's okay. So basically talking about uh, you know, for young women who maybe have never heard of cycle tracking, um, and maybe, you know, a better understanding of a reproductive issue. But I think one of the most powerful things that might take place is peer support, is that you look around because you go into this thinking, oh my gosh, all my friends are having babies, my my loved ones are having babies, I'm not having a baby. And here you're surrounded by women and men probably, because this really is not just a women thing, is it, uh, Sarah? Right. This this class will be f for couples. Okay. Um But would isn't that so powerful, you know, to feel that you're not alone, that there are other individuals that maybe are struggling uh physically, emotionally, spiritually, all of those things. I think that's got to be powerful. Because this is not the first time you've done the event. You know, last time when we chatted, um, we were just out of time to do an interview. And so this is not the first time this event is taking place at uh St. Joseph Church in Lamar's. Right. So I would imagine the peer support of w of other people has got to be powerful.

SPEAKER_02 24:01

Yes, absolutely. It's definitely you feel very alone when you're going through the process, even though you have your spouse with you and you just feel like, oh, there's no one else who is going through this. Everyone else, like you said, is having babies and different weeks and it's definitely nice to have other people going through the same thing and who understand.

SPEAKER_00 24:25

Yeah, cu yeah, like I said, you know, the emotional, uh big emotional, but the spiritual aspects too of, you know, God, why are m why me? You know, what what have I done that I can't, you know, conceive and everybody else seems to, and so I I like the fact that, you know, you talked about um, you know, starting to maybe increase your prayer life with your husband and take it to a new level, and you got to, I really think so. And the and we haven't even talked about this, and I don't know how much we want to get into it. But you had mentioned earlier, you know, about going in and um the endometriosis and um the gynecologist maybe didn't quite address it as it should have been addressed. But one of the things, of course, now that we see a lot of, because it seems to be trending, is individuals who are doing IVF, which is not um okay by the Catholic Church, and yet we see it quite a bit. And so is that something that is also discussed, is perhaps ways that are not in line with Catholic teaching.

SPEAKER_02 25:40

Um, I am not sure that we'll go into that much in the class, but I think that is an important topic to discuss because yeah, like you said, it is very common that people will turn to that, and I think even I've I've heard from people that medically like medical teachers push for that too. Um because again just for women's healthcare systems they don't actually solve the problems, they're just like oh here, let's just put the baby in and avoid the things that are going on in and then even then some I from what I've read IVF has a pretty low um rate of success, so um, which is also disappointing.

SPEAKER_00 26:30

Yes, equ yeah. Almost as disappointing as going through another month of not conceiving is uh having embryos plant implanted into you and for whatever reason you miscarry or whatever, uh that's got to be I think even worse. And of course, again, listeners pretty much know this n not um in line with Catholic teaching at all, Catholic moral teaching at all. And yet like you said, Sarah, a lot of physicians push it. Um it's it's a trendy thing right now, but it it is not all that and uh and a bag of chips for a lot of couples. So that's why I think this is so important to bring to the attention of the listeners and maybe listener, maybe you are not um struggling with uh infertility. You might not be, but you might have a loved one uh who is, be it, you know, your uh daughter, your granddaughter, your sister, your aunt, you know, your niece, um, maybe a very good friend. And so I think this approach to, you know, faith-based fertility support is so key to those of us, you know, who are are Catholic and it helps couples navigate the medical challenges. And you alluded to that as well, um, Sarah. Um and one of the things we haven't even touched on is um the the high cost of some of these other things. Uh because there is no free lunch in any of this. And so there are costs involved, especially, you know, if you're pursuing stuff that isn't in line with Catholic moral teachings. So it's it's very, very costly um to do some of these things. And I understand, you know, some people i that's not an issue, but boy, for a lot of us middle class folks, that would be an issue.

SPEAKER_02 28:38

Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_00 28:40

So again, we're talking a lot about, you know, uh this is a real opportunity for individuals who are struggling um with infertility, uh because there's so much associated with that, you know, the physical part, the emotional part, the spiritual part. And so here we've got an opportunity for real-world advice. I mean, these are women in the trenches who have experienced it or work with other individuals who are experiencing it, um, you know, just based on what I know from younger women who have approached this. And there's natural hormones that you can take that will help. There's cycle tracking. Sarah, you mentioned the Creighton method, that's you know, right up there at the top. And then the ability to to really pinpoint what the reproductive issues are, you know, what's going on instead of guessing. And I think that's I don't think women advocate for their themselves as much as they should when they go and see their gynecologist. And maybe maybe you would agree with that.

SPEAKER_02 29:56

Yeah, I think a lot of times we just trust what our doctor tells us and tell we know differently or better. And um, you know, because they have that education behind them, and um yeah, so that can definitely be challenging to have to push back a little bit and say, like, this is not the answer.

SPEAKER_00 30:24

It is, because uh you're absolutely right. They have the education, they have the background, and they can be intimidating, you know, because we don't, you know, we don't come out of medical backgrounds, we don't know everything. Even if we Google some of this stuff and you know, have like seven million hits on women's health care, that still doesn't make us an expert. And so then you kind of defer to the expert, which is your health care provider, and sometimes um, you know, they they don't understand, especially for us Catholics, that marriage is a sacrament and we get grace from it. And the church, you know, is very supportive of marriage, you know, institution by Christ that gives us grace. And yeah, and a lot of doctors don't view it that way. And I guess that's a different spin for us as Catholics, and probably, you know, you might um go along with that that insight as well, Sarah.

SPEAKER_02 31:26

Yeah, and I think you know, sometimes too, just finding the right medical provider to um who is going to follow the Catholic faith and who does look to like St. Paul places like St. Paul the Sixth Institute for answers instead of um just the general secular um medical community. Um in that way they have those real answers.

SPEAKER_00 31:56

So looking back on all of this, and you know, now you've gotten some workshops under your belt, what would you say is the best part of being associated with doing something like this for others?

SPEAKER_02 32:12

I think being able to uh put them on the right path to getting answers. Um kind of was a little weaving around of trying to find the right answers and I'd like to save save them that pain and as much pain as possible and just be able to go directly to the answers.

SPEAKER_00 32:43

Sure. So, listeners, um, I would hope by now that you found a pen and a piece of paper or a pencil or your phone. And so once more, faithfully healing infertility. And this is in Northwest Iowa, and it is Wednesday, July 15th, it goes from 6 to 7:30 at All Saints Parish, St. Joseph Church in Lamar's, Iowa. And the program's gonna focus, it's kind of a workshop, um, on real-world advice on natural hormone healing, cycle tracking, so you can pinpoint maybe some reproductive issues, peer support. And again, peer support that respects the dignity of marriage. That's so important. So pre-registration needs to be done by July 8th, and there is a $25 charge. So I'm gonna ask Sarah, because she mentioned there are pamphlets that um have more information about this, and she's gonna send me one and I'll put it on our website so that you can see there's a QR code. And for those younger people who are much better with their phone than I am, you just point your phone at the QR code and up it comes and then you register. But if you are technologically challenged as I am, Sarah, what would be the best way to maybe touch base with you or maybe guiding star? Uh, what would you suggest?

SPEAKER_02 34:13

Yeah, um, either guiding star or myself, you can contact me. I have my phone number and email both listed on the flyer that I'll send to you. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 34:25

Um and I guess you could Google Guiding Star just like anybody. And there's a contact information on Guiding Star, and that's in Orange City. Um, and then, you know, there's a phone number, there's email there too, and there's their website that really explains all the other wonderful things they do. So it I think that's everything. Uh Sarah, am I missing anything? Is there anything else you would like to add? No, I don't think so. Okay, we just hope that this um program resonates with people, either men or women, who say to themselves, we just got we need some faith based fertility support to help us uh just navigate the medical and emotional challenges of infertility, but at the same time aligning with Catholic Catholic moral teachings, because as we've said over and over in this program, there's physical, there's emotional, and there's spiritual healing with this program, and that's what we need. You know, we need peer support and people who are um maybe in the same boat we are, so we don't feel like we're so alone, even though maybe our prayer life is pretty good, uh, sometimes sitting across from somebody who says, I get it. I get where you're at. So, Sarah, thank you so much for sharing your story with the listeners and um and helping me to promote this uh Faithfully Healing Infertility workshop that's coming up um on July 15th. Really appreciate it. So again, God bless you, Sarah, for taking the time out of your schedule to chat with me. Yeah, thank you for having me. You bet. So, listeners, that brings uh to a conclusion, another edition of Faith in Ash Action. We are so lucky here at Sioux Land Catholic Radio. We have so many wonderful local programs. Um, as I said at the top of the show, my program airs Monday at 9 a.m., replay Saturday at 7 p.m. Every day we have the Divine Mercy Chaplet uh at 3 p.m. Uh Bishop John Keener of the Diocese of Sioux City um is the person that introduces that. We have Mass every Sunday at 9 a.m. from modern day parish here in Sioux City. Life Plan uh comes out of Omaha. It's mostly based for young people, it's very good. Sundays at 8 p.m. Catholic Ministry Professionals with John and Ty every Tuesday at 4 p.m. Draw Near with Fred and Cara Wednesdays at 4 p.m. And Father Knows Best with Father Mark Stoll airs Wednesdays at 9 p.m. And of course we also have terrific national and international programming from EWTN. So that brings to a conclusion another edition of Faith in Action. I want to remind you, previous Faith in Action shows and all of those I just mentioned, they can be found at Siouxland Catholic Radio.com. All you do is go to our website and you click on the the icon or the logo and it will take you and show you the episodes. My show is also on Spotify and a number of other podcasting platforms. That's all due to the generosity of Mary's Choice. A number or um uh an exclusive underwriter, blah blah. An exclusive underwriter for my show. So, on behalf of myself, I'm Joanne Fox. I'm the host of this program, and my executive producer, Ann Reed, I want to remind you that a faithful reaction is good, but faith in action, it's so much better. Thanks for listening and God bless.