Ep. 112 Dare to Thrive: Healing From Generational Trauma and Child Loss 🕊️

In this episode, enjoy this deeply moving (and sometimes humorous) conversation with my guest, Dr. Greg Linkowski, diagnostic radiologist (retired), spiritual mentor, author and bereaved dad since 2002. From a childhood fuelled by chaos, his dad's addiction, emotional upheaval and witnessing his father’s darkest struggles, to the devastating loss of his young son years later, Greg shares his story of resilience and courage with unabashed honesty and vulnerability to offer hope and guidance to anyone walking a similar path.

In his new book, “Dare to Thrive”, Greg states that while pain is inevitable, it does not have to define who we are. Through faith, courage and hope, we can heal our deepest wounds and transform our lives.

Key Insights From Our Conversation:

• A Life Shaped by Early Trauma
• The Generational Impact of Trauma 
• Faith as a Foundation for Healing
• Parenting a Seriously Ill Child
• The Power of Community and Support
• Finding Meaning After Loss 

This is a heartfelt conversation to help anyone navigating trauma, loss and other struggles. 

#DareToThrive #GregLinkowski #ChildLossSupport #BereavedParents #GriefJourney #HealingAfterLoss #TraumaHealing #GenerationalTrauma 

Connect with Greg:
Instagram: @thegreglinkowski_m.d
Facebook: Greg Linkowski M.D.
Email: linkowskigreg@gmail.com
Book: Dare to Thrive

Joni and Friends Christian Ministry:
https://joniandfriends.org/

Vonne’s Website (books/resources):
www.vonnesolis.com

Subscribe to the podcast! Share your favourite episodes! Connect with Vonne on LinkedIn and Facebook.

Chapters

• 0:00 Welcome.
• 0:07 Introduction to Greg and his story.
• 6:01 Greg's Childhood Dysfunction and Family Background.
• 17:12 Greg's Career Path and Family Life.
• 28:27 David's Illness and Family's Challenges.
• 36:45 Greg's Personal Growth and Faith.
• 49:16 Support and Joni and Friends Disability Ministry.
• 1:07:07 Closing.
• 1:07:26 Final Thoughts.

Transcript

Vonne Solis  0:00  
This is the Grief Talk podcast with Vonne Solis helping you heal after loss and life's hardest hits.

My guest today is Dr. Greg Linkowski, a retired diagnostic radiologist with over 20 years of experience serving patients. Since retiring in 2014, Greg has been exploring life coaching and recently published his first book, "Dare to Thrive", a project 30 years in the making. "Dare to Thrive" shares Greg's journey as a trauma survivor and bereaved dad since 2002 offering reflections on healing, lessons learned and spiritual growth. Through his writing and coaching, he aims to encourage others on their own paths to recovery, and remind them they are not alone in their journey.

Welcome Greg to my podcast. We've been communicating for a little while, and finally, we got together on this show. And I'm so excited to have you here and have you share your wisdom from everything you've learned from a whole bunch of stuff that's happened in your life. So pop in say hi to my audience, and then we're going to get right to the questions.

Greg Linkowski  1:06  
Hello audience and Vonne, may I just say thank you so much for having me on your podcast entitled Grief Talk. I, I certainly feel like I've had my share of grief in in life, and the question arises, or arose for me at well, a few years ago. I had this, I think it was inspiration from God that I was reviewing my life and some of the experiences I had, which I think are rather novel, and God, what? What will I do? I mean, how how do I want my last and best quarter to go? And the answer came back, it's important for me to share my story.

Vonne Solis  2:22  
Okay.

Greg Linkowski  2:23  
Simply for the hope that some of our experiences, some of my personal experiences, would perhaps be of help to those who are going through tough times. Painful experiences. Perhaps feeling overwhelmed. And I'm just here to say, no matter what you're going through, there is hope out there and and how does one get that? How does one wind up coming out of misery? And that's a, that's a, I think a very individualized question.

Vonne Solis  3:11  
I think it's really, I think it's really individualized, Greg, but I also wanted to say partly, light heartedly, those of us who are retired and offer work to others. Service work to others as part of our purpose and passion. You know, this is a this is very tiring and very exhausting, and we keep going. So, you know, major kudos to you for coming out at you know, you're in your retirement going, I really feel it's not done. I want this last quarter to sort of be a help and I've been at this for quite a while. Not sure when I'm going to wind it all down. And so how we offer that to you and when we can offer it to you, audience, I think is a gift to all of us, because we learn as we teach. And I'm sure, Greg, you would agree with that.

So I'm very, very excited to have you here. I'm very excited for you that you found a purpose, a calling, in your last quarter. You have a jam-packed life. I read your book, Dare to "Dare to Thrive, folks. Great book, and there will be a link to Greg's website and all his socials for you to connect with him where he is on Facebook, Instagram. But before we do all that, Greg, let's get started. Because what I just wanted to sort of remind the audience, beyond the introduction I gave, is that you did come from dysfunction in your childhood. You are a trauma survivor. You are a bereaved dad since 2002. So you've got a lot going on there.

We're very similar in that way. I came from major childhood dysfunction. Probably was traumatized by it. Didn't recognize the signs until my daughter passed away from suicide in in 2005, so 20 years ago, and I really wasn't diagnosed for 10 years after her suicide that I live with PTSD. So I think it's a really missing key piece, if we can touch a little bit on that. You are a retired diagnostic radiologist so you have a medical background. You're going to be able to share some things, perhaps that other folks that haven't come from the science field and medical field specifically can share. But regardless where you want to start and where your knowledge is coming from let's turn to my first question and ask you to share a little bit about what your childhood dysfunction was. I know you write about this in your book but for the audience that hasn't quite got your book yet, the parts of it that really impacted you. And along with that, we want to sort of move into the role that that I would, I would say trauma and experiences in childhood. That we grow up and kind of brush to the side and want to forget about it, but they're never really gone. How that does shape our adult identity.

Greg Linkowski  5:58  
Oh, god.

Vonne Solis  5:59  
Yeah okay.

Greg Linkowski  6:01  
I have my story is, I don't know. To me, I think it's, it's one of a kind, but it is, I will look right into the camera and

Vonne Solis  6:14  
Sure.

Greg Linkowski  6:14  
this is my truth. And this is how, how I how I managed to come out of the family unit. Now, I have to say I'm the second of four children. I was born in 1954.

Vonne Solis  6:39  
Yeah.

Greg Linkowski  6:39  
So I grew up just north of the New York City in a town called Yonkers. And as a child, I thought our family was just like everybody else. I mean, there were problems. There was some bickering, and there was sibling rivalry, for which I'm the oldest, and I have two younger brothers. I was the one who would take both of them on wrestling and doing all the all the crazy stuff that kids do. I am blessed with an older sister as well. Turns out my sister got very ill when I was very young. I was probably, I want to say maybe, maybe around four or five years old. And bless her heart, she almost passed away. Thank God she didn't. But it seemed as though, in some way, I sort of became as if I was the oldest child in our family. And so I took on the role of, quote, perhaps a healthy one who excelled in school. Who was a really good boy, and well, as it turns out, that was my way of gaining attention and gaining what bit of conditional love there was to go around.

I have to mention a little bit of the story of what I know to be true about the life trajectory of both of my parents. My dad, who was born in 1922 turns out, he, along with his brothers, all signed up to serve our country in World War Two. And as it turns out, dad was assigned to be in the Navy, and he was on an LST, which is called the landing ships and tanks. He, along with the with the people on his boat, were there at D Day in Normandy, at Omaha Beach, and witnessed all well, witnessed through his own eyes the carnage that was there. I mean, it was evident all over the place, on the beach, in the water. The water was blood red, and World War Two ended. All the all the people, the men and women came home. I am certain dad had a terrible case of Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder, aka PTSD. Totally undiagnosed and totally untreated. It wasn't even fashionable back in the 40s, and early 50s, which was referred to as shell shock or combat fatigue syndrome.

So anyways, these folks, these precious people, were matriculated back into society and just and given a hero's welcome, yes. But then just went about their lives as if nothing had happened.

Vonne Solis  10:31  
Yep.

Greg Linkowski  10:32  
Well, turns out life became more complicated as as we got a little older as children and dad, unfortunately resorted to the generational curse of alcohol abuse.

Vonne Solis  10:51  
Okay.

Greg Linkowski  10:51  
And you can call it alcoholism, Alcohol Use Disorder. I almost see alcohol as a demon. It's there is a lot of evil that comes along with that. I'm convinced, even though I myself, used alcohol for much of my life to help numb and to help cope with with certain life circumstances. But anyway, as it turns out, I became a young teenager. Dad's drinking on the on the weekends worsened. It worsened dramatically. It was one Saturday in particular, one Saturday morning when I was approximately somewhere in the neighborhood of 13 or 14. Mom and Dad had been verbally, fighting, arguing, and there was a lot of yelling, and I am certain some things which I don't even know about, were going on between my parents. My dad was very drunk one Saturday morning. He pulled out a loaded 45 caliber semi-automatic pistol and announced to our family, I'm going upstairs to kill myself. He actually shot a bullet into the floor of the kitchen, and then so we knew he was he was dead serious. We all were frozen in terror. And by the way, this particular story, my siblings were not really happy about me sharing my story, which, which I felt it important to share anyway.

Vonne Solis  12:55  
Yeah.

Greg Linkowski  12:55  
But, but as it turns out, dad was stumbling up the stairs because he was he was going to go up to mom and dad's bedroom and kill himself there. We charged at him as a group and basically tackled him, and I was successful in wrenching the loaded 45 caliber gun out of his right hand. I thank God that we were able to, I think, with God's help, save dad's life. And eventually dad did dry out and did wind up going to Alcohol Alcoholics Anonymous and his last quarter, he was much, much more benevolent. Much more loving and caring individual. But this situation inoculated all of us, for sure, in our family with PTSD, if we didn't have it already.

Vonne Solis  14:01  
Yeah, I'm gonna pop in really briefly. We're gonna stick to your story, but just to support what you're saying. And you know, speaking to how many of us have come from dysfunction. So by the time I was 10, my mom had five or six suicide attempts. So it's so interesting when I read that. But hers weren't like with a gun. Hers were like pills, and I'm convinced in looking back, my mom and dad are both deceased, and I've become more vocal about her life a little bit. Because that's why, you know, and my sister have had, and I've had lots of conversations about this, like, did we have PTSD as kids and we kind of don't know it? Because, again, these is, this is generational trauma, and we're going to talk a little bit about that. But like you say, you're all inoculated. Love that word. Inoculated with this major trauma dysfunction. And my mom also got better. She was actually put in a mental hospital for two or three months, and ended up working with a fabulous psychiatrist who ended up being from India, and started using Eastern medicine techniques on her and it and it got her away from the drugs. But in the end, I think I just realized this a year or two ago, that she might have be had postpartum depression that, you know back then, that we probably would mistake for schizophrenia or some other weird stuff. And you know, again, these things aren't necessarily talked about until more recent decades. So so Greg, I get that your siblings might be a little upset, because exposing our vulnerabilities and our dysfunction is a little bit scary. And I was scared to talk about my mom's suicide attempts until a couple years ago, because I thought, Oh, well God, everyone's just gonna go. Well, there you go. There's why her daughter ended up dying. It's in the genes, in the DNA, you know, because right?

Greg Linkowski  15:55  
Whether it is or it isn't

Vonne Solis  15:58  
Yeah, but I didn't want my daughter diagnosed through my mother's actions by people who didn't know her, essentially.

Greg Linkowski  16:05  
Exactly, I mean, that's

Vonne Solis  16:06  
Right?

Greg Linkowski  16:07  
 totally, totally would be.

Vonne Solis  16:07  
That would be like, that would be like, saying, because you drank, you're probably an alcoholic because your dad was an alcoholic. And whether that's true or not, the point I'm making is I was so I have to admit, embarrassed and ashamed that my daughter had taken her life, and also super ashamed and embarrassed as a child that I didn't know if my mom was going to be alive or not when I got home. And so well, right? But you're in the same situation. You're dealing with a volatile alcoholic, and at least I wasn't dealing with that. So which is worse? Neither. But my point is, Greg, how many millions and hundreds of millions of us turned into adults from similar dysfunction or severe dysfunction of any type. You name it. And we're supposed to go on even after losing your child, actually, to be, to be quite honest, almost quite as if nothing's happened.

Greg Linkowski  17:06  
Right. And it's

Vonne Solis  17:10  
No wonder we're so screwed up.

Greg Linkowski  17:12  
Totally impossible. And there's this, what you brought up is so rich, I do want to mention to the audience and now my core, the path that I followed to enter into medicine,

Vonne Solis  17:36  
Yeah.

Greg Linkowski  17:37  
isn't the path that I wound up actually choosing for a career. But as a teenager, probably a year or two, after that catastrophic event that happened with dad, I got a hold of a book entitled "The Making of a Psychiatrist" by a fellow named Dr David Viscott. I read that book and I'm like, This is what I want to become. I want to become a psychiatrist.

Vonne Solis  18:10  
Oh!

Greg Linkowski  18:11  
I didn't question why.

Vonne Solis  18:14  
Yeah.

Greg Linkowski  18:14  
But I found out why many years later. I found out the why. In fact, I just found this out probably, I want to say maybe five years ago, I discovered the why behind why I wanted to be a psychiatrist and simply it was unconsciously, I desperately wanted to be able to heal my family.

Vonne Solis  18:41  
Yeah.

Greg Linkowski  18:42  
Well, that that desire to be an MD Psychiatrist that stayed with me, and even even in the first couple of years of medical school, I was, like, convinced this is what I want to become.

Vonne Solis  19:01  
Yeah.

Greg Linkowski  19:02  
Turns out, in my third year of medical school, we have these clinical clerkships where you get a few months to experience what the practice is like in various disciplines like medicine, surgery, OBGYN and psychiatry. Well, I was assigned to a locked ward.

Vonne Solis  19:27  
Yeah.

Greg Linkowski  19:27  
Along with a couple of other medical students, and we had the attendings and and we're doing our best to learn about how to, how best to help these very mentally ill patients who had just tremendous issues. Tremendous you know, like schizophrenia, psychotic disorders and and what not.

Vonne Solis  19:49  
Yeah.

Greg Linkowski  19:49  
Well, one weekend, a patient committed suicide while on the locked ward in. And Vonne, I have to tell you when I when I came into into the the facility on that following Monday, and I found that out, it was as if a switch went off in my mind. And I said, There's no way I could do this. So for a short period of time, I was questioning, Okay, so I made it into medical school, and that's, you know, you almost have to, it takes, in many ways, a miracle, to even get into medical school in the United States, but I was left, What am I going to do? My my hope and dream of being a psychiatrist was dashed.

Vonne Solis  20:50  
Yeah.

Greg Linkowski  20:50  
And then one day, I discovered diagnostic radiology, and we had a particular professor who gave a couple of lectures to our medical school class, and the pieces all of a sudden, kind of formed together. I'm one of these unusual individuals who I really liked anatomy and pathology. And anyway, it turns out diagnostic radiology, that's kind of a pre-re pre-requisite to be a good diagnostic radiologist because you have to understand anatomy and pathology. And there's a just a lot, a lot that's behind that. You know, putting the puzzle, putting the pieces together, and figuring out what's going on inside of someone. So instead of imaging the software, which actually, as it turns out, and you can't make this one up, my wife Lynn is a psychiatrist.

Vonne Solis  21:59  
Yeah. I was refraining from saying, You married a psychiatrist.

Greg Linkowski  22:03  
Right, right. Which is, which is very fascinating and so she images the software. I, in my career I image the hardware of what people are, you know, the skin and bones and all the rest of it.

Vonne Solis  22:19  
Yeah. So you technically saw a in that in that profession that you entered into you, would you look at X- rays, MRIs, CTs and all that, and make an initial diagnosis of what might be wrong with someone? Is that right?

Greg Linkowski  22:33  
Absolutely.

Vonne Solis  22:34  
Yeah.

Greg Linkowski  22:35  
And as it turns out, I was able to use one of the gifts that I got from actually being in the family of origin that I had. I developed the ability to be able to what I would call hyper-concentrate.

Vonne Solis  22:59  
Okay.

Greg Linkowski  23:01  
In other in other words, I could look at a study and dive into it and be able to extrapolate the information that was there. And it was, it was a very satisfying career.

Vonne Solis  23:16  
Yeah.

Greg Linkowski  23:17  
I have to say, but that is not the um, the my crowning achievement, along with my wife Lynn, is having had our children. That for me, was and is the ultimate life experience that I was privileged to have. And so we got married, actually, in 1983 so we've been married, believe it or not, 42 years. And 

Vonne Solis  23:54  
Congrats.

Greg Linkowski  23:56  
Thank you. I say 42 years of blissful combat.

Vonne Solis  24:02  
I'll tell my husband that okay?

Greg Linkowski  24:05  
Yeah, but, but if my wife sees this clip, she will not be happy.

Vonne Solis  24:11  
Oh, so shall I edit that out for you, Greg?

Greg Linkowski  24:15  
Keep it in because there isn't much we have not lived through.

Vonne Solis  24:19  
Exactly, you know, like exactly. So let's be fair let's be clear. You know you have had other experiences. So again, what we do have in common is the dysfunction, the childhood dysfunction, trauma, like I say, I'm pretty sure a lot of people come from and then, and then going through child loss. My husband and I are blessed to have a son together, so it's a second marriage for him. I wasn't married to my daughter's father, who also has passed, by the way, so I carry that kind of child loss a little bit differently when it's not two parents. But I understand from biological parents who state that's an amazing feat to stay together after child loss. So while we're not at that part yet, it's I just want to put that there. So combat bliss? You earned it. Because there's certainly a lot of problems and struggles that go along with raising an ill child, such as you may want to share when we turn to that part next. I'm just saying I'm standing up for combat bliss, because all those of us that can stick together with a partner after losing a child? I mean, yay to us, because it takes a lot of effort and hard work. Because, you know, I'm going to be talking to you a little bit about that. Bereavement doesn't go away, right? That

Greg Linkowski  25:40  
Right.

Vonne Solis  25:41  
You're, and you have to maneuver through your relationships - well, at least for a while anyway, a little differently, until you maybe find that soft spot that kind of we're comfortable. And for me, that took 18 to 20 years, 19 years to be honest. And maybe, maybe it'll change again. I don't really know, but, but not wanting to go down that rabbit hole, and I don't want to lose track of this thought. So I wanted to say, Do you feel? I got to go back to this question. So you believe that you wanted to become a psychiatrist to heal your family, and I'm and I'm thinking, you're referring to your siblings at this point. Who are you referring to?

Greg Linkowski  26:17  
Siblings and mom and dad. And just

Vonne Solis  26:21  
Yeah, just healing, healing, it right?

Greg Linkowski  26:24  
Healing and then it became apparent that that was just my fantasy.

Vonne Solis  26:34  
Yeah.

Greg Linkowski  26:35  
That was not going to be reality.

Vonne Solis  26:40  
Yeah the reality.

Greg Linkowski  26:41  
 And I had to let go of that. And that's one really important thing that I do want to bring up. One of the most important things right now at this station of life is just the notion of letting go.

Vonne Solis  26:58  
Yeah.

Greg Linkowski  26:59  
Not holding on even to our children that tightly because we don't own our children.

Vonne Solis  27:06  
I know.

Greg Linkowski  27:07  
And

Vonne Solis  27:08  
I know.

Greg Linkowski  27:09  
although you know, we as parents, many of us, self included, tend to think that we have all the answers and we're always right. That is not correct.

Vonne Solis  27:23  
I know. That's that's important what you're saying. I do want to just jump in quickly and ask you, when did you realize that, when did you let go of the idea of healing the family? Because healing is individual, of course, but you can have an influence on it for other family members. When did you let go of that? And yeah, that's just my question. When did you let go of that? 

Greg Linkowski  27:46  
It's been a continuous process that that has been pretty much lifelong

Vonne Solis  27:55  
Okay.

Greg Linkowski  27:57  
At the station of life now, now, I would like to mention we had we had our first child. A girl in 1990 who is alive and well and she and her precious husband have four little, beautiful souls that we

Vonne Solis  28:17  
Nice!

Greg Linkowski  28:18  
get to enjoy as our grandchildren, which has been just very much the icing on the cake.

Vonne Solis  28:26  
Yeah.

Greg Linkowski  28:27  
Well, three years after our daughter was born, we were blessed with a son, and his name was and still is, David.

Vonne Solis  28:39  
Yes.

Greg Linkowski  28:41  
We were on top of the world. We we believed all of us were healthy and we're growing as a family.

Vonne Solis  28:51  
Yeah.

Greg Linkowski  28:52  
Well, come to find out, probably when David was about three and a half months old, we realized one of our family, one of the people in our family, said, I'm concerned about David. He's not making eye contact with me. And I don't know about you, Vonne, but I've used the defense mechanism of denial a lot in my life in order to minimize the gravity of a particular situation, and kind of as a survival mechanism, if you will. Like downplaying how bad it is, in order to sidestep really seeing how bad the situation is. Does that make any sense to you?

Vonne Solis  29:48  
No, I can understand. It didn't happen in my life, because everything traumatic was so sudden, I didn't get a chance to kind of deny it. It was in my life.

Greg Linkowski  29:56  
I was one of the one of the people in denial but anyway.

Vonne Solis  30:00  
But wait. I wanted to say what's really important about this, and this might be speaking to a part of the audience. If you're going through this, have gone through this, this would be raising an ill baby, child, and a lot of people, from what I've read. Now, you would know this more than me and coming from your career. Oh, my God. Like that's the other thing I wanted to just say here, as you speak, is, for me, I think it might be rare for a medical doctor to speak about your vulnerabilities like this to help others. Because I was thinking about it, you know, and I was thinking, you know, we kind of look at our doctors as not that you're not human, but most of them don't share anything about their personal life. So you don't know your vulnerabilities. I'm super lucky to have a great GP who tells me stuff about his life. And it's cool. I have a dentist that does that. It's cool. Like, don't try and be this person that you know you have to be perfect. And here you are suffering through a lot of what you suffered. And by the way, in your book, "Dare to Thrive", you do talk about how you and your wife were treated by some other medical professionals in that search for what was wrong with David. So, of course you would be denying it. Of course.

Greg Linkowski  31:17  
So so we take David to the pediatrician as

Vonne Solis  31:23  
Yeah.

Greg Linkowski  31:24  
hoping for just a oh, there, there. Everything is fine, you know, with your son. Well, his expression, his facial expression, told everything. Vonne, he had a very worried look on his face, and couldn't hide that. And he said to us, Greg and Lynn, your son appears to have developmental delay. Vonne, I didn't even know what that meant.

Vonne Solis  31:57  
Right.

Greg Linkowski  31:58  
But we were to find out. Particularly after we he had a CAT scan of his head. We had to have an urgent pediatric neurologist consultation, and subsequently, David was worked up by a metabolic geneticist, MRI scan. And turns out, David had a most unusual problem with how the white matter in his brain was formed, and unfortunately, that led to abnormal electrical activity within his brain and which manifested as seizures. So when, when David was about five months old, seizures became part of his daily life and our lives.

Vonne Solis  32:55  
Yeah. Oh.

Greg Linkowski  32:58  
And I can't tell you how, how painful, particularly the early part was. We were we were really struggling. Now, how did we find how did we find a support system? How did we find some life lifesaver out there?

Vonne Solis  33:26  
Yeah.

Greg Linkowski  33:28  
I will just tell tell your audience this kind of situation, please do not try to do it alone. I don't believe God has God's meant us to be like alone on on the journey, especially something like this, where you have a member of the family who's really ill and who's really suffering. We found great comfort through our spiritual community, our church, and we wound up actually going to a very small inner city church.

Vonne Solis  34:14  
Yeah.

Greg Linkowski  34:15  
Where we were welcome with our children and and even if David was to cry out or make make a loud noise during the service, there were people around us who were loving, caring and praying for us. I can't I can't, well, I can't minimize how important that factor and feature is of just having a support system in place. Not only that, but we learned how to advocate for our son.

Vonne Solis  34:57  
Yeah.

Greg Linkowski  34:58  
And that is sometimes, you know, sometimes I had to, had to do things that that were out of my comfort zone, really, like changing pediatricians. You know, if one of them was, was a kind of extra, extra, I don't want to say mean or but I will tell you. What I have learned is make sure that if you're going through a situation with a family member, yourself that you yourself are able to advocate for yourself and or have somebody in your family unit or a trusted friend or relative who can advocate for you to be able to get the best team possible. And we had a whole array of healthcare workers, including pediatricians, neurologists, occupational speech, physical therapists. And together, we were able to navigate through it, and we were blessed with the ability to have, for most of David's life, a live-in nanny who was was with us pretty much until the end of David's life at age 10. He was almost 10 years old.

Vonne Solis  36:45  
Yeah, because that's you write a lot about this in your book. But so for the audience, I just want to say again, you know that this is, this is huge, I guess for I can't speak with any knowledge to it, and I'm don't profess to so we're here to learn from you, Greg. This must put enormous strain on the family, because everything then I would think, has to all the resources, mental, emotional. You know, I don't know about financial, because I do. I do know through sometimes the media here, people crowd fund for medicines, for example, for very rare diseases. That kind of thing that you know health care may might refuse, and then your health care system is just so different in the States. But when so the piece I want to talk about. So was this where, so you're raised a Catholic. But now would you say it was the birth and and then the diagnosis, knowing now you're going into something with your baby that's going to require a lot of extra support. Would you say this was a turning point a little bit in your adult life to become part of a church community where you found great faith? Because you talk about, you know, a few years down the road, miracles, things like that. But was that a turning point for you, or did it already strengthen the Catholic boy in you?

Greg Linkowski  38:08  
It was a turning point. I have to say, even these days, I am largely practicing as a non-denominational Christian. I, I value the rich tradition of of the Catholic church that I that I have my roots in as a child and as a young adult. But the influence of faith and just developing one's own faith walk is so important as far as just how, how I was able to navigate through this time.

Vonne Solis  38:58  
Yeah.

Greg Linkowski  38:58  
I also have to tell you, I spent many years in my own psychotherapy, unravelling and dealing with some of the painful memories and experiences, you know, that I went through as a child.

Vonne Solis  39:22  
So do you kind of mean? Do you mean that David's, the experience, your journey with David. His beautiful birth. I have my candle going for the kids. I always have a candle going when I have a bereaved parent on as my guest. But anyway, would you say that compounded the trauma from your childhood, trauma upon trauma? Because I'm thinking that's why I got PTSD when my like, diagnosed officially. Okay, it was 10 years after my daughter's passing, but I think it all was there from childhood, and it kind of exploded in my brain with her death. You know? Like something snapped in me. So would you say that now having this trauma that I, okay, well, I'll ask you. Do you believe that trauma, that specific trauma of a sick baby, you're a sick son, that other people do go through, is its own sort of trauma? A little different from the childhood trauma, but compounds. So you're just building on like, would you say that was trauma that lasted the whole of David's life? And do you still feel trauma from that experience of that loss?

Greg Linkowski  40:34  
I will say.

Vonne Solis  40:36  
Or let me ask this. This is a better way to ask it. Do you still feel that that trauma imprint is alive and well in you somewhere, of losing David built on the childhood threat of your dad leaving you and stuff? And maybe isn't active all the time, but could be, like triggered. But could be triggered. So you see what I'm saying. Like, I live with PTSD, but most of the time, you wouldn't know it.

Greg Linkowski  40:59  
Right.

Vonne Solis  41:00  
But something can trigger me, and my poor husband is having to learn, you know, since the diagnosis, but more particularly, the last two, three years, since he ended up having a friend who has PTSD. Oh, this is what it's like. This is why. So maybe Vonne isn't crazy.

Greg Linkowski  41:24  
Oh yeah. No, no. Listen, I am.

Vonne Solis  41:27  
You know what I mean?

Greg Linkowski  41:28  
If you got to know me better, I I would not consider myself overly sane, but but.

Vonne Solis  41:38  
Does trauma ever go away? I think that's the question.

Greg Linkowski  41:41  
No it doesn't.

Vonne Solis  41:42  
So it lives in us, right? What is trauma?

Greg Linkowski  41:45  
Well, you know, that's that's a very good question. I can tell you that right after David passed, in fact, it's exactly, just about exactly 23 years since he did pass. Initially, I felt some relief about just that God, in his infinite mercy and wisdom took David out of a life that was really hard. I mean, here, here's this little nine-year-old boy who's in a wheelchair. Much of his life had to have a gastrostomy tube, which is a feeding tube directly into his stomach so so he could get the appropriate nutrition, and couldn't walk, couldn't talk, and still had terrible seizures, which maybe were sometimes well controlled, sometimes weren't. And so what kind of a life did he have? And and so initially I felt, Oh, this is a relief. God took David home. Yes, I'm going to see him again. Well, just about two years, almost to the day, after David passed, I myself had an episode of depression, burnout. I tasted it. And then it was so bad for a few weeks that I couldn't face getting out of bed. That that's how that's how bad. That's the valley that I was in. Now this was after couple of two years after David passed. Now my experience, I'm sure, is not the same as everyone else, but I think we all grieve differently. I am comforted by the knowledge that his spirit has lived on and I, I myself when I transition to to being entirely spiritual being, I look forward to hugging David and getting to know him, and vice versa.

Vonne Solis  44:32  
So you believe that in spirit, he's in Afterlife, and that you'll re you'll reconnect with him once you pass. Yeah.

Greg Linkowski  44:39  
Absolutely. And to me, life doesn't make sense otherwise.

Vonne Solis  44:46  
Yeah.

Greg Linkowski  44:47  
But what we did do, is I am certain our older daughter did not get all of the attention and love and everything for for some time, but she, she is an amazing individual.

Vonne Solis  45:08  
I would say the same thing so though, so because I've talked to quite a few bereaved parents. I would imagine you've encountered them over your lifetime, too, and you know all of our surviving children when there is a death, or in this case, an illness before. Like I said, all of the resources, the attention, I'm talking mental, emotional, physical, they're all going to that situation or that one child and the surviving child or children, they do miss out. And my son was 13 when his sister took her life. Now they were half-brother sister, but he adored her. And also, I just want to say she had promised him something she never delivered on, and I think he still holds it against her, and he's and he's 33. But the point I'm saying, we can't go back and re-do those years, you know? And and so, you know, you gotta kind of face the truth. I have to just tell you that I've just completed an interview of a mom who lost four of her five children over her lifetime, all separately.

Greg Linkowski  46:13  
Oh my God.

Vonne Solis  46:14  
Exactly. So I'm telling you now. I may or may not edit this out, but her episode is airing in a week and two weeks from now.

Greg Linkowski  46:21  
I would love to see it and learn from her.

Vonne Solis  46:24  
Yeah, and her name's Vickie Menendez, and I've never in my life met anyone who lost more than two children. I have read in the news about people who've lost, say all their children from an accident, all at one shot, but to actually lose four adult children. Four adult children. Well, one was a stillborn, but then three adult children. Two two two of them 12 days apart in 2023. Medical and different things - like that's a lot. That is a burden to carry in this life. So one of the things that got me through really tough times was always thinking about somebody who had it worse than me. That

Greg Linkowski  47:03  
Yes.

Vonne Solis  47:03  
that helped a lot. And hanging on to let's just turn, let's just turn to faith right now. Because I am a believer that for me, it doesn't matter if it's religion, you know, in the traditional sense, Christianity, whatever it is, I really believe we have to believe in something to get us through. And one of the tricks I learned in my very early first months after Janaya died, was I would set a little if I could see just a little flicker of light in my brain, okay? I reached for that light. And I was I was forced or put myself through things that weren't necessary for me to do, because it was my trauma brain helping me survive. And I created scenarios in my head that weren't exactly necessarily real. And I believed I had to save the family and you know, and anyway, I ended up doing some sort of laborious jobs because I no longer had an identity. I couldn't associate myself with doing anything more than to be honest, I was working at our little community gas station. It was all I could handle. It had a little store as well. And that does a number on your identity as well when you feel you can't do anything anymore and you don't know who you are. So there's a whole piece, and that's an episode all in its own and we're not talking in its entirety about that today. But I did just want to speak to faith. Because if, if we experience all this trauma in childhood, then again in adulthood, and then we're supposed to just go and carry on as if nothing has happened and therapy doesn't necessarily cut it for a lot of people, okay? They can't afford it, they can't find the right therapist, on and on and on, and not every therapist can treat trauma. So what would you like to say about faith? And again, it doesn't matter that you found it in church. People find faith in different ways. More to the point is, how important do you think this is to our healing? To keeping us on track? To keeping that little flick of a light, maybe glowing, and even getting bigger the more we kind of heal?

Greg Linkowski  49:16  
I think it's very, very, very very important, and along with faith, actually, well, I did want to mention one group in particular. This disability ministry that came alongside us during David's life. And it's a group called Joni  j o n i and friends Christian disability ministry. Basically formed by a lady named Joni Eareckson Tada, who was quadriplegic, or is quadriplegic as a result of a diving injury when she was a teenager in the Chesapeake Bay. She has devoted her entire life to helping families, both in the United States and even around the world, they they give away wheelchairs and do some just some really good work for families. But one thing that you had mentioned that I do want to comment on, and we were we were blessed by being able to go to two different family retreat weeks that Joni and friends had. One of them was in 1997 and the other was a year before David died in 2001. I would see some of the other families and some of the kids had, like, tracheostomies and other things, and we would come back saying, All things considered, we have it good with David. And again, it's using comparison, which is not the most Christian thing to do, but it's a very human thing, to compare our one situation with other people's situations, and that helped us. That actually helped me keep on, keeping on just by seeing what other folks were going through, and a sense of community and and caring and all the rest of it. And after David passed, about a year afterwards, I volunteered in order to give back in David's memory. I helped out for a handful of years on their board of directors here in central California.

Vonne Solis  52:18  
Yeah.

Greg Linkowski  52:19  
But I would highly recommend support groups.

Vonne Solis  52:25  
Yes.

Greg Linkowski  52:27  
You know, things that, things that there's grief, support groups. There's all sorts of help is out there.

Vonne Solis  52:37  
Oh, for sure.

Greg Linkowski  52:38  
And it's so important to take advantage of that. Understand that no man is an island.

Vonne Solis  52:46  
I agree. I went to Compassionate Friends within three weeks, and went regularly, monthly. Compassionate Friends is for bereaved parents. We don't have quite the same resources in Canada as the States, because we're a little bit smaller, but I know there's quite a few resources in the States. Bereaved Parents of USA and stuff like that. So for people who are bereaved parents, just check in your state, folks and and in Canada, your province, where different chapters are of Compassionate Friends or a suicide group, or we have support groups in hospitals for children who die from illnesses, things like that. And it may not be something you want to stick with for a really long time, or you want to give back to help others along the way, so on and so forth.

I just want to make a point really quickly about when we talk about looking at other people's experiences and saying and when I did that, we develop an enormous amount of compassion, unconditional love when we lose a child. And there isn't one parent I've met that doesn't say that. Like you just feel a love for that child who's gone on another level. I don't know if that happened with you, Greg. Certainly happened with me, Like oh my God, I didn't know I loved them that much, because now it's almost like the birth. Well, a death is kind of the same, okay? Like you feel a love you never felt before, and it's really different. And so we can take that compassion and empathy and unconditional love for everybody else's situation who is different from ours - neither worse nor nor better - with hindsight for sure. But understanding it's not to compare and go, Thank God it wasn't me because that's the worst thing you can say to somebody. More like, if she can do it, or he can do it, I got this. It's more looking at it like that. That's that's kind of how I looked at it, with an enormous amount of compassion for people. And these would be cases that hit the media, for example.

So for example, a parent or parents who lost all their children from an accident at one time, and periodically, it does happen, and it always hits the news. And so it's just looking at it like that, but because we need to feel like, like, look up to them, it's almost as mentorship. If they can survive this, I can survive what I've got. It's kind of like that. And of course, I didn't do it after three or four years, but I also read the obituaries on a daily basis for maybe about two years. And I would skim through just to see if there was an obituary of, say, a teen, a young person or a child. And then that would help me feel not so alone. You know, Okay, Vonne, you're not the only one to go through this. Because we don't talk a lot about child loss. And in those days, 20 years ago, we certainly didn't talk about suicide. It was a huge no no, right? And absolutely, absolutely, I can't remember the word I used to use for it, but taboo. And,

Greg Linkowski  55:35  
Taboo, yeah, yeah.

Vonne Solis  55:36  
We're a little bit more open about that now. But at the same time before moving on. I also want to say there will be people who have not gone through child loss that you know, or have a disabled or medically challenged baby or child that will go go, I'm so glad that wasn't me. And that is not what is intended when Greg and I are talking here about looking at someone else's situation. It's for companionship, connection, mentorship, support in many ways and a strength. I looked at these people for strength because I did not want to live for two or three years after my daughter died, to be quite frank.

Greg Linkowski  56:13  
I, 

Vonne Solis  56:14  
And I love my son.

Greg Linkowski  56:17  
I would I would not judge you. I wouldn't,  I'm not here to judge. But one thing that you said, you hit the nail on the head by virtue of having had our walk, our time with David on Earth with us.

Vonne Solis  56:39  
Yeah.

Greg Linkowski  56:41  
We have become much more loving and empathic individuals. In fact, if you were to meet our daughter, and we were blessed, by the way, with with another child.

Vonne Solis  56:59  
I looked him up on IMDb.

Greg Linkowski  57:02  
Named Sam Sam Linkowski, who is an

Vonne Solis  57:07  
Actor.

Greg Linkowski  57:07  
He's got it going on down in LA. He is a, he's a stunning entertainer and I am so proud of him.

Vonne Solis  57:16  
Yeah.

Greg Linkowski  57:17  
As it turns out, David happens to not David. David's up in heaven. Sammy happens to be gay.

Vonne Solis  57:24  
Oh? Yeah.

Greg Linkowski  57:25  
That was, and still is, a journey for our whole family, and I am just grateful that God has, through my relationship with God, I have been able to accept,

Vonne Solis  57:49  
Yeah.

Greg Linkowski  57:50  
who he is, and again, not be judgmental about lifestyle or lifestyle choice or however way sexual orientation. I am, although I'm a Christian, I am leaving the judging of individuals as far as what their eternal destiny is. That's between God and and each person. But I am so very proud of Sammy and his significant other. I ...

Vonne Solis  58:29  
Yeah, that's obvious. Like, but you you just like, really talk about him like I do about my son, who's 33. And I'm like, you know aahh.. so but, yeah, it's obvious. But this doesn't take away from any of you know, the other children, your daughter, who you love. We can love them all equally and just gush about them, all their accomplishments. But for people who are judgy about your kids? The one, one thing I really, really get annoyed by, but I don't see it too often in my life anymore, is people's intolerance for their children. And I'm thinking to myself, and I might even say, if we're in conversation, imagine you don't have them. Think about that. Then think about, is there another way to maybe think about your child? And oh, it just irritates me, and I guess I haven't been around it for a couple years, so, you know, I don't think about it too much anymore, but really, people. Think about if you didn't have that child with you. Because those of us that don't have our children anymore? One of the first things I think a lot of bereaved parents do really realize is how much we took them for granted. Don't take your kid for granted. And anyway, which whichever way the wind blows for their life, it's their journey. Support them. Love them and support them unconditionally. And it's the easiest thing to do in the world, is it not Greg? To support our living children?

Greg Linkowski  59:57  
Absolutely.

Vonne Solis  59:58  
Right?

Greg Linkowski  59:59  
And and to realize that their their journey, and this is, this is something that I am still embracing.

Vonne Solis  1:00:07  
Yeah.

Greg Linkowski  1:00:08  
But each of our journey belongs to Self.

Vonne Solis  1:00:12  
Exactly. Thank you for saying that.

Greg Linkowski  1:00:14  
Like even a journey that that my wife Lynn is on.

Vonne Solis  1:00:18  
Yep.

Greg Linkowski  1:00:19  
I am encouraging her to do what is most meaningful. And even me appearing on the on these podcasts, if, if my story, if, if this podcast touches even just one person in your audience, I'm I'm very grateful.

Vonne Solis  1:00:48  
Well, it touched me, so you got your one.

Greg Linkowski  1:00:52  
And, by the way.

Vonne Solis  1:00:54  
Yeah.

Greg Linkowski  1:00:54  
By the way, if anyone does choose to buy my book and and does resonate, I would love to have you post a review on Amazon, and the books are available predominantly through Amazon, Barnes and Noble, and there's other other outlets as well.

Vonne Solis  1:01:14  
Okay, so I just want to say also audience. I will have a link to Joni and Friends, because I think, Greg, you provided that link to me of that disability ministry you call it. So I'll have a link in the show notes to that if anyone wants to check that out and just read about Joni's story. I didn't realize she was a quadriplegic and all the resources, because, as you've said, they helped you considerably.

Greg Linkowski  1:01:39  
Very good, loving, caring.

Vonne Solis  1:01:44  
Yeah. Provides community, community for people going through similar, similar situations, right?

Greg Linkowski  1:01:50  
Exactly.

Vonne Solis  1:01:52  
Yeah.

Greg Linkowski  1:01:52  
And it's, it's a huge blessing.

Vonne Solis  1:01:55  
Okay, so Greg, so I am encouraging the audience to check out Greg's book, "Dare to Thrive". Where he's got actually goes you go into a little bit more detail on all of these aspects we've sort of touched on. I really loved reading about you learning to become a doctor and so on, and your moves and you know a little bit about your childhood, things like that. I did want to round this up as we're at the top of the hour here, Greg with you do say that pain in life is inevitable, it probably is. But through you, through faith, hope and perseverance, along with God's help, we can overcome and thrive. Of course, the reason you wrote your book. And you mentioned earlier, I don't know if it was prior to us hitting the record button or we were just talking earlier in the episode about attitude, and how attitude is very important so that we can connect to the hope that we need. And so to thrive, do you sort of sum it up that we need attitude, hope, faith, and you know, what is it we need?

Greg Linkowski  1:02:57  
Yeah. How, how one interprets what happens in one's life, there is choice that's involved. And what will you choose? I, I believe life has a lot of challenges. I think if one has the kind of attitude that, I own how I'm going to respond. I I'm taking ownership of that. It's not just, oh woe me. It's life. Life is is is, to me, life is a series of many challenges, and it's a question of how you choose to deal with with them. Events come, events go. People, people are born, people live, people pass on.

Vonne Solis  1:03:58  
Yeah.

Greg Linkowski  1:03:59  
And I'm just at a place where I am enjoying each day and striving to live in the present.

Vonne Solis  1:04:13  
Yeah.

Greg Linkowski  1:04:14  
Not lamenting what what happened or what I wish would happen far into the future. But the key for me, I think, is living in the now, and potentially just, I ask God to help me do the next right thing in my in my daily life.

Vonne Solis  1:04:36  
Yeah. Again, I we, we need direction. And quite frankly, so I work with angels. I kind of equate all of that divine stuff. I would pray. I used prayer. I actually went to a prayer board for those interested, for at least a year or two. I had many people pray for me online. We didn't have internet. We I mean, we had internet, but not the stuff we have today back in 2005. So I do, do agree with you in terms of the faith, the community, all of that, the support, where you can find it. I will like to, would like to say it doesn't always come from where you want it to come. So certain family members, things like that. Reach beyond yourself. I think that's really, really key. And I do agree with you about the attitude, but I loved what you said, and I'm going to repeat it. That we have the choice in how we interpret what's happened in our life. I've said that for years, but you've said it in a slightly different way, and the key for me in that statement is interpre. Both choice and interpret.

And so what's happened is your reality. It's not the person you're sitting next to. That's not their reality. And that's another key piece, and I'm just thinking about this when you're talking is that my reality is mine. My husband's is his. My son's is his. My sister's is hers. About everything that happened from one single event. And whether we do or do not communicate and connect with each other, can flourish, help our relationships flourish, or it can actually destroy them, which we don't have time to talk about today. But so it's really important we have an understanding that no one else, and that's when they say, we all grieve differently. Sure. I've always said grief is kind of made up the same things, but how we experience it is unique.

So Greg, what are your resources? Where you want to connect or have people connect to you? I know you said "Dare to Thrive" is on Amazon. We will have a link to your socials. Would you like to tell me where people can find you?

Greg Linkowski  1:06:30  
Yeah. They can find me on Instagram.

Vonne Solis  1:06:33  
Yeah.

Greg Linkowski  1:06:34  
And the the handle is the greg lynkowski, all lowercase underscore m, period, d.

Vonne Solis  1:06:46  
Yep.

Greg Linkowski  1:06:47  
And my Facebook is Greg Linkowski, MD. And my email is actually linkowskigreg@gmail.com. If anybody wishes to email me, I I would get back to you.

Vonne Solis  1:07:07  
Sure. So what I'll do, folks, to make it simple for Greg, simple for you is I will have active links in the show notes to your Instagram, to your Facebook, to your email, and a link to your book for you on Amazon. If they can get it any other way, they'll have to contact you for that, and I'll help you out that way by putting putting links. I loved your book. I really did. So thanks for sharing that, Greg. I kind of feel like I got your life story from it, and it was fun to read, especially for you growing up in Yonkers. And

Greg Linkowski  1:07:40  
Thank you, Vonne.

Vonne Solis  1:07:41  
I'm a little Westcoaster in Canada. So it sounded pretty cool to me.

Greg Linkowski  1:07:45  
I'm now a Westcoaster, but Vonne, many blessings to you in your work, which to me, is an important ministry, and I wish you just the very, very best.

Vonne Solis  1:08:00  
And thank you for being part of my podcast community, Greg. I do appreciate you as well.