Ep. 118 Finding Grace in Grief: Love, Loss, and Losing Katy 🌸 🕊️

What does grief look like when it doesn't fit the mold? When the casseroles stop arriving? When the world expects you to move on and you’re not ready?
In this heartfelt episode, author and poet Jackie L. Disch shares the story behind her memoir Losing Katy, guiding us through the deeply personal and non-linear journey of losing her wife Katy, to sudden strokes during the height of the COVID-19 pandemic. Jackie's story also offers a perspective into is something so many of us carry quietly: when we don't see ourselves reflected in the mainstream conversation around loss.

From honouring Katy’s end-of-life wishes to finding unexpected comfort in life's smallest moments, Jackie's experience invites us to rethink the way we understand and support everyone in their grief. In our conversation, we explore the healing power of writing, the signs of connection that transcend loss, and why open conversations about death may be one of the greatest gifts we can give to the people we love.

Whether you've lost a same-sex partner, a non-traditional relationship, or simply feel like your grief has been minimized or misunderstood this conversation is for you.

#GriefJourney #GriefSupport #SpousalLoss #EndOfLifePlanning

For more grief resources and books:
Jackie’s website:
https://www.jackieldisch.com

Vonne’s website:
https://vonnesolis.com/resources

🆕 📣 Text Me Fan Mail

You can now text me directly about any episode. I personally read your messages and respond with practical, grounded insight. While I can’t offer long back-and-forth exchanges, I may respond directly or address your question in a future episode.

Your voice helps shape the conversation.

Subscribe to the podcast! Share your favourite episodes! Connect with me on LinkedIn and Facebook. 

Transcript

Jackie L. Disch  0:00  
But even with Katy, hospice had been saying that, you know, it could be any time now. She was on hospice for two and a half weeks. She had had become unconscious during that time, and so there were a few days when she was in the unconscious state. So I was sitting there on the edge of the bed and her, her breathing had become kind of irregular. All of a sudden, there's this pounding on the roof. And I had no idea what it was. Then I realized it was hail.

Vonne Solis  0:35  
Oh.

Jackie L. Disch  0:36  
But then this was July in Minnesota, which is hot and humid, and so the air conditioner was on. And you know how it's like, sweetie, I think it's raining. Because she loved the rain. She loved the sound and the smell, and she loved the gentle thunder. And this, this came out of nowhere. There was nothing on the radar. It was a beautiful, sunny day. So I jump up off the bed, and I'm running between the windows opening because one of them was by the air conditioner. So then I close that and then I opened the other one to, you know, have the smell and the sound come in. And it was while I was doing that I was listening to the rain, but I was listening to her breathing, and I looked at her just as she took her last breath.

Vonne Solis  1:33  
This is the Grief Talk podcast with Vonne Solis, helping you heal after loss and life's hardest hits. My guest today is Jackie L. Disch. Jackie is a lifelong writer and the indie author of two poetry collections called Life Forces, A Journey and Hitting Bone. Both part of the Tretter Collection in gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender studies at the University of Minnesota. Her latest book, Losing Katy, A Memoir of Love, Loss and Living Grief, is a blend of poetic prose, journal entries and emotional insight, offering readers an intimate portrait of living grief as it traces Jackie's journey from just before the death of her wife, Katy, to the third anniversary of her loss. Jackie's writing has always been personal in nature. It carries with it the hope of helping others, bringing a sense of connection and understanding in situations where it is easy to feel alone and misunderstood. Jackie, welcome to the show. I'd love you to pop in and say hi to my audience.

Jackie L. Disch  2:40  
Thank you.  Thank you for having me, Vonne.

Vonne Solis  2:42  
Yeah. You're very, very welcome. Audience, as I, as I introduced Jackie at the beginning of this episode. She is an author and a poet with her recent book titled Losing Katy, A Memoir of Love, Loss and Living Grief. This episode is going to be about spousal loss, and I'm going to invite Jackie to sort of direct it, shape it you know, the way that you know you want to Jackie in terms of messages you want to get across for either a specific audience and audience in general. Grief, as we all know, is universal. It doesn't matter who we've lost. As a bereaved parent, I can tell you, I've actually met people and channelled for people years ago who have lost a parent that seemed more devastated than me losing my child. So there's no comparisons in this grief world. As I mentioned to Jackie before we started recording, I'm a bereaved mom for almost 21 years. 21 years this July of my daughter who died by suicide. So there's that stigma. We've got stigma into certain types of grief, disenfranchised grief. So today, Jackie, I'll ask some questions, and let you just invite you to answer them any way you want to. And with you know, audience and the audience in mind that you know you want this messaging to hit and you know and help, and however, however the conversation goes. So I would like to remind the audience. Jackie did lose her wife, Katy, and it, I would imagine, has been extremely devastating and painful, but I'm going to let you talk to us about how that loss impacted you. And I thought I'd maybe start with why you wrote the the book, and it was just published in 2025 right? Your book? And can I just ask when Katy did pass away?

Jackie L. Disch  2:42  
She died in, excuse me, in July of 2020.

Vonne Solis  2:42  
In 2020, Oh, in Covid.

Jackie L. Disch  3:28  
In the midst of Covid. Which is, I know a lot of people have lost loved ones during that time. So it's a very different ah, niche.

Vonne Solis  3:52  
Yes.

Jackie L. Disch  3:52  
To death.

Vonne Solis  3:52  
Yeah.

Jackie L. Disch  3:52  
To have somebody die during that time.

Vonne Solis  3:52  
Yes, yes. I actually just had a doctor, a psychologist on who lost her husband in Covid, and he was late 80s and had cancer. But she couldn't go in and be in the hospital for all the different cancer, you know, things he needed because it was spreading, the treatment and stuff. So maybe you can even speak a little bit about that because that has to, in a way, be a loss all of its own. Not being able to to be maybe present. So why don't you take it away and and speak about so why you wrote the book. Who it's intended for, if everybody or a niche group, and kind of whatever you want to say to set up the loss itself.

Jackie L. Disch  3:52  
In 2023, I came up to the north shore in Minnesota, where I live right now. I rented a one room cabin and did a kind of self-imposed writing retreat for 10 days. And during that time, I organized all the writings I had done from 2020 to 2023. So the book itself covers writings just before, during and after, up to the three year anniversary of Katy's death. So it's the writings that I had already done during those periods, during that time period. And it was when I was organizing them that the idea of putting them into a book came to me. And at that point it was kind of like something bigger than me was just kind of moving me along with this idea and this project. And I did it, I put it together in honour of Katy to let the world know a little bit about her. It's about our relationship and our love for one another. It's about my grief. But it's also for people, anyone as as we've talked about before just recently, grief is universal. It's going to touch absolutely everyone at some point or another. There's no boundaries to it. There's no, it doesn't matter your social station or your gender or your sexuality or anything. It just is across the board. Saying that there are, you know, everybody's grief is individual. It's different, but the grief is universal.

Jackie L. Disch  4:39  
So part of it was also to share with others and show them that this is what grief looks like. I intentionally use the term "living grief" in the title because that's what I believe we do. I believe we live it, as opposed to getting over it or getting through it. It's something that always stays with us in whatever form. And so my book is a visual illustration of grief. It is, and it's a different kind of memoir. It's kind of a genre bending. I do, it's, it's not a 70,000 word memoir. It's, it's mostly prose. I hesitate to call it poetry, but some of it just comes out that way. Some are two lines long and some are three pages long. And it also in the back of my mind, I think I did that because I know when you're in grief, you don't have the attention span to read, you know, big, long things. So this is also meant to just pick it up and you can read one or two things and then set it down and walk away. At the same time it does tell a story. Like I said, it's from just before Katy's death to the three year anniversary. And so it tells and it shows how grief is non-linear. You know, two years later, you can find yourself experiencing those same or similar things that you felt, you know, two or three months after the initial death. So it's kind of, it's not a how to, it's not a manual. It's, it's just an expression of grief. I've been a lifelong writer, and that's kind of the form I've always written in. You know, I write to process things, and as a result, it produces a record of events and how I was feeling. What I was thinking as a certain point in time. So it just seemed natural that that's the form that this book would take.

Vonne Solis  11:14  
Yeah. As I mentioned in your intro, you've published two books of poetry way back like you know, 20, 24, 25 years. 2001 and and 2005 if I remember. Is that right?

Jackie L. Disch  11:26  
2001 and 2004.

Vonne Solis  11:28  
And then they're in the University of Minnesota. Is that, like an award or recognition?

Jackie L. Disch  11:33  
At the time, it was the largest collection of gay and lesbian, transgender, bi collection of writings, and I think there's artwork and all that type of thing. And the University of Minnesota, particularly under the former governor Elmer, everything's been archived.

Vonne Solis  11:59  
Yeah.

Jackie L. Disch  12:00  
I don't know if they they used to have an actual physical location.

Vonne Solis  12:04  
Yeah.

Jackie L. Disch  12:05  
I don't know if everything's been archived and they're not taking additional pieces. But that was, like I said, that was, you know, back around 21 and 24.

Vonne Solis  12:17  
But that's great. I mean, that's just great. And I wanted to point that out, because all those of us as published authors, a lot of us indies, you know, I mean, we write the stuff and and, you know, want people to find it and see it. But, you know, even with, even with my own work in the grief field and stuff, I've really kind of struggled with wanting to, you know. I'll just be really, really clear make money off my daughter's story. You know? And I'll say ahh. And so and so, I haven't had levels, huge levels of success But, the one thing I have had, starting with my first book, published in 2011 is when people write you and tell you it saved their life? Like you can't ask for anything more than that, and I've had that, you know, a few times, that it really helped, you know, people through their own ordeal. So those of us as authors, yay to us, and we should celebrate all our books and our accomplishments. So I just want to point that out, author to author, Jackie. Going back to Katy a little bit, was her death expected, or was it relatively like sudden from an illness or something else?

Jackie L. Disch  13:27  
She had two strokes ten days apart, and then she died one month to the day after the first stroke.

Vonne Solis  13:36  
Okay.

Jackie L. Disch  13:39  
The first stroke was June 3, and it seemed like, I believe it's called, like a transient stroke, where you should basically recover it overnight, except for some lingering fatigue or sporadic memory problems. Like you can't remember a password or somebody's last name. So she was a licensed psychologist in private practice for 25 years in the Minneapolis area, and so she went back to work. And like I said, this was during the Covid lockdown. Things were just starting to open up in terms of, least in Minnesota, in terms of being able to have like a gathering of 20 people outside. 

Vonne Solis  14:41  
Oh, yeah.

Jackie L. Disch  14:42  
Family.

Vonne Solis  14:43  
Yeah.

Jackie L. Disch  14:44  
Friends.

Vonne Solis  14:44  
Yeah.

Jackie L. Disch  14:45  
So most things were done through video.

Vonne Solis  14:50  
Yeah.

Jackie L. Disch  14:51  
Even, even her doctor's appointment was done through video, and she had that, I think the first one was on a Wednesday evening. The following Thursday, so a week later, she saw her doctor, and then she had an MRI on Friday. I had to leave her at the door of the hospital, and someone escorted her to the place in the of the MRI inside the hospital, and escorted her back out, and she said it, and she said nobody else was around. It was just like ghost town. They had blocked off all these sections of the hospital. So it was like a little maze that you had to go through to get to the MRI. And it was so hard to have to just sit in the car and watch her go in and do this. So at this point we didn't know what had happened. If it was something heart-related. Was it a brain tumour? Was it just a weird thing that happened type thing? So she had the MRI Friday and then Saturday night into Sunday is when she had her second stroke, and that one is the one that affected her ability to speak. She could still talk, but she would like start a sentence out just fine, and then it would add in words that made no sense whatsoever. I don't like the term word salad. That just seems very disrespectful, so I termed it Katy speak.

Vonne Solis  16:58  
Okay.

Jackie L. Disch  16:59  
And it was, we were so close and so connected, that it was like we were in a little cocoon because I came to understand what it was she was wanting or saying. Not necessarily word for word, that I understood, but I got the gist of it, but it was very exhausting for both of us. And we just had to completely concentrate on what she was saying to try and get what it was that she meant. So for Katy, who's a psychologist and makes her living that way, losing her ability to speak was a huge loss for her. She was a private person, but she was also very sociable. Very well spoken and very personable. Just a lovely person in general. So we were still waiting to hear the results from that first event when the second event happened, and in the meantime, she didn't like have a paralyzed side of her body. I do believe she lost the sight in one eye, but she didn't verbally say that to me. I could just tell from cues. One of our favourite things to do was to be in bed reading at night. And so I'd be reading. And I'd just noticed that it had been a while since she, you know, flipped the page. I don't think she was seeing. Now, she did have her living will or healthcare directive. She had it clearly stated that if she had a stroke that left her unable to fully communicate and partake in life, that she did not want treatment. And because of her experience with the MRI and we had seen on TV about people who, you know they couldn't be with their loved ones, or people who were deciding not to have treatment because they wanted to be at home with their loved ones. So we had seen that and knew that was happening, and Katy did not want to be alone. She did not want to be dropped off at an ER and have me drive off and I didn't want that for her. How can you have somebody who's not able to verbally communicate?

Vonne Solis  20:01  
Yes.

Jackie L. Disch  20:02  
Go into a medical hospital setting like that?

Vonne Solis  20:06  
 Yeah.

Jackie L. Disch  20:08  
You know, and have them be alone? Not gonna happen.

Vonne Solis  20:11  
Was that hospital that she would have gone to, or did go to? Was it like super crowded with Covid cases and stuff?

Jackie L. Disch  20:17  
I don't know but everything was so partitioned off.

Vonne Solis  20:21  
I'm just in my mind, imagining the people getting dropped off, maybe in a wheelchair, put in a hallway, and then they sit. And especially if you can't speak, you're just left there because of all the all the crowds of people. Like we, our hospitals were overflowing, overflowing with cases. So did it feel risky with the second event for Katy to not want treatment and not go to the hospital? Like, what, how were you feeling about that? I know you wanted her at home, but was it scary that, Oh, my God, this could happen again tonight or tomorrow. She's gonna die. Like, what was going through your mind?

Jackie L. Disch  20:59  
My main thing was to honour Katy's decisions and to support her. After her first stroke, you know, we did go over our legal documents. We had everything, you know, we've taken care of all of that and we had some hard, gut-wrenching discussions during that time in between the two strokes. So, I basically knew what her decision was going to be. Like I said it was in her healthcare directive. And we, while waiting for the doctor's office to get back to us, Katy had also, she wasn't really eating very much. She wasn't really drinking very much. And so I knew where that at least was. Now, If Covid hadn't been going on?

Vonne Solis  22:10  
Yeah.

Jackie L. Disch  22:11  
Yeah, she may have gone to the next appointment, and, you know, seen what the damage was. What the recovery, possible recovery options were, but you couldn't do that. So yeah, that it was very much an impact on just how it all went down.

Vonne Solis  22:34  
 Yeah.

Jackie L. Disch  22:36  
But again, because Katy's family, her like aunts and stuff. There was a history of heart stuff and stroke-type stuff. So that's why she was so specific in her healthcare directives. So it wasn't just out of the blue type thing.

Vonne Solis  22:54  
Were her parents alive at this time? No, they had gone. So you're her primary partner. Does she have any siblings?

Jackie L. Disch  23:01  
She has three sisters.

Vonne Solis  23:03  
So at this point, you're her primary partner, and you're in this like cocoon together going through this. But at this point, after the second event, the second stroke. When was the moment where it was time to call in the family? Like you knew that she was going to go, or she knew, but maybe couldn't convey it, but, or did it? Did her death just happen so suddenly?

Jackie L. Disch  23:24  
Yeah, that was a, that was a process. Katy and I were together for 23 years, and we were legally married for six.

Vonne Solis  23:34  
Nice.

Jackie L. Disch  23:36  
So I was next of kin.

Vonne Solis  23:41  
Yeah.

Jackie L. Disch  23:41  
And we did have a relationship with her, her sisters. She also had two kids from a previous marriage, and they were both adults. Katy, she wanted to say goodbye to the people that she wanted to say goodbye to, and she did. And then she didn't really want to have much contact with anyone directly. After that second stroke, and after a couple of days, when I finally was able to talk to a doctor, she did start the process for hospice to come in. Her second stroke happened overnight between Saturday and Sunday, and then hospice came in on the following Friday. And again, in part because of Covid, but also because of Katy's wishes, it was it was me, one of her cousins, who she wanted to have help with the end of life things, and then also one of my brothers was there to help. The three of us Katy, myself and my brother were pretty good friends throughout the years, so she wanted him there. But I think part of it was wanting him there for me. To have a support person for me as well. And she did a few things like that where she was thinking of me for after she's gone. And I write about some of those things in the book.

Jackie L. Disch  25:42  
An example is one night she had, like, some night terrors, and so the next day, she was trying to tell me something that she wanted, and I wasn't getting it through words. And then she was drawing. And what she drew was she wanted a weighted weighted blanket. And she knew somebody who did a lot of work with people near the end of their life, and, you know, used weighted blankets in that process. So when she was able to give me the name, it clicked, and I was like, oh, okay, that's what she wants. So by the end of that day, she had one. And she had used it. And then one night, this was before, while she was still able, she was conscious to communicate. She told me that she wanted me to use the weighted blanket when I needed comfort and to feel her close. And it's like,

Vonne Solis  26:56  
Yeah.

Jackie L. Disch  26:56  
this woman is dying. She's facing death.

Vonne Solis  26:59  
Yeah.

Jackie L. Disch  27:00  
And she's still looking at ways to help me when she's gone.

Vonne Solis  27:06  
Yeah, what a compassionate person. By the way, on the note of weighted blankets. Because they kind of came into, you know, I don't want to say trendy, no, but into the market. I remember seeing them just a few years ago, and it might have been around Covid, and you know what? They might have been around before, but they really became a big thing in Canada. A weighted blanket. And I read that they were really good for what you just talked about, for, like, like, making you comforted, feel cozy and safe. Is that true?

Jackie L. Disch  27:37  
Yeah, yeah. And that's, that's what she said about it after, after she had it. She said she felt safe and she felt that it felt good to have.

Vonne Solis  27:50  
Yeah, because I maybe I should get one, because at the time, I sort of forgot about them, until you just mentioned it. But do you still use your weighted blanket?

Jackie L. Disch  28:00  
I still have it, and I do still use it. Particularly on rough days, and particularly if other things aren't working for me? And then it'll just pop into my head and it'll be like, Oh yeah, I have the weighted blanket. So then I'll lay down with that.

Vonne Solis  28:20  
I'm going to check them out. Yeah. I mean, a cat would really be what I want, but I'm not getting another animal. So, you know, the weighted blanket is coming in pretty sharply in my mind here to check out.

Vonne Solis  28:33  
So.

Jackie L. Disch  28:34  
 It's not, it's not as much work.

Vonne Solis  28:37  
Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. So when she   passed, she died at home?

Jackie L. Disch  28:45  
Yes. She went into a hospital like a mute.

Vonne Solis  28:48  
Right.

Jackie L. Disch  28:49  
That was the main thing. She trusted me to be her voice. And to honour, as hard as it was, it was like, No, I don't want you to die.

Vonne Solis  29:00  
 Yeah.

Jackie L. Disch  29:02  
I also don't want you to stay just for me, when you're not living a life that you're enjoying or even able to participate in. And she could have had another stroke that just would have taken her just like that. I can't imagine living with that fear. It's just me.

Vonne Solis  29:25  
Yeah. Here's a question, though. Do you think she was afraid, or did she go into sort of like I really believe, and I've talked to people who work in palliative. I've had a chaplain on who does end a life. She's amazing. You know, do you? Do you feel that she was, I'm gonna say, resigned to it, and that might not be the best word, but accepted it. This is her time, and that she was, like, easing into the transition to leaving this physical world versus like? Like, you know, fighting and resisting it? Because I'm sensing that she was, like, completely accepting of it. When you can think about another person's like, your well-being, I think you've pretty much accepted your own journey to, you know, the other side, right?

Jackie L. Disch  30:17  
Yeah. And another piece of my, our history is that back in 2011, I had wanted to be at that time, it was referred to as a death midwife. Now it's death doula.

Vonne Solis  30:36  
Yeah.

Jackie L. Disch  30:36  
And so I was doing some training that was available at that time because that was near the beginning of that type of care or that type of service.

Vonne Solis  30:49  
Oh.

Jackie L. Disch  30:50  
And so Katy and then the cousin that she also wanted involved in her end of life stuff. The three of us were starting an organization to help people at the end of life. So we all had that kind of training and we had that awareness. So that was probably we were a little bit further along than the average person.

Vonne Solis  31:20  
 Yeah.

Jackie L. Disch  31:20  
When it came to a situation like that. So all of that helped. You know, still horrendous.

Vonne Solis  31:28  
Did you work as a death doula?

Jackie L. Disch  31:30  
We never got it off the ground. I have had a lot of deaths in my life.

Vonne Solis  31:36  
Yeah.

Jackie L. Disch  31:37  
And I've, I have sat with people at the end of their life. Both my parents died. Katy's parents died, and one or the other of us who was with them as much as we could be during that time. So when Katy died, all of our parents had been  gone for 10 to 15 years. I also had friends. It was a period of time in my life when, I think it was eight people died in a ten month period. This wasn't Covid-related. This was, you know, different relationships. Like an old friend or, you know, an old schoolmate or classmate or family member. Five of those were suicide.

Vonne Solis  32:30  
Five of them were suicide? Wow. You know, I'm just gonna say this just for a nod to anyone in the audience watching or listening to this episode, and my own loss of my daughter to suicide, twenty, twenty-one years ago this July. So we've got a really big push in Canada for medical assisted death, and they call it MAID. And and you know, it's, we've had it since 2017 and in 2021 they brought in a conversation about opening it up to mental health. And anyway, it's, it's going to be decided, voted on, I believe it's next March. So March 2027. It's, so it's, it's, you know, I like to say to people when we talk about this word suicide, and I've learned over the years not to say committed, but say died by suicide, and that because they're trying to take the criminal element away from this. But I said, Man, if we adopt MAID, and we're one of the most progressive countries in the world, apparently, with assisted dying. Then I said, you know, we've got to change the conversation about, you know, people who who leave on their own without that ability to apply for help, because in some cases, they are granted it fairly quickly, and it's up to that person to know if it was reasonable. And I'm not going to get into a conversation, obviously, and judge it, but it's, it's caused quite a bit of conversation. And I don't know where the states is on on that. So, I'm trying not to gasp when you said eight of them were suicides because it's like, wow, there are people that decide they just don't want to be on the planet. And, and we just have to change the conversation around that, but because it's still so stigmatized in many ways. So the reason I talk about MAID a little bit here is because MAID will have to destigmatize suicide in general. Anyway, that's another conversation, but I just wanted to put a little plug in there if anyone who's feeling really stigmatized by their loved one's death, which I did for many, many, many, many years, and embarrassed and ashamed and everything. You know? Because we had all these terrible feelings about, you know, if your loved one has gone that way, then you know, there must be something wrong. There must be a reason. And I just, oh, anyway, so I just want to put a little plug in to that, that the way that we're looking at it in Canada is definitely changing, and it's going to change the conversation, for sure. So you never became a death doula but I think it's great that you studied it at least. That's so cool. I've never sat with any human at end of life. I never have had that opportunity. I was just going to ask if you thought like it was really such an honour? I've heard people just say it's the most, I have a friend whose mom died in her arms, and she said it was the, the most beautiful thing ever.

Jackie L. Disch  35:29  
Yeah.

Vonne Solis  35:30  
And so what are your thoughts on that? Like being able to be there and help a person in that moment when they when they literally cross? You know, transition?

Jackie L. Disch  35:41  
It is an incredible experience, and I feel very comfortable with death. I know that sounds kind of odd.

Vonne Solis  35:51  
That's great. That's great.

Jackie L. Disch  35:54  
Like with my parents, my mom in particular. My sister is great at doing things like appointments and stuff like that, but she wasn't comfortable being in the presence of someone who was dying.

Vonne Solis  36:12  
Yeah.

Jackie L. Disch  36:12  
I hate that appointment stuff.

Vonne Solis  36:16  
Yeah.

Jackie L. Disch  36:18  
But I I'm okay with being with that person. And it is an honour. It is a beautiful process. Having said that there are deaths that are more calming than others. There are some people who just fight it tooth and nail. You know, like it's a very disruptive passing.

Vonne Solis  36:48  
Were you there when she actually left? Took her last breath? Because I think, you know, and I'm just saying this, but I think it's such a special bond of trust and being vulnerable. Because I had recently had a psychologist on who said, a lot of people die when no one's in the room. Like they don't want certain people around, or they know certain people won't be able to take it. So to be able to actually well witness that. You know, like, be there. I think, I think it's just such a moment of vulnerability, even for the person who's leaving, to have someone witness that. You get what I'm saying, Jackie?

Jackie L. Disch  37:31  
Yes. That is that is true. Like when my mom died, I was there. Katy was there. My dad was there, and one of my brothers was there, and I think one of his daughters, we were all in the apartment. And me, Katy and my dad, all left the apartment just to go do something, or just to get out of the space.

Vonne Solis  38:01  
Yeah.

Jackie L. Disch  38:02  
And my brother was with my mom, and he's the one that was with her when she took her last breath. So it's like she was waiting for certain people to not be there. Who knows why?

Vonne Solis  38:16  
Yeah.

Jackie L. Disch  38:16  
That happens. But even with Katy, hospice had been saying that, you know, it could be any time now. She was on hospice for two and a half weeks from the time she started hospice to the time she took her last breath. But she had had become unconscious during that time. And so there were a few days when she was in the unconscious state. So I was sitting there on the edge of the bed, and her breathing had become kind of irregular. All of a sudden, there's this pounding on the roof, and I had no idea what it was. Then I realized it was hail.

Vonne Solis  38:58  
Oh.

Jackie L. Disch  38:59  
But then this was July in Minnesota, which is hot and humid, and so the air conditioner was on. And you know how it's like, sweetie, I think it's raining because she loved the rain. She loved the sound and the smell, and she loved the gentle thunder, and this, this came out of nowhere. There was nothing on the radar. It was a beautiful sunny day. So I jump up off the bed, and I'm running between the windows opening them, because one of them is by the air conditioner. So then I can close that, and then I opened the other one to, you know, have the smell and the sound come in. And it was while I was doing that I was listening to the rain, but I was listening to her breathing, and I looked at her just as she took her last breath.

Vonne Solis  39:57  
Really.

Jackie L. Disch  39:57  
It was like - the look on your face just now, that was me. It was like this incredibly beautiful, but heartaching. 

Vonne Solis  40:11  
Yeah.

Jackie L. Disch  40:12  
You know.

Vonne Solis  40:13  
I can imagine.

Jackie L. Disch  40:13  
Just, mixed with things. But it's such a, it is such a beautiful process, given certain situations.

Vonne Solis  40:26  
I know. I'm just saying, but for the ones that it's like almost a sacredness, and it's sacred. And when my, the only one I got to do that with was my husband's brother and but his was an unexpected death. Even at, like, his early 80s, he went in the hospital for something and got sepsis and died. And that, and that wasn't supposed to happen. And we, and we had visited him, like the week before he got sepsis, and he was just in for something elective I think. Some elective surgery, and a week later, we were saying goodbye to him. And he was a very, very different man. He had he was shrunken into himself. He had lost himself. But anyway, when you when, when we got his other family, his his immediate family was there and stuff, but they left the room to let us say goodbye. And I was like, What do I? :Like what am I supposed to do? What am I supposed to say? You know? And so I just stroked his face. And I knew like his eyes were closed, but I and and we weren't particularly close either, and I'm not even sure he knew it was me. It doesn't matter. It was this ability to just send as much love as I could to send him on his way. And anyway, right after he died, we went home and we lived in another city on the island. And right after he died, it was about maybe three days later, and we went down to the car, and this everything electronic on that car that could be going and, you know, honking and lights flashing, and it was all doing that. And we're like, please, people. Stop messing with the electricity, the electronics. I've had lots and lots of visits from afterlife, but anyway. So I'm and I, we both immediately. Oh, that's his brother saying thank you. Just a nod to say thank you. Because they are aware, even if they're unconscious. I believe that they are very aware of, but maybe that unconsciousness is that place where they're visiting the other dimension, you know? The afterlife, and you know.

Vonne Solis  42:30  
It's so real. It's so real to me, because, listen, my daughter's, my daughter has, like, I have physical, I have physical calls from her on my AirTag now for since last July. So that's my phone. That's my phone. But she started, she started contacting us right within hours of her, of her passing. And by the way, on a hot July day, there was a double rainbow over her place, with no rain in sight that day. So listen, can they send a rainbow? I don't know. I don't know if they can create the rainbow. I don't know, but I can. I can tell you I believe in afterlife, and even though we didn't come to talk about that today, I have had profound, profound visits, symbols, signs. And now, just now the AirTag sits on my dresser, my night table, and she rings periodically. And she's even rang my husband's AirTag with a very low battery. You know, when she couldn't get me on mine, she rang his. So, helping them transition, I don't, I don't know, Jackie. I'll just ask you this. With Katy's transition, do you believe in in ongoing consciousness, like life after death?

Jackie L. Disch  43:40  
Yep. You know, my book encompasses many of the things that we're talking about right now.

Vonne Solis  43:45  
Okay, yeah.

Jackie L. Disch  43:46  
I've had many visits from Katy. I've had many signs. In fact, after, after, she took her last breath, and I had, you know, was with her for a little bit, and this storm had come out of nowhere, Katy either may have summoned that storm, or she became that storm.

Vonne Solis  44:09  
Oh, I just got chills when you said that. I literally have chills.

Jackie L. Disch  44:14  
When I walked to the front of the house to go outside and get some fresh air, across the street was the end of a rainbow to my side, and I couldn't see where, 

Vonne Solis  44:30  
Oh yeah.

Jackie L. Disch  44:30  
it was on our side, but I immediately thought of Katy.

Vonne Solis  44:34  
Yeah, you had the rainbow too.

Jackie L. Disch  44:37  
I had asked her, we had talked about things, and I had asked her to give me a sign. And so.

Vonne Solis  44:44  
Yes. I've actually read about people, couples that did it, and they were able to leave that sign. For the audience that does that does believe in this, the reason I brought it up is because, do you think that Jackie, that it helps you say goodbye at at their bedside or wherever it is. If you have that precious time to be with them as they're going and as you've said, Jackie, obviously not all desks are going to be like this. But do you think that makes it almost more precious is because you know they're just changing form and energy? They're just changing energy. Yeah.

Jackie L. Disch  45:20  
And this is true with your experience. Even if you aren't there when they take their last breath, they will communicate with you.

Vonne Solis  45:28  
They sure do. Oh yeah.

Jackie L. Disch  45:29  
If you're open to it, and Katy is with me all the time.

Vonne Solis  45:34  
Yeah.

Jackie L. Disch  45:34  
Sometimes I'm not paying attention to it, but...

Vonne Solis  45:37  
 Yes. Thank you.

Jackie L. Disch  45:38  
I feel her with me all the time.

Vonne Solis  45:40  
Yeah.

Jackie L. Disch  45:41  
I feel like my love for her has has grown even more, and that our bond has deepened. And part of that maybe because of the book, but maybe that's why I wrote the book. Because it, there I get signs from her. I hear her voice. Like she would appear to me in a dream, or that in-between place in the morning, just before you wake up, with times when the veil is a little less.

Vonne Solis  46:15  
Yes, yes.

Jackie L. Disch  46:16  
We even talked about, you know, getting that sign when when she was near. And I said, don't do anything spooky, like flick lights or pound on the wall. So we decided, like a gentle touch.

Vonne Solis  46:33  
Yeah.

Jackie L. Disch  46:34  
And I felt that.

Vonne Solis  46:36  
Yeah.

Jackie L. Disch  46:36  
I write about that in the book as well.

Vonne Solis  46:38  
Yeah.

Jackie L. Disch  46:38  
I felt that touch when she's near. So I totally believe that energy, whatever you want to call it, energy, spirit I sense.

Vonne Solis  46:43  
Yes.

Vonne Solis  46:45  
It's all of those things. It's all of those things because we're comprised folks of so much. Like anyway, and anyway, I've done a lot of different episodes on the on the podcast to do with energy, and, you know, all of this ongoing consciousness, and I'm sort of shifting a little bit to focus more on that as we go forward now because there is, they're even doing scientific research into proof of afterlife communication. And interestingly enough, the research has been done, actually, was out of a Canadian university 2023 was, I think it was 2023 was on on a cell phone. And so it made sense for me, because the more digitized we are and connected to technology, I think it's one of the easiest ways they're going to come through. So I had kind of, like, cars off limits you guys. Like, don't do anything to the car, but you know, any anything else is kind of that they really can manipulate energy. That's all I'm going to say. Because we're all the same energy. It's just they, they're at a different vibration. And you really, if anyone's interested in this there's so much stuff out there that you can search for yourself and adopt for yourself what feels comfortable based on maybe your own experiences with visits from someone in the afterlife that you love. Just you are, you're curious, and you want to learn more. And we don't have to tell me what you think, Jackie, like, we don't have to do anything really special about ourselves to receive these signs and messages. And I mean, they can't necessarily come and have a conversation with us. That hasn't happened with me. But I had dream, dream visits for years and years and years right up till probably maybe last year. But now I feel like with the AirTag, we found our way that it's easy for her. I just know I ring, and she has a very specific five to eight rings that the AirTag does not normally make. Okay, so because I, because I researched it, you know? And so I know it's her. But it took a few times to like, Is it her? Is it her? Yeah. And so once you believe, man, they have fun with it. And I say, just have a little bit of fun and and let them in. Because it really makes the whole grief thing, the whole grief experience, which I don't believe ever really goes away, to be honest, but anyway, it makes it more tolerable. I'll tell you that, especially in the early years. What do you think Jackie?

Jackie L. Disch  49:29  
Exactly.

Vonne Solis  49:30  
Yeah.

Jackie L. Disch  49:30  
It's, you know, that connection helped me learn to live a life without Katy.

Vonne Solis  49:40  
Okay.

Jackie L. Disch  49:41  
 So it has helped me in my grief. It has helped me in my life after her. That connection, that connection was there when we were together, and other people would comment on it. They could just see whatever we had was something that not everybody gets to have.

Vonne Solis  50:08  
You said you wrote about those experiences in your book as well. So some of those experiences and that connection. Because for me, always wanting to not have my daughter's death define me till I died, like in the in the pain and the the horrible suffering it caused. I was like, No, I can't do this to her. I need to be a better legacy for her. I need to learn what I need to learn. And I get that there are some people out there that don't, don't adopt the idea that we come here and learn lessons and, you know, take what you can from all of our hard experiences. And that's okay. For me, I needed to find those and that I chose to adopt, looking at it that way, but I had already had a metaphysical practice for 23 years when she died. So it was kind of hard to sort of go, Well, you know, you're going to forget everything you've learned. No. You know, so I just put that to work in my life. But, but it does actually. I believe this, that if we don't allow ourselves to find some good in all the bad, we are not really going to have a very great life. What do you think Jackie?

Jackie L. Disch  51:23  
Yeah, that's a fair assessment. Yeah. We might not be sometimes in a place that we're able to see it or feel it, but it's there.

Vonne Solis  51:33  
Yeah. So in your life going forward. It's almost six years later since your loss, yes? And the grief, it really does for me anyway, when I became a bereaved mom, I researched, and, you know, got every book I could on what I was going to expect from my journey, and that's where you have common themes. Parents felt the devastation all the same way, pretty much, no matter how their child died, and no matter the age, by the way. So I always appreciated people who left a legacy of of what they went through and what they did and wrote a book. I really appreciated that because we leave, you know, our legacy and what we've gone through, because books will never go away, unless you ask the publisher to stop printing them right? To help others. That's why I wrote, what I wrote. My books I wrote. But in what way would you say that you're, like this relationship. What you had, your whole experience and and how it's evolved, even with with Katy in a different form. But how has that changed your life and where are you at? What kind of hope do you would you want to leave others going through a recent loss? Maybe right now, they're caregiving, and they're with a terminal spouse or partner or other loved one that they can get through this? You're, like I said, coming up to the six year mark, and I really believe. I just know this to be true, that we don't want to say we have markers. But for example, I wanted to know what bereaved parents thought at 10 years and 15 and then 20 and at 20, I just decided, okay, well, there's not that many books now where I'm gonna go, Like, well, what was it like at 25 and 30? I've kind of found my way. But they were, they were button on, like, bang on with what they described that they went through at 10 years, which I won't get into. So but I sense that you have a message of hope and inspiration and I haven't been able to read your book, but in your book. So what would you like to share with others about that?

Jackie L. Disch  53:52  
Well one of the main things is about grief, about how we grieve. Because I believe our current society as it is doesn't do grief and death very well. It's like, you don't talk about it. You get a month off from work, and then, you know, you come back and you're done, and you should be doing all these other things.

Vonne Solis  54:21  
Yeah.

Jackie L. Disch  54:22  
Everybody has an opinion about what you should and shouldn't be doing, and the only opinion that matters is yours. One of the things that I really want to work toward is the understanding that we do live our grief. It is a part of us. It walks with us. It ages with us. It stays with us. And when you are able to embrace that to the best of your ability.

Vonne Solis  55:00  
Mm hmm.

Jackie L. Disch  55:01  
When you're able to live and honour that grief, whether it's as someone who's dying or after they've died, the more that you can kind of get into find your own self in your grief, then you're better able to go out into the world and do whatever it is you need to develop.

Vonne Solis  55:25  
I love what you said. That grief ages with us. I'm going to remember that. I love that because we are so, I don't know if it's conditioned or just we're too frightened, or it's a combination to, certainly bereaved parents, aren't. No, no, no, no one wants to hear about your kid dying. No, they might want the gory details, but beyond that, they don't know anything about that because, because it might happen to them. Nobody wants to really know about suicide, same reasons. And you know, and I'm kind of surprised though. Um, I've always thought, with the States ten times bigger than Canada, that there's been way more resources. I know for a fact there are way more resources. But interestingly, you still actually feel that culturally, people are kind of silent around grief?

Jackie L. Disch  56:24  
Yeah, we don't as a culture, at least in America, we don't do grief very well.

Vonne Solis  56:30  
Really.

Jackie L. Disch  56:31  
No. We don't but that like, just generally speaking through studying, like one of the things that happens is, once the casseroles stop coming, that you know, people just kind of vanish from your life. And part of that is because they're uncomfortable with death in general. Whether it's their own, or they're uncomfortable with that specific loss, or they're afraid of offending you or saying the wrong thing, or all of those little pieces kind of combined into you know, it's easier not to talk about it. It's easier to just kind of let that friendship go. So that's a real thing.

Vonne Solis  56:31  
I know.

Jackie L. Disch  57:14  
I think it's it's specific to America. I think it's the Anglo-saxon if I'm saying that, right. That whole Puritan type of thing.

Vonne Solis  57:44  
I agree. No one brought us casseroles, to be honest. And, yeah, and it was a really, I really, almost hate to say it, because I know my daughter's listening, but for me, and I know she, you know, doesn't she'll take anything that's human, not care about it. You know, I mean she's way beyond that. But it was really almost shameful, and we didn't even do an obituary in the newspaper. Because I couldn't lie about how she how she died. And and today I and for a few years, I read obituaries. That was when we had newspapers every day, and we actually had a newspaper delivered to the house. And I read them to be comforted when I saw, you know, wasn't happy, but when I saw somebody else young had died, like in the early 20s, I was like, I didn't feel so alone. And I went to support group and all this sort of stuff. But that goes to show you, you probably couldn't have published an obituary 21 years ago that said, you know, the real like died by suicide. And so we didn't even, I couldn't even write one. I just couldn't even do it. So so anyway, I don't know where we are culturally today, if you can say that, but my guess is, no. They might mention sudden loss, or a mental health or

Jackie L. Disch  59:07  
Suddenly.

Vonne Solis  59:08  
Yeah, like that. So we, I agree with you, we're probably on par the two countries. And I don't know about Europe, though. I really don't. But there are cultures that do embrace death, and you probably learned that as a death doula. There are, there are some cultures in the east and, you know, the subcontinent and stuff like that, that when they're open about it, and when they're allowed to have public, you know, like rituals of disposing of the body, cremation, whatever, like, it becomes a community event. And right away you don't feel isolated. So, but you know what, Jackie? I don't know how we're going to change that. I'm grateful that I've had you come on and you come on the show and talk about it, and you're now telling me, in 2026 it's still a problem. And so I don't know what's going to change it where we're not going to be so darn afraid as a society to talk about death, but I even know that it goes so far as to people not doing estate planning because they just don't want to think about something bad could happen to them. And something bad happens every day, folks. Just 'cause your ticket isn't up yet doesn't mean you're not going to you know, you're going to face someone dying in your life sooner or later, whether it's you or a loved one. And so we talk very openly about it in our family, totally openly. And I think you can even have a bit of fun with it.

Jackie L. Disch  1:00:41  
I just think that that things are changing.

Vonne Solis  1:00:44  
Do you?

Jackie L. Disch  1:00:45  
And we do have death doulas. That was like, still kind of (undecipherable).

Vonne Solis  1:00:50  
That's cool. If you want, if you wanted a death doula, is there, like an association in the United States that you can call up and find one in your area?

Jackie L. Disch  1:00:59  
There is. There's, I can't remember what it's called.

Vonne Solis  1:01:02  
 No, it's okay. People can look it up, though, how to find a death doula. And that would be for someone who's doing pal is that for anyone doing palliative at home? Could you have them if they chose it in the hospital, to have your own private death doula in a hospital?

Jackie L. Disch  1:01:17  
As far as I know, I think that would probably be up to the individual hospitals, but I'm pretty sure that you can be wherever it is that person is at the end of their life. And it doesn't have to be in a private home.

Vonne Solis  1:01:34  
Very cool. And you're right. That's one way that we can sort of like we're gonna go! And let me tell you. I would rather know what my loved ones want or what I want them for me at my end, if we're blessed to have time to plan for that. But meantime, we've made it pretty clear vocally and in our wills anyway, who wants what, and, you know, etc, etc,. Where you want to where you want your last remains. Do you want a service? Don't you want a service? Like it's actually really interesting, because, you know, you can also think about your own legacy, what you're leaving behind, what's important to you, etc, etc. So I just think these conversations are so, so so important, and it feels a lot better knowing, I'm sure you would agree, Jackie, than guessing what someone wants when they die unexpectedly. The guilt associated with that man when you're cleaning out stuff, even if it's your aging parents and stuff was important to them and not to you? And you might have to throw it out? Like that, can give you guilt for years, right? Yeah, I'm speaking from personal experience here.

Jackie L. Disch  1:02:58  
I don't know if I can,  I have an example. One of the things that I, I'm a huge advocate for is, it's a living will or healthcare directive. So that if something happens to you and you're not able to speak for yourself, what do you want?

Vonne Solis  1:03:15  
Yes, yes.

Jackie L. Disch  1:03:16  
Do you want to be kept alive by artificial means?

Vonne Solis  1:03:19  
Yes.

Jackie L. Disch  1:03:20  
And communicate that. Have it in writing, documented legally, and talk about it with the person or people that you want...

Vonne Solis  1:03:30  
Yes, absolutely.

Jackie L. Disch  1:03:32  
to know that stuff.

Vonne Solis  1:03:33  
Yeah.

Jackie L. Disch  1:03:33  
Because for me, that that's just I would, I would hate to leave anyone in that position.

Vonne Solis  1:03:42  
Yeah, guessing. And not only, not only that. But but I read a book by a palliative doctor in New York, and she was saying, like, people fight about stuff like that. Adult children fight about making decisions, and you're lying there. And the one thing she said in this book that, her name's Dr Cynthia Pan, P, A, N. She's a palliative doctor in New York, and she was saying in a lot of the cases. So she goes around and does the hospice in New York City, okay to, like, exactly what you would have had hospice come and visit and do her maybe weekly? I don't know if they do daily, but you know, any, however many visits, depending on where the patient, how is, how close they are to trans transitioning. And she said a lot of them were really afraid to express their wishes - people that could talk, dying. They would tell her and go, Well, they I really would. I, you know, I won't really want this, but I don't really want to say anything, because they might fight or I know they want something different, and in many, many cases, what the adult children or spouses or loved ones wanted was for them to fight, fight, fight, don't die. And they were like, they're like, I'm done. I'm out of here. Those are the kinds of things people, audience, just to think about. That when there's no communication, a respect for what other people that what the dying want. And what I heard from you, Jackie, straight out of the gate from this, was your absolute number one desire to respect and honour what Katy wanted, no matter what you wanted for her, which may or may not have been different. And that was a huge piece I just wanted to circle back to and and really point out audience is that is incredibly honourable, and that's the way it should be is get out of your own way and just support. Just support what that person dying needs. And to round this out, so this episode is going to be an awful lot about caregiving, metaphysics, afterlife and and then.

Jackie L. Disch  1:05:45  
It's a little bit of everything.

Vonne Solis  1:05:46  
It is. And then to round this out, I'm going to ask you how people can get your books, books, because they might want the poetry as well, but certainly you're, you're Losing Katy book. But I did want to just ask, if you wouldn't, would want to just give some tips on how people can support the bereaved from your experience. Because you do write about it and saying the most helpful people don't demand an expiration date, and you know, they keep showing up long after the casseroles stop. So what are your tips for people supporting the bereaved and long-term? Like, Katy's not coming back. My girl's not coming back, you know? And it's like you don't want to, not have to say their name. We want, we want people to remember them. So anyway, what tips do you have?

Jackie L. Disch  1:06:39  
Talk to me about Katy. Whether it's in her last days or our life together. I think the one of the main things is, especially if it's a new death, new grief, a lot of times that person may not know what they want or what they need. And so asking, What do you need from me? What can I do for you? That itself can be kind of overwhelming.

Vonne Solis  1:07:11  
Yep.

Jackie L. Disch  1:07:12  
But you can ask because some people may be able to answer. Not everybody is the same. Mostly, it's something even as, Would you like me to come sit with you? We don't have to talk. Do you want to take a short walk? Or, you know, if you want to talk about your loved one, or if you want to talk about sports, but can I just come and sit with you? Do you want me to do that? And not force yourself or your beliefs on to that person. Like it's been two years, you should be moving on and getting together with somebody else. And also to know that even with the best intentions, you might say something that is wrong for that person, and that's okay. It's not the end of the world. That's another thing about our society, I believe, is we don't do emotions and we don't do not being okay with mistakes. And you know.

Vonne Solis  1:08:24  
Yep.

Jackie L. Disch  1:08:24  
It's like this acceptance. Just meeting that person in a place of acceptance and love. And again, the more that you can come from yourself versus being focussed on somebody else, the more authentic and genuine and strong your communication will be. 

Vonne Solis  1:08:47  
That's absolutely great what what you just said. So for those of you, if you're watching this, caregiving and expecting a loved one to die, you're recently bereaved. It does take time. I have yet like to figure out what you need and want, and that's not anybody else's job, by the way, to figure that out for you, not even a family member's. That's just for you to figure out. And even family members are the worst support for each other. So I would add, don't expect support where you're not going to get it. And by the way, that can cause a huge rift in families, if you're expecting a spouse or, well, I don't know, siblings. If you've lost a child, and you might even be expecting your parents, the grandparents, to act and, you know, grieve a certain way. We can't have that expectation for other people, how they're going to show their grief. We're all feeling the loss, the sorrow, the shock, the trauma, the pain, the suffering. We're all feeling that and sometimes, you know, depending on who it is, we can be a little bit possessive about our grief and go, Well, you didn't know them the same way. You weren't the parent or whatever. And if we can just step back and have a little bit of grace, you know, as much as we can.

Vonne Solis  1:10:12  
And I'll tell you, the one thing people do develop right away, right away after a very painful loss, is compassion and empathy and usually unconditional love. These are things that we inherently I certainly, I certainly had it just blow up in my life. And you can actually feel love for a like you were mentioning it earlier in the episode Jackie. You can feel a different but more profound love for that person when they've gone. And it so what I'm saying is like birth, death also transports us to a different place emotionally, and that's our personal, private experience. But when we don't have support, it is such a lonely, painful journey. It's one of the reasons I wrote my books and then I developed the podcast, because I wanted a platform so I could say whatever the heck I wanted to say that I just was not allowed to say publicly, socially. At my places of employment.

Vonne Solis  1:11:17  
You know, I actually had to go back to work after Janaya died, and I went back about maybe four years into an office setting. And do you know, it took another two years and a change of jobs before I could put her picture up in my little cubicle? Yeah, right? Just goes to show you, I wasn't comfortable at the one place, and it was just but I was mixed up too. So the other thing I just want to say before we close this out at the top of the hour and talk about your book here, where people can get it, is that we can also put an expectation on those around us, and our environment and our and what's happening, you know, socially for us, when we think that's what's happening and it's not. So the other the other piece, and Jackie, you may want to just, you know, comment on this too briefly, is sometimes the support is there and we can't see it. We don't recognize it as support. Like I actually had support that I was sure I didn't. But I was so hurt that I couldn't see that. So just think about that. If you're in this, in this situation, and for those trying to support, just keep trying. And I hated it when people said, Call me if you need anything. Are you kidding? I didn't make phone calls for like, four years or something. You know? I was so, too scared to make a phone call. So really, the best thing is, I have always felt, going back to those early years, it'd be awesome if you're a friend or a family member with you can say, I would really love to support you, and this is what I could do for you, and only be honest about what you think it is you can do. And it might be going for a walk, it might be dropping off a meal, it might be babysitting a kid for an afternoon. Whatever it is, but be really specific and and offer it. Offer it so you don't feel guilty, uh, about taking on too much or feeling you need to say yes to something you really can't be there for. And one of the greatest things someone ever did for me, and she never turned out to be a long-term friend, she was actually a groomer of our little doggy. And one day she she took me for afternoon tea. High high tea. This was the greatest thing, because, you know, I was broken but I still loved my tea. You know?

Vonne Solis  1:13:44  
Anyway. So just, just some great tips there. Did you have anything else, Jackie, where we before we turn to again, where people can get your book? Is there anything you wanted to share with the audience that we didn't get to?

Jackie L. Disch  1:13:58  
Just kind of on top of what you were saying. Another thing that you can do is also to say, I don't know what to say or do, but I'm here for you, or I'm here with you.

Vonne Solis  1:14:13  
 Yeah, yeah.

Jackie L. Disch  1:14:15  
And if you're the one who lost somebody, you say, I don't know what I want or what I need, but just be with me. And being with me. It can be, it doesn't have to be physically in the same room. It can be you sending them your love, or whatever. That's another thing. I'm sending you my love. That could be a triggering,

Vonne Solis  1:14:42  
Oh.

Jackie L. Disch  1:14:43  
thing sometimes for someone who's who's lost a loved one. So you really don't know for any given person what's going to be a good thing or comforthing thing and what's going to be you know.

Vonne Solis  1:15:01  
Yeah.

Jackie L. Disch  1:15:02  
Not the best thing.

Vonne Solis  1:15:03  
Did you lose, I don't, I don't want to put you on the spot here, but did you lose any friends in your spousal grief? Or has people rally? Did people rally around you and you had a tight community? Because I sure lost friends. I didn't have many to begin with, but I lost, I guess the people, one would say, Well, maybe they weren't really friends, but they were really friends in another time in my life. But they just couldn't be friends in my grief and my bereavement. So did that happen to you at all?

Jackie L. Disch  1:15:28  
I've never been a hugely social person where I need a lot of interaction and a lot of people in my life. I did feel, I think it was like month three to four. Sometime around there, I did feel a little bit like, Where did everybody go? But at the same time, I didn't want people, you know? I mean, that's another good thing about Covid, is it gave me the space to be with my grief without thinking that people are going to come knocking on the door at any given point in time. Because they couldn't because of Covid.

Vonne Solis  1:16:12  
Oh, yeah.

Jackie L. Disch  1:16:15  
So Covid is just a whole nother beast.

Vonne Solis  1:16:18  
Yeah, because it didn't just end in 2020. Like when things started to opening, open up in 21 and stuff, and even into 22 you know what people lost? And I live in a wonderful, beautiful, oceanside city. And you know what? Because of that whole don't touch anyone. Don't touch anyone. Keep your space. People have lost the ability to look you straight in the eye and say, Hey, hi on their our sea walk. You know, it was really interesting. We've only found at different periods when we go, like, say, the morning, and it's only the locals, they're back to kind of good morning, good morning like that. But in general, the the distancing happened not physically, but mentally and emotionally too. And it was like, you can't, you can't get through and it was everybody in their own bubble still, and we, I don't think we've recovered from that. I do not think we have recovered from that. And I don't really like it, because I'm a, I didn't have a lot of friends, but I'm a super social person, okay? But I didn't need a lot of people around me, like you. How has your life changed? What are you doing now?

Jackie L. Disch  1:17:20  
I did actually end up moving about two and a half years ago. I live up on the North Shore. Katy and I had talked about maybe retiring up here because we lived in Minneapolis, which is a pretty big city, and up here is not. It's like 30 minutes either way, if you want to get to a little bigger store or a good restaurant.

Vonne Solis  1:17:46  
So are you sort of semi-rural?

Speaker 1  1:17:48  
I'm like 90 miles from Canada.

Vonne Solis  1:17:51  
So we're the hinterland for you, I suppose? But you're on the north shore of Lake Superior, right?

Jackie L. Disch  1:18:00  
It's a little city of 1800 people.

Vonne Solis  1:18:05  
Oh, well I don't call that a city.

Jackie L. Disch  1:18:07  
I know. I don't know how they got the city. It's really is a city.

Vonne Solis  1:18:12  
Yeah, yeah yeah.

Jackie L. Disch  1:18:14  
To me, it's like ah ah.

Vonne Solis  1:18:16  
Do you like it?

Jackie L. Disch  1:18:18  
I do.

Vonne Solis  1:18:19  
Just the scenery, the geography. Is it feeding your soul?

Jackie L. Disch  1:18:23  
Oh, yeah. It's like, it's like, Darn, I have to drive an hour to get to Duluth so I can go to some of the big box stores. And it's a beautiful drive, you know? And I get to, I get to spend an hour on a beautiful drive, as opposed to in Minneapolis, spending an hour in traffic going from one

Vonne Solis  1:18:43  
No.

Jackie L. Disch  1:18:44  
inner city to the next. So, I do like that.

Vonne Solis  1:18:48  
Okay, that's good. Alright. Well, let's close this off. Do you want to explain how people can get your book?

Jackie L. Disch  1:18:54  
The current book, Losing Katy is both ebook, and also in print. You can also get it, it's available through kobo.com. It's on Amazon. It's on bookshop.org.

Vonne Solis  1:19:09  
Yeah, okay.

Jackie L. Disch  1:19:10  
You can get it on a lot of the main online places. I have a link to all of them on the home page of my website.

Vonne Solis  1:19:20  
And so your your poetry, those books, they are available. If people want those books, are those ones available in paperback that that can be shipped out, and you handle that part of it?

Jackie L. Disch  1:19:31  
Yes. They're only in print, and they're available through Amazon or directly through me. There's a contact form on my website.

Vonne Solis  1:19:41  
Okay.

Jackie L. Disch  1:19:42  
You can just let me know what you want. Don't send me any financial information at that point, just let me know what you want. And we'll talk. 

Vonne Solis  1:19:51  
Jackie's website is jackieldisch.com. I will have the link to it in the show notes here, Jackie to make it easy for people to to check out your resources. So thank you so much for coming on. It's been fun. And it was a wonderful, heartwarming, informative, you know, caring and beautiful conversation with you.

Jackie L. Disch  1:20:13  
Thank you for having me. I enjoyed my time here.