Franchise Friday - Episode 209 with Michelle Holliman of Pigtails and Crewcuts

Michelle Holliman, Vice President of Franchise Development

futureoffranchising.com/podcast/ep-209

Michelle Holliman’s work within the franchising industry dates back to 1997.  Throughout that time, she built experience by working for the parent companies of well-known brands such as Heavenly Ham, HoneyBaked Ham, Moe’s Southwest Grill, Planet Smoothie and P.J.’s Coffee. Michelle served as the Director of Franchise Development for Pigtails & Crewcuts before being promoted to Vice President of Franchise Development in 2017. In this role, Michelle evaluates prospective franchisees to help them determine if owning a Pigtails & Crewcuts salon is the right investment choice.

Our Values
At Pigtails & Crewcuts, we strive to be honest, fair, and be a business known for its integrity, and we seek owners who value the same things. We have a wealth of knowledge within our franchise leadership team, as well as seasoned owners eager to share their experience with the newest members of our franchise family. We’re all in this together to help you achieve success.
When Wade Brannon’s children visited Pigtails & Crewcuts, they immediately fell in love. Brannon had retired from a successful career in the franchise industry a few years before so he could spend more time with his family but saw great potential for the concept to grow with the increasing demand for services that cater to families with young children. He also saw it as a great opportunity to create a business that would allow its franchisees the family time that seemed to be missing from many existing opportunities and knew there would be owners who desired the same thing. Brannon was ready to head back to work in the franchise industry, and as fate would have it, the original owner of Pigtails & Crewcuts was ready to sell the salon.

What We Believe In
In addition to offering the best work-life balance possible, we seek to be honest, fair, and to be a business known for its integrity, and we want owners who value the same things. Being a part of the local community is also important to us, and we encourage our owners to get involved where they are. We also encourage philanthropy, either locally or nationally, to contribute and make a positive impact in the lives of others.

We’re a family and we’re all in this together. If you’re ready to join a fun franchise that will give you the support you need to be successful, we’re ready to talk to you!

First Haircut Package
Your child’s first haircut is an important milestone! Our first haircut package includes a souvenir card with your child’s name, the date of the haircut, a lock of h  air and a photo to take home, so your family can look back on this day and smile.

Franchise Friday, where you can watch or listen as we explore franchising, entrepreneurship, and small business ownership, speaking with the franchise industry thought leaders and subject matter experts that shape the Future Of Franchising. #FranchiseFriday – For more about our podcast, visit our website: https://futureoffranchising.com/ Produced by Franchise Source Brands International and The Entrepreneur’s Source.

Transcript

Unknown: 0:13

Hello everyone was a pang here with the entrepreneur source. So happy to be here with Michelle Holloman, who is with pigtails and crewcuts. Welcome, Michelle. So glad to have you. Hi. Hi, Melissa. Thank you for having me. I'm so excited. Absolutely. I'm looking forward to our conversation today. So, listen, you've been at pigtails and crewcuts. For a while I basically since it started franchising, so definitely want to dive into all of that. And you and I have been working together now for several years. I know, pigtails. And crewcuts has been a member with the entrepreneur source. And it's been fantastic, lovely working with you and your team. We'll get into because we want to know, you know, the team that you've built and the culture at pigtails and crewcuts. But before we jump into all that, do you mind giving a little bit of background on how you got to pigtails and crewcuts? And yeah, where you're this little story? Sure, sure. So after college, I moved to Atlanta and started working for a company called heavenly ham. And it's a national franchise supply chain, you know, specialty ham, specialty meats. The principle of that company, one of the principles was wait, Brandon, who is now the owner of pigtails and crewcuts. So, once HoneyBaked Ham acquired pigtail, or I'm sorry, HoneyBaked, acquired heavenly ham, way, kind of semi retired and I continued working with him HoneyBaked Ham, and then I kind of moved to other other franchise companies along the way. And then Wade, met the original founder of pigtails and crewcuts, back in 2003. And she approached him and asked about, hey, I want to franchise this. And he acquired pigtails and crewcuts. And then he called me and he was like, Hey, let's get the band band back together. Let's start working together. So I have been with pigtails and crewcuts. Since day one, this February will be probably I think, 18 years. So wait, and I have been working together for over 25 years. And it's been great. He's a great boss. He's a great leader. And so yeah, I've been with pigtails and crewcuts. Since day one, I find that that in and of itself is so so exciting and fun, because I it is sometimes rare to find someone who's been with a brand for so long, and especially since its inception. So what was it about? I mean, you'd worked with Wade for a year, like several years prior to what wasn't built in crewcuts, that you were like, You know what, I am really excited about this. And then what is it that has kept you going over the past 18 years and well, I love franchising. Franchising is just, it's the great model, you know, meaning it's something that and I've done franchising, I've worked with franchise companies that, you know, HoneyBaked Ham, it's a large franchise company, and then, you know, heavily Ham was a little smaller, and pigtails and crewcuts. And so it's that, that emerging brand that's so exciting. But it's also our brand is very unique, because it's a kid's hair salon franchise. And so the industry isn't large, but it's fragmented, it's recession resilient, we've gone through a recession in 2007, and then a pandemic, as well. So and we're still surviving, we're still showing great numbers, we're really having a great time. But also, it's, it's about the kids, you know, pigtails and crewcuts. It is a kid's hair salon, that you walk into, not something that wasn't around when I was younger. And when a kid walks in, they see the brightly colored walls, those themed car chairs, that we want to make a haircut fun and memorable. And it's not just for the kids, but it's for the parents too. We want to make sure that the experience is top notch. And so that is something that is always excited me because one I like I enjoy kids and I tell people you know, to work, you know, in this environment, whatever you have to kind of like get it's not just your own kids, but you got to like kids, and also it's just people spend money on their kids, and everybody needs a haircut. So it's something that's just always welcomed in every community in every market and so we're seeing great results and we're really I'm really excited and I just love the people that I work with and just the brand as a whole on that. No, I was looking at just some of the different franchisee stories and testimonials, and even Wade story and of how we came to acquire pigtails and crewcuts and one little red A thread that I did see several times throughout was a lot of these franchisees said, the support was phenomenal. And like this, the culture of the the franchise leadership team really kind of drew me in. That's what kept me there. That's what keeps me going. So, you know, kind of off of what you're saying there as well, like, how did you guys build that culture? From the beginning? Because that isn't something that's like you do overnight, and it's not something you can really put a system in place for. So yeah, how did that get there? So absolutely. So our CEO, President way, Brandon, he, he always tells everybody, we're not in the hair cut, children's hair cut industry, we're in the franchise support industry, we are a franchise support company. And our job is to support our franchisees and by creating a great culture, by managing people, by leading being leaders by caring, you know, part of our core values, is making sure that you create a great environment, you know, you respect we work with integrity, and respect. And so that is something that we emphasize a lot when we when we evaluate prospective franchisees, when those prospective franchisees hire at at the local level, you know, because people want to work for good people, people want to work for leaders, people want to work for people that care about them. And by creating that culture, then it will, it will, you'll have a ripple effect, and people will want to work for you. And so that's we I'm very excited. And I'm I'm proud of the team that we've created here in Atlanta, but it also reflects based on, you know, in the 23 states that we have locations, and that's you know, that's it's huge for us, as is the culture, I again, I love it, because I think too, it's something with brands at really all stages, it's something that you we say a lot like culture is kind of a big buzzword these days, and finding it but to actually bring in franchisees who do, like, match the culture that you've built is not as easy as it sounds. So were there any things that happened over the over the past years, as you've built this from like, the ground up, we were like, this is something we did that really, like kind of helped. And these are some things we did that did not help. And now we know. You always try to learn from them. You know, I mean, we have, you know, we have grown organically over time, we have over 70 locations in 23 states. And some people were like, wow, that's not a lot of units. But we're also want to make sure that we find the right people that we understand what their goals and objectives are. So there are certain times where we had to tell people, you know, you just didn't fit our culture, you just didn't fit. And that's okay. You know, I mean, and maybe it's better for them, maybe it's better for us. But there are certain things that we look for. And that's what's been so great about working with T yes to is just that collaboration with the coaches, and having the understanding, and you guys doing the DiSC Profile recognizing ahead of time so that we know how the conversations going to roll and everything. So there are certain things that we along the way we have recognized, we could always improve on you know, every company, if you're not self reflecting as a company and finding ways to improve, then you're you know, you need to do that. Right. So there are certain things that we have always improve. I don't know if I answered your question. No, it's just good to see like, I think an important piece is that saying no? To people because it can feel in the moment? Of course, you you want to grow the brand. You have someone who's saying, Yes, I will. I'm gonna pay you the franchise fee. I'm ready to invest. Like I love it. And it's hard to say no to that. But when you look long term, you're like, No, no, it really is gonna be because also you look down the road. And yes, you want to have these great stories from your franchisees they're going to be validating with other potential franchisees. So it's just that community that you're building that is really important long term. It is cliche because we I mean, we're a family. And some people say, Oh, that's cliche, but we truly are. And I think it stems from the very beginning. And there's that respect there. And that is why our validations great, you know, when when I whenever I speak to a client from CES or whatever, I always want them to talk to our franchise owners. I want to I want to put them in touch because the validation is there. The peer to peer support in our system is enormous. I mean, I love the the fact that they talk constantly and they are constantly bouncing ideas, commending each other for great achieved That's, you know, lifting each other up when they're just having a bad day because they're a small business owner. So it's the norm. But that peer to peer support is, by far the best I've ever seen in all the years of franchise, that's a big statement. And that's something that as you're talking, I'm thinking about people who you know, the clients that we're working with, oftentimes, it's the first time they're going into business ownership there. So there's gonna be a lot of fear. And there's also a lot of misconceptions where I think that a lot of these people until they talk to you until they talk to the franchisees, they don't understand that this isn't just a business model. And you know, it's specifically in the child, children's hair cut industry. Yes, that's what it is on the surface. But underneath, it's the community, it that peer to peer support. It's the support from the franchise leadership. And there's this whole culture and story behind the brand, that I think people when they look at franchising, never realize. Right, right, absolutely. I mean, we just did a survey, an entire assistant survey with our franchise owners, you always want to be in touch with how everybody feels and what they, you know, give them a guideline of where we're going in the future. And we just had our national franchise conference. So we all got together. And that was our first one since the pandemic. So we were all very happy to be together just like the one in Savannah with T S. And so it's always great to understand, you know, how they feel what's going on. And, again, so for fun, how can we improve to help you again, our job is franchise support. And if we're not supporting them to the level of success, then we are not successful. 100%. And I think it's clear that you guys, pigtails and crewcuts. And just, you know, you and Wade, and the whole team have had that since the beginning. And that's another reason why we love working with you guys. Because we're connected in that way of wanting to bring in the right people and find that the person who's going to be right for you, and that your brand is going to be right for them. And that makes all the difference. And it does lead to success just under is not always on the same timeline. You know, but it does at the end of the day. Absolutely. I mean, I've, I've found such great relationships with all of the T 's coaches, I mean, just having that conference in Savannah and putting a face with the name and you know, just being able to just have conversations face to face, it was so much fun. The speed networking was great. And then I've made we've made some connections, and I have made connections after the fact. And I'm very pleased, and we've just had a great relationship, I am very glad to hear that. And you know, it's exactly the same on our side as well, because that's who we're looking for to within the you know, was just within the fringes and communities, you want to find those people who are connected on that level. And at the end of the day, it is, you know, we always say it's at the client is the focus. And so if we can help them, maybe they move forward with the friendship, and maybe they don't, but at the end of the day, it doesn't, it doesn't matter. No, and that's exactly why we chose T Yes, I mean, you T 's fit our core values, you know, work with integrity and respect, build positive relationships, our job is to make sure that, you know, educate the clients, educate them to know what they're getting into. Because if it's not a good fit, that's okay. But having that conversation, and I feel like the collaboration between Te ES and US has been positive, because we're on the same page, we have the same goal. And by talking to each coach and their client, and making sure that we there are times where I just have a conversation with their client. And they were like, you know, I love your concept, but it's not right for me. And I'm like, I understand, it has to be the right investment, we have to be the right people that they want to get involved with. And vice versa. And if it's not, we just made a new friend in Missouri or something. It was not about, you know, just grew up. We want to grow the brand, but it's not always just about units. It has to be right, which again goes back to our culture and why we have such a positive environment. And so working with every T S coach, talking to them collaborating with them, those three C's, that's huge, you know, and so I respect and commend to Yes, because that's really what's connecting us and having a better understanding and growing and working with more coaches along the way. So it's been positive for sure. Thank you. And yes, I can agree wholeheartedly. And it is interesting to when you look at what the coaches do, a lot of times they've been in their client's shoes, so they also have that and then they really truly Do you want to have that the clients, they have the client's best interest at heart. So it's, you know, the, the more we can collaborate, the better. And that's really what's important. Not at the end of the day, you know, did my, it's that trust factor, you know, I mean, I'm trusting you guys to bring clients to even to me just to talk about our brand and just having that awareness that we're out there. And those, you know, the clients are trusting us to have the conversation of educating them about what franchising is all about, a lot of people don't have experience in franchising, and they need to know what they're getting into. Because I love the idea of someone wanting to build something, you know, yes, we give them the footprint, but building, it's the American dream, right? You know, you want to build something for yourself, and create that portfolio and that, you know, that additional asset for your family. And we have some that have zero experience in franchising, and then we have multi brand multi unit operators to that understand it, they just want to diversify a little bit, and grow into something else. So we have all different types of ownership structures in our, in our business, which is great, you know, it's, it's about, again, talking to them and understanding what their goal and objectives that you have, even within your I mean, franchising in itself is so diverse on one level, you know, you have so many different industries and brands and people who are going into it with so many different backgrounds, but love that even within the just this one brand pick peaches and crew cuts, you do have that so much diversity, and I'm sure you can speak a little more to this, you know, who your owners are, and where they're coming from and what they're like, but also and how you're finding them and finding that kind of right fit, as we call it. Um, but I'm sure they come from so many different backgrounds as well. You know, it's not just someone who has that haircut experience or someone who has worked with kids in the past, there's, I'm sure a red thread, but which if you want to talk about that a little bit in terms of your grandchildren. Well, it's funny, because we always thought, you know, when I first started here, I was like, I don't even know anything about the hair industry, other than it's a $70 billion industry with the Children's segment of $7 billion. That's a lot. You're like, Okay, people get haircuts. Regardless, you know, it's there, it's always gonna be present. And so surprisingly, none of our franchise owners are hair stylists. Crazy, right? It's not that we're discriminating them. It's just that we are finding people with business backgrounds, and just ret ready to do something different in whether they were in the corporate world, whether they were the stay at home mom that's ready to get back into the workforce. And over the years, we have seen a shift of less full time operators, more semi absentee, because this business kind of lends itself to being able to have a semi absentee ownership structure, we have some that are the key holders, they want to be there day in and day out, that is fine. If that's what you want to do, that's great. But then there are some that are looking at the big picture, owning multiple units. And so the way we are looking, you know, aren't our target audience and who we're looking for, it's just people that can manage people that can lead be leaders, you know, again, going back to the culture, creating that culture working with, you know, how to handle hourly employees, how to handle HR scenarios, how to handle parents that get upset, because they don't like the haircut that that child just received, you know, it's just really educating them training them. And, you know, again, as I said, it used to be a very female oriented business. Now, we're seeing, you know, a lot of couples, a lot of males coming in wanting to do something different in diversifying their portfolio, you know, different multi brand operators, that's it recognize it's a low investment with a high potential return. And it's also giving back to the community, you know, you were talking about providing a service for children that may or may not enjoy getting a haircut, as silly as it sounds, it's like it's a haircut or whatever. It could be seriously traumatic for a child to get a haircut. And so a lot of our training a lot of our discussions with our franchisees and their discussion and training with their employees is how to handle children that are afraid or may have special needs and we really take pride in accepting all kids all you know ethnicities, and identifying if okay, if someone has special needs, how can we make this experience? Great for them and We have so many stories in in our system. And when we had a story about our franchise owner in Tennessee, the mom would bring in her child who had special needs, would bring in her child and brought her brought him in four times, to not even get a haircut, but just to get familiarized with the, the environment, and wanted to make sure that they were okay. And on the fifth visit, just to just to see the environment, he was like, I'm ready to get my hair cut. And mom was crying franchise owner was crying, stylists are crying, we were all like, this is such a big deal that we don't think about what this means to that family to that child, just something as simple as getting a haircut. So it really is, you know, we have a lot of feel good stories out there about that. Because something that just as simple as a haircut could mean just a huge, you know, momentous occasion for that particular family. I got some chills, I love because, again, this goes back to like what I was saying before about when you think about franchising, you only think about certain things. And I've said it before, to where I think sometimes brands can focus so much on the income piece of it, like, what is this franchise going to do for you, it's going to give you XYZ income, or you have this possibility, this potential, and that's really what we focus on. But what I love about what you just talked about is there's so much more to it than that to vote like to focus on as to what this franchise and this brand, this one in particular. But also in general, when you're thinking about franchising, what it can do for individuals, what it can do for community, and like at the same time that the franchise owner is creating, you know, we talked about income, lifestyle, wealth and equity, but they're creating wealth and equity for their family, but also they're doing all these other things within the community that's maybe not always talked about as much as it should be. That should be right. Well, and it provides that work life balance as well, we all always talk about work life balance, how important it is. And, you know, it is exactly I mean, I talked to people about ROIs, you know, and I'm like, you know, I understand you owe everybody what they're gonna invest in something they want to see an ROI. It's fair, but it's something always bigger too, you know, you don't necessarily have to be at pigtails and crewcuts the salon day to day. And but you know, it's really about the giving back. And that's another core value is you know, giving back to your community, whether it's something as simple as giving that great haircut and understanding that child's need to we have another franchise owner that grew up in foster care, she gives every foster kid in the foster care system, a free haircut, she doesn't care, she's like, this is something that I am doing as giving back it's not about monetary ROI, it is about emotionally feeling good. And making sure that that I care, you know, and so, a lot of that those feel good stories or, you know, in existence, but it's also a business, the ROI, we will not argue with the fact that the ROI is very important. And I think too, when you look at, you know, people who are coming to look at the business looking to possibly become a franchisee, and invest. Yes, they're definitely brought in by there's certain things that resonate with different people. And I think to once I can see, okay, this is gonna be a profitable, profitable business, or I have the potential to make it profitable, then I feel like it's those other things that kind of fill it out. So they say, you know, what, it's pigtails and crewcuts. That's the right one for me. And because of the culture and the support, and the giving back, you know, with these other things that kind of make it real for them as I mean, otherwise, they can really go into any business. Why is it that they're choosing yours? Right? Well, it's, again, it goes back to that having those conversations, you know, I can't convince someone that doesn't want to do a kid's hair salon, because they don't like kids. And but they really have their heart set on doing a restaurant, you know, that's their personal choice. And that's fine. It's, it's, it's when we when they experience when I tell I encourage all of them, go to a salon, if you don't have one nearby you let me know come to Atlanta, when you know you come and visit us or whatever, we'll take you to a salon because when you when you walk in and you see it, you feel it, you understand what the model is. It's not just a hair salon that you're walking into. It's just the the experience as a whole. You know, we want to make sure that you understand and willing to be open minded to it. And so, again, it's not something that has been around forever. I didn't have it growing up. And when you see it, you're like, Okay, people enjoy spending time experiences and money on their children. You know, that's something as a parent, people do, they spend money on their education, they spend money on their experiences. And so an unknown there, you know, the well being. And so it really, really is about the experience and visiting that we. And then also understanding the support that they get, you know, part, that's the great thing about franchising is, if you don't have the franchise support behind you, then why can I open this up as a mom and pop? Why can it be, you know, Melissa's hair salon? Well, because you have to think of everything that's entailed. And we've done that for them. And we've made it easier for them, and understanding how to get to the SEC to the next level, so that they're thinking, Oh, I could do multiple units, I could, I could really make this an empire. If I, you know, follow the marketing guidelines and follow all of the things and we get simple, you know, make it sound simple, but we find those personalities and we regret we recognize immediately, you know, hey, I think this would be a good fit, and the markets a good fit. So that's part of our dialogue with with clients and prospective owners. Yeah, 100%, looking at all, all the different pieces. And also, you know, you've mentioned experience, so many times where this whole kind of journey that someone goes on to invest in a franchise, it's, again, you could simplify and say, you know, you just, they're interested in the franchise, you go through the process, and then you sign, but it does have to be an experience for that potential franchisee as well. And if you're not building that, then you're probably missing out on people, because they're not fully understanding what the brand is about. So if you aren't kind of like pushing people through and not creating an experience for them, then yeah, they're not really going to ever connect with you, well, they got to feel like they're part of something, you know, they have to connect with you. And your coaches, they have to trust them, then they have them, they have to connect with the franchisor. And if they don't feel that connection, then it's not right for either party. And so part of that along the way, is is all about education, you know, you got to make sure that they understand what they're getting into what an FTD is all about making sure that they understand, you know, what their investment is going towards what that sort of what the expectation is on both sides. And that's part of my conversation with them is this is what you can expect from me. And this is what we expect from you. And if we are good with that, then we can have a successful partnership, you know, we will help you along the way your success is our success. And if you're not successful, whether it's monetary, or whether it's just self, you know, evaluation or whatever, we want to make sure that you understand what you're getting into fully. And so there is no timeline for that, you know, if they're like six to nine months, or hey, I'm thinking about it, but I'm not going to make a decision until next year. Great. I'm okay with that. You know, just because it's not within that two week, four week process, it's fine. Just don't rush into it. And you just continue talking because more than likely, they'll do an additional unit. Or they'll know somebody just like everything else. There's always referrals, there's always having that experience and making sure. And if you can provide that excellent relationship and feeling and connection. It's a win win. Yes, exactly. To your point, even if it doesn't move forward right away or on our timeline, it was not a waste of time, there was a good investment of time, and energy. So now going a little bit into a different different arena. But I know you mentioned about you know, you guys went from owners, owner operator to semi absentee, you've seen things where I feel like you mentioned something else that's that's changed. But basically my point is, there have been changes evolving, you know, as time goes on, what do you see? Whether it's pigtails and crewcuts evolving, or even just on a bigger scale, franchising evolving, like what do you see as the future of franchising? And I will throw this in there here if you want to mention that as well. But I also think women in franchising, it's a really great time as well. I've seen a lot of change happen there. So if you do want to touch on that at all, but basically future franchise Yeah, it's always great time for women to be in franchising. I mean for sure, right every there's a lot of opportunity. There's a lot of money lending opportunities. We see a lot of opportunities with with veterans too. We have a lot of veterans on our system, but it is evolving and with pigtails We're always, you know, making sure we're technology wise and innovation. You know, even though we are a kid's hair salon, how can we cutting hair simple, you know, you got, you have your employees, they went to cosmetology school, they know how to cut hair, there's not a lot of change in kids haircuts, it's pretty much three ways to cut a child's hair. But it's about the experience as a whole that that parent is experiencing, and when they walk into our salon, so how can we make it easier for them? What can we do? So a lot of that technology and innovation will continue changing for us making sure that the app is, you know, we have an app, that that's the best app that it can be how we can the timeline of checkout process and what we what services that we can provide in the future. So that's always evolving with us and making sure that we are understanding, you know, the way of the world and how, again, it goes back to it's just a haircut you're walking in. But how can you make this a commodity? How can you make sure that the customer experience is top notch? And so that's kind of what we're always evaluating the marketing and just the innovation portion of it amazing. And I think too, that's something for any brand to take away is, hey, you're just you're doing an oil change, or you're doing whatever it is, you're mowing someone's lawn? How can you make that experience better? How can you, you know, if it makes them, hey, I can make a book a book an appointment now, you know, and that's the thing is, we have to be open minded. It's funny, I'll tell you a quick story. But back in the day, when we first started this, we were a walking salon only, we we did not want to take appointments, we were adamant about parents and children are never on time for anything. So why would we take appointments and you know, back everything up, if someone is a no show or whatever? Well, over time, markets dictated appointments were necessary. And then the pandemic hit. And then we had to completely shift and our thought process because now we had to take time for cleaning and making sure that the the customers felt safe. And you know, and just making sure everything was sanitized and everything. So appointments makes sense. And now 100% of our our salons are appointment base. So for so many years, we were like No, no way. We don't want to do that. Why would we do that you have to be open minded to make sure and you evolve to where, you know what what things are asking and what they're requiring, and what's best for the company as a whole. And so that's something that mate was a huge shift since the pandemic, hey, and the fact that you were able to do that, I think yeah, being open as well. And even now, as you're saying that I'm like thinking to our company, I'm like, what are some things that were like adamant about that, you can change. And I think that's true, you know, just looking at, especially just in the past two years, how things have changed, and people have had to evolve. And I know we've talked about it, I've everyone's been talking about it for ages, but it's just a really great example of a you do have to be open, be quick, be able to switch things, but also that is the strength of a franchise as well, as a franchise business owner, you trust that your franchisor is going to make those changes and be able to do it quickly in a way that as an independent you probably wouldn't be able to. But anyways, well, thank you so much, Michelle, for nodding with me a little bit. Thank you so much for having me. It's so much fun. It was great talking to you. I love you know, I'm so proud of our relationship. And I look forward to much success with with this partnership. It's been great. And thank you so much, Michelle. I'm looking forward to the future. Here we go.