From Pregnancy Loss to Maternal Health Advocate with Rachell Dumas

What can I say about Rachell Dumas? Or perhaps, what can't I say about her? 

Rachell is an extraordinary nurse with a powerful story of pregnancy loss that will leave you both in tears and shaking your head in disbelief. 

After experiencing the loss of nine pregnancies, Rachell founded the nonprofit organization “A Light After Nine.” This organization aims to provide families navigating infertility, pregnancy loss, and maternal trauma with the emotional, financial, and mental health resources they need. In true "nurse" fashion, Rachell works tirelessly to raise awareness and advocate for equitable maternal healthcare. 

Through Rachell, I learned about maternal palliative care, which is not only for mothers who are dying but is also essential for those experiencing high-risk pregnancies. Considering that 30% of pregnancies end in loss, this approach is a brilliant way to support this community.

You may have heard the quote, “Be the change you wish to see in the world.” Rachell embodies the light she wishes to see in the world.

In the five-minute snippet: Tell me you’re a nurse without telling me you’re a nurse. For Rachell's bio, visit my website (link below).

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Transcript

[00:00] Michelle: What can I say about Rachell Dumas? Or perhaps what can't I say about her?

[00:07] Rachell is an extraordinary nurse with a powerful story of pregnancy loss that will leave you both in tears and shaking your head in disbelief.

[00:18] After experiencing the loss of nine pregnancies, Rachell founded the nonprofit organization "A Light After Nine."

[00:27] This organization aims to provide families navigating infertility, pregnancy loss and maternal trauma with the emotional, financial, and mental health resources they need.

[00:40] In true nurse fashion, Rachell works tirelessly to raise awareness and advocate for equitable maternal health care.

[00:50] Through Rachell, I learned about maternal palliative care, which is not only for mothers who are dying, but is also essential for those experiencing high- risk pregnancies.

[01:02] Considering that 30% of pregnancies end in loss, this approach is a brilliant way to support this community.

[01:10] You may have heard the quote, "Be the change you wish to see in the world."

[01:15] Well, Rachell embodies the light she wishes to see in the world. In the five- minute snippet: Tell me you're a nurse without telling me you're a nurse. Well, good morning, Rachell, welcome to the podcast.

[01:47] Rachell: Thank you for having me, Michelle.

[01:50] Michelle: You're welcome. It's my pleasure.

[01:52] I was so happy that you reached out to me and told me everything that you're doing with your nonprofit and as a nurse. So I'm really excited to talk to you about all of that.

[02:04] Let's just get started by telling me your story. Who is Rachell Dumas?

[02:11] Rachell: Absolutely. That's a complex question, but I am a nurse. I am also a maternal health advocate, an entrepreneur, and I am a nonprofit entrepreneur as well. But that started after an extremely difficult pregnancy journey.

[02:32] So in 2018, I had my first pregnancy test and it was positive at home. And I went to the doctor as soon as possible because I was bleeding. And upon doing a transvaginal ultrasound, he informed me that I was having a miscarriage.

[02:48] So my first pregnancy ended in loss. And I was then reassured that I would go on to have successful pregnancies and to not worry, and that this was all part of the journey.

[02:59] And that was far from true because I had a very traumatic pregnancy journey.

[03:04] In 2020, I got another pregnancy test done and it was positive.

[03:11] I had just returned from New York after doing a travel assignment as a nurse there and just was going through all the emotions from that experience. And I went to the ER this time because I was bleeding again.

[03:23] And the ER doctor told me that I had what seemed like a subchorionic hemorrhage, which is when the fetus implanted to the uterus. It could cause a cycle blood to form, and typically that's reabsorbed by the body and then you go on to have a healthy pregnancy.

[03:40] But not in all cases.

[03:42] I was told to follow up with the OB, which I did. But by the time I got to that appointment, the bleeding had worsened. I was having 10 out of 10 pain and I was nauseated and vomiting.

[03:54] It was pretty bad. I was super sick.

[03:56] I couldn't go to work and it was just bad. But I kept being reassured that everything was fine with the pregnancy. And despite of going to the ER multiple times and the OB multiple times, I was turned away.

[04:09] And at 13 weeks and three days, I lost my first baby, despite of literally that day being told that everything was fine.

[04:19] After that loss, I felt great physically. All of my symptoms had resolved. I was comfortable enough to allow my family and my friends to the gender reveal. In the morning of the reveal, I woke up wet and thinking I urinated on myself because I hadn't been this far along in pregnancy and thinking, you know, I was asleep and, you know, rationalizing that I was pregnant.

[04:44] And it happens. I didn't think anything of it went about my day, despite of feeling, you know, having an instinctual feeling like something was wrong.

[04:53] An hour before my gender reveal, I went to the bathroom to urinate and the baby just falls out.

[05:01] So at that point, I knew something was really wrong with me, despite what that doctor had told me. In 2018, I follow up at the ER and I'm telling the ER doctor, the same ER I've been to numerous times throughout that pregnancy, that I just lost the second baby at 15 weeks.

[05:21] And she asked me, how do you even know you were pregnant? And I asked her, would you like to see a picture of the baby in a toilet? And she said yes.

[05:28] I showed her and she said, oh, that's a baby right there.

[05:32] I follow up with the OB and she diagnosed me with cervical insufficiency. So my cervix is too weak to hold a baby once it gets to a certain weight, and that's typically around the end of the first trimester, beginning of the second trimester, where they're heavy enough to make the cervix open when it's weak.

[05:51] The treatment is a cervical cerclage and she said that I would have to make it to 13 weeks to get that done.

[06:00] And the other issue was that I was having early miscarriages. So after that experience, I had multiple early miscarriages. I went to a friend's sister's OB clinic because she recommended that I come and see her.

[06:15] And she put me on progesterone suppositories to help strengthen my cervix to make it to 13 weeks.

[06:21] Then a manager of mine suggested that I see a specialist, a reproductive endocrinologist and a reproductive geneticist just to get further evaluation. The issue was that none of my healthcare providers, despite of having five losses at this point, ever suggested that I see a specialist.

[06:37] So I went to the reproductive endocrinologist. She did a series of testing of autoimmune diseases, some genetic diseases, a look at my uterus for shape, anatomical issues, and just a full workup.

[06:52] Finally, and I got pregnant in May, before she could finish it. I started  progesterone suppositories. The reproductive endocrinologist followed me until I made it to the second trimester in which I graduated to a maternal fetal medicine doctor.

[07:08] That doctor was the one that put in a cerclage after I made it to 13 weeks. At that pregnancy, this was my sixth pregnancy.

[07:17] After she finished the procedure, she said, come back in seven weeks.

[07:22] The issue is that I had five losses at this point. And I advocated to come back sooner because of my history. And she refused. She said that if the cerclage was failing, I would have excruciating pain and I would have bleeding because the cerclage would literally be ripping through my cervix, which in my opinion made sense.

[07:45] I'm a healthcare provider. It just made sense. If a suture was ripping through my cervix, I would imagine it would bleed.

[07:51] So seven weeks passed and I felt great. And I went to the maternal fetal medicine doctor to get my 20 week ultrasound and also to follow up with her.

[08:00] And mid-ultrasound, the tech just walks out the room and says, the doctor will be back.

[08:06] And I immediately regretted not advocating more for myself.

[08:12] The doctor came in and stated that my cerclage had failed. And I was shocked because she told me there would be fireworks. She said that I would have bleeding and pain and I had nothing, there was nothing wrong with me for seven weeks.

[08:27] And I begged her to do another cerclage higher and to put me on bed rest or do something. And she nonchalantly said that I can go and deliver my baby.

[08:37] I was just terrified and very upset.

[08:40] But through that I called everybody I knew, every doctor, nurse, healthcare provider, every friend, family, anybody to help me look for a doctor after doing research who would do a transabdominal cerclage above the transvaginal cerclage that she put in.

[08:56] We found a doctor in Dallas, Texas, Dr. Falwell, who had a history of doing higher risk surgeries on pregnant women, successful ones. And he had put in a transabdominal cerclage after a failed vaginal cerclage on a twin pregnancy.

[09:11] So I was a little hopeful that he can do mine. He called me on his cell phone and said, I need you to get to Dallas today. And I took the red-eye to Dallas that night.

[09:19] And a three hour surgery turned into an eight hour surgery because after being on the plane, the baby had dropped more and they had to push the baby back in to do the cerclage.

[09:30] I woke up to excitement and healthcare providers just so happy that I was still pregnant and that the surgery was successful.

[09:40] But then the anesthesia wore off and the contractions started and they gave me every type of medication to stop the contractions. But after 30 hours of labor, my water broke and then I had to go back to the OR to deliver the baby.

[09:57] After they removed both of the cerclages.

[10:01] He promised to bring me back to Dallas to do that cerclage outside of pregnancy and that I would be a mom. And I believed him. He was the first person to give me real assurance, reassurance that I actually believed.

[10:16] I had some early miscarriages after that. But then May 2022, I got a home positive pregnancy test back in Atlanta. I was followed by the reproductive endocrinologist. I graduated to the maternal fetal medicine doctor, a different one this time.

[10:30] And I made it to 36 weeks and I delivered a 4 pound 15 ounce baby boy who is now a 2 year-old potbelly toddler.

[10:45] Michelle: That's an incredible story, Rachell.

[10:50] Gosh, I'm just dumbfounded and for so many reasons. First of all, the failures, so many failures on the part of healthcare providers and that's so incredibly sad and disturbing and depressing.

[11:12] I'm also just dumbfounded by your strength and your perseverance and your determination of how somebody could suffer so many losses, such deep losses and keep going and keep staying hopeful.

[11:33] Where does that come from? How did you do that? 

[11:41] Rachell: Through that whole time, I had little glimpses of hope along the way. You know, I had a desire to be a mom. I didn't think that it would take a left turn like this, to say the least, I couldn't have planned for this.

[11:53] But I had the first loss. The doctor was like, this is normal, you'll be fine. Then I had the twin loss and then I got a diagnosis.

[12:02] So I was like, okay, so we know something's wrong with me and there's a treatment plan. And then I had some early losses and then I was put on progesterone.

[12:12] And then they're like, well, if you take this, this will help with the early losses. Okay, cool. So we are still trying all of these, you know, triggers.

[12:20] Michelle: Yeah.

[12:21] Rachell: So I kept saying, okay, well we have to make it to 13 weeks. And I made it to 13 weeks. And then they did a transabdominal cerclage. I'm like, okay. But then that failed.

[12:30] But then they're like, actually there's another type of cerclage that you should have got anyway, which is a transabdominal cerclage, which is permanent. You don't even have to get it taken out before pregnancy, before you go into labor.

[12:40] So it just kept being like those little, but we didn't do this, we didn't do this. We have to try this. And that kept me going in addition to therapy every week and, and just the urge and desire to be a mother.

[12:56] Michelle: Well, I'm a big fan of therapy and I have been for several decades.

[13:02] No embarrassment there. Do what you gotta do to take care of your mental health. Because what you went through was so, gosh, I don't even know the word for it.

[13:15] Horrifying.

[13:17] You went through this as a mom and a person and of course you're also a nurse.

[13:24] And how did it feel to experience it as a nurse, seeing all these failures in the healthcare system?

[13:36] Rachell: So as a nurse, you do witness discrimination, you witness balls being dropped, inequities, all these things. You do witness that when you're on the other side as a patient, it's still surreal.

[13:50] When I'm a patient, I'm not a nurse unless I really have to be. Right? There were so many times throughout my pregnancy journey where I had to step in as a nurse, hook myself up to machines and show them symptoms that they said I wasn't having, advocating for myself, doing research, trying to expand my knowledge field so I can advocate for myself effectively having to find a doctor.

[14:15] I was playing a case manager for myself. So to be on the other side is sobering to say the least. And in the 2000s, no one should sustain non pregnancy losses before having a baby.

[14:28] And the fact that I did as a healthcare provider too is sad. It's so many things. It's so many things. But it makes you lose trust in the healthcare system.

[14:41] If you had any.

[14:43] Michelle: Yeah, absolutely. And you know, I can't help thinking, and you can tell me this is true, that those disparities in care really motivated you and fueled you to become a maternal health advocate.

[14:57] Rachell: 100%. I firsthand saw all of the maternal health disparities. I experienced them. I am terrified of being pregnant again. I can't even get pregnant again after this journey.

[15:14] I have one child, nine in heaven, but one living child after this. And I couldn't imagine being pregnant and maneuvering through the system without any healthcare background. That must be just incredibly terrifying if you have a high-risk pregnancy or if anything goes wrong or if you have a cookie cutter one.

[15:37] You know, it's just, it's scary to know that the system that's supposed to protect you isn't. And not only is it not protecting you, it's doing the opposite of what it's supposed to do.

[15:47] So I'm fighting against it.

[15:50] Michelle: Well, I'll say personally that I have felt that being a nurse, that if I was on the receiving end of healthcare, I don't know if I would say I would get preferential treatment because I don't think it was, it'd be preferential.

[16:07] But I would think that the providers that are caring for me that knew I was a nurse were sensitive to that is if that makes sense.

[16:16] I, and I don't think I'm verbalizing it as well as I could. But you know, after hearing your story, man, I just, I felt this way before that people that aren't in the medical profession and don't know how to advocate for themselves or don't have health literacy.

[16:37] Just imagine after hearing your story of being a nurse and going through this, if you had no way to advocate for yourself like what the experience would be like.

[16:48] Rachell: Absolutely. If you don't have the education to back up your bark or your comeback or defend yourself, then you can't defend yourself. You literally cannot advocate for yourself.

[17:04] So it is so important to get the education out there in front of the faces of not only moms and birthers, but their partners, because while you're in labor prematurely and you're bleeding out and can't even speak and you know, you have preeclampsia and eclampsia, you can't talk and all these things, who is going to be there talking for you and advocating on your behalf?

[17:28] Your partner, your friends, your family. So it's so important to have that education out there, because even as a healthcare professional, at the time I was a trauma nurse, I was not a maternal health nurse.

[17:39] I think I had one maternal health patient. And we were all like, oh, my God, what do we do with this patient? All OB, please call an OB nurse, please.

[17:48] You know, we're gonna handle the trauma part. But you can't separate trauma and OB when there's two patients. There's a baby inside of this patient. You cannot separate that.

[17:59] Michelle: Nope.

[17:59] Rachell: So we also have to do so much education. Just looking back on that experience with our healthcare providers who are not used to this population, so especially the ER, especially the emergency room, they are not equipped to treat a maternal health patient properly.

[18:19] They are not. They would do an OB consult, as they should. But there is so much that needs to happen outside of that to make sure they're treated correctly.

[18:29] Michelle: That is so true. And we found that to be true in our institution as well. And we have some great educators that, you know, met with the emergency room staff and really helped provide education for moms, because, yeah, that's something that's very lacking.

[18:50] And it's just specialized area, right?

[18:54] Rachell: Yes.

[18:56] Michelle: Yeah. It's like they can't be great at everything. They're great at a lot of things, but there's other specialty areas where they need a little bit more support, a hundred percent.

[19:13] I know that that experience, going through those experiences motivated you to start your nonprofit, A Light After Nine. So I want to hear about that. And who is that geared for?

[19:26] Why did you start it? All of those things?

[19:29] Rachell: Absolutely. So after this tumultuous journey, to say the least, I took a hiatus from pregnancy for about a year and a half. And a year and eight months, actually. I started this nonprofit on my birthday in August, and I finally filed for it in October after coming up with concepts, names, everything.

[19:52] And I wanted to create something to help other moms and birthers and their village to not experience anything of what I experienced. I think I suffer enough loss for everybody.

[20:05] I think I experienced the worst of it for everybody. But it's still so much out there that we're going through as pregnant people just trying to navigate the system.

[20:17] So I created a nonprofit, A Light After Nine. I named it that because of the 9 losses. I finally got my light, which is being on the other side of that.

[20:24] And also my light is my son that I finally had. But we offer many services to birthers and their families. We offer mental health resources grants and help them apply for grants because it's expensive and a lot of people don't even know about grants outside of IVF and there are so many.

[20:45] Also, we do a mom to mom mentorship program, a "momtorship" program where those moms who've been there, done that can help moms who are going through it, you know, go through all those emotions and the doctor's visits and everything.

[20:58] I am a huge fan of therapy and anything behavioral health, but it's nothing like having another person who's been through your shoes and walked it and lived it to be a light for you and to be on the other side pulling you through those dark times.

[21:15] We also find doctors and vet them for our moms and that is a huge help because when you're going through these processes, it's so hard to do all this extra work.

[21:25] And then we do care baskets to high risk moms in the hospitals and those in underserved communities.

[21:32] We also have a business to business component where we work with OB clinics and hospitals to help them reform their maternal health programs. So I'm currently working with one that I sustained a lot of trauma at and we're renovating their program right now and we would love to do that for other hospitals.

[21:52] We provide palliative care and supportive care to inpatient moms with high risk pregnancies who have admissions and we also provide post discharge case management because so many times after they're discharged from the hospital, they're like, follow up with your OB but really they need a cardiologist and a neonatologist and hematologist and a pulmonologist, you know, and we review those discharge paperworks with them and make sure they have their follow up and their medications and know what happened to them.

[22:24] Michelle: So, yeah, you've provide such a full range of services. I love your website, by the way. It's great.

[22:30] Rachell: Thank you.

[22:31] Michelle: And like you said, I think most people have no idea that there are so many grants available and scholarships. And one of the grants that I saw on your website is the Men Having Babies grant.

[22:47] So talk about the importance of inclusion regarding the LGBTQ population and those individuals that wish to have children.

[22:57] Rachell: Yes. There's not one population who wants to have babies.

[23:02] You know, that looks different for everybody, every family. You know, people like to think because you're a woman, you can get pregnant and go to the doctor and get some ultrasounds and then go to the hospital nine months later and give birth and it's not that simple.

[23:17] It wasn't that simple for me. Those everybody's journey, whether you're lgbqtia or if you identify as female or male or whatever you identify as, that journey may be cookie cutter or maybe not.

[23:33] And sometimes our journey includes adoption, and sometimes it includes surrogacy, and sometimes it includes IVF.

[23:42] So I wanted to make sure I highlighted that that looks different for everybody and that there are resources for all of us. So whatever you identify as and however your journey looks, we want to be there to support you.

[23:57] Michelle: Yeah, well, thank you for that explanation. I just found it to be great that you have so many services.

[24:05] So how is your nonprofit funded, Rachell? Is it through donations? Talk about that.

[24:12] Rachell: Yeah, so donations, sponsorships and grants.

[24:16] We have so many events coming up.

[24:19] So many events coming up. And also we do, like I said, the care baskets to our underserved communities and those in the hospital with high risk pregnancies, and we make sure they have all their essentials in that basket because it's just hard to come in unexpectedly to the hospital and try to also think about all the things you need thereafter.

[24:40] So we help with that. But we do accept donations for moms, and we also accept financial donations as well to keep us going and to support our villages and their moms.

[24:53] Michelle: It does take a village. That's been a repeating theme because nobody could do this alone. And it takes a village of family and friends and community to really help these women and men thrive.

[25:12] Right?

[25:13] Yeah.

[25:15] Well, I want to talk about maternal palliative care for a second because I've seen this on your LinkedIn. You've had some articles about maternal palliative care and that was something that, 

[25:26] I've worked in the neonatal realm for three decades and I haven't really heard a lot about that. So talk about what that is.

[25:36] Rachell: Yeah. So I actually two weeks ago, spoke with the Center to Advance Palliative Care because I was looking on their website and other palliative care organizations and they failed to have anything about maternal health yet.

[25:50] We know mothers are dying yet. We also know that mothers are not dying, but have critical conditions or have issues within their pregnancy that requires supportive care, which is that branch of palliative care that we don't talk about often enough.

[26:07] That includes support from pain control to nausea control to advocacy that we need throughout our pregnancy journeys. I could have definitely used that. The issue is when we think of palliative care, we think of two things.

[26:21] Terminally ill patients or our older population.

[26:25] And we think of end of life care, cancer patients, you know, patients like that. And that's not all palliative care is. Do we need that in the pregnancy and maternal health community?

[26:36] Absolutely. Many times we're faced with fetal demise. 30% of pregnancies end in loss. Why isn't palliative care consulted? Why do we not even think about that?

[26:49] Moms do pass and we need palliative care for that because it also supports their families. It's not just the patient, it's the family that they support. But moms carry babies who are going to pass.

[27:04] We need palliative care consult for that. Moms and birthers are admitted into the hospital with high risk pregnancies and issues and we need supportive care throughout their bed rest time there for three months or because they have cardiac issues or because the baby is going to have cardiac surgery while in utero.

[27:24] You know, those are all things that need supportive care. So palliative care is definitely a platform that I would die upon that we need because it is not used enough or at all in most hospitals.

[27:39] Michelle: Well, I think it's brilliant and I think that so often we get really tied up in words and we have a hard time seeing exactly what you just described as maternal palliative care.

[27:55] We see it as end of life care, death and dying, and that certainly encompasses it. But it's also more broad. And I just love that you are talking about it and spreading the word about it.

[28:11] And in terms of spreading the word, how do you let people know? So organizations, hospitals, individuals, how do you get the word out about A Light After Nine?

[28:24] Rachell: So for our villages and our birthers, we are on social media. We have a webpage www.alotafter9.org and I'm on LinkedIn Rachell Dumas as well.

[28:37] And we do podcasts like yours where we spread the word. We have these very meaningful conversations and you ask these amazing questions that others need to know about that they don't even think to ask or to discuss with their doctor because you just don't know what you don't know.

[28:54] And that's a scary thing. And as far as businesses, we do outreach and procurement. So we directly outreach to different businesses such as hospitals and OB clinics and as well as collaborating with other organizations as well.

[29:10] And then I also am speaking at quite a few different conferences. Soon I'll be at the Clinician Fest and I'll be at the New York Perinatal Association's conference, speaking there, and so many other ones this year to spread the word, to also give my speech, which is an interactive case study where the audience participates using QR codes to determine which care options should have been used at different stages of my pregnancy journey.

[29:41] Michelle: That's cool.

[29:42] Rachell: Yeah, it's so exciting. And the audience, the ones that I've presented so far, they love it. It's very interactive, it's engaging. It's sad, unfortunately, but you can see firsthand the maternal health disparities and the decision making, the poor decision making that occurred and how it led to one pregnancy loss after another.

[30:02] But, yeah, that's how we get the word out.

[30:05] Michelle: Yeah, I love that format. That is so cool. It's such a great way to engage people.

[30:11] And I want to talk about the feedback. So can you share some of the feedback from your clients first and then also from healthcare providers?

[30:20] Rachell: Yes, absolutely. So when I tell my story, I get a lot of private feedback. As you can imagine, infertility is just very difficult to come to terms with one and then to discuss two and to publicly display three.

[30:38] So to be bold, as my clients tell me, and to be so vocal about my story is very encouraging to them. They feel seen, they feel heard.

[30:50] And I get a lot of long dissertations in my DMs about their journey and I love them. And I sit there and read the whole thing, usually on Saturdays. That's what I do.

[31:01] I'm reading my DMs about all the pregnancy journey and the disparities and everything. And I try to help us as much as I can. So I feel like it's bringing people together and also allowing other people to use their voice.

[31:16] So, yeah, it's. It's been a beautiful journey, Michelle. Honestly, it's been awesome.

[31:23] Michelle: Yeah, I just am so touched by that. I find myself getting so emotional. I think that's something that, you know, nurses are so great at, is just really connecting with people and, you know, helping them shine.

[31:42] And, man, that's just, again, it's a real superpower and I love it that people are getting so much support and care from you and all the services you provide.

[31:58] That's pretty awesome.

[31:59] Rachell: Thank you.

[32:00] Michelle: So I love your LinkedIn and I know that's one of the places that we can find you and we'll talk about that towards the end. But one of your recent, recent posts there just really educated me.

[32:15] And it was. This is February, so today's February 10th that we're recording this and it's Black History Month. And so your recent post, you said, after enduring nine pregnancy losses, finally giving birth to my son was nothing short of a miracle.

[32:31] But my mission doesn't stop there. I'm committed to ensuring that he knows his history, his power, and the legacy of those who fought for our rights. The Black Panther Party, often erased in mainstream narratives, was instrumental in maternal health advocacy, launching free healthcare clinics, prenatal care programs, and sickle cell screenings for black communities.

[32:55] Their work laid the foundation for many public health initiatives we see today.

[33:00] And I was so amazed by this and embarrassed that I didn't know this.

[33:08] So talk about that, Rachell.

[33:10] Rachell: Yeah, so doing it. The time that and Black Panther Party is still around, too, but during the time that they were started and during that very tumultuous era of history. And not to say that we still don't suffer as black people in a lot of realms, especially healthcare, as you can see, there are a lot of inequalities at play, but they took a stand.

[33:34] And not only did they take a stand against this and all of the racial and the discrimination, they also created programs, many programs to help with different issues. But I like to talk about maternal health, of course, but just to help our black people receive care and adequate care, they created programs where it wasn't too expensive for them to receive perinatal care, to get checkups, a time where we weren't always able to go to certain doctors because there were doctors for black people, doctors for white people, and doctors for other races.

[34:13] And this was detrimental to our health because sometimes we were in a position where we couldn't even afford healthcare, similar to now. But they made it affordable and they made it available, which is imperative during that time.

[34:27] We're still unfortunately, struggling with these same issues in 2024 because of health care deserts and maternal health care deserts, specifically because healthcare is so expensive with or without insurance, because black people are being heard and being ignored, and we're being medically gaslighted.

[34:48] There was many times I went to the doctor, even as a healthcare professional, telling them that I had 10 out of 10 pain and excruciating headaches and I was bleeding and all these things, and I was sent home until everything was fine, only to have lost two babies from a pregnancy.

[35:06] So they were one of the groups that were essentially, like, leading the way to fighting those maternal health inequalities. They were pivotal in that.

[35:21] Michelle: Yeah, I think they're an organization that is frequently misunderstood, and I certainly did not know that history.

[35:29] And I think it's just it's such a gift that you have for educating people and bringing awareness to all these issues that we have in our communities and just in healthcare in general.

[35:47] So thank you for that and thank you for that explanation.

[35:51] Rachell: Absolutely.

[35:52] Michelle: Rachell, you support a lot of people. Who supports you?

[35:57] Rachell: Oh, I would say once I started this nonprofit, I'm a nurse too. The nursing community was like the mother bear of nurse entrepreneurs. Like, we support each other to no end.

[36:12] Like, we repost everything. We go to each other's competence, we speak on each other's behalf, we write recommendations, and then the maternal health community is just another layer of support.

[36:23] I mean, it's just unparalleled, to be honest. And whatever you want to do with maternal health, there is an organization, there's somebody waiting to support you, excited about it. And there are so many organizations.

[36:38] The Maternal Health Task Force of Georgia. There's birthing Cultural rigor, melanin, Mother's me. So many. I can't even name all of the organizations, but there is a list of supporters that I have and even non maternal health organizations.

[36:54] Our sponsors like Urban Eden. And it's just beautiful to see whether you're a maternal health nursing or not or nothing in healthcare to realize how great of an issue this is and to be all, you know, 10 toes down to health.

[37:12] Michelle: Yeah, we gotta be all in and support each other. And it sounds like you have a great network and a great web and great foundation lifting you up so you can lift others up.

[37:25] Rachell: Yes, a hundred percent.

[37:27] Michelle: Well, that's what you're doing.

[37:30] And I just have such respect and admiration and love for everything that you're doing, Rachell, and I'm so happy that you came on to share it with our listeners today.

[37:44] Rachell: Thank you so much for having me. And I love what you're doing, Michelle. I mean, you're having these extremely tough conversations and, you know, extremely important conversations nonetheless, but extremely difficult.

[37:59] And we need to hear it and the word needs to be spread and you're doing it. And like I send you in your inbox, you deserve all the accolades and the awards and you're just.

[38:10] Michelle: Thank you so much, Rachell.  I appreciate those kind words. I really enjoy it.

[38:15] And I love talking to nurses who are doing great things. And so on that note, do you have any recommendations for a guest on this podcast? Doesn't have to be a nurse.

[38:29] Rachell: Yeah, Cherise, I'm going to say her last name is Hicks with maternal Care.

[38:34] She is literally in the process of making wearable maternal care devices to help monitor moms and birthers who may be in maternal health deserts or you know, not able to get to their doctors or who can, who are just high risk.

[38:49] And that is going to be the wave of the future. And there's also Trisha Young, her name is also Mama Yada with melanin moms me and they're doing respite care in home maternal health.

[39:03] Respite care is just another level of self self care because so many times even if you have a partner, even if you have a husband, it's nothing like and they have to go back to work right after baby.

[39:15] A lot of times just you and baby. And God forbid you don't have a mom or family or friends that could come in and be there to step in.

[39:23] So those two definitely. I would love to have them on the podcast.

[39:29] Michelle: They sound phenomenal. So yes, definitely introduce us.

[39:33] Rachell: I will, I will.

[39:35] Michelle: Sweet. Well, where can we find you, Rachell?

[39:38] Rachell: Yeah, you can find me on social media except for X, I'm not on there. But on Instagram and threads it's alightafter9 on TikTok. We're R D U M A S R N R Duma RN and A Light after nine on there.

[39:53] On Facebook we have a business page, A Light After Nine. And I'm also on there, Rachell Marie Dumas. And then we have our website, www.alightafter9.org.

[40:05] Michelle: Wonderful. I will put all of those in the show notes and I would encourage anybody who has questions, comments, feedback, reach out.

[40:17] Great. Okay, well, we've reached the last five minutes, Rachell. So this is the time where we have five minutes of fun and we play the five-minute snippet. So are you ready?

[40:28] Rachell: I'm ready. Should I be scared?

[40:33] Michelle: No, no, don't get scared. It's five minutes of fun. It's for everyone to see the off duty side of Rachell Dumas when she is not saving the world. So it's going to be fun.

[41:28] Okay. Convince me to live in Atlanta, Georgia.

[41:31] Rachell: Oh, goodness.

[41:33] I just want to say I'm from New Orleans, by the way, so I feel like I'm cheating on my city. But you told me Atlanta, so the mix, she's a living.

[41:47] I am not going to talk about the traffic, and I'm not preterm birth rates, and I'm not anything horrible about that. But I will say, if you like a variety of food, this is the place to be.

[42:01] Atlanta is a transplant city, so everybody that lives in Atlanta, most of us do not, are not from here. So you have just so many different options with food. I do love that, and I also hate it because in New Orleans, you know, we have New Orleans food.

[42:16] You know what you want to get, and you know it's different.

[42:20] And then I would say there are so many things to do in Atlanta. Like, you could have your own life and just things that you love to do and festivals that you love to go to and your coffee shop that you like to go to, and you can just be living next to somebody and they have a totally different life.

[42:39] So it's whatever you make of it. That is that type of city, in my opinion, as well.

[42:45] Michelle: Well, you had me at food, Rachell. Okay, this is a Finish this sentence. I know this is weird, but I really like to ______.

[43:00] Rachell: Oh, my goodness.

[43:02] I want to relate it back to food like I like to.

[43:05] Mexican food is, like, one of my favorite foods. It's like, like a thing for me. I probably eat it, like, once a week. It's so bad. But I have to eat my queso and my guacamole together.

[43:18] But it has to be in a specific order. I have to have queso on a chip first and then add the guacamole with a spoon manually because I don't like to contaminate the chips.

[43:31] Michelle: You sound like such a nurse, Rachell.

[43:35] Rachell: Like, it can't be green stuff in the white in the queso blanco. Like, I don't.

[43:43] Michelle: Oh, my gosh.

[43:45] It's like, tell me a nurse without telling me you're a nurse, right?

[43:50] Oh, my gosh. Okay, this next one is a Would you rather.

[43:54] Would you rather win a vacation to Switzerland or Disney World?

[43:59] Rachell: Yes, I guess. I don't care where the vacation is. I'm going Michelle. I just want to win a vacation. But I'll just pick one. I don't care. I just. I'm at the airport already. I'm there. I don't care.

[44:12] Michelle: I Love it. You probably need a vacation girl.

[44:15] Rachell: I do. I do.

[44:16] Michelle: Yeah. Okay, this is a Finish the sentence. ______starts a fire within me.

[44:23] Rachell: Maternal health. It starts a fire with me. Anything with.

[44:29] Michelle: I have witnessed that today. Okay. Would you rather have the ability to move things with your mind or the ability to read minds?

[44:40] Rachell: Move things. I don't need to know what everybody's thinking. Like, some things are better left just unknown. So I'd rather move things. Like, I don't feel like getting up. 

[44:50] Let me just put my suitcase in the car. Just. Yes, I'm moving things with my mind. Absolutely.

[44:55] Michelle: Oh, my gosh. I love it. Okay. Did you have a favorite childhood game?

[45:02] Rachell: Ooh, probably hide and seek. It was pretty basic. Yeah. Yeah.

[45:09] Michelle: That's so fun. You know, my grandkids are 10 and 7, and I'm amazed that when we get together, they still love to play hide and seek. I don't know why I thought they would be grown out of that by now.

[45:23] Rachell: Never.

[45:24] Michelle: They still love it. Okay, let's see. Last question. Finish this sentence: If I had to do it all over again, I would_______.

[45:37] Rachell: I would invest in Bitcoin in 2003.

[45:41] Michelle: You are a true entrepreneur.

[45:46] Rachell: That is the truth. That is my best.

[45:49] Michelle: That's fantastic. Rachell. You did amazing in the five-minute snippet.

[45:54] Rachell: Thank you.

[45:57] Michelle: We know if we had a lot of laughing that it was a good one, so thank you. Thank you for everything that you've brought to this conversation today. I just have delighted in this whole conversation with you, so thank you so much, Rachell

[Rachell] Thank you for having me. Michelle, it was truly a pleasure.

[46:17] Michelle: It was my pleasure. And, man, have a great rest of your day.

[46:21] Rachell: You too, honey.

[46:22] Michelle: Thank you.