The Conversing Nurse podcast
Are you a nurse curious about the experiences of other nurses? For 36 years, I have only known the Peds/NICU realm but I am intrigued by the roles of nurse researchers, educators, and entrepreneurs. Through conversations with nurses from various specialties, I aim to bring you valuable insights into their lives. At the end of each episode we play the five-minute snippet, just five minutes of fun as we peek into the 'off-duty' lives of my guests! Listen as we explore the nursing profession, one conversation at a time.
The Conversing Nurse podcast
Healing the Healers with Jacqui O'Connor
In the heart of northern New Zealand, nestled between rolling hills and lush green valleys, lay Heart Place Hospital, a beacon of innovation in the world of healthcare. Founded by Jacqui O'Connor, a Registered Nurse with three decades of experience, this unique wellness charity is unlike any hospital seen before.
After her own dismantling and rebuilding, Jacqui has devoted her life to the intricacies of mental well-being and integrative health, believing that true healing goes beyond the limits of conventional medicine.
As a self-proclaimed “cycle starter,” Jacqui radiates a palpable energy that draws in fellow healthcare professionals, artists, and community members alike. She understands the constraints that often stifle creativity within the medical field, and she is determined to break those barriers. Her vision is clear: healthcare should embrace all facets of human experience—mind, body, and soul.
With so many healthcare professionals feeling the effects of burnout in their jobs and their lives, Jacqui’s movement toward a more holistic approach to health creates a vision of empowerment and creativity. With Jacqui at the helm, Heart Place Hospital will inspire healing and innovation, one community connection at a time.
In the five-minute snippet: Star light, star bright, first star I see tonight. For Jacqui's bio, visit my website (link below).
Heart Place Hospital Podcast YouTube
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Thank you and I'll talk with you soon!
[00:00] Michelle: In the heart of northern New Zealand, nestled between rolling hills and lush green valleys, lay Heart Place Hospital, a beacon of innovation in the world of healthcare.
[00:12] Founded by Jacqui O'Connor, a registered nurse with three decades of experience, this unique wellness charity is unlike any hospital seen before.
[00:22] After her own dismantling and rebuilding, Jacqui has devoted her life to the intricacies of mental well being and integrative health, believing that true healing goes beyond the limits of conventional medicine.
[00:36] As a self proclaimed cycle starter, Jacqui radiates a palpable energy that draws in fellow healthcare professionals, artists and community members alike. She understands the constraints that often stifle creativity within the medical field and she's determined to break those barriers.
[00:54] Her vision is clear. Healthcare should embrace all facets of human experience,
[01:00] mind, body and soul. With so many healthcare professionals feeling the effects of burnout in their jobs and their lives, Jacqui's movement toward a more holistic approach to health creates a vision of empowerment and creativity.
[01:15] With Jacqui at the helm, Heart Place Hospital will inspire healing and innovation one community connection at a time.
[01:25] In the five minute snippet:
[01:28] Starlight, star bright, first star I see tonight.
[01:50] Well, hello Jacqui. Welcome to the podcast.
[01:53] Jacqui: Thank you so much, Michelle.
[01:56] Michelle: You know, Jacqui, I was trying to think of how we met and I just, I couldn't recall if it was on LinkedIn or Instagram. Okay,
[02:09] yeah, okay, LinkedIn.
[02:12] So I'm just so glad we did because, man, you're doing some really interesting stuff. And so we're going to talk about all of that today, but just give us an introduction.
[02:23] Who is Jacqui O'Connor? What is your story?
[02:29] Jacqui: Who is Jacqui O'Connor? I think I am a visionary and I'm a pioneer and I am dismantling a lot of what I learned in the first five decades of my life and rebuilding and being an example for others.
[02:52] So I live born and bred in New Zealand and I've been a registered nurse for 30 years.
[03:00] I'm a mum and a wife and I love to, I love to have fun. I love nature, I'm a nature lover, I love the moon.
[03:10] And I have been brought up in a pretty typical family and through the probably last 10 years, I really began to really truly understand and celebrate who I am as a human being.
[03:29] And through that journey, I accidentally started sharing that with others.
[03:37] Michelle: Wow. I love everything that you said, Jacqui. I I absolutely love that.
[03:43] You know, I know you're a registered nurse, but it's not the only thing that you are like, you know, you said, I'm, I'm a wife, I'm a mom, I love the moon, I love nature.
[03:58] So you have all these aspects to yourself.
[04:01] And I think sometimes I know for myself, I put myself in a box and I say I'm a nurse. And I really connect with that nurse identity. And it's taken me a while in my retirement to find that I am also a multifaceted person and it's a wonderful place to be.
[04:25] So thank you for sharing all of who you are, including being a nurse.
[04:31] Jacqui: Yeah, it was part of the dismantling really was that identity shift.
[04:38] It was all I saw was people really describing themselves by their profession.
[04:46] So it's taken a bit of practice to unlearn that and to remember that, like you said, we're multi dimensional beings.
[04:56] Michelle: Yes. I'm looking forward to the next 10 years, 20 years where I can,
[05:03] where I don't say I'm a nurse right away when I meet someone.
[05:08] Right. I can say I love the galaxies and I love my grandchildren and I love making things and being creative and stuff like that. So my journey is going to take a little bit longer, but you're my inspiration for sure.
[05:27] Jacqui: Oh, thank you.
[05:30] Michelle: Well, we're here today to talk about Heart Place Hospital and I think it's just very unique. But tell me about Heart Place Hospital and how you founded it and what are some of your services.
[05:48] Jacqui: So it was accidental.
[05:52] Just to put some context into it, I'm a heart kid, so I had open heart surgery as an eight year old. It was discovered when I was four years old that I had an atrial septal defect and it was repaired when I was 8.
[06:04] So albeit that I was physically repaired, I had never was exposed to any sort of psychological spiritual support and, and through that I created lots of adaptations to help me survive.
[06:18] So pretty, pretty typical of any human.
[06:23] It doesn't have to be an open heart surgery, but whatever we've experienced as a child and we've often then created adaptations and they served me, they served me really well.
[06:33] And my ones were pretty typical. Busyness was one of mine. So I was in my head a lot. Like I literally thought my body was, the purpose of my body was to transport my head around and I used people-
[06:48] pleasing and perfectionism,
[06:50] they're pretty much my typical coping mechanisms. And then as I got older, alcohol was another coping mechanism for me and then it wasn't until I went through a rite of passage.
[07:03] So I'd been through several already and they'd been really crunchy times, but no one ever spoke of them any differently, so I didn't know any different.
[07:15] And then when I started, when I entered into perimenopause, that's when the true dismantling occurred. And through the healing work that I've done, I now discovered that if you haven't understood the other rites of passages and seen the growth that comes out of them and the.
[07:35] The silver linings from the lead that comes out of those rites of passages, then menopause is absolutely categorically going to give it to you then. And so that was where it happened for me.
[07:46] And it wasn't necessarily so much physical expressions. I call them expressions, I don't call them symptoms, because I see these rites of passages as very, very, very magical.
[07:58] And when you actually truly understand the truth of them, then they're really exciting times. Unfortunately, we live in a society and in this earth school that we're not set up to actually understand and celebrate them the way that we're designed to.
[08:17] And so for me, it was a real dismantling. So psychosocially and psycho spiritually. For me, not necessarily as much physically, but that definitely I did have expressions in that too.
[08:30] So I was nursing at the time as a nurse manager. I had a team of nurses all around New Zealand,
[08:38] and I had what would be typically called a burnout.
[08:43] And it was in that burnout, which I might add,
[08:48] was triggered by a unrelated surgery, first general anesthetic that I'd had since my open heart surgery on the anniversary of my open heart surgery at the same hospital.
[09:01] So I was, someone was really trying to get my attention.
[09:06] I just gained support through the only way I knew, which was really difficult because it was very shameful when you were the help to ask for help. So it was,
[09:16] It took a lot of my courage to actually ask for help. And when I got the help, it was very typical traditional talk therapy. And I was offered pharmaceuticals.
[09:30] And I remember standing with the prescription in my hand and outside my first talk therapy and thought, is this it? I've been of service for 21 years and is this it?
[09:42] And it took,
[09:45] I call that my Mack truck moment, because it literally stopped me in my tracks and I couldn't access my adaptations, I couldn't access busyness, I couldn't access people pleasing, I couldn't access perfectionism.
[09:57] I was literally stopped in my tracks and within that quiet space, within that void that I'd filled up for four decades, at that point, my whispers returned. So this inner pilot, like this inner voice came out and it said, you're here to care for the carers.
[10:15] And at the time, this is nine years ago, I was thinking, oh, sweet, no problem, you know, happy thoughts and pedicures, I can do that.
[10:24] But as I went through, along my healing journey and started to really dive deep into all the rites of passages, so birth, menarche, motherhood,
[10:38] sexuality, menopause and death, I started to really, truly understand that we are multidimensional beings and that we aren't, our bodies aren't here just to transport our heads around. And I literally just thought, wow, if I don't know this, and I'm a highly educated woman who's being raised
[11:00] in a very connected,
[11:04] financially secure family, then who else doesn't know this? And so I literally just started doing workshops in my lounge and I was really just sharing what I'd just learned with others.
[11:18] And it just kept morphing. And each time I'd find something else, I'd create something else. So what I now, making sense of everything makes so much sense.
[11:29] So as I was going through perimenopause, which is a time where you, we start transitioning and we no longer can create life within our physical being.
[11:41] We still have this real desire to create. So I was creating these different workshops and these different offerings and I realized that it was more than me. It was more than just what I could offer.
[11:55] And I was through my own healing journey and attending other workshops and just meeting these amazing people and hearing their wisdom and their expertise.
[12:04] And so I started collaborating because I thought, wow, this is crazy that we're all going to go off and learn this modality and we're just gonna be exhausted with all these modalities.
[12:15] Why don't we all work together, bring our communities together and start sharing? So I really did see that it was, what I was discovering was creating a very feminine model of health and business,
[12:30] so community collaboration as opposed to competition and capitalism.
[12:36] And then, and it just really took off.
[12:39] And of course then the pandemic hit and I was still frontline nursing at the time, but it was really then that I thought, whoa, okay, I had my Mack truck four years earlier so that I could be available for this time with what I'm dismantling and what I'm building.
[12:57] And so I left bedside nursing and I could see then that it was no longer fitting with my knowing, it wasn't the model that I wanted to be part of because I now could see that we really needed integrative inner wisdom, our indigenous and innate nature to be part of really supporting sustainable health and education system.
[13:30] And so I had a thriving business and I realized it needed to be burnt down. So I burnt it down.
[13:39] And 20 months ago I started a charity, so not-for-profit. And I felt that was the right model because it was all, all about collaboration. So I didn't feel it really fitted that masculine business model.
[13:54] And so that's kind of the journey and that's speed dating.
[13:59] How it looks now is the model is Heart Place Hospital is the umbrella and we have service providers who are within that umbrella. So often those service providers have started as visitors.
[14:11] So we call what what other hospitals would call patients or clients. We call them visitors because we're bringing back the etiology of hospital, which is the hospitality which is welcoming in of visitors or strangers.
[14:25] And so often they come in as visitors.
[14:28] Sometimes like I had been burned in that kind of what society calls burnout. So unwell and through our bespoke care plans and creating healing roundtables for them so actually meeting them with their individual needs,
[14:47] we're able to support them back into alignment and then we're able to also they often become service providers. So we're able to amplify and activate them and provide them platforms for them to offer their services.
[15:04] So often people in caring or service aren't necessarily great at their Zone of Genius is caring is of service of being a space holder, not necessarily creating business. So that's where we can step in and we can hold space for them in that, in that respect and do marketing and provide them platforms so podcasts and then we can also refer to them and then they donate back into the charity.
[15:41] So it's a circular economy essentially. So the visitors often become service providers. Service providers always stay as visitors so they can access anything that have. We often there's a lot of in kind work that occurs so a lot of contouring and in kind work which is amazing.
[16:02] That's a real feminine community based model. And then of course we have our sponsors and donors as well. So we really are reimagining the health and education system by providing safe soft land sentry and sustainable model so that those who know that they're here to provide service and are our carers can actually care at the best rather than what's left of them.
[16:34] So that we're still keeping everyone warm, but we're not burning ourselves out while we're doing it.
[16:40] Michelle: Well, that's an incredible journey that you went on and experienced. And there was something that you said, Jacqui, that kind of piqued my interest. And said that you have traveled down the road of sort of traditional talk therapy or like probably cognitive behavioral therapy and medication.
[17:04] And then you kind of had this moment where you were like, there's gotta be more than this out there. Right?
[17:13] And so is that something like, did you know of other modalities as far as healing? Is that something that's in your culture that you have more access to or is it very similar to the Western culture where if we're having a problem, we go to a therapist and we get medication?
[17:35] Jacqui: Yeah, no, it wasn't in my radar at all. So my knowing and my belief system was that that was very. Anything outside of talk therapy and medication was very woo woo.
[17:46] It was holistic, it was alternative is probably what I would have. The belief system I would have had at the time.
[17:54] And it was that void. It was that it was the point where I got to where I couldn't access my adaptations that I was really. The whispers came in and I started following them and they met me where I was at.
[18:15] So,
[18:16] you know, it was like following breadcrumbs really. I felt so rough and I wasn't my usual self. So other people were suggesting things and I was starting to get little nudges.
[18:34] But because I've been using busyness and all those other adaptations, I didn't have the space to receive those nudges. So I know when I was standing outside with the prescription, I just thought, this is a hell no.
[18:49] This is a, this is a no. So I never filled that prescription.
[18:53] And I know it was like following breadcrumbs. And I remember one of the first things was someone said, you know,
[19:03] I'm going to a yoga class. Would you like to come to yoga? Well, I had a belief that yoga was slow and I needed fast. You know, I had, I literally lived in fight and flight.
[19:17] So yoga was far too slow for me. I needed to be fast, I needed to be running, and that's how I would be fit and strong.
[19:28] So, yeah, so I went to a yoga class and then I got a book out of the library about breathing. And so it was the first time in four decades that I'd actually learned about breathing, even though I'd been breathing for over 40 years.
[19:42] And it was. When I read that book, I was just like, saying to everyone, oh, my God, have you read this book?
[19:49] So, yeah, it really was a massive dismantling. Like, I had really been in some kind of real.
[20:00] Whole different vortex.
[20:04] And I just had such huge conditioning from my schooling and from society that, you know, work hard,
[20:13] then play hard,
[20:15] and that just simply does not like a particularly. A woman's body is not designed to survive. Like, we can survive, but we're not designed to thrive.
[20:28] And it was that moment where I made a choice and I just got curious and I started following the breadcrumbs and the synchronicities,
[20:38] and nine years later, here I am.
[20:43] And not stopping. Like, now, it's like, it's so second nature. And I have, there's a lot of limiting beliefs that are absolutely no longer part of my belief system.
[20:57] Michelle: That's so interesting. Thank you for that explanation. And, you know, the reason I asked is because
[21:05] I have a picture in my mind of New Zealanders being very in touch with nature, very close with nature, very spiritual, very Zen,
[21:18] you know, into meditation, yoga, all of that. And so, you know, what I'm finding out by talking to you is that you are very similar to kind of our pace.
[21:33] And it looks like we could benefit from what you're doing now, slowing down,
[21:39] listening to those inner voices, all of that.
[21:44] Michelle: Wow, that's incredible.
[21:46] Do you think that because you mentioned the fight or flight and kind of the adrenaline junkie, do you think that the nursing profession or your nursing career heightened, that, added to it?
[22:02] Talk about that.
[22:05] Jacqui: I think for me, and this is what I talk to a lot of visitors about, is I did have.
[22:12] As a young person, I did have all that connection.
[22:17] For me,
[22:18] I did have a connection to my spirituality, and it was actually medicalized and medicated,
[22:24] and I'm seeing that happening a lot for our young people now. So I did, I did have it.
[22:31] And so that's what led me into nursing. So all I saw.
[22:35] Cause I'm highly sensitive. I'd been through this massive health journey.
[22:41] It was the nurses that had,
[22:43] you know, supported me through that with humor and kindness.
[22:49] And so it really was a breadcrumb that I followed but I didn't. Now I think if I was going through that sort of journey now, I would love to have seen a different sort of opportunity.
[23:01] And the only opportunity I saw was nursing. For me, like I would love to have seen, and this is something I visualize for young people is to have seen a school that encompasses multidimensional support.
[23:19] So whether it's astrology or body work or mindset or all of it, all of it.
[23:29] If that was nursing school,
[23:31] then that's what I would love to see for our offerings. Now what I'm seeing now, and I just want to go back to your comment about New Zealand. So we do have a beautiful country and we do have some
[23:46] Our indigenous people are phenomenal. They have a beautiful Wairoa, which means spirituality. So what is here? It's unfortunately it's
[23:56] Just being hidden. It's been a taboo and Heart Place Hospital is all about bringing in the tada and lessening the taboo. And unfortunately we actually have the highest youth and male suicide rate in the______
[24:12] And I've sat with a long time like why is that? And my reckoning is that a few things. One is I feel like we're upside down. So when it comes to the Gregorian calendar,
[24:28] Christmas time is our summer. It's also the end of all our schooling year and it's when all the festivities occur and it's when it runs precious, their summer holiday. So I feel like we've got a mindset of work hard all year and stop at the end of the year,
[24:47] which I think doesn't serve us.
[24:50] So the Gregorian calendars doesn't serve us. Whereas I like to follow more the Lunar calendar. I also think we're pretty remote, we're a small island at the bottom of the world.
[25:02] So there's that aspect. And then we also have quite a mentality of she'll be right. So rather than talking or expressing our emotions, they're very suppressed. And that's very much encouraged in our schooling system too.
[25:17] So in our schooling system it's very as much about right and wrong and celebrating those who are right. It's very much about being fixed rather than wholeness, seeing everybody's wholeness.
[25:31] And there is very much a black and white type of mentality. Yeah. So.
[25:37] But I do believe that New Zealand actually will be the first to rise and have Heart Place Hospital as an example for the rest of the world. So really normalising that we are multidimensional beings and to support the whole person.
[25:58] It's definitely normalised in our end of life rites of passage. So we have a lot of charities who support people at the end of life with energy work and with psychedelic therapies and body work.
[26:13] But it's now about normalizing it through the rest of our transitions and transformations.
[26:19] And I know that the evidence that we're all already seeing, with the size that we are now,
[26:28] with expansion, we can make a huge, huge difference.
[26:31] And so we support everyone. Everyone can come to Heart Place Hospital to anything we offer. And we offer anything from grief work, from energy work to self care to mindset, and we go all the way up to the spectrum.
[26:47] If you're quite galactic and quite connected, then we can support you in that respect too. But if you're quite neuter, understanding and celebrating your body, we'll meet you where you're at, where you're at.
[26:59] So we support everyone with that. And then what we can do with through our fundraising and through different portals of receiving funding is that we can, we can support those in the front line to actually access the support as well.
[27:16] So equity is really important because our light your house system, it's not equitable.
[27:22] So equity is really important that everybody gets access. And once again, we meet everyone with, with, with their needs. So if they want to meet someone in person, we can access that.
[27:33] They want to do group work, we accommodate, we can. If there's someone they particularly want to work with because they work well with, then we will connect with them and invite them to our umbrella.
[27:45] So, yeah, it's meeting everybody's needs. And I know that for me personally, when I went through my transition,
[27:54] I wasn't being met with my needs. It was really a tick box.
[27:58] And yeah, that no longer serves us. It's not sustainable. We've now got such a huge population around the world of baby boomers. So all those babies born after World War II and they're an aging population, so our health system is, is full.
[28:17] And then, then of course, we've also got a huge population of the baby boomer babies transitioning through menopause.
[28:26] So which is a magical, powerful transition if we understand and celebrate our body.
[28:34] Michelle: Yeah, I'm the last year of the baby boomers, so I'm right in that category.
[28:40] Jacqui: Yeah, yeah.
[28:43] Michelle: Well, Jacqui, take me through like, okay, say I'm a nurse and I have accessed your services and I'm coming to you and I'm burnt out.
[28:56] I'm ready to leave my nursing job. I'm not sleeping, I'm crying I'm, you know, having PTSD, whatever is going on, and I access your services. So take me through
[29:11] how you would assess that person and what do they need?
[29:17] Jacqui: So right now, today, this is how it happens. But in the future it's going to be quite different because we've created a platform so it'll be, we can do this on mass.
[29:26] But at the moment we triage, we would triage you. So create space, sit in space with you and understand and celebrate you and then create a very bespoke care plan.
[29:41] And part of that care plan is that we actually share, we'll share some podcasts of some service providers that we've intuited that will be a good fit for you and so that you are part of the decision making to who you want on your healing roundtable.
[29:59] But sometimes a nurse can come in that severity and within one session, within that one session of just being held and heard and then some really small suggestions, they can shift really quickly.
[30:16] So it's really quick, it doesn't take long. Like I never work with anyone for longer than one or two sessions. And then we build a healing roundtable. But, and what's really beautiful is that I've now got nurses who used to be that nurse refer to and they've got modalities like they'll have trauma informed healing modalities.
[30:39] So Havenin is one of our popular ones, eft, which is pretty familiar for a lot of people. We also have,
[30:47] you know, quantum healing,
[30:49] all sorts of energy work, body work. And then we will also look, we also will do like look at pathogens and viruses as well because a lot of frontline workers are actually, their physical bodies are walking around with pathogens and viruses, which was me and no doubt you.
[31:10] And so we will help people with shifting those because that really does block you from showing up in your and your best self. So the work that ultimately what we do is support people to heal their, heal their boundary wounds.
[31:27] So if I use me as an example,
[31:31] look at those adaptations that I was using and see the root cause of them. So work with those root cause really quick.
[31:38] It's all fast. All the modalities we use are really quick. And in these, and you find with caring people, they're generally highly sensitive.
[31:47] So they fall fast, but they rise quickly. And then we support them to advocate for themselves and others and then craft a life that best suits them. So often people say, I want to do what you're doing.
[32:00] And I'm like, cool, let's do it. Let's create, let's collaborate. Let's create something. And so many people I've collaborated with and they're now flying, they've got very sustainable offerings, they're living polar opposite lives to what they were, but they're making far more of a difference than they were bedside nursing or working,
[32:22] you know, 40 plus hours or shift work. So it's really helping people see or create some courage and bravery to really choose their house over their paycheck and to choose their moral compass over that paycheck.
[32:42] And, and I get it, it's not easy. It's simple, but not easy.
[32:48] Yeah, we walk alongside people. And so that's, that's how we do it currently. But we've also created a platform and I've been creating it for a year and a half and I've been offered all sorts of other platforms, but I know this is going to be the best because it's going to last forever and it's going to overtake any sort of structure that we have in our health and education system.
[33:09] So we have been very patient to create that. But when that platform, there'll be triaging through that platform and we can see people in mass.
[33:19] Michelle: Yeah, that sounds like such a cool process and something that's really effective and quickly because you want to be able to help those individuals in a really meaningful and quick way.
[33:40] Jacqui: That nurse will come in and like me, like when I started discovering,
[33:46] and then when they're in front of their clients or patients, then the ripple effect's massive. So rather than working on individuals, we definitely work on those who are in the front line,
[33:58] who are actually on the ground in front of our most vulnerable citizens. So whether it's children circle, dying and then it just, it just ripple effects out so much faster than if we just, if we just work with individuals.
[34:11] But we do group work, we do individual work, we do retreats, we accommodate people.
[34:19] And sometimes they're like that example you gave in burnout and in survival mode, but other times they're actually wanting to avoid burnout so they come and access our support so that they can create and provide these services and their expertise and their wisdom and be sustainable to be able to deliver that.
[34:46] And that's where we come in. Through our grants and through our sponsorship, we're able to support those to actually continue offering the expertise without burning out. And we've also got service providers who have been educated in New Zealand but no longer live in New Zealand.
[35:06] But we were able to support them to still provide society their expertise and their experience and their wisdom.
[35:16] Michelle: Well, again, I think it's such a great model, especially the group modalities, because especially somebody that's gone through your program and now they're,
[35:30] you know, up there leading a group. It's like if just a full circle effect. Right.
[35:38] It's like they've gone through the healing and now they are helping others heal just as you did.
[35:47] Yeah, that's really cool. Yeah.
[35:49] Jacqui: So I call it feminizing. Feminizing the health and education system. I really,
[35:53] before capitalism and patriarchy, that's how it was. So I'm not talking about womanizing, I'm talking about feminizing. So collaboration, community,
[36:03] community -ead, soul-driven.
[36:05] Michelle: Yeah, that's a good distinction that you made. Well, I'm going to switch gears here for a moment and I'm going to go to your Instagram because I, I'm a big fan of Instagram and, and you have a great one.
[36:18] And so in one of your recent Instagram posts, you discussed AI and AI is all in the news right now, right?
[36:27] So you said AI isn't just for tech bros. It's for dreamers, healers, and anyone rewriting the rules of health and care. And so Jacqui, can you elaborate on that?
[36:40] Jacqui: Yeah, sure. I,
[36:42] when AI came in, I was like, oh,
[36:48] oh. And I sort of remember when electric cigarettes or vaping came in and I remember thinking, oh yeah, this will be good. You know, this will take it, you know, this will help.
[36:58] And anyway,
[37:01] it's gone pear shaped really. You know, people that didn't smoke now vaping. Anyway, I thought, what can I do to put a positive spin into this?
[37:12] And so I dived into AI a little bit and I thought, oh, okay, there is actually some goodness in this.
[37:22] And then I've read some articles and I've seen how male-dominant it's been and I thought, wow, we need to put some feminine voice into this.
[37:34] And so I've been using it and had such fun with it. So much fun with it. I, I dream and I use dream analysis every morning. So I put into AI, can you please analyze this dream using a Carl Jung lens?
[37:50] So I use it for my psychotherapy, my own. I say can you offer me the leading psychologist's response to this and then I also will often put in things like roast me and it'll come back with just great sense of humor
[38:14] around me.
[38:17] And then recently I put in, can you please tell me what my 70 year old self would tell my present self?
[38:24] And so for me, I feel like I'm contributing to it so that it, so a positive spin comes out of it and I believe that what it needs is a feminine touch.
[38:40] And so that's what I meant by that. And I think,
[38:45] yeah, I think just like the vaping, you know,
[38:50] there's a positive side to it and potentially a sort of shadow side to it and if we can get in quick and keep more of a light side to it, then it's possibly going to serve us.
[39:05] But I could be wrong. I don't know, I could be wrong, but I feel like I need to do my bit now because that's what I think with vaping, we really missed the opportunity there.
[39:17] Michelle: Yeah,
[39:18] I love how your brain works, Jacqui.
[39:22] I'm in awe. Like, okay, you take this AI program, you know, which is artificial intelligence and you're like, it's not giving enough feminine energy. And so I'm going to put feminine energy in and hopefully we'll get feminine energy out.
[39:41] And that's like,
[39:43] how does somebody's brain think like that? That's amazing.
[39:47] Jacqui: I think though, Michelle, I think the more that you heal your boundary wounds, the more that you let go of those limiting beliefs. And I'm now in menopause, so, you know, it's pretty magical in that respect.
[40:01] Like, you really, you really don't care.
[40:05] Like all these wise women said that to me and I was like, I just can't, I can't imagine it,
[40:13] but it really does happen. And yeah, I just really believe that we need to see more wise woman stepping up because we are the most powerful, the feminine energy is the most powerful energy.
[40:23] Like, and we create life, you know, we boost life and, and then it's only us whales and elephants that, that go through the evolution of menopause. And how amazing is it that we still want to create, but we don't have to fear, worry,
[40:39] put energy into actually creating another life. So it's a pretty magical time. And I think you've nailed it. Like I, the downloads that I get and the visions that I get, I'm just now like, wow, let's give it a go.
[40:55] What do we got to lose and the answer's nothing.
[41:01] Michelle: Yeah. I love that energy and. And I love your philosophy. And, you know, I'm 60, and so I find the older I get, I am starting to perfect the subtle art of not giving a fuck.
[41:16] Jacqui: Yeah,
[41:17] right. Well,
[41:19] to see examples of it. And through our movie and TV watching and book reading, and potentially through our mothers and grandmothers,
[41:30] they wanted to be like that, but there wasn't a revolution. There wasn't a team of others doing it. So I now fully understand, you know, and you always had. You always had like a crazy auntie in your family.
[41:45] I fully understand crazy auntie.
[41:51] That is so funny.
[41:53] Michelle: It couldn't be more topical. My brother and my niece just visited from San Diego for three days, and it was just a wonderful visit. And my niece is 15, and there were times when I caught myself thinking,
[42:07] She's probably thinking I got a crazy aunt.
[42:16] Michelle: Oh, my gosh, that's so fun.
[42:20] Yeah. Here's to crazy ants everywhere.
[42:24] All right, I want to talk about one more of your Instagram posts. And this was somebody that you had on your podcast, Ellie Bambury, Soul-First Grief Guide.
[42:36] And so the quote is, grief isn't just about major life losses. It can be about anything that's left you feeling disoriented or lost, whether it's a breakup, a move, or a shift in your identity.
[42:50] And so, Jacqui, do you think nurses are grieving collectively and individually? What do you think about that?
[42:59] Jacqui: I think I actually seriously do. And interestingly, everything that I offer is what I'm actually going through at the time.
[43:07] So when I look back on all my workshops, it's like I was going through that. So that's why I created a workshop and collaborated. So same thing. I was going through grief.
[43:15] So for me, one of my daughters left home and I transitioned from perimenopause into menopause, which was a massive dismantling. And it's been a huge rebuilding. And so huge grief.
[43:27] Huge. I experienced huge grief,
[43:30] and I didn't really know what to do with it. So I reached out to Ellie, who's this divine, gorgeous, sentient being who is on this earth doing a magical, magical work.
[43:40] She's only 30 years young. She's phenomenal. And so I just feel such a desire to amplify and activate her and for more people to see her in the world.
[43:51] And so we. We've co-created a few times. We've got another event coming up and. And the program's called Glitter And Grief which I absolutely adore because,
[44:00] you know, when you get glitter on your, on your body, it's very difficult. It's on there for a long time. It's hard to get off. But also glitter's very sparkly.
[44:08] So seeing the glitter and in the grief, because it's not gonna go anywhere.
[44:13] And. But yeah, when it comes back to your nursing question,
[44:17] so much, so much now, like, I just. I just. Yeah, it just brings pain in my heart because,
[44:25] you know, we've been through so much. We've seen so much and so often I. Because I was a pediatric nurse and a neonatal nurse and a. And a woman's nurse and as a nurse manager
[44:36] So much, I've seen so much.
[44:38] And we literally just went from one experience and then just knocked on the door and went to the other. There was so little chance for us to actually really sit with that feeling.
[44:49] And the beautiful thing with grief is that you can. It's so alchemical. And I don't know if you saw a quote I wrote recently. It's from Dr. Zach Bush, who you are very lucky to have from your country.
[45:01] I went and saw him speak there before last, and he said, it is the mother's and the grandmother's grief that is alchemized into love that it's going to create like we've never created before.
[45:12] That's going to create the change in this world. And when you think about, you know,
[45:18] I don't know the stats anymore, but maybe 80% of nurses woman,
[45:24] even if they're not women, you know, they've got that caring, sensitive desire to be of service,
[45:31] then if we can create spaces to actually really sit with that grief, then we, then we are in the position to create the change that is needed in the world.
[45:42] And there is very little opportunity. I've. I've got a nurse in Australia, actually, who. And you wouldn't think it, meeting her, but she actually has created this movement in Australia.
[45:55] She's a. She's a perioperative nurse. And after every surgery, regardless of how it's gone, they actually create sacred ceremony.
[46:06] So those little things. And when I work with nieces who do stay in traditional roles, it's those sacred moments that I encourage them to create some gratitude and release so that they can move on to the next.
[46:27] So, yeah, I do. Nurses, I think we've had huge, huge grief. And,
[46:33] it sits.
[46:35] I'm not actually sure where grief sits in the body, but possibly in the heart.
[46:40] And you think about how many of your colleagues, you know, who have had like a breast cancer or there's so much dis-ease in frontline working professions because I believe we haven't had opportunities to erase the feelings and the experiences that we've had.
[47:01] And we just know. We know through, you know, Gaba Mate's work and so many other people's work that our experiences and our environments manifest our physical and mental reality. It's not that we're not strong enough or not resilient enough.
[47:15] It's none of those. It's that we're actually not living to our true human design.
[47:22] And our body tells us or our mind tells us. And so when I work with frontline workers or anybody, I inside, I have a little dance when they find us and when they're feeling rough, because I know that we can help them bloom again very easily.
[47:42] Very easily. And we've all got lived experience. And that's the beauty of the wise woman, the wisdom keeper, is we've had the dismantling, we're doing the rebuilding, and we can hold space for those who are still to come.
[47:58] Michelle: Yeah, I feel like grief is the elephant in the room. And now after doing so many interviews with so many nurses, you know, we talk about it really briefly and kind of gloss over it, and I think we have this feeling that, you know, yeah, it's there, but I just have to go on and I just.
[48:19] And we do. And, you know, then we get labeled resilient and. And all of that. And I think when Covid happened,
[48:28] it brought out, we suffered such moral distress,
[48:33] you know, from how things were going.
[48:36] And we had such grief. But I think it came out in the form of like, just burnout. Like, I can't care anymore. I am hurting. I'm not even caring for myself.
[48:49] And yeah, such a huge wave of that.
[48:54] Jacqui: I think the thing is, is that you'll find a lot of nurses or a lot of frontline workers are visionaries as well. So we actually can see what is needed
[49:06] But we can't do it alone. We, you know, we're powerful alone, but we're potent when we're actually in community.
[49:15] And that's part of Heart Place Hospital is building community so that we can be potent.
[49:21] And,
[49:22] you know, I've done activism, I've done all that sort of work, and I know now it's about creating the new so alchemizing that grief into love and creating the new.
[49:35] And when we, when we understand and celebrate ourselves,
[49:39] it's a lot easier to do. But when you're pushing through limiting beliefs, when you're pushing through adaptations that are no longer serving, it's big work. Yeah.
[49:52] Michelle: Yes. Well, tell me about Heart Place Hospital as far as how do we support it? Is it solely with donations and sponsorships? Talk about that.
[50:04] Jacqui: Yeah, I think,
[50:07] Thank you for asking.
[50:10] Asking for help.
[50:12] I'm asking for help, which I thought I was doing, but I think I must have been whispering. Whereas now, now I'm asking for help with a big loud voice and standing strong.
[50:26] So loving and sharing is really important. It's really helpful. So we're on Instagram and Facebook, but the YouTube channel, it's Heart Place Hospital,
[50:38] definitely. Of course. Always resource is always important. We have such a belief around energy reciprocity. So money is great for sure, definitely need it. But also energy reciprocity is so good.
[50:52] So if anyone wants to reach out. Curious.
[50:55] I love collaborating. My zone of genius is taking opportunities to connect and you know, like I look at some of our biggest donations, I've stepped them back and it's been through, it's been eight points.
[51:10] Like I've met someone who's introduced me to someone who's introduced me to someone who's. And it's been eight points. I'm like, wow,
[51:16] you know, that's why it's important. So, yeah, loving and sharing us, following us, connecting with us and any sort of energy exchange would be very welcome.
[51:28] And yeah,
[51:31] my vision is global, starting in New Zealand. I often tell Americans this. So New Zealand actually got the first woman's vote in the world in 1893, 21 years before America.
[51:44] So if we can do that, then we can do this for sure.
[51:48] Michelle: I love it. Thank you so much for talking about that. And I want to hear about your podcast. I love your podcast. So tell me, why did you start it and who can we expect to hear on your podcast?
[52:02] Jacqui: Yeah, I started it for actually when I first started it's. But it's morphed.
[52:09] I started it because I had an Acacia record read and they said that you start a podcast.
[52:18] Michelle: Right.
[52:20] Jacqui: So I did that
[52:22] But I wanted the pain to purpose stories to be heard.
[52:28] So most of the people have conventionally trained educators or health professionals and have cutting edge modalities and it's been their pain to purpose stories that have, that have driven them soul led them to, to create these offerings.
[52:44] I also have done it because I want people because it's very difficult to access conventional healthcare at the moment for anybody. And so I wanted to open people's eyes up to other opportunities.
[53:03] Very integrative. So not alternative. It's integrative and because it's delivered by people who have been conventionally trained generally. So I wanted, I wanted to amplify these people and their phenomenal and for their bravery for showing up with this work and help them create a sustainable offering.
[53:25] I also have found it's been great for those guests to practice and show up and talk about themselves because often people in these roles don't necessarily have that visibility ability.
[53:43] So being able to kind of crack that cherry, so to speak.
[53:47] And then it's also been so the podcasts are used all the time. They're not just what launched and then sat. So we put them into all our care plans. And then it's also been great for our donors and sponsors to see what we're offering and helping them understand because it is an enigma.
[54:11] It is outside the box. Although that's changing.
[54:16] But, and I think it's really nice because a lot of people, mine was included nine years ago, what mindset is because the doctor said and so when we actually do these podcasts and this doctor is saying something, then it gives them more of a whole person view of our multidimensionalness and that,
[54:38] you know, a pill's not gonna,
[54:41] not necessarily enough. There are other ways that can support us and the ripple effect is massive, right? So if we can, if we can actually get to the root cause and support your whole person, then we then stop,
[54:55] potentially stop you needing tertiary care, which is going to enable us to create a sustainable health system. And that's where the education system comes in. I really believe it needs to start much earlier.
[55:07] So it's been proven that our school system is an indoctrination and then we're having to help these young people unlearn and remember and celebrate and understand themselves when we literally could be doing it in the 13 years at school system.
[55:24] Michelle: Well, I love your podcast and I love your guests. They're always so intriguing and it's a medium, it's a great platform for getting the word out and it is our job as hosts to really help our guests shine.
[55:42] Right. And, to help get their message out to the world. And you certainly do that with yours. So I love It.
[55:52] Jacqui: Thank you.
[55:53] Michelle: Yeah. Well, is there someone that you would recommend as a guest on this podcast?
[56:00] Jacqui: Oh, yeah. Easy. Yeah, no problem. Sweet. We'll have to talk. Yeah.
[56:08] Michelle: Okay. Love it.
[56:10] Jacqui: My zone of genius is connecting people with other people. So no problem.
[56:15] Michelle: Okay. I would love it. Thank you so much. And where can we find you, Jacqui?
[56:21] Jacqui: So our website's heartplacehospital.org.nz we're on Instagram, there's Heart Place Hospital, Facebook @heartplace Hospital. Or my personal profile is public, Jacqui O'Connor.
[56:36] And then on LinkedIn is Jacqui O'Connor or Heart Place Hospital. And then YouTube Heart Place Hospital. And Spotify. And Spotify Heart Place Hospital with Jacqui O'Connor.
[56:46] Michelle: Yay. Okay, I'll put all this in the show notes.
[56:49] Jacqui: Yeah.
[56:50] Michelle: So everyone can find you. And this has been a fascinating conversation today, Jacqui. Before we went on air, I said to myself, I feel like I know Jacqui, like I've known you for a long time and I don't know why that is, but I just feel like we have this connection that is wonderful and I'm just so glad that we met and I'm so glad that you came on to share Heart Place Hospital with everybody. Thank you so much.
[57:27] Jacqui: Thank you, Michelle. And I just want to thank you for creating these platforms. It's really important that we do this so that these messages do get spread far and wide so that people have the opportunity of finding out things that they didn't know because that definitely was me.
[57:47] And it's sort of certainly how I've created my growth is being curious and discovering these types of platforms so that I can get a wider view of the world.
[57:59] Michelle: Yeah, a wider view of the world. I love that we get so compartmentalized, right? And you work in integrative medicine, if you will. And it's wonderful. And thank you for those kind words.
[58:16] I love it. And we're at the end, Jacqui so that means we're ready to play the five-minute snippet. It's just five minutes of fun. It's a chance for everyone to see the off-duty side of Jacqui when she's not being a philanthropist and,
[58:34] a wellness coach and all of those things that you are. So are you ready to play?
[58:40] Jacqui: I'm ready.
[59:22] Michelle: It's fun. Okay. Convince me to live in New Zealand.
[59:27] Jacqui: I think with New Zealand, the beautiful part of New Zealand is that we've got everything. We've got the oceans, we've got the mountains, we've got the ski fields, we've got the lakes, we've got the rivers, we've got the bushwalks, we've got the cities, we've got the adventure.
[59:42] And you know,
[59:45] you're never too far from the edge. So I think that's the beauty of New Zealand.
[59:51] And I think it's not America. There you go.
[59:57] It's far away from America. There you go.
[01:00:00] Michelle: Oh, my gosh. Sign me up. Sign me up. Okay. All right. What's the first thing you do when you arrive at your travel destination?
[01:00:10] Jacqui: Ooh. Oh, generally it's near the ocean, so I'll have a swim.
[01:00:15] Michelle: Okay, that sounds great. Let's see. Would you rather eat breakfast for dinner or dinner for breakfast?
[01:00:23] Jacqui: Oh, actually, don't mind. I'm sort of on a new eating regime, so I have changed my breakfast to more of a meal as opposed to a cereal.
[01:00:37] And then often at dinner time, I'm sort of switching again. I'm having a bigger lunch, so I don't mind. I wouldn't mind having a smaller sort of morsel at dinner time.
[01:00:48] So I'm just gonna go cool with both.
[01:00:55] Michelle: I love it. Okay. Did you have a favorite childhood game?
[01:00:59] Jacqui: I roller skated as a child.
[01:01:03] I played netball as a child.
[01:01:07] Oh, netball. You don't know?
[01:01:10] I guess it's like basketball, but you can't run with it or bounce the ball, so you've got to catch stationary. Yeah, it's one of our national sports, actually.
[01:01:21] And popular with women and interesting with the roller skating during lockdown. Because we were locked down for two years,
[01:01:29] a whole bunch of us bought roller skates again. And we would meet at empty car parks and roller skates. We were allowed outside.
[01:01:36] So my roller skating revived in my late 40s.
[01:01:41] Michelle: I love it. I love roller skating. So much fun. Okay, finish this sentence. If I had a million dollars, I_______
[01:01:49] Jacqui: Would expand Heart Place Hospital immediately.
[01:01:55] Michelle: I felt like you were gonna go there. And that's a worthy project, right?
[01:02:02] Okay. This is an Imagine this. So imagine this, Jacqui. You're laying in a meadow at night stargazing. What are you feeling?
[01:02:14] Jacqui: This happens quite often.
[01:02:17] I am feeling the grass underneath me, and I am feeling like I am part of a massive cosmos,
[01:02:26] and I am creating my beauty in that part of the cosmos.
[01:02:32] Michelle: That's beautiful. Finish this sentence, thunder and lightning make me feel_____
[01:02:45] Jacqui: Alive. Yeah.
[01:02:46] Michelle: Would you rather swim with dolphins or cuddle with pandas?
[01:02:51] Jacqui: Swim with dolphins.
[01:02:57] Michelle: Oh, my gosh. How wonderful. Wow. That's gotta be magical.
[01:03:02] Jacqui: Yeah.
[01:03:02] Michelle: Okay, last one. Favorite movie theater snack?
[01:03:08] Jacqui: Ooh. I'm gonna go old school and go popcorn.
[01:03:14] Michelle: Butter or no butter?
[01:03:19] Jacqui: I think definitely butter. Yeah, butter.
[01:03:22] Michelle: Jacqui, you did amazing in the five-minute snippet.
[01:03:25] Jacqui: Aw, that was fun. Thank you.
[01:03:28] Michelle: Yeah, it is fun.
[01:03:30] It kind of makes people a little bit nervous, especially those type A people, you know, because it's kind of like you're on the spot, but you didn't have a problem with it at all.
[01:03:42] And we got to have a peek into a little bit more who Jacqui is. So thank you so much for that and thank you for sharing everything about your journey,
[01:03:52] about the creation of Heart Place Hospital, and who you help and how you help and why you help. Thank you so much, Jacqui.
[01:04:03] Jacqui: Thanks, Michelle.
