Nurse on Purpose, Chinelo Okoye

Chinelo Okoye is a remarkable double-board-certified nurse practitioner specializing in both adult and pediatric care. Beyond her clinical expertise, she passionately advocates for the representation of nurses in the media. As the founder of Nurse on Purpose, she works to eliminate stereotypes and showcase the intelligence, professionalism, leadership skills, and dedication to patient care that nurses embody.

 I had a candid conversation with Chinelo about my complacency regarding the negative portrayal of nurses. I acknowledged the hypersexualized Halloween costumes and the disheartening narratives in shows like Nurse Jackie and One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, which depict nurses in such a negative light. Despite recognizing that these portrayals didn't reflect the true essence of nursing, I realized I had not actively challenged these misrepresentations—sadly, I didn't even get angry about it.

 What are the consequences if we choose to ignore the media's misconceptions about us? Chinelo emphasized that our ability to attract new nurses to the profession diminishes when potential candidates see these negative portrayals. Moreover, it impacts nurse retention. After all, why would a brilliant nurse remain in a field that is so inaccurately represented?

Through her Nurse on Purpose podcast, Chinelo elevates the image of nursing by showcasing nurses as innovators, advocates, leaders, and entrepreneurs, demonstrating the diverse and impactful roles that real nurses play. As author Robert Byrne aptly stated, “The purpose of life is a life of purpose,” and Chinelo is undoubtedly embodying that purpose every day.

In the five-minute snippet: She’s in the dog house and she’s not sad about it. For Chinelo's bio, visit my website (link below).

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Transcript

[00:00] Michelle: Chinelo Okoye is a remarkable double-board-certified nurse practitioner specializing in both adult and pediatric care.

[00:09] Beyond her clinical expertise, she passionately advocates for the representation of nurses in the media.

[00:16] As the founder of Nurse on Purpose, she works to eliminate stereotypes and showcase the intelligence, professionalism, leadership skills, and dedication to patient care that nurses embody.

[00:31] I had a candid conversation with Chinelo about my complacency regarding the negative portrayal of nurses.

[00:39] I acknowledged the hypersexualized Halloween costumes and the disheartening narratives in the shows like Nurse Jackie and One Flew over the Cuckoo's Nest, which depict nurses in such a negative light.

[00:53] Despite recognizing that these portrayals didn't reflect the true essence of nursing, I realized I had not actively challenged these misrepresentations.

[01:03] Sadly, I didn't even get angry about it. But what are the consequences if we choose to ignore the media's misconceptions about us?

[01:12] Chinelo emphasized that our ability to attract new nurses to the profession diminishes when potential candidates see these negative portrayals. Moreover, it impacts nurse retention.

[01:26] After all, why would a brilliant nurse remain in a field that is so inaccurately represented?

[01:33] Through her Nurse on Purpose podcast, Chinelo elevates the image of nursing by showcasing nurses as innovators, advocates, leaders, and entrepreneurs, demonstrating the diverse and impactful roles that real nurses play.

[01:49] As author Robert Byrne aptly stated, "The purpose of life is a life of purpose," and Chinelo is undoubtedly embodying that purpose every day. In the five-minute snippet: She's in the doghouse and she's not sad about it.

[02:23] Well, good morning, Chinelo. Welcome to the podcast.

[02:27] Chinelo: Thank you so much for having me, Michelle. It's a great honor to be on your platform today. Appreciate it.

[02:36] Michelle: Oh my gosh, thank you so much. And I just love what you're doing with the Nurse on Purpose podcast and we'll talk about that. Yeah,

[02:44] but I just want to know a little bit about you. Just introduce yourself. Who is Chinelo and what are you all about?

[02:52] Chinelo: Yeah, thank you.

[02:54] So I have to say that my podcast, you know, was greatly inspired by you. And I know we're going to talk about that later, but just to get into my background, I was born and raised in Nigeria.

[03:09] I, you know, all my formative years were there. I completed high school and eventually migrated to the States for college. So this was around 2003 or 4, about when I came here.

[03:26] I wasn't sure what I wanted to do. I, you know, initially thought I wanted to be an accountant, just following in the footsteps of mom.

[03:34] And that was kind of my path throughout high school. You know, we had this thing where we could pick arts or sciences, and I was always in the arts because I was like, yeah, my mom's an accountant.

[03:45] She's like my only frame of reference. I didn't know anything else. And so I was like, yeah, I'm going to be an accountant.

[03:51] It wasn't until I think that freshman year in college that I really started to consider different options because I didn't really have a strong why for,

[04:03] for accounting. And I wasn't, I don't know, I just wasn't so interested in the accounting principles. Like I didn't really find that joy in it.

[04:13] And then a friend of mine said to me, you know, you're kind, you know, you love people, you love kids. Why don't you consider nursing? And I'm like, huh,

[04:23] where did that come from? Like, that was totally not on my radar. Nothing healthcare, just never considered. It was always scared of injections and everything hospital related.

[04:35] So that was such a far-fetched idea.

[04:39] However, I decided to do more research. And so I started to look into other professions and say, well, maybe there's something here for me. I'll go ahead and apply to nursing school.

[04:51] And I was going to apply as a transfer student, which a lot of people said it's going to be near impossible to get in. Like, it's hard to get into nursing school if you don't get in immediately directly from high school.

[05:04] Getting in as a transfer student is like, don't even bother, you know, and make sure you apply to like five schools just in case.

[05:12] Well, I was like, I'm not even that interested in it. So let me just apply to one school and if I don't get it, I'll just take that as my sign that I wasn't supposed to do it.

[05:23] And so I went ahead and I applied as a transfer student.

[05:27] And all the people that told me that I wouldn't get in didn't get in. And I got in. And I was like, whoa,

[05:35] I actually got in. Now what? You know,

[05:38] and so that was your sign. And that was my sign. And I was like, all right, I'll take it as a sign, you know, whatever. Because I just didn't know what I wanted to do.

[05:45] At that point. And so I was seeking really, what is my path. And so I took that as a sign and, yeah, that's how I. That's how I found myself in nursing.

[05:55] And it's been a wonderful journey so far.

[05:58] Michelle: That's just amazing. I thank you so much for telling your story. I. I am such a big nerd. I love to hear it. And I was thinking about this the other day, and I thought, you know, all the years that I was working as a nurse, I don't think I ever asked any of my nursing colleagues,

[06:17] why are you a nurse? What interested you about it? Like, we don't do that with each other, you know? And so now I'm getting to hear all these fantastic stories, and I just love them.

[06:31] So thank you so much for, for, for telling it.

[06:34] Chinelo: Thank you.

[06:35] Michelle: Okay, so now you're a nurse. And did you go, what area of practice did you go into?

[06:42] Chinelo: Yeah, so when I was.

[06:45] Right before, actually, before I went into nursing school, I had a young nephew. My nephew was just born, so I got to take care of him for many months before I actually even started college at all.

[06:58] I'm the last of five, so I never had any other kids to take care of until him. And because of that, I developed a love for pediatrics. I just love the kids.

[07:08] I don't know what it is. I'm just, like, in love with them. I. And when I was a student, a nursing student, I decided I was going to do my, like, immersion in.

[07:20] In the pediatric unit. And not, not just my immersion, but, you know, we had these. What do they call them? They are externships is what we call, like, when you're a third year, fourth year, you get to do a shadowing experience.

[07:34] And I did that at a pediatric rehabilitation facility.

[07:39] Listen, Michelle, I was in love. I, like, remember some of the kids, and I would, like, look forward to going in just to see them. I love their care. I loved even, just, like, the little dosage calculations that I would do with the nurse.

[07:53] I thought all of it was fantastic. And they really spoke to my heart. And not to mention the unit was very colorful and playful. So it made me feel like, you know, I was going to play even though I was going to work.

[08:04] I mean, that's how I picked that specialty.

[08:08] And so while I was, you know, when I finished my nursing degree with my NCLEX and everything passed,

[08:16] I always knew that I would go into, you know, pediatrics.

[08:20] And that was my entire focus was pediatrics. And so 

[08:26] When I decided to apply for, you know, NP school, I applied to be to obtain my pediatric NP certification. That was my focus.

[08:36] And then I was working while I was doing that. But while working as a nurse, I, you know, I. I worked with adults. I worked with pediatricians, pediatric patients. I worked in different settings.

[08:47] And then I came to find out, you know what? Adults are not that bad. I don't. They're not terrible. I could also work with adults, but at that point, I was already in school and I was already, like, sort of halfway into completing that pediatric program.

[09:02] So I decided to complete it. But I knew that at some point I would go back and certify so I could broaden my scope. Um, and so during the pandemic was like, the perfect opportunity.

[09:13] I was able to kind of start back again and get a postmaster certification.

[09:19] And so now I can see adults and pediatrics.

[09:23] Michelle: Yeah. I saw your double board certified, and I was like, wow, that's amazing.

[09:29] Yeah. And, man, Chinelo, I share your love for pediatrics. And I went in right out of school. And my decision making process for choosing PEDS was, this was in 1985 when I graduated.

[09:45] And it was, there was a nursing glut.

[09:49] There were actually not a lot of jobs available.

[09:53] And so I got to choose between oncology. I was like, no, yuck.

[10:01] Orthopedics.

[10:03] I forget what the other one was. There were only four positions. And pediatrics.

[10:07] Chinelo: Yeah.

[10:07] Michelle: And my reasoning was, oh, you know, I came from a family of eight kids, and I have lots of younger brothers and sisters and. And I like kids. And, you know, how hard could it be?

[10:19] Chinelo: Oh, my goodness.

[10:22] Michelle: Right.

[10:23] Chinelo: Yeah.

[10:23] Michelle: So naive. So naive. But once I got over being terrified, it didn't last long, thankfully.

[10:32] I just loved it. And. And like you, I loved hearing you say, you know, that the unit was colorful and fun and there were fun pictures on the wall and there was a playroom.

[10:45] Toys.

[10:47] Yeah, that was. That was my thing, too. I love that.

[10:50] Chinelo: Yeah.

[10:52] Michelle: Wow. Yeah.

[10:53] Chinelo: Great times, heartstrings, those kids.

[10:56] Michelle: Oh, my gosh. Yeah.

[10:57] Chinelo: And now I have a two-year old and I'm like, oh, sit down. You're too active. Right. She's a joy.

[11:06] Michelle: I know.

[11:06] Chinelo: Oh, my goodness.

[11:07] Michelle: Oh, my gosh, too. That's such a fun age. I just think every age is a fun age.

[11:12] Chinelo: Yeah.

[11:13] Michelle: Okay, well, I want to talk about your capstone project. So I was really interested in this because, again, I nerd out on all this stuff, but I imagine this was during your nurse practitioner program, is that correct?

[11:27] Chinelo: It actually was after my nurse practitioner program. So I, after my nurse practitioner program, I then decided to do a one year fellowship program.

[11:37] And, and that was also in pediatrics. And that was the year 20, about 2016. It was. So it was 2016 to 2017.

[11:46] And that capstone project was titled Don't Call Me Mid-level. Oh my goodness, love it. Um, and it really stemmed from a gut reaction that I had when I first started hearing the term mid-level provider.

[12:02] And other terms I heard were like a non physician provider or physician extender. And I didn't know, yeah, like I didn't know what the research was about the use of those terms, but all I knew was that it just struck me as like diminishing.

[12:19] I don't know, it just struck me as being so inaccurate, like, why the term mid-level? And so, you know, I decided to explore, like, whether there was actual research on the impact of these labels, because I know that the words that you use and the labels that you give to things can truly have an impact on how people perceive that thing.

[12:41] And so it was important to me to know how my patients perceived it. And so in my research was I found that the term mid-level was created by physicians in 2012.

[12:53] And I kind of figured that it wasn't created by nurse practitioners or PAs.

[12:58] And it's been used to kind of categorize advanced practice nurses and physicians assistants. But the hurtful thing about it is that mid level implies that there is some hierarchy.

[13:14] Rather than recognizing nurse practitioners as independent, as highly trained professionals,

[13:21] it made us seem less than, like we were somewhere between a physician and a nurse. And when you hear the word mid-level,

[13:30] it makes you feel like it connotes that the care that you're providing is also mid level. And as a patient who wants to be given mid-level care, right. And so I had a really big issue with the use of that term.

[13:46] And even organizations like the DEA, I found the Department of Justice still uses that term on their official website, you know, which I thought was frustrating. So fast forward, I decided to conduct a research on how the use of the term mid-level was perceived by patients.

[14:06] Right. And for my research, you know, it was a survey based study and I conducted it at the institution where I worked for the year. And patients in the waiting room were just given a four question survey.

[14:17] It was completely anonymous. They didn't know that they were submitting it to me or who, who it was going to. And in I had four questions, right? I said that, you know, they were asked to choose from terms like, you know, who would you want to be seen by today?

[14:33] And the options were a mid-level provider, an advanced practice provider, a physician extender, a non physician provider, or like, simply use the provider's name and title. And overwhelmingly, I want to say it was like 78 or so percent of patients preferred either full names with professional titles like Nurse Practitioner McDowell or advanced practice provider versus mid-levels or physician extenders.

[15:04] And I also asked in my other three questions, why did you pick this option? And so I gave them, you know, options. It was like, it doesn't matter to me as long as I get good care.

[15:17] And then most of them said that it made them feel more confident in the, in the care that they would receive. Right. So those responses really highlighted to me that the way we refer to professionals directly influences public perception.

[15:33] It influences trust and it influences respect. Right. And so even though it was a small scale study, the results were clear. Right. So using ambiguous terms like mid-level, it doesn't just misrepresent our role, it also tears at the seam and it erodes trust and, you know, authority, the authority that we build with our patients.

[15:57] And it just showed me that language matters when referring to, you know, your profession and the professionals that represent that profession. And we, we need to be more intentional about how we define ourselves.

[16:12] Michelle: Really fascinating. And I would love to see that. You know, I'm totally convinced because just as you were explaining the selection,

[16:26] I'm thinking I would want the advanced practice because just to say that connotes and, you know, a higher level.

[16:37] Chinelo: Yes, absolutely.

[16:38] Michelle: Right. Yeah. And man, I would love to see that replicated on a really large scale.

[16:44] Chinelo: Yes, for sure.

[16:45] Michelle: That would be very cool. So is that something that led you to Nurse on Purpose? Let's talk about Nurse on Purpose.

[16:52] Chinelo: Yeah, because, yeah,

[16:55] a Nurse on Purpose. I love talking about this so much. It comes from a place of both pain and love, I have to say, kind of intersect. And I think that that's where purpose is born most of the time, is where you feel your pain.

[17:10] Point is, and what you would love to see change.

[17:13] So for me, it was the case.

[17:16] So I talked about how I grew up in Nigeria. Right. If you talk to any Nigerian or African immigrant or just immigrant, period, you will learn quickly that the families really place a high premium on professions like medicine, law and engineering.

[17:36] So if you're not one of those three things, it's like you have failed the family.

[17:41] You know, it really does feel that way. And so when I decided to pick nursing, oh, my goodness, it was like anything but, like, be a pharmacist, like, be something else, but don't be a nurse.

[17:53] Because nursing just was not respected as a profession, period in Nigeria. It just wasn't. And we're still fighting to gain some of that respect.

[18:03] So I quickly started to notice that the images that I was seeing in my real life work, like the nurses that I was encountering, were brilliant.

[18:16] You know, they were,

[18:19] They were innovative, they were critical thinkers,

[18:23] they had so much skill and expertise.

[18:26] But it wasn't congruent with what we were exposed to in media. And we all know that people go to the media for information. That's where they get, you know, their,

[18:38] That's where they get their news. And it largely forms public perception and public opinion. And so in looking at how nurses were portrayed in media, I saw that there was such a gap in the real work that we did versus how the media showed us and what they showed us to do,

[19:00] right? We would stand around or just hold a clipboard for the physician, or yes, sir, no, sir, or just not even present at all. We're silent.

[19:09] And then I figured, if I want to do something to change this,

[19:15] because it's a pain point for me, because I felt that my decision to pursue my chosen career was not supported in that way. And, you know, this, these are people I love.

[19:25] So they were coming from a place of real concern. It wasn't like, they're just random folks. These are my, like, trusted and, you know, loved ones.

[19:36] So it really put a burden in my heart to say, I want to change the narrative of nursing so that those people that I love, these people that I love and others in the public will, you know, will stop seeing nursing as this degrading profession where only people who don't know what else to do or who are not smart enough enter because they couldn't become physicians.

[20:00] Then they pick nursing.

[20:02] So I started Nurse on Purpose with that vision and that mission in mind to transform that history has a way of repeating itself if you don't do anything to radically disrupt it.

[20:16] I mean, this was my way of disrupting it is by using media to challenge and reform media, right? And I've done that by creating that YouTube channel where I review shows and movies that feature a nurse and just point out what.

[20:35] What's wrong? Like, what's wrong with this image? And what could we have done better? And now with the podcast, I am also doing the same, right? Shining a spotlight on nurses who are doing incredible things in their own arenas and in their own spaces and showing the world that this is who a real nurse is,

[20:54] not that one. Not the sexy nurse, not Nurse Ratched,

[20:59] not the bully nurse, not the wicked nurse. This is who nursing is. And we want to change that landscape so we can really usher nursing into a new era, into a new reality, so we can elevate this profession and foster greater trust, greater respect within our profession.

[21:19] Michelle: Yeah, I love that Chinelo. And,

[21:22] you know, the media has influenced us. Right. Like, whether we say it has or not. And I was thinking of, and you talked about some of those, but I was thinking of some of the famous, like, TV and movie nurses.

[21:40] And Nurse Ratched of course, is one of them. And, you know, she really played the part of a very cruel authoritarian.

[21:47] Chinelo: Yeah, yeah.

[21:48] Michelle: And then Nurse Jackie, which was played by Edie Falco. She's this ER nurse addicted to heroin. You know, her life behind the scenes is completely falling apart.

[22:02] And then I grew up watching MASH, so I watched MASH for about 10 years.

[22:10] And of course, the nurse on there was Margaret Houlihan. Yeah, yeah. Better known as Hot Lips Houlihan. And then Halloween costumes portraying nurses are always extremely degrading,

[22:31] you know, highly sexual.

[22:34] You don't really think. I, for one, didn't really think about how nurses are

[22:45] portrayed in media.

[22:47] Chinelo: Yeah, yeah.

[22:48] Michelle: Really, until I met you.

[22:51] Chinelo: Wow.

[22:52] Michelle: You know, it was something that we just, I think it's so pervasive that we know that that's not who we are when we see that nurse played in the movies or in TV,

[23:07] but we're not really doing anything to change that. Yeah, but you are.

[23:12] Chinelo: Yes. Thank you so much.

[23:14] Michelle: Yeah.

[23:14] Chinelo: And that's interesting to hear because I just thought, like, everyone,

[23:20] you know, it was everyone's, and it is everyone's business,

[23:24] but this is why it's so important to pursue your passion. It's so important because,

[23:30] you know, you are. You know, when everyone does their own bit,

[23:36] there's greater awareness. Right. You bring greater awareness to the issues.

[23:41] Because I might be in my own space thinking, like, this is the thing that truly bothers me. And someone is thinking, oh, that's the thing that truly bothers me. But person A, 

[23:52] The other issues just are not in their purview. It doesn't mean that those issues don't exist or that. But they're just not so kind of moved by it. And I think that's what it means to have a purpose.

[24:05] What is it that really, really moves you, that drives you? When everybody goes after what their purpose is, together we can change things, we can move mountains, we can transform a profession because everyone tackles a different issue because it affects them specifically,

[24:24] you know, and they have a more emotional commitment to it, right? I'm sorry. I didn't mean to. I didn't mean to divert from the nurse portrayals, but I just wanted to really highlight that you said that you never saw it even, you know, before you met me, and imagine if I never took up the mandate. 

[24:47] It's just you still wouldn't have seen it or, like, it wouldn't have been made. You would have been, you know,

[24:53] sort of aware or awakened to that idea. So that's why it's important for everyone to speak up when issues abound. It doesn't matter if other people don't yet know it.

[25:05] When you speak, they will become aware of it. So awareness is important.

[25:10] And those nurse characters. Oh, Michelle, I can't.

[25:14] I mean, from the battle axe stereotype to the, you know, that authoritarian nurse to the morally compromised nurse, Nurse Jackie, to the sexualized, subservient nurse to the, you know, infantilize the sex.

[25:30] I mean, who has time to be sexy, Michelle? Like, we're so busy. That's the reality we know, right?

[25:36] Michelle: And, you know, I will say that I just became complacent to it, and you really brought attention to it, and I found myself, because I was definitely that person that you were just describing of, you know, seeing all of those portrayals of nurses, knowing, you know, this is just bullshit,

[26:00] this isn't who we are, but not really doing anything about it or, Or becoming kind of pissed off about it. And, you know, once I met you and I saw that you were bringing to light these, you know, inadequacies of how we're portrayed,

[26:21] I found myself going,

[26:23] yeah, that's true. Wait, I don't like that. Yeah, you know, she's got a point.

[26:32] Michelle: It seems like a huge undertaking Chinelo, to try to change this, but what steps should we take or what steps are we taking to change some of those stereotypes?

[26:46] Chinelo: Well, that's a great question, and you are right. It is a huge undertaking because I think this eats so deeply. I mean, we're just talking about the United States in many other parts of the world, like, there are nurses who still stand when the physician walks in the room.

[27:04] They still stand by the physician's side when he's, you know, when he's talking to a patient, even if they're not there to do anything specific, there's just a culture of, like, it's a paternalistic culture, right?

[27:18] And that seeps into nursing, and it trickles down into the way we treat our physician partners.

[27:25] And I do need to say that when these, you know, it's important to change, first of all, because when these images sort of dominate the media. We've already talked about how the media forms public opinions, but the other things that it does is that it can also affect the recruitment of nurses,

[27:45] right? It can affect the recruitment of brilliant minds. Because if somebody watches TV and sees that the nurse doesn't really do much, they're going to say, well, I can take my smarts somewhere else.

[27:57] Like, my brain may be better put to use in this other profession. Why would I do nursing? Why would I, you know, pursue nursing as a career when I have all of this to offer?

[28:09] And then it also affects retention, right? Because the nurses who are in the profession, they are demoralized, you know, by the fact that trust and authority is undermined. If, of course, nurses are being seen as hypersexualized and authoritarian, and then it just continues to reinforce gender stereotypes.

[28:32] So that's why it's important to transform the narrative.

[28:37] But what is the solution? How do we do this?

[28:41] I think that one of the ways, and one of the biggest ways we can do it is through amplifying our voices.

[28:48] Everyone that has a platform, or even if you don't have a platform, you know, it's important to highlight your expertise. It's important to, you know, get on podcasts like your own and talk about the real impact that nurses are making.

[29:04] And then in your own personal space as a nurse, the way you show up matters, the way you carry yourself, the way you dress,

[29:12] the depth of your knowledge matters, you know, supporting one another matters. All of the things that nurses have been historically known by nurses eating their young nurses, you know, not.

[29:27] Not standing up to authority.

[29:29] Just whatever it is, we have work to do in our own personal spaces to transform that. And it really starts small, but it starts within, you know, So I think that, you know, using media, for me, the way I hope to change it is using the same platform that I'm trying to change and using media to amplify the voices of nurses,

[29:55] highlighting their work and creating more accurate portrayals of nursing and hopefully that can reshape how the world views us.

[30:04] Michelle: I love it. I love the idea of using media to amplify 

[30:10] Your message that we need to change the way we're portrayed in media.

[30:15] And when I became a nurse in 1986,

[30:21] some very senior nurses at the time on my unit gave me some, I was 21.

[30:27] Chinelo: Yeah.

[30:28] Michelle: You know, they instilled in this.

[30:34] I don't know what to call it, a value? I'm not sure what to call it. But what they said was,

[30:40] you're always a nurse, so wherever you are in the community,

[30:46] you're a nurse. There's a certain way that you hold yourself. There's a certain way that you behave.

[30:55] And I just really took that to heart.

[30:59] And, you know, they said you don't go out and you don't, you know, you don't party and you don't,

[31:06] you know, do crazy things because the community, you're serving the community. And people in the community know you're a nurse.

[31:15] Chinelo: Yeah.

[31:16] Michelle: And they have this expectation of professionals.

[31:20] Chinelo: Absolutely. Absolutely.

[31:22] Michelle: Yeah.

[31:22] Chinelo: I love that.

[31:23] Michelle: Yeah. Oh, man, me too. And I felt that when I met my, my late husband, I felt that he had embodied that because some senior teachers had told him the same thing.

[31:38] They said you're a teacher and you're this person in the community and you have all of these kids that have extensions, you know, their parents and grandparents and friends.

[31:53] Chinelo: Absolutely.

[31:54] Michelle: And you need to hold yourself a certain way when you go out into the community. And I don't know if that message is, is out there anymore.

[32:05] You know, do we?

[32:06] Chinelo: I'm so glad that you mentioned this because I'm in the process of developing a course,

[32:12] and I haven't quite figured out the name of the course, but the content is developing. I'm thinking of calling it something catchy like Elevate: Key Strategies to Elevate the Nursing Profession, or something.

[32:28] Still working on the title there. However,

[32:31] my goal with this course is just what you've talked about is how do we conduct ourselves as nurses? And this is not trying to put like, restriction on anybody's activities 

[32:44] But it's just to understand that, you know, you think about the people that you respect highly or that community or society respects highly. You know, what can you say about them?

[32:55] It's in the way they present themselves. It's in their knowledge. It's their competence, their expertise. It's in their compassion. All of these things together are very important. So this course will have about eight pillars, is what I have currently.

[33:12] Pillars that are strategies for elevating the nursing profession. And I'll read through some of what I have. So professionalism, meaning how you treat patients, because that's top priority. How you treat your colleagues, and then your dress, your physical appearance, which says a lot about your status and also about your professionalism.

[33:34] And the third pillar is knowing your stuff, Right?

[33:37] Because not only, you know, in nursing school, we're very competitive, you know, who's the smartest person and all of that, but also understanding that out in the. In the workforce, the smarts are also highly valued.

[33:51] Right.

[33:52] There's a high value placed on intelligence and, you know, brilliance and ability to communicate and all of that. And then another one is participation in research. Nursing research is important, Right.

[34:07] Those things that affect patient outcomes.

[34:10] Get involved in nursing research if you can, or volunteer with people that are already conducting nursing research, because that's one of the things that classifies a discipline as a STEM discipline is that they develop.

[34:28] Right. Okay. And then media engagement would be another pillar. Right? So publicity, talking about things like the Woodhull study. And then this also includes our social media presence, like your profile picture,

[34:41] your grammar, like how you present yourself in the digital space as well, and then mentorship and, of course, advocacy, you know, so getting engaged in health policy.

[34:55] So I'm working on developing this course and when it's all done with, I would love for students to, you know, schools to adopt it, to be able to bring this to organizations, to healthcare institutions and truly push this message.

[35:13] So that's another plan that I have for Nurse on Purpose.

[35:17] Michelle: Yeah, man, that's fantastic. I love that. I can't wait to see that out.

[35:22] Chinelo: Thank you.

[35:23] Michelle: Out and about. Yeah. And to get it into nursing schools. I think I've been talking about this a lot to various guests, but I think that's where a lot of changes are going to be made.

[35:36] We really need to get into nursing schools, and we need to get into the curriculum to have some of these things that are just so ingrained.

[35:47] Chinelo: Yeah, yeah, for sure.

[35:49] Michelle: You know, change.

[35:50] Chinelo: For sure.

[35:51] Michelle: But that's fantastic. Well, I want to talk about your Nurse on Purpose podcast, so what was the motivation for starting a podcast?

[36:02] Chinelo: Oh, my goodness. Okay. So I never in my entire life thought that I would be a podcaster.

[36:11] No. First of all, I never even thought I would be a YouTuber, not, not to mention this,

[36:16] but I initially started with a YouTube channel, and it's called the Nurse on Purpose. Nurse on Purpose. That's the name of my YouTube channel. And in that, on that channel, I would review scenes from movies and TV shows that featured a nurse character.

[36:30] And I did that for a few.

[36:32] But when I started using clips from major platforms like Netflix or HBO, or try to use them, I would run into copyright issues, and I couldn't really use the audio or the video.

[36:43] And so that really forced me to step back and rethink what the future of the channel would be, right? What would be my next approach?

[36:56] And, you know, I could have just transitioned into a talking head format and just kind of talked about scenes without really playing them. But I felt like initially, eventually that would feel boring and limiting and people would just be uninspired.

[37:12] Right? And so when I was spending some time, I recently moved to this new area now where I live. And as I was reflecting on, okay, what's the next step?

[37:22] And how, how do I truly want to proceed?

[37:26] This idea for a podcast just dropped in my heart, like many of my ideas do. Like, I'll just be sitting quiet, like solitary, and an idea will just drop in my heart, and I'm like, what, where did that come from?

[37:39] And within three weeks, I mean, I thought about it for all of three weeks. I, the idea dropped in my heart. In November of 2024, I reached out to you within the three weeks because I was looking for, okay, who else is doing this out there?

[37:54] Like, who else is a nurse who's podcasting? Because I know nothing about a podcast. I don't know anything about anything,

[38:00] you know? And within the three weeks, I reached out to you, you gave me that guidance, you know, and just great advice on how you got started. And I think that was the push I needed.

[38:11] Right after our conversation, I want to say I went out and I bought a microphone. I didn't have a laptop, so I went out and bought a laptop. Well, my husband bought, like, all the equipment.

[38:22] We went out and we bought a laptop. We bought the, he bought whatever, the webcam.

[38:31] And then we got a mic, because I was like, okay, so I'm just Googling this, like, what do you need for a, you know, a podcast? This is, wow. This truly all I did.

[38:40] And Michelle, believe it or not, in December, I started recording, and by January 1st, I put out my first episode. And I have been going every week since then.

[38:51] Michelle: and it's amazing and so professional. I just love it. And I love the video format more and more.

[39:01] And I'm so intimidated by that. So when I'm ready to go video, I'm going to be picking your brain. 

[39:12] Chinelo: So for sure, I'm here, whatever you need. But I didn't want to do the video format, if I can be told. Totally honest with you. I was like, all right, fine, I'll do a podcast, but it'll just be audio, just to take the pressure off.

[39:25] I don't like being on video. I really, really don't. Which is ironic because my entire mission is the media, right?

[39:33] Michelle: Yeah.

[39:33] Chinelo: How can I be in the media space and not want to be on video? So I kind of had to get over that quickly, and I'm still getting over it.

[39:41] But I had to find, well, you know, what's the platform? Which, you know, which platforms do I use to record and then edit and then stream and then turn it into an MP3 format and all of that good stuff.

[39:54] But thankfully, I've also had some help along the way, which I'm, which I'm so grateful for.

[39:59] Michelle: That's fantastic. And I feel like it's just such a sisterhood. And I'm glad, you know, that I could be of help in your journey. And I had a podcaster, a nurse podcaster, that.

[40:15] It's so funny when you start a podcast. There's so much advice out there. Right. And so one piece of advice was to have, like, at least eight to 10 episodes already recorded before you ever launch.

[40:29] Right.

[40:31] And so that was me. I started recording in April of 2022, and now it's July of 2022.

[40:39] Chinelo: Wow.

[40:40] Michelle: And I had eight episodes. And I was really wanting to launch, but I just needed a push.

[40:48] Chinelo: Yeah.

[40:48] Michelle: And so Janessa Dean, she has a fantastic podcast. She's a flight nurse, and she teaches other nurses how to be flight nurses.

[40:59] And I just messaged her and I was like, God, you know, how do I do it? And she's like, oh, my God, just do it.

[41:06] Chinelo: Just do it. Yes.

[41:08] Michelle: Stop waiting. You know, she's like, nothing is ever going to be perfect. Just stop waiting for the perfection. You're going to make mistakes.

[41:16] Go for it. And seriously, the next week, I launched.

[41:20] Chinelo: Amazing.

[41:21] Michelle: It was just I just needed a push.

[41:23] Chinelo: Yeah, I hear you. I hear you. I did the same thing. I wouldn't say I dilly dallying because it was three weeks. I mean,

[41:31] and within three weeks, I ordered my laptop, my mic and everything, but there were moments when I was doubting myself, and I was like, who's gonna even care to listen to this?

[41:42] Like, what am I going to talk about for weeks upon weeks? Right? And, oh, I do have to tell you that your fun, five-minute snippet gave me the idea for

[41:54] My NLP games that I play with my guests at the end of every episode.

[41:59] Michelle: I love it. I know. I love that you do that.

[42:02] Chinelo: Yeah. Thank you for that. You know, it's just like you said, it's a community. It's a sisterhood. It's nurses supporting nurses. So very grateful.

[42:11] Michelle: Yes. I love that. Talk about some of your guests that you've had on.

[42:16] Chinelo: Listen, I don't know what I did to deserve this, but I have had, I mean, all of my guests have been fantastic. I can't even begin to tell you how grateful it has made me that 

[42:31] I started this podcast because just the community of nurses I've met, they continue to inspire me and remind me why nursing is such a fantastic profession.

[42:44] I just interviewed a member of Congress two days ago. I am excited to feature her episode very soon. I think I'm gonna air it during Nurses Week, so I'm so excited for that.

[42:55] Like, I'm making connections that I never thought possible. I mean, I've spoken with researchers, I've spoken with advocates, I've spoken with pioneers in, you know, community and public health. I've had some of your guests.

[43:08] Rachell, I had on my podcast. I mean, how amazing was her story? You know, I'm going to be having Maggie Ortiz very soon. You had her on. I've had Kali Dayton.

[43:21] I've had Melissa Mills, who is a champion for, you know, advocacy and nurses getting involved, taking charge, you know, of policy making decisions.

[43:32] Listen, I don't even know where to begin. I've talked to male nurses. You know, even male nurses who are African. Talk about me having a hard time as a female who comes from that background, you know, and then translate that to, okay, now it's a man, and he is an African and he is pursuing nursing.

[43:53] Oh, no. The difficulty, the stigma.

[43:58] I have upcoming conversations with nurses in Korea and Israel because this is a global issue. You know, it's not just about the United States. It affects nurses globally. My featured nurse coaches, informatics specialists, you know, just nurses that are helping other nurses to heal from burnout and oppression and.

[44:20] And just incivility. And then also nurses who are kind of peer mentorship, peer mentoring other nurses. Right? So the list goes on and on. And I can't tell you, this has been an amazing thing.

[44:35] But one thing that all of my guests, I think, have had in common is that they love the profession deeply. They are committed to nursing, and their passion is contagious.

[44:46] And this means so much to me. And the reason why is because for a long time, I struggle to love nursing myself.

[44:56] Right? I had this inner conflict where my, you know, the people I love the most were like, no, not nursing.

[45:05] Chinelo: You know, you have all this talent, and you're so gifted, and you're so brilliant. You should have been a physician. And so internally, I struggled, and I thought, you know, perhaps I settled in nursing.

[45:18] And so it's been a journey. But being exposed to these nurses and seeing just how much they love nursing reminds me and sort of sparks in me again,

[45:31] a recommitment and a passion every single week when I talk to these ladies for the profession of nursing. They are really the thing that fills me up every.

[45:43] week. And hearing them say, I couldn't imagine doing anything else, listen, makes my day.

[45:51] Michelle: Yeah, man. Just get so much joy from it.

[45:55] And I think,

[45:57] you know, I think for me, you know, like you, I've just been, like, in awe of all these nurses that. That I've had the pleasure of talking with. And the overriding theme or feeling is just how much nurses want to help other nurses.

[46:18] Chinelo: Yeah. Yeah.

[46:20] Michelle: And, you know, whether that's through advocacy, whether that's through innovation,

[46:26] you know, designing products to make nurses lives easier,

[46:31] it's just fantastic. And it's something that, for me, it was so unexpected.

[46:39] I felt like when I started the podcast, I'm gonna learn about all these different nursing specialties because I was always PEDS/NICU. And although I loved it, it's like I didn't know what, you know, a cardiac nurse did.

[46:56] And so I thought it's going to be a real learning experience for me. And it has been.

[47:01] But the overriding theme and in all of the nurses that I've talked to is just how much love that they have for their fellow nurses and how much they love the profession, and they want to really advance nurses how they're perceived.

[47:18] It's just been an amazing journey.

[47:22] Chinelo: Yeah, for sure.

[47:23] Michelle: I'm glad you're loving it.

[47:25] Chinelo: Yes, definitely.

[47:27] Michelle: Well, where can we find your podcast?

[47:30] Chinelo: Oh, Michelle, I am on.

[47:33] just about all the platforms. I'm on LinkedIn. I think I'm most active on LinkedIn. I post my podcast on there every week when it airs, but it airs on YouTube and on Spotify every week.

[47:50] And I'm still working on getting my Apple podcast and all the other platforms, so still a work in progress. I'm three months in, so. But yeah, definitely YouTube and Spotify, you can check me out there.

[48:01] Both are Nurse on Purpose and people can connect with me on LinkedIn, on Instagram, on Facebook. Yeah, I'm expanding my reach.

[48:10] Michelle: You are everywhere. And you have accomplished so much in such little time. I am highly impressed, girl. I am. Yeah, I'm just in awe. I'm like, it took me nine months to do what you did in basically three weeks, so that's fantastic.

[48:29] Chinelo: Yeah, it's moving well. 

[48:31] Michelle: Yeah, yeah. Well. And you know what? We act like, you know, we have so much time.

[48:36] Chinelo: Right.

[48:37] Michelle: We don't have that much time. So to you, you gotta get your word out and you gotta be quick about it. And you're certainly doing that.

[48:45] Chinelo: Absolutely.

[48:47] Michelle: Chinelo, is there someone that you think would be a good guest on the Conversing Nurse podcast?

[48:54] Chinelo: Oh, absolutely.

[48:56] Overwhelmingly, I would say. I have, you know, so many guest recommendations, but I would say Sandy Summers. Sandy is one of the people that I look up to greatly. She's the author of Saving Lives: Why the Media's Portrayal of Nursing Puts Us all at Risk.

[49:13] And she's also the founder of the Truth About Nursing.

[49:17] Sandy has spent a great part of her life for decades working tirelessly to do the work that I am doing too, transforming how the media portrays nurses. And I admire her for her dedication, because now that I've been doing this for three months,

[49:34] I now see firsthand just how difficult and how painstaking it is to shift public perceptions. And it feels like the more you dig, the more problems you uncover internally and externally.

[49:49] So I truly stand in awe of what she has accomplished, accomplished so far.

[49:53] Michelle: That's great. I would love to meet Sandy. So give us an introduction.

[49:58] Chinelo: Absolutely.

[50:00] Michelle: Sweet. Okay. Well, again, Chinelo, thank you so much for being my guest. I am in awe of everything that you're doing.

[50:11] Chinelo: Thank you.

[50:12] Michelle: And all of your efforts are worthy. And they are not going unnoticed.

[50:19] Chinelo: Thank you so much. I appreciate you. Thank you.

[50:23] Michelle: Yes. And I love how at the end of your segments that you have fun with your guests by making them the producer of their own show.

[50:34] That is so great. I don't know where you got that idea, but it's so fantastic.

[50:37] Chinelo: Another one that dropped in my heart. I'll just tell you now.

[50:41] Michelle: I love it. Wow.

[50:43] Chinelo: And I went out and I bought a jar too, to use.

[50:46] Michelle: I know. I love that. I saw that you picking those out of your jar and I'm like

[50:51] Chinelo: Went to the dollar tree, I picked out a jar and I was like, I'm going to make my mom my first. Like, she's going to be my first guest, my practice guest.

[50:59] Because of course, I had to make sure that all of this technology I had bought was working seamlessly together. So she was my first guest. I don't know that I'm going to post her episode, but it was her first.

[51:12] Michelle: I love it.

[51:14] Well, here at the Conversing Nurse podcast we have the five-minute snippet, as you know. And so that just five minutes of fun at the end where we just get to see the off duty side of Chinelo when she's not being a family nurse practitioner and a pediatric nurse practitioner and a podcaster and an advocate.

[51:33] And so we just get to have a little bit of fun. So you ready to have some fun?

[51:39] Chinelo: Yay for fun. Let's do it.

[52:24] Okay, well, convince me to live in your hometown.

[52:28] Chinelo: Oh, wow.

[52:30] All right. So seeing as I just moved here like six months ago,

[52:35] but to be honest, I live in a, I would call it a small town, really.

[52:41] But what I love most about living here is that we are in close proximity to some really great things. Like we're close to West Virginia, we're close to Pennsylvania. If you're a lover of wine, there are vineyards all throughout my kind of locale.

[53:00] At least 30 minutes away.

[53:02] I'm close to Baltimore and all the good food there.

[53:07] But my greatest kind of love for this community is the people and the farms.

[53:17] We have great people and we have great farms. And I'm talking about like huge acres of farmland all around us. It's kind of rural-ish, but it's a great place to raise a family and it's a great way to eat really fresh foods.

[53:33] I've gotten eggs that are like different colors. Like, the shell would be green or it'll be like, you know, kind of pink or brown or white. I've gotten eggs and literally there was still a little bit of like poop and dirt on it.

[53:49] I mean, really, really fresh. We've gotten bell peppers in droves. I mean, more than we can consume and paid very little for it. And not having to buy them at the supermarket, we've gotten from our neighbors.

[54:04] And this is why I said the people, they have a nice garden and they plant eggplants and tomatoes and they will bring some to us during planting season, like during April.

[54:14] And, well, not April, I guess, but toward the summer when their crops have actually harvested. And so, yeah, it's been a wonderful community and also good and healthy and life giving food.

[54:28] Michelle: That's amazing. It sounds like you moved to just an amazing place and love the generosity of neighbors that bring you fruit and vegetables from their garden. Yeah, there's nothing better.

[54:41] Chinelo: Yeah.

[54:42] Michelle: Okay. Chinelo what do you do when you want to get out of your own head?

[54:47] Chinelo: Okay, this is a tricky one because a thing that I do to get out of my own head is also.

[54:54] Also puts me in my own head, if that makes sense. So I love solitude. I love being alone. I've always been a person who loves, like small, tight corners.

[55:06] Like, I'll go in like, not just the room, but I'll go into the closet of the room as like, as though there was somebody else in the room. With me and my husband when we moved here, he said he's gonna build me a dog kennel.

[55:18] Michelle: Oh, my gosh.

[55:20] Chinelo: Because he sees, like, when we're together and I'm just like, oh, you know, I need to be alone. And then he's just sat in the room. Why did you have to go into the closet?

[55:30] He was like, don't worry, I'll put you an even smaller space so you can really cram yourself.

[55:39] So I do, I get away by myself.

[55:41] Funny enough, when I get away by myself, I can get further into my head. However, I never leave that solitude without getting out of my head. Does that make sense?

[55:52] So solitary. Yeah.

[55:56] Michelle: Wow. Your husband sounds like he has a great sense of humor.

[55:59] Chinelo: Oh, my goodness. Yeah.

[56:02] Michelle: Okay. You just met somebody 10 minutes ago. How can you tell if they're trustworthy?

[56:09] Chinelo: Oh, man.

[56:12] You know, I think that there is power

[56:15] In our words.

[56:17] So it's the way we speak the words that we speak and kind of our timing. Right. I think that

[56:28] We can sometimes judge a person's character by listening to what they say and how they say it and how honest they are. Like, if they're truthful in. In their speech.

[56:40] Like, do they speak the truth? And how do they speak about other people?

[56:45] Right. I can kind of tell if somebody's trustworthy by the way they speak about other people in a situation. Right. Are they tearing people down?

[56:54] But befriending you, but tearing others down. That's a good. And that they might not be good to you when your back is turned, or they might not be very trustworthy.

[57:05] I don't know if that was.

[57:07] Michelle: Oh, no, that's good. I think that's a really good point that you make. How do people talk about others? You know, is really telling.

[57:18] Chinelo: Yeah.

[57:18] Michelle: Okay, this is a Finish this sentence: My dream podcast guest would be______

[57:25] Chinelo: Oh, boy. You know what? I'm gonna be honest. I think Sandy would be my dream podcast guest.

[57:34] Michelle: Awesome.

[57:35] Chinelo: I just haven't asked because I'm just waiting for sort of the right moment. But I think she would be my dream podcast just because of how much I admire the lady.

[57:45] She's a phenomenal person, and she does it with such grit and grace and kindness. Right. She's going after what she wants, but she doesn't do it in this, like, combative and catty way.

[58:02] And I see that about her, and I admire it greatly. So she would be an ideal guest and a dream guest for me.

[58:09] Michelle: Yeah, she sounds fantastic.

[58:10] Chinelo: Yeah, she is.

[58:12] Michelle: Okay, last question. What was the last thing you searched for on Google?

[58:19] Chinelo: Wow. What was the last thing? I feel like I have to go to my Google search.

[58:23] Michelle: You can remember. I know, right?

[58:25] Chinelo: You know what I did? I searched for Nurses Week 2025. I wanted to know what week that was.

[58:32] Michelle: Awesome.

[58:33] Chinelo: I plan my podcast, sort of. I have to kind of tailor my guests to fit if there's a celebration in that week or whatever. So I wanted to feature a particular nurse that week, and so I wanted to make sure to let my team know my team, they're not nurses,

[58:49] so I wanted to let them, like, verify on Google and then let my team know this is who we're going to be featuring. So that's the last thing.

[58:59] Michelle: I love that. Yeah, I love your system. It's very cool. I might steal some of your stuff.

[59:05] Chinelo: Yeah, I think, um, I've done that. Like, when. If there's a Latino nurses celebration, I'll try to make sure that if I interviewed, you know, Latina nurse or something, I featured them just.

[59:18] Just like that, playing around with.

[59:20] Michelle: Yeah, yeah, I love it. Be topical, right?

[59:22] Chinelo: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

[59:25] Michelle: Very cool. Well, Chinelo, thank you so much. I have just enjoyed seeing your beautiful smile and your glow. And we said this to each other on Instagram just this morning.

[59:39] Like, we are living our dream, right?

[59:41] Chinelo: Yes, Michelle, yes. Yes, we are.

[59:44] Michelle: We're living in congruence with who we are, and it's a great thing.

[59:47] Chinelo: Absolutely. Yeah. Thank you so much for having me on.

[59:51] Michelle: Oh, my gosh. It was my pleasure. Have a great rest of your day.

[59:55] Chinelo: Thank you.

[59:55] Michelle: Bye.