The Teaching NP, Sunny Khangura

Today’s guest is The Teaching NP, Sunny Khangura. Sunny wears many hats—nurse practitioner, educator, mentor, entrepreneur, and passionate advocate for the non-traditional path. She began her nursing career back in 2005 and has since carved a dynamic and inspiring journey across clinical care, leadership, education, and business.

From trauma units to neurosurgery, from mentoring NP students to creating exam prep courses and launching her own teaching platform, Sunny has made it her mission to elevate nurse practitioner education and empower others to see the value in their unique skill sets.

In this episode, we explore how her career evolved, what it means to create impact beyond the bedside, and why every nurse’s path—traditional or not—deserves to be celebrated.

What really stands out is her unwavering commitment to mentorship and her deep belief in the value of every nurse’s journey, no matter how unconventional it may seem.

If you’re an NP student, a new grad, or a seasoned nurse looking to explore new directions, I hope Sunny’s story inspires you to trust your instincts, invest in your growth, and maybe even take that leap you’ve been considering. This was such a rich conversation—full of insight, experience, and heart.

In the five-minute snippet: yep, she’s a nurse.

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Transcript

[00:00] Michelle: Today's guest is The Teaching NP, Sunny Khangura. Sunny wears many hats.

[00:07] Nurse, practitioner, educator, mentor, entrepreneur, and passionate advocate for the non-traditional path.

[00:15] She began her nursing career back in 2005 and has since carved a dynamic and inspiring journey across clinical care,

[00:24] leadership, education, and business.

[00:28] From trauma units to neurosurgery,

[00:31] from mentoring NP students to creating exam prep courses and launching her own teaching platform,

[00:38] Sunny has made it her mission to elevate nurse practitioner education and empower others to see the value in their unique skill sets.

[00:49] In this episode, we explore how her career evolved,

[00:54] what it means to create impact beyond the bedside,

[00:57] and why every nurse's path, traditional or not,

[01:01] deserves to be celebrated.

[01:04] What really stands out is her unwavering commitment to mentorship and her deep belief in the value of every nurse's journey,

[01:13] no matter how unconventional it may seem.

[01:17] If you're an NP student, a new grad, or a seasoned nurse looking to explore new directions,

[01:23] I hope Sunny's story inspires you to trust your instincts,

[01:27] invest in your growth,

[01:29] and maybe even take that leap you've been considering.

[01:33] This was such a rich conversation,

[01:36] full of insight, experience,

[01:38] and heart. In the five minute snippet:

[01:42] Yep, she's a nurse.

[02:01] Well, good morning, Sunny. Welcome to the podcast.

[02:04] Sunny: Thank you so much, Michelle. I'm excited to join you today.

[02:08] Michelle: I am as well. And I was trying to remember where we met, and I think it was on Instagram.

[02:15] Sunny: Yep, you got it.

[02:16] Michelle: Okay. Very cool. And I looked at your account and I was like, wow, The Teaching NP, that's so cool.

[02:25] So I'm excited to talk about that today,

[02:28] and we'll just get started.

[02:30] Sunny,

[02:31] so you started your career, your nursing career in 2005, which was 20 years ago. Sounds a long time ago, but, man, it went fast, right?

[02:41] Sunny: It sure did.

[02:42] Michelle: And you've worked in orthopedics, trauma, palliative care.

[02:48] But let's just start with, what drew you to nursing and how did you,

[02:54] How do you think those early experiences shaped you?

[02:59] Sunny: Yeah, I think what drew me to nursing is I knew I wanted to do something in healthcare, and I've always been very active and involved in sports, like throughout high school and after.

[03:10] And so I was even thinking of things like physiotherapy, which was a passion of mine, and, like, sports and fitness.

[03:17] But then I was also really drawn to the medical side of things, and that's where I thought nursing would be, this happy balance. And that's what sort of drew me to that.

[03:26] And I think I just,

[03:28] you know, it was that caring profession, but also outside of that, there was 

[03:34] The significant critical thinking that goes into assessing your patients from a holistic perspective and looking at the different body systems. And I always found it's so intriguing when you can solve.

[03:49] medical issues that would come up with your patients or nursing diagnoses. And so I've just been down that path and expanding my knowledge as I've gone.

[03:58] Michelle: That's very cool. I love hearing stories of how nurses got into the profession, and I'm constantly surprised almost every time of the motivations behind it.

[04:12] So thank you for, for talking about that.

[04:16] So what inspired you to become a nurse practitioner, Sunny?

[04:21] Sunny: I think as I was later on within my nursing career,

[04:28] I noticed that, you know, as I was working in orthopaedics and trauma, like, it just became so heavy physically,

[04:36] mentally, I had sort of no capacity by the time I got home. And,

[04:40] you know, this is me as a young nurse, you know, recently graduated,

[04:44] and I realized, like, there's no way I can do this specific work into my 50s and 60s. And I think it was just even more so from a physical perspective.

[04:56] It was just a lot. You know, you would go hours and hours without breaks, hours and hours and hours without peeing, no sip of water.

[05:04] And I think, you know, as a bedside nurse, I was very, quote, unquote, on top of it with my patients. So my care, which I take great pride in, I was very thorough with my assessments.

[05:15] I was very attentive to my patients, but it came with a sacrifice. And that meant, like, I didn't have any capacity to care for myself throughout the shifts. Generally, it was just like, go, go, go, go, go.

[05:27] And that's when I thought,

[05:28] I need to do something that gives me more autonomy and greater responsibility and sort of move out of the RN role. And that's when the NP role was starting to become more common.

[05:41] And that's what made me explore that field more. So I decided to pursue higher education and started my master's.

[05:50] And, you know, I've continued down that path as an NP and working and have worked in different areas.

[05:57] And I'm so glad I did it because the number of opportunities,

[06:01] also as a bedside nurse, there's so many opportunities. So, you know, I could have gone into community, but I think I just, again,

[06:07] really wanted that greater responsibility and more autonomy and so that's what sort of drove me to do that path.

[06:17] Michelle: You know, I've spoken with so many nurses now that have told me that the bedside was brutal on them.

[06:27] And that's so sad in a way,

[06:30] because those nurses really loved it and,

[06:34] but they knew, like yourself, that it wasn't sustainable.

[06:38] And so they had to go down a different path. And many of them chose entrepreneurship and some of them chose advanced practice degrees,

[06:48] academia.

[06:49] So I don't know how,

[06:53] when, if we're going to change that because we need bedside nurses,

[06:59] but it's tearing them up.

[07:02] Sunny: Yeah, it really is. And I see it even on our units,

[07:06] you know, new grad nurses. And I see them when I talk to them about what's happening with certain patients.

[07:12] You know, unfortunately, they're doing the best they can, but many, I will say are.

[07:17] They're trying, but I can see they're just moving so fast between room to room to room to room and trying to stay on top of it. But again, as you mentioned, Michelle, like, it's not sustainable.

[07:27] And they're running around like chickens with their heads cut off because there's just too much to do.

[07:33] And the patients are more complex,

[07:36] there's greater acuity.

[07:37] You know, we have patients on the wards who are on a hundred percent high flow oxygen who are still not, you know, they're still full codes.

[07:49] And it's so distressing for the nurses, right. When they have these type of assignments. And it's like a very sad reality of the nursing profession at this time within the healthcare system.

[08:01] Michelle: Yeah, the moral distress is going to get us. It is causing so many nurses and other medical professionals to really burn out to realize that I don't have the time, the resources,

[08:19] the energy to care for these people the way they need to be cared for,

[08:25] the way they deserve to be cared for.

[08:28] And, many nurses have just persevered and endured that, but it's, it's just not,

[08:38] it's not going to lead to a good ending.

[08:40] Somebody's going to suffer. And so the patients suffer and the nurses suffer for sure.

[08:47] Sunny: Yeah.

[08:48] Michelle: Well, you have worked across a wide spectrum, so primary care to mental health and now you're in neurosurgery.

[08:57] Talk about some of the defining or memorable moments across those settings.

[09:03] Sunny: Yeah, I would say,

[09:05] you know, the nice thing within the nursing profession, whether you're an RN or NP is that there are so many opportunities and you can definitely find something that you love to do.

[09:18] So not only is it an area you work in, but it can also be something you just are very passionate about. So if it's women's health, et cetera.

[09:26] So I started out doing primary care and I think one thing that really stood out in primary care is how much measured reassurance many patients required. So I found that often primary care

[09:41] did involve a lot of mental health or reassurance about certain symptoms that would arise even after workup was done. So there was often a lot of health anxiety we would deal with and with Google now many people were googling a lot of symptoms and still do to this day,

[09:58] which I think it's, I personally think it's absolutely okay to Google things only because when it comes to medical conditions, because I think in this day and age, with the healthcare system the way it is,

[10:10] as long as we're, as a patient,

[10:13] you do want to be well versed in what your symptoms are, what the, what specific things could be. But because the truth is, Michelle, is many healthcare providers don't have enough time to work through all of the symptoms or, you know, all of the issues that a patient might present within one visit.

[10:32] So I actually don't think it's a bad thing for patients to come in well informed, obviously using reputable resources if they can,

[10:39] to help answer questions, et cetera. So I found that really interesting within primary care. And then I also worked in mental health and worked as a director of health for a large nonprofit which really focused on harm reduction and vulnerable populations, specifically homeless, HIV positive,

[10:56] lots of substance use. And that is a very different field of medicine and you know, focus on addictions, harm reduction,

[11:06] which I learned that not everybody is in the camp of harm reduction. And there's many people who still really focus on the rehabilitation of addicts and abstinence. You know, and then you have the camp where people are wanting addicts to be able to access clean supply rather than focusing on abstinence.

[11:29] So it's, that was a very eye opening experience as I worked in that role. And then I started in neurosurgery about seven years ago and absolutely love it. And the nice thing with that role is I'm still able to use a lot of my primary care skills.

[11:46] And in addition to a very specialized area of neurosurgery,

[11:50] I work as the main nurse practitioner at one of the largest hospitals and work with a wonderful team of residents and nurse clinicians and educators and charge nurses and ward nurses and neuro ICU nurses and fabulous team of allied health And I'm really, really enjoying the collaborative practice.

[12:12] I think together we can be so complementary to a patient's health outcomes.

[12:19] And I think I really, really enjoy the team based. Whereas sometimes in primary care, you are kind of the social worker, you are 

[12:28] the nurse, the NP, you know, the main provider, the insurance filter-outer, you're it. So, yeah.

[12:35] Michelle: Wow, that sounds like those experiences have just led to the richness of your practice.

[12:44] Sunny: Absolutely. Yeah.

[12:45] Michelle: Very cool. Okay, well, I know in your bio that you said you became an unexpected entrepreneur and I was like, hmm,

[12:54] what happened?

[12:56] So talk about your journey into entrepreneurship and what was the spark behind it.

[13:03] Sunny: Yeah. So, Michelle, back in 2012,

[13:06] within our province in British Columbia,

[13:09] we had what was called a nurse practitioner OSCE exam that only NP candidates within British Columbia had to complete in order to become fully licensed as an independent nurse practitioner.

[13:22] And this OSCE exam is like no other exam that generally nurses or NP students have to go through. And it involves 16 different patient stations and you are allotted two minutes to go over your specific task.

[13:39] So it might be something like performing a physical exam, completing a history taking of whatever patient scenario is given to you at the door. And you have to work through 16 of these.

[13:48] You have no idea what to expect. And there's a specific format involved and you're verbalizing throughout your landmarking throughout, and you're being examined in each station.

[13:59] And so it was a very intense and time pressured exam. And I found that when I studied for this exam, I spent five weeks,

[14:07] you know, very dedicated studying and I learned more in those five weeks than I did throughout my two years master's program.

[14:16] Michelle: Wow.

[14:17] Sunny: And I remember thinking, you know,

[14:19] throughout my master's program, I didn't know how to do a knee exam. I really struggled with certain assessments because I felt like I just didn't,

[14:28] maybe I didn't learn the way many learners processed certain content.

[14:34] And I found when I was prepping for this exam, I taught myself a lot. I created templates, I did lots of hands on practice.

[14:41] And that's when I went ahead, did the exam, passed on my first attempt. And I thought, you know, I couldn't. And then what sparked was one night I thought, you know, I can't possibly be the only one who feels like this.

[14:53] I reached out to an NP student asking if they wanted a little bit of support with, you know, guiding their OSCE prep. And I had a group of five students come in in 2012 to meet with me in the clinic I was working at and I spent a day with them.

[15:08] Going over what the OSCE required of them and how to go about doing it. And I taught them certain techniques and methods on how do you do an efficient history taking or physical exam.

[15:19] And they were essentially, they were blown away and said, we want to do more with you, we want to do more. And I thought okay. And that's where it just started to grow and,

[15:28] and yeah, and that's when I just started creating much more content and teaching curriculum and essentially did it, you know, when I wasn't working. So it was done on my own time and,

[15:41] and I've been teaching ever since. And from there not only do I teach OSCE prep, but I've created physical exam courses, nurse practitioner student courses that help prepare them for like health assessment courses and specifically clinical practicums can be very daunting.

[15:57] And it's important to enter clinical having systems in place where you can perform a cardiovascular exam or perform a history, develop a management plan and,

[16:08] and so that some of my courses will cover those specific techniques so that you can enter those areas a lot more confidently.

[16:15] And then I created 

[16:17] a comprehensive template bundle for nurse practitioners and new grads as well as students to again guide a lot of those clinical interactions that occur within your patient visits.

[16:28] And then I also help with interview preparation and do mentorship and lots of things have come from it. And it just ignited a passion because I would, when I would teach, I also teach in person courses and when I would teach in person I would just watch the students faces and it literally would just fill me up because they would have these like aha moments,

[16:50] like how come nobody taught me this? And I think the only reason I am good at what I do is because, Michelle, I went through it and I struggled just like these students did.

[17:01] And at the end of it I was like, these things just aren't clicking. Like how do I identify differential diagnoses, how do I know how to do certain exams and put it together?

[17:10] And the only reason I was able to create specific curriculum is again having gone through the trials and tribulations of being an NP student,

[17:20] studying for an OSCE exam, transitioning from NP student to practicing np. And which is why I can relate to these students so well.

[17:29] Michelle: You know, I'm starting to think that entrepreneurship is part of the nurse DNA.

[17:37] And I've spoken with so many nurses now that have gone into entrepreneurship just for the reasons that you laid out, because they came up against something that was very challenging for them and they said there's gotta be a better way.

[17:54] Yeah, I'm gonna find what it is, I'm gonna decipher this code.

[18:00] And now I'm not just gonna keep this for myself. I'm gonna go out and I'm gonna spread this far and wide.

[18:08] And I just think that's fantastic, Sunny, that you're sharing everything that you have struggled with.

[18:18] And like you said,

[18:19] there has to be other people that are struggling with the same thing,

[18:24] and you reached out and people are accepting it.

[18:29] It's fantastic. Tell me about some of the other courses that you offer.

[18:34] Sunny: Yeah. So in addition to interview prep, there's a resource I offer for that because many nurse practitioners struggle with their first job interviews. And having worked as a Director of Health in one of my previous roles,

[18:49] I've done a lot of job interviewing. And so there was just so many things that I would identify within the first 60 seconds of interviewing someone that I could say, no, we're not going to hire them.

[18:59] Which I know sounds very harsh and cutthroat, but it was the reality when I was looking for specific candidates that were,

[19:06] you know, that came across efficient, confident, personable.

[19:10] And so that was one of the resources I created. And then another course is a physical exam course, and it covers 12 different systems. And it's an E-course that works through exams such as neurological, cranial nerves, cardiac, respiratory, abdomen, your various MSK exams, such as shoulder, elbow,

[19:32] hand, wrist, knee, spine, foot, ankle.

[19:35] And within that course, you have templates for each of the systems. So essentially you can follow step by step through the templates how to perform the exams. And then There are also 12 dedicated videos that I created and produced with a couple of colleagues.

[19:53] And these were essentially created for OSCE exam prep, as well as helping students prepare for clinical practice, which shows you how to landmark, how to perform special tests. It's. Their exams are helpful for health assessment courses, clinical practicums, as well as osce, and then also for new grads when they're entering practice.

[20:15] Another course is the OSCE exam E-course. So I teach those in person.

[20:20] And then I've also created an E-course because a lot of my students were across Canada or from the US and so they're able to still access the courses, that particular course if they have OSCE exam exams within their program.

[20:34] And then the other course is the Nurse Practitioner Student Master course. And so this is the most recommended course because it is multipurpose in that it can help refresh more seasoned NPs who may have been away from practice or if you're an NP who's been on maternity leave and you're needing a refresher on things like patient history taking,

[20:55] developing management plans, physical exams, identifying differential diagnoses and review systems. But also very beneficial for NP students who are entering clinical practicums and just don't know really where to start and how to guide a patient interaction from beginning to end.

[21:13] So it really gives you those step by step methods in order to tackle your patient visits or your OSCE exams or health assessment courses.

[21:24] Michelle: Very comprehensive courses. I love that you are touching everyone from the new NP, the seasoned NP,

[21:35] the ones that just need a refresher.

[21:38] That's fantastic.

[21:40] What has been some of the feedback from some of your students, Sunny?

[21:45] Sunny: Oh, my students are,

[21:48] they are my biggest supporters. I think they are my,

[21:54] they are like my guiding light as to,

[21:58] as to know how to navigate my education.

[22:02] And I think it comes from,

[22:04] I get such great positive feedback and it goes beyond that. Like when students email me,

[22:11] they tell me how from a personal level it's changed their journey even when it comes to self belief. And a lot of students have many self limiting beliefs and I often when I start teaching in person courses I always ask every student to share if they're will to share their self limiting beliefs and,

[22:30] and then to challenge it as to why it is actually not true, you know, and it comes with things like they really lack confidence or they don't think they should be here,

[22:41] you know, within an NP student program and have a seat in the program.

[22:45] And so I think that is what truly continues to motivate me and inspire me. They feel very well prepared for OSCE exams. They feel like they have the tools to enter clinical practic outcomes.

[22:59] They feel well supported and within my teaching environment it's a very safe, non judgmental environment because I will always remember what it was like to be a student and feeling like I didn't know I didn't belong.

[23:12] And I don't ever want any of my students or new grad MPs or seasoned NPs which I get, you know,

[23:18] students across or, NPs across the spectrum at various levels within their training who attend my courses. And I always want everyone to feel good and valued, you know, when they leave the courses.

[23:32] Michelle: That's the mark of a good educator,

[23:34] right? You want to know that you're being effective and that people

[23:39] have lots of takeaways and are actually improving their work and their view of themselves. I love how you put, you know,

[23:51] the self limiting beliefs in there,

[23:54] um, Those are things that hold us back. Those are barriers.

[24:00] So I love what you're doing.

[24:02] So what you were talking about really has a lot to do with mentorship.

[24:07] And you obviously have a strong passion for teaching and you also have a strong passion for mentoring NP students and new grads.

[24:18] So what are some of the common struggles that you see with the students that they tell you about or maybe that you just pick up on them and how do you help them kind of navigate through those?

[24:33] Sunny: Yeah. So some of the common themes I see amongst NP students, the first challenge is when they're within the program and they have young families, so trying to juggle it all.

[24:44] And when I started my program, I had just had my first baby and I remember writing papers for my masters,

[24:51] you know, at midnight with my baby,

[24:54] you know, I would be nursing the baby with my laptop up in front of me.

[25:00] And you know, you get through it. And I think it's really meant, you know, guiding students that it is doable, but you have to really prioritize certain aspects of life and say no to a lot of things that aren't going to serve you to, for you to meet your goal.

[25:15] And that often means like family and friends, friends understanding that you just might not be available like you used to be.

[25:21] The second theme would often be is the transition from NP student to now independent provider.

[25:28] And you know, my biggest advice for that is always make sure that when you're doing your interview,

[25:34] recognize that you are interviewing the employer just as much as they're interviewing you because it has to be a good fit for you as well as a new grad.

[25:42] It's really important to look at what that orientation period looks like. Are you well supported in terms of resources and letting letting new grad NPs know that generally we can pick on, pick up on, you know, red flag situations or acute symptoms that warrant immediate referral to ER.

[26:01] But it's also okay to tell patients, let me look into that and I will give you a call to give you more information or,

[26:08] you know, let's rebook an appointment and you know, to go over more a better or more unique distinct plan on your medical management if there is a certain topic that comes up that you're not quite familiar with and most importantly,

[26:23] letting them know that the experience is huge.

[26:27] You know, as you get one year, two years, three years, and you've seen multiple presentations of the same condition. So whether it's psoriasis, eczema, pityriasis, rosea, these kind of things you are going to get better and better at diagnosing.

[26:44] And the fourth thing I always, you know, which is a big piece that comes up is NP students really struggling with transitioning into the clinical practicum. They're so nervous. You know, preceptors, you know, some are very supportive, some are not that great.

[26:58] And I think it's true. Right Michelle? And I think it's,

[27:02] I think perceptors often,

[27:04] you know, the good ones we are so grateful for, but the ones there are ones that I think they forget how impressionable they still are.

[27:13] And you can leave such a great impression, but you can also leave a very lasting negative impression on a student and to recognize the power you hold.

[27:21] And I think anytime you're entering clinical practicums, it is so essential to have a good system,

[27:29] a good systems and methods in place on how do you do very specific tasks when you enter the clinical. Because it's so different from studying for a pharmacology examination.

[27:40] Entering clinical is hands on. You're doing, you're verbalizing lots of communication,

[27:45] physical exams,

[27:46] leading patient visits. And so what tools do you have to perform a patient history?

[27:53] What tools do you have to rely on in order for you to perform a thorough knee exam? And those are sort of the big things that often come up when I'm mentoring students or new grad NPs.

[28:05] Michelle: Yeah, so you touched on preceptors.

[28:08] And over 40 years ago I started my career in nursing and I still remember my great preceptors. And I still remember my not so great. Right.

[28:21] They stay with you.

[28:23] And whenever I would precept somebody in my career, I would always remember kind of where I came from. And I didn't want the student's experience to be one that I had.

[28:38] And I think that is another thing that nurses do so well is we just are so invested in the experience of people that we precept and we should, I think we should take it more seriously.

[28:54] And I think institutions need to take it more seriously as well because what's happening at the bedside is nurses are being,

[29:06] I guess you could say voluntold, you know, you're going to be a preceptor. And maybe they only have a year or two of experience and they're not given the tools that they need.

[29:18] So I think we need to really look into that because we are affecting the next generation of nurses, Right?

[29:28] Sunny: Absolutely. And I think we're also setting the precedents as preceptors on how those students should preceptor so,

[29:37] you know, I think it's a very important role when we take on preceptorship roles or any sort of mentorship.

[29:43] Michelle: Well, what do you think makes a good mentor in today's healthcare environment, especially for nurse practitioners?

[29:52] Sunny: Yeah, I think it's,

[29:54] I think you're essentially your role as a mentor is somewhat of a coach, but also a teacher.

[30:03] And it's not just these specific skills, it's also things around establishing patient rapport.

[30:12] Are you approachable?

[30:13] How do you have conversations with families and loved ones when there's difficult situations? It's not just the medicine and the healthcare itself. The communication piece, I think is so huge and connecting with families and patients is still so important.

[30:30] And I think sometimes,

[30:32] you know, with how busy healthcare is and the acuity, et cetera,

[30:38] I think we are starting to lose the humanness of our patients at times.

[30:45] And that's where I think, though nurses and nurse practitioners, that we are so good at filling in those gaps. You know, I do work within a surgical specialty and sometimes, unfortunately,

[30:56] residents, they only have a couple minutes with the patient before they're summoned to be in the OR. And you know, that's a very challenging timeframe to establish any sort of rapport.

[31:07] And I think again, that's where we can be so complimentary. I think also as a mentor within the role of nursing,

[31:15] you have to consider yourself as a role model. So if I'm mentoring an NP student or an RN,

[31:25] modeling is so important. So my interactions with other members of the medical team, the cleaning staff,

[31:31] the porters, other specialists, am I conducting myself in a way that is respectful, professional, helpful, supportive?

[31:42] And this is what I want my mentees to see,

[31:45] is that we are all contributing as a whole to the healthcare system in order for this challenging machine to continue to run.

[31:53] And so I think those are all key things within mentorship. And then also making sure that I identify what my particular student is struggling with,

[32:02] you know, and help build a plan or a roadmap on how we can tackle those things and not just what I think they're struggling with. So again, it's that having those very open conversations, which means allowing for a safe space for your students to communicate what they're truly feeling.

[32:19] And to be honest, Michelle, it often there is personal stuff that comes into it or emotion that can come into it, especially when we talk about self limiting beliefs and what is sort of the core that's causing someone to struggle so much or why they're, they just don't believe in what they're doing and that's why I find it so meaningful to connect with my students on a deeper level.

[32:42] Michelle: Yeah, I love that you are incorporating those in your instruction, in your modeling, in your mentorship.

[32:51] And those, the things that you talked about, like communicating with families,

[32:56] those are the soft skills. Right.

[32:59] And that's like the new buzzword.

[33:03] And it's crazy because it's like that's just people being people, that's communication.

[33:10] But these things are so important when you're working in the medical field,

[33:16] in healthcare, in nursing,

[33:18] they are so important because we're interacting with people.

[33:24] Sunny: Yeah.

[33:24] Michelle: Our patients are people, the physician is a person, my fellow nurses are people. So we need to know how to use our soft skills so that they benefit us as a whole. And I just love that you're talking about that and incorporating that.

[33:44] obviously you are an advocate.

[33:47] Why is it important to you, Sunny, to be an advocate for nurses who pursue non-traditional career paths?

[33:56] Sunny: I think, Michelle, this kind of hits on a personal level too. And I mentioned before, the NP students that I have taught and worked with or mentored have truly been my biggest supporters.

[34:11] And it's not that they're just supporting from a distance, it's that they've worked with me, they've been in the classroom, they've learned, most importantly, they've learned these specific skills within a two day course or a four day course,

[34:25] leaving completely differently from when they entered the classroom.

[34:30] But along my 13 year journey as an entrepreneur,

[34:36] there have been many times where it can be very lonely,

[34:40] it can be very isolating.

[34:42] Sad to say that Michelle, there have been many experienced NPs or those in leadership, various nursing institutions that are not supportive of the work I do and see me,

[35:06] you know, quote unquote as competition.

[35:10] I am a one woman show. I have created all of my educational content and I've done it through long nights, long days, I've given it blood, sweat, tears and breast milk,

[35:30] and I can confidently say that and rather than looking at me as competition or she's an entrepreneur, she has other motives behind this.

[35:43] It's not that it's just that I can be complimentary to the NP education and that's honestly what I believe I have been and it's proof is based on the hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of students I've taught across Canada,

[35:59] within the United States and you know, my own alumni doesn't support what I do and like I am truly passionate about what I do, Michelle. But to make someone believe you or to make a whole nursing institution believe that you do want to help someone.

[36:19] But at the same time,

[36:21] I'm so proud of the work I've done that I am like, I am allowed to be reimbursed for all of the long hours and thought processes and resources I have invested into the work that I've created to help essentially create stronger and more efficient nurse practitioners.

[36:46] Michelle: Yeah,

[36:48] it's insane, Sunny. Are these people in academia? And I just interviewed an academic, a PhD prepared nurse the other day, and she was so unlike most academics that I have interviewed.

[37:09] She's just so down to earth, very 

[37:13] student-centered.

[37:14] She uses the empathetic instructional design, which I knew nothing about, but I learned very quickly.

[37:22] And I think that's,

[37:24] And I told her the same thing, that there's this disconnect between nurses, the boots on the ground, and academia.

[37:34] But yet we've all encountered it because that's how we've been educated. Right.

[37:41] And not always to the highest standards or the highest levels.

[37:49] And so then you have someone like yourself that is experienced, has a broad range of experience,

[37:57] has a passion, is a mentor, an advocate who wants to better the nurses that are,

[38:08] you know, in the profession, but yet kind of gets the side eye from those very people that,

[38:16] you know, it's like,

[38:18] what is your beef?

[38:20] Sunny: I know.

[38:21] Michelle: Are you feeling guilty because maybe you didn't do your job?

[38:24] You know, you're leaving nurses kind of unprepared for the real world.

[38:30] And you've lived it. You've been in the real world and you know exactly what the real world is like.

[38:36] And personally, I don't think there's any better teacher than someone who has lived it, breathed it.

[38:45] Sunny: Absolutely.

[38:46] Michelle: Yeah. Such a sad state.

[38:48] Sunny: It really is. And it's,

[38:50] you know, this way of thinking, it just puts nursing so behind.

[38:57] And so there's many of us who want to be innovative and move the profession forward. And, and you know, Michelle, like, I work as a nurse practitioner in a clinical setting within neurosurgery, very specialized,

[39:11] but I can also do other things. And I think it's important that nurses who want to pursue other avenues in addition to whether it's bedside practicing in a traditional role or whether they want to solely use their degree to work in an untraditional path.

[39:30] You know, it doesn't mean it needs to be looked down upon.

[39:34] Nurses were created to do more. There's a reason we can become nurses because so many skills are actually so transferable into other fields, whether it's marketing, whether it's design,

[39:45] whether it's content creation, which so many nurses now have established a platform,

[39:51] you know, to highlight real world issues happening within the nursing field that people within academia are not going to talk about.

[39:59] You know, this is the first time I've really openly talked about these challenges within, like, the larger institutions,

[40:09] I think, because I just would encounter it and I would just sort of put it under the carpet and move on. But, you know, deep inside I just thought like,

[40:17] wow, like, why are people so unsupportive?

[40:22] Yeah, I just don't get it.

[40:26] Michelle: I don't either. I, they just must be threatened, you know,

[40:30] it's like, oh, are we going to get rid of academia? No. Does academia need to be overhauled? Yes.

[40:37] And man, I'm always blown away by that, but so glad that you're here.

[40:44] What excites you, Sunny, about the future of NP education and the role of nurse practitioners in healthcare?

[40:54] Sunny: So with NP education currently within Canada, they are revising the curriculum a little bit as of late and there's going to be a new Canadian exam that will be a national exam coming out in 2026.

[41:06] And I don't know what that curriculum is going to look like, but I am very hopeful that it will be more clinical based, especially as nurse practitioners.

[41:16] I feel like the programs,

[41:18] they can really lack the practical and foundational clinical skills of actual practice.

[41:26] Yes, we need to do the philosophy courses and, you know, research courses, but I think there needs to be a greater focus on the pharmacology, pharmacology, health assessments,

[41:38] those type of courses, more so.

[41:40] And so my hope is that that's what happens for NP education. That's definitely my goal and what I continue to work towards and what I already do within my courses.

[41:49] And then my excitement for the nurse practitioner profession in general is I feel like just within my own role I have had such an impact on patients.

[42:00] But even just from feedback from the team I work with, you know, I often get Sunny, we don't know how the unit runs without you. Or the residents I work with are just so thoughtful in how much they value my role as a nurse practitioner.

[42:15] Whereas this wasn't the case, you know, several, several years ago when nurse practitioners were first integrated.

[42:21] And now everybody within our hospital, every, you know, floor, wants a nurse practitioner. I'll have like the ENT,

[42:29] one of the ENT heads, ask me, Sunny, how do we get one of you? You know, so I think that is one of the biggest compliments in itself.

[42:37] And I think that nurse practitioners are so, so, so valuable to the healthcare system and they are truly going to be the ones that bridge the gap for these,

[42:48] so many of these orphan patients.

[42:50] And I'm not sure if you saw Michelle recently. There was a 96 year old woman who put an ad in the paper because she was without a provider for three years. Looking for a provider.

[43:03] Michelle: Wow.

[43:03] Sunny: And, you know, crazy. It is crazy. And, you know, my heart broke for her and.

[43:10] But I really thought I was like, you know, a nurse practitioner would love to take her on as a patient and provide that,

[43:17] and provide that holistic care that she deserves. And I think the most important thing with nurse practitioners as well is that having grown as a profession and becoming more established in our role,

[43:31] we have the ability to say no to places that we no longer think will serve us or that just aren't good environments for us and that we have the opportunity to choose certain roles now.

[43:43] Like, whereas before, if there was one NP, you know, job opportunity, so many people would apply and you would do it regardless of whether you enjoyed it or not. Whereas now you can really prioritize job satisfaction and if you're passionate about the role.

[43:59] And you know, for me, I'm so passionate about neurosurgery. My grandmother had a devastating brain aneurysm rupture many, many years ago when I was in nursing school. And she coded on the same unit I work in.

[44:12] And I feel like my role is greater than just being the neurosurgery NP, I feel like I have certain connection to the specialty and I think that's what motivates me to just keep going.

[44:25] Michelle: That's enough, right? That's enough.

[44:28] Sunny: Yep.

[44:29] Michelle: Yeah, and you know, I've, I've said this many times,

[44:34] My listeners know that I'm a big fan of nurse practitioners. My primary for the last almost 10 years has been a nurse practitioner.

[44:42] Sunny: Love that.

[44:43] Michelle: Yep. I absolutely love that model.

[44:46] There's, you know, when I was going through my cancer treatment,

[44:51] my oncologist would come in and spend, you know, two minutes and then the oncology nurse practitioner would come in and sit down just like we had all the time in the world.

[45:03] And it was amazing. It was a very busy practice. I knew that, but I never felt unheard, I never felt rushed.

[45:13] I think that's a superpower of nurse practitioners and I just see the model growing. Yeah, very cool.

[45:22] Okay, well, if you could share one piece of advice with nurses who are considering grad school,

[45:30] entrepreneurship or just a shift in their career, what would it be?

[45:37] Sunny: My advice would be is before leaving your existing position,

[45:42] do your research.

[45:43] So identify what it is exactly that you would like to be doing. And that has to involve what is truly your passion.

[45:53] It would involve, I would encourage students to either shadow, if they can, in a certain role or meet with other nurses or NPs who've done what you'd like to do or if there's a variation of what you'd like to do.

[46:08] Because rather than recreating the wheel,

[46:11] you can just follow a certain roadmap that may have already been created, but you're just going to do it a little bit differently.

[46:17] And I think the other piece would just be, is that, know that it's doable.

[46:21] It takes a lot of grit and hard work and perseverance despite long standing challenges, but it is doable.

[46:31] Michelle: I love that. That's a great message. It's doable.

[46:35] And I love also, you know, what you said about shadowing, I think that's such a valuable experience, seeking out those people that you want to emulate, that you want to see what is their day to day look like, what are their challenges.

[46:56] It really gives us a picture into do I have what it takes. So that's great advice.

[47:06] Well, okay. I've been asking this question now for about a year and it has it has afforded me so many fantastic guests.

[47:16] So, Sunny, is there someone you recommend as a guest on this podcast?

[47:21] Sunny: Would this be an RN or a NP?

[47:25] Michelle: Anybody now, I'm open.

[47:28] Sunny: Okay. Can I think about it?

[47:31] Michelle: Absolutely. I know 

[47:33] it's kind of an on the spot question and we can certainly talk off air. But yeah, I appreciate,

[47:41] anybody that you want to recommend for sure.

[47:45] Well, where can we find you? How can, how can folks access your courses?

[47:51] Sunny: Yeah, so My website is www.theteachingnp.com and I'm on social media on the various platforms at The Teaching NP. You can find me on YouTube,

[48:04] LinkedIn, Instagram, I'm on Pinterest, Facebook as well.

[48:09] So The Teaching NP,

[48:11] search me and you can find me or you can email me@infotheteachingnp.com 

[48:18] Michelle: Perfect. I will put all those in the show notes.

[48:21] And I just want to thank you, Sunny, for coming on and sharing your love for the profession,

[48:28] your passion for what you do, the resources that you've created, your advice for nurses.

[48:35] And I've just learned so much listening here, chatting with you, seeing your beautiful smile.

[48:44] Sunny: Thank you.

[48:45] Michelle: Thank you so much.

[48:47] Sunny: Thanks, Michelle.

[48:49] Michelle: Okay. We're at the last five minutes and it's the five minutes of fun.

[48:55] Although I feel like we've had a little bit of fun already.

[48:59] We've done a lot of smiling.

[49:02] So are you ready to play the five minute snippet?

[49:05] Sunny: I'm ready.

[49:07] Michelle: Okay.

[49:48] Convince me to live in Vancouver, Canada.

[49:52] Sunny: No matter what weather you enjoy, we have it all. We have snow. Good for snowboarding and skiing and snowshoeing, rain if you love jumping and puddles.

[50:01] And then also sunshine. Lots of beaches, mountains, and lots of bicycle trails and running trails and hiking. Beautiful views everywhere.

[50:12] Michelle: Sounds idyllic. Awesome. Okay, what are you currently listening to on audiobook?

[50:21] Sunny: I am currently listening to one of my favorite authors,

[50:26] Elka Joshi,

[50:28] and she's also written the Henna Artist and there's a trilogy she's created. And currently I'm listening to Elka Joshi's Six Days in Bombay.

[50:40] Michelle: Ooh, sounds interesting. Okay, I know you have three girls, so tell me a favorite game that you play with your girls.

[50:50] Sunny: Ooh, so lots of different games. Like we do things like tennis and hide and seek, especially with my younger one.

[50:58] But there's two silly games I play.

[51:02] So with my middle and my older one,

[51:04] anytime there's a word like salmon or champagne,

[51:10] I pronounce it exactly as it's spelled. So I say it's not champagne, it's champagne and things like baloney.

[51:20] I'll say bologna. And I tell them that they're wrong and I don't know what their English teachers are teaching them, but that is not how to pronounce these words.

[51:30] So they're bright kids, so they know that I'm being silly, but that is a common thing.

[51:36] My husband just rolls his eyes at me, so that's something I'll probably do well into their 50s and 60s and until I'm old and gray.

[51:43] And the second thing I do is I tell each of them that they're my favorite.

[51:50] So when I'm putting my middle one to bed. I'll. I'll say to her, you know, I love you. You're so strong. You're so kind. You're beautiful, and I'm so lucky to be your mom.

[52:00] You are my favorite. Don't tell the others.

[52:04] And then when I put my toddler to bed,

[52:07] I tell her how special and great and how lucky I am and how she completes her family and that she's my favorite. I give her a kiss on the forehead, the cheeks and the chin and the nose, and I say, but you're my favorite.

[52:19] Don't tell the others. And then she just smiles and drifts off to sleep. And she says, thank you, Mom.

[52:25] And I tell my oldest that, too, but she just rolls her eyes because she knows I'm lying.

[52:30] Michelle: I love that. Oh, my gosh. I'm gonna adopt the pronunciation and do that with my grandkids. I think that's brilliant.

[52:41] Sunny: It's so funny. Like, they just howl, so.

[52:44] Michelle: Oh, my gosh. Okay. Did you have a favorite childhood game?

[52:49] Sunny: Growing up, I would say California kickball.

[52:55] Michelle: Okay. That's cute. Okay, Sunny, There's a billboard on a major highway, and it has your picture on it. What is the message?

[53:09] Sunny: I think it'd be sort of my biggest principle: everyone has a story. Be kind.

[53:19] Michelle: Wow. Yes. Can we just, like, put that on every billboard across the country? Across Canada? Yeah.

[53:29] Sunny: It's a big thing I talk to my kids about as well, because when kids are mean at school, et cetera, I do talk to them. You know, there's only so much to tolerate, but we don't always know what's going on at home.

[53:39] Michelle: 100%. Yep. And it's so easy to just be kind. It costs nothing, Right?

[53:46] Sunny: Exactly.

[53:48] Michelle: Okay, finish this sentence. If I weren't a nurse practitioner, I would be a_______

[53:54] Sunny: Entrepreneur.

[53:57] Michelle: You already are.

[53:58] Sunny: Yeah, that's true. Maybe something within engineering.

[54:02] Michelle: Oh, okay. There's a backstory there.

[54:06] Sunny: Yeah.

[54:06] Michelle: Okay. What's the first thing you do when you get to your travel destination?

[54:13] Sunny: I Lysol the remote controls and the light switches and the toilets.

[54:19] Michelle: Oh, my God.

[54:20] Sunny: And the toilet.

[54:23] Michelle: Tell me you're a nurse without telling me you're a nurse. Right,

[54:28] I love that. Yeah, let's all adopt that, too.

[54:33] Okay, last question.

[54:36] Working out makes me feel _______

[54:44] Sunny: Strong. It helps clear my mind. I get some of my best ideas when I work out,

[54:50] and most importantly, I feel like I'll be able to be around long enough for my kids to get older and help them support their children.

[55:00] Michelle: I love that. You're looking at it as a legacy.

[55:05] Yeah. That's beautiful.

[55:07] And I have solved so many problems just by walking, going, you know, walking for a couple miles. It's just like your brain goes offline and all those things that you were ruminating about, suddenly you have an answer.

[55:22] It's like miraculous exercise.

[55:26] Sunny: I think if you can get into a routine with it, whether it's walking or just being outside or just something that you're totally focused on within yourself, like yoga.

[55:37] I feel like that's been lost for so long now with, like, tech, tech and social media.

[55:43] It is literally therapy for me going to the gym. And I think it's because I'm just in my own world.

[55:49] And I totally agree with you, Michelle. It stops the rumination.

[55:53] It puts small problems that we feel like are big into perspective again.

[56:00] And I think our mind gets clear enough where we can get some of our greatest ideas from. And I find it often helps me come up with solutions.

[56:10] Michelle: Yeah, it's really powerful on so many levels.

[56:14] Sunny: Yeah.

[56:14] Michelle: Well, Sunny, I have just enjoyed having you on today so much, and I want to thank you for everything you're doing for the profession,

[56:24] to improve things, to enlighten the profession, and your mentorship, your education, your innovation, your entrepreneurship. I have just really enjoyed meeting you and talking to you and so happy that we connected.

[56:46] Sunny: Thank you so much, Michelle. This was so lovely.

[56:49] Michelle: You have a great rest of your day.

[56:51] Sunny: You too.