Pioneering Visionary, Dr. June Forkner Dunn, Ph.D.

From launching Kaiser Permanente’s first website to building a global food & wine CEU tourism company, today’s guest has reinvented herself across medicine, tech, education, and entrepreneurship. We are diving into the story of June Forkner Dunn, a trailblazing nurse who has redefined what’s possible in leadership, innovation, and global vision.

June began her career in healthcare, founding Medical Consulting Resources—a company that provided expert witnesses in malpractice litigation, managing a team of nearly 20 doctors, nurses, and respiratory therapists. 

Her journey then took her to the corporate offices of Kaiser Permanente, where she held two groundbreaking roles: writing and presenting the Corporate Board Report for 13 Northern California hospitals, and later, helping to launch KP’s very first website in the early 2000s—implementing tools we now take for granted like emailing your doctor, renewing prescriptions online, and even using early AI to track patient discussion trends. She was using AI before we even knew what it was! And did I mention she has authored over 600 publications?

If that wasn’t enough, she spent 20 years as a faculty member at San Francisco State University—and then reinvented herself again by founding the first company in the U.S. to offer continuing education units to nurses through international food and wine tourism. Her company, Wine Knows Travel, now operates in 13 countries around the world.

Get ready for an inspiring conversation about vision, reinvention, and what it takes to be decades ahead of the curve. June’s journey is a masterclass in innovation, leadership, and knowing when to break the mold.

In the five-minute snippet: it’s an old, I mean vintage word, and I love it. For June's bio, visit my website, link below.

Internet-based Patient Self-care: The Next Generation of Healthcare Delivery

Expert Advice on Becoming an Expert Witness

To Err is Human-But Not in Healthcare

Expert Advice on Becoming and Expert Witness

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Transcript

[00:00] Michelle: From launching Kaiser Permanente's first website to building a global food and wine CEU tourism company,

[00:08] today's guest has reinvented herself across medicine, tech, education,

[00:13] and entrepreneurship.

[00:16] We are diving into the story of June Forkner Dunn, a trailblazing nurse who has redefined what's possible in leadership, innovation,

[00:26] and global vision.

[00:28] June began her career in healthcare, founding Medical Consulting Resources,

[00:33] a company that provided expert witnesses in malpractice litigation,

[00:37] managing a team of nearly 20 doctors, nurses and respiratory therapists.

[00:43] Her journey then took her to the corporate offices of Kaiser Permanente, where she held two groundbreaking roles,

[00:51] writing and presenting the corporate board report for 13 Northern California hospitals and later helping to launch Kaiser's very first website in the early 2000s.

[01:04] We're talking 25 years ago,

[01:07] implementing tools we now take for granted, like emailing your doctor, renewing prescriptions online,

[01:14] and even using early AI to track patient discussion trends.

[01:19] I mean, she was using AI before we even knew what it was.

[01:24] And did I mention she has authored over 600 publications?

[01:29] If that wasn't enough, she spent 20 years as a faculty member at San Francisco State University and then reinvented herself again by founding the first company in the United States to offer continuing education units to nurses through international food and wine tourism.

[01:51] Her company,

[01:52] Wine Knows Travel,

[01:54] now operates in 13 countries around the world.

[01:59] Get ready for an inspiring conversation about vision,

[02:03] reinvention,

[02:05] and what it takes to be decades ahead of the curve.

[02:09] June's journey is a masterclass in innovation, leadership, and knowing when to break the mold.

[02:18] In the five-minute snippet: It's an old,

[02:19] I mean, vintage word and I love it.

[02:39] Well, good morning, June. Welcome to the podcast.

[02:43] June: Thanks a bunch. And as I just said, I'm a Valley girl,

[02:48] born in Hanford, grew up in Corcoran. So I love it that I'm speaking with another Valley girl.

[02:56] Michelle: I love that.

[02:58] Well, I'm excited to talk to you today, June.

[03:01] We met through my brother Chris Patty, who has been a guest on this show several times now.

[03:08] And of course, as you know, Chris and his wife Mary have traveled with you many times with your business, Wine Knows Travel.

[03:18] And I want to talk all about that. But first, give us a brief introduction. Who is June Forkner Dunn?

[03:27] June: Well, well,

[03:28] I would say once a nurse, always a nurse.

[03:33] I am always at heart, but moreover, my life has changed dramatically since I left nursing,

[03:43] I like to think that I'm a passionate international traveler.

[03:48] I'm certainly a wine lover and epicurean,

[03:52] and I think of myself as really valuing healthy lifestyles.

[03:59] And last of all,

[04:01] I love to write, so I'm a writer.

[04:04] Michelle: Wow, you are multifaceted. What I want to know is what made you start a company providing expert witnesses for malpractice cases? How did that come about?

[04:18] June: Well, first of all, let's set some context. This was in the 80s,

[04:24] early 80s, mid-80s.

[04:27] That's important because it's a whole different landscape today.

[04:31] But back then,

[04:33] I had somehow come across someone doing some expert witness testimony. It was a physician, actually.

[04:41] And I thought it was intriguing. It was kind of like, ooh, this is like being a detective trying to go back and figure out what happened.

[04:53] So at the same time, you know,

[04:56] life kind of is interesting how things come about at this very same time. I just happened to learn that the California trial attorneys were having an annual conference in Monterey.

[05:11] And I thought, okay,

[05:13] I'm going to open a company.

[05:16] I'm going to buy a booth at that conference,

[05:19] and I'm going to, you know, have business cards, flyers, some type of a presentation, if you will.

[05:26] And I'm just going to like, go cold-call this group of attorneys and my company. I opened Medical Consulting Resources.

[05:37] Wow. It was a hit.

[05:40] And people had need for nurses in malpractice cases, but they had no idea of how to find them.

[05:50] So there I was, and at the time, I was doing critical care.

[05:55] And so pretty soon I started getting calls from attorneys for a labor and delivery nurse. And I said, oh, sure, sure, I can get you one of those.

[06:06] And then I, rather than giving them the name of the person, I thought,

[06:12] let me just arrange this for you and I'll send a contract in the mail to you.

[06:17] And then I got a call for,

[06:19] I don't know,

[06:21] emergency room nurse. And then I got a call for an anesthesiologist, and then I got a call for a cardiac surgeon.

[06:29] And that's exactly the way it happened.

[06:33] Michelle: Wow.

[06:34] I mean, that's amazing. So you were so, there's a thing now called legal nurse consulting.

[06:43] And so was that kind of the, the advent of that?

[06:48] June: That was even before that.

[06:52] There was no such thing as a nurse legal consultant. In fact,

[06:58] I did, I remember, you know, I told you I'm a writer, so I love using the library and no Internet back then. Again,

[07:07] you know, that was what, 30 some-odd years ago.

[07:11] So I said, okay, well, let me just go after I was going to testify in federal court,

[07:20] so let me just do a library search on what's available for expert witnesses.

[07:27] Well, there was nothing.

[07:29] And I said, whoa,

[07:31] jeepers. I think that after I get through my first trial, this might be an opportunity.

[07:38] So that's what happened. I did the trial and I learned a lot, and I went and wrote it down.

[07:46] And I think it was the American Journal of Nursing, somewhere in the mid-80s that published it. And I got so many calls just from that.

[07:57] Michelle: Did you have any business acumen before? Because that was really your first foray into, like, entrepreneurship.

[08:06] June: It was.

[08:08] Michelle: So, yeah. How did you.

[08:09] June: However.

[08:10] However,

[08:12] I had my little travel company.

[08:16] At that time, I was not doing nurses,

[08:20] meaning I had a travel company.

[08:23] I did one trip a year because I taught at the university.

[08:27] So I had just people who I knew who wanted to come with me.

[08:33] And I would do groups of 10, 12, 14.

[08:36] And so I had run a business. It was small,

[08:41] but, you know,

[08:44] I had to balance my books,

[08:46] so I did have that.

[08:48] Michelle: Yeah. So you had a framework in mind,

[08:51] and I'm sure that helped you with your medical consulting business.

[08:57] June, what's something valuable or surprising that you learned in that business working with over 20 medical experts?

[09:06] June: Well,

[09:07] at my biggest time, I had 20 different health professionals who were doing cases through me for a variety of attorneys throughout the state of California. So I would say,

[09:20] gosh,

[09:21] the biggest learning was doctors are really hesitant to testify against one another.

[09:30] I guess they all had their own war stories about malpractice, or they were paying all these exorbitant fees and they didn't want to step on anyone's toes.

[09:43] Funny, nurses didn't have that. Maybe it's because we didn't have at that time,

[09:50] malpractice insurance. Although I got mine shortly thereafter because I was thinking it was, you know, something coming.

[09:59] And I didn't want to think that the hospital was going to insure me for everything.

[10:07] But I think that the whole thing about, you know,

[10:11] being doctors aren't supposed to make mistakes.

[10:16] So when they do,

[10:18] it's an uncomfortable situation for everyone.

[10:22] And likewise,

[10:24] nurses aren't supposed to make mistakes,

[10:26] but we do.

[10:28] So that whole thing and how to deal with it and how to present yourself to a jury professionally,

[10:37] those were, like, big ticket items for me.

[10:41] Michelle: Wow. I mean,

[10:44] you've always been, it sounds like, a forward thinker.

[10:49] And so I know you worked for Kaiser,

[10:52] and you actually had two roles at Kaiser's corporate office. Which to me are just fascinating.

[11:00] But can you walk us through what it was like to write and present the corporate board report for 13 hospitals?

[11:11] June: I would say the first thing that comes to my mind, it was intimidating.

[11:17] I was before, for the Northern this I worked first for the Northern California 13 hospitals.

[11:26] So they had a regional office.

[11:29] I want to say I said intimidating, but I think it should have been terrifying.

[11:38] So, you know, these were all the big mover and shakers at Northern California regional offices. So you had the head of all the doctors, you had the head of legal,

[11:51] you had the head of nursing. You had the head of everything, basically.

[11:56] And my role for the corporate board report was it was a quarterly report.

[12:02] So over the quarter,

[12:05] the quality directors of the 13 hospitals all shared with me. I was privy to basically the good, the bad, the ugly. So all the best practices came in. All the things like sentinel events, those all came in, too.

[12:23] And my job was to track it,

[12:28] to make some sense of it,

[12:31] and then to make recommendations to the board for how to proceed with this.

[12:39] Michelle: How did you get that job? Was it because of your experience with your medical consulting business?

[12:45] June: No, but that's a good question.

[12:48] First of all, keep in mind that this job was not a job. It was not posted for a nurse.

[12:57] It required an MBA or a master's degree.

[13:03] And I had a master's degree in nursing at the time,

[13:07] but the person before me had an MBA and no medical experience.

[13:13] So it was really someone who could analyze the information,

[13:19] put it in a cogent format and present it.

[13:26] Michelle: Amazing.

[13:27] Really amazing.

[13:28] Well, your other job with Kaiser was in the early 2000s, and you helped launch their website.

[13:37] So this is something that,

[13:39] you know,

[13:41] many of the features that you implemented are really now standards in the industry.

[13:47] And these are from like, email your doctor to online prescriptions.

[13:54] June, did you realize at the time how ahead of the curve you were?

[13:59] June: I'm getting a little choked up as you're talking because, yes, I did.

[14:05] I remember when I saw that job posted on the whatever you want to call it, bulletin board, online,

[14:15] whatever.

[14:15] I remember I had a wonderful job with this board report thing.

[14:21] But when I saw it, I knew it was,

[14:24] this is it.

[14:26] You know, that job interview was over 25 years ago.

[14:31] I think it was in 2001 or something,

[14:34] too.

[14:35] But I still remember it, Michelle.

[14:39] I remember it because one of the questions, which is always a good question,

[14:45] why in the heck do you want the job?

[14:48] And I remember saying something like, Hey, 25 years ago. And I'm talking 1975. '76.

[15:00] I said, I can tell you why, because when I was in graduate School in 1975. '76.

[15:08] I remember one day I saw on the announcement for new classes,

[15:17] it was something like healthcare and computers again, 1975. I'm thinking some of your podcasts, most of your podcast listeners are not even going to have born.

[15:32] Michelle: That's so true.

[15:35] June: And I thought, that is the coolest thing I have ever seen.

[15:41] Michelle: Mm.

[15:42] June: And I remember it was not a nursing class. It was just open to the entire. I went to UC Medical center in San Francisco.

[15:52] So of course, you know, they're the first ones in the nation to offer this class.

[15:56] There were five or six of us in the class.

[16:01] And even though during that interview. Back to your question.

[16:07] Why did I want this job and how did I see it as being a path to the future?

[16:14] Yes, yes, and yes,

[16:16] it was a path. And I,

[16:19] I just felt even in 2001 when I was interviewing and the Internet, we have to remember, was in its neonatal stage, maybe embryonic, I don't know.

[16:32] But I knew,

[16:36] I felt it in my bones that it was, there's something here.

[16:41] And I was in the middle of working on my PhD,

[16:47] and I felt so strongly about it that I changed the topic of my doctoral thesis to the potential power of the Internet in healthcare.

[16:59] Michelle: Wow. Again, forward thinking.

[17:03] June: Well, sometimes, you know, forward thinking has gotten me in trouble a few times, more than a few. But not everyone sees the vision, so.

[17:13] Michelle: Yeah, well, you're definitely visionary.

[17:17] June: So that's exactly how it went. And actually my doctoral thesis, I was getting it at a Jesuit university,

[17:27] and I remember that my doctoral thesis, when I,

[17:32] my advisor said, you're going to change your thesis? And I said,

[17:37] yes, because I'm onto this, I gotta do it. And my,

[17:42] My former thesis was going to be on the

[17:47] importance of communication in healthcare.

[17:51] So I said, this is a spinoff. There is all this body of work that I've done can be parlayed. So I'm not switching horses.

[18:02] I'm just maybe,

[18:04] I don't know, putting a new saddle on the horse. I don't know exactly, but it felt right.

[18:09] It felt right and it was right.

[18:12] Oh, my gosh.

[18:14] Michelle: How were some of those features received by first of all the medical staff and then the community?

[18:22] June: Are you meaning features of the website such as email your Dr? Well, you can imagine.

[18:29] And I talked to a lot of medical staffs all over the United States because remember, Kaiser is in many states other than California, Oregon, Washington,

[18:45] Hawaii, the Mid-Atlantic states at that time, Texas.

[18:49] But so I would have to fly to these medical group meetings trying to basically sell email-your-doctor.

[19:02] And I understand change is tough.

[19:06] Look at what it was for nurses to learn how to, you know, use computers for bedside nursing.

[19:12] Michelle: Oh yeah, huge.

[19:14] June: I mean,

[19:16] it's just, it's new and it's.

[19:19] Their fear was. I used to say this to all the medical groups.

[19:24] You know, there's all these articles on when doctors offices first put in telephones and doctors were concerned. And then I'd read some of these,

[19:36] you know, things from articles verbatim. Thoughts of doctors about having a telephone in their office and how disruptive it would be,

[19:46] how they never see patients because they'd be on the phone so much and you know, understandable.

[19:57] Michelle: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, man, the first time that we had to use an electronic medical record,

[20:04] it's such a steep learning curve, right? And you know, we were all cursing it and you know, then it took a few months to really get used to it and we were like, oh, okay, I think I like this.

[20:15] And I remember the first time it went down and we had to go back to paper charting.

[20:21] we just about died. We were like, what? This is crazy. Give us back our computers any day.

[20:29] So it's hard to get used to, but once you do it, it seems to work. Well,

[20:35] let's talk about AI for a moment because I don't know if you know this or not, but my brother Chris is an evangelist for ChatGPT.

[20:47] That's how he defines himself. His love for it is so strong.

[20:51] But you worked with AI before it was even mainstream.

[20:58] So how did it work back then and how do you compare it to AI now?

[21:04] June: Well,

[21:06] let me say it was not even called AI then, right?

[21:12] It took me a while to connect the dots. Oh yeah, because I love ChatGPT too. And Chris, if you're listening to this,

[21:20] I'm never gonna let you live that one down. But so AI, all right, so I got the job. Oh my God, the best job of my career at Kaiser's corporate office for the website.

[21:36] You know, they loved all renegade ideas. You know, break the mold, think out of the box, do it a different way.

[21:45] I mean that, that was me. And you know,

[21:49] I wasn't getting in trouble for it. I was getting promoted.

[21:54] So anyway, back to AI. So,

[21:57] okay, so one of the things I looked at in the seven years that I worked for the website was, and by the way,

[22:06] again, a non nursing job.

[22:10] This was not no medical,

[22:13] no nursing, nothing,

[22:15] no Technical background either.

[22:18] But anyway, so AI. Well,

[22:21] all right. We had on the message on the website 30, 40, maybe even 50, I don't know. There were quite a few message boards.

[22:35] So for example, if you were a diabetic,

[22:40] and again, this was National Kaiser.

[22:44] Think of all the patients of National Kaiser with diabetes.

[22:49] We had a message board that was moderated by a Kaiser Permanente physician who was a diabetic specialist, specialists. So we had millions of messages that people everywhere from, I don't know, Portland, Oregon to Texas to,

[23:12] I don't. Baltimore,

[23:14] the Central Valley were writing about all these things that they had issues with family medicines,

[23:23] you know, weight control,

[23:24] insulin,

[23:25] yada, yada.

[23:27] And remember, this was just one of the 30, 40 boards we had.

[23:33] Michelle: Wow.

[23:34] June: We had so many messages that it was mind boggling.

[23:40] So we didn't know how to mine these for data. We didn't know we had senses.

[23:47] But once you get a million messages in a message board,

[23:51] it's kind of hard to say what are the top three concerns with any peace in it.

[23:58] So, you know, being in the right place, the right time, I don't know, being open.

[24:05] I was actually,

[24:06] I think I was dating someone that it was, he was a car guy. That's right. Okay.

[24:14] He was totally into cars.

[24:16] And one night he was telling me about this message board that he belonged to that was for car people that own this certain little Porsche and how, you know,

[24:31] blah, blah, blah,

[24:33] so many messages and it was hard to follow it. But the, the company, it was Edmunds Cars,

[24:42] which has now been bought out by CarMax.

[24:46] Edmond's cars knew everything about every kind of car.

[24:50] And they hired someone to come in and say, what is this Porsche group talking about? Give us the top three things because we'd like to use that for marketing or for, I don't know, whatever else they wanted.

[25:05] And nonetheless, so I said, you know what? Oh my gosh, Edmunds, I've never even heard of it. Have you heard of Edmunds or Car Max, Michelle?

[25:15] Have you heard of any of those car things?

[25:18] Michelle: Just CarMax. Not Edmunds.

[25:20] June: Okay, well, you know, Chevrolet, I don't know, Mercedes, Ford trucks, you name it. Edmunds had a message board for all these car owners.

[25:33] Michelle: Wow.

[25:33] June: I mean, can you imagine what, you know, they, I'm sure they have one for Tesla.

[25:38] Michelle: Oh my goodness.

[25:40] June: So I got on the phone call,

[25:45] got on the phone, called Edmonds, found out who was in charge of this Porsche group and found out that who they had hired to come in and do this.

[25:58] So the wonderful thing about Kaiser Permanente is.

[26:03] They were forward-thinking.

[26:05] And if you had a solid business case,

[26:09] you could present how this could benefit members and maybe save the organization money too.

[26:19] Hey, you got the funds,

[26:21] so the resources were there.

[26:23] So I pleaded a case. Look, if we know what these people are really saying in every single group,

[26:31] we can better target this. We can look at all the what we could do,

[26:36] you know,

[26:37] the number of hospitalizations, ER visits, doc visits that we could save.

[26:43] So they gave me the money. I hired the person from Edmonds, who was a woman, by the way.

[26:50] Michelle: Wow.

[26:51] June: And she wasn't at Edmunds.

[26:54] She was a consultant, an IT consultant for mining data. That's what was putting it, data mining.

[27:04] And so we hired her. She came out the corporate office, which happened to be in Oakland, which is where I lived.

[27:11] And I knew when we were doing this it was cutting edge. And I'm like, oh my gosh, there are so many uses for this technology of mine. I'm going to call it mining data.

[27:27] But that's what they did. They analyzed millions of messages.

[27:32] And six months later, we knew the top 10 things that were most meaningful to Kaiser members.

[27:39] We knew the top 10 things that were most troubling.

[27:45] And she and I actually ended up publishing this whole work in the Journal of Medical Internet research in 2004. And I always say, Google yourself to see what's out there.

[28:00] But I did this maybe six months ago and I saw this article come up and I couldn't believe it because there were people and I counted them for 10 or 12 countries in the world that were quoting this research.

[28:21] So everything from England to Australia to Dubai and India.

[28:27] Michelle: That's amazing. I mean, again, you know, your forward-thinking philosophy, you know, paired with Kaiser's, it was just like a match made in heaven.

[28:41] June: It really was. It was my favorite job of my career.

[28:44] Michelle: That's fantastic.

[28:45] June: Other than teaching and working as a nurse.

[28:49] Michelle: Well, let's talk about teaching. Let's talk about academia because you taught at San Francisco State University for two decades.

[29:00] So what was your teaching philosophy and how did your nursing experience kind of shape your academic approach?

[29:11] June: Well, my nursing philosophy,

[29:14] that might be just the best question I've ever been asked,

[29:18] but it's near and dear to my heart because I don't know where I heard this, but it may have been graduate school.

[29:28] The word educate comes from the verb educare, which is Latin.

[29:35] And this always struck me when they said what it meant because they said it means literally in Latin. To bring out,

[29:47] to bring forth.

[29:49] I'm not sure exactly. But it's to,

[29:52] The thing was, it's something is there and you're in the role to coach it out,

[29:59] to like lift it out, but it's there.

[30:03] And I always love that.

[30:06] And I thought, I have all these wonderful students and they each have something so unique.

[30:14] And it became my, my mantra.

[30:17] Michelle: Well, that's beautiful. First of all, I love Latin.

[30:20] I took two years of Latin in high school before they got rid of it.

[30:25] There wasn't enough participation, but I just loved it. And I love Latin phrases like that.

[30:32] And I mean that is so accurate. Right. It comes right down to,

[30:38] what we do in academia, in education.

[30:44] It's not just telling people how things are,

[30:51] it's bringing out those things that are probably in all of us, but we don't know it and we don't know how to express it.

[31:02] And so to be in that position,

[31:05] that's just beautiful.

[31:06] What did you get your Ph.D. in June?

[31:09] June: Healthcare Administration.

[31:11] Michelle: Okay, wow. That has served you well. So what are some of the biggest changes that you witnessed in nursing education between the 70s and the 90s?

[31:25] June: Well, keeping in mind,

[31:27] I got my Master's in the mid-70s, so it was very unusual machine skill for a nurse to have a master's back then.

[31:37] I mean,

[31:39] most programs at the time were three year diploma programs.

[31:45] Michelle: True. Yeah.

[31:47] June: So not a lot of four year programs. I went to UC Med center for my undergraduate and also for my graduates. So to work in a hospital as a nurse with a master's degree,

[32:04] I worked at a magnet hospital. I don't even know if they have those things now. Probably not. But it was,

[32:12] you know, an upper echelon hospital that had to have proof that it had very advanced programs.

[32:22] And I remember, you know, it was a several hundred bed hospital and out of the thousands of RNs on staff,

[32:30] I was the only one at the bedside with a master's.

[32:35] Michelle: A master's, wow.

[32:36] June: So that one right there, I mean, you know, there were more nurse administrators with masters, Right. That wasn't me.

[32:45] Michelle: Yeah.

[32:47] June: So also then if you move to the 1980s, my alma mater, UC Med Center in San Francisco,

[32:55] well, they shocked me.

[32:57] I didn't see this coming.

[33:00] They got rid of their undergraduate program and they only focused on masters and nurse practitioners, so advanced practice. So I didn't, like I said, I couldn't believe it.

[33:18] But at the same time, there were more four year universities coming on board. So why should they replicate it?

[33:26] I don't know, because.

[33:29] But also at the same time,

[33:32] I was, as you said, at San Francisco State University.

[33:36] And lo and behold,

[33:39] they said if, or we said if

[33:43] UC Med center down the block is no longer offering undergraduates.

[33:49] This is a time ripe for change. Okay, what can we do?

[33:54] All right,

[33:55] so I wish it were my idea. It was not.

[33:59] Someone said,

[34:00] I have all these friends who are really smart, who would be great nurses, and they have undergraduate's degree in history,

[34:11] English and literature,

[34:13] I don't know,

[34:15] psychology.

[34:16] Isn't there some way that we could do a program that we could give them like a nursing degree in two or three years and if we give it to them in three years, why not do a master's degree?

[34:35] So I mean to tell you, I was like, this could be really interesting.

[34:44] And so I was so happy to say I taught in the very first program that did this.

[34:53] And I saw all these wonderful people mature,

[35:00] knew what they wanted,

[35:02] had children, had experience,

[35:06] had life under their belt,

[35:08] and were coming to nursing perhaps for all the right reasons, I don't know,

[35:14] but it just made more sense than someone who's 18 or 19.

[35:20] But anyway, it was cutting edge and I just love being a part of it. And as you know,

[35:29] because you said '70s to '90s, you know, that's when I left nursing. I had my 20 years in at the university and I just said, I'm taking an early retirement and I got a job at Kaiser doing a special research project for one year and the rest is history.

[35:53] I never left.

[35:54] Michelle: Wow,

[35:56] that's fantastic. And I would venture to say that, you know,

[36:00] you working at the bedside with a master's and being the only nurse,

[36:06] it's kind of still the same today.

[36:09] There are not many master's prepared nurses working at the bedside.

[36:14] You know, they seem to be in management or academia,

[36:20] but again,

[36:21] you know, cutting edge.

[36:24] And man, that must just be,

[36:27] it must feel so neat to have that history of being the first to do things.

[36:37] You're a pioneer for sure.

[36:39] June: Well, my pioneering spirit, as I mentioned maybe 15 minutes ago,

[36:47] if people aren't ready for pioneers, I mean, you know, nurses are not supposed to make waves, right.

[36:55] And you know, to be a pioneer you need to do,

[36:58] create some currents.

[37:00] And you know, I just,

[37:04] our profession was changing and I just jumped on the bandwagon and let the current float me in different directions. That all knew things were changing and I was there.

[37:20] Michelle: Yeah. And you know, I've had the pleasure now of speaking with 105 nurses through this podcast. And so many of them are entrepreneurs like yourself who have just made waves in the industry and shaken things up and reinvented themselves.

[37:45] And I think it's reinventing the profession really slowly. More one nurse at a time.

[37:52] And it's really exciting to see.

[37:55] June: Wow. As I was thinking about this podcast and I thought, wow, I've had a wonderful career. And talk about timing. Oh, it was just like perfect.

[38:09] Michelle: Yeah, really.

[38:10] June: So who knows what the podcast in 2040 are going to look like? I mean. Oh, my goodness. Goodness.

[38:19] Michelle: Exactly.

[38:20] Well, before we get to your food and wine tourism business,

[38:25] I was astounded that you have published over 600 articles June.

[38:32] So talk about some of your favorite or most memorable publications.

[38:38] June: Well, I think I mentioned one. The one when we were talking about AI.

[38:44] Michelle: Yeah.

[38:44] June: When you data mined the message boards of millions of messages at Kaiser.

[38:51] That was really cool.

[38:54] Another one of my favorites was when I wrote the article on how to become an expert witness. How to be an expert and be an expert witness, if you will.

[39:06] That was, you know, way, way back when.

[39:10] And I loved it. Unfortunately, that article,

[39:14] every trial I was at,

[39:17] the opposing attorney would bring up that article and try to unravel me.

[39:25] He would try to like, catch me in something. And I just so loved that he or she brought it up that it just made me even probably testify better.

[39:40] That one I liked.

[39:42] But, you know, in 1982, I think one of the ones I liked the best I wrote should line beyond your menu.

[39:54] I have, I'm looking at a copy of it right now because my sister had it framed for me and it's five, four pages in the magazine the Professional Nutritionist.

[40:09] And again, 1982.

[40:13] So again, you're, there'll be podcast listeners that weren't even born.

[40:19] Michelle: That was the year I graduated high school.

[40:24] June: Anyway, at that time, especially in the medical profession,

[40:30] alcohol was a taboo. I mean, we all took care of people who were dying in ICU with cirrhosis of the liver. And it was enough to really make you think if you wanted to have whatever it was.

[40:45] You know, I think at that time wine was, I was drinking gin and tonics probably. But anyway,

[40:52] so this article,

[40:56] it was a unique thing for a health professional to come out with the possible benefits of drinking. And this was only about wine.

[41:08] So this dovetailed nicely because 60 Minutes,

[41:15] that my favorite television show, by the way,

[41:19] had just had a show on it that's become a landmark show.

[41:25] It's was the French Paradox. Do you ever remember hearing about the French Paradox at all?

[41:32] Michelle: No.

[41:33] June: You do no. Okay. So basically 60 minutes put on this Sunday night program that had researchers questioning why France.

[41:47] Okay, let me ask you this, Michelle. Have you been to France?

[41:50] Michelle: No.

[41:51] June: Okay,

[41:52] well, Chris has been to France several times and will give you,

[41:57] you know, great details on how the French diet, which is laden with butter and cheeses, I think there are 500, over 500 cheeses in France.

[42:08] How these people who are eating butter in everything and gobs of it have one of the lowest rates of heart disease in the world.

[42:19] And that's the paradox. Yeah.

[42:21] Michelle: Wow.

[42:22] June: So that was a foray into looking at how could this possibly be.

[42:32] Well, so I wrote an article about it, but I had also done my master's thesis on the therapeutic effects of wine.

[42:44] That was in 1976.

[42:47] So, you know, I was shocked to see that after that article was published in the professional nutritionist again, '82, 43 years ago,

[43:02] the Dallas Time Herald,

[43:05] that's their, like big, you know, like the LA Times or the San Francisco Chronicle sent me an article and in the Sunday Lifestyle section,

[43:18] I was the entire front page.

[43:21] I was not but my vertical was.

[43:26] And they had.

[43:28] I'm looking at it right now because I had that one framed.

[43:32] It shows a very, it could be a woman of today in a gym. She's in her little workout outfit.

[43:40] You know, it looks like spandex. It certainly wasn't me.

[43:44] But,

[43:45] you know, she's holding her,

[43:47] A glass of wine up on her bicep.

[43:52] Michelle: Oh, wow.

[43:53] June: That's, you know, in really great shape.

[43:56] So they published the entire article again,

[44:01] 1982.

[44:03] Alcohol was bad.

[44:06] And now we look at it and that whole idea today,

[44:10] you know,

[44:11] like, all things in moderation.

[44:15] Michelle: Exactly.

[44:16] June: You know.

[44:16] Michelle: Yep.

[44:17] Wow.

[44:18] Again, June, cutting edge. That's amazing.

[44:22] I would love the link to that article if you can find it. I would love to put that in the show notes. I think it would be really fascinating for people to read.

[44:31] June: Okay, I'll run a search on it and if not, I will scan it and send it to you in some format that you can get it to people.

[44:43] Michelle: Perfect.

[44:43] June: Pubmed is still around. I'm sure I can dig it up.

[44:47] Michelle: Perfect. I love it.

[44:48] June: I'll just figure out how to do it. Let me make a note right now to myself so I don't forget. But anyway.

[44:56] Michelle: Well, let's talk about Wine Knows Travel. How did you come up with the idea to offer nursing CEs through food and wine tourism?

[45:09] June: I'm going to sound like a real old fogey on this, but I'm really nice.

[45:15] I mean, I still wear high, you know, I still wear short skirts, you know, tight pants and heels.

[45:22] I guess that is old fogy. But anyway,

[45:26] so back to the mid-70s,

[45:30] I was married to a real estate developer and CE was required for him to renew every year, every two years. I'm not even sure his real estate license.

[45:42] Michelle: No, I didn't know they had to do that.

[45:45] June: Yeah, and they still do, I'm pretty sure. Oh, yeah, they still do because of all the laws, I mean.

[45:51] Michelle: Yeah. Things changing.

[45:53] June: Yes.

[45:54] And so we were always getting flyers in the mail to attend like some,

[46:00] I don't know, really ritzy-looking class in Boston or say London.

[46:05] Hey. And even in Paris and Buenos Aires.

[46:10] Michelle: Wow.

[46:11] June: And so. And we went.

[46:13] Because I was a travel bug. Then I'm like, hey, yeah, we can write this off. Why not?

[46:20] But so this organization, there were several that we kept getting flyers on these all over the US and world seminars.

[46:31] They had CE for a host of professionals. But okay, so there were CPAs,

[46:38] docs,

[46:40] attorneys, real estate, let's see.

[46:43] But no nurses.

[46:46] And I thought, guess what?

[46:49] You know, a few years in,

[46:51] and I think it was '78 or '79 that nursing CE came in to be mandated.

[46:59] Might have been 1980, but it wasn't past that.

[47:04] So I thought, you know, nursing CE is going to be required next year and I'm going to,

[47:12] you know, basically contact this company that we went on so many trips with and ask them why they're not doing nursing CE's. So, you know, you always build your case.

[47:26] What can I do for you?

[47:28] Have you ever thought of nurses? We have,

[47:30] I don't know, I'm going to make up some number off the top of my head, 750,000 nurses in the state of California that are soon going to be mandated to have CE.

[47:41] And you need to jump on this bandwagon. And guess what?

[47:44] I can jump pretty high right there with you.

[47:48] And so I sent them basically the business case for why they needed to add nurses to the mix.

[47:56] And I remember sitting in that office,

[48:00] the CEO,

[48:02] and before I walked out the door, he. He hired me.

[48:08] Because he could see, he was in it to make money, right?

[48:13] Michelle: Well, yeah. And that model was already there, you know,

[48:17] to provide CEs to all these other disciplines.

[48:21] And you just saw that, hey, nursing is missing out of this and that's a huge opportunity.

[48:28] And wow, that's fantastic.

[48:31] June: Well, and I was also teaching at the university, so I had the credentials, if you will.

[48:37] Michelle: Yeah.

[48:38] June: To kind of make it all happen. And I've been to Europe many times, and of course, guess where I wanted to take my group, to Europe.

[48:49] So I know I was the first nurse to do CEs out of the US, that I know.

[48:56] Michelle: Wow.

[48:57] June: Yeah.

[48:58] Michelle: How did people react to that?

[49:01] June: Okay, well, you know, it was on the therapeutic effects of wine.

[49:07] Michelle: Okay.

[49:08] June: So, you know, a lot of nurses came and thought it was going to be like this, you know, shopping,

[49:15] you know, culture, visit the Louvre and go out and drink all this wine.

[49:22] Well, it was that.

[49:24] But guess what? We also have, you know, at that moment every day, the equivalent of PowerPoint presentations.

[49:34] We also met with key researchers all over France who were behind the French paradox. So we were at the,

[49:44] I'll never forget being at the US Embassy in Paris because that's where the classes were held for the nurses.

[49:53] It was an unbelievable moment. And to see the quality of medical professionals up there with translators,

[50:03] I felt like I was at the UN.

[50:05] Michelle: Yeah, it's gonna feel like that.

[50:08] June: But yes, they came thinking it was gonna be smoke and mirrors and fun and wine. And it was all that plus a really solid background into the theories and the research behind why French people have low incidence of heart disease.

[50:27] And it had to do with red wine,

[50:31] Michelle: the Resveratrol?

[50:33] June: Yes. Oh, my gosh.

[50:35] How do you know that?

[50:36] Michelle: Oh, I know a few things.

[50:41] June: That's right. That's the pigment in the red grape skin.

[50:45] Michelle: That's right.

[50:47] June: It's also in tea and a lot of other things. Green tea. Good for you, Michelle.

[50:53] Michelle: Well, June, now that you're in 13 countries, has anything surprised you about combining the nursing education with the culinary cultural travel?

[51:08] June: The biggest surprise is my clientele seeing nurses who are

[51:16] becoming bon vivants,

[51:19] or in non-French terms,

[51:22] sophisticated wine and food people.

[51:27] That used to be only the hobby of cardiologist or pulmonologist or somebody that was not a nurse.

[51:38] Michelle: Exactly.

[51:38] June: So nurses are making more money and they're spending and they're educating themselves and they're taking up hobbies that were once ascribed only to the medical field. That's what I see has changed.

[51:55] Michelle: Yeah, it's a whole other group,

[51:57] so traditionally, I mean,

[52:01] travel has been kind of travel and culture has been designated for,

[52:08] you know, the ones that are more

[52:13] Have more, I guess you could say earning capacity.

[52:17] But like you said, things are changing. I mean, nurses are earning more than they ever have,

[52:22] and they are also finding their work life balance.

[52:28] And, you know, on their time off, they want to travel, they want to see the world. They want to experience different cultures.

[52:37] How do you think learning abroad changes the way nurses engage with education?

[52:44] June: Well, I would say, how does traveling abroad change anyone's life? Not just nurses. So for me, traveling opens your eyes and broadens your horizons, regardless of your occupation.

[53:04] Michelle: So true.

[53:07] June: I was on the east coast just a few weeks ago, and I happened to do a go through the home of,

[53:20] So I'm trying to think, it wasn't Walt Whitman. 

[53:28] I went to both of their houses, but doggone. I know it was Mark Twain's house.

[53:37] And I remember I can't quote it exactly,

[53:41] but he said there was a quote in the gift shop, which I came across and said something like,

[53:52] travel is fatal to prejudices and bigotry and being narrow-minded.

[54:01] Michelle: Wow.

[54:02] June: It was something like that.

[54:05] And I thought,

[54:06] oh, my gosh,

[54:08] that's it in a nutshell.

[54:10] Yep,

[54:11] And so your question was, how did nurses react? Well,

[54:16] I think nurses are folks. And so,

[54:20] you know, and they're people folks. So it's a heart of the people of experiencing all the differences.

[54:28] I think viva la difference.

[54:32] Good things come from differences.

[54:35] Michelle: Yeah, I agree with that. Well, looking back on your career, is there a common thread that has driven your work?

[54:49] June: I would say doing what I love,

[54:55] that's been really key. And I also say being that renegade, kind of pushing the envelope,

[55:04] thinking out of the box and taking risks, and sometimes those risks, Michelle, didn't pay off.

[55:14] Michelle: Yeah.

[55:16] I think you're so unusual in that aspect.

[55:19] I think I think of myself when I say this, that,

[55:23] you know, I am not one to take risks.

[55:27] And so something like that. After talking to so many entrepreneurs,

[55:32] nursepreneurs that, you know, have pivoted out of the,

[55:36] bedside, out of the institutions and into their own businesses. I'm always in,

[55:43] awe because I'm like, man, that's so risky to like leave this job where you have all these benefits and you have insurance and you know, and, and what if it fails?

[55:57] You know, what if you don't make it?

[55:59] And they've just been such great teachers like you to,

[56:05] okay, if it doesn't make it, then,

[56:10] you know, you're still a nurse.

[56:12] You can always do something else in nursing.

[56:17] And so they don't seem to have that fear,

[56:20] and they seem to be fearless as, as you do as well.

[56:24] Talking to you.

[56:26] And I say, you know, doing what you love is. It's never going to lead you astray for sure.

[56:33] What advice would you give to nurses that are looking to blend their clinical expertise with entrepreneurship?

[56:44] June: Oh, well, certainly we know, well,

[56:46] nursing education back up into the '90s. I don't know about now. Maybe you could answer that. Do they have classes, business classes for nurses?

[56:57] Because that would be my recommendation.

[57:00] Michelle: Yes. I talked to a nurse practitioner that owns his own company and he helps nurse practitioners launch their own company.

[57:13] And that was one of my things about, you know, my question to him was,

[57:18] you know, what's missing in academia as far as for nurses? And you know, he said that like there's no business acumen.

[57:28] It's like nurses aren't supposed to go into business for themselves, they're supposed to serve others.

[57:35] You know, it's this, it's this culture of service and not self-service that is missing.

[57:44] June: Yeah, well, you know, doctors struggle with the same thing.

[57:47] Michelle: Yeah.

[57:49] June: They are not prepared to run an office.

[57:52] Michelle: Right.

[57:53] June: You know, they have those growing pains. So I think it's part of the medical,

[57:57] And I think you hit on a key point. We're all about service.

[58:01] Yeah, I never thought of that. But I'd say, you know, there are a million junior colleges in our backyard, right?

[58:08] Michelle: Yeah.

[58:09] June: Well, maybe not a million, but a couple. And take a business class. Learn how to write a business plan.

[58:16] Michelle: Exactly.

[58:17] June: You know, take a public speaking class. Be comfortable in front of an audience.

[58:27] Michelle: Yes.

[58:28] June: Yeah. Be 10 or 20 or 250.

[58:32] Michelle: Well, you know, when you think about it like a typical bedside nurse,

[58:37] you have an audience all day long for 12 hours.

[58:43] Right. You have students who are watching you, you have other allied health professionals, you have the family,

[58:51] you have the patient.

[58:54] So you have an audience.

[58:56] And you know, I don't know why we don't see it as that,

[59:01] but we certainly should. And we certainly could do some of those things like, you know,

[59:07] contact our local Toastmasters, our Rotary.

[59:12] Yeah. Get into those things.

[59:15] June: But you know, even more important, I'm going to say equally important to business and your speaking acumen is computer and technology skills.

[59:28] Michelle: Yeah.

[59:29] June: I'm not talking Excel and PowerPoint. Those are dinosaurs. Everybody knows Excel but, well, if you've written a business plan, you know, Excel,

[59:39] but using social media,

[59:41] oh my gosh, come on, there's all kinds of stuff. So if you're looking at doing something entrepreneurial,

[59:50] whatever profession you know, you have,

[59:54] you have a marketing possibility at your fingertips.

[59:58] Michelle: Such great advice. Well, what is next for Wine Know Travel? June, are there any new countries on the horizon?

[01:00:07] June: Oh, you know, I've done everything on my bucket list.

[01:00:13] Michelle: Okay.

[01:00:15] June: And now I'm repeating all those that I love. So, you know, if I went school in the '70s, I'm pretty old.

[01:00:24] So in spite of lots of plastic surgery,

[01:00:31] I would say,

[01:00:33] you know, I'm winding down. In fact, you know, I'm seriously looking at selling my company in the next two or three years.

[01:00:41] Michelle: Okay.

[01:00:42] June: So there's nothing new on the horizon.

[01:00:49] You know, I'm just doing all the places that I love. I just leased a 10,000 square foot villa on the Amalfi coast.

[01:01:00] Michelle: Oh, my goodness.

[01:01:01] June: Which is owned by one of the wealthiest families in Italy.

[01:01:08] And I reached out to my favorite clients and said, here's the villa.

[01:01:19] Are you in? Are you out? Because at this stage, I'd like to just take just people who I really enjoy,

[01:01:27] like your brother, Chris,  David Wilson, who's been on your podcast.

[01:01:35] Michelle: Yes, he has.

[01:01:37] June: They all wrote back. Yes, we're in.

[01:01:41] Michelle: Oh, awesome.

[01:01:42] June: You know, I'm doing this kind of VIP invite only because it's my last hurrah, so why not?

[01:01:53] Michelle: Wow, what an opportunity. How fantastic is that? Well, like, Chris recommended you, June, as a guest on this podcast. Is there someone that you recommend as a guest?

[01:02:08] June: You know, let me think about that.

[01:02:11] Michelle: Okay.

[01:02:12] June: Before I recommend it and put their name out there, I'd like to give them the courtesy of a call.

[01:02:17] Michelle: Absolutely.

[01:02:18] June: But I'll find some names for you.

[01:02:22] Michelle: Okay.

[01:02:23] June: Absolutely. Let me write that down, too. So I need to get a copy of my article, at least that one. And then recommendations.

[01:02:35] Michelle: Yes. Lovely. Well, where can we find you? Where can we find your business?

[01:02:43] June: Wine Knows, that's K N O W S Travel.com. Or you could just Google my name and it'll come up in the top 10.

[01:02:57] Michelle: Lovely. Wow. I know there's going to be people reaching out. Who knows, maybe there'll be some entrepreneur that says, june, I want to buy your business.

[01:03:08] June: You know what? Crazier things have happened, I mean, maybe there's a risk taker out there.

[01:03:16] Michelle: Exactly.

[01:03:17] June: That's what all the work is done. And think of all the new possibilities of what you could do so when you do the podcast in 2040,

[01:03:28] they can tell you why. No.

[01:03:31] Michelle: There you go.

[01:03:33] I love it.

[01:03:34] I love your attitude and your enthusiasm. And I have really enjoyed our conversation today,

[01:03:42] as I knew I would. When Chris started talking about you and telling me of all of your achievements and accomplishments, I was like, wow, cool. Okay, let's do it.

[01:03:53] So thank you, June, for being my guest.

[01:03:55] June: Michelle. It's been more than an honor and more than a privilege. And as one Valley girl to the other, thank you very much.

[01:04:07] Michelle: It's been my pleasure.

[01:04:09] Well, you're not off the hook yet because we're at the last five minutes and this is when we do the five minute snippet.

[01:04:16] It's just five minutes of fun.

[01:04:19] So are you ready?

[01:04:21] June: We just had an hour and five minutes of fun, so why not continue?

[01:04:27] Michelle: Why not? Five more minutes, right?

[01:05:09] Convince me to live in your hometown.

[01:05:12] June: Oh, that's real easy. Don't. I grew up in Corcoran. I was born in Hanford.

[01:05:22] Michelle: Okay.

[01:05:22] June: There wasn't a hospital in Corcoran and there still isn't a hospital in Corcoran.

[01:05:28] Michelle: Very rural. Yes.

[01:05:30] June: Yeah. Unfortunately, Corcoran has not done well. So do not, do not go. But there is a good Chinese restaurant.

[01:05:41] Michelle: Okay. What's the first thing you do when you get to your travel destination?

[01:05:49] June: Make sure there is a bathtub and not a shower.

[01:05:54] Michelle: Oh, okay. You're a bathtub girl, huh?

[01:05:59] June: Getting off, yes, of course. I love to relax in the bathtub. And showers to me are not relaxing.

[01:06:06] Michelle: That's true.

[01:06:07] June: What will you do?

[01:06:09] Michelle: It's the showers are not relaxing. There's too much work involved and not enough just lounging.

[01:06:16] The first thing I do when I get to my travel destination is I am kind of weird. I like to unpack my suitcase and like, hang everything up in the closets and put things in the drawers and just kind of put things away.

[01:06:32] June: I could appreciate that. Yeah, that would be right up at the top.

[01:06:36] Michelle: Yeah.

[01:06:37] June: But yeah, bathtub.

[01:06:40] Michelle: Love it. Do you have or did you have a favorite childhood game?

[01:06:46] June: You know, I'm only 5ft tall and weigh 110 pounds,

[01:06:52] so I would say hide and seek because I was always the runt.

[01:06:58] I was always the last person chosen for all the athletic teams.

[01:07:03] Michelle: Oh, and you could probably hide really well.

[01:07:07] June: Yeah, See, that was the only benefit to being a pipsqueak.

[01:07:11] Michelle: I love that. I love that term, pipsqueak. You never hear it anymore.

[01:07:16] That's an old term, but I love it.

[01:07:18] Okay. Is there a favorite country that you will always return to?

[01:07:23] June: Italy. Yeah. You've not been to France, but have you traveled outside the US? 

[01:07:34] Michelle: Just to Mexico and Canada via cruises. Yes.

[01:07:39] June: Okay.

[01:07:40] Michelle: Yes. I'm not as well traveled as my brother.

[01:07:43] June: Okay. Yeah. Well, he's definitely got the D. I thought it might be DNA, but I guess it might not.

[01:07:50] Michelle: I don't think it is. I don't think it is. Okay. On the flip side of that, is there a country you will never visit again?

[01:07:59] June: Wow. I've loved every country. No, not at all.

[01:08:08] Michelle: That's wonderful. That's great. Okay, there's a billboard by a major highway with your picture on it, June. What is the message?

[01:08:20] June: Don't leave a sip in wine's glass. And I'm going to be holding a glass, by the way, and it would be of wine.

[01:08:30] Michelle: Okay. I love it. Okay. You have a day to yourself with zero obligations. How do you spend it?

[01:08:41] June: I wouldn't know because I've never had that kind of a day. 

[01:08:46] Michelle: Just pretend. Zero.

[01:08:52] June: Or even saddle.

[01:08:54] Michelle: I don't know.

[01:08:56] June: Oh, no, I don't.

[01:08:59] Michelle: Okay. All right, last question. What is your advice for nervous travelers like me?

[01:09:11] June: Wow. Well, there's certainly a lot of them, so you're not alone.

[01:09:15] Michelle: That makes me feel better.

[01:09:17] June: Yeah, no, you know, fear of the unknown. Hello, we're nurses. We know how powerful that is for our patients.

[01:09:24] Michelle: Yeah.

[01:09:27] June: I think knowledge is power.

[01:09:29] So I'm approaching. I'm approaching it from a.

[01:09:34] You know, read and do all that.

[01:09:37] But that isn't what anxiety is about.

[01:09:42] So as I think about it, I would say to speak with others who have traveled, who have shared your fears,

[01:09:53] and let them perhaps share experiences with you. That could help.

[01:10:02] Michelle: That's great advice.

[01:10:04] June: Michelle, where in the heck do you come up with all these fantastic questions?

[01:10:09] Michelle: You know, I just look at your bio and then I go, wow, I wonder how she did this. I wonder why she did this.

[01:10:17] June: Wow.

[01:10:19] Michelle: Yeah. And your bio is quite full.

[01:10:23] June: Yeah. Again, I'm old. That's one of the few benefits of being old. You have lots of experience.

[01:10:32] Michelle: Exactly.

[01:10:33] Well, I have just really enjoyed our talk, June, and I know others will as well.

[01:10:38] So I just hope you have a great rest of your day. Whatever is on your plate,

[01:10:43] go and do it.

[01:10:45] June: Thank you a million.

[01:10:47] And as I said,

[01:10:48] it's been pure pleasure.

[01:10:51] An hour and almost 15 minutes of it. So thank you. And I look to forward to one day meeting you in person.

[01:11:03] Michelle: Okay. Love it.

[01:11:05] June: Covering the line.

[01:11:06] Michelle: There you go. Thank you, June. Have a great day.

[01:11:10] June: Thank you, Michelle. Ciao, ciao.