Game Changers Podcast with Quinn St. Juste
Game Changers Podcast with Quinn St. Juste
Empowering Young Leaders: Insights from Law Student Rahym Augustin-Joseph || Game Changers EP. 53
What would you do if your dreams seemed out of reach due to financial barriers? Join us for an inspiring conversation with Rahym Augustin-Joseph, whose journey from St. Lucia to higher education in political science and law is a testament to resilience and adaptability. Initially aspiring to become a lawyer, Rahym had to navigate significant financial challenges that redirected his ambitions towards political science. Through his love for cricket, social commentary, and enriching educational experiences at St. Mary's College and the University of the West Indies, Ryan's story reminds us that every individual path holds immense value and potential.
Leadership isn't just about holding a title; it's about nurturing future generations with integrity, knowledge, and genuine support. In this episode, we dissect the core qualities that define effective leadership and stress the critical need for mentorship and succession planning. Rahym shares his insights into the unique hurdles young Caribbean leaders face, from limited opportunities to the fear of victimization. We delve into the necessity of creating an inclusive environment where young leaders can genuinely contribute, ensuring that their voices are integral to decision-making processes.
Youth empowerment isn't just a buzzword; it's a cornerstone for sustainable development. Tune in as we discuss the importance of actively involving young people in leadership roles across the Caribbean. From statutory bodies to NGOs, genuine inclusion means more than tokenistic gestures; it requires a true commitment to nurturing young talent. Rahym also provides a nuanced analysis of how U.S. political decisions impact small island nations, touching on everything from climate change to immigration. This episode is a call to action for recognizing and investing in the potential of young leaders to shape a brighter future. Don't miss out on this compelling dialogue that underscores the significance of empowering youth voices in global and local contexts.
you're right. How are you doing, man?
Speaker 2:hi there, man. I'm happy to happy to be here on this podcast. I know this is a long time in the trade. I'm finally happy to essentially be here right now.
Speaker 1:I'm so happy to have you on and I'm so interested in speaking to you on what I believe is a very interesting topic. But before we go into that, just tell the people some general things about yourself.
Speaker 2:That's probably the hardest question that I get. All the time the question ranges from what do you see? What don't you? But, put very simply, my name is Ryan Modestin Josephuffin joseph um, from st lucia, I guess, or more particularly from bexar um, and I've attended the, the st mary's college. Prior to that, I sent the odd circumvang school and currently studying, and also I've studied prior at the university of the west indies cable campus, where I pursued political science and law and now completing a law program. So, beyond all of the, I guess, the educational things that I've told you about myself, which really at times aren't really who you are, but I'm a young man who loves cricket and who loves to have a good time when I'm not doing other things like social commentary or schoolwork. So that's really, I guess, me in a very nutshell. I hope I didn't disappoint you as all listeners, with that short introduction.
Speaker 1:No, no, no, We'll get into some more specifics as we go on man throughout the discussion. Now you mentioned political science. I'm curious why political science?
Speaker 2:I'm curious why political science? Yeah, that that's actually a good place to start and and I'll tell you this, and I haven't actually I guess you have the benefit rather let's put it that way of hearing it first as part of the public forum. I'm not quite sure that I've given that full story, but in a very summary way, I wanted to pursue law. Very early on, I think from very, very young, I understood clearly what I wanted to do and that was to be a lawyer. I understood very early that I wanted to nurture let's call it the art of argumentation, and I think the best place would be to be a lawyer. But somewhere along that journey, after the South Aloysia Community College, where I also got the law awards and served as a valedictorian, I understood right there and then that it was going to be a financial burden to pursue law. There are no bones about it. It's a very expensive, expensive career and therefore at the time my family didn't have the financial wherewithal to be able to just pull out right and say here you go, pursue, pursue that dream, and without saying all of it or without giving the day-to-day and ball-by-ball commentary, I understood right there and then that I still wanted to be able to pursue a university education. But just that. The amount of time that I would have possibly spent staying at home saving up and accruing as much as I can financially to be able to get that money to be able to pursue law may not have come as quickly as required. So I got a job. I saved for a year plus. So I got a job I saved for a year plus Also understood that there weren't financial opportunities to study law by virtue of lack of scholarships for that distinct area.
Speaker 2:The, obviously, ideas of a mortgage was out of the door. Ideas of financial contributions from some godfather overseas or some angel investor wasn't coming to to save me. So I saved, and after that, of course, the rest is history. And so far as obviously I didn't save enough money, I couldn't right, it wasn't possible. But I applied for a scholarship the sarfa lewis community I'm sarfa lewis, sorry oacs award for um oacs nationals. The staff louis award sorry for oasis nationals whereby it covered anything but law, but it allowed you to be able to pursue a double major with anything and law a very, very strange. So essentially, I said all right.
Speaker 2:the next best thing that I'm interested in and intrigued by is political science, and and by virtue of that I said, I'm going to pursue political science with law a double major at best and therefore I would see what happens after that. The truth is, I think that may have been the best decision that I made, because I've fallen in love with the theory and the practice of political science ever since, and of course I guess we can talk about that. Yeah for sure, and of course I guess we can talk about that?
Speaker 1:Yeah, for sure, and I always find out. It's interesting where your original path typically is not the best path for you. The path that you end up taking ends up being the best path for you because it really shapes you into the person that you should have become, instead of the person that you just wanted to become.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'll tell you something, my brother, what I've realized, and I think that has become a part of my own understanding in life, is really that everyone's journey is theirs, right, tut mun nusimeyo. Everyone has their own journey as part of this life and I understood that very clearly when I wasn't able to get the financial wherefore that I needed. I didn't allow that in that time to limit me. I didn't allow the socio-economic circumstance to stop that dream. But I understood then, as I still understand now, that there may be roadblocks along the way, there may be certain things that bumps along the road that don't allow you to realize the potential of that dream immediately.
Speaker 2:But it doesn't mean that the dream changes. It means that the method of achieving the dream had to change, and sometimes I used to sit back I'll tell you and reflect and see all of my other friends and all of my other colleagues gathering the opportunity to pursue their dream immediately, and that, I could tell you, among others, was a very daunting experience. You immediately, and that I could tell you, among others, was a very daunting experience, but for me, what it did is that I always found a way to reinforce into myself that your time will come right and that your moment will come. And therefore, when that moment comes, just be as ready and as prepared to be able to capitalize it. I think a lot of my cricket training as well taught me that my coach always used to sort of hammer down the point.
Speaker 2:I don't know that I listen but you always said that once you move off that bench and into the game, be ready, but train as if you're always playing, or train as if your moment is next, because when your time comes, of course you will. You will have to, you have to be able to capitalize for sure.
Speaker 1:now, part of the main reason that I brought you on this podcast is to talk about the topic of leadership. When I think of youth leaders in the Caribbean because I speak to many people your name comes up often in my mind Just as a leader, somebody who utilizes their skill sets to lead out. So I just want us to tackle leadership in general First of all. The first question in that regard I would ask is how do you view the role of mature or veteran leadership in guiding and mentoring the next generation of leaders in the Caribbean in particular?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'll tell you this Mature leadership, in my mind, is so important because I always make the point that statecraft is not child's play right. Being able to lead organizations, being able to lead countries, is not a very easy task and therefore there is a certain basket of skill set whether it be academic knowledge plus practical experience, plus all of the other virtues of honesty and integrity and love for people which must coalesce and marry together to be able to create that ideal leader. And that has to take certain decades of training and understanding and trials and errors and failures. And as a result of that, I think individuals who have been able to coalesce all of these qualities and embody them are always best placed to be able to lead our own respective organizations and countries. Now, that has to impact on the next generation and therefore I think what you're really getting at, as I understand it, is what role do these individuals play in being able to impact future generations? And that's a very important role, because it means that they must put themselves in a position to ensure proper succession.
Speaker 2:I think the Caribbean, for a very long time, have not had that level of leadership that isn't just focused on being there for the sake of being there, or isn't just focused on tomorrow, but focused on really how do I tune out or develop a set of students, so to speak, that when it is time, that I am ready to admit that they can take over that sense of leadership, or they can take over organizations and take over countries and be able to run smoothly, of course with their own turns and changes and ideological spins.
Speaker 2:So I think, for me, mature leadership is leadership that understands that it is temporary but at the same time understands that they must be able to inspire another set of generation of leaders to be able to take their place. And it has to be a firm understanding of wanting your students, so to speak, to be able to achieve more than you have and being able to be humble and being able to be inspiring, to be able to be accommodating, to be able to be consensual, so that you encourage and you create that atmosphere whereby it's not really a dog, a dog or or can run out. You know the idea of dogs and eating of dogs for good reason in the recent political, for good reason, but you get the analogy.
Speaker 2:So that, for me, is at the center of of the idea of mature, mature leadership understanding that, listen, young people are not there to to take over as people want them to, to believe in the sense of wanting to just take away everything and wrong people are are there to be mentored.
Speaker 2:They understand the importance of mentorship, but they must also be provided that space for that mentorship and to be mentored. They understand the importance of mentorship, but they must also be provided that space for that mentorship and to be able to critically assess what's going on and make their own contributions. That, for me, I think, is the is the importance of mature leadership, um, and also leadership that understands the role of teaching, right, not the hoarding of information that we see sometimes in our society, but that type of mentorship, that type of sitting down a young person and letting them and getting them to understand the processes and the systems of government and how things have worked and why these things may not have worked, allowing them to understand the historicity and the context in which things have happened and how they can utilize some of these skills and utilize some of our failures and our, our misgivings to be able to have a much better and more prosperous future.
Speaker 1:So we see the importance of mentorship, you know, passing on that mantle, passing on that information, so that these upcoming leaders can, like you said, understand the context and the importance of the entire concept of what they're trying to achieve, because sometimes I think young people don't understand the full scope of what something is until they actually get into the position. And that's why I see mentorship as important, because it gives you a taste of the work before you actually get in the job.
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah, for sure yeah, it does, it does it all right.
Speaker 1:Young people face. Young leaders in particular face significant challenges in the caribbean today. What do you believe is the most significant of these challenges?
Speaker 2:How long do you have? You've asked me a very good question, of course, as part of the itemizing, but I think some of the most significant challenges is really the lack of opportunity, one to be to express, um, their own leadership stats and their own leadership qualities, um, the. The second thing being the idea. We speak a lot about the idea of victimization, uh, the idea, idea of nepotism as well, but even if these two things are so, are so different than this thing. But victimization and also that sense of fear. Right that there are sometimes young people who have been mentored and have been trained by other individuals within the society, but they also hold their own distinct views, they also hold their own understanding of things, but there's a very there's a sense of fear in expressing it, because to express it may just cause some alienation and may cause that sense of loss of mentorship, that cause that sense of loss of autonomy as part of the society and also some of the other opportunities that come with it.
Speaker 2:So so there's that sense of fear and victimization twin, whereby young people are afraid at times to be able to speak out and air their own views and perspectives, because there's a certain subsection of society that still believes that young people need to need to follow slavishly and need to follow um in all respects, and therefore, for me, I think that's that's the second challenge. Another challenge is being able to be provided with some of the opportunity and the space to be able to provide some of that expression right and being able to do it not, or being able to be provided if it is not in a tokenistic way, but in a way that's empowering. Not in a way that is meant to fill quotas, not in a way that is meant to take a box of saying I have a young person here and therefore I'm willing to hear their voice, but in a way that includes their voices and their views and their aspirations as a critical part of decision-making processes, as a very critical part of systems, and utilizing their energies and their skill sets as part of development. So I think these are some of the challenges, but if it is that we are going into, let's say, things like electoral politics, let's use that subset. There are even more distinct challenges there.
Speaker 2:You have, within the region, young people around the ages of 20-something thereabouts, et cetera, just trying to sort of parachute their lives right.
Speaker 2:They're trying to get that educational experience, they're trying to get that work environment and therefore the political system has not been able to find a very good way of allowing young people to be able to enter the political free while still balancing out some of these own life development issues.
Speaker 2:It means, therefore, that young people may be more preoccupied with some of these educational experiences and some of these getting off or starting off life as opposed to a political career. When you get down to issues of things like campaign finance and these things, that young people are not seen as individuals that are very attractive for campaigns and of course you have the one-off hair then everywhere but in the main these individuals are not seen as frontline individuals that you want to be able to include. The political system also, at times, quinn, I'll tell you this essentially has this very ageist view that, in their mind, young people are not as qualified enough to be able to participate in electoral politics, in entrepreneurship and these things. You see it as well. You get the application form and you see the slot for many years of experience.
Speaker 1:But let's be real.
Speaker 2:Where are they going to get it from? Where exactly does the amalgamation or the accumulation of experience work experience comes into factor to get into the job, particularly if it is that they're young and they're trying to start off. So these are some of the challenges that young people or young leaders face in being able to ensure mainstream right that their voices are taken seriously, and it's a lot of lot of things that we have to be able to do to overcome them we have some serious challenges.
Speaker 1:So then let's go to the flip side, though. What qualities do you believe that young people should employ so that they can be successful in spite of the challenges?
Speaker 2:yeah, I think it's a range of things right, um. I think the basics obviously has to be young people have to be able to understand very clearly that this is a very these are difficult tasks, right. That leadership, that state craft, that development, all of these things are complex and, at the end of the day, if it is that you are interested, you have to be very certain that you love people. You have to be very certain that you understand all of the virtues of honesty and integrity, um, and optimism and these things that are required for for a possible successful career. I mean, I haven't arrived there, so I I don't know that I could give you the hands-on, practical examples that you require, but at least that's a starting point in my mind.
Speaker 2:The other thing as well, quinn, is being able to create a network right, being able to ensure that you can find other young people who are sharing ideas and sharing thoughts and sharing experiences and already working very actively in the development space. Working very actively in the development space, um, because that's all that we're doing, working in the development space um to be able to ensure that they can share these ideas and coalesce um some of these thoughts and experiences um to be able to improve the quality of the lives of others. I think, once we can sort of band together as young people in a unit, understanding that everybody need not have the same view but that there is the room for that diversity and inclusion of voices, so that young people can be a part of the decision-making process. I think also, young people need to also be more focused on putting themselves out there without some of the reservations or understanding beyond the misgivings of the society. I understand the challenges, I understand the some of the reservations or understanding beyond the misgivings of the society. I understand the challenges, I understand the idea of the victimization, the nepotism and the pushback that they may possibly face by believing in their cause. But the truth is, quinn, what other option do we have, what other option do young people have other than speaking their truth and believing it? Better and at the stage in our lives whereby we can have these very bold dreams of what the society should look like? And therefore, I think we need to be able to find the right nuts and bolts to be fearless, the right nuts and bolts to be able to articulate our views, our right nuts and bolts to find out what space in the development ecosystem am I best placed?
Speaker 2:Am I an advocate? Am I a writer? Am I a public speaker? Am I a worker? Am I a community activist? Am I a youth development practitioner? Am I an entrepreneur who can lend myself? Am I an aspiring employer who will take a chance on a young person who's been, who's been in conflict with the law but attempting to rehabilitate themselves?
Speaker 2:Every young person must understand their own part and parcel or their place within development ecosystem and be able to be fearless in what they believe in, because that's what matters being fearless in what they believe in, whether it it be reproductive rights, whether it be the need for education, whether it be a fight for cleaner energy and the reduction of the effects of climate change. I think these strategies and these things come after, but it's understanding and believing that, or pushing the fight to what you truly believe in. I think also good mentorship is important. I think getting individuals who are not interested in taking credit saying that, hey, I contributed to this young person's success or I was their handler to use a very bad term that I think I've watched too many movies about crime detection and CIA to talk about handlers.
Speaker 2:But getting mentors that understand that you are figuring things out and that you want that experience, um, and these type of things. So I think these are just some of the thoughts.
Speaker 1:At least I think young people can, can, can be able to contribute to it you actually tackled a couple of questions that I was about to come to with your answer, so in fact, I can actually skip past them and move into my favorite segment of a Game Changers interview. It's called the Quick Hitters. So these are rapid fire questions, right, questions that tell more about Rahim the man, than the subject that we're tackling. So let's go first. Rapid fire question what is your favorite music to listen to?
Speaker 2:soca, soca, okay, soca any day. Um, yeah, kes, and any any other soca artists as well. It just gives me this, this bubbly energy vibe.
Speaker 1:Um so beautiful. The second question might be a bit harder who is your hero?
Speaker 2:oh, that, yeah, that's actually a harder question. Um, so many, you could name some, but I think I'll start with my grandmother. I think watching how ordinary people for use of a better term make ends meet but at the same time, prioritize things like education and empowerment of people and helping people along the way and being kind and being nice, and essentially prioritizing some of the virtues of life and essentially prioritizing some of the virtues of life, these individuals like her show me, or explicate in my mind, who these are the real heroes in our society. The individuals that, at the end of the day, may not have the most money and may not have the most money, not because they can't have it, but that anything that they have is always invested into somebody else or is invested in into the future of someone else. So I think these are the individuals who are really the heroes in this society. So that's more on the solemn note. The other individuals, of course, that I have that I have looked up to Barack Obama for achieving for achieving defeat, obviously, of the first black president of the United States, but also beyond that his, his oratory skills, his thinking, his deep conviction, his own ideological leanings. Um is really heroic heroic to watch, um and and as of, as of late, julian Alford.
Speaker 2:Um, if I've, if I'm being honest because of the story behind it, and I do think, and of course, quinn, you'll forgive me if I use the podcast to really just reflect for a few seconds on what that story means that you have an individual as is a lot of the Caribbean extraordinary stories, who did not allow socioeconomic circumstances to stop a dream one and to be able to stop them, to be the best in the world, to cause them to understand, all right, or to cause the world to understand that St Lucia in the Caribbean is not just some backwater place, as they used to describe us a very long time ago, that couldn't create or build monuments of success all right but that they could create individuals who come from literally nothing, but who just have shared determination and hard work and talent and rise to the most prominent places in the world, um, by just their own shared talent and hard work.
Speaker 2:We've done it with with sarah phillips, we've done it with Derek Walker and I think, as we've said, there is something in the water, the solution water that creates excellence out of ordinary people just attempting to get by, and ordinary people with extraordinary talent, extraordinary belief, but not allowing the socioeconomic circumstances to limit their potential, and that is the solution story.
Speaker 1:Beautiful, beautiful, beautiful. Now I know that was supposed to be a rapid-fire question, but I turned it into an elongated no.
Speaker 2:no, don't apologize.
Speaker 1:Don't apologize, it was great. I actually really enjoyed how you broke that down. Alright, final rapid-fire question who would you like to see on game changers?
Speaker 2:oh, yeah, um, I I think juno alfred would be a good place to start. Um, quinn, yeah, I think I think that would increase, increase the network, increase the viewership. As a matter of fact, listen, you will get so many other individuals right after that you might have to quit your daytime job to do this full time. But I think Julian Alfred for sure, because I think there is a story to tell. I don't think the full world has grasped, I don't think the full of Salucia has grasped the magnitude of the success.
Speaker 2:I do think, and I could still, even weeks after SIT, and just remember watching this race, particularly as well in the circumstances, quinn, of the entire world at least not San Lucia, but the entire global north understanding, yes, that there is a junior athlete in the ring, but looking at Sha'Carri Richardson and saying, listen, this is the individual to watch and there's no doubt about it, she's an extraordinary athlete. But even in the messaging, sometimes I felt as if that we were being shortchanged. And that's at times, what the society and the world does Shortchange small, island, developing states, because there is just this natural inclination to be able to look at what's big and what's at this price in their mind. And you obviously have to be extraordinary, so I think that would be a good individual um as well um, I think yes caru is someone as well, I think you, you, you could possibly have that.
Speaker 2:I would love to hear um how own thoughts on transforming, um, transform the agricultural sector in st lucia, as she has already done with, with her and daughters, um, and also so individuals like that, I think, will just add and add value to the portfolio.
Speaker 1:For sure, both of these young ladies are amazing individuals, both of them are dream guests, so I'll be willing to have them one for sure. For sure That'll be beautiful. All right, so we're moving on to the back end of the interview. You kind of touched on it a little bit earlier on, but how can we better encourage and support youth participation in leadership roles across the Caribbean? Young people, well people in general seem to run away from leadership. You know, you go in a group, just simple school group work, and they don't want to lead out. They want success, but they don't want to lead out. How can we encourage leadership?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So the thing is, I think people understand, obviously, the burden that comes with it. Some individuals want the bounty of leadership, but obviously there is the burden and the lonely road that comes with some. Some individuals want the bounty of the of leadership, but obviously there are there is the burden and the lonely road that comes with it. I think from for me, it's a range of a suite of things. Rather, young people wanted to be able to be given the, the space and the opportunity to lead. I think that is a starting point.
Speaker 2:A very long time ago, I heard I heard a lot of talk about creating avenues, whether it be on statutory bodies or creating avenues among government departments, creating avenues as part of the contracts that are given out for young people, creating avenues in our NGOs and our civil societies for young people to lead and give them the opportunity and the space to lead. I think that is important Because what it would do is allow young people to be able to co-create the future in their own likeness and image, not just by virtue of the fact that they're going to inherit the future because the truth is they are.
Speaker 2:And if it is that you want them to be able to inherit the future and shape it in their likeness and image, they must be able to be able to inherit the future and shape it in their likeness and image. They must be able to be given the opportunity from birth to be deliberately included in decision-making processes in society. And therefore society cannot be prosperous if it is they have not opened up deliberately the opportunities for young people to contribute effectively to the decision-making process deliberately, the opportunities for young people to contribute effectively to the decision-making process.
Speaker 2:So that is one thing, but even in including them is not enough, because there's a lot of tokenistic ideas that go around the inclusion of young people and, believe you me, in a few days I have a piece coming out on how the political parties, in my view, have already treated young people, so to speak, but really how the political parties can be an empowering tool for young people.
Speaker 2:I know that sounds contradictory, but really focusing and zoning in on it's not enough to, for example, put a young person on the platform. It's not enough to be able to put a young person on a board of governors of some school. It's not enough to be able to give a young person the finances to start a business. Good, all well and good. These things are forward thinking and important. But we must take it a step further and we must ensure that when these young people are there, that the ideas are listened, the ideas are taken into consideration, that they're given the space to implement these ideas and, in circumstances where they don't have that skill set and the capacity, that we provide them with the employment and the training and the educational opportunities to be able to make these contributions.
Speaker 2:So for me, that is one thing. The other thing as well is also the financial wherewithal right. The other thing as well is also the financial wherewithal right. Giving young people financial resources is not handouts. It is an investment in the future. It is an investment into the future capital of the country. It's an investment to the future of St Lucia.
Speaker 2:Yes, of course I think there needs to be the accommodating environment, the enabling environment of accountability and integrity of these monies or financial and technical resources, but there needs to be that level in tandem with giving young people these resources. So I think these are some of the ways in which we can create these spaces to ensure that we imbue leadership in young people over time. But even more than that, whether it be in formal and informal education, quinn, we need to be able to, from very early, teach young people the very important skill sets and virtues that are associated with leadership. We need to be able to expose young people to very great leaders within our society and within the world. Young people need to have very good role models within the society, like that, espouses and virtues and certain beliefs right. It is not enough for young people to to grow up and just be leaders, whatever that's supposed to mean. But we must imbue with them the certain educational qualifications. We must imbue with them the certain curriculum. We must imbue with them the certain views and skill sets of leaders. We must nurture that type of leadership.
Speaker 2:So it's as easy as not stamping down and I say this a lot when I do graduation addresses that some young people will ask you why. Children will ask you why this and why that and why. I think that's really the most common thing that they ask. What's important is that nurturing that sense of curiosity, right, nurturing that sense of innovation within their minds, that you allow them to be able to express themselves. But also, as well, we allow young people to be engaged in a range of things. And if we see leadership potential, we understand it, we tap into it. Because too many times, I think we at times are afraid in our society of the potential of young people. Right, we are, and we don't want to be able to identify and spot talent. We're not able to be able to hold that talent and deliberately place young people in leadership positions. And if they fail, so what? Yeah, so what? And if they fail?
Speaker 1:so what?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so what? We must have the confidence that we can make these decisions, bounce back from it and, essentially teach them, because you're going to learn experientially For sure, I love that a lot.
Speaker 1:Moving on to the last two questions Might be my hottest two questions for you, one before the last.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:Anybody who looks or hears you might assume a certain career path, possibly for you. So I'm just going to ask the question right away does Ryan Augustine Joseph have a future in politics?
Speaker 2:I know whatever my answer is, I would have to come back to this interview yes, yes, at some point in time yes, to be, to be fact-checked, yes, but the truth is, quinn, a lot of people have said it. Um, you can imagine, as part of my entire life, I've read it. There's people attempt to get certain qualities and certain things from you, and then they attempt to determine your own life trajectory. Yep for you, but the answer that I've given, that I will continue to give, is and I I guess maybe that is a political answer.
Speaker 2:I guess you that I think politics is the greatest art of service in in one's country. Sometimes I think what we see as politics, or politicking throughout this society and the world, has caused individuals to not believe in politics. That's unfortunate, because at times, when they look at the society and they look at what passes for politics, they don't see it as an art of service.
Speaker 2:I still have that optimism of the will, even if I have that time to pessimism of the intellect. But for me the short answer to that is that is a decision of of people, right, and if it is that people are so inclined to give me that blessing and to give me that honor of of serving them in any way that I can, I I will be more obliged and I will be most humbled by that opportunity. But that is a decision for people.
Speaker 1:Okay, fair answer, a political answer, but it's fair.
Speaker 1:I won't beat you up on it at all. Final question this is an important question, I believe, um, so I think you have a unique perspective in that, and you correct me if I'm wrong. You have dual citizenship, right, yeah, correct. So with citizenship you're a us citizen and a St Lucian citizen. Now we know that anything that happens in the United States affects us as small island developing nations. We often say that you know, when America sneezes, the Caribbean catches the cold. Yeah, right, so there's an ongoing race, right, a presidential race. This is an election year. Two candidates Donald Trump, kamala Harris. What do you think the impact of the outcome will have on St Lucia and the Caribbean in general? What impact?
Speaker 1:do you think it will have, regardless of who wins.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it will have a tremendous impact and let's go through the line, all right.
Speaker 2:So I think, at least, even beyond, at least going through the individual candidates, america is a very important power in world politics and geopolitical activity, right, and power in world politics and geopolitical activity, right, um. And therefore, at times I think that them, just like the other countries in the global north, may not be contributing as quickly as we want as part of the multilateral system and as making as bold contributions as we like as part of the multilateral system and therefore, irrespective of who wins, there is a much broader and deeper question about the extent to which that america is going to increase, um, their contributions, whether it be under um under climate change, under loss and damage, um, whether it be under the arrangements of the WTO and ensuring that we finally have judges appointed to the appellate jurisdiction to be able to rule on trade irregularities, whether it is being able to refashion rules as part of the IMF and the World Bank by virtue of their share capital as part of it and their voting rights, etc.
Speaker 2:All of these things are things that affect small and developing states and that, for a very long time, in small and developing states, we think that sometimes the global north doesn't hear us and don't see us and to that extent, there is a certain peculiarity and vulnerability that is just inherent as part of small and developing states that I think, at times, are not included in the thinking of the global north and therefore, I think, irrespective of who wins, there is a real question within our society about what is the impact on the multilateral system right, what is the impact that these presidents are going to have on how they view the Caribbean?
Speaker 2:On one end, I can say that I'm very disappointed, at least in the rhetoric of Donald Trump as part of the Haitian migration, and for me, it reeks of a much deeper philosophical question about how the Caribbean and how the world or the global north have treated Haiti. And how the world or the global north have treated Haiti just by sheer virtue of their boldness to be able to be the first free black society and the first free slavely-ridden society within the Western Hemisphere, and by virtue of that we know of the issues of the French reparation payments. But there is that lack of sensitivity to understanding the Haitian problem and the Haitian problematic by virtue also of the destabilizing that some of the Western countries have done racist type slurs that makes it seem as if Haitians are only a particular thing, forgetting that there are individuals within the society that have made monumental contributions to the world.
Speaker 2:So I'm worried about the world. I'm worried about how the world is viewed. I'm worried about how immigrants are viewed, I wonder. I'm worried about how individuals from the Caribbean who are attempting to live a better life and be part of the land of the free, as has been said, what are the opportunities that are going to be present for them, particularly in light of the great diaspora that is part of the American civilization? So, irrespective of whoever wins, there are some of these questions that are on the table.
Speaker 2:The other thing is that, on the individual ideological positions, queen, I have you know that once America starts to raise some very pertinent issues, whether it be on women's reproductive rights, whether it was in the past about marijuana, whether it was in the past about climate change, whether it's the past about education and what we teach our children, these things have a way of infiltrating, as you put best about the sneeze and the cough and the cold.
Speaker 2:These things have a way of infiltrating within the Caribbean society and therefore, some of these things are put not necessarily on the ballot, not necessarily on the Caribbean ballot, but as part of the Caribbean society and therefore some of these things are put not necessarily on the ballot, not necessarily on the Caribbean ballot, but as part of the Caribbean psyche and therefore, based on who wins, you will see a certain ideological understanding and a framing of issues that I'm particularly interested in. I could put my cards out on the table. The truth is, I'm rooting to see whether America will have the first woman president ever, which is Kamala Harris, who also has Caribbean heritage and, more particularly, jamaican heritage, and therefore that's the individual that I'm sitting and watching very keenly and believing very keenly in as part of this race, but she too, obviously has always part of these ideological convictions that we need to be able to wrestle with and the caribbean needs to be able to deal with for sure, bro, I want to thank you for our amazing interview.
Speaker 1:I really enjoyed the conversation. I really enjoyed your thoughts. You know, among Caribbean speakers, among people that I actually know, you are one of my favorite. I'm not just saying this because you're on my podcast. In fact, the reason that you're on my podcast is because you're one of my favorite right.
Speaker 1:I am proud of your development. I always look for people that I consider peers to inspire me, because I know that in certain ways, you might be ahead of me, but you're not too far ahead so I can still reach out, and if you're there, I can get there as well. So I'm very proud of you. I want to encourage you to continue being the wonderful individual that you are and continue leading, because we need more leaders right, and I believe that you are one of them. So thank you so much. Thank you so much.
Speaker 2:My brother, I just also want to congratulate you on the work that you've also been doing and I follow it intently. Your journalism workingcia is outstanding. We need a lot more young people entering the fourth estate and being able to speak truth to power. I think that is very, very critical. If it is, our society is going to improve and our society is going to get to the work that you do and the others and my brother, kareem, as part of communication and media, and all the other individuals who are part of that space who are willing to put themselves out there and champion their own causes and bring information to people and allow people to shape their minds and their convictions. So I look forward to being here again, for sure. Of course, the political season is starting up, so I know that we will have another opportunity to speak more intently about some of the developments there.
Speaker 2:But thank you very much for having me and I will definitely be back if given the opportunity again.
Speaker 1:For sure, I look forward to it. All right, my brother.
Speaker 2:All right, all right all right, guys.
Speaker 1:This has been yet another episode of the game changers podcast and to thank you for coming on, thank you for coming and listening to what was an amazing conversation. Remember to like and subscribe, and game changers is available wherever you get your podcast. Remember to download the episode to listen on the go, to be inspired. Anyhow, as usual, stay hungry and I'll see you next time. Bye-bye, bye.