Game Changers Podcast with Quinn St. Juste
Game Changers Podcast with Quinn St. Juste
The Artist Behind St. Lucia's Cultural Renaissance: A Conversation with Naja Simeon
What happens when art chooses you? On this special birthday episode of Game Changers, we're joined by Naja Simeon, the visionary artist behind St. Lucia's most striking murals, including the towering tribute to Olympic champion Julian Alfred that depicts her "walking on water."
Naja shares his fascinating journey from reluctant teacher at age 17 to celebrated muralist, explaining how he approaches each birthday as a meditation on mortality and creative purpose. "Every year is a wake-up call of how close I am to death," he reflects, describing the self-portraits he creates annually as time capsules documenting his evolution both as an artist and as a human being.
The conversation takes us inside his creative process, from the painstaking research behind each mural to the deliberate incorporation of ancestral petroglyphs as cultural touchstones. Particularly fascinating is his technique of leaving certain elements uncolored – blank spaces that draw the viewer's eye and spark conversation. "My main role as an artist is to make people think," he explains, revealing how he transformed the traditional beer label for Piton into a three-part collectible artwork that tells a complete story only when all pieces are assembled.
Naja delivers a powerful message to aspiring creators, rejecting the "starving artist" trope in favor of what he calls being a "hungry artist" – someone who attacks opportunities with vigor and leaves no money on the table. His advice resonates far beyond the art world: put in your 10,000 hours, be exceptional at your craft, and create with purpose. "Be so good at what you do that everybody will notice you," he urges, demonstrating how passion and practice have allowed him to transform the visual landscape of his island home.
Subscribe now to hear more conversations with game-changing individuals who are reshaping our world through vision, persistence, and unwavering commitment to their craft.
Free audio. Post-production by Alphoniccom. Hello everybody, welcome to yet another episode of the Game Changers podcast. My name is Quinn Sejis and it's a privilege and pleasure to be here with you. As usual, my next guest is a young man who is well known throughout St Lucia for one thing in particular his murals. One thing in particular his murals. His name is Najah Simeon and you might not know him very well, but I'm sure that you know a little bit about his work. Anyhow, here is the man behind the murals. Yo, najah, how you doing man, doing good, doing good. Great to hear, man. First of all, I want to thank you for coming on and also, I know today is a special day for you, extra special day for you. So happy birthday to you, man. Thank you.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much. It is indeed special, yeah.
Speaker 1:For sure, for sure.
Speaker 2:I like to say it's like a wake up call, you know, In many ways, Of how close I am to death every year, Wow. So it's like how close I am to death every year, Wow so. So it's like you know I need to do something this year and the next year. You know I'm getting one year closer to death because that's the only thing guaranteed. So it's like if you didn't achieve it last year, get on it.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, and you're it. You know it really makes each year valuable. It gives it extra value.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it gives it meaning For sure, deep jumps to ourselves, you know.
Speaker 1:For sure. All right, bro, so many St Lucians would know you, would know of your work, but let's assume that nobody listening to this podcast knows you, knows your name, knows anything about you? Who is naja from your own perspective?
Speaker 2:from my perspective.
Speaker 2:I'm still trying to find out, man, I'm still trying to find out so naja is a work in progress, even today, and I was just telling you off camera that every year on my birthday I do a portrait. So I do a birthday portrait, a self-portrait, normally with me looking into a mirror or a picture I took on that same day, and it's just for me to reflect on who Nadja is, what Nadja is becoming, just for me to see. Has my painting style changed? Do I have hair now? What's happening to Nadja? So it's like I'm recording myself. I'm doing a time capsule every year, but in portrait form, and while I'm doing this, it's like a three-hour, sometimes four-hour meditation session where I'm just focusing on me on my birthday, just reflecting on what did I do this year, what do I plan to do next year? How am I feeling today?
Speaker 1:So nausea is a work in progress.
Speaker 2:I don't know who he is.
Speaker 1:Right, let's hope that you know, sometime down the future you'll find out.
Speaker 2:Well, that's the plan. You know, sometime, sometime down the future, you'll find out. Well, that's the plan. You know, Life is happening, so nature is changing, evolving, you know Right, Nature is just continuing to be.
Speaker 1:Beautiful. I actually like that answer a lot, you know, because sometimes people tell you who they were or who they have been, but you are a work in progress. You know there's a quote that says we are not human beings, but we are human becomeings.
Speaker 2:You know, ever growing there you go there, you go piece of philosophy there, that's right for sure.
Speaker 1:All right, bro. So how did you get into visual arts to begin with?
Speaker 2:oh man, um, I don't know if I got into it. I think um at chooses you.
Speaker 2:You don't choose that okay I remember growing up as a kid and my mother is gonna swear that this is not true. I remember growing up as a kid and my mother is going to swear that this is not true. I remember growing up as a kid and then they always tell me let's go be like. What are you looking at, what are you staring at? Like let's go, like, I would just stop.
Speaker 2:Like you know what daydream, like a daydreamer, like you're always staying into the distance looking at something. I remember I'm looking at a tree, or the leaves on the tree, or cow or sheep or just an object. But in my brain I'm studying it. And later on somebody asks you okay, draw that for me. And then you draw it and they're like but how do you know how to draw that? Wow, you're talented, you're an artist. But I remember I know how to draw this because I observed it somewhere. I looked at it in so much detail in my mind, so now I can do it. And they were like wow, that's amazing. So I don't know. I've always been a daydreamer, always been observing stuff, and I think that's why I'm an artist.
Speaker 1:Beautiful. So would you say that an artist is just an observer who takes their observations and puts it into? I guess, a piece.
Speaker 2:Don't quote me on that. Man don't quote me. I just say, oh my god. What an artist is is still being heavily debated. What should an artist do is heavily debated. What is art is heavily debated. But in my case, how I started doing art was representing my surrounding and for a long time that was art. How well can you draw something? How well can you paint something? How realistic does that thing look when you do it? But now art is about making a statement. Art is about making people think. Art is about making people think. Art is about being controversial. You know, art is now like it's evolving. It's evolving. You have contemporary art, you have abstract art, you have the classical art. So, man, art is always evolving, just like nature. So I'm evolving.
Speaker 1:Beautiful. That is again a very good answer. I really like that one. All right, so you might not know when you got into art, but I'm sure you'll remember when you decided to take it seriously, because I mean you decided to pursue you know studies in visual arts and engineering technology.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:So tell me, when did that happen and what spurred that on?
Speaker 2:Boy, that's a story. That's a story that I need to tell you right. I've always been into art. As I said, art chooses you, you don't choose art. So I did art at secondary school. I was one of the best students there. I got the most outstanding award. The visual arts teacher back in the time was Mr Gittins, from Guyana. I have to give him some credit here because in my last years like in 4.5, he was really an inspiration because he was a trained artist, he studied art and he was teaching us some amazing stuff. So, big up, mr deetons and a lot of my colleagues at the time were doing really good stuff. So I was always into art. But when I went to university, I went there to study engineering technology, specifically architectural drafting and design, because I love to draw and I wanted to keep on drawing, not just doing engineering, because I don't like math too much.
Speaker 2:I'm one of those guys, I'd rather solve the problem indirectly than just giving you the straight answer. But while I was doing engineering, I took a little course like a elective and, um, you know, doing introduction to art or you know one of these things, I can't remember exactly. And after the course, the teacher was like we need to see you in our department. You need to. We have to see you come. Come to the department. I was like, oh, my need to see you in our department. We have to see you. Come to the art department. I was like, oh my gosh, I probably did something wrong. I'm in trouble. So he guys come there. And he said oh, mr Simeon, his name is Rodriguez Davis.
Speaker 2:You know one of my mentors right now we're still in very close contact and he said you did this course. You know, you did this better than the art student. You've done it as if you should be an art student, but you're not an art student. Why don't you consider at least taking a few art courses and doing a minor in visual arts while you're here? And that's how we started, because I tell you, art chooses you. I've always been an artist, but I went to school there was no art scholarships, I don't think so. We went to school to do engineering, you know, and then the art chose me. So I ended up doing a double major fine art and engineering, and the rest is history.
Speaker 1:Wow and you know I heard you say that twice in that story Somebody saw something in you that you didn't see in yourself. Two individuals you know your first art teacher you mentioned at school, at secondary school, and then the second one at university.
Speaker 2:I think that often is a very important thing, you know, sometimes we just simply do not recognize how important or how skilled we are, rather, and it takes somebody else to see something in us so that it can really breathe out of us well, I wouldn't say I didn't see it in myself, but at the moment that you're doing, you're doing what you're doing, but the other person sees the potential that you have in this area because they've already overzeal, they're the giants, right and they well, I'm probably at my age, I wasn't even doing this. I always knew, I loved that. I was always doing it, as I said, right. But when your art teacher is teaching, right, and everybody's playing around but this quiet kid in the corner stays back and he finishes the task and he does it really good, they encourage that person right, because that person is already putting in that little extra, you understand. So art is always there.
Speaker 2:It's not like I didn't know I was good. I know I was good, you know I was even trying to be a little bit um show off. When I do something, I do it extra good because I know I can do it. You understand. You know these kids in the choir. I know they can sing, but they're just singing along with everybody until you know they're like. You know what? Let me just hit that extra note and everybody's like whoa. These kids can sing, but they know they could do it the whole time. They were just you know, they were just in the hood until they stood out, so sometimes I would stay in the hood until I stand out.
Speaker 1:Makes sense, Makes sense, All right, bro. So whenever somebody says Najah in St Lucia, the first thing that comes at least to my mind is murals. Tell me what your creative process in the murals is like.
Speaker 2:Alright, the creative process. It begins with everything else I do. I start with a sketch, I bring some, I have my iPad full of Procreate and I start sketching. So if the mural is Julian Alcred, for example, I would try to get as many images of Julian Alcred. How does she look? What's her skin tone? What story am I trying to tell? What am I?
Speaker 2:My main role as an artist right now, especially during the murals, is to make people think. Main thing. Second thing is is to make it aesthetically pleasing, make it visually pleasing. The third right, the third thing is, is to make how would I say it? Make it good. I want it to look like that, I want it to be colorful, but I want you to tell a story. So that's the process.
Speaker 2:I get images, get the story, talk to people in the community, ask them, because people will be interacting with this thing for a long time. So I want it to be in there and I want them to keep interacting. If they keep asking questions like why did he use that color? What? Why did he paint her in in that position? Maybe sometimes it doesn't end up being like that, because when you do something, you don't know how people will think about it. Right, I've had people do critics of my work and they're asking you know, why did you do this and why did you do that? I'm like, well, that's a good question, but I will not answer it because I want you to. You know, keep asking the question. That's my main goal yeah, so that's the process.
Speaker 1:Got you. Now you mentioned that Julian Alfred mural. I want to ask you what that experience was like and how inspired were you by her and her story.
Speaker 2:Very, very inspirational, you know, for her to be doing what she's doing at such a young age, coming from where she came from. It's very inspiring for the whole of St Lucia. I think my son is in love with her. He's only three years old. He sees Julianne Affleck everywhere now and he also was part of the process of me painting the mural.
Speaker 2:But actually painting the mural was one of the most stressful things ever man. But then again, artists and myself I mean people like me we thrive on the stress. I had three weeks three weeks to paint a three-story building. Yeah, three weeks. And I had to make it happen because the unveiling, you know, was a set date. So we got delayed, right, and I had to get my team together, get out there, get the designer crew and just do it non-stop. Okay, and I think we did it in two weeks because there was a lot of rain. For some reason there there was a lot of just like a week of rain, but it was very stressful. I had to make it good because I knew everyone was gonna be watching.
Speaker 2:The people oh, my goodness, the people of Cicero, very serious people. They walk up to me and they say one thing I hope I'm, I hope I'm not, um, I being too bold there, but these ladies woke up to me and I know they were joking, but they were very serious and joking. They were like, one thing, if they're not looking like Julian Afel, we're shooting you. I'm like, oh shit, what if you shoot me? If you shoot me, you know you can't get the mural right. I'm not going to fix it. But they, I'm not going to fix it. But they were joking Because now, right now, when I see them, I see them all over the place now and they're like you know, they're very happy with the mural and they're very friendly people. But I was like, all right, these people are serious about their Julian Alfred. So I'm not even doing it for me, I'm not doing it for Julian Alfred, I'm doing it for all the people of St Lucia. They wanted it to look like her, they wanted it to be important, they wanted it larger than life.
Speaker 1:It was stressful being up there. I can only imagine. I can only imagine Right, but she seemed to love it. You know, I saw that she was taken aback by it, by just the, the size of it first of all, but just the moment itself right yeah and that was my idea to make it larger than life.
Speaker 2:so if you look at the portrait, she's literally like walking on water. So I actually have afraid her godly. You know, she's literally walking on water.
Speaker 2:She's running that fast, so that's what when, I look at it now, I see that you can see the pitons that represent St Lucia. We're a small island in the middle of the ocean, surrounded by water Caribbean Sea, atlantic Ocean and for that small island to be now on the world map not just one time, but many times. Many, many people have put us on the world map. I think the world is starting to take notice, so I have to make a, you know, larger than life.
Speaker 1:For sure, and you did an excellent job in doing just that.
Speaker 2:I have to thank my team, afani and everybody else who worked on that project. William, you know everybody who was on that project. I need to beat them up For sure. Who was on that project?
Speaker 1:and I need to beat them up For sure. Now I'm moving on to my favorite segment of a Game Changers podcast. It's called the Quick Eaters. So I have three rapid fire questions for you. Answer them as quickly as possible, All right. First one what is your favorite spot in st Lucia?
Speaker 2:the beach? The beach or the forest man? You're asking some serious question. I love the rainforest and the beach at the same time all right, no problem, I understand.
Speaker 1:Second quick inter question who is your hero?
Speaker 2:I don't have a hero man. I'm still searching. I have many mentors, many amazing people who have guided me along the way, but I don't have a hero. Got you.
Speaker 1:Final quick inter question who would you like to see?
Speaker 2:on this podcast. What I like to see on this podcast podcast has Dupes been on? The podcast I want to see Dupes on the podcast he has been here. Dupes, you have been here together with somebody no, but he has not been here by himself alright, we need to see Dupes on the podcast.
Speaker 2:Ok, dupes, dupes and I just one week as we started this outdoor gallery doing these murals, and you know, one of the places we started was down in Heathport, bringing life back to the place using people's paints. You know, just house paints from people's houses.
Speaker 1:So I need Doop Sa to tell a little part of that story alright, if I have him on, it will be a very, very long episode, because Dupes has collaborated with everybody under the sun Everybody man.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but we'll make that happen. We will make it happen, alright, so we're moving on to some of the back-end questions. I know that you utilize a lot of you know ancestral and cultural designs in your work. First of all, how do you incorporate those themes into your art and what message are you trying to convey in utilizing those themes in?
Speaker 2:all right. So, as I told you, my my artwork right now, at this point in my life, the main goal is to make people think, make people stop and, you know, have a moment. The artwork must, must see something to you, make you ask questions. So I wanted the murals because I've been a studio painter, I love doing portraits, landscapes, but all that stuff is in your house. I really started doing the murals when I couldn't show my work in galleries, so we started something called the outdoor gallery and the outdoor gallery has now turned into, you know, this massive mural project all over the island and and beyond. Right, because now the region wants some sake murals and I'll be doing, I'll be doing a few murals in the region this year, hopefully. But how I incorporate that is.
Speaker 2:I looked at all these on petroglyphs you have on the island. I really like petroglyphs, um, I I find them. Sometimes I go and look for them and study them and I'm like, okay, what was this person trying to see? What he just bought, what he just making a mark. But that's the point. You make a mark. Maybe they were not thinking about that thing would be around for many years. They just made the mark in the moment. So when I do make a mark, I want my murals to be modern day petroglyphs. So I'm making a mark, I'm making it colorful, I'm making it bright, I'm representing the times, I'm telling a story about the past, I'm bringing the people in, I'm encouraging other people to come and pay. So I'm basically just making a mark. Yeah, and that's how I use the black outlines, because, you know, petroglyphs they paint them in white so that they stand out.
Speaker 2:When I do my colorful murals, I use black outlines and just I make maps, I tell stories. Sometimes I leave things uncolored, no color. Imagine you have a very colorful mural and then you have an area that's just a black outline. People are drawn to this area that's not colored. You have a prehistoric building, everything is colored. But they notice this one little spot. You know one little flower over there. Oh, did he leave that there Uncolored? Is it intentional? Why is it not colored? It looks, looks unfinished, but we don't know if it's finished. So you know stuff like that. You know, let people think got you, got you.
Speaker 1:So you leave things again up for people's interpretation, and I think that is a pretty interesting element in art because, at the end of the day, art is what you make it and you as in the viewer. You know, they say beauty is in the eye of the beholder and perception as well is in the eye of the beholder. So I think I really appreciate that and it makes a lot of sense to me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I studied a lot of engineering and when I was studying art, I discovered Da Vinci and his codices. He wrote notebooks where he just took notes of stuff and in there he has engineering droids, he has biological stuff, he has architecture. Of course he has the art. So he was doing everything. He was doing architecture, he was doing engineering, he was doing art and he was studying the human body all at the same time. And what now are his codices? His notebooks are? He was doing art and he was studying the human body, all at the same time. And what now are his codices? His notebooks being displayed in museums and people are buying them for millions of dollars. Were just his notes, his observations? So that's during my scholarly years, when I was studying stuff.
Speaker 2:I realized sometimes you just want to make a mark, you want to leave some things unsaid. Let people decide for themselves what it is. He did that in a lot of his works. There's a lot of mystery and people are still talking about it now and we don't know if he did not finish them or if he deliberately left them, but I think he's too much of a genius to have not finished them. I think he deliberately left things out in every single piece of art or design he did. There's something missing and people are trying to find it many, many years later, many hundreds of years later absolutely, absolutely, and if there's anybody to follow in this field, it would be davinci.
Speaker 1:Yes for sure. Now, last year I know that you had some special labels designed for peter bear right, I looked at the labels and I was really, really fascinated by them. Can you elaborate on the inspiration behind the design and also tell, maybe, how that collaboration came to be?
Speaker 2:I can see one right there, you know, you see, right there, right, see them. My wife, such an amazing woman, has now turned them into these little ornaments with lights in there. We don't even throw away the bottles, wow, just keep them, okay. So the design for this is actually this whole design. All right, now we've turned it into a puzzle I'm gonna sell myself right now, you see, okay, so we have puzzles. We have yes, that was. We have um tumblers, and that's a collaboration with myself at seattle and cotton shop. This is a one-of-a-kind um artist series that they're doing. It's almost like a lifestyle brand, because they have everything from from cups to mugs to t-shirts and everything I'm wearing one right now. It says St Lucia and this is the painting at Point Seraphim. So what? The design is literally another story. It's like a dream come true.
Speaker 2:I'm painting the mural, the Emancipation mural, and I'm up there on this three-story building, huge mural. It's hot, it's on the south side, it's on the south side, mostly on the south side, um, south west, so there's a lot of sun, and wherever you're on the crate, I have a little cooler. You know we should not be doing this right, drinking and working, but I have to stay cool as an artist. So I have some cold beers in there and you know, I'm having my pita while I'm working, no breaks, no, nothing. And I'm telling my buddy I said we drink so much pita beer, bigger pita beer, we drink so much pita beer that pita should sponsor us on the next mural. That's how we're giving people too much money because you just say, okay, sake, every time you just show you're taking a pito bear. You know that would be cool, right, and as soon as I'm done with the mural, all right, pito bear calls this person from pito bear. She calls me up and she's like I've seen your work, it's all over the place. Um, we, what do you think about doing a special label for independence? And I'm looking, I'm like, yeah, you talk about speaking things into reality.
Speaker 2:That was one of the moments when you just say, all right, that should happen. And then it happens. That's like, oh, my goodness, you know. And it's just like writing these moments down, like this quote I have behind me that says men of action are favored by the goddess of good luck If you're not doing anything, but nobody's going to see you, if you don't say something, if you don't manifest things if you don't have plans, if you don't have goals, it's not going to happen. So I spoke this and I got the call and it happened. And when they called me I'm like you know what? Y'all can just pay me in bay, like seriously, I would do this for nothing. But of course your wife would be like hey, you can't do this right yeah, bills pay.
Speaker 2:But that's how the collaboration came and the story behind it was me representing St Lucia. As an artist, I make things more difficult for everybody. So they wanted one label. I gave them three. So when I did the design, it was such a big design that it was the pitons it's like the piton bear, but in Saki style piton the original piton, and then I had the bird over there. But and then I had the bird over there and then I had the foliage right and the breadfruit tree and the banana tree and all that stuff. So when they did the design, they did three designs. A lot of people don't notice that it's three designs come together to form separate designs yeah, three separate designs, wow.
Speaker 2:So there's an example, right. So you have this one that's the pito with the 40 bike, and then, yes, the beginning of that would have been the bird, but then they would join together to continue the whole design. And when you have all three together, then you see the big ah. So you have to collect them all. You got to collect them all, man. I call it a trick. It is a collector's item.
Speaker 2:Collector's item. A lot of people when they noticed it they were like, oh my, it's different, like we just saw colorful stuff. But now we look at it and we're like, wait, but that one have a bird. But the other one I drink did. I never noticed that and people are now watching the label. Like how many people sit and look at labels and start reading stuff on the label? So I was like you know what, sometimes you even got to make the guys in the camera think a little bit.
Speaker 1:So that was a good experience. Got you Makes a lot of sense. Man Makes a lot of sense. Now I know that you have gotten into teaching. You are now utilizing what you've learned and giving it to others. Why did you decide to do that?
Speaker 2:Buddy, I didn't get into teaching. Teaching was my first job. I've been teaching for almost 20 years. So I literally graduated from school. The principal came to my house 17 years old, just literally. My birthday is in January, so by the time I graduate, I'm already 17 and I graduate, just I'm already 17. And I graduate just before summer, right, you graduate. And then in September I was already teaching.
Speaker 1:I was 17 years old. What were you teaching?
Speaker 2:At the primary school you teach everything, so I taught everything.
Speaker 1:Okay, okay.
Speaker 2:They got Mr Kuman, who gave me that first job teaching, and, uh, one of my biggest mentors, uh, satirina louise from labry she was a great mentor. And of course, my aunt and godmother, gretchen simian, for encouraging me. Because I was young, I didn't want to teach. It was like oh me teach. I don't want to deal with these kids like I'm young, I want to. You know, go on't want to teach. It was like oh me, teach. I don't want to deal with these kids Like I'm young, I want to. You know, I want to go back to school, I want to go to A-level. Everybody go post-sec. I want to teach, like she encouraged me and that's where it started.
Speaker 2:So I was thrust into adulthood, into responsibility, into, yeah, big shoes immediately. I didn't have a chance to stray away, I was just thrown in there, lion's den. So I now had to teach. I now had to impart this knowledge. I now had to further my education. I was at Teachers College at 19 years old. So I taught at 17,. Teachers College first degree, then taught again, then university, then I'm back into teaching at Machosa Secondary School. But I also teach, as you said, I do art classes at Uncharted in Jade Mountain. I'm the resident artist in principle, so I teach art classes there and I curate their art gallery. There's a great art collectors, amazing patrons of the art. They do a lot when it comes to art in St Lucia, although you don't hear their names being mentioned, but they have a huge local art collection by just supporting local artists, right? So so I'm still, I'm still teaching there.
Speaker 1:Got you. So you was always. You were always a teacher. Oh, You've just embraced a different style of teaching, I guess.
Speaker 2:Right now I'm teaching only art. Before I used to teach other things, but now I am the art teacher. I don't even call myself an artist. I call myself an artist, so I'm an artist. I can teach art. Okay, right, yeah.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, that makes perfect sense. Perfect sense. Alright, bro, so we quickly come into the end of the interview. It has been a fantastic interview. I've really enjoyed it. After your career is over, whenever you decide to just take it easy, what would you like to be remembered for?
Speaker 2:meh, I don't know if the career is gonna be over, because I've not even started. Like a lot of people think, you're a career artist. But I'm just getting started. I'm just starting to do things that I've always dreamt to do. The career will not be over because I will always be creating. I'll always be making art when I do get to take it easy, when I do get to a place in life that I am comfortable enough to stop painting these big murals or I have a team doing it, maybe I can stand and watch them. I want to have a team doing it. Maybe I can stand and watch them. I want to have a creative.
Speaker 2:It's like a school for the art, but I would just call it a creative center, not like a craft center, not an art school. A creative center where anything creative can be done, anything. It will have studio space for artists. It will have gallery space for artists. It will have gallery space to share artwork. It will have after school programs for children to find something to do. It will have summer programs. It's just a whole center, a bunch of buildings where people can come in and be creative Anything from craft to painting, to drawing to ceramics. Just a creative center. You know be creative. Come in here. Learn to do sculpture. Here's an empty room. You have something to work on. Use it. Work it. We have been providing the tools. Be creative.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, absolutely, and I look forward to having that. And that's not. That's not a retirement at all. Yes, and you know there's a school of thought that says that work is absolutely necessary for human beings. You know it is not the end of work. So retirement is not the end of work, but it is a shift in work, maybe yeah, shifting work if you stop working you die.
Speaker 2:You know you will die. Yeah, if you, if you're working for somebody and it's strenuous and it's you know it's it's, then you don't want to do it, you don't enjoy it. But when you work, for yourself.
Speaker 2:When you're an artist, when you create yourself, I feel like I feel like I'm in a dream. I feel like I have hit the cheat mode in life, because everything I do it's like it's a form of plea. I'm creating these murals, it's fun, I'm doing this, I'm making these big things. People want to collaborate and you know, I'm teaching art. For me it's just fun. It's not like, oh my god, I'm doing this and I might be doing it wrong. No, it's all. It's plain for me and I'm just for sure I'm giving you a lot of thought. I'm making it more difficult for myself, a lot more difficult, because you know people are watching you. But at the end, when I look back at it, I was like man, I had fun doing this. We painted a pre-story building in two weeks. We painted a pyramid at Point Surf in five days, met a lot of international artists.
Speaker 2:When I did the Darren Sammy Cricket Grounds, the walls were so long I didn't measure them. I looked at the walls. I was like, okay, you'll need this amount of paint to do it. And the guy said, all right, you have three weeks to do it. It was a huge wall. I think it's over 700 square foot of wall. But I never measured it, I just estimated, all right, that's that amount of work and, um, let's get it done. And that was a huge project we worked all night on beautiful, it was fun. It's not like. It was not like, oh, the deadline is there, no. And then you're scared. I'm like, no, the deadline is here. Guys, can, can we do another Jouvet on this? And everybody's like, yeah, let's do it.
Speaker 1:Enjoyment, enjoyment. You know, if you enjoy your work, they say you never work a day in your life For sure. Final question Najah, a young artist is watching this podcast and they were a fan of your work even before they watched this podcast, but want a word of advice. They're afraid of getting full time into this art field. You know, some people say they'll starve as an artist. What would your word of advice be to them?
Speaker 2:boy, that's a steve jobs moment there, right let me tell you something when I, when I got into this art thing, I tell you, art chooses you. It's like you don't go around like, yeah, boy, I want to be an artist. No, you first of all to be an artist, I have to stand out from the. You have to be so good at what you do that everybody will notice you, okay, and they will give you that chance because you're so good. So this young artist, if it's drawing you want to do, put 1,000 hours in, like, put more than 1,000. Put 10,000 hours, okay, be so good at drawing. If it's painting, if it's craft, whatever you do, put in all the time and effort. Don't think you're going to be in this thing and half at it. The reason why most of what I'm doing is playing is because I have gone so far in my practice that I'm not even feeling challenged when I get a chance to do something. I'm like I've been there. Get a chance to do something? I'm like I've been there before. I've been to this point before. You ask me to paint a 10 foot by 10 foot wall, I'm like, alright, no problem, I will reach there, and you know it's. It's not even a challenge anymore after you've painted a three story building right. So you have to put yourself in the mud? Be be. Don't put yourself in the mud. Be so good at what you do. Go through the hard times, all right.
Speaker 2:I used to sketch every day for a long time. Now I can do 10-minute portraits. But how can you do this? You're blessed. You have blessed hands. I mean, I have a lot of practice. Yeah, I practice this a lot. I know exactly what I'm doing.
Speaker 2:Another thing about being a starving artist I can't sell out that notion from my brain. Many, many years ago I flipped it. I switched it up. I said I'm a hungry artist, not a starving artist. So when I come to you, I'm not starving, I'm hungry, and I don't leave any money on the table. I don't leave crumbs behind. When I attack a job and I say I want do this, I put everything at it and I and I do it. So I don't go around thinking I'm a starving artist. If you go around thinking like that, you will starve, so you have to go out there hungry. Um.
Speaker 2:Another word of advice don't think too much about what people say about you. People don't talk, they will talk. People will always talk. Okay, say about you, people don't talk. They will talk. People will always talk. Okay, they will talk about you. Don't go thinking you're not good or your work is not good enough. No, just do it. Do it good, do it the way you know it's good, and even though it's it's not good enough, there's a reason why you do it and there's a reason why you made it the way it is. Once you start doubting yourself and thinking about what other people think, you need to go back to the drawing board. Put them 10,000 hours in a game. You know, get better at it, but accept criticism. It's very important. Don't walk around thinking you know everything Okay, everything Okay, but you know, accept criticism, absolutely, that's beautiful advice bro, hungry artist, not starving artist.
Speaker 2:Let's change that notion Hungry, hungry artist.
Speaker 1:Yes, for sure. So, Anto, thank you so much for coming on, man. I appreciate your insight. I've learned for myself and I know for sure my audience has learned as well.
Speaker 2:Thank you. Thank you, Queen.
Speaker 1:Absolutely Alright, guys. So this has been yet another fantastic episode of the Game Changers podcast. Remember to like and subscribe. Follow Game Changers podcast. Remember to like and subscribe. Follow Game Changers wherever you get your podcasts. We are available on YouTube, on Spotify and on Apple Podcasts, so, whether you're listening or watching, you can get Game Changers Anyhow. As usual, stay hungry and I'll see you next time. Free audio post-production.