Lee & Christina King: Assless Chaps, Spiritual Surrender, and a Life-Changing $5 Bill

In this deeply human and unforgettable episode, Christina Miglino King returns to the show—this time joined by her partner, award-winning drag king and trans non-binary activist Lee King (aka Phantom Nips). Together, they share the story of how they met, fell in love, and built a new kind of life—one rooted in truth, presence, and the kind of connection that only comes after burning it all down.

We talk about the moments that change us: a devastating burnout, a $5 bill with a phone number, walking shirtless into the sun for the first time, saying “I’m staying” in the middle of a hard conversation. Christina reflects on what it meant to let her old life collapse—shutting down a business, grieving the identity she had built, and trusting the strange, undeniable pull of her intuition… all the way to the love of her life. Lee opens up about gender, drag, cancer, sobriety, and surviving a suicide attempt that gave them a second chance at life.

Topics:

• Ego death and rebuilding identity
• Drag, gender, embodiment, and authenticity
• Burnout, collapse, and radical redirection
• Queer love and being chosen for who you are
• Body dysphoria and healing through top surgery
• Sobriety, depression, and surviving suicide
• Starting over at any age
• The power of staying through the hard stuff
• What it means to be seen, truly seen—and stay

Transcript

Unknown: 0:00

Hmm.

Speaker 03: 0:02

To even question what you've been told is true is incredibly courageous. It doesn't always feel like courage what looks like courage to other people. For me, it feels like survival. This is our personal medicine.

Speaker 07: 0:15

If I'm surrounded by thinkers, by lovers, by passion, by integrity, then I really do think that I know who I am.

Speaker 06: 0:21

There is a peace that is indescribable when you're being who you are and you're living your purpose. I'm not going to come to the end of my life and be like, I didn't live the life I was meant to live.

Jessica: 0:30

Can I be so comfortable in the idea This is the Inner

Melissa : 0:40

Rebel Podcast.

Jessica: 0:50

Christina Maglino-King And when you first joined us, you were in the depths of burnout and letting go of an old identity and a business, a whole life. And now you are in a chapter of reinventing yourself and newly married to the love of your life. And so we're excited to have you back because there's been so many changes and I've been witness to a lot of those changes and your process through these different dimensions of self. And I'm really excited to share with our listeners today. And we are also excited to have Lee Ignatius King. Are you also known as Phantom Nips on stage? Is that?

Lee King: 1:58

Yes, that's my drag king name.

Jessica: 2:01

Your drag king name is Phantom Nips. You're an award-winning non-binary transmasculine drag king based in Santa Fe, New Mexico. You live your life proudly as a non-binary trans masc person who believes that all bodies are beautiful and that we should all live freely as our authentic selves. You're also the recipient of the 2024 New Mexico In

Lee King: 2:22

the running for this year, too. Amazing.

Jessica: 2:26

And you placed second as a world champion in the Highland Games as an athlete. So through your drag-esque performances and your daily existence, you challenge norms around beauty, gender, and identity. And I am so happy to have you with us today and have the two of you with us today. I'm so excited to get to meet

Melissa : 2:44

you. I'm really boring. I don't think that's remotely true. Not even a little bit. If you're boring, then I don't know what that makes me. So I really got to up my game if that's what boring is.

Jessica: 2:57

I have so many questions about how you two met and I want to hear your story. But the first question that we ask our guests is what is your relationship to your inner rebel? So I would love to offer that to

Christina Miglino King: 3:12

both of you. Is

Lee King: 3:13

there an inner?

Jessica: 3:15

Yeah,

Christina Miglino King: 3:16

right. I was going to say Lee shows their rebel all over the place. place.

Jessica: 3:21

You're an inner-outer rebel. I'm curious what your journey has been with that rebel.

Lee King: 3:25

Wow. Inner rebel. Yeah. My mom used to call it my artistic personality. Yeah. That's the nice way to say it. It's like I always questioned things. And I was raised Catholic, so you weren't supposed to do that. I think it was more, the rebel is rebellious, just in all directions when I was younger, without a focus. And now I realize that I can use that to help community and to speak out for others that maybe

Speaker 05: 3:54

don't

Lee King: 3:55

want that target on them. And I'm in my... Can I swear on the show?

Speaker 05: 4:00

Yeah. Always.

Lee King: 4:01

Yes, absolutely. I call it my fuck it 50s.

Speaker 05: 4:03

Yeah.

Lee King: 4:04

It is a magical moment when you cross over into the 50s where you really... don't care as much about what other people are thinking about you. You just want to do right by yourself, by your family, by your friends and your community and whatever that takes. So it's not always pretty. It's not always, what's the word? How would you describe me?

Christina Miglino King: 4:28

How would I describe you? You just described yourself perfectly, but you're a badass. And yeah, you're not, you don't, like fear is not a way that you, live your life you know you don't yeah not that we're not afraid of things or you're not

Lee King: 4:44

yeah definitely fear is a factor especially in 2025 you know every morning I wake up and start doom scrolling but it's working past that fear I think I when I was younger I would be paralyzed by it now it's like I hate it but I know that it won't do myself or Christina or my community any good If I just sit here and do nothing, I can never change things if I don't do something about it myself first. So I put the pressure on me and then the rest of the world.

Melissa : 5:21

Before we have Christina answer the question, I grew up in a very conservative Christian household, so I can relate to the do not question anything mentality. Was this part of you nurtured in your family of origin or were you kind of fighting against what they expected you to be? Were they nurturing to this part of you that was challenging the status quo? Was there some part of your family that allowed you to be you or was it looked different? down upon and they kept trying to put you back in the box that they wanted you to be in. I

Lee King: 6:00

think they eventually gave up. And then they passed a long time ago in 2010. And they didn't get to see what I have become. But it was stages of it. I mean, they let me be an art major, go to art school. Like I said, the term was artistic temperament. That was, it's like, it's okay, leave special. Just go with it. But I just always felt kind of like in the company of their friends, they were a little bit ashamed. So I would be more quiet around certain groups of people.

Jessica: 6:38

There was a time that you did care more about what other people thought of you. And I'm wondering what helped that shift. Was there a defining moment? Was it just evolving over time? How did... Did you reach a point where you decided it doesn't matter anymore? I'm just going to be myself.

Lee King: 6:56

After breast cancer and I had top surgery, breast cancer gave me the body I always wanted. I never thought I would do top surgery. I thought I would just stay pretty much closeted my entire life and just go with it. And then cancer. Cool. Had to deal with it. So it was going to be one side. We did the wink, wink, nudge, nudge to the surgeon and we got both. Once I got rid of my breasts, which was my dysmorphia, then a year later, I started testosterone. And just coming into my body and myself and being and seeing the person that I always saw in my head, in reality, in the mirror, gave me the confidence to to really not care anymore about if people found out who i was so and it's a fight it's stressful you know i'm passing as a man now even though i don't identify as a man i am making it a point of correcting people that i am non-binary because then People won't learn that there is the other. There are other genders. It really does exist, folks. You know, I've tried to fit into that box too. It's like, well, maybe because I look more masculine, I should be a man. I don't feel that way. I'm not a woman. I'm not a man. Somewhere in between. All of it, none of it. And it's okay. It's okay. That's what I want to teach people. It's like, it's not a threat. It's not going to change your life. Me changing mine ain't going to change yours. Yeah.

Jessica: 8:36

I would love to just go back to that moment. Thank you so much for having me. I feel like there's some kind of full integration that must occur between all of these different parts of you that would never come together until that moment. Never be. Yeah.

Lee King: 9:06

I mean, there's been moments like the first time walking out in public without a shirt on. That's like a scary, you know, what's going to happen? You know, are you going to get arrested for something?

Unknown: 9:17

Yeah.

Lee King: 9:18

Wow, this is cool. Feeling the sun on your chest and your back, which is so stupid. Because again, my platform is bodies. We should all be able to walk around. Yeah. You know, nothing's going to happen. Nobody should be doing anything nasty or naughty to another human being without their consent. But starting the changes, like my voice changed. That was a happy surprise. I didn't think I'd like that. So now I sound like a gay man. What else? Slowly, my face has kind of changed, noticing little things, people that haven't seen me in a while, noticing things. First time I was called senor at Backroad Pizza where we work. I was like, hey, senor. I was like, I'm senor now rather than dude or bro. That was cool. I'm also trying not to take offense when people do say Well, I hate the word ma'am. Who doesn't? It's like ma'am or miss, but if I'm gendered the other way, I'm like, oh, okay, cool. So I'm kind of like fluid. That's nice. There's little surprises every day of people notice. And then doing drag. Drag is affirming in itself. People like me, and that's nice. I

Melissa : 10:36

think it's such a beautiful testament to the iterative process of being seen for who you are, which... I believe every human that's on that journey has these bite-sized moments. I love that you're describing like, oh, I was referred to as this and then I had this moment. And becoming the embodiment of who you are isn't an overnight thing. You don't wake up one day and you're like, I have arrived. It's just such a devotion moment. a devotion to being you and I think when we find a community that can reflect back to us and even extract it further it's like that permission and safety like I can exist here safely as me and then what else is available for me to be even more expressed even more me and there is a group of people that's like yeah we love you exactly as you are you don't need to be any different and I mean, I know our journeys are obviously very different, but I've needed those people that I've discerned as safe to be able to have that witnessing to just say like, hey, this is what I see in you. This is what I love in you. And please continue to be that. So I'm just really present to that as you're sharing your story of becoming because it's just so beautiful, the feeling of belonging and being seen.

Jessica: 11:56

And Christina, I know you've been on your own version, a different version of this process of becoming. So I'm going back to that question. What is your relationship currently to your inner rebel? We talked a little bit about it in that first episode, but you've changed a lot since then. So I'd love to hear. Oh, gosh.

Christina Miglino King: 12:16

What is it? You know, I mean, there's sort of a, we mentioned like the fuck it 50s and I'll be 40 this year. And there's a degree of that for 40s. It's probably not as liberated as the 50s, you know. I think as we get older, that becoming unfolds naturally in some way. I think that's the natural tendency for human beings, I think, maybe. So there is definitely an element of like, oh yeah, no, I'm exhausted. So I don't care if you like me or not. You know, like there's a level of like, I'm so done with another way of saying it is like, is reaching for what I want. Okay, that sounds like I don't have any like desire to get what I want. I have lots of desire in me to have the life that I want and to be who I want to be. But this year in particular has shown me manifesting something is not about It's not about like I have to go and grasp everything. I feel like that's actually like a very colonial way. I mean, I'm a white person. I think that a lot of us that look like me, we naturally think, oh, I just go like be the fastest and the quickest. And I have to stay up the longest and not rest and not sleep and not be able to function and be like sick half the time, but still going. And then I can have what I want. And I think that's really silly. Now that I've had my lifetime, this 40 years of studying energy and energy medicine, it's like actually if I just be it right now, I'm going to just draw it to me. That's easier. Like I'm tired. Like that's how I feel, you know? And I think that is rebellious because it's rebellious thinking. It's like, I don't have to buy into the fact that I can't have multiple careers in my life or that I can't take a couple years to work at a pizza shop and make minimum wage so that I can have some resource inside of me to listen to what is next and how I can best serve the planet now, you know? So I really am in a rebirth time. It's been several years. And by the way, it's okay if it takes time. Well, it always does.

Melissa : 14:36

Yeah. Oh my gosh. Yeah. And it's painful sometimes too, you know, whatever the, I mean, we're always in the in-between, but it goes back to what you said that it's like, it has to happen overnight. It has to be in a Totally. Right. It seems like you were in that big transition of switching from I have to generate everything to I can allow it to come to me.

Christina Miglino King: 15:17

Yeah, I mean, then I was devastated still about that understanding. I felt like the wool was finally... Like, I didn't have my blinders on anymore and I realized the truth about something here, like about the energy of things and that... yeah, that I don't have to do it alone. And all the pushing in my business wasn't that helpful anyway. And so many things. And I had a great business and Jessica Rose and Melissa, you were both part of it. You know, it was a beautiful community for some time. And I always kind of knew that like it wasn't sustainable the way it was forever, especially with me being the Like I love being a leader. I think it's a beautiful thing. But the truth of leadership is really like to create many leaders around you so that you're all leading together. And I think we had that at times. But I didn't know how to reframe things to be like that in a business. And quite honestly, I worked a couple years past my burnout. So I was so far gone by the time that I shut the doors that I had to let go of everything I had. I let go of my home. I let go of everything, my land. And it was like, it was interesting to experience building, you know, in entrepreneurship, it's like, build it, build it, build it. And it's like, I also experienced the complete collapse of everything. And also that wasn't overnight. It's not like, oh my God, it was a tragedy and everything was lost. It's like, no, this is life. This is how energy works. Everything grows and eventually experiences its full potential and then it dies and it goes back into the earth and it gets recomposted. That's everything, you know? But yeah, that was terrifying. I remember when you guys asked me to do an interview and I was like, why would you want to interview me? Like, I have a hot mess. I have no idea who I am. Everything I thought I knew is gone. But that's actually, that's the major ego deaths that we have to, if we're lucky enough to survive them, we learn so much from that. We learn more about life in that experience than I think pretty much anything else. And it's devastating. It's devastating. I can cry about it right now if I want to, because it's so, it's still right there in my heart, you know, what I lost, what it feels like was lost, you know,

Jessica: 17:39

but it's still there. I remember at the time you saying that, why would you want to have me on now? But for me, I remember thinking it was the bravest thing I had ever seen anyone do. It was so brave. It was so honest. It was so true to yourself. I knew no one who would have that commitment to self, that self-awareness and trust that to know this isn't working and it's okay if I let it all go and just be born again and see what happens. And so many of us are asked to do that in our lives, but very few do it so gracefully. Not enough it felt gracefully. I don't think it felt graceful. A tornado sweeping you up. I don't think internally it felt graceful. But it really was. It was deliberate. It was very intentional. And I'm really excited to share where it led.

Speaker 05: 18:41

And I

Jessica: 18:42

do remember, yeah, you shut down the business and you're like, I'm working at a pizza shop now.

Lee King: 18:49

Best pizza in Santa Fe, though.

Jessica: 18:51

I've heard that and I can't wait to try it. But I remember just being so proud of you and thought it was the coolest thing ever, even though it was so hard. And I knew it was really painful. I knew all the things that you were going through. But then let's flash forward a little bit in this process, in this time. Can you share how the two of you met?

Christina Miglino King: 19:10

Yeah. Do you want?

Lee King: 19:11

Go for it, babe. Let's start.

Christina Miglino King: 19:14

Okay. So for me, I was... obsessed with my business. My business was my partner. Like I didn't do a lot of dating. There was occasional dating. I mean, I was with somebody when I started my business and I left them. When I left Washington, we had separated and then I was alone for about five years and I really didn't, I wasn't going out a lot. I mean, it was COVID too. We were online and that's what I did. And then once I was shutting down the business and everything, I mean, I was completely lost. and confused about the direction of my life. I mean, I still knew who I was and I knew, I just want to say this, like I never lost track of the gifts that I have because I have major gifts, psychically and intuitively. Like I know that about myself, you know? So that part of my self wasn't lost. I think it's important that self was there when I met Lee, that awareness of self. So the first time I ever saw this person, I brought a neighbor. I was living rurally before I sold my house, and I brought a neighbor and my mother to drag bingo because I was like, my mom will do anything like that. She's super into having fun and whatever new experience. She's the best. She's the best. She's wonderful. Yeah. And my neighbor, Clyde, who is also a queer person who I adore, and we were like, This will be hilarious. Drag and bingo. Great. Let's do it. So we went to Tumble Root Brewery, which is a big open warehouse brewery here in Santa Fe. And I mean, I think the most profound thing for me, which Lee was completely unaware of when it happened, is that I walked into this building and there weren't a lot of people there yet, but there were people milling about, you know, and I had some kind of massive, visceral, full body response to somebody in the space. And what was crazy is I didn't know at first the moment it happened, I didn't know who it was. All I knew is that I had never experienced this before. It was really weird. And I didn't know how to articulate it to anybody. So I was just having this experience. But like Clyde and my mom are like, should we get burgers and let's go get a drink? What do you want? I was just like, what is happening right now? And it felt like this heart opening. It felt like, I don't know, it felt like an expanded space inside of me. And I knew it was related to another person in this space. And so as I started to investigate, I kind of see Lee in my periphery. And Leah's like full drag, leather jacket, assless chaps, full body tattoos, rainbow hair. And I was like, that's the person. I'm pansexual. I've known that for a while. So for me, I feel really lucky that way because I'm just like not caught up in like what someone's junk is. You know, I'm more just like, how does it feel to be with you? And what kind of conversation can we have? And I have that too. You know, I'm pretty cerebral. So I want to know someone's intellect and spirit. So anyway, I was just like, okay, whoa. So the whole time I'm having this fun night out with my mom and my friend, I'm just completely having an internal, what the fuck is going on? Who is this person? What am I supposed to do with this information? Because it's big. It didn't feel like a small shift inside of me. And it also didn't feel like the kind of, like my mom goes like, obviously they have a hot ass, you know? I'm like, yeah, but it's more than that. Like, I think it's a little more than that. This is absolutely true. But in the moment, right? She was like, well,

Lee King: 22:56

they're hot. No moneymaker. That's

Melissa : 22:57

the moneymaker. That's the moneymaker. Yeah, it's the other moneymaker.

Jessica: 23:01

How do you feel about the fact that Christina's mom thinks you have a

Melissa : 23:04

hot

Christina Miglino King: 23:06

ass? Everybody, you would think Lisa's ass is hot too. It's hard not to. It's a universal agreement. It's a universal hot ass.

Lee King: 23:14

People like it.

Christina Miglino King: 23:18

I mean, he does a lot of stripping in their drag. So I think

Lee King: 23:21

I do drag less. So I'm always taking my clothes off, but not for a sexual purpose. It's more just to show bodies, you know, trans bodies and celebrate trans bodies. But there's nothing weird about it. And if you have feelings, hey, question that.

Christina Miglino King: 23:35

Right. Yeah. Yeah.

Lee King: 23:36

But yeah, mom liking my butt before meeting her. was odd. We had phone conversations on that. I'm like, yeah, okay, this is me with clothes on.

Christina Miglino King: 23:45

But yeah, so that night happened. I didn't talk to Lee. I mean, there was slight interaction with my table when they were performing because that was part of their performance is kind of interacting with people.

Lee King: 23:57

Yeah, I actually messed with, I call it messing with, Clyde. And I want to get up on them and take the money and touch people i can touch them they can't touch me and she was messing with something and was totally oblivious that i was at the table

Christina Miglino King: 24:09

i was not

Lee King: 24:10

oblivious i thought you said you oh no i

Christina Miglino King: 24:12

well insides were turning i was very aware you were at the table there's nowhere else to be but right there being like oh god i

Lee King: 24:21

was later when the show was over i was going around to people oh

Christina Miglino King: 24:25

yeah my mom was like they're walking over here and i was looking online for your next show And I found it. And then Clyde and I went to that. Wow, you were on it. Well, I was just like, what do you do? I really didn't know. You stalk them. That's what you do. You stalk them.

Melissa : 24:41

This is where you go against what you just said, where you like initiate, you make it happen, you go for the thing you

Lee King: 24:46

want. Because I'm not, you know, I'm just like,

Christina Miglino King: 24:49

hey. Yeah. Yeah. You were very passive the whole time. But like, to be fair, you can talk about your experience falling in love with me now. But that experience was mine. It wasn't mutual in the moment, you know, which is fine. And I think stalking involves multiple days of like trying to find someone. This was like, I actually did go out in the parking lot to look for them but they were gone it was like they were there and gone after they performed I didn't see them because I thought at least I would say hi why not like what have I got to lose when something feels like this in your life I just learned to listen and not know what it means I was fully aware that Lee could have been married or could have been in multiple relationships who knows you know I didn't know. And to be fair, Clyde had mentioned this show already, The Holiday Havoc Show at Albuquerque Social Club, which is a queer club in Albuquerque. And that was something we wanted to go to. And when I looked it up, you were on the list of performers. And I was like, well, what the hell? We'll go and see what happens. And I even thought, like, maybe it's a fluke. Like, maybe I'll show up in that space and I'll feel nothing and we'll have a great night. So I didn't feel nothing. I felt weird. and confused and I watched the show and I happened to have one drink there. I think this is kind of interesting because I stopped drinking after that night. I had like one alcoholic beverage and that was it. But Clyde, after the show was done, was just like, just go find them. Go give them your phone number. Who cares? Just do it. And I was like, okay. And I've never done this. I'm fairly confident in my life. Like I can do the things I need to do. When it comes to romance, I was petrified. I was like, that's insane. Who's going to want to take my phone number on a piece of paper? So I took out a $5 bill because I was like a stripper wants money, right? So I pushed. So I'm totally kidding. It's just what I had. At least

Melissa : 26:46

get a 20. Good Luke.

Christina Miglino King: 26:50

I didn't have one. I have to go to the ATM real quick. I need a larger bill for this important moment. It does draw attention. I didn't know it was going to be an important moment. I knew it could be something. That's all I knew, right? So I went to the bar and I asked for a pen. And by the way, you can't really write on dollar bills. So it looks like I'm like, it's like chicken scratching my freaking number. I'm like, they're not even going to be able to read this, whatever. You know, like carve it. Yeah, right. And I turn around, I don't see them anywhere. And Clyde was like, ask baby Jesus, ask baby Jesus, because somebody was dressed as baby Jesus for one of their drag numbers. And so I had turned around and this person was like in swaddling clothes, right? So I was like, baby Jesus, I need you to give Phantom Nips a message for me. And Ryder Cox was their drag name. Ryder was like, I don't really know them. But I'll do my best. So Ryder's like walking around trying to find Lee. And I was like, I got to get out of here. I've done my thing. I feel like I'm going to be sick. Let's go. So we walk out. And who's right there in the parking lot is like Lee with no shirt on and a harness, a leather harness, talking to a couple other people. And then Ryder comes up behind me and grabs me and is like, you're coming with me and brings me right to Lee. And is like, this is Christina. She wants you to have her number. Here's the number.

Lee King: 28:15

She wants to give you this. Hi. Yeah. She wants to

Christina Miglino King: 28:18

give you this. Yeah. And Lee is so adorable because, well, you can talk about your experience, but opens it up and is like, what?

Lee King: 28:26

What's happening? Yeah, it

Christina Miglino King: 28:28

was just like so grounded. Virgo, you know, it was just like, huh. And I'm just dying. Then what happened?

Lee King: 28:34

Yeah, when I'm done with shows, I just kind of want to get out of there. I had a lot of props for the show. So I'm just loading my stuff and I'm getting stopped every step of the way. People wanting to talk to me. So I was talking to another drag king. And then Ryder comes up to me dragging this person who looks mortified. And hands me the $5 bill. And it's like, wants to give you this. Like, oh, thank you. Okay. Her number's on it. What? Oh, okay. It is. And I'm still confused, like, well, why?

Speaker 05: 29:05

Because

Lee King: 29:07

a lot of the time, I'm like, well, why do you? Okay. And then slowly start thinking, oh, well, I was newly single. And I make a point of telling people my real name. Maybe I shouldn't afterwards if I'm going to establish a relationship outside of drag. It's like, when I'm not working, my name is Lee. And I told her I would text her the next day. And I did. And pretty much that was the beginning of the end of singleness. We went out on our first date. She brought flowers, which I still have dried out in the living room. That's a key with me. Even though I'm mass presenting, you give me a bouquet. It was very sweet. We had appetizers. And geez, we did the lesbian U-Haul for the most part. To let her house. But we never really separated after that. And I'm slow. It wasn't instant for me. It builds. And I have to learn to trust. And I think I'm still learning that. I had come out of a really traumatic relationship, a long-term relationship. And I vowed I'm not going to do that to myself. And I'm not going to do that to another human being again. As far as like when it's bad or something doesn't work, don't stay in it or learn to have hard conversations and get past it. I'm still learning that. We do. It's not all rainbows and butterflies. I'm hard to live with. I'm... very in my head and learning to live with another person and share your life has been amazing and a joy that I thought I'd never have. So yeah, I have my moments. So yeah, we never left. And then last June, cause she's a pride baby. I wanted to end pride with proposing to her at one of my shows, the drag brunch. And I had her brother, uh, With her in the crowd, he had the ring, and I did this song that still makes her cry.

Christina Miglino King: 31:03

Oh, my God.

Lee King: 31:04

I kept the $5 bill. So when I did my stripping, I had it tucked in my kill that I was going to strip out. So it's like when I tore my shirt off, this is the best. You can see the $5 bill sticking out, and I wrote on it, Christina, will you marry me? And in pink, you know, lettering bright, it's bright like me, her face, she's doing the, I'm trying to read it. You read it. Since this is audio. What are you doing? You said that, Christina. And it's hard to, like, not get the smile. You

Speaker 05: 31:36

know what

Lee King: 31:36

else to say. Yeah, she knew what was going to happen then, and then I came over, her brother handed me the ring, and in front of the crowd, she said yes. It was

Christina Miglino King: 31:43

the best day of my life.

Lee King: 31:45

I mean, truly. I knew that Christina was my person, that I don't need, I don't want anyone else. Like I said, I'm not always easy to live with, but we're doing it together.

Melissa : 31:53

Nobody's easy to live with. I'm like, this is a real human relationship

Lee King: 31:57

thing. Drag is my life. Yeah. I think about it, live it 24-7 for the most part. So it's like drag was my life, but then Christina entered and priorities and trying to make it all work and not caring as much about, okay, well, we can't do this, but I got you. So maybe one day or maybe never, it doesn't really matter. I got her and our three dogs.

Jessica: 32:21

There's a few things that I'd like to circle back and touch on that you said that I thought were really beautiful. I am curious about, Why you texted? Like, why did you actually follow up? Because a lot of people might get a phone number and be like, ah, and not necessarily

Lee King: 32:38

follow through. Okay, good point. I actually received two numbers that night. Yeah, that's the irony. A friend of mine was trying to, like, get me to date a friend of theirs just for a hookup. And that really... It's not me. That's not my style. You know, if I'm going to invest anything, it better be something good. She seemed nice. And again, it was like she was... honest, sincere, and again, just terrified. You could see it. It's like, okay, this isn't going to be like somebody that wants to like use me for something. It

Melissa : 33:08

felt sincere. It felt sincere. She didn't feel well-practiced in the art

Lee King: 33:11

of giving away her number. And then the texting is like, I don't call. Everything is a text, you know, in this day and age for the most part. And then she actually still has a better working car and picked me up. So I was like trapped in the car with her.

Jessica: 33:25

You forced them into this. You said so many beautiful things about what I just think relationships, And I really honor that it does take time to trust someone and to build those feelings. What was it about Christina that you experienced that allowed you to surrender to what you had found with her?

Lee King: 33:50

What was a turning point for me? It was when we had a hard conversation and she stayed and she said, I'm not going anywhere. And for me, I've had a lot of people close to me, you know, leave throughout my life, even like losing my family, where I just learned to be on my own and it was okay. It wasn't okay, but I told myself it was. And really believing her, and she didn't. She stayed. She didn't abandon me. And I realized, oh, I can be vulnerable to somebody. Shit can hit the fan. Things don't have to be perfect. And they're still going to see me. I'm going to see them. And we're still going to be together. And it's okay. Everything is okay. Even when all hell is breaking loose. You don't have a lot of money. Trans bills are being passed. Right and left. They're targeting us. It's okay. Because we have each other. We'll make it through. Somehow. We'll make it through. I don't have all the answers, but that's also okay. We will figure it out somehow. Yeah. So she stayed. She stayed. So I want to stay with her.

Jessica: 35:13

What do you think the relationship has been teaching you through having somebody show you that they will stay?

Lee King: 35:19

Compromise. I'm not always right. Not. A lot of the time I am. But. In life, in life. I'm a Virgo. If I speak it, there's usually a reason behind it. I won't say it. Otherwise, I'll just shut up. But it's the compromising and bending and just growing, learning things about yourself through another person, seeing yourself through another person. And that's interesting because I don't see what she sees in me. But lucky me. You know, it's watching her grow and step into her power again recently that she's trying things and exploring. You know, that's a kick, you know, because it's like I'm not, I'm a peacock definitely, but I do love to see her happy and trying things that are outside of her comfort zone and enjoying it.

Unknown: 36:14

Yeah.

Melissa : 36:15

I wish I could hug you both. Are you going to stay? Like it literally is like terrifying at such a cellular level of can we make it through these hard things? Can we have these conversations? Can we show each other these parts of ourselves that feel so sacred and scary? And are you going to stay? And I don't think it's necessarily easier to leave, but it can feel like the easier option of like, Instead of digging in deeper, what if we just left? And I didn't have to go there with you. I didn't have to risk putting my whole soul and heart on the line with you. And what I'm hearing and even in my personal lived experience of crossing this hardest fuck threshold in my relationship is the love that gets to be cultivated in that is so much more rich. It's so much more secure and wonderful than the honeymoon stage in the beginning when When you're like, you are my person and you're going to be by my side and I can really count on that. Like that's like a level of safety that I don't know that many people actually get to experience. So it's really beautiful. And I remember Christina. Like crying quietly this whole time over there. I know. I

Jessica: 37:47

mean, Leigh, I remember when Christina met you and I remember how she spoke about you and how sure that she was right from the get-go. And I'm curious, Christina, because you took a leap of faith and you gave this person a number and you really didn't know who they were. What did you discover on the first date or in actually beginning that relationship that affirmed those feelings, that hunch that you had? What did you see that said, I am, I'm staying? Yeah.

Christina Miglino King: 38:17

I mean, it is such a good question. And it's like in my body, it's hard to put words to it because it was just such a physical experience when I had that first moment with them. I mean, honestly, my intuition is really good. I think since I was very young, I felt like I would find my soulmate in this life. But I also went through so much hardship alone that I was like, it's not going to happen for me. And when I met Lee, I was not in a place of like, yeah, my life is great and I'm going to go find my soulmate. I really believe that in some way, at least for me, I'm a Gemini. Like we're very career driven and passion forward with our projects and our communities. And like, I know that I'm happy alone. And I'm so grateful I learned that before I met Lee, that I'm so good on my own and I'm so independent. And I really had to clear away so much in my life to see them. To have that moment. I mean, I'm not saying I wouldn't have seen them if I had still the business running. But I don't think I would have gone to drag bingo. You know, like I had so much happening in my little office in my house alone on a hill. I wasn't doing anything. And so it's interesting because so much had to die. So much had to leave me. I had to grieve so much. And then it was just interesting timing. Like when I met Lee, I had all this space in my life. And Lee deserves that space. And so it was easy to see them and what they wanted. And I remember one of our first conversations, like bigger conversations, I think we were here at the house or something. And Lee was like, I'm not giving up drag. And I was like, what? I would never, ever want you to. Like, what do you mean? You know, this is before we decided to be a couple. And I was like, fuck no, you'll never give up anything for me ever. We had moments that were really big for both of us, like big moments that were like, huh, landed inside of you. Oh, my God. Okay. I know for Lee, it was like I didn't want them to change. And I know what it's like when you fall in love quickly and it's like, oh, my God, this person is my world now. And I didn't mean to make Lee my world. It's just I didn't have a lot happening in my life. It was weird. It was like this moment of just like pause for me. where there was all this space open. And that's a scary place, especially if you're like a highly driven, you know, whatever. You identify as your career, which I definitely did. But I was just very much a yes for them right away. And it wasn't always easy. There were moments that I questioned that, like, oh my gosh, is this going to be too much? Because as much as I love big, I also... have my own wounds around living with somebody and being this close. And will they stay and will they be there? And can I really trust? And so there were lots of moments that I had that were like, what am I doing? Is this okay? Am I going to be okay? And I just kept listening to my gut. And the underlying message has just been like, you can stay. Like, it's going to be OK. You know, like that's been the constant with us. Weirdly, because it's never been like that before. You know what I mean? It's like you don't see it coming and then it's right there. I know, Jessica Rose, you recently had this experience. It's like you're like, wow, OK, my whole life just changed. Yeah. And how beautiful is that? Because when I was single for so long, I just thought, okay, I'll just put my love into something else. Because I have a massive capacity for love. That's my human design. You know, it's like, that's why I'm here. So like on some level, this is actually part of my design. Like I get to have the love of my life in this life. And Lee's human design is like, I'm going to completely die and come back to life multiple times in this life. And I'm going to be the biggest, brightest phoenix of them all. It's such a trip. Don't you have

Jessica: 42:36

a phoenix tattoo? Do I remember? Oh, they're all.

Lee King: 42:39

Yeah,

Jessica: 42:39

it's so cool. Yeah. On the cross of the phoenix. You have like a bunch of phoenixes. Yeah.

Lee King: 42:44

Amelia. Amelia does a lot of stuff for me. I don't even know what I have anymore.

Jessica: 42:49

Christina, you kind of touched on this, so I just wonder if we can solidify it. Maybe not because it might be too soon. You're still in the becoming. But I'm curious in all of this experience of becoming and what you're discovering now in this new phase of life. What do you think that is? What do you think you're discovering? here with Lee that your old life couldn't have held space for? Can you see why you had to let it go? Yeah,

Christina Miglino King: 43:13

I mean, there's a level of vulnerability when you're with somebody that isn't just a person you're dating temporarily. And what's interesting is I sort of I'm a very authentic person, I think. At least I always try for that. But I have such a deep spirit and such a big heart and I'm such an empath that it hurts. It's physically painful to be this person in the world. And so to not have something else that's like a business or to not have something so big, to not have hundreds of people that I'm trying to split myself into hundreds of parts to be there for and have one person. It's a lot. And to be honest, I get why Lee was like, whoa, dude, I think that's a really healthy response. And to be at the beginning of the relationship. Yeah. And to be fair, I'm also a I know myself better now. I'm older. I'm not in my 20s where I just give everything to the person I'm with or, you know, make them my whole world. It's not that. I did happen to have a lot of space for them, which was really beautiful. But that also created like these deep conversations and these levels of trust that if I was in my business, I can tell you right now, even if we met and started dating, that journey, who knows what would have happened because this relationship deserves more.

Speaker 05: 44:41

And

Christina Miglino King: 44:42

I don't know if I would have known that. had I had my heart split in a million places. Yeah. If that makes sense, you know, it's like.

Jessica: 44:50

It does. It does to me.

Melissa : 44:52

It's very resonant. I'm currently in a season, well, I kind of always am, where my heart is given to a lot, a lot of people. And so it really, it really lands. And I think one of the many things that I would love for you to expand on, because through the NOVA, which is the communities that I run, people that come into our community are either let's say on the other side, like where you are right now, right? They've gone through this experience, this dark night of the soul. It's like, I don't want to keep going the way that I have been going. And now they're on a more soul aligned path. Or they're often in the middle. They're usually fucking terrified because the voice of The whisper, the scream inside is getting so loud that they can no longer ignore it, right? Like you were saying, I went years past burnout. And that is where I see people a lot of time in the middle of that. And so I know you spoke to this in the stories that you've shared, but what do you say to people? Like if you were in a room full of people that are like, I'm fucking terrified. I feel like my life needs to be dismantled. I don't know what to do. What

Christina Miglino King: 46:07

do you say to them? The only person that you have truly in this life is yourself. So the only person that's worth losing it all for is yourself. And you can't really, I mean, I've gone back and forth so many times, like, should I not close my business? I didn't really have a choice. I had no money left. The last thing I ever wanted to do was be in a place where I couldn't pay the people I loved who were helping me with my business. So fuck that. I think sometimes the leap of faith is really just trusting that you're going to land somewhere. You're going to land somewhere and you might land somewhere completely naked with nothing and you'll learn something from that. It's all learning. And to be honest, I wish I could say that it's only been one time that I've had this huge ego death and, you know, lost things. No, for me, and I think it's different for everyone, I have done this multiple times in this life and it is terrifying and hurts every time. And there's nowhere else to go at a certain point. What I know will happen is if I keep doing the thing and I'm burning out, it will become bigger. I will put my body through more. I'm still figuring out health issues that are from me ignoring that part long enough. And that's true. If you're going through hell, keep going. Like, just keep going. Everything changes.

Melissa : 47:30

Well, you're speaking to the word trust, and that has kind of been a thread through so much of this conversation, trust. And when you're going through health, trust is the hardest thing. Do you feel like it's gotten, I mean, there's almost like a benefit to going through it multiple times because you're like, okay, this sucks. It's painful. It's awful. And has that trust muscle been built up? Do you notice that when you went through it this past time, having gone through it in different iterations before, that even when it sucked, you still had that trust that like I don't know how this is gonna go but I at least trust that I'm gonna land somewhere I

Christina Miglino King: 48:05

mean I wish I could say that like every second I felt that way no that'd be delusional I mean it really is it vacillates and sometimes I really don't know because the trust builds from you feeling like you don't know and then the universe is like do you want to fall in love instead okay fuck what that's what I'm expected to do now what the hell you know but but Lee but Lee Lee didn't say no to me either. And Lee didn't leave. And I was not in a super stable place. And for like a Virgo earthy person to be like, oh, sure, a person who's leaving their business, losing their house, doesn't know how they're going to make money. That is a risk. I mean, granted, you're older than me. You own this house. You have what you need to feel somewhat secure on your own. But today we live in a tough economy. Like if you have a partner, you're so lucky because it's two of you trying to make ends meet and make shit happen you know it's tough out there and so i don't know i don't know is the answer i don't know if it gets easier you know what i mean it's almost like the thing gets harder but the payoff gets even bigger which is wild

Melissa : 49:17

that's resonant what's like deeper levels of letting go it's like shedding these bigger and bigger layers each time around and the more you land on your feet the more and i get it for sure in the middle of You're like, I don't trust any of this shit. This is terrible. Where is this going? Please show me the answers. But I love just seeing even having you be on here before where you are now and just the real, raw honesty of the process. Right. And for both of you, of course, no, it wasn't easy. But look what becomes possible. Look what we can create when we go to those places within ourselves.

Jessica: 49:55

I'd love Lee to answer it as well, because you have also taken a lot of risks to be who you are. So for those listening who are in the fear of really stepping out in their truth and their authenticity, what would you say for them?

Lee King: 50:10

I'm in recovery. So I had 30 years of active addiction. I got sober in 2018, clean and sober. So it really is one day at a time, sometimes one minute. at a time. If you can, hold on. You don't know what's around that corner. You really don't. And even before meeting Christina and before doing drag, I attempted suicide. I did not want to enter into 2023. I had no plans. I am a failed suicide attempt. And I would not have what I have today if If I had succeeded. And I know for some people that is the answer. They just can't do it anymore. And that's valid. But you don't really know what is around that corner. You don't know the future. You can't predict it. And if you can just get through the hard points, it does get easier. It really does. And acceptance. Acceptance of some things. Holding on to something forever and holding anger and resentment eats at you. If you're capable of forgive yourself first and then forgive others, that's huge to be happy. And I'm bad. I can hold a grudge. I can hold a grudge bad. But I realize now this is not good for me and I need to let it go. Even if I have to do, like you said, a death of something, an ego death. For me, it's sports. I got drag. I got an amazing wife. But this year, my athletic career has changed due to being trans, non-binary. I am one of those people that has been kind of pushed out. We had a meeting recently, and hopefully that will change. But seeing how people reacted to me being myself and And finding out the truth has changed it for me, where do I want to put myself in that situation? I want to put her in that situation where we go to games. Maybe not, but it's also, I keep saying the word okay. That's the thing. If that does change for me, I have other things. So my life isn't built around one aspect of life, sports, which it was, just like it's not. just drag so if you can expand your life and meet different people and do different things that also is helpful but just hold on work through the tough moments ask which is so hard for help even if it's just sitting in a room Yeah. The only drag show I have been to was

Jessica: 53:15

with Christina in Palm Springs. Yeah. And it was one of the most joyous experiences of my life. I was floored by how special it was. And I just wanted to thank you both for being here and being so honest and vulnerable and sharing your story, but also for turning that hardship and that pain and your own struggle towards authenticity and self-love and turning it into a gift. For people, you really bring and spread so much joy. And I just have a lot of gratitude for you both and how much you give of yourselves and have been taking a stand for so many people who aren't being given a voice. So thank you. Such

Melissa : 54:03

an honor to get to reconnect with you, Christina. Beautiful to spend time with you. And Leigh, so wonderful to meet you. Thank you for being here.

Christina Miglino King: 54:10

Thank you for having us. Yeah, it's been a beautiful experience to get to talk with you guys.

Jessica: 54:18

I'm just so happy for you and your love. Love you. Love you so much. See

Lee King: 54:25

you at the wedding.