Season 2 Finale: Somersaults, Piercings & Other Forms of Spiritual Growth

What starts as a rapid-fire game (chaotic snacks, loud walking, haunted-house ghosts with a sense of humour) opens into a deeper conversation about growth, marriage, leadership, friendship, and the kind of self-honesty that Inner Rebel is known for. 

Melissa reflects on a season of big transition — shedding what no longer fits, learning to lead without abandoning her softness, healing long-held stories about intimacy, and discovering what it actually means to be fully seen by the people who matter most. Jess shares her own edges: new love, new levels of honesty, and the uncomfortable beauty of letting someone mirror the parts of you you’ve tried to hide.

It’s a finale filled with levity, tenderness, permission slips, personal revelations, fake poop pranks, inner toddlers having meltdowns, creative pivots, and an unexpected amount of wisdom about what it means to grow up spiritually, relationally, and professionally — without losing the joy or the weird.

IN THIS EPISODE:

• Rapid-fire questions: chaotic snacks, ghost pranks, musical bed routines
• The levity we forget to bring into our personal growth
• Learning to be a CEO without burning out or living in chaos
• The difference between implosions and proactive change
• Intimacy in long-term partnership: taking walls down after years of defense
• Religious conditioning, belonging, and being the “black sheep” in your family
• Honesty, mirroring, and being deeply seen in relationship
• Visibility, vulnerability, and sharing publicly 
• Tiny things that shift everything (ear piercings, rituals, play)
• Parenting, silliness, and the parts of us only our families see
• Why fun and levity matter in deep work and leadership
• What we learned this season — and our vision for Season 3
• Our “Snoop Dogg acceptance speeches” and the art of self-celebration

Transcript

Jessica: Something you've been told in your life

Melissa: So many times

Jess: You're so loud.

I love how loud

you are.

Melissa: heel striker. I forget who it was. One of my friends was like do you always walk with your heel striking first? And I was like, yeah, that's my walk man. Like I get it. It's loud.

Jess: I need to meet you. Just so I can watch you walk

loud.

Melissa: Be loud with

me. I sleep loud, I walk loud, I talk loud.

Jessica: I'll be loud with you.

Melissa: All right. 

Jessica: How are you

Melissa: I'm, I feel like I should be exploding, but I'm okay

Jessica (2): funny, 

One of the questions I was gonna ask is if you did this entire podcast in sound effects, what would it be? And I.

Melissa: The other day I was like, we were talking about what would be the soundtrack of your life right now I just put lip gloss on. So this is gonna be a sticky example, but I was like, I don't know who wrote this one.

But it sounds a little bit like

Jessica: Yeah, I feel you. So if, if that's how you wanna do [00:01:00] today, we can, we can do it.

Melissa: Just in sounds Yeah.

I know we're already recording, but it sounds like you have an idea already and 

Jessica: I just made a decision. You're so cute. Going into

Melissa: I got this real cute shirt,

Jessica: It's so 

Melissa: It's like a cute.

little barley like pullover jacket.

Jessica: very cute. 

Melissa: It's part of my 

Poshmark Habit.

Jessica: we're both sort of 

Half turtle necking today.

Melissa: So you made a decision that what you're gonna rapid fire and I,

Jessica: yeah, I'm gonna rapid fire you questions I mean, you can do anything you want, 

Melissa: great. Do you already have your questions written

down? 

Jess: like 10 minutes ago I feel like our audience is tired of us being so deep and I think we need some levity.

Melissa: well I am great at levity, so,

Jess: we're gonna do levity and deep. We're gonna do both, but I'm gonna ask you questions that I've never asked you before that I think everyone would wanna know, and you can tell me what you want today to be and it'll be a, a mashup,

Melissa: oh, I'm gonna 

ask. Yeah, I have to figure this out in 

Jessica: three 

Jess: How about Use your [00:02:00] brain and

your creativity 

Melissa: Well, I could do that, but 

Jessica: not three 

seconds.

Melissa: Let me just see. Oh, these are fun. Hmm. Okay.

Jessica: okay. 

Melissa: weird. Some of them. Some of them are weird. Okay.

Jessica: these questions, are you copying my idea?

Melissa: Yeah. I'm gonna rapid fire to you

Jessica: Okay. I mean, this could be a variety show. You can come up with your own creative segment, okay.

Melissa: This is the dumbest question. What? I don't even know what this means. What's your most chaotic snack combo that actually 

Jess: slaps?

I could answer 

Melissa: What does snaps mean?

Jessica: don't slaps slaps 

It's, it's, it slaps. Um, I are we beginning? ' 'cause I have a pickle fetish. 

So, 

Melissa: my god.

Jessica: so my favorite thing to do is take a pickle spear and put a [00:03:00] slice of cheese. I got this from Instagram. You get a slice of cheese and you put it on a pan and crisp it up and roll it around the pickle.

So it's like a crispy, cheesy pickle.

Melissa: Okay.

That does, that does slap as they 

say 

Jessica: it's a little chaotic, but I love it.

Melissa: I, a cheesy pickle fetish. 

Jessica: I 

Melissa: did not see that coming. I thought that was the weirdest question, but we will go with

Jessica: yeah, if you ask me a food question, I'll have an answer, but does this mean we've started? Should I just first check in on, on how you are, how are you today? And we've just 

Melissa: I'm fine. 

Jessica: you know,

this is our season finale.

See how you're feeling about that and then we can go back to the rapid fire.

Melissa: So, I don't know, I am 

Jessica: I'm complete. 

Melissa: that's a sound, for the what I'm holding. there are so much happening at all times. I feel like I've been on a like a sprinter's pace, doing 

Jessica: a 

Melissa: marathon

at [00:04:00] least for the last two months.

Straight, a little, maybe like nine weeks. And there's so much transition happening in my life I feel like there is, um, a cleaning out happening, like an intentional clean out happening in our personal life, in the business getting a really 

solid foundation. And it's like anything that is not a part of that is almost like rapidly 

going

away. And so it's been, like I'm actually doing okay. I think because I've been. Doing a lot of work for about 10 years on my inner landscape. And also I just, I think entrepreneurship is the greatest teacher of how to handle kind of perpetual change and to not be attached to things and just to pivot like this all the time.

And so like people are like, how are you? Even those that are really close to me in the business are like, how you doing? Are you [00:05:00] sure you're okay? And I'm like, weirdly, I am. I don't know, but 

it's 

so, it's been a lot.

Jessica: I actually think you have a strong foundation. I think that inner landscape is that foundation and what you're describing to me sounds like the process of growth, that when we're growing we have to weed out the things that don't come with us to the next level.

Like that is what evolution is about. Some things have a through line and other parts were like, Hmm, you served a time and now to get to, you know, the next level of expansion, that doesn't feel a part of it anymore. 

Melissa: Yeah, 

Jessica: yeah, 

Melissa: and I think so often in our lives, like we've talked about this, of like massive life implosions and things that have to go wrong in order to get people to change. And I 

think 

what 

I, what I 

have to be a master at or get to learn to be a master at is proactive change. So I have to be able to see ahead of like before things are like [00:06:00] crazy, you know, I have to be able to make decisions ahead of time.

Drive the ship. Like I'm learning how to be a CEO. I think we've talked about this before, but I'm like learning how to really be a 

CEO and. I don't know. There's a part of me that feels weird even saying those letters, but I think that it's really being able to be decisive and proactive and intentional and make sure that the people and the systems and the things are in place to support what we want.

Because we can't grow in the way that any of us wanna grow, especially me, in a sustainable, intentional manner. If the backend systems are crazy or if I'm stressed out all the time and I can't be doing my zone of genius, I'm like drowning in ops, in tech. It's like, that's not good. So I think 

Jessica: part 

of 

Melissa: why 

I've been feeling so good is 'cause I feel like I'm really taking the reins and I'm making really smart decisions.

And they're not easy, but they need to be done. And so I think it just feels good to be like taking care of the baby, you [00:07:00] know?

Jess: I'm so proud of you you. You know, If I mirror back what I've seen in you over the last year, or no, like couple years of doing this, I have seen you land in yourself and in your leadership so deeply.

And I think that shows up also on the podcast in the way that you host and interview. Like, I just see you so much more comfortable in your skin and yeah, there's just a different level of embodiment.

Melissa: Hmm.

Jessica: Mm-hmm.

Melissa: Thanks girl.

Jessica: even if it feels chaotic. It's not like it, it is.

Life is chaos. But yeah, that, that's just life. And if you have that stability and you are,, grounded in who you are, then you will be able to handle it. And that's why you're doing this.

Melissa: Yeah. 

It's so wild. It's just wild. It's wild. It's just wild. It's wild. Like wrapping a pickle and cheese and toasting it, it's like that kind wild, you know,[00:08:00]

Jessica: but it's so delicious. 

Melissa: it's like a delicious cheesy pickle. Wild.

Jessica: Oh 

well thank you. Thank you for sharing. 

Melissa: But we aren't supposed 

Jessica: heavy 

Melissa: today, so I

gotta 

Jessica: heavy. That's just life 

Melissa: oh, I feel like my ponytail is kind of helping with the levity. It felt like a little bit like, hi.

Jessica: Okay. Well thank you for updating me. I would love to use today. I still think there is so much that the world should know about you that we would probably never come across on the podcast if we just stay so deep all the time.

So, some of these questions, I'm gonna rapid fire you some questions. This was my, my Life choice about 15 minutes before we came on. I made this decision that I wanna do this, and so I wrote some questions down that I wanna know about you. Some of them have to do with you, some of them might have to do with me too, but you have like, 20 seconds max to answer. You have to just 

Melissa: Oh, I'm a. [00:09:00]

Jessica: That's okay. And I will have a couple deep questions in there just to round it out, because let's be honest about who we are, but you know, it's all over the map. Okay.

Melissa: This is maybe the first time I've been really like kind of nervous.

Jessica: Yay. Okay. 

Okay. 

You ready? So, if this year was a coming of age movie about you, what would the title be? And who would play you and why would she be wrong for the part?

Melissa: What on earth and you 

have 

20 

seconds 

to, of course you gimme a seven parter out of the gates. 

Jessica: What 

the 

hell? 

Okay. 

Melissa: Who, what would the movie be called? Who would play me? And why would she be 

wrong for the 

Jessica: Yeah. 

Okay. 

Well, I 

Melissa: might not answer you completely directly. Oh my God.

Jessica: Proud of that one.

Melissa: Yeah. That's not what is your favorite chaotic snack?

Well, 

Jessica: I 

immediately 

Melissa: thought Amy 

Poer would play 

Jessica: Yeah, 

Melissa: And I don't know that she's [00:10:00] wrong for the

Jessica: no, she's right for the part. I know how you 

Melissa: the part. 

Jessica: Amy.

I 

love Amy 

Melissa: Poer, 

Jessica: Yeah, that's very accurate. That 

is 

Melissa: I think I've had, like I say this, it's kind of a hot brag, but many people have told me that I remind them of Amy Poehler, and I'm like,

Jessica: Good.

Melissa: thank you.

Jessica: Yeah. We love you, Amy, if you're listening.

Melissa: yeah, you're gonna be on our podcast one day. so that's why I don't wanna say they would be wrong for the part, but I think she would be right for the part. because I just love her sense of humor and the depth of her friendships. And I'm obsessed with her podcast. I mean, I've always loved Amy Pohler

even before she had a 

podcast. But I love, the way she centers in community and how she prioritizes like comedy and laughter and joy in her life. Like I, I mean that's just, that's how I love 

Jessica: my life. 

Melissa: So, okay.

Jessica: okay.

That's part 

of 

that. Mm-hmm. 

Melissa: What would it 

be called? 

What the 

fuck 

is going on here?

Jessica: Good. 

Melissa: who's in charge of this 

Jessica: anyway? 

Melissa: Who, who made me the boss of this? And how do I become a child again? [00:11:00] I don't know. What would be the title?

Jessica: that was perfect.

thought this was 

a 

good idea?

we're moving on. It's rapid fire. We have to move on. Okay. What's one opinion you had at the start of this season that now makes you cringe?

Melissa: Oh,

Jessica: Oh, there's an answer.

Melissa: yeah. Uh, the, 

Jessica: Uh. 

Melissa: judgment that I had around my husband.

Jessica: Mm,

Melissa: Mm-hmm.

Jessica: I love that. And you feel that shifted?

Melissa: Mm-hmm.

Jessica: Good.

Melissa: Yeah,

Jessica (2): Okay. If there was a blooper reel of your personal growth this year, what would've been the funniest scene? 

Melissa: didn't like shit my pants or anything, so that's fortunate. Oh my god, these are hard questions. Funniest personal growth this year? Oh, Jess. I don't know if it's funny, but I remember like a proper temper 

tantrum that I had in my [00:12:00] office. 

Jessica: Of

Melissa: Of just like throwing down like a little tiny toddler losing her shit. And it makes me laugh now 'cause I just, I'm like imagining like a, like a little kid that you're like, you make them wear pants and they wanna wear shorts and then they lose their absolute shit about it.

Like, I feel like it was like that level of just like, I don't even remember what was happening at the time, but I just remember not wanting the thing that was happening to be happening, 

Jessica: just like

and your inner toddler came out

Melissa: refusal to accept it at any level at all. And I have this furry rug in my office and I was just like laying in my furry rug, like, ah, you know, like, like a turtle tipped over on its back.

Jessica: Well, I'm sure it wasn't funny at the time, but 

it, the image, the image is very funny. So 

Melissa: yeah, just just the level to which I can go unhinged and then in, you know, an hour or less than a day, I'm like back on the track, but it's just like sometimes, whew.

Jessica: Well, I, kind of like that you just said that. Let that be a permission slip [00:13:00] to everyone, that it's okay to have 

many tantrums in your office. 

Um, okay. This is a serious one, but I'm gonna give you like four words to answer it. What is the biggest learning curve you're in the middle of right now?

In four words.

Melissa: How to 

Jessica: be 

a 

CEO.

Good.

That's 

fine. words.

That's good. You could have said to be a CEO, that would've been four.

Melissa: to be CEO? No. Uh.

Jessica: Okay. What did you learn about me this season that you didn't know before? And be gentle, but also tell the truth because it's our finale.

Melissa: Well, I wouldn't be mean to you. I just, I feel like I learned about your ability to 

love 

and Yeah. Like I just, I think my favorite thing has been your relationship and you like really learning how to be in a relationship in a totally new way. Like, this man makes you that happy, you're gonna leave [00:14:00] la.

Like, that's a big testament. 

Jessica: And so

Melissa: I

think, 

yeah, I got to know your heart in a deeper way. I, I, you always showed your heart, but 

it was, 

Jessica: was 

Melissa: traumatized 

before.

I gotta know your heal your healed heart, 

Jessica: oh, that is the sweetest answer. I love that answer. Thank you. 

I appreciate that. Uh, okay. we learned a lot about visibility this season and how vulnerable it is. What moment did you think, oh God, why am I saying this on a microphone?

Melissa: I 

dunno if there's a moment, Jess.

Jessica: I think you're

really good 

at this because I, 

think 

Melissa: yeah.

Jessica: much, just, being in spaces where you learn to be vulnerable in yourself. So I

think you've built that muscle.

Melissa: I think there's some things maybe around like my family 

Jessica: origin,

Mm-hmm. 

Melissa: which, you know, I don't think they listen to this podcast, but there have been moments where I've shared things that I [00:15:00] think felt edgy for me. 'cause I'm always aware and protective of 

them. But I, there's also a part of my journey that's

gets 

to share a little bit about that.

You know, maybe about, I don't wanna call it religious trauma, but like, my journey of healing around organized religion. And I think maybe some things about maybe my parents telling me I'm still going to hell, those things.

Jessica: t small trauma,

Melissa: little tea just burning in hell. I think exposing some of that felt really edgy for me because I don't ever wanna hurt them, but I also feel like 

Jessica: important to share 

Yeah. I feel that there is a very interesting line that you have to dance when you start doing work like this in a more public way.

And you're here to bring forth your authenticity and your vulnerability and you have to dance because your life is tied into the life of other people and it's not your job to share. [00:16:00] Or expose them. But sometimes there's, there's so much learning that we've done and it is a hard Line to walk.

So I think you've done it very elegantly personally.

Melissa: I also feel like you have gotten like some of the more major on the spotsy have belonged to you.

Jessica: they do that to me

Melissa: Yeah. Like you, yeah. I feel like that's sort of your role on the podcast is like, Jess, do you think we could dissect your soul real quick in public right now and get, take you to the most uncomfortable edges of your soul?

And you're like, okay.

Jessica: It's true. I don't, I don't really get it.

Melissa: Yeah, 

Jessica: I'm gonna redirect it next time. I'll be like, Melissa wants a chance.

Melissa: What is, I wanna ask you the question, what's the edgiest thing that you've 

Jessica: had to 

do 

on this podcast?

Ooh, I don't think it was this year. I think it was.

Melissa: Atara.

Jessica: it might have been Atarah. Uh, Yeah.

That, that may have been it. Looking at my dating stuff at the time, I [00:17:00] definitely processed a lot of grief out loud in season one. And I, I was open and vulnerable. There was like a different kind of, vulnerability this time because I am navigating sort of a new chapter and it does obviously involve someone else.

And I want to be sharing all of my love and all of that experience. And he is so private and I respect his privacy, but he's very, very private. So I've had to figure out how to share it without, betraying his comfort zone. 

Melissa: Yeah. I mean, John is too. He is so private, you know?

Jessica: Yeah. So there's just different theme going on right now, but even this season,

I think even just talking about in the human design episode about my edges of visibility, like that alone feels very vulnerable to me. Just sharing those personal things just the things that I am working through in my own life,

I don't talk to that many people in general about my internal process, and I like bring it here quite a bit. So, [00:18:00] so I do get little vulnerability hangovers sometimes, but 

Melissa: Yeah, I can see that.

Jessica: What is one tiny mundane thing that changed your life this year?

Like, very tiny, but shifted everything.

Melissa: Very tiny. Getting 

my ears pierced.

Jessica: Did you not have them pierced? Because I, I don't have my ears pierced. I'm like the only one I thought, no, Did you not? or you got them re pierced?

Melissa: I have a 

lot of 

piercings. So you said tiny, so this feels like such a micro thing, but for my birthday I went into this piercing place and I was like, I want a piercing. And I don't know where. No, I got this one. I actually have a lot. 

So I 

Jessica: got this 

Melissa: cool little bar.

Jessica: Cool.

Melissa: And I had second holes and I actually had these too.

I had two up appear and I had this one, but I hadn't worn any 

Jessica: earrings 

Melissa: in any hole except my, my bottom one for like 10 years. And it was like this moment of I wanna be self expressed, [00:19:00] bring back my earrings. It felt like so funny 'cause I was there for like an hour and a half and I was like, I wanna just play and help me, style me.

And I was like, are these holes even open? Like, what do 

we 

do? 

And 

I've just 

like,

It's so 

little. 

but I felt alive it was like a moment of reclamation of like, this part of me that had had all these piercings is a little, not a little girl college. And 

just 

Jessica: like 

having more 

fun with 

Melissa: my expression and if anybody hears this, in our favorite things party. Sorry, I'm blowing it right now, but we do a favorite things 

party with my girlfriends for, our Christmas party. I'm gonna get everybody a gift card to get their ears pierced and we're gonna go on a piercing 

party together.

to just 

Jessica: I love that..

Melissa: What Would you buy if you had to 

give a 

favorite 

things gift, what would a hundred dollars, you get three of 

Jessica: and 

then 

we all 

get three gifts it's a hundred dollars of something. That is my favorite things that I would give to someone else.

Your favorite thing?

Oh, Um, a box of hot sauce. [00:20:00] Don't 

Melissa: Oh 

Jessica: me that way.

Melissa: Maybe. I'm glad we

Jessica: No. Uh, I 

don't know. I'd have to think about this. Give me the episode to think about this. 

Melissa: You asked me about the craziest shit and you were like, go rapid fire, huh? What's the meaning of life and when is the best 12 times that you've 

Jessica: today. Thank you. My favorite things are food related. It would be something food related, so that 

Melissa: It could be a gift card to your favorite 

restaurant. You could hire a chef and do like maybe a private

party for people and bring three of them to your 

Jessica: there you go. That sounds amazing. I didn't know I could get that creative. I thought I had to go to like, the 

Melissa: do anything you want. I had to go to the mall, think I had to go to Claire's to get a piercing.

Jessica: Okay. Just a couple more. And then, and then you're out of the hot seat. If someone followed you around for a full day with no context, what moment would make them think? Is she okay?

Melissa: Uh, probably most of my interactions with Jack, because I may, 'cause I make up songs about [00:21:00]everything. Like the other day I made up a song about my butt cheeks chasing him around. And it was like a whole animated film. And 

he was like, 

you're so weird. And I'm like, well, you are just like me.

So. Good luck to you. so it'd probably be the random spontaneous moments where I am harassing my child.

Jessica: I was gonna ask as well, like, what is something that shows up behind closed doors that maybe only your family sees that the rest of the world might not see? Would that be the same answer?

Melissa: Yeah. I don't know that the rest of the world doesn't see that though. Like my friends know I'm super weird. And they might not hear a lot of my songs though. , I'm not like a karaoke person and if you were like, sing me your favorite song right now, I'd probably wouldn't wanna do it.

But I sing all day long and I make up songs all day long and everything is a Saturday Night Live skit also. So, um, yeah, 

Jessica: the 

rest 

Melissa: of the world might not get to see that.[00:22:00]

Jessica: if you had to be haunted by a ghost, but you could choose the vibe of the ghost,

what would you pick?

Melissa: I would pick like

like a ghost that does funny pranks 

Jessica: just 

like, 

fuck 

with people.

that was the easiest one for you to answer. You're like, I know the ghost

Melissa: I know the 

girls, he would do all the crazy things that I wanna do that people would see, but he could do it. Like we have like a tiny, fake poop in our house that we gave Jack for Christmas, and it's currently been living on our kitchen counter for quite some time now and we don't even 

notice it. John and Jack and I, we just like rotate it and hide it in different places. So you'll like climb into your bed at night and there'll just be this like giant fake poop pile in your bed.

Jessica: I wanna live in your house.

Melissa: I want the ghost to do like that level of like nothing harmful, nothing 

traumatizing, but 

just 

like 

funny pranks. the ghost? 

No,

Jessica: Okay.

Melissa: I don't have a name for the ghost.

Jessica: Okay, la

last, here's the last question. We're gonna get serious now. This is where we get deep.[00:23:00]

Melissa: Oh God,

Jessica: What part of yourself are you finally ready to let be seen that you've been protecting your whole life?

Melissa: what a transition. The ghost that puts poop in the bed and now this, 

Jessica: Welcome to Inner Rebel,

Melissa: you never know where the conversation will take you. What part of me? I mean, I'm sure it has to do with more of 

my 

marriage 

than 

Jessica: anything

Hmm.

Tell me why. I know this is a big theme in your life, so tell me what it is that you're learning this year about you relationally in this 

respect. There,

Melissa: yeah, there is a theme emerging actually around

men and the Nova and like Nova becoming like at some point a co-ed 

thing 

and 

it just coming up 

and I'm like, what the fuck? So I feel like there is something that is shifting around owned, 

I don't [00:24:00] know if I know how to name it, so I'm just gonna be a little messy in this, but something around depth in relationship with men, which is not something I've actually struggled with friendship wise. I've always had like lots of good guy friends and, but there's some healing happening around a depth with like maybe conscious masculinity 

or 

like that.

'cause I've always had like funny was like a good girlfriend to guy, like, 'cause I'm funny and I'm playful and like, we would just be silly. but I think there's like a deeper level happening with me this year.

Jessica: Do you think you had a story about men in the past that's shifting? 

Melissa: I'm sure, yeah, of course I've had stories around men, 

but 

it's 

not like I had a lot of relational wounding with men. I had like great managers that were men. I had great coworkers that were men, like some of my favorite humans, amazing guy friends. But there's something around like this is all unfolding literally in this last [00:25:00] week or two.

So that's why this is really unflushed. But

Jessica: something

Melissa: around my interest in almost like healing 

Jessica: men. 

Melissa: men,

and creating spaces for them to access the same level of things that like I'm accessing as a woman inside a women's group. So I don't know if there's just been so much that I've 

Jessica: with 

Melissa: women only. That now, maybe that ripple effect is wanting to expand beyond 

Jessica: Mm-hmm. We had very few men on in this season. I think we only had one man in this last season. And

Yeah. 

And I think it would be nice next season to bring in a few more.

Melissa: Yeah. I don't know if that was a very good answer to your question. It felt like really all over the place, but

Jessica: it's, it's the honest answer. It felt clear to me

Melissa: intimacy with men. Well, and I think, I think it's intimacy and intimacy is not always sexual, but I think that what I've 

Jessica: been 

Melissa: learning through years of couples therapy, and it's less of like a men in general.

I think it's [00:26:00] more of the healing journey that my husband and I have 

been on 

that is amplifying this specifically of like how do I be less guarded and how do I take walls down that I have systematically built back 

up and How do I 

Jessica: judgment and 

Melissa: things 

Jessica: that?

Yeah, there's this number in, in human design that when I think about intimacy, I think about it in connection with this number. It's Gate 59 and it's the gift of intimacy, but the highest expression is transparency.

Like to become truly authentic, to be truly honest about who we are, it actually has to be done relationally,

right? Because it's through intimacy that all our triggers come up, that we are forced to confront the parts of ourselves that we don't like. It forces us to be honest, if we lean into it. So it can be very, very scary.

Melissa: Mm-hmm.

Jessica: You know, I really do see our partners as our teachers. They're really there to be those mirrors of, what is in the way of us being truly [00:27:00] ourselves.

Melissa: Yeah. And I think I have such a story, and this is part of why I created Nova and the way I created it, of like, if you see me, 

you're not gonna 

love 

me. And I've worked on that in a million different ways. And that was 

one 

of 

my biggest 

stories with him is like, 'cause I've changed a lot and it's like, if you really knew me, like I let my girlfriends know me.

Jessica: it's different, 

Melissa: right? Because it's, it's intimacy at a totally different level. But

like, will you still love me or maybe love me even more because of who I really 

am? And 

Jessica: not,

Melissa: I think that's why I went into hiding, 

you know, because, he's not going to, and I can't show him this, and so I think it's, for me, it's 

been easier 

to establish a sense of self with strangers 

that have become 

friends, than the people 

Jessica: been 

Melissa: been close to you all along that are like, who the fuck are you 

Jessica: well, that makes, it makes so much sense.

Even in what you just spoke to earlier about [00:28:00] religious trauma, there's been a thread in your life where you were the black sheep, where you were really different from everyone else. and that is a very scary thing to kind of, in a way come out of the closet like, I don't believe the same things as you.

Are you gonna still love me? There's so much tied into our fear of not belonging,

Melissa: Mm-hmm.

Jessica: so it makes sense to me that that would be a thread that then shows up in our most intimate relationships.

Melissa: Yeah. 

what's one thread that you are really 

Jessica: rewriting relationship?

One thread that I'm rewriting in my relationship, just in general, like a general thread of myself.

Melissa: Mm-hmm.

Jessica: Okay. Um, there's a lot. I have never been with such a mirror before, like we are so we are different, but we're so similar in a lot of ways. We're both very sensitive, [00:29:00] astute. Like he is the most energetically sensitive human I've ever met. So when I shift emotionally, he picks up on it.

Before I'm even aware that it's happened in myself. And I have noticed how hard it is for me to be honest because the pattern is in place. That I negate my needs and I suppress my feelings in order to make other people comfortable. I'm not used to being like, I do feel this big thing, or I do have this kind of reaction, I'm just so used to kind of shoving that down and saying everything's fine.

And he doesn't let me get away with that. and he's so loving,, I'm just the most 

Aware.

Jessica: i've ever been 

of 

Jessica: my own patterning 

and um.

it's giving me the opportunity to have a new level of honesty with myself. 

Jessica: but it,

It is also beautiful to have a partner in that, and that feels

Melissa: I love that. 

Jessica: really, nice. Yeah.

I feel 

like 

I have 

some 

rapid 

fire 

questions [00:30:00] for 

you.

Okay. Go for it.

Melissa: Um, is there a very specific 

human 

design 

that 

Jessica: you're like, 

is your 

favorite 

person 

to 

hang 

out 

with

Oh yeah. Yeah.

Melissa: and why? Is it me? I'm just kidding.

Jessica: It's you. there a favorite? I actually 

Melissa: Like if you're like it's a generator with a four, three with a this, that 

you're like the type of 

person that you're 

like, this 

person 

is 

so 

fun to hang out with. You don't have to like name her or

Jessica: no, I mean, Jeremy's my favorite person to hang out with, so his, but, but I think if there's like thematic, like I just notice who surrounds me. I actually really enjoy martyrs like you, 'cause I need to be brought out of my comfort zone.

And martyrs are experiential and you just kind of like impulsively do things and being around people who don't take no an answer and just jump into experience is very, [00:31:00] uh, fun and liberating for me and teaches me 

a lot. So

Melissa: I love it. 

Jessica: might be it.

Melissa: Well, okay, so let's pretend tomorrow human design goes away and you can no longer use it ever

again. What tool would you use instead? What's your second favorite tool 

Jessica: to 

understand?

Uh, just human behavior. Like, I don't think. I don't think it needs to be human design. I think there's just a code of behavior that I see people living all the time, and I think that's enough there's so many archetypes playing in the world.

There's so many patterns. I see. I think I just see the themes running through humanity very clearly, and I would probably just find a new language for that.

I think 

Melissa: an astrologist.

Jessica: I'd probably just come up with a, a whole new, a whole new 

one. 

Melissa: make up your own. 

Jessica: Maybe. 

I think, I [00:32:00] think I'm done. Like, regurgitating other people's ideas.

Melissa: hmm. 

Yeah, 

that makes sense. 

Um, 

what 

do 

you look like without bangs?

Jessica: have you. Yeah, I can show you a photo. I, I, uh, it's so funny 'cause even, even my childhood pictures are like me with bangs and somebody sent me like a note \ on or maybe it was my friend saying something about finding my signature haircut at like five years old. Oh my God. Here, 

this is saw 

baby 

picture. That's 

the 

only no, I do have one. I do have one. I know I do.

I was 

just hoping you go like this. 

Melissa: you'd go like this

Jessica: No, 

Melissa: and hold your bangs up right

Jessica: I can't, I can't trust what my forehead looks like right now.

Melissa: Why, what's in there? What you have growing 

on your forehead. Let's see it. [00:33:00]

Oh, you'd 

Jessica: being, 

Melissa: without bangs.

Jessica: to get rid of my bangs? Wear

a high I do, I do go to, like, I go to the gym like this.

Melissa: Yeah. It's nice to see your old face.

Jessica: like I, I do, like I have a headband and I, I work out . 

Melissa: Um, what is this is, this is me on plan. You wanted me to just

do it unplanned. 

Jessica: I love it. 

Melissa: I'm curious if there are any weird trends that you're currently following that are like current 

Jessica: oh my God, no. I don't even know what, I couldn't even tell you what a trend is. 

Melissa: Oh, I am weird, trendy words that 

Jessica: people are 

saying 

that you 6, 7, that's all I know. I, no, I, I don't, I'm, I feel like just reached the point where I understand what the adults in my. Life growing up used to say like, I never thought I would actually be out of touch with the younger generation.

I didn't think that would ever, I am, I'm hip, I'm with it. I'm like, plugged in. And 

[00:34:00] now 

Melissa: hip. 

Jessica: You're not, 

you're not. 

You just, 

Melissa: just,

Jessica: I'm cutting that out,

Melissa: no, you're not. You're not 

in just hip with bangs and without 'em, hip with or pickle and without 

Jessica: So I,

Melissa: Oh my God.

Jessica: so I, I finally feel like I'm at that age where I'm like, oh, now I get it. Like, I do not understand what they're talking about. And I do not relate at all. So I don't even know, I mean, I just wear bangs always. 'cause hopefully they're trendy sometimes,

Melissa: It'll always come back around,

so 

Jessica: So

sometimes sometimes it will seem like I'm trendy.

Melissa: Are there any Jessisms that you say, like any sayings things that you're 

Jessica: like doing? 

Melissa: for?

Jessica: Hmm. Uh, I don't think, I don't think I have self-awareness around this. I would have to [00:35:00] ask somebody. I

Melissa: Or is there like a quirky thing that you do? Maybe it's not a saying, but like a thing that they're like, oh, there she goes again.

Jessica: I don't have an actual answer for that. Uh, I am also very weird and very silly and not that many people see that. So if I feel very free and very myself, Yes. 

Melissa: What are you doing? Give us an example.

Jessica: like my weird,

silly, 

Melissa: hypothetically

Jessica: uh, this is, this is not answering your question, but I, uh,

okay. Well, I don't know, this is not answering your question.

This is just a weird thing I, silly thing that only one person knows I do, but, like I have a nightly dance into bed.

Melissa: Can you do it for us

Jessica: Well, it's, it's different every night. Like I mix it up, sometimes it's interpretive, sometimes it's jazz, sometimes it's musical theater, sometimes it's gymnastics so, [00:36:00]

Melissa: I love this. 

Jessica: So there's, what did you do now?

Melissa: gymnastics routine look like when you go

Jessica: Direction. Um, I go, I go like, and then I, and then I somersault on the bed.

Melissa: This is great. Thank you so much for sharing. 

Jessica: there's 

a lot of that in my home.

Melissa: I love that when you 

Jessica: are, 

you, do you, 

also listen 

Melissa: do you all listen 

Jessica: a 

lot of music 

Melissa: in your home?

Jessica: yeah, I used to listen to so much more than I do. 'cause I think I've embraced silence way more than I used to. But there is, I love, I. Stop. I love, I love quiet, but, uh, but I love cooking. I love cooking to music a lot. And I do love, of course, I love a little dance party, but we listen to a lot of Sinatra and I love the Beatles and classic rock.

Like, that's the vibe in our home. Mm-hmm.

Melissa: So if since you love cooking so much, what 

is, let's 

pretend 

you're 

having 

a dinner 

[00:37:00] party 

this 

weekend. 

What are, well, let's pretend it's Thanksgiving, hypothetically speaking, 

Jessica: having dinner. 

Melissa: a dinner party, what is your, what's 

Jessica: is your, what's 

your, 

favorite meal 

Melissa: to cook People?

Jessica: I make an incredible vodka sauce. I can't take full credit for it because I got the recipe from a friend who's a chef, but it's become like my go-to 'cause it's so simple.

It's so easy to do and it's one of those things you feel like you're in a restaurant eating.

So I, I make a really good vodka sauce. I make amazing soups. And really good salads. I'm kind of known for my salads.

Melissa: oh

Jessica: Mm-hmm. Come over, we'll walk loud and eat really yummy food.

Melissa: We'll eat pickles and do somersaults and

eat great 

Jessica: I mean, my, my

pickle snack really didn't sell me as a foodie, but I, I do, I do love food a whole lot. The

Melissa: It's the full 

spectrum. 

That's your inner rubble. 

Foodie. That's like, fuck it. I can make ba 

sauce, Annie. Weird crispy cheese pickles.

Jessica: I'll get really weird with food. I'm [00:38:00] vegetarian, so I, or pescatarian, so I don't eat meat, but like 

Melissa: Did I know. this? I've been vegetarian my whole life.

Jessica: That's a fun fact. 

Melissa: I was pescatarian for 15

Jessica: I didn't know that. 

Yeah. 

I was, yeah. I was raised vegetarian or pescatarian. I was raised, um, that way And. I don't even register meat as, as food, but within the vegetarian spectrum, I love getting very weird. I love trying things that I've never tried, um, as spicy as it can possibly be.

Melissa: Oh, 

Jessica: Mm-hmm.

Melissa: this is fi. I just wanna rapid fire every episode moving forward for 

Jessica: all 

of our 

Melissa: guests.

Jessica: I know, 

this 

is 

so, interview style. This is where I'm really learning how to

Our listeners were like, what is this? 

Melissa: You 

Jessica: am I listening to?

Melissa: were, you're just getting to know us. 

Jessica: Well, we have like four minutes, so make it count.

Melissa: well I'm gonna pivot then.

[00:39:00] So, let's 

Jessica: it's one year 

Melissa: from 

now 

and you are getting me caught up on your life.

Jessica: Why haven't we talked in a year?

Melissa: Okay? But this is a pretend game.

Jessica: That's

so sad. 

Melissa: pretend I all of a 

sudden ghost you 

and 

never talk to you

again. And then, no,

Jessica: sad.

Melissa: what a weird question to end with. No, it just pretend there doesn't have to be drama and we're just catching 

Jessica: Okay, great. 

Melissa: Okay. There there be some, be some plot holes.

Jessica: Okay.

Melissa: Is just, I want you to share what has happened in the last year that you'd like to catch me up on.

Jessica: Oh, well, some things I don't know what my journey's gonna look like. So this, this actually feels maybe too vulnerable. I would, I would love to be a mother

or, or, 

at 

least, 

Melissa: meeting your baby maybe?

Jessica: [00:40:00] or, or I'd like to be on that journey.

You know, I don't know where on that journey, but I would like that to be unfolding

at that point in some way. I might be married, and I am so excited right now I'm in a, creative portal, like I haven't been, in a long time.

I'm feeling really inspired. Right now I'm building a program which I am kind of have wanted to do for years, but never had the download, never had the inspiration, and right now I'm in this like really exciting bubble with it and it's just happening. So I would love more of that, like just to feel really creatively fulfilled.

I think, yeah, just kind of grow into the next level of my life. Like I'm very, very excited to build this kind of legacy with my [00:41:00] partner. My legacy is a big word, but I feel like there's something so sacred and beautiful about this next chapter, and when I think about having a family with him and the dreams that we talk about that just, it really, really excites me to do that with him.

So, yeah. And I don't know how long things will take, but between that and just being in the next level of my own purpose would feel amazing.

Melissa: I am gonna like meet 

you At wedding 

while holding your baby. Mo, mommy. That's 

Jessica: what 

they call 

Melissa: me in the neighborhood. 

Mo mommy will come and snag your

baby. 

Jessica: so cute.

Melissa: Isn't it cute? 

Jack's little best bud started it like years ago. I think they were like three there's even like one of my friends, 

Jessica: like 

dad, 

Melissa: dad, he always, that's why he calls me, he is always like, Mo mommy da dah.

Like, he's just so used to me being,

Jessica: It's better than my nickname. I'm kaka.

Melissa: oh, What does that even mean?

I had a friend that was [00:42:00] Gcca, kaka and Gcca. 

Jessica: mom, mommy is adorable. I love it.

Mom's excited 

for future 

Melissa: Jess. 

And 

I'm 

so 

sorry that we're not gonna be able to talk for the next year,

Jessica: well well I, cause we're wrapping up the season. I know we have to wrap up this call, but. If you were to just reflect on the season and what you're taking away this year and what your intention is, if we do another season, what would those things be?

Melissa: specifically on our podcast

Jessica: Mm-hmm. 

Melissa: reflection.

Jessica: Mm-hmm.

Melissa: so I feel like 

this season 

Jessica: so 

much more 

relaxed. 

Mm-hmm.

Melissa: Um, 

Jessica: you, 

Melissa: I'm just kidding

Jessica: No, it's true. Be be honest,

Melissa: how we did it. Well, I think so there's like the conversation side of things and then there's like the business side of things and Yeah, there's like the front of the house and the back of the house.

Right. I feel like, I feel like the front of the house felt similar, but I, I actually, when I listened to our episodes, I mean I've told you this many times and I'm like, [00:43:00] wow, I think we're really good at this. Like, I feel like

we're so good. I dunno if you guys know there, but we were really good at this.

But I really felt, like a new level of confidence, I think, from both of us and hitting a stride. And I listened to our episodes and I genuinely was like, wow, I would really, I would be a listener, which sounds like such

Jessica: we should, we should make that the testimonial, the review on our website. I would be a listener, 

Melissa: podcast, 

Jessica: Melissa 

Melissa: but I think there's like, you know, there's an art to interviewing and I think that last 

year was a 

lot more planned and prescriptive. And not to say we don't prepare, but I feel like

it felt more natural 

this

year and 

I 

liked 

the spaciousness of it and I liked that you weren't burned out and I was calmer about it all.

I just felt like more natural. So I think that that was really nice, like to just have a [00:44:00] cadence that felt more like it worked for us cause we've 

had a lot 

going 

on, both of us, like a lot 

going 

on. So I'm also 

just 

proud 

that 

we even did 

it.

Jessica: Yeah. 

Melissa: and for next year, I know we've shared we wanna keep doing what we're doing, but be even more intentional about it. Um, you 

know, I 

think for 

those of us that have very full lives, it's like a luxury to do a fun creative project that is just for the fun of it. And I feel like we've been doing this just for the fun of it, and I'm interested in how we're gonna keep it for the fun of it, but also have it be a very intentional part of how we grow our 

businesses and our legacies individually and together.

so I'm excited about that, of just like 

learning 

how to 

really 

do 

a 

Jessica: podcast, 

Mm-hmm. like 

a 

professional podcast.

I, I also love, you know, we just talked about, or earlier in the episode we talked about some of season one. And if I look back through this whole journey and [00:45:00] our growth through this whole journey, it feels like this podcast is kind of a journal or like a time capsule of our growth.

it's very cool to be able to. Go on the journey of our own evolution by going from the beginning to now. There's something really beautiful about having a, like, having that captured in this

Melissa: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I also, I, I'm excited for us to do more of just us. Like, I like interviewing each other.

Jessica: Let's see what kind of feedback 

We get on this episode, 

Melissa: like this is the worst episode of all of your episodes. but I think because I now I've gotten very into Dax Shepherd's

podcast and I'm like, 

oh, I love that.

There's D and Monica and then they have like people that they interview. And then I'm so obsessed with Armchair Anonymous. Honestly, if I could turn this into like Inner Rebel Anonymous, I would do it in a heartbeat where we would just 

take people calling in 

and telling 

us their 

stories, like, 

Jessica: I would love to do oh my God, I 

Melissa: can't get enough of it.

Because it's such a shame dismantler. Like It's like [00:46:00] bite-sized vulnerability from people and I think it's so great. So I'm excited 

to play with 

the format and just see, 

you know, like as long as 

we keep having 

fun with 

it, but to have it, be more 

Jessica: I think that, I think inviting in more fun, I think it also speaks to where we are in our lives. Like you talked about my traumatized heart. Like certainly in the first season I was tending to, a very sad heart and it was harder to access my silly and more of that aspect of my nature.

And I think I'm landing more in those parts of me now, and I wanna bring that in too. Why can't we be silly? Let's just do this for the joy. 

Melissa: Great. Let's do it. The all. . Let's have Ault and a cheer.

Can, I, can 

I do 

one 

more 

thing. 

Jessica: I 

Melissa: I 

Jessica: to do your 

Melissa: your Snoop 

Dogg of acceptance 

speech 

Jessica: He 

doesn't acceptance speech. 

Melissa: You probably know this.

Jessica: I don't,

I don't know trends. I don't know okay. So when he got his star on in Hollywood, you know more about [00:47:00] that and he was doing his acceptance at the end.

Melissa: He goes, 

and finally, 

Jessica: I 

wanna thank me. 

I wanna thank me for taking no days off. 

Melissa: I 

wanna thank me for working hard. I wanna thank me for showing up. I wanna 

thank me and I, and he was like, Snoop Dogg, you a badass motherfucker. You know?

Jessica: That's cool.

Melissa: I mean I keep bringing it up, but it keeps coming up at Nova all the time.

'cause we do hot brags and we're like, we always make people celebrate themselves or we invite them, make them. and 

Jessica: event that we 

do, we do 

Melissa: do 

a celebration

and so sometimes 

it turns into Snoop Dogg acceptance speeches.

Jessica: Okay. I like this. I like where this is

going. Okay. You had to think 

yourself 

Melissa: for some 

Jessica: Okay. 

Melissa: would you thank yourself for?

Jessica: I wanna thank me for taking that leap of faith with my heart.

I wanna thank me for moving through all of the icky, uncomfortable challenges of accepting change and surrendering to having no control. I want to thank [00:48:00] me for showing up over and over and over again, I want to thank me for dealing with all the ants in my apartment this year. I want to thank me for showing up so healthily and vulnerably and open-heartedly in relationship, and I want to thank me for the grace that I think I am handling all of these transitions and expansion moments with, 

yeah. 

Melissa: It is my new favorite thing to do.

Jessica: Yeah.

Melissa: Favorite part of the

Jessica: And thank me for all the hot sauce in my fridge. Okay. And my pickles. Okay.

Your turn.

Melissa: Oh, this is so fun. we were saying we wanted to do an event like this at Nova, where we're

like, we just have everyone do there. 

I 

wanna 

thank 

me 

speeches.

I just think it's so

fun. 

Jessica: for it.

Melissa: Uh, I wanna thank me for believing in my dreams [00:49:00] and not 

quitting even 

when it felt insane to keep going. I wanna thank me for going first.

I wanna thank me for being willing to ask for help and for not trying to be perfect at anything I'm doing. I wanna thank me for being incredible at bringing together leaders and helping them step into their biggest visions. 

Jessica: I 

wanna thank me 

for 

Melissa: staying in my marriage working through 

things and recognizing 

like what it takes 

to really go all in in my marriage, go all in in my business, go all in with my 

health.

Like I 

Jessica: thank 

me for 

Melissa: for 

Jessica: care 

Melissa: of me.

Jessica: Hmm.

Melissa: Yeah.

Jessica: Yeah. I love it. Oh, hugs to ourselves and each other.

Melissa: Yeah, 

I wanna thank me for just like 

being a good 

mama to me. I want, I'm a good mo mommy 

Jessica: Aw. 

Melissa: Mommy.

I wanna thank

Jessica: For being a good mom, 

I wanna thank mom, mommy for being a good mom. [00:50:00] Mommy my sister. I, I wanted my sister to come onto the podcast maybe one day she will, but she was like, um, I'll come on. But can you not do that thing where you like, talk about how much you love each other that makes me feel really weird.

I don't want you to tell me all the things you love about me. And I'm like, that's just what we do here.

Melissa: You're 

like, no, 

I can't.

Jessica: Yeah.

Melissa: Oh my God. 

Jessica: Well, 

that's a perfect wrap.

Love you.

Melissa: Love you.

Jessica: That's how that works, right?

Melissa: That's exactly how that works. I 

Jessica: I'm 

an 

industry expert.

Thank you for, wrapping it up with me and I look forward to the next season with you.

Cheers to 

season three.

Cheers. Love you.

Melissa: Love you. Hold on. We have to hang. We have to get off in one 11. One 11. we go.