Ronald Gene Simmons: The Christmas Massacre Arkansas Can’t Forget

This episode examines Ronald Gene Simmons, tracing his rigid rise through the military, the incest allegation that triggered a sudden move, and the slow construction of an isolated household on Mockingbird Hill. As control began to slip, children leaving, jobs unraveling, pension delays stacking up, Simmons’ fixation hardened into a plan that unfolded over several days during Christmas 1987.

Fourteen members of his family were killed, including children and grandchildren. Afterward, Simmons drove to Russellville and opened fire on former coworkers and supervisors, telling police he had “gotten everybody who wanted to hurt” him before surrendering without resistance.

We walk through the timeline and the psychology behind the violence. How coercive control, isolation, and a self-imposed hierarchy can turn a family into a sealed system. We compare Simmons to other killers shaped by abusive environments and note where those patterns fall apart. The evidence points less to a reactive trauma script and more to a man who weaponized order, then tried to erase anyone who threatened it.

The episode also examines the legal aftermath: crimes spanning jurisdictions, competency findings, an unusually fast jury process, and a defendant who refused all appeals. Simmons’ final statement, calling his actions “justifiable homicide,” raises uncomfortable questions about speed, certainty, and justice in capital punishment cases.

Along the way, we center the aftermath. How holidays change forever for survivors. How a community absorbs a crime of this scale. And why verification matters when even a killer’s childhood becomes distorted through repetition and rumor.

This is a conversation about control, domestic isolation, and the legal edges of the death penalty. It avoids gore, rejects mythmaking, and insists on clarity where silence once lived.

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Transcript

New Theme Song And Banter

Paul G 0:06

So we had to make a new theme song, which I had to make this on the fly, so it's a little bit annoying.

Andrea 0:13

Yeah, everything's copyrighted anymore.

Paul G 0:15

It l it sounded good until we decided to actually use it.

Andrea 0:20

Well, it took us a bit. Well it reminds me of going to some rave. Not that I went to raves, but you know what I'm saying?

Paul G 0:30

I'm gonna say, yeah, you didn't go to rave.

Andrea 0:32

No, I didn't. But it just reminds me of what it would sound like.

Paul G 0:36

We just hit everybody in the face with don't do do so.

Andrea 0:42

I mean, it's just kind of strange because it just sounds like you should just get up and dance.

Paul G 0:46

You know what I'm saying? I don't want to get up and dance.

Andrea 0:49

I don't want to get up and dance either, but you know what I'm saying?

Paul G 0:51

I mean, I guess I could.

Andrea 0:54

But everything we pick is copyrighted. No.

Paul G 0:57

Okay.

Andrea 0:58

Does everything we pick it's copyrighted?

Paul G 1:00

It's like pitfalls of marriage. She would have said yes before we were married. Now we're married, and she's like, No.

Andrea 1:06

Oh, you see.

Paul G 1:06

I see how it is.

Introducing The Ronald Gene Simmons Case

Andrea 1:08

Well, today, what are we doing? We're covering somebody that I didn't know a whole lot about, which is surprising living in Arkansas that I didn't know a whole lot about this person.

Paul G 1:17

And it's probably the biggest case we'll ever cover.

Andrea 1:20

Well, I mainly picked it because at the time I was like, whatever, what was something awful that happened on Christmas?

Paul G 1:26

Oh, the I don't know.

Andrea 1:28

I mean And then I was like looking and looking, like, what was something bad that happened at Christmas time in Arkansas? And then it ended up being Ronald Gene Simmons is what came up. So it's it's a little past Christmas, so this is kind of I don't remember the peanut song. No. So we were we're gonna cover it last week, but then we decided we'd talk about like what how we do things. And so honestly, I didn't really know a whole lot about this guy, which I guess is kind of shocking considering we listened to true crime, but yeah.

Paul G 1:55

And again, this is the biggest case that there that this is the biggest case there's ever was in Arkansas. And it really doesn't make the annals of true crime that much. It's only covered occasionally that I know it found.

Andrea 2:08

I did I didn't w watch him, but I like when you Google him, it's like a bunch of YouTube stuff. But I don't I'm sure there's a podcast out there probably that's covered him, and I'm pretty sure that there's probably some true crime show that's covered him. Because he sounds vaguely familiar, but but he like annihilated his whole family.

Paul G 2:26

Well, just give away the ending.

Andrea 2:28

Well, I think people would know the name, be able to figure out the ending.

Paul G 2:32

Well, wouldn't people out there don't know him? Like my mom probably won't remember him. Well, she's you know, the only one that listens is my mom. Your mom doesn't even listen.

Andrea 2:42

I don't know. She might probably. Oh, does she?

Paul G 2:45

Not your aunt, your cousin. Shirley.

Andrea 2:47

Does she?

Paul G 2:48

Yeah.

Andrea 2:49

Oh, okay.

Paul G 2:50

She's gonna have something to gossip about.

Andrea 2:51

Oh, stop. She's probably listening.

Paul G 2:54

She's listening because she's infatuated by me.

Andrea 2:58

I don't think we need that on air.

Early Life, Military Service, And Family

Paul G 3:00

Come on. I I'm just embarrassing Shirley, and nobody knows what she is anyway. So it doesn't matter.

Andrea 3:05

All right, anyways. Ronald Gene Simmons was born July 15th, 1940, believe it or not, in Chicago, Illinois, to Loretta and William Simmons.

Paul G 3:14

Now Yankees.

Andrea 3:15

When I Googled this guy, this is funny, you'll get Ronald Gene Simmons, and then you'll get Gene Simmons come up. So I kept thinking, poor Gene Simmons.

Paul G 3:23

No, there's no poor Gene Simmons. Have you seen Gene Simmons? He's not there's no poor Gene Simmons.

Andrea 3:28

But I mean, you Google and both of them pop up, which is kind of funny. So believe it or not, he was born in 1940.

Paul G 3:35

But in January of Was it his parents in the war or his mom a dad in the war?

Andrea 3:40

Not that I know of. But here's what's the sad part though, is his dad. Okay, he's born in 1940. His dad died of a stroke in 1943. So he was young.

Paul G 3:50

That's crazy.

Andrea 3:51

And then a year later, his mom remarried, like really quick. To well ch I guess to each her own. And those it was a different time period back, you know, back then, but I guess a year.

Paul G 4:02

I mean, she's I mean, come you know.

Andrea 4:04

She's by herself with a baby. What is she gonna do?

Paul G 4:06

A woman wants what a woman wants.

Andrea 4:08

Oh god, stop. So she married he married a William D. Griffin, the mama did, a civil engineer. U.S. Army beat him. I don't I couldn't find talk about him getting his ass whooped. I couldn't find much on his childhood, other than he was, as we'll get into it here a little bit, he was kind of a bully.

Paul G 4:28

So he was, but we don't know about the this. No, the dad or the mom being mean to him.

Andrea 4:33

I uh chat said something about she was domineering, but I couldn't find anything that we actually where that could be referenced from.

Paul G 4:40

Well, you know, in he as a family annihilator, he's not necessarily he's not gonna be um what's his face uh or you know like gean. I think gean was not a family annihilator. Gean was troubled because he had an overabusive mother. Uh the the other guy that the Netflix series brought back, nobody knew about until they brought him out, the the co ed killer.

Andrea 5:08

Ed Kemper.

Paul G 5:09

Yeah, Kemper. He wasn't a family annihilator. But but he had an overabusive mother.

Andrea 5:15

I don't think this is the case. I could not find anything that says it.

Paul G 5:18

I think that he me what I was doing is I was just going to contrast that if you know anything about criminal minds and how we go about our psychology on those things, it doesn't mean anything. It's a high probability that somebody who's abused by their mother will become a sadistic killer. I mean I mean overly abused, like but uh it really said it doesn't mean anything because you didn't look at Bundy. Immediately look at Bundy. Bundy wasn't abused, his mother was a status the whole nine yards, and yet he was still a killer.

Andrea 5:57

Yeah, but I I couldn't find I still haven't figured it out. Yeah. Well, I like I said, I couldn't find anything about his family to be able to back that up, other than that's what one thing said, but I couldn't find it substantiated in anything else. It's really not a whole lot said other than about him personally, not about his family.

Paul G 6:13

Yeah. Well, and him personally, because he was very outspoken after he was caught.

Andrea 6:18

Which one? J Simmons?

Paul G 6:20

Yeah. Yeah, he Yeah, he wouldn't shut up.

Andrea 6:23

No, and I couldn't find that either. I just he did basically just was like, okay, I want to die. I mean, that's basically he basically goes got arrested with very little incident.

Paul G 6:33

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Andrea 6:35

So, anyways, he his stepdad pretty much was a U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, and they moved to Griffin Little Rock, Pulaski County, in 1946. And basically, this guy, poor kid, was bounced around from like different places, kind of like his his stepdad's job. So he really couldn't stay anywhere for very long. Um, basically, um, he had a hard time making friends, he had a hard time in any type of interpersonal relationships because I mean by the time he got settled somewhere that he'd be bounced around. But this is pretty common, like with any army kid, you know what I'm saying? They say he was socially isolated, but I think anywhere in Arkansas in the 40s was probably considered socially isolated.

Paul G 7:18

He didn't graduate high school.

Andrea 7:20

Uh, I don't know.

Paul G 7:21

No, he he dropped out of the water. Oh, yeah, he did. Yes, right.

Andrea 7:24

He dropped out joined the navy, that's correct.

Paul G 7:25

In the he was a ship repair in Guam. There's nothing in Guam. So basically got his GED in 59.

Andrea 7:34

Okay. What? Oh nothing. I'm getting there. Um basically joined the Navy. Um he won a bronze star, the Republic of Vietnam Cross for service as an airman. And then um he also joined the Air Force after he was still in the Navy.

Paul G 7:51

Yeah.

Andrea 7:52

So interesting. He had retired with the rank of Master Sergeant.

Paul G 7:57

That's a that's a heavy rank.

Andrea 7:59

And during all his military career, he met his wife. Um, so basically the total they had a total of let me look it up here, seven children. That's a lot of kids.

Paul G 8:11

Yeah.

Andrea 8:12

And it's been saying in some things I read that, you know, she he had was kind of oh, not want to say abusive, but he was kind of he was very controlling, very domineering. And it was rumored towards the end before this incident happened that she was thinking about leaving him because a lot of the kids left the house, but that's only one report that I got.

Paul G 8:37

I was asking Chad what it took to become a master sergeant in the 70s in the Air Force. Yeah. And it says it's uh between senior technical expert and now you babysit other adults for a living.

Andrea 8:51

Yeah, you're basically it.

Paul G 8:53

Another thing I trained my AI to tell me jokes instead of just giving me straight facts. Andrea absolutely hates it, but I think it's funny.

Andrea 9:01

I do. I'm like, just get to the point.

Paul G 9:02

Yeah.

Andrea 9:03

But in his childhood, though, one thing I did find out about Simmons is he had a reputation as a bully, a troublemaker, and questioned authority. And it was so bad that his family set him to military school and he actually did well in military school, which is why he went in the Navy.

Paul G 9:15

Well, that's pretty that's psychologically that makes sense because people who are uncontrollable generally find their feet in a structured area.

Andrea 9:28

Yeah.

Paul G 9:29

And it's and that's probably why I should have gone to military school. I would have not been such a jerk.

Andrea 9:37

I mean, I don't know.

Paul G 9:38

Oh, you were saying I'd be a jerk anyway?

Isolation, Control, And CPS Rumors

Andrea 9:40

I don't know. What's interesting though, is there was a lot of the house had some conflicting things that I read on there. Where him and his wife lived, a lot of things said that it was kind of like the odd house. They were the odd people, they were the quiet people. And then I had other reports saying like there was no CPS involved, which I found that that not to be correct.

Paul G 10:01

They were they were there several times.

Andrea 10:03

No, just was about to come out and be reported. And um, neighbors had later described the home as quiet, closed, and uneasy. So uh basically uh they were living in New Mexico, and at this time um he was taking a fancy to his daughter, Sheila.

Paul G 10:21

Oh my gosh. It's one of those.

Andrea 10:24

Yeah.

Paul G 10:24

Jeez.

Andrea 10:25

So basically, Sheila got pregnant.

Paul G 10:30

By his kid, by him?

Andrea 10:31

By him.

Paul G 10:31

Oh man.

Andrea 10:32

And so she tried to hide the pregnancy. She tried not to talk about the pregnancy, and I guess this was upsetting the the, I guess you'd say Gene Jr. And there's been some allegations saying that Gene Jr. called anonymously on the situation that was going on, and there's some things saying that also she confessed at school when she got confronted.

Paul G 10:51

So the hell would I still don't understand that it's your own kid?

Andrea 10:56

Yeah, like she would he had a like a natural type of um love for her. Like it was saying that he liked to collect coins and took her to like a coin collecting place, and that's where he impregnated her, is when they were out on this trip by themselves. Uh and he slept with her three more times after that. Why? So basically, when he found out that you know he was daughter was pregnant, he just told the family that hey, it's another family coming into another addition to the family, we're not gonna say anything about this. So it's like totally made it 100% come off like this is fine.

Paul G 11:33

Yeah, it's fine, doesn't matter.

Andrea 11:35

Which is like uh no. So basically, Simmons realizes oh oh crap, I'm got what am I going to do? So he actually has the gumption to think under threat of prosecution that oh, if I say that I'm gonna go under counseling classes that uh about touching my daughter, that this will prevent any type of prosecution. Uh no. So basically nothing happened because it's the 70s. They up and moved before anything could be moved moved forward as far as like any prosecution. CPS. So they went back to Arkansas. So um this is like mind-blowing to me. It's like obviously the older brother is like, This isn't right. Yeah. And so the wife is aware of it, but Lord knows the situation she's in. She could probably be like, I'm in an abusive situation, I can't get out. He's can I read some reports that he was in control of the money, he was control of everything. Like she had no resources, no nothing. I'm guessing probably she had very limited skills as far as taking care of herself.

Paul G 12:36

Is this is this one of those guys where he cuts all the family off from the neighbors and friends and stuff?

Andrea 12:41

And I don't know. I couldn't find anything hair nair and that wouldn't put it past the situation. But he moved they moved to really like very rural part of Arkansas, like town towards Russellville. Yeah. And they are on this house on this property where they have to dig their own trenches to go to the bathroom in.

Paul G 12:59

Nice.

Andrea 12:59

And things like that.

Paul G 13:00

Like it's on latrine duty. I mean, that's what he did in the military.

Andrea 13:03

So yeah, yeah, exactly. So, like, very like I'm I would like to think they have running water, but maybe they don't. So these allegations that made them move happen in '81. So they get back to Arkansas, and basically the kids are growing up, they're moving out of the house. Uh Sheila finds a boyfriend, finds gets finds a husband, gets out of the house. The Gene Jr. gets out of the house, and basically uh he starts to lose control. He is um gets increased paranoia, he gets very much odd jobs, basically, um, low-paying jobs.

Paul G 13:44

But he's on retirement too in the whole time, so he's got a check coming in.

Andrea 13:46

But here's the problem because he moved abruptly from New Mexico, didn't he follow him? He's not getting his pension check.

Paul G 13:52

Because they didn't know where he was.

Andrea 13:53

Exactly.

Paul G 13:54

But he gets it eventually.

Andrea 13:55

Uh I would think so. So um here we go. Pull them by my notes here. So basically, they moved on a 13-acre tract of land that would be welcomely known as Mockingbird Hill. Uh, two older mobile homes joined to form one large home by a makeshift privacy fence. And basically no indoor, you know, basically no had to dig their own place to go to the bathroom.

Paul G 14:22

I'm trying to get uh AI to go out and research and give me a definitive answer on isolating everybody, and it keeps saying, Yes, he was isolationist, yes, he was an isolationist, but I'm like, okay, where did you get this fact? And it keeps going, well, all I know is that yes, he was an so it's not giving me it's not citing any sources.

Andrea 14:44

Really?

Paul G 14:44

Yeah, that's crazy. I never had to do this before. You gotta cite the sources, man. I'm gonna leave you.

Incest, Flight To Arkansas, And Paranoia

Andrea 14:51

Yeah, you gotta cite sources. So um basically he's working odd jobs, he uh works at a law firm at one point in time, he works at various other like like medial type stuff because he's like, you know, his pensions checks not coming. Yeah. And so this tension at home with out of control, the tension of not having income coming in makes him increasingly paranoid. These children develop outside relationships, you know, the risk of incest finally getting out in Arkansas, which I don't know how that would work because it happened in New Mexico.

Paul G 15:30

Uh yeah, the crime has already been committed and it wasn't in the jurisdiction. So nothing was Yeah, you know, that makes a that's that's a decent legal question right there, actually. If you know, if she shows up pregnant, then the crime didn't the crime is it still a crime? Is it a crime to impregnate or to have a pregnant daughter buy? And that's the that's the the it's kind of like when you go to the bank and you have one person and and one person or.

Andrea 16:02

I think honestly, it would have to drive down to the fact that the the crime would have to be prosecuted in the in the county it was committed in, which would be New Mexico.

Paul G 16:11

Right. But if the law says See what I'm getting at though? I think that they would just he would If the law says if you ha if you have a daughter who is impregnated by you, you're committing incest and you shall go to jail. If the law said it that way, they could get him because he lives and he's breaking the law. I I don't think it would be that I don't think you could frame a law that way though, could you?

Andrea 16:39

No, it always has to go back to the county in which it was done in the state it was done in.

Paul G 16:42

The act there has to be an act, and there's no act, it's just an existing. So yeah. Interesting. I think it's just a thought. I mean, I'm like, I wonder. And you you don't think about those nuances in law and how different they are and have to be that specific.

Andrea 16:59

Yeah, there has to be specific.

Paul G 17:01

But if you own a aut if you own an automatic weapon, you're breaking the law. It's not the purchase of, it's the ownership of. It's interesting.

Andrea 17:12

We'd have to go find the I think ownership of a weapon and incestor a little different, but but I know what we're trying to get at.

Paul G 17:18

Oh my gosh, we're gonna argue on air today. No, but um I'm saying the way the law is written, uh, if you own an automatic weapon, it's not an act. It's the act of owning.

Andrea 17:33

Yeah.

Paul G 17:33

And if your daughter is pregnant, it's not the act of impregnation, it's she is pregnant. That's the same as owning. It's it's it's there, it's wrong, and it's against the law. That's what I'm trying to say.

Andrea 17:47

Oh, okay.

Paul G 17:48

You still don't get it, do you?

Andrea 17:50

I get it. Anyways, back to the story.

Paul G 17:56

I'll just sit back here and do nothing.

Andrea 18:00

So um what I was trying to say is he like hold various one of the the people that he ended up doing where he worked at ended up being involved in his crimes. That's what I'm trying to get at. He quit his positions at accounts clerked at World Woodline Motor Freight, and he also worked for a law firm, which I find it very interesting that he was in a law firm. What do you think?

Paul G 18:24

I didn't know he worked, didn't work for a law firm. But what did it what did he do with the law firm?

Andrea 18:29

I d I guess he was a clerk. I didn't really say, I couldn't find anything on it. So yeah. So basically, what happens with the day of the murders? Which is pretty much uh December of eighty-seven, is when this all started. So basically, he killed 16 people total, 14 members of his own family. So can you believe that?

Paul G 18:54

Yeah, I mean, the guy's the worst one in Arkansas history because he just went on spread, just kill what was his impetus?

Andrea 19:03

Like I said, he was losing control of everything, his family, he's losing control of the whole situation, he's losing control of his he couldn't work, he's losing control of his kids, the idea of Vincess getting out.

Paul G 19:15

He was just Just gonna sh just gonna just erase everyone?

Andrea 19:20

Pretty much.

Paul G 19:21

So um what I could find is like Just get in your car and go to the beach.

Andrea 19:26

Well, it's not that easy. But the murders happened over several days in small groups, so like not everybody in the family was in the house at the same time.

Paul G 19:34

Yeah. Which Well, it's like that one lady that's still until she died is in the psych hospital. They screwed with her and she went from one she went all the way from Benton County to all all the way down to Winslow, Arkansas, and killed everyone she knew.

Andrea 19:49

Which I don't get that.

Paul G 19:50

Took her a day and a half.

Andrea 19:54

Yeah, so basically the first round of murders was his wife.

Paul G 20:00

And then he had uh He started usually the first one is where they uh their anger sits the most. I wouldn't think Earned or unearned.

Andrea 20:12

I wouldn't think his wife would be the first one.

Paul G 20:14

Was she the first murdered though?

Andrea 20:16

Well, in the group of murders, we don't actually I couldn't actually figure out like who was shot first. Not unless you could find something that I missed. But she was 46, and then you got um I guess you could say Gene Jr., Ronald Jean Jr. 26, and then the brother Eddie, and then Loretta, the sister, and then Marianne Simmons, 11, the sister, Rebecca or Becky was eight, and granddaughter granddaughter Barbara Simmons, three, was the daughter of basically Ronald Jr. The first round to get shot. But the babies were strangled.

Paul G 20:50

Why did he? That's I mean, that's like worse. Strangle a baby.

Andrea 20:57

But that's not the worst part of it. Some of the babies he put in the back of the trunk of his car.

Paul G 21:01

He took them with him, huh?

Andrea 21:03

Well, it doesn't say that he went anywhere. Other than the second part. Maybe he'd had him in the trunk of his car whenever he killed the last or will hurt the last two people, but it's not really said that they were in the car, other than he put them in the trunk of the car. You know what I'm saying?

Paul G 21:16

Yeah.

Andrea 21:17

So then this is all in Russellville?

Paul G 21:19

Yeah. Or out there in the woods.

Andrea 21:21

Around Russellville.

Paul G 21:22

Out in the woods.

Andrea 21:23

So then after Christmas, um William Henry Simmons was 22, killed him and his wife, uh Renita, Renetta Simmons, 21.

Paul G 21:33

Why did they why did he do that, I wonder?

Andrea 21:34

They came, they came over.

Paul G 21:36

Oh they stumbled upon him. It was an accident. He he didn't want to kill them. He wouldn't seek them all.

Andrea 21:41

Well, I think he wanted to kill them because they were coming the day after Christmas to have Christmas with that side of the family.

Paul G 21:46

Oh, he's waiting on them.

Andrea 21:47

He's waiting on them. Like it's been said that all the bodies remained in the house.

Paul G 21:51

And so I'm just having Christmas dinner. Finally a quiet one, I guess.

Mockingbird Hill And Financial Strain

Andrea 21:55

But if you think about it, if you're coming to Christmas at your house and you're coming there, and you know that your mom and your siblings are gonna be there, and you walk into the house and it's like just your dad sitting there, wouldn't you question like where's mom? Where's where's so and so is that?

Paul G 22:14

Wondering if they're still sitting where he killed them. I mean, they might have walked in and been like, uh, what happened to mom?

Andrea 22:20

I mean, it doesn't really say like you walk in and boom, they're dead, or does he like, you know, come have hi son, come have a seat and then bang, you're dead.

Paul G 22:28

It doesn't really say, which I could Well, they're not gonna know unless he tells them.

Andrea 22:33

Which I'm kind of surprised he didn't want to. I mean, he was very forthcoming of this he's the one that wanted to waive his ability for appeal for the death penalty.

Paul G 22:44

He just wanted to die. Which was what he was that's what he wanted to begin with, you know. He just wanted to die to begin with. That's what's why he's killing a guy like that can't kill himself because that would mean that he is the problem. And because suicide, you know, we've all not everybody's been there, but I've been there when I was younger. And suicide is more of if only this would end. I hate this. This is terrible. I'm such a failure. Nothing I do fixes things. And that's usually suicidal thoughts.

Andrea 23:27

Yeah.

Paul G 23:28

This guy's not gonna think that way. This guy he's in charge.

Andrea 23:33

Yeah, I think he's just pissed off and angry.

Paul G 23:35

Well, he he he can't commit suicide, but he can do everything but himself.

Andrea 23:41

I don't think he wanted to do suicide. I don't even think that was an idea. I think he was just so angry that he doesn't have control over every single individual in his family that he's just gonna kill him. Just like I'm done. You're all gone.

Paul G 23:51

Well, may I mean maybe we don't we don't know, we can't ask him, so. Um but at the same time, I the I'm just feeling in my gut that when he said, I don't want an appeal, just kill me. He may that may have been what he wanted the whole time.

Andrea 24:09

Well, the last thing he said before he died, let me pull his quote up. Uh he says something like really snarky.

Paul G 24:19

He was in the what was it, electric chair or did he get injection?

Andrea 24:23

He got lethal injection.

Paul G 24:24

Lethal injection.

Andrea 24:25

Last words were justice delayed, finally be done, justifiable homicide.

Paul G 24:33

Okay.

Andrea 24:36

I think he feels like in his head it what he did was justifiable. Everybody's gone.

Paul G 24:40

No, justifiable homicide, I think, means he's talking about the state killing people. It's justifiable.

Andrea 24:46

You think so?

Paul G 24:47

Yeah. Yeah. That's what it reads to me. It reads to me that he feels Justice be done.

Andrea 24:53

Right? Justice delayed, finally be done, justifiable homicide. I mean, maybe for himself or you can also interpret it as he feels like what he did was justifiable homicide.

Paul G 25:01

I don't know. I I think it's for this guy, I think it's the other way around. I think it's uh uh justice delayed because he killed him, and then he's waited, what, six years before they finally put a needle in his arm or longer.

Andrea 25:14

Yeah, this was in 87, he was killed in 90.

Paul G 25:17

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's the justice delayed, justice what was the next one?

Andrea 25:22

Uh Justice Delayed, finally be done. Finally be done. Okay, he's gonna kill him. Justifiable homicide.

Paul G 25:28

To me, it speaks towards the state. That the state now has a justified reason to kill him. But yeah, I mean He's accepting his fate, is what I the way I read it.

Andrea 25:37

But I guess why would you want to kill your whole family unless you're full of anger?

Paul G 25:41

Well, sure. Sure. I mean, I'm not I'm not saying that's not a motive. I'm just thinking about what he said at the last.

Andrea 25:49

Yeah. Just to me, it strike me as very creepy in a way.

Paul G 25:53

It was meant to be creepy. He was he was meaning it to be creepy, I'm pretty sure. Well, yeah, I mean like, hey, can I have a baloney sandwich before you do this? You know, it wasn't one of those guys.

Andrea 26:03

No. He I think like he waived his appeals and it caused such an issue that various religious groups and Arkansas were arguing that you have to have appeals to be on the death penalty, but he didn't.

Paul G 26:13

No, you do.

Andrea 26:14

And he didn't want any appeals. Which he didn't want any of the appeals. And they were arguing, saying that should be his right as an architect, United States citizens, but they were arguing that you know he's not getting his constitutional rights because he's not having appeals.

Paul G 26:31

There was a dude put to death uh about two months ago or somewhere in the past six months anyway. Uh where they he chose firing squad, so they shot him.

Andrea 26:41

That's crazy.

Paul G 26:42

Yeah. There's still states that do that.

Andrea 26:45

And they are.

Paul G 26:45

I'm like, can I sign up for that one? Because that sound bitch needed it.

Andrea 26:49

Yeah, but I I think that that's more inhumane. That they say that what the It was his choice. That lethal injection's inhumane compared to firing squad.

Paul G 26:59

I don't know. It's a good bullet to the head. That's I mean it's done. So it's lethal injection, you discover the spinal cord and you're done.

Andrea 27:06

You don't feel anything lethal inject.

Legal Nuance And Jurisdiction Questions

Paul G 27:08

I know. I it I don't as long as they're if they're asleep, it's no different than having an operation. You don't know anything that happened to you. So I they just don't want to see anybody die. And you honestly, I'm for the death penalty, but only in cases where we can absolutely 100% prove it. I don't want to put somebody to to death who is um you know i i juries will put people to death, but uh it's like you don't want me on a jury.

Andrea 27:40

Yeah.

Paul G 27:40

Because I'll be like, I didn't see this. It's evidence if there's no DNA and it's all just a classical case like we've done for a hundred years, uh and there's no video, no DNA, and nothing, it's just a classical case. I think he did it. I'm pretty sure that he did it. But I don't have a reason there's no reasonable doubt that he didn't do it, but it's something down deep says, mmm, he might not have. I can't quite bring myself to be 100%. That's not a reasonable doubt, that's just a doubt.

Andrea 28:19

Yeah.

Paul G 28:19

Right, right. And the law requires reasonable doubt for a jury.

Andrea 28:23

Yeah.

Paul G 28:23

Right? So I'd be like, yeah, he did it. Pretty sure he did it, but I won't go for the death penalty on something like that because I can't 100% put him there at the time. Or her or whatever.

Andrea 28:40

Yeah.

Paul G 28:40

You know, what if we're wrong? Then we've killed somebody and that's permanent. Jail time, we can let them go and say we're sorry. And at least they have some life. But if you just kill them, I can't. That's there's no coming back.

Andrea 28:58

I guess that's why they may have mandatory appeals.

Paul G 29:00

Yeah, that's one reason they have the mandatory appeals, yes.

Andrea 29:05

I think I want to say Simmons was precedent for this, but he probably was for Arkansas. I wouldn't have put it.

Paul G 29:11

No, it was I think it was coming out of New York and everybody just kind of adopted it.

Andrea 29:15

Really?

Paul G 29:16

Yeah, it's one of those things that starts somewhere else and ends up here because it's actually a good idea.

Andrea 29:21

Well, yeah, we do need help. But in this case, William Henry Simmons, the baby, for uh, was actually put for sure in the trunk of the car.

Paul G 29:31

Ugh.

Andrea 29:32

And then later that day, Sheila Simmons, which is the daughter that he fathered a daughter by, and her name was Sylvia. Uh, she came by and she brought her husband and Sylvia Six, which is Ronald Jean Simmons' daughter. Man, can you imagine being the husband? And then Michael, the baby that he she had with her husband, they were also shot and killed. So he killed his own daughter and then his own other daughter.

Paul G 29:58

She's my daughter, my sister, my daughter, my sister.

Andrea 30:01

And this baby was also placed in the trunk of the car, the Michael Simmons one.

Paul G 30:05

So he's putting all the babies in the car?

Andrea 30:07

I mean, two of them.

Paul G 30:08

Six years old and less in the car.

Andrea 30:09

Two of them that we reported, yes. Which makes me think he put it.

Paul G 30:12

Is he gonna take them somewhere?

Andrea 30:14

I I don't really know. It never really says that I could find. But if he's gonna go do another killing spree afterwards, either he took him out of the trunk of the car or they're still there. It doesn't say anywhere that I can find anything that they opened up the trunk when they like pulled, you know, to finally gain capture of him and arrested him that they've found there. But why would you put them in the trunk of the car? I mean, that's a little disturbing in a way, you know what I'm saying? Like, why why do that? So then he decides, hey, I'm not done. I'm gonna go by to the offices of Peel Eddie Gibbons law firm and I'm gonna shot and kill the secretary there.

Paul G 30:53

It's what is that the one he worked for? Yeah. Oh, so he just didn't like her.

Andrea 30:57

No, supposedly it's been rumored that she had rejected his advances.

Paul G 31:01

Oh.

Andrea 31:02

So I guess this is the day after Christmas. It was just law offices. And then he net went to a Taylor oil company and shot two men when he also worked there.

Paul G 31:13

Oh, he just didn't like these people.

Andrea 31:15

Right.

Paul G 31:16

They did something that he thinks they told it's not like the military. If somebody tells you to piss off, you can throw them in the brig or make them do runs and jumps and you know, exercise them to death. These guys probably just went, screw off, buddy. Yeah, he couldn't have didn't have any recourse.

Andrea 31:32

But then he's not done. Then he goes to Sing Sinclair Convenience Store and shot a man and a woman, but they lived.

Paul G 31:39

Did he know those people?

Andrea 31:40

I couldn't find anything that he knew. But then he went by the woodline offices. He worked there and shot and wounded a woman, and he would that's where he was arrested.

Paul G 31:49

He went to the He's just pissed off. He's just going around shooting people?

Andrea 31:53

Yep.

Paul G 31:56

At the at the gas station, he just said, hey, yo, what's up?

Andrea 32:00

But here's the sad part for us in the state of Arkansas. He bought the gun at Walmart.

Paul G 32:06

Well, back then you could buy handguns at Walmart.

Andrea 32:09

I do remember that. Well, you could they had a gun section and you could buy bullets and you can look at guns and you can buy all that there. And that was just like a everyday thing. When did they stop selling guns at Walmart?

Paul G 32:20

Well, they still sell guns, they sell long guns at Walmart.

Andrea 32:23

Certain Walmarts.

Paul G 32:24

Well, in Arkansas. If you're in some states, you can't do that.

Andrea 32:27

Yeah.

Paul G 32:28

Um in the hardest part about buying a gun at Walmart is finding someone to open the damn case. They're never there.

Andrea 32:35

Well, they're never there in the paint section either.

Paul G 32:37

That's true.

The Murders Begin: December 1987

Andrea 32:38

Or, well, the automotive, they're always busy. But um, let me see here. Uh yeah, Sinclair Minimart, where he shot and wounded Roberta Wardry and David Slayer. His last stop was Woodline Motor Freight Company. Simmons located his former supervisor, Joyce Butts. Oh, Joyce. Wounded her, wounded her in the head and chest. Oh, geez. And then took worker Vicky Jackson at gunpoint into a computer office and advised her to phone the police. And then he told her, I've come to do what I wanted to do. It's all over, and now I've gotten everybody who wanted to hurt me. And then he surrendered to Russettville police when they arrived.

Paul G 33:22

So he's going through town shooting people.

Andrea 33:24

Yeah.

Paul G 33:25

This is what eighty-two?

Andrea 33:28

This is a nine no, this is a ninety-seven. This is his whole spree.

Paul G 33:32

Not ninety-seven. He died.

Andrea 33:33

I mean 87, excuse me. 87.

Paul G 33:35

Sorry. 87.

Andrea 33:36

Yeah.

Paul G 33:38

Uh Woodline. I'm looking up here. I want to talk about the people at the at the gas station.

Andrea 33:46

Yeah. And they don't really think I couldn't find anything on the gas station. I mean, do you just like willy-nilly, I need to go get some Cheez Its and I'm gonna go in here and shoot these people?

Paul G 33:55

I mean Says gas station people shorthand. It was his former workplace. He worked at the gas station.

Andrea 34:02

Oh, okay, okay.

Paul G 34:03

Troy Johnson, Simmons former supervisor and manager, because when he worked there. Shot John he shot Johnson in the office area at the Sinclair. And then a co-worker was who who was president of the facility knew Simmons personally through employment, killed him.

Andrea 34:24

So he's basically like angry that he can't killing everybody knows. He can't hold jobs, I guess, for very long for whatever reason, probably because he's kind of a bully and doesn't take authority well. And so he gets fired or loses the job.

Paul G 34:38

Yeah, because he's a jerk.

Andrea 34:39

And he's so freaking angry at his family and losing control that he's gonna take it bet on everyone that heard hurt him.

Paul G 34:46

Might as well. I mean, it's ever it's everybody else's fault besides his. Well, to hurt me doesn't necessarily mean physically.

Andrea 34:57

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Paul G 34:58

And you know, I'm surprised there's not more women on that list because women tend to do more rumor. Men will just walk up to you and push you.

Andrea 35:07

But it wasn't in the 80s, though.

Paul G 35:08

Character assassination kind of thing.

Andrea 35:10

I hate to say this to sound sort of sexist, but in the eighties uh I remember more men being supervisors than women.

Paul G 35:16

Yeah, there weren't very many women. I mean, there were, but I mean uh Women were still trying to stay home, and then some women, you know, it was the eighties is a different place because it's now and then. Now there's more women in managerial roles than men.

Andrea 35:33

Yeah.

Paul G 35:34

And I mean you can go fact check that. Middle management is dominated by females.

Andrea 35:39

Yeah.

Paul G 35:39

Just like the the the faculties at the colleges dominated by females. And I mean, I don't even know. It's it's crazy. It's just a fact. Google it, do whatever your research is. Then I think that the whole way we do things is messed up.

Andrea 35:56

What's interesting though is I found here the staff psychiatrist, Dr. Irving Ko K-U-O, I'm gonna butcher that, found Simmons to be sane. He probably was sane. Capable of standing trial.

Paul G 36:08

Uh standing trial and being insane are two different things.

Andrea 36:12

But get this jury selections for the first trial took less than six hours.

Paul G 36:17

What?

Andrea 36:18

That's what I said. Jury selection for the first trial took less than six hours.

Paul G 36:22

You wanna be on a jury? Sure. What's your name? Okay. Well, welcome to Arkansas, you're on jury.

Andrea 36:28

I mean, I would I get jury selections take a bit because once you voidir doesn't exist in Arkansas. Uh what?

Paul G 36:34

Voidir.

Andrea 36:35

What's that?

Paul G 36:36

Where they select the jury, they question the jurors. I mean, they do voidir, but not like in New York, like you see on TV.

Andrea 36:43

I would think that they'd have to because that's the like defense, and then the, you know, I mean, every prosecutor's got his one side, the other one's got their side, and they know by looking at the jury, like, hey, she's wearing, she looks like she's well made, and things like that. We're gonna take her out because more than likely she believes in the death penalty. Or they're gonna ask certain questions to get them to say stuff to get them to be able to be weeded out.

Paul G 37:06

Yeah. They're just not they don't go as far as they do in other states in Arkansas.

Andrea 37:11

But get this.

Paul G 37:12

Do you own a dog?

Andrea 37:13

So he committed the murders in '87, and so he was found, he was 14 counts of capital murder and the death of his family on February 10th, 1989. Okay, 1989. He's killed in 1990. Or lethal injection in 1990. So that's really quick.

Paul G 37:31

Yeah. Well, you know, Arkansas is faster than that. We got some guys in death row for just two years we put down this is recent.

Andrea 37:39

How do they have time to do their appeals?

Paul G 37:41

Get it done.

Andrea 37:43

But then we have people that have been on death row for what, 20 plus years?

Paul G 37:47

Kansas has had people on death row for 40 years and they still haven't killed anybody in about 40 years.

Andrea 37:53

Then take it off the books and give them life in prison.

Paul G 37:55

I mean they can't they can't decide that in Kansas. They they're split down the middle and they can't they can't go either way. It's like abortion in Kansas. You would think Kansas wouldn't have abortion, but uh Kansas does. And it's the same thing with death penalty. They just they can't make up their mind in Kansas. It's weird.

Andrea 38:12

Maybe they just can't get it where it could be voted, where it could be unanimous. Yeah.

Paul G 38:16

It's there's there's so much political infighting over everything in Kansas. You would think Kansas would be more be more conservative than that, and or at least get it done, but they can't. They can't do anything. There's like a frozen state.

Andrea 38:30

Wow. But yeah, we uh we can see what I found something interesting here. Uh okay, the the Byram here, one of the prosecutors offered a possible motive when he presented an undated note that was discovered in a safe deposit box at a Russell bank after Simmons' arrest. The letter seemed to indicate a strong love-hate relationship between Simmons and his daughter Sheila.

Paul G 38:55

Yeah.

Andrea 38:55

After the judge ruled the letter inadmissible, Simmons lashed out at Viram, punching him in the face and unsuccessfully struggling for the deputy's handgun. This is irritating. Offers rushed him out of the courtroom in chains, and he was sentenced to lethal death by lethal injection on March 16th in 1989. But okay, sentenced to lethal injection on March 16th of 89.

Paul G 39:19

Yeah.

Andrea 39:19

So he did get some appeal or some stay of sentence because he died in 1990.

Paul G 39:24

Yeah. Well, you know, he said he didn't want an appeal, so okay, fine. We'll kill you as fast as possible. Get you off the books, quit having to feed you. So he I mean, you know, it's it was him. That's one of those things where you know it was him.

Andrea 39:38

Yeah.

Paul G 39:39

You know, I mean, it's like I would be like, I'd be like, can I pull the trigger? I mean, it'd be all right.

Andrea 39:44

So on March 1st, 1989, Simmons was found competent to waive his rights to appeal his conviction. However, in filing a Whitmore versus Arkansas challenge this right, reversed uh Lewis Franz and Johns Whitmore contended that Simmons used. His right to refuse appeal, in fact, jeopardized appellate rights over the death row inmates by seven to two vote. The Supreme Court justices threw out the appeal. However, the ongoing legal proceedings that prevented the execution of Simmons from being carried out. So Simmons was watched, was watching television and eating what he thought would be his last meal when the news of his day of the execution was announced.

Paul G 40:26

He's just lucky that All in the Family episode wasn't the last one he had to watch.

Andrea 40:30

I'm just laughing because he's sitting there thinking this is it. I'm gonna go wherever my makers and then oh man, I have to stay here.

Paul G 40:36

I you know, there's there's a special place in hell for this guy, so it doesn't really matter.

Andrea 40:40

So I'm bad.

Paul G 40:41

Um let's torture him a little bit. I'm okay with it. I don't feel bad about it.

Andrea 40:45

But I think more I think torturing him by giving him life in prison against he wanted to die. So if you want to torture a man for what he did to his family and what he did to innocent victims, why don't you just give him life in prison? To me, that would be the ultimate punishment. I mean, seriously.

Paul G 41:00

Life in prison, or he's homebound with Rosie O'Donnell.

Andrea 41:10

So get this. Mar May 31st, 1990, good old Bill Clinton signed someone's signed his second execution warrant for June 25th, 1990.

Paul G 41:21

Yeah. Bill was just mad that he cut down on the pool of girls.

Andrea 41:25

I don't know. Sorry.

Paul G 41:27

I met Bill when I was a kid in I don't know. I just I'm I'm not getting into politics. I'm just telling you. I met him when I was a kid, and that guy's a car salesman all day long.

Christmas Visits And More Killings

Andrea 41:41

I just laugh because whenever he oh, the impeachment, the impeachment when he's president, I'm going, he did the same crap when he was governor. Why are we making an upright?

Paul G 41:48

Why does it matter? Yeah, I know. And and you notice it he didn't get convicted either.

Andrea 41:52

So of course they don't.

Paul G 41:55

He's lying to Congress. No, he just didn't know what the word is was. He had to make clarify that. That's the whole thing that they had on TV. He because he is a lawyer.

Andrea 42:06

Yeah.

Paul G 42:07

He forced the person giving him the deposition to it to def to define the word is. He wanted to make sure that is, what is meant. Was there more meaning to it, or was it just this?

Andrea 42:22

You could go down a rabbit hole with any word. That's what that's why you want to go longer. Yeah. Well, this is interesting though. This was the second quickest death quickest sentence to execution to death time in United States history since the death penalty was reinstated in 76. That's crazy.

Paul G 42:42

I don't have a problem with that. They should have shot him right outside the courtroom. It was just sentenced to death, and then just walked him outside and boom, gone, done.

Andrea 42:48

Look at this, he refused all visitors, including legal counsel and clergy.

Paul G 42:52

Yeah.

Andrea 42:53

And then we talked about his last words.

Paul G 42:54

That boy didn't believe in God.

Andrea 42:56

No family members claimed his body. Well, he killed everybody.

Paul G 42:59

Yeah, you know what? They're all gone.

Andrea 43:02

I did find a newspaper article for his wife's sister, and how she stated, you know, in the newspaper article, because it was really sad, how, you know, not she lost her sister and then she lost nieces and nephews, and you know those other stuff. But how Christmas had a different meaning for her now because Simmons split the what little family was left from her side, like nobody talks to each other, and only certain groups of them talk to each other. And then that I think that's a tragedy in all this, is because I feel like he got he got what he wanted. He got death. He wanted to die.

Paul G 43:44

I mean That's what I was saying. I think he wanted to kill himself the whole time. But he couldn't do it. That kind of guy, that narcissist personality, that ego, giant ego that's bigger than a freaking Mac truck is not gonna allow himself to kill himself.

Andrea 44:01

I uh I don't know, man.

Paul G 44:02

I just think he killed everybody around him rather than himself. Well he ended his life. Even if he would have got away with it, he still ended his life. Because everything he knew was around those people.

Andrea 44:16

Yeah. I don't know if he had any brothers or sisters. I couldn't find anything on that. But basically, he was buried in a pauper's plot in Lincoln Memorial Lawn in Farner, Lincoln County.

Paul G 44:29

Let's dig it up and burn the bones. What do you think?

Andrea 44:32

I think that there's probably something sacrilegious against that.

Paul G 44:35

I don't think it mattered to that guy. I mean, he didn't care at all.

Andrea 44:38

Do you want to bring the ghost back out of this creepy dude?

Paul G 44:40

No, that's what you salt and burn the bones.

Andrea 44:43

Have you ever seen Supernatural? Not a whole lot of those. But if you look at this guy, though, he looks like a just like a looks like an asshole from what I'm saying. Well, he's like a beard mustache mountain man.

Paul G 44:59

Yeah, looks like an asshole.

Andrea 45:01

Not all beardy men. They're not all assholes.

Paul G 45:03

This guy, though, looks like an asshole. He looks like one of those dudes is like I'm not talking to him because he's just a prick.

Andrea 45:10

So I don't know if he made um legal history by making, you know, us half have to have appeals for death penalty people. Um, but I just can't get over like his extreme. Like I couldn't find anything on his child is like what spawned this controlling bullying kid into controlling his family and his wife and having a child with his daughter. Like what made you become that? I could not find very much on this childhood. And I'm sure somebody out there in podcast lands could probably email us and to give us a whole list of stuff that I couldn't find.

Paul G 45:53

But well, when it comes to this cat, I've known guys like him, and I've sometimes felt like this guy. I mean, I'm not saying I'd kill anybody because I wouldn't. Uh but I he he's just full of contempt for everyone. You think he's no one's better than him, and he's getting his ass handed to him on a daily basis, so it must be their fault.

Andrea 46:16

So is he just so full of contempt and rage that he lost his dad at a young age and he has a stepdad that we don't know. I don't I couldn't find hair or nerve if he was an abusive home or not. Some people are just jerks. But I mean, I re something that chat brought out, but I can find not anything substantiated. Is he grew up poor, unstable household? It said father died of suicide. But I found another thing saying he died of a stroke. So, like I'm saying. Wait a minute.

Paul G 46:41

Hmm.

Andrea 46:42

And then mom mom is domineering and abusive. I found that in chat, I could not substantiate the resource of it. So I don't know. And I don't want to say that yay or nay about that, because I couldn't find anything about that.

Paul G 46:55

Yeah.

Andrea 46:56

But I don't know if the chat's just saying that because it wants to be nice, or if it's saying that because it wants to fit into every serial killer narrative.

Paul G 47:04

Well, I mean, he built a closed system based on isolation, sexual domination, more than likely. You know, in a hierarchy because he was uh took his military service. I mean the highest enlisted rank, the second third highest enlisted rank, I think it is, is what he made. And everybody does what he says. Even junior officers do what he says.

Andrea 47:29

So he took that home with him.

Paul G 47:31

I mean that's that's the world he lived in. And um it's it's more, yeah, you I think you you nailed it too on the beginning, uh loss of control more than just rage. He wouldn't necessarily angry as is he was all his control was taken away. Uh you know, he didn't have any random targets, he killed people he knew.

Andrea 48:00

I did read one report stating that um when Sheila left, he went after the next oldest daughter, and how she, I can't remember her name, brought um people over to the house to spend the night. And when these friends were over, they noticed that she had locks from the inside of her room.

Paul G 48:19

She locked his ass out.

The Workplace Shootings In Russellville

Andrea 48:20

Yeah, and she would try to like tell her friends that her father was not always um nice respectful privacy, yeah. Yes, I kind of makes me believe that if he abused one, then he would go to the other. But I really couldn't find anything else to well, I guess there wasn't time for that to come out because I mean, you know, the the the the baby that he had with her was six years old, she moved out of the house. Uh there's no CPS records, you can't have access to those. Those are private. I mean, there was nothing in the police report stating that there was any more incest other than with Sheila. So I would imagine he went to the other kids and it just well, he killed them all before anything came out.

Paul G 49:04

Well, you know, they were growing up, they're gonna leave the house, he's no longer gonna be in control.

Andrea 49:10

Well, Sheila, his beloved daughter slash girlfriend, uh is married and has another child.

Paul G 49:17

Yeah.

Andrea 49:18

So, I mean I don't know. It's creepy.

Paul G 49:23

Just an asshole.

Andrea 49:24

Yeah, but that he is.

Paul G 49:27

That's the way it works, though, I guess. Some of these guys are just jerks.

Andrea 49:32

There's our rave music.

Paul G 49:34

Yeah. I don't really it's not good for the ending.

Andrea 49:39

No.

Paul G 49:41

I can't play the others because we'll get a copyright strike.

Andrea 49:44

And then we'll have to pay him money.

Paul G 49:45

No, wait, they just take our money.

Andrea 49:47

Well, we don't have any money right now.

Paul G 49:49

Yeah, if we if we get all of a sudden got a million listens.

Andrea 49:52

Yeah, and they'll take our money.

Paul G 49:54

Yeah. We won't have any money. Oh well. Just faded off into the background.

Andrea 50:03

Not it. So what do we got coming up?

Paul G 50:08

I don't know. We got um I mean, there's a ton of stuff, to be honest with you. And what I was looking at, uh, there was a couple of cases I was looking at. And uh, you know, I I'm thinking I want to do like uh unsolved.

Andrea 50:27

Okay.

Paul G 50:27

Let's find something, but let's find something unsolved that you know, the person that may have done it doesn't live down the street, because that was one reason why we didn't do one of the episodes.

Andrea 50:36

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We didn't want them coming and knocking on our door and us becoming a statistic ourselves.

Paul G 50:41

Yeah, I don't want to have that problem. Thank you very much.

Andrea 50:45

I did find some stuff though that I wouldn't mind covering, but I don't think I could get enough to really talk about.

Paul G 50:49

Who's Bobo?

Andrea 50:50

Oh, we already covered her.

Paul G 50:52

Oh, yeah, that's right.

Andrea 50:54

But um one about a torso or uh something like washed up in and bit in Beaver Lake.

Paul G 51:00

Oh, yeah.

Andrea 51:01

I don't know if we can get enough to cover that.

Paul G 51:03

It's gonna be no well, yeah, but we might actually get a cop or two that might talk to us.

Andrea 51:08

Okay.

Paul G 51:09

I'm gonna have to do some heavy research and some controlling. You know?

Andrea 51:14

Yeah.

Paul G 51:14

I said if you want me to stop calling you, talk to me.

Andrea 51:16

Yeah. Come on, Ben County. Carol, Washington, Madison, all your people.

Paul G 51:22

Well, foyer too, is tough.

Andrea 51:25

Yeah, foya's not working well.

Paul G 51:28

Anyhow. I'm still doing my episodes of Paul G's Corner, if you haven't heard those, those are pretty cool. You wanna wanna learn a little history? It's only about ten minutes. You don't have to wait an hour.

Andrea 51:37

They're good though.

Paul G 51:38

And it's just me. So if you want Andrea to do one, you're gonna have to let us know.

Andrea 51:43

I don't think they want me to do one.

Paul G 51:45

Okay.

Andrea 51:46

They might. I don't know. You need to tell me, guys. I don't know. I don't know what I don't know.

Paul G 51:53

What don't you know?

Andrea 51:54

A lot of things, I'm sure.

Paul G 51:57

Alright.

Andrea 51:59

We've both been sick, so yeah, if we sound a little f froggy, that's because we've both been ill.

Paul G 52:04

Yeah. Try not to cough this whole time.

Andrea 52:07

Yeah, I'm sure you'll hear me coughing at least once or twice.

Paul G 52:10

So if you like the show, if you wanted to get some swag, I've got some really interesting crap. I mean stuff over there at the uh Paul G Newton.com uh website, Paul G Newton.com, right? You know that. That's me. And you'll get to see what I do for a living, which is there. And then Web and E-commerce, I do that stuff now too, by the way. Uh but you click on uh get your swag and you can actually get the CSI Walmart parking lot unit Arkansas Division.

Andrea 52:39

Which is pretty funny.

Paul G 52:40

It's a t-shirt for you. And then Andrea's favorite that says Ask me about murder or donuts. Honestly, she mixes them up.

Andrea 52:47

I like Squid Wars, Squid Wars.

Paul G 52:48

Squid Wars?

Andrea 52:49

Yeah.

Paul G 52:50

Squid Wars. And then, of course, I've got the the perfect shirt that says exactly what I think about the world. And it says, apparently we've always been like this. When a nuclear bomb going off around some Roman soldiers, some dude from Victoria era era, and you know, you and I standing there watching it burn. Because that's what happens. Anyhow, what else?

Andrea 53:16

I think that's it. I'm trying to figure out what our next case will be.

Paul G 53:19

All right. I guess we're gonna go then.

Andrea 53:22

Yeah, we're open to suggestions if there's anything else you'd like us to cover or something.

Paul G 53:26

Email us at Vol G at Volg Newton.com. And uh I think that's it. All right.

Andrea 53:34

All right, bye.