Bodies in the Back Room: The Jacksonville Funeral Home Scandal

A funeral home is supposed to be the one place that runs on dignity, routine, and trust. Transfer. Refrigeration. Service. Closure.

In Jacksonville, Arkansas, that trust snapped.

In this episode of Things I Want To Know, we start where the damage actually lived: with the families who paid for care, waited for answers, and later learned what state inspectors said they found inside Arkansas Funeral Care. Not rumor. Not internet folklore. Documented findings that turned a private moment into a public scandal.

We walk through what the state documented, what families later alleged in civil lawsuits, and why criminal charges can collapse even when the facts make your stomach turn. Then we get uncomfortably practical about the system itself: what Arkansas law actually requires, where “timely disposition” turns into a loophole, and what you should ask before you ever sign a contract with anyone handling your dead.

This isn’t a ghost story. It’s a trust story. And the bill always comes due.

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Transcript

Studio Chaos And Setup Woes

Paul G 0:04

You know what? I hate this. I do. I absolutely hate it.

Andrea 0:14

That's not gonna ding it if we if we're gonna do it.

Paul G 0:17

I made this in in this in a mini blow. I feel like my blood pressure is coming. I feel like my levels are gonna pop out of my head. Okay. It's awful.

Andrea 0:36

I feel like we need to go to a rave or something.

Paul G 0:38

Yeah. I have to help it recorded because it looks like it, but I can't see any levels anymore because I got it turned down so low.

Andrea 0:45

Oh wow. He does he uh Paul's is the expert at operating the board, the computer, all this good stuff.

Paul G 0:52

I had to turn it down low because we get echo in the room. I need to put up more padding.

Andrea 0:58

Yeah. That and I'm at the one end of the desk and you're in the center of the desk, so you can see both screens.

Paul G 1:05

Yeah.

Andrea 1:05

I'm on a pad so I can see everything. Because if not, I can't and have to lean over and look at the computer screen, and I can't do that and the mic at the same time because we'd be right next to each other.

Paul G 1:14

Yeah, and then you'll hear me and her at the same time, and it sounds bad. Yeah, you are the I have to point the microphones away from each other.

Andrea 1:21

Yeah.

Paul G 1:22

That's why Joe Rogan doesn't sit kill cozy with this person that he's talking to. They sit like four feet away from each other.

Andrea 1:29

Because they have to. I figured that out because the mics.

Paul G 1:31

Yep, yep, yep. So we don't always do the uh uh murder in mayhem. We just most sometimes we just do mayhem.

Andrea 1:39

Yeah. Well you picked this one.

Paul G 1:41

Well, I didn't pick this one. I gave you a choice of three and you said do this one.

Andrea 1:45

I guess because it was the most mind-blowing to me.

Paul G 1:48

I've heard of it before.

Andrea 1:49

I vaguely remember.

Paul G 1:51

Well, I mean, I've heard it happen in other places before.

Andrea 1:54

Maybe that's why it sounds familiar.

Paul G 1:55

Yeah. It's a con it's it's it there was one in Texas where they were supposed to anyway.

Andrea 2:01

Well, probably you tell our audience what we're talking about.

The Case Reveal: Arkansas Funeral Care

Paul G 2:03

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That would help, wouldn't it? Yeah. Maybe? I don't know. Should we tell them what we're talking about? It probably wouldn't. That might help, wouldn't it?

Andrea 2:12

The fact that this happened in Arkansas and it's probably happened in other states, it makes you kind of reconsider when you lose a loved one exactly what's going on.

Paul G 2:21

Yeah, so the funeral business is quite interesting because they're dealing with dead people. And one of the biggest questions that this story is gonna give us is what happens if someone can't pay? Ooh.

Andrea 2:35

You know, when I lost my dad, I mean, I had to take basically they kept him until I could pay it. And I mean, that was my first time ever have to be in charge of that.

Paul G 2:45

So we're gonna return them to you if you don't pay. That would be bad.

Andrea 2:49

But I mean, seriously, what do you do if you can't afford a funeral? Because I mean, I didn't do the no-frills cremation. I had to take out money out of my 401k just to go down to Florida, and then I also had to pay for his funeral. It was about 9,000, and that was pretty cheap.

Paul G 3:04

That was just for the cremation, though.

Andrea 3:06

Just for cremation, and I they didn't know.

Paul G 3:08

Yeah, people don't understand how expensive it is anymore.

Andrea 3:10

I mean, and my dad didn't have life insurance or nothing like that, and that's what all I could do because that's what his wishes were, but it cost like 30 grand for my father's funeral.

Paul G 3:19

And mother's still paying another almost 20 for the headstone.

Andrea 3:23

Yeah, like my daughter passed away, granted that was a you know $50,000. That's a truck. The family chipped in that because it was a stillbirth, and it was like one of those things where like uh the ex-husband's side of the family chipped in, but I had a goldfish die once. This is a little different.

Paul G 3:39

It cost me two cents. Two cents. Yeah, because I had to flush twice.

Andrea 3:42

You can't do that to a human. But um I didn't get a headstone for her until like ten years later because I couldn't afford it.

Paul G 3:52

Yeah.

Andrea 3:52

You know, and I she has a just they have a marker out there, but when I got the marker back, it was like all bent from the lawnmower.

Paul G 3:59

Oh my god.

Andrea 4:00

I mean, they can't help it. I mean, at least they got a mow. They got a mow, you know, and I no I still have the marker, but what do you do if you can't afford this?

Paul G 4:10

Yeah, that's a big that's a big thing. So anyway, um, it turns out that oh my gosh, this is a just this is just kind of horrible, to be honest with you, the whole thing.

Andrea 4:21

What county is it out of? Like in Pulaski County.

The Cost Of Grief And Paying The Bill

Paul G 4:23

This is out of Jacksonville, Arkansas, which is in Pulaski County. Um it was the the business was called Arkansas Funeral Care. And if you live in Arkansas, you probably, especially in the corridor, you probably know about this already. And we're just gonna go over because it's like, oh my God. So Arkansas State Board of Embalmers and Funeral Directors, right? That's you have to be a member of that to be able to do anything. And um well, the nursings have to have a license.

Andrea 4:56

They have they're called the Arkansas State Board of Nursing. They have the board of Board of Nursing?

Paul G 5:01

Yeah, board of nursing.

Andrea 5:02

That's what they call it. And the never mind. I heard and they but they have one of because I thought, well, who how who becomes a funeral director? I know you gotta go to school.

Paul G 5:11

But I mean, like you gotta you gotta embalm people. You can't just use you know, I mean You can't willy-nilly it. Yeah, I don't think you can, can you?

Andrea 5:19

It wouldn't be legal or ethical.

Paul G 5:23

Yeah, well, I think that's a good thing. So basically what this You can dig a hole, boss. Here you go. I got a backhoe. $400.

Andrea 5:34

Oh god. So what kind of started this off? Is they is Jackson, is it Jacksonville you said?

Paul G 5:42

Jacksonville, Arkansas.

Andrea 5:43

Is that a small, small town?

Paul G 5:44

Yeah, it's out of Pulaski. So it's it's not really it, it's a suburb.

Andrea 5:50

Of what little rocker?

Paul G 5:51

I think so. Call me on that. I'm gonna have to look it up because I forgot between the time I looked it up just two seconds ago and now I'm like, oh, I can't remember. And I'm looking for is the man's name again because I know I had it and then now it's gone. I did all my research earlier and I have it all sitting here in front of me, but because we do so much research, stuff gets lost in the shuffle, you know? Um my gosh.

Andrea 6:19

Here it is. Uh charges against Leroy and Rodney.

Paul G 6:23

Yeah, I'm looking for the victim's family though, remember?

Andrea 6:25

Oh yeah.

Paul G 6:27

And so we just kind of go through these things with a fine-tooth comb and we end up over overkilling it sometimes. So that just imagine yourself. Your family member's dead, right? And you know you expected it, it's coming, right? You take them to the funeral home, and they tell you just how much it's gonna be, and you're like, Well, I don't know if I can afford that. So they do like they did with Andrew and they keep them.

Andrea 6:58

It was a week. But I I mean, it was a week, and I wasn't even allowed to I was advised not to watch him be cremated because he sat in refrigeration for a week.

Paul G 7:08

Yeah, that's probably not good. And uh so and you think everything's then then you pay him and everything you think everything's taken care of. But come to find out that no, it's not. So these guys got in the the these guys at this funeral home got so backed up, I guess.

Andrea 7:39

I guess since they're north of it is north of Little Rock, I just like that.

Paul G 7:42

Yeah, yeah, that's what I thought.

Andrea 7:44

Is this like a popular funeral home that you just don't have enough space or staff?

Discovery Of Unrefrigerated Bodies

Paul G 7:50

Well, it's one so one of the staff guys, he decided that he was a little disgruntled because he knew that they were getting behind. And he told um he told Leroy Wood, the manager and co-owner of this funeral home, that they were you know, he needed to get this done. And he said I'm g it's gonna take me extra time. And Leroy told him no. And the reason he told him no is because they didn't want to pay overtime. What? Exactly. So because that, and then Edward Snow, the funeral director, this is all in the court docks, and I got it off of uh one of our K-U-A-R, K-A-T-V, K-A-I-T, the A P. This is where this information is coming from. They t told Edward Snow, said, I'll take care of it. You go home. And what he did was kind of stacked people in the corner. So that the employee complained to the state of Arkansas. So this is uh they're mishandling bodies. So the state who um Leslie Stokes is her name. She's the investigator inspector with the state board. She goes in and visits, and they found twenty people.

Andrea 9:34

Whole people?

Paul G 9:36

Whole people in the fridge, and some of them just laying around in the room at room temperature.

Andrea 9:46

Okay, my first thought is you're coming to take care of your loved one, and you want you go into a funeral home, and won't you don't want the first thing that hits you is I smell death. But if you leave somebody out of refrigeration for a while, that smell doesn't go away.

Paul G 10:05

I mean It sticks to everything too. You can't hardly clean it off.

Andrea 10:10

No, I remember when my dad's rings, they told me to sit them in a solution of laundry detergent and dawn, like the liquid stuff, and sit it in there for 48 hours and then take it out. And he said, if you still smell something, put it back in. Yeah. Because that it was on him for a week.

Paul G 10:28

Yeah. Or or or however long he was in the house too before they found him. Yeah, he was so it was like four or five days.

Andrea 10:37

Then they found him. Then he was on refrigeration for a week.

Paul G 10:40

Then well, then he was yeah. So it was a good two and a half weeks of yeah.

Andrea 10:45

And that smell does not go away easily.

Paul G 10:49

No, it it embeds and everything. Because as humans, we're we're hardwired to smell it, so we run away and don't go over there.

Andrea 10:58

But if you have these bodies just laying out uh there was twenty. If they're that busy in that backlog, people are still coming bringing their loved ones. Won't you be like, I don't like this place because it stinks? I mean just trying to be honest here.

Paul G 11:12

Like, I'm there unbalmed bodies stored at room temperature, bodies stacked in a cooler. These are people, not bodies. Like they they they're distancing themselves here. These are people, human beings with names, social security numbers, kids, dogs, cats. Loved ones. Yeah. And severe decon and they were already severely decomposing.

Andrea 11:36

Yeah, because after sitting there. After a while, the gases and stuff float up, you start to look a little better.

Paul G 11:42

Authorities removed thirty bodies.

Andrea 11:44

Thirty bodies?

Paul G 11:46

Thirty plus is what the report says. And multiple sets of cremated remains. So they cremated them but didn't give them to the families.

Andrea 11:56

Why not?

Paul G 11:57

I don't know. Well, they didn't pay.

Andrea 11:59

Oh God.

Paul G 12:00

Yeah. Yeah. The employees described that a volume backlog and bodies being placed wherever space was available.

Families, Delays, And Botched Services

Andrea 12:09

This reminds me of the horror film where like the lady like uh is with her kid has cancer. I can't remember the name of it, and then you know, the kids having issues, and then the bodies are in the walls of the house. This is what I'm visualizing.

Paul G 12:21

Well, can you imagine you go in there to look at a casket and it's like, hey, there's somebody in here? Yeah, I mean That's how I visualized it.

Andrea 12:30

But this is like human beings. I mean, I understand businesses get backlogged. I understand people can't pay, but isn't there some don't we as a state or I don't know, have some sort of like, okay, if you don't pay within, I don't know, two weeks and refrigeration, we're gonna cremate them and keep his ashes.

Paul G 12:48

But then but then but then you get into it, but it's no, it's a custodial. This is the one time when it's a custodial relationship. So uh funeral work is custodial, right? Which means it's one of the few industries where the customer cannot verify the product at the moment. They don't know what they bought. One of uh and then it keeps accepting bodies though, is that what the problem was. So they can't like So they can't do anything with it because there's specific rules.

Andrea 13:18

They can't say, uh, like the hospital, no, I'm on divert, go to the next funeral home.

Paul G 13:21

Right.

Andrea 13:21

Like, you know, the emergency room is full of the case.

Paul G 13:23

They could, I guess, but they're not doing that here.

Andrea 13:26

I would think, wouldn't you have some sort of ethical, humane ability to be like, I have no more room, this isn't the right thing to do. You need to go to the next funeral home in the next town. I would think if a funeral home came to me and explained, hey, I know you want your loved one to come here, but I don't have the space or the capability or the time, I would be like, okay, then we're rec recommend me somewhere else.

Paul G 13:49

I mean I mean, there's the good news is that multiple families filed lawsuits against these people.

Andrea 13:55

Well, yeah, you find out grandma's all refrigerated. I mean, I think But what I don't understand is if you Grandma, are you here? Are they only doing funerals for the people that have paid and the people that are not paying, they're just No, because the families that were pay that paid for the services found that they weren't being done on time.

Paul G 14:13

Multiple families um they the funeral services were delayed, not performed, or mishandled completely.

Andrea 14:21

Okay, delay uh I would want to reason. Mishandled. I wonder what that's defined as.

Paul G 14:26

I don't know. Do it well, maybe that's the court problem. It's a court rule. It's a court wording, yeah. Mishandled. What is what does the court say? Um because they pled guilty and this never went to court. Oh you can't prove you didn't do this. I mean, there's 20 people laying around inside the you know, unrefrigerated. Yeah, there's no oopsie going on here. You did it.

Andrea 14:48

Oopsie, I got caught. So therefore the details are not gonna get brought out because there is no trial.

Paul G 14:53

Correct.

Andrea 14:53

That makes sense.

Paul G 14:54

Um, I mean, you can't do this kind of stuff, man. I'm sitting here just thinking to myself, golly, that's gotta be a mess.

Andrea 15:06

I mean, and the families that uh what do you okay, you find out that uh your loved one was unrefrigerated.

Paul G 15:15

James Cummings was one of the guys that died, and his family, James. Uh you can he was he was the one that they that got all over the news, his family did. Uh his body was left unrefrigerated for eight days.

Andrea 15:31

Oh my.

Paul G 15:32

And they paid for their services and they didn't do it.

Andrea 15:36

Okay, that makes no sense.

Paul G 15:38

Yeah.

Andrea 15:38

It's a business.

Paul G 15:40

Yeah. And in at least one named case, a family alleged their loved ones' body was in were so this is another case. So there's more than other ones, yeah.

Andrea 15:51

What do you do in that situation? If they're that far decomposed, can you still embalm them to even do an open I don't think so because the fluids, there's no fluids.

Paul G 16:00

I mean the fluids have mixed and things have.

Andrea 16:02

I mean, I don't know. My I dad wanted to be cremated, so I never had to ask that question. But it makes me wonder like, were they not given the type of proper funeral that they wanted? Because certain religions do not believe in cremation. And if you leave them open refrigeration, are you forced to cremate?

Paul G 16:21

Yeah. So the the thing about it is that the company pleaded to five felony counts.

Andrea 16:26

Just five when they had 30 plus bodies? Yeah, I know.

Criminal Liability Vs Corporate Blame

Paul G 16:30

Well, one count can include all the bodies. Oh, that's true. Depends on because it depends on the law. It's like murder, you'd have to have 15 murder victims, but if the law says if you do this, it's bad. That's one thing. It could be one thing, yeah. Um but the charges against the owners personally were dismissed. And I don't understand why they would do that.

Andrea 16:53

I think they're just as culpable as the people who own, I mean, the corporation or whatever that owns a funeral home.

Paul G 17:01

Yeah.

Andrea 17:01

You have a sense of ethics and morals, I would think, to want to do the right thing for an individual because you're in that profession, I would think, because you care. I would hope. You know?

Paul G 17:12

Obviously, they didn't care.

Andrea 17:15

But what I don't understand is if you want to get paid, okay, do the ones that are paying first and then work with the families that cannot pay, but uh have some I don't I don't get this.

Paul G 17:26

So it says criminal law needs a specific person tied to a specific act. A felony charge is abuse of a corpse. It sounds broad, but Arkansas says that it requires proof of a particular person knowingly mistreating a particular body.

Andrea 17:43

So you gotta know what you're doing.

Paul G 17:44

And the evidence showed that it did not consistently show hands-on conduct by the owners. So the only person that could be put in jail for this would be the person who actually did it. And the people who work there couldn't do it because they didn't have time or the allocated resources, so they did the best they could, which is the best which is could be considered abuse of a corpse. However, it's mitigated by the fact that they could only do what they could do because they don't have ownership of anything in that place, they just work there. So getting putting this poor guy makes 14 bucks an hour working in a funeral home in jail because he couldn't deal with the situation.

Andrea 18:37

Because his bosses above him are telling him to do it this way because of X, Y, and Z.

Paul G 18:41

Yeah, and then the the law is not it's not structured to where you can put the boss in jail because he didn't touch the body. It becomes a legal issue precedence. You'd have to make new precedent, which is a lot harder than people think it is. If you don't know, uh the United States legal system works. You know, I was surprised when I heard this, and I was and I'm still appalled by it. United States legal system mostly works off precedent.

Andrea 19:11

It does, and you can change that.

Paul G 19:13

And you know this because you're a paralegal.

Andrea 19:15

You can change it, but it it's extremely uh you you've got to go in there and really plead the case on why you need to set a new precedent. And it I remember it's very difficult to do. And every state, some states are easier than others. You have to find a previous situation that matches the current situation to show that like this is what happened in like 73, this is what we're gonna do now because that's the law and that's the precedent.

Paul G 19:38

Yeah. And it's ridiculous, isn't it? Well, that's why you can beat the UI charges in some states, because somebody got released off of one and they got the got the uh uh got the charges dropped so you can claim that precedent without having to prove your side, and your sometimes those cases will get dropped.

Andrea 20:00

But you need a good defense attorney that can bring that out the way it should match.

Paul G 20:06

So yeah, you can do that in most minor offenses because all minor offenses have been adjudicated in one way or the other. So all you gotta do is find the precedent and you can walk.

Andrea 20:16

But this makes me wonder like if there's no account there's accountability, but not really, then what's to stop this from happening again? I mean, obviously what they got backlogged, but who told them not to do the right thing and like defer other people to other funeral homes?

Paul G 20:31

Because Leroy and Rod Wood, the two owners of the business, uh they weren't physically embalming, refrigerating, or moving bodies. To convict them criminally, prosecutors had to prove that they personally handled the remains because of the way the law is written. Or they knowingly ordered specific illegal acts, which they did not because they just all they did was deny overtime. Right? They denied the extra shift or they exercised direct hands-on control at the moment the abuse can occurred, which they didn't because the worker is the employee is just trying to find the best thing to do with what's happening right now, and they're not following the law, but no one told them to do that. So the only person that's legally re legally that you can legally hold accountable is the guy who moved it, who's making 14 bucks an hour.

Andrea 21:28

And that's not really fair to him.

Precedent, Proof, And Why Owners Walk

Paul G 21:29

No, that's not fair to him. And I don't think I don't I these guys they've more than likely the the attorney general of Arkansas stepped in. And I am pretty sure that the attorney general found that these dudes are just trying to do the best they can.

Andrea 21:41

Yeah.

Paul G 21:42

And they're not they're up against this, and and so is a funeral home a standalone or it's owned by a corporation? It was a standalone owned, it was a corporation of itself. So you know, you LLC something, that's a corporation. Yeah, yeah.

Andrea 21:57

But my think thought process is someone had to say no over time, that person, but they didn't touch the corpse of the moment.

Paul G 22:04

Yeah, so the law, like I was saying, precedent. There's no precedent for it, so they can't they they they can't.

Andrea 22:10

Well, obviously they pled guilty because they probably were forced, I want to say like highly like if you plead guilty, we'll like drop some something off your charges or we'll drop your time or we'll do whatever.

Paul G 22:21

So the company's the one that pleaded guilty because the wrongdoing occurred within the operation, which at that point they're hands-on as a corporation.

Andrea 22:32

Yeah, they're the ones that said no overtime.

Paul G 22:34

Well, they're the ones they're responsible. Companies are responsible for everything an employee does. So if an employee breaks the law and it was implicit not in not implicit, but implied that it was the okay with the company, then the company broke the law.

Andrea 22:50

I mean that makes sense, because the company should have done the right thing to do and say, Okay, let's give you, I'll give you overtime if you can.

Paul G 22:55

Explicitly said don't do this. Yeah. But they left it vague and obtuse. No one said anything, don't they didn't tell them what to do. So they're responsible. That's the way it works.

Andrea 23:05

Because they could have changed the scenario by a diverting people to other funeral homes and b um doing overtime to not cause this to become an issue.

Paul G 23:17

And then they and and then on top of that though, they did take Edward Snow to court. And the funeral director, Edward Snow, who was most directly tied to the day-to-day operations, he did go to trial and the jury acquitted him.

Andrea 23:32

Why?

Paul G 23:33

Ah man.

Andrea 23:35

I mean, can they not did they str did the I guess I can see the defense attorney be like really stretching it, saying he didn't touch the body, he didn't physically do it, he had nothing to do with this, therefore he's not culpable.

Paul G 23:45

The the jurors when were asked said they weren't convinced that the state met the intent and knowledge thresholds required for a felony, because it was a felony conviction of Edward Snow.

Andrea 23:59

Oh God. Well, uh at the same time, it's like somebody has to be held accountable because this is just wrong across the board.

Paul G 24:08

Yeah. And the good news is though, the civil lawsuits don't require that level of of proof.

Andrea 24:13

Yeah, they don't have to.

Paul G 24:14

What is it, nine jurors?

Andrea 24:15

I think so. I can't remember the Arkansas ones.

Paul G 24:18

There's only nine jurors on the on the thing, and you only have to convince a majority.

Andrea 24:23

Yeah, I want I can't remember if we're a complete majority state or if we're I don't remember Arkansas law very well off the top of my head, but it's been a while since you were paralegal. It's been a while since I've had to look that up. But I mean, civil, you can get away with a lot more. You don't have to prove is big beyond reasonable doubt it's hard.

Paul G 24:39

All the jury has to do is say, you know, look at the dick. I'm gonna give them money.

Andrea 24:44

Well, they have to prove that there was something bad.

Paul G 24:47

Not necessarily the jury can do whatever it wants.

Andrea 24:49

Well, think about OJ Simpson. He didn't get it, you know.

Paul G 24:52

He didn't get convicted, but yet they took all his money.

Andrea 24:54

In civil court, they just might as well he might as well just gone to jail.

Paul G 24:58

I mean He did go to jail eventually, but that was for beating somebody up, if I remember correctly.

Andrea 25:03

But yeah, they got him in civil court. Yeah.

Paul G 25:05

Yeah. Umriminal court requires proof of who did what, when, and with intent.

Andrea 25:15

Yeah, you gotta prove intent.

Paul G 25:17

It's weird because sometimes you don't have to prove intent. Yeah, I mean Did you intend to be drunk? You know, did you intend to drive your car?

Andrea 25:29

But yet you can still get manslaughter charges because you hit somebody.

What The Law Requires And Its Gaps

Paul G 25:32

Yeah. So you know, I mean if it's an accident, you can get manslaughter charges. Did you intend to play place this man's life? No, I it was an accident. I didn't mean to. I wasn't drunk, and everything was legal, and they still can put you in manslaughter.

Andrea 25:47

Yeah, and you still can serve prison time for manslaughter.

Paul G 25:50

Yeah, well, you hopefully.

Andrea 25:51

Well, right. I don't know these days. Sometimes manslaughter, who knows? But the court systems in each state.

Paul G 25:58

So my question is, what happened to all the people?

Andrea 26:03

Yeah, what do you do? Like, who who cleans this up? I mean, do like all the local funeral homes get together and be like, hey, we're gonna do overtime now, we're gonna take care of this and do the right thing? Or what happens? At least my thought process is and this sounds at least they're a whole intact person, not parts.

Paul G 26:23

Yeah. But then my next Well, I don't think they were any of them were parts because this funeral home, they're not gonna take you're not gonna bury someone's arm.

Andrea 26:32

But my next thought process, who tells the family?

Paul G 26:36

Oh yeah, that had to be the state.

Andrea 26:38

I mean, can you imagine you're like, you know, waiting to w when you're going to bury your grandma, and then they come in and be like, hey, uh, your grandma's been unrefrigerated for like nine days.

Paul G 26:50

So they said that the state authorities removed the bodies and cremated remains at the already cremated remains after the emergency suspension, because they suspended these guys completely. Rightfully so, obviously. I hope so anyway, right?

Andrea 27:03

I hope they don't get their license back. No.

Paul G 27:06

The commonly cited uh numbers uh 31 bodies and 22 sets of cremated remains. And they were removed, but they didn't no one really said where they went.

Andrea 27:18

I guess they would go back to the family if they're cremated. Be like, hey, here you go.

Paul G 27:23

I know that you were not able to pay, but So the County got involved with it and dispersed it out. The problem is they gotta have to pay twice. They already paid him, money's gone.

Andrea 27:35

Oh, I didn't think about it that way.

Paul G 27:37

So I you know, what are we gonna do with that?

Andrea 27:40

I mean, how does that work? Do obviously they couldn't some people could not pay to begin with, and that they had they did the right thing and cremated and they just kept them on like a a shelf. I don't know.

Paul G 27:51

Yeah, they're still gotta find places to put them. Like in Carroll County, the coroner is the local funeral home guy.

Andrea 27:59

Yeah, I don't know for a fact on that one. No, I do know that.

Paul G 28:01

I I talked to I I talked to a Benton County coroner employee at Casey's. Remember me telling you about that?

Andrea 28:08

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Paul G 28:09

In he c you know, in in in Benton County, Arkansas, the coroners carry guns.

Andrea 28:14

Why? I well, they're going into crime scenes. Oh you hopefully the person that did the crime is not there.

Paul G 28:21

Or dead.

Andrea 28:22

And the dead person and the dead person can't come up and shoot you, so we're not gonna be. I don't know.

Paul G 28:25

I mean they could be in uh you know an immortal.

Andrea 28:29

This is in New Orleans.

Paul G 28:31

Yeah.

Andrea 28:31

We were just looking at New Orleans over there.

Paul G 28:33

You were looking at New Orleans. You were like, I want to go to New Orleans and see the French Quarter.

Andrea 28:37

I've never been there.

Paul G 28:38

I said, well, let's play the lottery. Maybe we can get enough money to go.

Andrea 28:41

It'd be nice. One of these days I'd like to go.

Paul G 28:44

Um, but yeah, no, the you don't I don't mean the coroner probably was one of the funeral home directors, honestly, because that's what it is in Carroll County.

Andrea 28:56

I wouldn't want that job because if you need like forensics, you want someone that actually knows no offense to the coroner out there, but you're not a CSI, you know, Vegas guy.

Paul G 29:06

You that's you're you embalm people for a living.

Andrea 29:10

Hence one of our Carroll County cases, that's probably why it's not been solved. Exactly.

Paul G 29:15

I'm not trying to sound mean here to anybody's listening, but at the same time, these these counties don't have that kind of money because this is Arkansas. We have two and a half million people living here.

Andrea 29:27

Yeah.

Paul G 29:28

And we're bigger than New York.

Andrea 29:31

And it's very much farmland on the east side of it.

Paul G 29:34

Well, and we got northwest Arkansas, which is like a big medium-sized to large city.

Andrea 29:39

And you have Jonesboro, which is on the east side near Memphis. And then Little Rock, which is all we're pretty much known for because that's all everybody knows.

Paul G 29:46

It's a small city.

Andrea 29:47

Compared to everyone else, comparative other places, yes, it's very small, but to us it's huge.

Paul G 29:52

It's not huge to me.

Andrea 29:54

You lived in LA, so there's that.

Paul G 29:56

In Seattle.

Andrea 29:57

So yeah, there's that.

Paul G 29:58

You can't get a moment of privacy anywhere.

Andrea 29:59

Well, uh Dallas was like, I guess, considerably considerably bigger than Little Rock.

Backlogs, Inspections, And Weak Oversight

Paul G 30:05

But I didn't know But it's so spread out, it doesn't feel like LA. LA it's houses, businesses, houses, factories, businesses, highways. It never ends.

Andrea 30:15

Dallas Metroplex, one city literally runs into another on the same block.

Paul G 30:19

Well, yeah, Dallas Fort Worth. I mean, they have to call it Dallas Forth Worth, but you don't know when Fort Worth begins and Dallas ends, unless you're downtown where you know the cows start running around.

Andrea 30:30

I think there's one highway I remember distinctively knowing you can tell when you enter. But if you take like another highway, you know.

Paul G 30:36

Yeah, if it's a state highway, you're not gonna be able to tell.

Andrea 30:38

Yeah. I mean if it's a state highway, no.

Paul G 30:41

Yeah, so here we don't have that kind of money, folks. Arkansas doesn't have that kind of money. No, we don't have that kind of money. Our surplus is like a billion, which seems like a lot, but when you figure out that uh California's uh welfare system is twice the GDP of Arkansas.

Andrea 31:00

It's also a bigger state. Well, California, yeah.

Paul G 31:05

So and then you know, four fourteen times the population. Uh Denver Metro has more people living in it than the state of Arkansas. That's just Denver.

Andrea 31:16

That's mind-blowing.

Paul G 31:17

And that's not even counting Boulder. That's just Denver Metro.

Andrea 31:20

So, note to self. I don't want to be murdered or I don't want to be like, you know.

Paul G 31:25

I don't want to be murdered anyway. Well, you know what I'm saying?

Andrea 31:27

Like, no one's gonna solve it because we don't have anybody that can. I mean, our police Well we do.

Paul G 31:31

We have people that can.

Andrea 31:32

It's just our police departments are better than them when they than they were when we grew up. We grew up here.

Paul G 31:38

I mean, they've gotten a lot more um I don't want to say like technology that makes us sound bad, but no, technology is part of it and education's part of it. But you know what it takes to get a criminal justice degree back in the 80s? About six months.

Andrea 31:52

Wow.

Paul G 31:53

Yeah, because they didn't really have them. It was called something else even. And now two years community college.

Andrea 32:00

Yeah, and then if you want to become a cop, you gotta go in the two years community college. Go to the academy or whatever.

Paul G 32:06

You don't have to have any law enforcement experience for a city to hire you as a police officer.

Andrea 32:12

That can be scary at the same time.

Paul G 32:15

There is a state law that says they have to have something now if you're a certain size, but if you're like monette. That's Missouri.

Andrea 32:24

That's teeny tiny. Like you can breathe and it you're out of the town.

Paul G 32:27

It's so tiny. Yeah, in you know, Holiday Island.

Andrea 32:31

Yeah, yeah, there's like nobody out there.

Paul G 32:34

There's like five thousand people living there though.

Andrea 32:36

Yeah, but if you need if I needed any assistance, I've just uh I'm just outside the line, a polyon in the county. There's one cop for probably the whole county.

Paul G 32:45

Oh, at night shift on during the week? There's three, maybe three cops in the entire county. That's as that's like what 500 or I don't know how many square miles it is. Yeah, it's not little.

Andrea 32:57

It's mind-blowing to other people who come from big cities.

Paul G 33:00

Yeah, you want a cop, you ain't gonna get one.

Andrea 33:02

911, you better off self helping yourself.

Paul G 33:05

So these guys got these they they got these people to give them their money and their relatives, and then they just didn't do anything about it. They just kind of blew it all off. And I wonder if that could happen again. There was one in Fort Smith that happened, right?

Andrea 33:27

Uh I don't honestly remember. I do know when I read this, I kept saying, Have we talked about this before?

Paul G 33:35

Yes, because it happens more often than not, actually.

Andrea 33:38

But I mean, you most people don't know or like I did, or haven't been around or experienced any of that stuff before until you had to, so you don't know what's normal and what's not. You don't know what to expect. So if a regular turnaround time for someone that passed away to a funeral is typically like three to four days, if it's like you know, nobody knows that if that is. They don't know there's nobody that knows the normal sense of how this goes.

Paul G 34:05

This happened again in Heavenly Rest Funeral Home in Little Rock in 2000.

Andrea 34:10

Maybe that's why it sounds familiar.

Practical Advice For Choosing A Funeral Home

Paul G 34:11

And then again, and uh there's uh individual little cases all across the state uh in the 90s.

Andrea 34:23

You're backlogged.

Paul G 34:24

Okay, I can understand if you live around Little Rock, okay, you might be backlogged, but do the right thing in Saint- Yeah, they said I don't know, they said they were backlogged because they had a a higher level of people coming in. And and I'm like, what happened? So they're going out, what what's going on here? They never the they never went out and killed the that would be an interesting story if we could I'm thinking about that. That's a good story to write as a mystery. Why are all these people dying?

Andrea 34:49

You're a funeral home director and you want to give yourself business? Yeah.

Paul G 34:53

That's a great murder mystery. What are you talking about?

Andrea 34:55

Oh god. Well, I'm sitting here thinking, like, uh if you're that backlog, send them somewhere else, like I said.

Paul G 35:01

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, I wonder if that's a law. Hmm. I wonder if any laws have been come out for for any you know what I mean?

Andrea 35:11

I it takes forever for a law to pass.

Paul G 35:14

Not really.

Andrea 35:15

It feels like it.

Paul G 35:16

I mean, I wrote some help write legislation for um the insurance law in the in the early 2000s. So it's not that long.

Andrea 35:25

Yeah.

Paul G 35:26

Because I was hanging around John Woods, who's now in jail.

Andrea 35:29

Well, there you go.

Paul G 35:30

Yeah. Well, he was in jail because he's stealing money.

Andrea 35:35

But I mean, I can and this sounds bad, but I can almost I told him not to, by the way, if anybody's listening.

Paul G 35:41

He did it anyway. I'm like, you idiot.

Andrea 35:43

Are you backlog because you're money hungry and you want to make money? So you're getting these people in and hopefully they're paying you, and but you don't have the resources or the ability to do the job. But you want the money. So I'm surprised if that's the scenario that they didn't get them on some sort of like financial type of, you know, break contract kind of thing.

Paul G 36:05

So um what they officially did after this is the Arkansas State Board of Enbalmers and Funeral Directors, they said that they uh will use emergency suspension powers faster.

Andrea 36:20

Okay.

Paul G 36:20

Right. They didn't write any new laws. Um and they're now making them report more about their capacity versus intake.

Andrea 36:30

Okay. Okay. That's you can fudge that though.

Paul G 36:33

Yeah, that's easy. And the uh and they're emphasizing the documentation and refrigeration compliance, so they're they're monitoring that a little bit more. If they did it just as bad, if they did it like they do with the food service people, they might actually keep up with the stuff.

Andrea 36:48

Oh my god, have them post like I don't know if this happens everywhere. It's in the it's posted in the paper here about what restaurants got in trouble and for what. And I don't know if that's nationwide, but it's here in where we live. And so what they're gonna have that about what funeral homes got busted. I mean, if it's like the food industry where it becomes public knowledge, for this industry does it become public knowledge.

Paul G 37:11

Right. And then you just put it in the paper. Such and such funeral home has 25 people today.

Andrea 37:16

And God six of them are not refrigerated. Well, they're but I mean, um I would think that they would get inspected the same thing as the food industry, and same thing as a hospital. We have certain types of regulations in national entities that come in and do inspections, and you gotta be on your cut.

Paul G 37:35

That's the Arkansas State Board of Embalmers and Funeral Directors, and they they license funeral homes, embalmers, funeral directors, and crematory uh operations. And and the funeral home is legally required to do is obviously be licensed and staffed by licensed individuals, hopefully. Uh employee, yeah, operate within the scope of those licenses, it says I don't well what the hell is the scope of those licenses? Anyway.

Costs, Headstones, And Prepaying Pitfalls

Andrea 38:04

Well, it's like with nursing, you have to operate within the scope of your practice. Same thing with them, you have to operate like a tech. I'm assuming they have techs there. There, I'm just guessing here. I honestly don't know, but I'm just for for reference here. Like an person who's been trained in embalming is allowed to embalm, but if you have a tech who hasn't been trained in embalming, they're not allowed to embalm because they haven't, that's out of their scope of practice.

Paul G 38:27

So what it doesn't, the law does not do, it does not require them to publicly disclose any backlogs. They don't have mandatory family notification if a funeral home is overwhelmed. They don't have real-time inspection reporting or third-party audits. So then there's not a lot of liability for the owners.

Andrea 38:51

So this could happen again, essentially.

Paul G 38:53

Oh yeah. Uh the only way something's like that's gonna happen is if the inspector comes by.

Andrea 39:02

So what happened in this case probably is either the A, the employee did the right thing.

Paul G 39:08

Yes, the employee is the one that set it all off. Or B That's probably why they didn't get uh they didn't get any criminal charges because they're the one that told.

Andrea 39:16

That's probably true. Or B, the employee's like, I you're not paying me enough for this blank blank blank. I know you guys are doing wrong saying, I'm gonna turn you in. So the employee either got mad or he did the right thing.

Paul G 39:30

Hmm. I guess. Yeah, no, the employee did the right thing. And he got mad because he was trying to help these people and they weren't letting him.

Andrea 39:40

But I can see a disgruntled employee doing something silly like that and be like, hmm, well, I'm just gonna like tell on you because you know you won't give me a two dollar an hour raise, so I'm gonna bust you.

Paul G 39:50

Well, that's probably part of that too.

Andrea 39:51

I mean, I mean, I don't know where they get paid. I don't have no idea.

Paul G 39:54

But I mean, um So it's Arkansas Code Title 17, chapter 29.

Andrea 39:58

Okay.

Paul G 39:59

This is the things I I want to know. This is what I do. When I want to know something, I dig.

Andrea 40:03

You do.

Paul G 40:03

In maybe too much, I guess.

Andrea 40:06

You and chat have a very unrecognizable bond. That's unrecognizable bond.

Paul G 40:11

It's not it doesn't have hands, so I'm okay. It can only stroke my ego, and my ego can only take so much stroking.

Andrea 40:17

Well, we I think you and chat are sometimes have a love affair. You're such a couvert.

Paul G 40:24

Well, just you know, you should be happy because then I don't bother, I'm not bothering you.

Andrea 40:28

Oh, yeah. Considering I'm about to go back to school, that might be helpful.

Paul G 40:31

Yeah, she's going to be a pseudo doctor.

Andrea 40:34

No, I'm going back to school to be a nurse practitioner nurse practitioner.

Paul G 40:38

Pseudo doctor.

Andrea 40:39

And specialize in mental health.

Paul G 40:41

That's just so she can deal with me.

Andrea 40:44

I like how my kid goes, Are you gonna like psychoanalyze me? I said, I don't know, maybe.

Paul G 40:49

Yes. I would say yes, very much so. I have power now. Once I get that, I will have power to institutionalize you. So behave.

Andrea 40:59

I'd be curious to know what I what I learn in school and how it applies to the podcast.

Paul G 41:04

Oh, you're gonna learn a lot. I mean, when it comes to that stuff. It's gonna be mostly just meds, though, you said.

Andrea 41:09

I don't know.

Paul G 41:09

All the nurse practitioners I've ever used were always just pill farms, honestly.

Andrea 41:15

Well, I don't know. We'll see. We'll see. It'll be definitely an interesting two years.

Paul G 41:19

So Arkansas code is uh it says uh State Board of Embalmers, obviously, licensing, stuff like that. Uh I'm looking for it real quick here. Care custody and handling of human remains, the immediate custody duties named in the law. Once the remains are accepted, the funeral home becomes legally responsible for the remains.

Andrea 41:45

I mean that makes sense.

Paul G 41:46

That's good. Remains must be protected from deterioration caused by neglect. I would think that would be like number one.

Andrea 41:54

Put them in the refrigerator.

Paul G 41:55

Yeah. Identification must be maintained at all times.

Andrea 41:59

Yeah, that would make sense. You don't want to put the wrong person in the wrong casket.

Paul G 42:03

This the rule requires them to be embalmed or placed in the refrigeration. You have to be embalmed.

Andrea 42:11

Which I I guess I can revoke that, but I'm a still on a fan.

Wind-Down, Humor, And Closing Notes

Paul G 42:14

Yeah. The rules allow delay if disposition is imminent. What does that mean? Imminent is not numerically defined. Reasonable under circumstances is the fallback language, so allow if disposition is imminent. What are they talking about? This is where the law gets unclear. Um don't know what that means. Right, right, right. Uh they gotta maintain the sanitary conditions and all that garbage, keeping an eye on who it is, right? Um I'm just worried. I'm just interested in the law. So it used to be that you had to be buried in three days if you weren't cremated. I wonder if that's still true.

Andrea 42:55

I don't know.

Paul G 42:56

I know not cremated, but embalmed.

Andrea 42:59

Well, my dad wasn't embalmed, so no. He was cremated straight away.

Paul G 43:04

But that's also Florida, Florida.

Andrea 43:06

Yeah, Florida's different, so yeah. I mean, I I don't know with Arkansas, like I what is the rules?

Paul G 43:14

I mean uh your dad's was what It was almost a week, but he was in a refrigeration.

Andrea 43:20

Yeah, refrigeration. And he was involved. Yeah, so that he was fine because you know that, but I don't I don't know how that works. Like, is there a rule? I mean, what happens to people when they pass away that they can't find family and they're sitting in a funeral home and they can't be identified? What do you what do you do then?

Paul G 43:37

Wow. So there's no statutory three-day rule in Arkansas that that I can find.

Andrea 43:42

Okay. Um probably takes longer for life insurance payments to come through to pay for that.

Paul G 43:49

Under the rules, a body must be embalmed or placed in proper refrigeration. That's the only requirement. Seems to be continuous, not time-based. Okay. Timely disposition is a standard. What does that mean? Reasonable time without unnecessarily delay.

Andrea 44:06

I guess what it means is like you put them in refrigeration in a timely basis, probably from the moment you take custody of the body to the moment that it goes into the ground that it's.

Paul G 44:16

So they can't okay, here's where I got this from. Two days unembalmed without refrigeration is illegal.

Andrea 44:23

Really?

Paul G 44:24

Yeah. Ten days unembalmed with proper refrigeration is pretty much as far as you can go. Okay. Thirty days unembalmed with and with refrigeration can equal a violation.

Andrea 44:38

So basically they need to find they need to do something within like ten days.

Paul G 44:44

Any decomposition that happened once they take possession of the person uh is it illegal.

Andrea 44:50

So wow. So if you find a person that you're trying to find next to kin, people gotta work quickly.

Paul G 44:56

Yeah. Well, I mean, as long as they're refriger it can be refrigerated up to 30 days and then they have to be involved and then refrigerated again.

Andrea 45:05

So wow, yeah, yeah. Because I I I don't know, like, how long do you hold on to somebody if you can't find family members?

Paul G 45:11

I don't know.

Andrea 45:12

I guess maybe that's if it's not a state rule, maybe it's a funeral home type of um policy and procedure.

Paul G 45:21

Hmm. Interesting.

Andrea 45:24

But then again, what do you do for cases that for bodies that for autopsies and things like that? How long do you hold them for a criminal investigation before you have to embalm them or let them go? I don't know.

Paul G 45:36

There's probably a it's probably a carve out for that because it's you know, it's criminal investigation. Yeah. They usually get those they they want to get the body to a forensic scientist as fast as possible. They send it to the crime lab that day.

Andrea 45:51

Arkansas crime labs aren't exactly very fast.

Paul G 45:54

Well, yeah, but they got 30 days of unbalanced refrigeration. Think about that.

Andrea 46:00

Yeah.

Paul G 46:01

But you have 30 days and it's not not illegal. And they they're not first off, that's for funeral homes. That's not for the crime lab.

Andrea 46:08

That's true, it's two totally separate instances.

Paul G 46:09

Yeah, so the crime lab can do whatever they want because they're not a they're not a funeral home.

Andrea 46:15

They're not whole they're holding different standards.

Paul G 46:16

Yeah, they're not held underneath the the those idiot or those crazy people down there. I don't know. I mean, there's a lot of places now too that uh Oh man. There's so much in this funeral business stuff that's interesting.

Andrea 46:33

It is interesting that makes me like I mean, uh God forbid some in our life passes away anytime soon, but it's gonna def I'm definitely gonna sit there and think a little bit differently when I go into these kind of situations because I mean I'm not saying every funeral home in Arkansas is bad or across the US, we're not saying that, but it's gonna make me think a little bit more like I wish knowing this, that maybe I would have been a little bit more persistent. Like I would want to see the person and I want to make sure that the right person is going in the right casket, and I would want to double check everything.

Paul G 47:05

I would always tell everybody to get a vault. Because whenever you're getting buried, that's one of the things that I keep thinking about. What about the vault? They build a concrete vault around you, and they put you in the vault. I think you need the vault, keeps you out of the water table.

Andrea 47:23

But I'm thinking like the whole process, I'll I will like I mean, do you go and check five-star ratings on these people?

Paul G 47:29

I mean, what do you Well, you know, Luganville? My family's been using Luganville since the beginning of time, basically.

Andrea 47:37

Yeah, your mom knows them really well.

Paul G 47:39

Yeah, they all went to school together. Yeah, so they And at the moment in time, 2026, they're a good funeral home.

Andrea 47:47

Yeah.

Paul G 47:48

But things change. People die, uh new owners come in.

Andrea 47:53

The son may not look at it in the same light as the father did.

Paul G 47:56

Oh no. I mean, I think he does. He does.

Andrea 47:58

I mean, he was a very nice man.

Paul G 47:59

I mean, but at the same time, they're having a funeral, so who in the hell knows what they're doing?

Andrea 48:04

You it makes me want to double check and be more acknowledgable and everything because I guess my first words out of their mouth would be, Are you backloged?

Paul G 48:14

How many bodies do you have back there right now?

Andrea 48:16

Do we need to go to somewhere else? Are you not going to have time? I mean, seriously. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because nobody thinks about that. Nobody thinks about like their business too. So it's it's more than just you that they're taking care of.

Paul G 48:29

Yeah. And pay for your funeral now.

Andrea 48:31

Yeah.

Paul G 48:32

Because it's going to get more expensive tomorrow.

Andrea 48:35

Yeah, I have a life insurance policy on me. I have a life insurance policy.

Paul G 48:39

I'm saying if you have the money, buy your funeral now. My grandmother bought her funeral in the 70s.

Andrea 48:47

Smart woman.

Paul G 48:48

She didn't die until the 2000s. So she paid like $1,500 for a $30,000 funeral.

Andrea 48:56

My grandma bree did the same thing. She barely paid on hers after my grandpa died. I was like four. She paid on hers, and she told me when I was before she passed away at 17. She died when I was like 18. She goes, I want everything taken care of so nobody fights, and it's all paid for, and nobody has to pay to put me in the ground.

Paul G 49:14

Yeah.

Andrea 49:15

And she's got a valid point there.

Paul G 49:17

Yeah, no, I mean that's the way to do it. And she she paid nothing. And she would have got the same funeral back then, but the things it costs more now.

Andrea 49:26

Oh, everything.

Paul G 49:28

That you have to put someone in, the headstones have gone up more than inflation. Back then you can get a headstone because they made them locally. Now they don't. You have to send off for it. And a lot of times they're made in China.

Andrea 49:39

I remember your mom talking about that, happen to she had to wait until they had like what the stone in or something. Six months.

Paul G 49:46

Six months. She had to wait six months before the before the headstone even came in. Now she's gonna have to wait another two months before they can get the engraving done.

Andrea 49:54

Wow.

Paul G 49:55

And it cost her like $19,000.

Andrea 49:58

I think I paid $3,000 for my daughters, and it was a simple, simple one. It wasn't anything fancy.

Paul G 50:04

It's because it's supposed to last the test of time. It's granite or whatever.

Andrea 50:09

Yeah.

Paul G 50:09

You know, it's it's a heavy-duty stone, you gotta send off for it. But at the same time, a lot of these things aren't a lot of them aren't even made here. Then again, I saw the one when I went to I went to the funeral home in Springdale.

Andrea 50:21

Oh gosh.

Paul G 50:21

I was uh I was in there because we were trying to the guy was trying to get me to sell funeral policies. I was an insurance agent at the time, and I'm like, whatever. But I went in there and listened to him. And in the back.

Andrea 50:34

Uh-oh.

Paul G 50:35

It was interesting. I walk back there and look, and I was like amazed. There was a Dale Earnhardt casket. Well with his number on it and all the painting and everything. You could be buried in a Dale Earnhardt themed casket.

Andrea 50:51

I guess if you really, really love NASCAR like that, I mean, if it's what your dad is.

Paul G 50:55

It's just a wrap on top of that, you know what I mean? It's like if Dale Earnhardt was in there, sure, then that might be worth it.

Andrea 51:02

But I think for me, like when you were telling me some of the stuff about because I didn't I didn't have to go through any of that with my dad because we knew what we wanted, we were gonna do all that stuff. I didn't have to know anything about cremation other than you know, he's gonna be in this box, he's gonna go in. I didn't have to look at any of that stuff to know the prices. But it's mind-blowing when you were showing me these pictures. I'm like, it's a box. Why do you even have to have all this plush stuff in it?

Paul G 51:27

It's for the living, it's for the people who are left, not for the person who's in there.

Andrea 51:32

That's a lot of money for the living.

Paul G 51:34

Well, the living require a lot of money. I mean, we you know I asked the guy uh one time back when I was driving my Mustang. I said, How much would it cost to get buried in my Mustang?

Andrea 51:44

I remember you talking about that.

Paul G 51:45

And he's listening to looked at me like I was crazy. I'm like, I'd have to have four plots. Just bury the Mustang with me driving it. I mean That'd have been funny.

Andrea 51:55

Maybe they have a Mustang themed casket.

Paul G 51:58

No, I'm gonna hex the actual car I was driving.

Andrea 52:01

I know, but I'm thinking like now we'll get the theme casket for you.

Paul G 52:04

No, the uh no, I don't want that. Uh put me in a wicker basket with the pina colada in my hand and cigar.

Andrea 52:13

What's that movie when the two guys drive around with a dead guy?

Paul G 52:16

Oh, the weekend at Bernie's.

Andrea 52:18

Yeah, that kind of thing. Yeah, no, I don't want that. Okay.

Paul G 52:20

Just and just stuff me and stick me in next with the jukebox?

Andrea 52:25

No, I don't think I could do that. Do you think so? No.

Paul G 52:28

Do I have a wake just to make sure I'm not dead?

Andrea 52:32

No. Or do you want the little bell like taped to your hand? Yeah.

Paul G 52:36

Yes, please. That'd be fine. I don't need that. Yeah, well, no.

Andrea 52:40

You don't.

Paul G 52:41

They can I I'd still bury it in my car.

Andrea 52:44

That's hilarious.

Paul G 52:46

A thousand years from now, somebody's an archaeologist going back to see what our society was like, and they dig up my tomb.

Andrea 52:55

It's your car.

Paul G 52:56

Skeleton grabbing hold of my car. That's all that's left of a skeleton and a leather coat. That's crazy. That'd be something I'd do. So you are going back to school for it's gonna take you a couple years, and you're going to become a nurse practitioner. And uh, you promised me a Porsche if I let you do this.

Andrea 53:22

Yeah, if I can afford a Porsche.

Paul G 53:25

No, she didn't. So you're supposed to fight back on that. I was like, no Porsche, man. I don't know. You said to you said you'd buy me a Porsche. And I don't want a Porsche. I was kidding.

Andrea 53:35

I know you were kidding. That's why I said yes.

Paul G 53:37

Oh, I see, I see, I see, I see.

Andrea 53:40

No, I think it'll be good for me.

Paul G 53:42

So you're gonna move into private or to uh clinic practice once you're done. Once you're thinking.

Andrea 53:47

That's what I'd like to do, yeah.

Paul G 53:48

The psychiatry, right?

Andrea 53:50

Yeah, mental health, yeah.

Paul G 53:51

Mental health. Again, she's doing it because of me. She just wants to figure out what the hell we're crazy person she's shacked up with.

Andrea 53:59

Right, you like stronger drugs, I'm teasing.

Paul G 54:01

Yes, please. Stronger drugs, let's go.

Andrea 54:05

When do I start?

Paul G 54:09

And she's also worried because she wants to go eat. Are you looking for food or are you like just keep looking at your watch?

Andrea 54:15

Because it keeps going off.

Paul G 54:17

Oh, somebody texting you?

Andrea 54:18

No, I was saying that we have this smart thing on our washer and it keeps dinging me, telling me that the Washer's done.

Paul G 54:23

Washer's done. Your clothes have been in here for 30 minutes.

Andrea 54:26

Yeah, pretty much that kind of thing.

Paul G 54:27

Yeah. Until somebody was texting whenever somebody texts her, it's usually her kids and they're complaining or asking about something.

Andrea 54:33

Not so much anymore.

Paul G 54:35

It used to be.

Andrea 54:35

It used to be, yeah.

Paul G 54:36

And that's why when I go, what's happening now? Every time she gets a text message, she thinks she's like, no one's trying to talk date me or anything like that. And no one's anything. Like, no, it's usually your kids saying that they've destroyed something or they're begging for money.

Andrea 54:50

Which they don't get either.

Paul G 54:52

They used to.

Andrea 54:53

Well, they were also a lot younger, didn't work. So there's that.

Paul G 54:56

Yeah, they got their own jobs. Go by, go away.

Andrea 54:58

Yeah.

Paul G 54:59

Well, one of them doesn't have a job, but they're in school and they have their sugar daddy, so.

Andrea 55:03

Yeah.

Paul G 55:04

Well, literally.

Andrea 55:05

Yeah, well, I don't I I don't really know what to make of that situation.

Paul G 55:08

If you want a sugar daddy, at least pick one that has more money. Not some podunk, you know, Arkansas guy.

Andrea 55:14

I don't know. I mean, it's teach their own.

Paul G 55:17

And she didn't drive either, so whatever.

Andrea 55:19

Yeah, exactly. I love her to death, but you know, I she didn't listen to this stuff.

Paul G 55:24

Doesn't have time for it. Right?

Andrea 55:27

I don't know if they do or not.

Paul G 55:30

So let us know if you like this uh topic and when it's just rambling about stuff. I didn't know. I mean, this is just awful that this happened to these people's relatives.

Andrea 55:40

I can't imagine if I was like having to hear that about my loved one, I would be devastated.

Paul G 55:44

And true crime doesn't always mean somebody's dead or missing. This was a crime. What they did was a crime. Felonies happened.

Andrea 55:55

But it makes me worry it might happen again.

Paul G 55:58

It probably will. Just about or when, right? Yeah, it's but I can't play outro music. I have to play this stuff again. I hate this music. I know, we gotta We're gonna have to do something else.

Andrea 56:10

Well, it's hard for us to pick because anything we like is copywriting.

Paul G 56:15

Yes. Yes. I have to make it.

Andrea 56:17

And then with the free stuff either sounds like this, yeah, or it sounds so slow that it's not, it's just put somebody to sleep.

Paul G 56:28

Exactly.

Andrea 56:29

But this might make one make people get up and dance. A little peppy.

Paul G 56:33

Or shoot themselves.

Andrea 56:35

Nobody do that.

Paul G 56:37

Don't do that. Even if you feel like it. It's not worth it. Tomorrow's a new day.

Andrea 56:41

Exactly.

Paul G 56:42

I hate this music.

Andrea 56:43

Well, turn it off. I did. Okay. It's bad. Well, we'll find something else because our Curious George song is copyrighted in Ice. Yeah, we can't play it anymore. It sucks. It's okay. He wrote the thing. He deserves it.

Paul G 56:55

I know, but I paid Artlist for the rights, and now I can't use it anymore.

Andrea 57:00

Maybe the guy got got popular and he wants to keep his stuff for himself.

Paul G 57:03

Nate Rose did not get popular. No one really knows who he is.

Andrea 57:07

I mean, I don't know.

Paul G 57:08

That's who did it, Nate Rose.

Andrea 57:10

But it's a funny song, that's why I like it.

Paul G 57:12

It's yeah, this fits fast because I want to know everything.

Andrea 57:15

Yeah, I need to know everything.

Paul G 57:16

Yeah. Alright. What else? Anything?

Andrea 57:19

I think that's it.

Paul G 57:20

Pluto's a jerk.

Andrea 57:21

Yeah, you heard him in the background. That's our dog.

Paul G 57:23

Yeah. The sky is a wuss. Well, that's the other dog. She's and then Cortez, or as I call her, bitchy kitty.

Andrea 57:32

Yeah, she's your cat. She's not my cat. She's a whore cat. She likes men. Women just like.

Paul G 57:37

Yeah, she likes men. She's a female cat who likes men. She's she's a slut cat. What?

Andrea 57:43

Nobody wants to hear about her pets. It's a slut cat.

Paul G 57:45

Yeah, they do. You're crazy. Every time a guy comes over, every time, Bitchy is right on top of him and going the whole time.

Andrea 57:55

Yeah, she wants attention.

Paul G 57:57

She's always angry.

Andrea 57:58

Yeah, she sounds angry.

Paul G 58:00

Very angry cat.

Andrea 58:01

I don't think she's really angry angry.

Paul G 58:02

She used to be.

Andrea 58:03

Oh yeah.

Paul G 58:04

She's all she'll be sitting there and just having a good time and then all of a sudden she'll sit up and run off. All upset and angry.

Andrea 58:13

Well, her name touches her.

Paul G 58:14

Because I didn't pet her.

Andrea 58:15

Well, her name touches.

Paul G 58:17

She's like a bad girlfriend. Okay. I've had a bad girlfriend that did that. If you didn't talk to them, they you never talk to me anymore. You don't tell me anything. I was like, because you suck. Please stay away. I've asked you not to come back many times.

Andrea 58:35

All right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right. It's happened. I think every man Remember that one?

Paul G 58:41

She's like shows up at two o'clock in the morning all dressed up and drunk, thinking that she's gonna get there. What I did, I'd let her sleep on the couch because she was drunk. And I went in my room, just when I live by myself, lock the door. Yeah. About 30 minutes later, I hear this, and she couldn't get in my room. And about 15 minutes after that, I got up and looked. She's left. Well, she only came over for a piece of the pole.

Andrea 59:05

I don't need to know all this stuff now.

Paul G 59:08

But I didn't want her there. That's bitchy. A bad girlfriend. It's mad when you won't give them what they want. Well, she's a kid.

Andrea 59:20

All right. I think that's enough talking about cats, females, and the piece of the paw.

Paul G 59:27

The piece of the paw. I'm gonna put that on a shirt.

Andrea 59:30

No.

Paul G 59:32

Okay. All right, I guess that's it then.

Andrea 59:35

All right. Bye.

Paul G 59:36

Bye.