182. Supporting Moms with Valerie Probstfeld, RN, MSN, FNP-BC

In this week's episode Colette sits down with Valerie Probstfeld, RN, MSN, FNP-BC who is an advocate for moms.

Becoming a mother is a transformative experience, but for Valerie, it was also a profound paradigm shift. In this episode, she shares how her journey into motherhood took an unexpected turn when her first baby had to go to the NICU. Despite preparing and envisioning the motherhood experience, she quickly realized that control was an illusion.

Valerie reflects on the emotional and mental toll of that period, how being referred to as "mom" in the hospital felt both beautiful and identity-altering. She explores the verb "to mom" and how, for her, it became synonymous with love. Through writing and deep reflection, she navigated feelings of trauma, OCD, and the weight of responsibility, eventually finding empowerment in spreading awareness and advocating for other mothers facing similar challenges.

Inspired by her own experiences, Valerie founded To Mom Is to Love (www.tomomistolove.com), a platform dedicated to redefining what it means to be a mother. She emphasizes that mothering is not just a role but an active expression of love, care, and resilience. Through her writing and advocacy, she encourages mothers to embrace both the joys and challenges of motherhood.

As she continues to process her journey, Valerie shares the biggest lesson she learned, while we can't control everything in life, we can always choose love over fear.

Episode Highlights:

03:03 Valerie's Grandmother's smile: the powerful impact it had on her mindset

12:56 Valerie's insight to her performance as a mom and her intentional choice to change generational patterns

18:03 Valerie's to-be-published book: coming together as a community with a growth mindset

22:46 Leading with more love and less fear

Key Takeaways:
 

- The illusion of control in motherhood and the importance of surrender

- The emotional impact of the NICU experience and identity shifts
- Defining "to mom" as an act of love and resilience
- How advocacy and awareness can help other mothers feel less alone

Connect & Share:

If this episode resonated with you, share it with a fellow mom or someone who needs to hear this message. Let's continue the conversation about the emotional journey of motherhood, advocacy, and choosing love over fear.

Get to Know Valerie:

Valerie Probstfeld, RN, MSN, FNP-BC, is a nurse practitioner, writer, flutist, and podcaster. She is the founder of “To Mom is To Love” (tomomistolove.com) a community that encourages mothers to live their verb and promote love as an action. Valerie graduated from Bradley University with degrees in nursing and music. She also received her masters in nursing from Yale University. Valerie has experience in a variety of medical settings including pediatric neurology and primary care. 

Website: https://www.tomomistolove.com/

Podcast: https://www.tomomistolove.com/podcast

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQhKAdlZP8_tq2-zv3CqhrQ

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/valerie_probstfeld/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/valerie-probstfeld-23022448/

______________________________________

Connect with Colette:

Instagram: @wellnessbycolette

Website: love-colette.com

Thank you for listening to the Limitless Healing podcast with Colette Brown! It would mean the world if you would take one minute to follow, leave a 5 star review and share with those you love!

In Health,
Colette

Transcript

 [00:00:58] My next guest is a nurse practitioner, writer, flutist, and podcaster. She's the founder of To Mom Is To Love, a community that encourages mothers to live their verb and promote the love as an action. Valerie graduated from Bradley University with degrees in nursing and music. She also received her master's in nursing from Yale university.

[00:02:20] Colette Brown: She has experienced a variety of medical settings, including pediatric neurology and primary care. She is a light in this world. She's also a mother and just a beautiful soul spreading a good message. It is my great honor to welcome Valerie Probstfeld. Welcome Valerie. 

[00:02:37] Valerie Probstfeld, RN, MSN, FNP-BC: Thank you so much for having me, Colette.

[00:02:39] Valerie Probstfeld, RN, MSN, FNP-BC: It's an absolute pleasure. 

[00:02:40] Colette Brown: It's great to have you. And we connected and we started talking about so many similarities that we have. And I love the work that you're doing right now. But what I love to do with all my guests is to get to know you a little bit better. So if you could take us back to a favorite childhood memory.

[00:02:59] Colette Brown: That you have that may have helped shape you to who you are today. 

[00:03:03] Valerie Probstfeld, RN, MSN, FNP-BC: Thank you so much. And I really appreciate this opportunity to talk to you. And I would say what comes to my head quite as far as one of my favorite childhood memories is my grandma. And I actually was just thinking about her recently.

[00:03:18] Valerie Probstfeld, RN, MSN, FNP-BC: And she was just a beautiful light in my childhood. And I, when I remember most about her was her smile and she was always smiling. And I knew that was unconditional love. I knew that when Grandma was smiling, it just evoked feelings of warmth, of safety. And I try to smile at my children the same way and think of Grandma when I'm smiling.

[00:03:42] Valerie Probstfeld, RN, MSN, FNP-BC: And it's really, I feel like, helped promoting that legacy as well, of a smiling legacy, as opposed to sometimes if I'm frustrated or angry or something, that like maybe we're running late. Pausing and saying, you know what, it's okay right now. Let me just take a moment and realize how fleeting this is.

[00:04:02] Valerie Probstfeld, RN, MSN, FNP-BC: Smile, even if I don't feel like smiling. Sometimes just evoking that memory, evoking just those muscles, then can help me feel that way. So it's like tricking my brain in a sense. And that all started with my grandma. So that's what I would say is one of my favorite childhood memories. And she did it all the time and I just loved it every time she did.

[00:04:22] Colette Brown: I love that. And we know that things that we think become reality. And so what insight you had, starting at a young age to actually act on something that you felt. Despite science, right? And just having that positive attitude and you're now a mother of, you have three children. Yes, that's right.

[00:04:45] Valerie Probstfeld, RN, MSN, FNP-BC: Yep. Yep. I have three kids and it's beautiful chaos. I like to say, 

[00:04:49] Colette Brown: I love that. And you're a nurse practitioner and you did practice for a while. And so what. What, from after practicing, what was the transition to, was it having kids and wanting to spend more time with them and into the two mom is to love business that you have today?

[00:05:11] Valerie Probstfeld, RN, MSN, FNP-BC: Yeah. So I still am a nurse practitioner, but I don't necessarily see patients right now. I still am active and at some point I may go back to doing more patient care, but what really was. Such a paradigm shift for me was you're right once I became a mom and I think it was because My first baby she was she needed to go to the NICU and I did not Prepare for that.

[00:05:34] Valerie Probstfeld, RN, MSN, FNP-BC: I thought before I was going to be a perfect mom. I was going to be this a plus mom. I studied for motherhood. I knew exactly what I was going to do. But I said how the baby was going to 

[00:05:45] Colette Brown: act. 

[00:05:46] Valerie Probstfeld, RN, MSN, FNP-BC: You're going to be like just having an amazing time. And it is amazing. But just there is so much that you can't control.

[00:05:54] Valerie Probstfeld, RN, MSN, FNP-BC: And I did not it. I didn't know anything about releasing control prior to this experience, really. There were some things here and there, but it was just so obvious once she was taken to the NICU that my control was an illusion. And I did not know what to do with that. I did not know at all. And I wrote a lot during that period over the next couple of years, and really wrote about just motherhood and what it is to be a mom to me.

[00:06:24] Valerie Probstfeld, RN, MSN, FNP-BC: Like everyone I remember in the hospital and the NICU stay wasn't too terribly long, but it just really made an impression on me. They all would call me mom and which is fine. I do, that's something we hear a lot in healthcare. Like they'll ask mom, how are you doing? Mom, do you need something or whatever.

[00:06:39] Valerie Probstfeld, RN, MSN, FNP-BC: But it felt like it was almost this night and day transition of like I came in as Valerie and then as soon as my baby was born, I was mom and mom. It's a beautiful name, but it's not my only name. And I think part of us is like. Gets lost once we become a mom and trying to peel back those layers or maybe it's a new evolution of what we are now And so I wrote a lot about that.

[00:07:03] Valerie Probstfeld, RN, MSN, FNP-BC: I wrote a lot about the verb to mom Because I didn't even know that was a verb like Miriam Webster defines to mother as to give birth allow oneself to rise care for or protect And when I thought about that, like what gives birth, what allows oneself or family to rise, care or protect, that's love.

[00:07:23] Valerie Probstfeld, RN, MSN, FNP-BC: And, or at least for me, that's love. And so to mom is to love. That's how I came about that. And it just really, seeing healthcare, back to your original question, Collette, sorry that was so long winded. No, 

[00:07:34] Colette Brown: this is what we need to hear. 

[00:07:35] Valerie Probstfeld, RN, MSN, FNP-BC: I think I saw a lot I saw [00:07:38] healthcare from the patient side.

[00:07:39] Colette Brown: Much 

[00:07:40] Valerie Probstfeld, RN, MSN, FNP-BC: more so than I did prior and I saw you know, I was mom my baby was baby girl And I was attending rounds. I was seeing all these things from a different perspective and I wanted to advocate for just all the emotions all the feelings that I had I had some PTSD from the NICU. I had it was traumatic.

[00:08:03] Valerie Probstfeld, RN, MSN, FNP-BC: I feel like I didn't really understand what it was I was feeling at the time. I had a lot of OCD and stuff, too, and I just didn't really recognize it, and so I felt so empowered and so passionate to help. Spread awareness to others and to others families that we're not alone. We're not I felt so alone back then and I really just want to help share the mission that you know, we can't control life there's so much we can't control in life, but sometimes the only thing we can't control is love and It's either in the next moment, am I going to choose love or choose fear?

[00:08:42] Valerie Probstfeld, RN, MSN, FNP-BC: And that still is an ongoing learning process for me, but I think that all started in that. And so I think the things that I learned were was just as it was unexpected how much of a paradigm shift I think I got once I was in the NICU. And also I, a newfound respect For nurses, I think for a long time, I was like, Oh, I'm just a nurse Oh, like I'm being an NP.

[00:09:07] Valerie Probstfeld, RN, MSN, FNP-BC: I think I always would think I maybe I should have went to medical school or whatever it is. But gosh, those nurses, they really helped us through that difficult time. And now in retrospect, it's been almost 10 years. I, that's what I remember the most, like, when a nurse hugged me, or did these things that I think sometimes we downplay, but they're so important.

[00:09:26] Valerie Probstfeld, RN, MSN, FNP-BC: They're so important to have that advocate, that translator. I really saw it from a different side, and I think the things I learned, I want to just try to be aware of, write about, and then go back into healthcare once I figure out, what it is, the journey that God or the higher power universe or whatever is calling me to do with this passion and with everything that I learned with this loss of control.

[00:09:48] Valerie Probstfeld, RN, MSN, FNP-BC: Yeah. Throw it into my face. 

[00:09:51] Colette Brown: Yeah. No, you've said, you had said so many amazing things there and just a personal experience. My sister just had her baby yesterday as we're recording this. And one of the nurses was. The cheerleader, the coach, like she really, she got her all the way right to delivery.

[00:10:10] Colette Brown: And then they called the doctor and the doctor literally was there for, I don't know. It felt like 10 minutes literally. And then, they take the baby and they clean it up, and after I thanked her over and over, I said, you were the core of the team that really just helped.

[00:10:31] Colette Brown: There was a doula there that was amazing too, but that nurse to your point was the foundation of what made it. So easy and not easy. Obviously I was not birthing the baby, but she made it so nice for everyone. I think that's so important. And to, I think to the other point as a mom, just really accepting where you're at and not trying to compare yourself to what I'm supposed to be.

[00:10:57] Colette Brown: And you can only understand that when you're a mom. I, there, there's something. That changes inside that you just understand, okay okay, time to let go because these children are all different and I'm going to get different challenges and rewards with each one of them. So how do you walk a mom through like where was it that you said, okay, I see what's going on here.

[00:11:27] Colette Brown: You started writing. You learn the verb, you start implementing things that you're learning and. And I think it's an ongoing process, but what was that for you when you finally said, okay this is what I need to do. Moms need help. Was there a specific moment where you saw that? 

[00:11:45] Valerie Probstfeld, RN, MSN, FNP-BC: Yeah, I think actually there was a fairly specific moment and that's such a great question.

[00:11:50] Valerie Probstfeld, RN, MSN, FNP-BC: Thank you. I think that it really was when my oldest, so she, the one that was in the NICU, she was about like 18 months. Maybe two. So she was able To talk. She was fairly, verbose for her age. So I don't really remember exactly when the specific moment was, but the specific moment was around that time, able to talk.

[00:12:12] Valerie Probstfeld, RN, MSN, FNP-BC: And we, I was so controlling. And I remember being so scared to have a sitter come over. And what do I do? I don't know them. I did the whole process of What you need to do to find a sitter. And she was amazing. But I had one of those, like one of those cameras that were running, just, I was like so paranoid.

[00:12:31] Valerie Probstfeld, RN, MSN, FNP-BC: It was fine. But I remember if I forgot to turn it off, so it was running for a while. And later on that day, I scolded my daughter for, I don't remember what it was, but I remember about an hour or so later, I was thinking. I didn't really, I feel like maybe I scolded her too harshly. And my performance, my flutist background, I sometimes assess my performance.

[00:12:56] Valerie Probstfeld, RN, MSN, FNP-BC: So I was like, let me see how I sounded. And I watched on the camera how I responded or reacted to my daughter. And oh my gosh, I was so different. In real life than I was in my head. Like in my head I was like this is why I was upset. And she's not listening or whatever it was. I don't remember exactly, but it was, I was justified in my head and like it, it made complete sense.

[00:13:20] Valerie Probstfeld, RN, MSN, FNP-BC: But the only thing I saw on the camera was mom is upset. Mom is yelling, mom is upset. And really it. It sounded exactly like my mom and that, and my mom, she did the best she could with the tools she had. But that was a whole lot of why I wanted to be different. She yelled too much. I couldn't stand her yelling.

[00:13:38] Valerie Probstfeld, RN, MSN, FNP-BC: I hated her yelling. And I sounded exactly like her. And it was just this, such an eye opening moment that I'm like, Oh my god, I have to do something about this. I have to figure out how to not only let go of control, but also to understand why am I reacting in the way that I am sometimes, as opposed to responding.

[00:14:00] Valerie Probstfeld, RN, MSN, FNP-BC: So I really, with my neurology background, I love the brain, I love neuroscience, I was thinking of just how can I create new pathways in my brain with exercise, practice? Like I know it's not easy, and I know that there's so many baby steps, but I have to start doing this because I don't want to [00:14:18] pass on this generational legacy, I don't want to do that.

[00:14:20] Valerie Probstfeld, RN, MSN, FNP-BC: my Daughter, I remember her saying, I don't like your angry face, I don't like you yelling mom. Wow. Wow. Wow. It was such a gut punch. Yes. 

[00:14:28] Colette Brown: Yes. Out of the mouths of babes. 

[00:14:30] Valerie Probstfeld, RN, MSN, FNP-BC: As they 

[00:14:31] Colette Brown: say. 

[00:14:31] Valerie Probstfeld, RN, MSN, FNP-BC: I swear. And that brings me back to like even my grandma, how I searched for smiles. Like I loved her smile because I didn't, I had so much of this angry yelling face growing up.

[00:14:41] Valerie Probstfeld, RN, MSN, FNP-BC: Oh my gosh. So let me see how I can do this. And then I, just wrote about it. Like I love to write down all my thoughts and I thought about, this is like. Back road practice like I have these highways of reactions, but let me try to take a back road Into just a different way of thinking because I think with my OCD I worked on that a lot where I had to change my thoughts like I had a ruminating thought And I would think commonly like worst case scenario.

[00:15:10] Valerie Probstfeld, RN, MSN, FNP-BC: So I had to distract myself with a different thought. So with this, it was like, okay let me distract myself with something different. If I'm frustrated, how can I lengthen that space between reaction and response? Yes. Maybe try gratitude or maybe try mindfulness. So that was the moment that I'm like, I am going to write about this and I want to share this with other moms.

[00:15:29] Valerie Probstfeld, RN, MSN, FNP-BC: And also I think what's different about it is that I'm doing it in real time because none of us are perfect. And I think so much of the time we need this, like accountability, I think we can have all these experts say what this is and what we should be doing, but there's just. So much information coming at us, but in real time, here's what I'm seeing.

[00:15:50] Valerie Probstfeld, RN, MSN, FNP-BC: Here's how I'm practicing. And some days are easier than others. Some hours are easier than others, but I'm embracing the growth mindset. And like we are every day, just working on how to, just grow together. And so I would say the biggest aha moment I had and I'm. I'm still working on it, but it's something that, it's a work in progress as I feel like we all are in life.

[00:16:14] Valerie Probstfeld, RN, MSN, FNP-BC: None of us are perfect, 

[00:16:15] Colette Brown: right? I think though that we've all had moments like that. And I think collectively we all want to do better generationally. And the differentiation is who takes action and who doesn't. So That deep insight and action taking that you found within, you've now transformed it into a group and you're writing a book and you're also a podcaster.

[00:16:43] Colette Brown: So share with us a little bit about all of those. 

[00:16:46] Valerie Probstfeld, RN, MSN, FNP-BC: Oh, thank you. Yeah. With my book writing, that'll be out later on this spring or summer, I am super excited about that. my first time book, I'm very excited. For my podcast, I had started that maybe, I guess now two years ago, it's called To Mom is To Love with Valerie Probstfeld, NP

[00:17:04] Valerie Probstfeld, RN, MSN, FNP-BC: and I started out just doing kind of solo episodes talking about mental back and highways. But then I just started interviewing guests and with moms, but also with just really anyone where people are doing things that are changing the world or changing their own world with just. Innovative ideas or just working on themselves and I feel like bringing back to like health care and all of the NICU experience stuff sometimes There's just not enough time To share all the information there is out there.

[00:17:37] Valerie Probstfeld, RN, MSN, FNP-BC: Like I had an episode with a A dog therapist to like she does dog therapy or like horse therapy. I have an episode with that or for a school like there's just so many different things that I feel like we don't know about. And I tried to bring experts on that are either doing those things or they're just making their own ripple effect in their families, society or the world.

[00:18:03] Valerie Probstfeld, RN, MSN, FNP-BC: Because I feel like the more we can collectively come together And help make this world a kinder place. Being more grateful, the more we can really grow together and embrace again that growth mindset. So that's a lot of what my podcast is about, and in addition my book is about that as well. 

[00:18:20] Colette Brown: That's beautiful. And I felt like it's so important to have. Other women, moms around you, because we all go through, we're not reinventing the wheel here. Whenever there's something that we've gone through, when my oldest went to college, I reached out to moms that I knew had already gone through that. And what was that like?

[00:18:41] Colette Brown: And when I had young children, toddler age, and how do you get your kids to get along? And there are all these questions that come up and how do we do it a little bit better? and we were talking the wildfires that happened here in Los Angeles, the Palisades fire that we were affected by, and.

[00:19:00] Colette Brown: Seeing people just come together and support each other in the midst of what's going on. And it makes us readjust to our value system and what is most important. And that also helps put things into perspective. So you and I were talking about the importance of community. And that's why I love.

[00:19:20] Colette Brown: What you've created because you're taking action. And as we do this action step, it helps us grow and be better so that we can lead others who are following. And we have our eyes on people that are in front of us too, that we're trying to become better. And so I love everything that you're doing.

[00:19:41] Colette Brown: And one of the questions I asked on my guests is if today this was the last message that you had to broadcast out to the world, what would that be? 

[00:19:51] Valerie Probstfeld, RN, MSN, FNP-BC: That's a profound question.

[00:19:53] Valerie Probstfeld, RN, MSN, FNP-BC: I would say to give yourself grace. We're not perfect none of us are. And I think that darkness. and hard times, we can learn from them. And I just love I'm in the Chicago area and I lived in New England for a little bit. I love the fall and the colors. And when I think about that, in the summertime we have green leaves and that's from the chlorophyll producing a food for the tree and that's from sunlight and warmth, but the chlorophyll decreases.

[00:20:25] Valerie Probstfeld, RN, MSN, FNP-BC: When it's darker, when it's colder out, when the days are shorter. And it brings out the true color of the tree, like the yellows and the oranges. Because the green is masking the true colors. And the fall is so beautiful. And the colors are so beautiful and so unique. And it's the darkness and the coldness that brings that out.

[00:20:42] Valerie Probstfeld, RN, MSN, FNP-BC: So I think, 

[00:20:42] Valerie Probstfeld, RN, MSN, FNP-BC: We really need to just give ourselves more grace. Life is not perfect. There's going to be You know, ups and downs in life, but there's beauty in it all. And so I would say that would be like the message that I think is just so important for us all to embrace [00:20:58] sometimes.

[00:20:58] Colette Brown: Yeah, that's true. And thinking again of the fires, I would say that Looking at it from it's happening for us, not to us is so important, even though it's just been devastating and people have lost everything and are starting over. And what do you do? And the answer is you do the best that you can. And you try to have that positive spin on it.

[00:21:21] Colette Brown: And what would you tell moms or people in general that are. That have lost everything right now. And what advice would you give them? 

[00:21:29] Valerie Probstfeld, RN, MSN, FNP-BC: that community is so important. Reaching out for community. And my heart goes out to everyone who's been affected by this.

[00:21:36] Valerie Probstfeld, RN, MSN, FNP-BC: And I think about two things. But like when there's a storm, usually you we see people that are helping and that's so important with people being helpful in the community and seeing all of that around us. But sometimes like internal storms are just as damaging but we don't see it as much.

[00:21:56] Valerie Probstfeld, RN, MSN, FNP-BC: Like it can be deafening to us, but it's just as important to reach out for support with that. And have that kind of. Mental thunderstorm support as well, because I think that is so challenging. Sometimes when people don't see the damage from that, also, along lines as well community I was just thinking recently about climbing a mountain and how we always want to climb to the top.

[00:22:21] Valerie Probstfeld, RN, MSN, FNP-BC: That's we want to get to the top, but it's the journey along the way and there are, it's difficult. This journey is difficult. Sometimes we fall, sometimes we need someone to help us to get through our journey. And I think that's just so important to remember with all of this and there will be sunny days and cloudy days, but there's beauty in it and taking, again, baby steps.

[00:22:46] Valerie Probstfeld, RN, MSN, FNP-BC: Of more love and less fear. I think, like, when I break it down to days or hours that are hard, it's like breaking it down to those baby steps ofWhat's the next right thing I should be doing right now and then maybe that's just brushing my teeth or And then what's the next right thing or the next best thing 

[00:23:03] Valerie Probstfeld, RN, MSN, FNP-BC: I think these are the things we need to talk about Collette. These are the things that are so important and I think sometimes on social media, how we just present ourselves with just all this amazingness in life and life is not that way, and there's so much out there that we need to bring out to the open and help each other and lift each other up.

[00:23:24] Colette Brown: Yeah. That's such good advice. And because there are moments always of life and how we react and respond is. Is crucial. And so I appreciate that. I go back to that moment where something happened with your daughter. You reacted and you stopped and you analyzed and you pivoted.

[00:23:45] Colette Brown: So we can do that assessment with ourselves wherever we're at and just take a pulse, take a look and see what's going on here. Can we iterate and can we pivot and do just a little bit better? So I like that. 

[00:23:59] Valerie Probstfeld, RN, MSN, FNP-BC: Oh, thank you. Yeah, absolutely. And I always think of Viktor Frankl with that, between stimulus and response, there's a space.

[00:24:08] Valerie Probstfeld, RN, MSN, FNP-BC: And in that space lies our power to choose. And within that power to choose lies our growth and our freedom. And I feel like that's so much lengthening my space between stimulus or reaction and response. And that's where the growth and the freedom lies. And sometimes that space is so small, but we can always work on lengthening that space with baby steps.

[00:24:31] Colette Brown: Yes. And those of you who don't know who Viktor Frankl is, look him up. Yes. Profound. 

[00:24:37] Valerie Probstfeld, RN, MSN, FNP-BC: So profound. 

[00:24:38] Colette Brown: Yeah. Yeah. Is there anything else that you would like to share with us today, Valerie? 

[00:24:43] Valerie Probstfeld, RN, MSN, FNP-BC: No, I don't think so. Thank you so much, Colette. I truly appreciate you giving me the opportunity to come onto your incredible podcast. I love everything that you're doing. And I would just encourage listeners to, if you have the opportunity to check it out tomomistolove.Com where you can find all my writing, my book updates.

[00:25:01] Valerie Probstfeld, RN, MSN, FNP-BC: You can subscribe to my newsletter. I promise I will not. Spam, I send out emails about twice a month just with updates on the book as well as weekly podcast episode releases. So thank you again, Collette. I truly 

[00:25:13] Colette Brown: appreciate it. Amazing. Thank you. And I will put everything in the show notes so you know how to reach Valerie and to stay posted as to her book launch.

[00:25:24] Colette Brown: And please, yes. Check out her podcast to mom is to love Valerie, thank you so much for taking your time. I appreciate it. And it's exciting to see you continue your journey. I look forward to following you and seeing where it takes you because you're just such a beautiful soul. So thank you so much. And everyone else until next time be well. 

[00:25:43] Colette Brown: