Tales of Leadership
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Tales of Leadership
#104 Derik Kearns - Army Infantry SGM
Derik Kearns enlisted in the Army in 2002 following the events of 9/11. Throughout his military service, he completed two tours in both Iraq and Afghanistan. Amidst personal challenges, he has experienced marriage, divorce, and remarriage, and is now a proud parent to two daughters and a stepson. This summer, Derik will be attending the Sergeant Majors Academy at Fort Bliss, continuing his commitment to leadership and service within the armed forces.
🫡 My Why: I’ve seen the cost of poor leadership — how it can destroy morale, break trust, and in the worst cases, lead to lives lost, including through suicide. That’s why I’ve committed my life to helping others lead with purpose. Through Tales of Leadership, I share real stories and actionable insights on how to overcome adversity and become the kind of leader people remember for the right reasons.
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- Joshua K. McMillion
So my first deployment was Afghanistan and we were very decentralized. Lots of regular infantry unit, regular leg light infantry unit from Hawaii and we did so many air assault missions that we fast-tracked the annual service cycle of the aviation regiment attached to RC South and so we ended up having to go to GACs to Ground Assault Convoys with Humvees and we just spent it was like 20 days out, 10 days back on patrols and it was, you know, remote living. And then we go back to back to Iraq and tons of infrastructure and all that kind of support that you see in those large forward operating bases no-transcript at any phase on their leadership journey to become a more purposeful and accountable leader, what I like to call a pal. Join me on our journey together towards transformational leadership.
Speaker 3:All right team. Welcome back to the Tales of Leadership podcast. I am your host, josh McMillian. I'm an active duty army officer and the founder of McMillian Leadership Coaching, and I'm on a mission to create a better leader what I like to call a purposeful, accountable leader. My vision is to impact 1 million lives in the next 10 years by doing two things sharing transformational stories and skills. On today's episode, I'm going to be bringing you one of the best leaders that I've ever had the chance to serve with, and that's Derek Kearns.
Speaker 3:Derek Kearns enlisted in the Army in 2002 following the events at 9-11. Throughout his military service, he's completed tours to both Iraq and Afghanistan, amidst personal challenges he's experienced in terms of his marriage, with a divorce and being remarried, and he is now the proud parent of two beautiful daughters and a stepson. This summer, derek is getting ready to take the next step in his military career. He's been in for 24 years now and is going to be going to the Sergeant Majors Academy at Fort Bliss, and he is dedicated to becoming a better leader every single day, and I genuinely mean this. I was a platoon leader when I first met Derek. He is, hands down, one of, if not the best non-commissioned officer I have ever served with. So make sure you listen to this episode, because the nuggets that he brings and throughout his story is extremely powerful and, as always, stay to the very end and I'll provide you the top three takeaways.
Speaker 3:You can go to McMillianLeadershipCoachingcom. You can listen to that podcast there and also have a accompanied article of the summary and key points from this episode. That way, you don't have to take any additional notes. Let's go ahead and bring Derek on. Derek, welcome to the Tales of Leadership, brother. How are you doing, man?
Speaker 3:Not bad how are you Josh? It's good. I think it's always funny when I always start these podcasts I basically say the same thing like five minutes before that we've just talked about. But I really mean this is that it's an absolute honor to get to connect with you again and really that's why I love podcasting is because I can go through some of the memories that we had together and then really figure out what kind of leader that I was when you first met me.
Speaker 1:Well, no, it's uh. Thanks for having me on. Uh, I've never done one of these before. This will be fun, but it's a yeah long form discussion and, of course, catching up with you. You were my first real PL. That was super fun. It was definitely a formative experience for both of us.
Speaker 3:A hundred percent. Some of those stories, I'm sure. But before we jump in, Derek, if you could take the time just to provide a quick overview to the listeners of who you are.
Speaker 1:Sure, yeah, okay. So my name is Derek Kearns, I'm active duty Army infantry, currently assigned to 3rd Brigade 10th Mountain Division out of Fort Johnson, louisiana, and I'm pending permanent change of station or PCS, to go to the United States Army Sergeant Major Academy, class number 75. I joined the Army, of course you know, graduated high school and I've come from a pretty large family and I'm one of the only people in my generation in my family that did not go to college. And so a couple months after getting out of high school then 9-11 happens and it seemed appropriate at the time and I don't question it or regret it now. I mean, as a young man, there's always that thing like if someone shoulder checks you or bumps into you on the street or says something inappropriate to your girlfriend or one of your friends, you're going to take issue with that and that's pretty petty usually. But these people decided to commit themselves to the extent of taking their own lives to do it, to come all the way across the world to kill US citizens, to include potentially. One of my friends growing up was on the other side of Central Park from the Trade Center when it got hit and so it seemed. It very much seemed like well, if they're going to pick a fight, then let's go fight. And so I joined the Army in January of 2002.
Speaker 1:I was initially stationed at Schofield Barracks, hawaii, with 25th Infantry Division and it was uncommon at the time and not too many folks that I've run into have had the same experience where I stayed in the same infantry company, the same UIC, for three GWAT deployments and from private second class through staff sergeant.
Speaker 1:So I was in the same company from E2 to E6 continuously and then I went from there to Joint Base Lewis-McChord and got my first taste of Stryker and that's its own big rabbit hole right there. But yeah, I've served in leadership positions from team leader started. I guess my first real, glenn said, organizational level or direct level leadership was as a team leader. When the actual team leaders were away on their mid-tour leave. I got a chance or an opportunity to kind of step up in Afghanistan and be the specialist in charge on patrols or in administrative silly things from time to time. And then when we got back from that deployment in 2005 is when I first started. Actually I had my first fire team and then I've served in leadership positions in infantry organizations from then on up to this point.
Speaker 3:So I didn't know you were in the same unit. I think you have a, is it? God? Don't don't hate me on this. Is it Cacti?
Speaker 1:Cacti, that's right. Left hand high.
Speaker 3:Okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:I didn't know. You were in that same unit, basically from private all the way to staff sergeant, I think, at least from my understanding, that's uncommon nowadays, but maybe because of the operational tempo back then it was, I guess, relatively normal. I don't know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was very much for me, it was just maybe the way it worked out. Yeah, it was very much for me, it was just maybe the way it worked out. It was a very happy accident that whenever it was time for me to reenlist, we were also luckily on deployment again and bonuses were tax free and it was like gosh why wouldn't I reenlist to stabilize in tropical paradise with the organization I love? And being in Charlie Company, ace of Spades, 2nd Battalion, 35th Infantry Regiment, that was an absolutely amazing experience and anybody who is blessed to be able to be in 3rd Brigade, 25th Infantry, that's a great organization in the regular Army.
Speaker 3:I've been in for 16 years now and I travel all the time for my current job and I have yet to figure out a way to make it to.
Speaker 1:Hawaii.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:It's worth it, it's, it's amazing. It's a very tight knit community. Um, it's, it's wild. I mean you've, you've seen this as, uh, you'll, you'll go to a place, you'll be at a place, and then you'll leave and you'll transition and go to your next assignment, and then you'll meet someone new who had also at some other time been at that same place, and having that commonality is a it's, it's wild how small the army can be.
Speaker 3:When you were in that unit and you were kind of growing up from a private to a staff sergeant, you were working through those ranks. You had three different deployments. Were any of those like more specifically challenging from like a rank perspective, getting ready for a deployment, maybe when you were more of an NCO and there was more weight on your shoulders and you had to train and get your guys ready for the mission?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was. Culturally the Army was pretty focused at that point. There was a good, strong, honest impetus that we all pretty well bought into and fed on and used, well or not, or in the healthiest of ways or not. It was hey, you've really got to learn this. Or someone's going to die Because we knew before we even got home from our first trip that we were going on another one and we knew when we were going to die. Because we knew before we even got home from our first trip that we were going on another one and we knew when we were going to go.
Speaker 1:And so that whole time and it wasn't even I hadn't even put on sergeant stripes yet and I was in a leadership role and that was very common and it continues to be where a leader will punch up and wait, so to say, they'll work above pay grade and they'll have that responsibility without maybe the benefit of the honest paycheck attached to that responsibility or authority. But it was always for me, at every level, from sergeant through first sergeant, it was. I've worked above pay grade for for a time and that was always commonly laterally and vertically. It was understood as that's kind of like the probationary period, but then, like, once you pin, then it's game on, and once you're wearing the appropriate rank that's commensurate with your responsibility level, then you are reasonably expected to understand your duties and responsibilities and execute effectively and I do.
Speaker 1:And I do feel like it was a hard transition for me to initially wear stripes, coming from the junior enlisted ranks to become a sergeant and become a functional team leader, and the methods that were employed at that time to encourage me out of my shell and get me to be more vocal and apply a more critical eye to the population that used to be literally my peer group specialists and privates amongst us.
Speaker 1:Now I'm a sergeant or now I'm a team leader, specialist, and I have to lead them and I have to hold them accountable and I have to teach them not just what I expect, but that what I expect is aligned with Army standards and what is needed to actually be functionally combat ready, and they had to. There was a game that my squad leader and platoon sergeant would play with me or at me. I'm not sure which is more appropriate, but if I hadn't corrected somebody for a valid deficiency before PT formation, every day I would get corrected, so to say, and that was how they helped me to apply a more critical eye to my soldiers in the smallest of ways to help them, or help me to understand that my job is directly related to helping them.
Speaker 3:I was always curious where one of the things that I absolutely loved about you is. You were way more rigid in terms of like PCCs and PCIs. I remember some of the missions that we do, especially at Nogum you would do a head to toe. One of the missions that kind of stood out to me is when we had to go try to use that, Carl Gustav, If you remember, we had that brand new toy and our boss. We had to go try to use that, Carl Gustav, If you remember, we had that brand new toy and our boss wanted us to go basically set up an ambush somewhere and so that.
Speaker 3:But that morning it didn't basically sleep all night. I think it was like zero three or zero two in the morning doing a two standard head to toe inspection PCCs, PCIs, letting the NCOs, our squad leaders, to kind of follow through to that, but keeping yourself to that same standard. I now I've been in the army for 16 years. I feel like an old man now but I have yet to really see another NCO that had that same level of detail and accountability and I was always curious where that came from and I knew it came from your informative years, but I think that's definitely where it sparked.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. It was well so back in the day, before Shooter's Preference, before MOLLE, and all that flexibility it affords us now, which I believe is awesome. I love nylon, but it's back in the day everything had a place, Everything, every pocket on the uniform, every pouch. In Alice yes, I joined in BDUs in Alice time before Molly, my first we got our, we got IBAs and Molly Rucks Gen 1 before we deployed and we didn't get plates until we were in Kandahar and there's like the end of a baseball game, you know, where the kids line up and walk towards each other and the outgoing unit we were ripping with they handed us their plates on the way to the plane and that's how and that's how we got body armor plates. But it was so like the um, the Alice rucksack, as you know, those three external pouches on the outside, at the base.
Speaker 1:There were only certain things allowed to go in those pouches. Very much in particular is very prescriptive good, bad or otherwise. But everybody knew this is what you're supposed to have and there was absolutely no leeway afforded to, you know, creative license. And it was. I don't know if it's autism or OCD or what, but it was. I latched onto that as a way to help reduce variables and help ensure stuff. You know, I'm not going to lie, Josh. I tell that story to subordinate leaders around me and all my battle buddies. Um, to this day, me and linewebber were uh talking about it at the ball. Uh, he's here now as well. He's a first sergeant in n22, and is he really? He is, uh, he is.
Speaker 1:That is crazy yeah, he is still hilarious as well, but uh, we talk about those pccs where it was. I never I don't believe I ever checked the same thing and I never checked everything and I never checked everybody, but it was always like I expected that by the time I got there they had done some checking ahead of me and that by the time I got there there was nothing left for me to find and there always was. And it just goes to show how much stuff we were being asked to manage at that level. And it just goes to show how much stuff we were being asked to manage at that level, I mean our understrength platoon, sometimes as low as 17 or 19 personnel, managing a company-sized battle space.
Speaker 3:that was pretty intense. So I remember sometimes we would go out on a patrol because we were scripted to. Basically we had to go on like two to three patrols a day, even didn't really matter what the task or purpose was. Go do a presence patrol and I had to make a conscious decision with you know, francis and and Dr Jones, all those guys of like hey, you're now many PLs, so your squad element is a platoon size and our platoon is now a company. And it got to a point of where we were going on some missions and I think there were only like nine people back in our cop at Nalgum. Which absolutely blows me away but also inspires me from the standpoint, is that you guys had that resilience and adaptability to be able to fall in on a company-sized battle space at arguably the heart of Afghanistan. Nalgum is where Mullah Omar formed the Taliban and I mean that was a very decisive place in Afghanistan to hold, especially during that time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was. That summer was pretty sporting and I know you remember this is that one afternoon we got the phone call from the, our friends in the agency, where they told us like hey, I was telling that story today.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, we, you've got a guy in your ANA counterpart formation in your perimeter who was planning something that you need to be aware of. I'm like, oh, my goodness. And I was like, yeah, it was, uh, it was so going from. So my first deployment was afghanistan and we were very decentralized lots of so a whole regular infantry unit, a regular leg light infantry unit from hawaii.
Speaker 1:We did so many air assault missions that we fast tracked the annual service cycle of the aviation regiment attached to RC South, and so we ended up having to go to GACs to ground assault convoys with Humvees and we just spent it was like 20 days out, 10 days back on patrols, and it was, you know, 10 days back on patrols, and it was, you know, remote living. And then we go back to back to iraq and tons of infrastructure and all that kind of support that you see in those large forward operating bases, and then, in 2012, going back to kandahar army airfield that I hadn't been to in seven years and seeing like it was such a. It was so weird that dichotomy where it's like the, the airfield is so big, there's a nathan's hot dogs, there was a tgi friday, there was all that stuff there. But then we're. We're still where we ended up out in the middle of nowhere, very, very similarly to 2004, 2005. That was the strangest thing in the world to me that that's how that ended up.
Speaker 3:I remember coming into Kandahar thinking, oh well, this is going to be fun, it's not going to be that bad. And then we got on a CH-47 and we flew off and within like 30 minutes you do the low altitude like map the earth, and he did a burst with a chain gun on there and I'm like, oh, did we just get shot? That was like the first 30 minutes in like actual country and I was like, oh, this is going to be totally different. And then we went to where I was on brigade staff or battalion staff for the very first part and that was that was the most interesting thing, at least for me is me preparing for Afghanistan.
Speaker 3:I didn't really have a chance to to prepare for any of those positions. I came straight out of ranger school, I went straight to battalion staff and we immediately deployed school. I went straight to battalion staff and we immediately deployed and I was the night battle captain because I don't think they had a really good fit for me at the time because they were already stacked with a lot of phenomenal leaders. So some of them I still actually work with. If you remember frank um, he's still in special operations forces, frank foss yeah, the gigantic redhead yeah, you remember you're what watched.
Speaker 1:Uh, rudolph the red nose reindeer yes cornelius, he is cornelius, he's a peppermint farmer he was, uh, I remember he was the hhcxo when I was the uh scalpatine sergeant and he was always so very incredibly focused and very. He had a very regimented uh physical fitness regimen and his eating habits and everything was just so intentional. Everything he did just seemed like he he was doing that on purpose, because that's the way he wanted that done, and I was like, well, good for you, sir.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's awesome I will tell you that he has not changed at all. And now he's made other ginger babies that are exactly the same as him. He's creating a race of superior genetic gender babies. We'll just say that.
Speaker 1:I don't know, you know he's got a best of luck to him in all of that. Really yeah, it's a worthy endeavor. Vikings, all of that. Really yeah, it's a worthy endeavor. Vikings, all of them.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so off topic, but for my job I get to travel a lot. We went to London a couple of weeks ago and I had a chance to bring my wife, which is crazy. Acquisitions is totally different than the infantry Because I was joking. Different than the infantry Because I was joking. The first time I went TDY I was in my uniform Because I was told by my boss when you travel you're on the Army's dime, so you wear your Army uniform, and everyone was, you know, making fun of me. It's like, dude, when you go TDY you don't wear your uniform, you're a major. How do you not know that I was like?
Speaker 3:because I've only ever went to war, the only time, I ever went to war the only time I ever went to tdy uh, yeah, no, I mean that's yeah.
Speaker 1:I mean I'm sure it's a different culture, but it sounds. It sounds like a hoot, sounds like a lot of fun to be over there it's uh, it's a blast and we went to to london.
Speaker 3:I gotta go to glasgow and edinburgh and I took like a scotland tour and I found out that my I a surname in Scotland and there is a McMillian castle. So what I'm thinking about doing when I retire one day is to go get my family crest guide on flag made and go take the castle as my birthright and just claim it.
Speaker 1:See how long it takes me to notice, like, what the heck is going on over there. Who's that guy who put the drawbridge up? Yeah, what is going on?
Speaker 3:Yeah, that'd be awesome when you were going from the light infantry over to mechanize. I'm curious, like that culture shift. What was it like coming in a striker organization?
Speaker 1:Right, yeah, coming over to striker from white. I'm not going to lie, I had a lot of concerns and apprehension when I was all I was born out of ignorance. It was transitioning into striker. I think one of the biggest cultural shifts I saw or experienced was that, like, say, cause I'm, I'm, you know, I'm just a hothead staff sergeant at the time and, me being me, I'm maybe more direct than is useful at times, or whatever that is, and I can't even count if I tried.
Speaker 1:I do remember several different instances where I was politely and kindly pulled aside by somebody and told we don't do that here. I was addressing an issue that I saw in front of me and I was just addressing it. I was smoking somebody, or I was chewing someone out, or I was dressing someone down, or I was reading someone the riot act and yeah, we don't do that apparently, and I'm, and yeah, I remember. Uh, it was during the train up, right, we're at ntc and I'm in. It was with my platoon sergeant at the time was Sergeant Anderson, right, papa A, and had Lieutenant Highland and he's, he's an awesome awesome guy.
Speaker 3:He was the mortar platoon leader right After Mackey. Yes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he's awesome, but at the time you know, probably stress or me just being me he was, he was doing it, he was acting in good faith and he was being a good young officer and all that stuff. And I just I'm just me and I told him I was like he got done trying to tell us how to do things or whatever it was. And I was like sure, I was like you can tell me the when, the where, the what, the what, the who. You can tell me all kinds of stuff, sir, but the how, that's my lane. I was like don't tell me how to run my squad. I was like you don't have to tell me to do rehearsals, you don't have to tell me to do inspections, you don't have to tell me to do those things. I'm going to do those things. It's like you tell me where to be and when and what we're going to do. If you feel like it, I'll be ready and so will all of my soldiers and um, and then he just kind of nodded, walked off, and then I went and, uh, I was eating in my striker because I didn't want to be in that stupid tent in Aruba.
Speaker 1:And I went and I was eating with my VC and he poked his head in the back of the striker and he started to say it. He started he was going to do the hey, make sure you guys do rehearsals before we move out tonight. And I just stopped. I had my MRE in my hand, like this, and I looked at him and I was like I was like sir, we just talked about this and he's like he's like, he's like sir, we'll be doing rehearsals at 1900 or at you know, just on the far end of ENT. Okay, if you want to come see rehearsals, we'll be doing those at the far end of ENT to make sure their nods and lasers and everything works. If you want to come see, he's like, okay, but I mean it was just and that was just me at that time being honestly, uh, more fiery than was probably useful, but uh, yeah, I mean I was a hot head I, I, I never.
Speaker 3:So that that's the one thing that I absolutely loved about you, especially when I was a brand new platoon leader. So the first time I met you was at Rod's Memorial. That was the first interaction of the entire platoon. I didn't really know where I was going that day. If I remember right, colonel Harkins at the time was like hey, that's going to be the platoon that you take over. So my first interaction was at the that Memorial.
Speaker 3:And I remember going into that job of having a very like selfish mentality and I tell this story all the time of like hey, I wanted to go be a range, range of middle platoon leader, so I wanted to go to war and I wanted to get into many firefights as possible. But at that moment, like that, there was like a switch inside of me of like hey, I need to be the leader that this, this platoon needs, I guess, if that makes sense. So I shifted my mindset almost 110 and you were perfect in terms of like, clearly communicating, always when I was getting outside the limits. So story when I may or may not have went to go take a shower in a well right where we got into a very large ambush a couple of days before, you tactically told me hey, sir, this is a bad idea, you will die. I didn't listen to you, but I probably should have. But I remember coming back and you were standing outside of the entryway. It's like, sir, we're getting shot at, so you're not lying. That was hilarious.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was a fun transition. I mean, honestly, you were a huge breath of fresh air because the I mean Appletune, had already been through so much and I was an import. Yeah, they were very far away, yeah, and it was very soon into the trip and we had so many soldiers it was their first trip and they had, I mean gosh, they had already taken some pretty significant hits. And it was like, I mean, immediately during rip, rip in, uh, I wasn't even in the platoon yet and they lost their platoon sergeant, who was beloved by them. He had certainly built quite a cult of personality.
Speaker 1:He's a very dynamic leader and that's fine, and but he had you know that, I mean the circumstances around that incident are not great, but but you know, three wounded in one hit. I mean they all lived, thank goodness. And so all of a sudden, like I was a SWAT leader that morning, and then the end of the night I'm a staff sergeant, platoon sergeant, and I have a captain, platoon leader, sergeant, and I have a captain, uh, platoon leader, and then you know we making our way through things, and then you know sergeant rod didn't make it, and that was june 19th, I believe. And then we go to his memorial and then, yeah, then you come on board and then we're kicking west and we knew that that that area may one was, uh, that the only people who had been west recently from Dagobah were Navy SEALs and they had not done well for themselves in that environment. I was like, oh good, here we go. I remember watching that.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:I was watching that mission and they may or may not hit an IED. I was like, oh, this is going to be interesting.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So I remember that transition in for you and I was. I was so worried for you and I was worried for everybody, you know, cause there's only ever one six. There's only ever one six on the net. And I was learning very quickly that, no matter how good I thought I was or how good I might've been, usually when someone's calling us they're not calling for anybody but you. And the hardest thing in the world was to get you to take your radio and your RTO with you. You just take off.
Speaker 3:I was a peacock man, I was just go.
Speaker 1:You, just, you just go for it somewhere. And I was like I'd find your your one, five, two or your M better, which everyone you're supposed to have that day. You just leave it in the back of the striker. And I was like and then your poor, your RTO Clifton, you know Peterson like he was just trying so hard to stay with you. Or he was just like sorry, I'm trying. And I'm like no, no, no, stop it. It's like if he leaves this footprint again without his radio, I'm going to kill you. He's like Sarn, it's not my radio, I've got my radio. I was like no, no, no, that's not the point. Yeah, all right.
Speaker 1:I remember Sarmier Biggs called all of the platoon sergeants from across the battalion battle space back to Azif and I was like Sarmier, we're in contact every day. Repeatedly I was like I don't know if I can afford to leave my platoon's position. And you know, first Sergeant, of course, was adamant, and so Sergeant Major wants a thing, it's what's going to happen. And I felt like I had tried really hard to give you know task condition standards and like set up a goblet or whatever it would be. And I remember I got back off the striker and I got back out there to maywand and it was this close to like completely going lord of the flies I remember that I was like, what is going on in here?
Speaker 1:I was like, oh my god, it's so bad mcmillian, you ruined it.
Speaker 3:yeah, it was totally, totally different personality types is that I? I didn't come from a soldiering background. You know, really my only interaction was straight academic, from a schoolhouse perspective of airborne school ranger, school eyeball like water leader, school combatives, and then boom straight to a platoon, uh whirlwind for basically two months and then coming in right in the middle of that, that mission and when, when you left, uh and it came back and I'm going to blame Jones, I think Jones was the biggest reason. I mean he talked me into it.
Speaker 1:It's convenient, but it's also completely true. Jones wouldn't even try to deny it either. Jones would completely on it. He's like yeah, it sucked out there. It's like you know you're right, it did suck out there. But putting your helmet on in the tower is not a bad idea.
Speaker 3:Yeah especially after we left. And what happened? Uh, you're, I remember doing one of those patrols and I'm pretty sure that we found like a sniper, uh, a rubber into the sniper scope for the eyepiece on one of the rooftops out there, and it could have been like when you guys were getting in some of those previous engagements, but I always had in the back of my mind that there was definitely a sniper somewhere there, and I think that was definitely validated after we ended up leaving. But thank God we had wetlick and his, um, hillbilly ingenuity being able to run everything.
Speaker 1:I remember we got to Noggin it was the very first day and that first sergeant and he was apparently he was like the only first sergeant in that organization or the paratroopers that we were relieving who didn't have a tab and he was apparently he was like the only first sergeant in that organization or the paratroopers that we were relieving who didn't have a tab and he was well, whatever, he had his way about him. And he's showing me around and all this stuff, which is great. He's trying to play a good host and he shows us that broken shower trailer. Right, it didn't work and they were like they had the water blivet and they were just taking showers, standing on a pallet and turning on the valve hose and letting like water just pour out of the blivet through the hose onto them while they still on a pallet with this broken shower connex next to them.
Speaker 1:And I looked over at Wedlake and I was like hey, see what you can do with that. And he's like, okay, and he starts tinkering around. And then we're and he's like okay, and he starts tinkering around, and then we're all talking in the cp and it was not even a couple hours later and wedlake walks in. He's like, hey, star currents. I was like, yeah, what's up, wedlake? He's like, hey, can I show you something? I'm like, was it important? I'm kind of talking. The first one's talking to us and he's like, oh, this is you're gonna like this. So I'm like, okay. So he takes us out there and he had figured out how to get it to work and we had just shown up that day and they had been there for months without showers and the first sergeant was actually very upset with us about that. He did not appreciate that we had made him look bad by getting something to work and I was like like I've never taken those kinds of things into account, I guess.
Speaker 3:I definitely I remember that company that we ripped out with not saying anything bad about any of them, but I remember one specific example of when we were cleaning out the talk and I think it might have been Turner, I don't know who it was was grabbing some of the files and we shredded all the files and one of those files was the CD of all the property documentation for that entire company, like basically complete package ready to go, and then in one moment shredded that. But I remember that Lieutenant's interaction, just how hostile it was and like the petty things he would do. If you remember, in the little whiteboard in the back with the day they left hey, have fun for the rest of your six months in Afghanistan. We're going back to the U S like okay, man, I'm sorry that we we ruined your day.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was. They were that, and I truly have nothing against any organization in the Army, but that interaction certainly left a particular impression on me of that larger organization. I mean because I've ripped repeatedly. We ripped twice with no slack while I was previously in other deployments and once with polar bears and no slack. They were consistently about it A little wild, but about it Like they were very aggressive and you know like, okay, yeah, this smells right, you know this, you know this feels like it makes sense. The interactions with the folks we had in Afghanistan did not make me want to ever be there.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, I I agree a hundred percent. Like, uh, that rip that we did really wasn't, I guess, a rip at all. Um, it was. It was interesting Cause we had to basically completely reinvent all of that to include the relationships. And there was several times you already mentioned one where, basically that we got a call from the agency for the green on blue threat.
Speaker 3:But, if you remember, I was going out to do a property book inspection and some of those cops or outposts that we had, and I had to check serial numbers for generators. The one day that I did not bring a linguist with me was the one day that they thought I was going out there to steal their generator. And I'll never forget like they had a line. Uh, they were all outside and I come, you know, walking out of the striker, like from a little clipboard, and they think I'm going to take it, and they have all their guns drawn at me.
Speaker 3:The striker, like from the little clip, poor, and they think I'm going to take it, and they have all their guns drawn at me and I can't remember who it was on the radio is like, sir, we have all our guns pointed at them. So then all of our strikers pointed at them and I'm like, oh my god, this is not good. Well, uh, but I was able to figure out a way to to get that to go away. And then, uh, bring the linguist out, like dude, all I need is the serial number. I'm not taking away your generator, I promise, but that was interesting.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was strange how something which would seem rhythmic or very normal had taken on a whole new life because of the preceding unit's focus. Having been in other areas, the work it gave us to do was pretty, uh, significant and just the fact that, like I mean wed like again, like, as an example, like local inside the perimeter, um, they were like, say, they had a freezer trailer they had, they had a way to refrigerate and preserve food, um, so they didn't have to eat those. You know, know, mres or MRAs, you know they could actually cook and they had a kitchen unit and everything, and then they just didn't. They didn't even know what they had.
Speaker 1:Like we were finding steak and we're finding all this food. And it was like they had dry goods, they had seasonings, they had all these things that they could have been utilizing to help improve their soldiers' lives or just give them a small taste of humanity, and it just wasn't being put to use and it was just it's like wow, you guys have lived like this the whole time on purpose. It's like, wow, that's wild I.
Speaker 3:I vividly remember that, like when we, when we moved to nogum I, the quality of life just dramatically improved for everyone, to include like the food that we had. We basically had like our own little mini defect. We were getting pretty big logistics pushes and if you remember I don't know if you remember this or not I call them fatty cakes. I may or may not have given our guys the fatty cakes and I gave them to our Afghan partners. I'm like, oh, hey, guys, here's all your muffins and cookies and cakes. And we would always hey, why are we only getting protein and like vegetables, like I don't know, we're just not getting fatty cakes. Man, I'm sorry.
Speaker 1:What is the? Um? I remember we made one of those rare trips. I really did not enjoy being in the vicinity of the company headquarters uh, you know variety of reasons, but, uh, one of the rare trips I did go up there to the company CP. I got a peek inside the uh, the company freezer truck and I just immediately lost my mind and just have the squad leaders just just take anything out of there you want, cause obviously they don't care what's in there, cause it was just thrown in. It was like looking inside a young child's dirty closet. Like, as soon as the, as soon as the freezer door opened, the stuff was spilling out and it was.
Speaker 1:There was no organizational system in place at all. And it's not just that it wasn't organized and that, you know, hurt, my, you know, ocd feelings about it. It was that like, like the, they had things that, even though refrigerated, would still go bad, like they had lobster in there, they had steak in there, they had all. They had crab legs, they had all of these things that a soldier would love to eat on a deployment, but instead it was just all in piles and it was like you don't even know what you have.
Speaker 1:There's no way you have an understanding of what you have on hand. Like you don't know your dos, you don't even know what you have. There's no way you have an understanding of what you have on hand. Like you don't know your DOS, you don't know, like, how much you have available, you know, for this UIC or any other. Like you don't even have a distro plan or anything. It's like okay, we're just going to take whatever we want and you're stuck with the rest because you're obviously not concerned about what you have. And yeah, it was. It was wild.
Speaker 3:Team. Let's take a quick break from this episode, and I want to share an additional leadership resource with you, and that is one-on-one leadership coaching through McMillian Leadership Coaching. So what do I do?
Speaker 3:I help leaders discover their purpose, create a long-term growth plan and take inspired action. I believe everything rises and falls on leadership and, regardless of where you are in life, one fact is true you are a leader of others, you are a leader of your family and, most importantly, you are a leader of yourself. To lead others well, that starts by leading yourself well. If you want to learn more, you can go to McMillianLeadershipCoachingcom and schedule a free call today. Back to the episode.
Speaker 3:That's one of the biggest traits that I took away from your leadership style was that attention to detail, and I still carry it to the day. Like with some of the programs, if you were to ask me how much money something is or how long the contract is that we're doing it with, who's the vendor, like just all of those things, I have it very structured in my mind because I keep detailed notes. I have systems in place. Those systems are repeatable. They're scalable to different jobs. I'm sure you, as a non-commissioned officer, you probably use some of the same trackers that you used as a first sergeant as now as a sergeant major, as you're growing, not necessarily reinventing the wheel, but that little bit of attention to detail can save you so much work. And it can also improve the organization, because just applying a little bit of thought and brainpower can dramatically improve the entire organization for everyone.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, and it's yes, very much. Organization for everyone. Absolutely, and it's uh, yes, very much, uh. So I spent a few years as a ranger instructor um, in between, scalpel tune sergeant time, right. So after being a scalpel tune sergeant, I went off to seventh ID headquarters, and this is about the end of 2014. And I was put onto a striker project or a JBLM. I'm very proud to say that that program is still in ATARs today. I created this three-week program, for it's called a Striker Leader Transition Course, and so I did that, and then I finally was selected to go be a ranger instructor at Fort Moore. Ranger instructor at Fort Moore and that was something I continuously tried to reinforce to ranger students was attention to detail, not just for the sake of it, but it's all about applying it in a contextually correct way so that it becomes functional and everyone.
Speaker 1:There's this ongoing endless debate about what is the utility or the purpose of ranger school in the modern army. Is it a leadership school? Is a small unit tactics school? Is it this, is it that? And it's uh. I boil it down to the same idea of like.
Speaker 1:If you tell a young lieutenant like hey, sir, you're to help facilitate coordinating driver's training. They're going to go nuts and go online and find all these little doodads and PowerPoints and whatnot that people have created and they're going to be like, oh, we're going to do these tasks. Or you tell them like, oh, you're going to organize your platoon is responsible for certifying through this STIX process on its way to live fire. Or you're going to, you know, let's get some situational training going, and they're just going to go nuts making up weird stuff and it's like so there, you have to tell them it's like, just apply some attention to detail. Remember, you're in a very large old organization. You know the United States Army Infantry and there are documents that you can use to help drive your certification process or your training plan, so that you don't have to make up anything. You don't have to be creative, you don't have to sell a pen to your commander or your commander's commander. You can just use metal, because there's key collective tasks, there are individual critical task lists for every MOS and pay grade, and you can use all of that, if applied appropriately, to both assume risk when needed and to identify focus points or points of friction.
Speaker 1:And it's yeah, it's been continuously and persistently helpful to be able to be precise in a way that helps as much as it possibly could, like say something as simple as knowing army regulations appropriately and, when needed, down to chapter verse, not for the sake of being pedantic or semantic, but say, as a leader when acting on behalf of soldiers. Like, say, like quoting army regulation 420-1 in regards to unaccompanied housing or barracks, as it relates to the relationship between you know the housing management office right, who uses the army barracks management program handbook. You know all that loaded language, but that's not doctrine. They're supposed to use army regulation 4-1, and you'll see it a lot in the Army. I know you saw this as a commander here at Fort Johnson was soldiers who are unintentionally double booked in a room in the barracks. But there's guidance in that regulation that says soldiers who share a room are supposed to have minimum square footage requirements for private space and communal space and noncommissioned officers in unaccompanied housing are not supposed to have a roommate, and that's written into the regulation.
Speaker 1:And somehow not at all isolated to Fort Johnson, but across the whole Army. Not at all isolated to Fort Johnson, but across the whole Army. It's to the point where I'm sure you saw it earlier this year all of the branch, senior enlisted advisors, like, say, sergeant Major of the Army and all of his counterparts across all the branches were testifying before Congress about quality of life issues on the enlisted side, and I mean high hopes they can fix it. But it's crazy how all this is at our fingertips and then what do we do with it?
Speaker 3:That's an excellent point. I think it goes back to like one of your strengths is your attention to detail and your understanding of regulations and policies, and not from like what you just said, not from a standpoint of trying to make someone look less intelligent, but understanding regulations and policies make you dangerous, because if someone were to tell you something and you already know, well, nope, that's not true. Show me the policy or the regulation that says that we need to do this this way and it doesn't, so we're not going to do it that way. And it allows you to make better informed decisions. At the end of the day, doing what a leader does, and it's just taking care of the sons and daughters who wear this uniform. I, I feel that you are we're either the best ranger instructor or the absolute worst to have because of your superpower. So I'm curious what your take is on that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I enjoyed being a ranger instructor so very thoroughly. It was so much fun unadulterated fun for me. I felt like a kid in a candy store every day, because at the time so this was about the summer of 2017 through all of 2021. And so I reported to 4th RTB as a KD, or now CD, complete Sergeant First Class, and so I was among the older of the population as an instructor. 4th Ranger Training Battalion at the time was conducting training at the squad level. They had not yet transitioned to what the current model is, which is platoon operations throughout the curriculum.
Speaker 3:Interesting. It was squad when I went through.
Speaker 1:Right. So squad ops at Darby was normal for me as well, and having 13, 14 on the low end to 18 is the ideal max for a ranger squad in derby phase and having them for a 24-hour period that was the most fun, but it was. It was an opportunity to see growth in motion because you would see these same students for three continuous weeks pretty much all the way from rap week all the way through patrol cycle, and you can see them either come together or tear themselves apart. And I got to participate in the in the front end of patrols. You give classes. So the progression is a classroom period of instruction and then a ungraded practical exercise led by a certified ranger instructor and then a student-led patrol graded by a ranger instructor, evaluating ranger students on execution of leadership tasks in a tactical environment. And so at the end of the phase the students write critiques before they go to mountains. The end of phase critiques and there are things in there where the it. It's a very fill in the blank kind of a one page sheet and then they ask there are questions like are there any ranger instructors who stood out to you, or are there any periods of instruction that need to be changed or improved and things like that. When I did come up, it would tend to be that I, I would give you know, starting first class kerns gives excellent classes, but then starting first class kerns is horrible to have when you're being graded, because he's very thorough when he grades as well.
Speaker 1:Oh, it was, but it was I don't know. The standard. Yeah and it was. The standard is very impartial and it was. I mean, I would tell them all the time At Darby phase. I would tell them I'm not certifying you as a ranger. I'm certifying to my counterparts at Mountain phase and Florida phase that if I was your platoon sergeant and you were one of my squad leaders, leading one of my squads on a combat patrol, I wouldn't want to kill you. I could deal with you and develop you if I needed to. But you are a leader who is making sound decisions under duress and it was a really awesome experience with a really great population. They're easily some of the most, some not all, of course, not all but some really excellent non-commissioned officers and commissioned officer leaders. It was a good time.
Speaker 3:I always kind of regret that now the transitioning to acquisitions, I can never go back into any of those roles, and the one thing that I missed most out of anything is just spending time with soldiers. That is the one thing that I wish I out of anything is just spending time with soldiers. That is the one thing that I wish I could find more time of, because stuff I'm doing now is extremely impactful, but being able to give back, especially time and mentorship to young soldiers the one thing that I wish I could find more time or a way to do 100%. So I would have loved to have been an RI, but unfortunately I can never go back to do that.
Speaker 1:It's certainly one of the only reasons I'm still in, if not the only, I mean. You say you're at 16 years. I'm at 22. I'm exceptionally old.
Speaker 3:You need to stay in, though I would tell you that the Army needs more leaders like you, and, if I had my way, you would be the Sergeant Major of the Army.
Speaker 1:I just kind of keep putting it where. I've never sought a job or a promotion. I just kind of keep doing whatever job I have until someone comes along and tells me I have another job and luckily the trend has been upward. So I was actually slated to leave 4th RTV at the end of 2019. And I'm sure you remember 1st Sergeant Hare, right? So he's now Sergeant Major Hare and he was the incoming Command Sergeant Major for 4th RTV at that time. And he remembered me and he asked he's like, do you want to stay and you'll be the HHC First Sergeant? I said, well, sure, that'd be great. Thank you, sergeant Major. So that finally all came to a close and I come over here to Fort Johnson and then, uh, sergeant Major Siglock Um, so he was first Sergeant Siglock with us on that trip and so he's here now as the brigade command Sergeant Major and he, uh, it was an ambush.
Speaker 3:We all gravitated to the same duty station. Yeah, it was uh, and it's, it's been great.
Speaker 1:He's gravitated to the same duty station. Yeah, it was, and it's been great. He's awesome to work for. I've learned so much from him.
Speaker 1:But I went to work in Alpha Company 2-2 just like it was a normal day. I was after PT, I'm in my office and then the battalion sergeant major just comes in beelines into my office and closes the door on me. And I was, you know, I I messed something up, someone did someone die, someone in jail, like what happened? So you don't know, you saw me, drafts were just you'd come in and everything's fine. You know, um, you close the door right away and he's like current sit down. I'm like, oh my god, like sergeant major, is everything all right? And he's like the current sit down, be quiet. I'm like okay, and he's like he's like you're not fired, but you're leaving.
Speaker 1:I was like it sounds like I just got fired, sergeant major, and he's like no, you're not fired, but you do need to go right now and you need to go to brigade headquarters and meet your new counterpart. You start tomorrow. I was like what? Like sergeant major, I'm pretty sure I just got fired and and he's like no, kearns, shut up. You didn't get fired, you got a promotion and it took me a few months to understand and we were so close. We were this close to going to the box. I'd done the whole train-up cycle and it was about two weeks out from the JRTC rotation for the brigade and I had been with this company all the way through the progression of the training cycle and all of a sudden I'm now leading the brigade headquarters company and, um, I felt terrible for my counterpart at brigade. Uh, captain marilyn ponder, she's awesome, she's up in alaska now, but, um, I was her fourth first sergeant in her one command at the brigade headquarters company, oh wow, and she had to try to keep that all together by herself.
Speaker 3:Were they not? So when I was in there that was definitely a coveted position because I was a HHC commander in 2-2. So I started off Alpha Company, wolfpack, and then took over Hawk Company. But I always the HAC Brigade was always the most challenging company command position but also one of the most rewarding from a, I guess, a career perspective is that when you got that you were the one, you were number one.
Speaker 1:Yes, that is. See that assessment is still in place. Yes, so Sarmier-Sigalock's lens on it is the last three of the last four First Sergeants who have been the HHC Brigade First Sergeant have gone immediately to the Academy. Ah, okay, and so it's like I still I'm going to be signing my evaluation from headquarters company, like this week, and it's so. The army saw me slotted in that position before the board closed out and published all mail numbers for the academy while I was there, the academy while I was there, but I still don't have in my high perms an evaluation for being that HAC Brigade First Sergeant. It's just being there, being slotted in that bracket.
Speaker 3:I got to ask you when you were the Alpha Company Commander were the doors still black and were there wolf logos painted on?
Speaker 1:them. They are. It's all still that way. It is still the wolf pack and, uh, headquarters company still hot company. We added a quote from death is coming well, so that's, that has stayed in place. That's still there. Uh, we added a quote to the wall on the back of the cough. Um, it was from the medal of honor winner staff sergeant, when, when 2-2 was under first ad or id season, big red one, you know. The quote to paraphrase was if you seek to make war on the united states of america, just know that someone else will raise your sons and daughters like, yeah, I can get behind that absolutely that's the most savage quote.
Speaker 3:That was awesome. When I found out where he came from, I was like, oh, that's, that's it. He's a ramrod. That's pretty epic yeah.
Speaker 1:So we uh we put that quote on in very large letters and spray paint on the side of the cough. And yeah, I mean the Wolf Company is still doing very well. It's a good crowd there. I contend the limiting factor for Third Brigade, 10th Mountain Division, is certainly not the people or the leaders in the organization. It is the geographic dislocation from their higher headquarters and that infrastructure and support that comes with being co-located with your two-star. But I contend it's a good crowd.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that was always a struggle being in 310 is that you had two daddies, if that made sense, so you had to answer to JRTC or the easy button when rotations came through in terms of taskers. But you also still had to answer to the JRTC or the easy button when rotations came through in terms of taskers. But you also still had to maintain the same standard of an 18th Airborne Corps rifle company and under 3rd Brigade I think one of the more challenging locations to kind of command, just because of the different burdens, because you're right at a JRTC rotation, so the ability for you to get tasks. I can't remember. I was a JRTC instructor before I took over command. I think I did 26 rotations and I hope yeah, no right, I hope I never see that place again in the nicest way possible.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so of all the ctc rotations, I've done the jrtc rotation, I did 2309 with, uh, the brigade headquarters. That's the only rotation I have at jrtc, except for we were augmentees once augment, we augmented wolf company augmented, uh, geronimo once, which was, honestly, that was a great experience. Um, it was a good chance to demystify small unit tactics and reinforce the importance of all of my favorite things noise and light discipline and you know, PCCs and PCIs and all that fun stuff.
Speaker 1:It was a great chance for our team leaders and squad leaders to get a chance in the field with their soldiers in a relatively low stress environment, Cause we were the bad guys really out, for they really didn't worry about us too much. It was just like this is a chance to flex your mental muscles at this organizational level and we can, you know, we can turn this into a sticks line. It's just force on four sticks with, you know, a thinking opponent, but it was pretty awesome. Um, all of my other ctcs have been through ntc. I am entirely too familiar with whales gap as we're in this.
Speaker 3:Yeah that place stinks. I just remember being a mop for in july or august, the last rotation when I was an XO, and just thinking this is just the worst place in the world. The Army chooses the worst place for training centers. I guess there's a reason why they do it, because it was horrible yeah it's a relatively low developmental value, or like low they perceive it.
Speaker 1:the state that leases that land to the federal government perceives it as very low yield as a tax income producing or an income producing location. They're like no one's going to develop this land so you guys can use it.
Speaker 3:So what's next? So SART Major Academy when are you coming to DC? I want to be here for a hot minute, so you need to come to DC.
Speaker 1:As much as I would love to go down all of the rabbit holes, like I would love to, like you said, like you know this, uh, learning about all the technical aspects, about, you know, emerging technologies, growth, markets of the cutting edge of you know how we're gonna fight the next fight effectively, that would that would be amazing. But I have this thing about the beltway where it's like, uh, I don't, I don't know that I'm ever going to develop a love of large, overdeveloped metropolitan cityscapes. Yeah, um, plus that, unless I can live, can you okay? So say, if I get stationed at the pentagon which I have no idea why anyone at the pentagon would have any interest in me being there, but it's could I live in west virginia and commute to the pentagon? Is that viable?
Speaker 3:so you let me research that, because I know people live in West Virginia and they do commute, so I would have to think about that. And now, from the military standpoint, probably not, but I grew up in rural West Virginia so I wholeheartedly think that that's a genius idea, wild and wonderful.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:At least an hour and a half an hour and 40 minute commute probably.
Speaker 1:That's rough. Yeah, that'd be a long day, but I, just as you know, I'm not very well-rounded. I only have so many hobbies, but I'm really into my hobbies. I am unwilling to part ways with my hobbies, so to say, in order to get stationed at a certain place or another.
Speaker 3:So I'll tell you this, dc, if you haven't lived here, it's kind of the metro really helps it out. You can live out in the country and still kind of commute in to work. I have a lot of my co coworkers who live very far out and they live in the very rural parts of of the country but you have to just be willing to to commute. That's the issue. Like we live in Fort Belvoir right now, uh, right by the general's housing, so they they've already messed up cause I wear my ranger panties outside religiously. I haven't changed my ways at all in my bright green Crocs, but yeah, it's very close. But I agree with you, man, I miss Fort Johnson. It used to be Fort Polk. I miss that small town kind of feel. It was definitely nice to raise the kids in the season of life they were in. I miss that small town feeling. You don't get that with with where we're at now yeah, it's, uh, it's got its charms.
Speaker 1:I mean there's certainly downsides, you know, but I mean it's because you always, you see it all the time. You know someone's like oh, you know, I'm headed to fort johnson soon, what you know they're. They're always asking for the bad news, right, if, like, someone reaches out or like say, in sponsorship, you know, first, I don't know, I'm headed that way soon. I have a small family this side or the other, uh, what can you tell me about? And they're always asking for the bad news. They're asking for the diagnosis of cancer in advance, and it's like. It's like you know there's, there are negatives, but I I remember being stationed at schofield and there were people that would complain about being in Hawaii and I yeah.
Speaker 1:I perceive that it's. It's a mindset issue where if you, if you look for the negative, you're going to find it, no matter where you're at. If you look for the positive, you'll find that it's, there's always going to be something positive. It's just what are you? What are you even looking for to begin with?
Speaker 3:I love that. I think you're spot on, brother is that if we're trying to buy, like a Toyota Tacoma, whenever we go out, we'll subconsciously pick up on all the Toyota Tacomas everywhere around us Like man. There's a lot of those. And the same as if you come into an organization regardless if it's in the military or professional organization the civilian side with a negative outlook, thinking that this is going to be bad and that you're already looking for the negatives. You're going to have a miserable time. And me and my wife totally did the opposite of that. I you're going to hate me I turned down going to Hawaii after my OCT time to stay and extend at Fort Johnson because the command queue was so small I could have basically went right into a command. So I turned down PCS into Hawaii, which could have been like maybe my only time in life, but I saw the positives.
Speaker 1:Right and I mean, wow, pcs from fort johnson all the way to hawaii, that's, that's a considerable endeavor. Plus, yeah, I mean it's a big shift, it's a big move for a family, for sure. And uh, that thing about the short command queue, that's totally still real, both of the. So I've had seven total commanders as a first sergeant and as a three at fourth RTB, two and two, two and two at brigade headquarters and both of my commanders at both my counterparts at two, two were straight out of the pipeline, they were straight out of triple C, they had PCS and they had been told in advance. You know, hey, there's potentially a pretty short queue, but right now it looks like you're going to spend a little bit of time and staff at the battalion or brigade level, you know, just developing or doing what's needed, and all of a sudden they're, instead of spending that time, you know, at that staff position, all of a sudden they get that midnight phone call, hey, tomorrow morning for an interview, um, with your new raider, and it was. That was, oh, that was interesting.
Speaker 1:And then it was for both of the commanders. So that was both commanders at a, at 2-2 and then at brigade headquarters. Normally it's. I mean it'd be ideal and I don't know if it's really feasible at 310 in particular but having the brigade headquarters company be a second command position, because a lot of times those battalion commanders really need that seasoned, excellent captain to be the HHC at their battalion to help keep the house in order. Right, but both of the commanders I had at brigade headquarters, that was their only, that was their first command and so, yeah, that was its own special fun challenge was, uh, adapting to each new counterpart and then learning them and allowing them to learn me and so on, and just trying to become as functional a team as possible. Try to minimize negative impacts for the soldiers throughout that process.
Speaker 3:That's one of the best things I think about the military, as they teach us, is the adaptability. 16 years now and for me, being a platoon leader all the way till now, I think I've had a total of 10 different jobs. So in a span of 16 years, 10 different jobs. Each one was a different scope and duties and responsibilities, some completely, totally different. I was in PO, aviation, working army systems architectures and then small drones two totally different things. And now I'm doing technical surveillance and I'm getting ready to take over SOCOM robotics. So it's a huge learning curve.
Speaker 3:But that's the one thing the military does so well is that they keep you in your discomfort zone and when you do get ready to transition, a lot of the hardships that, like veterans that I've seen in the civilian world, just absolutely crush it, because things that are common to us, that we can kind of work through problem sets, are not common in the civilian world. People will stay in a job for as long as possible because they don't want to stretch. But I always think it from the standpoint is that if you feel uncomfortable, I think that's good, because that means you're growing, that means you don't fully understand everything and that means that you care because you are, you feel uncomfortable enough to where you. You're having like an emotional kind of response to it. I always get anxiety whenever I take over a new job, just like when I got ready to be your PL. I always feel that healthy level of anxiety, but that tells me that I still care and, at the end of the day, that's why I keep doing what I do.
Speaker 2:It's time for our final show segment that I like to call the killer bees. These are the same four questions that I ask every guest on the Tales of Leadership podcast Be brief, be brilliant, be present and be gone.
Speaker 3:Question one what do you believe separates a good leader from a great leader?
Speaker 1:A good leader from a great leader would be, in my mind, investment, because to me the loaded language of leader, contextually with the army. A leader is specifically associated with the development of their personnel, because you don't lead machines. You use them right, you employ them, but you lead people, people. You lead them by. You can't lead everyone the same and a good leader will understand how leadership works, so they'll understand what they're expected to do in their leadership role. But a great leader is going to understand how to get the absolute best in that moment from each of their personnel, because they know what makes each of their personnel tick and that each of their personnel are different, and that's okay. But knowing not just that each of them are different, but they know, but knowing not just that each of them are different, but they know them well enough personally and professionally to know how to get that extra bit out of them and how to make sure that that juice is worth a squeeze.
Speaker 3:That is the best quote I think I've ever heard. I filmed 21 or 81 episodes so far. I think I've ever heard I filmed 21 or 81 episodes so far.
Speaker 3:You use machines, you lead people. It is so simple and, I think, extremely effective because one of the biggest. I'm breaking my rule of being brief. I blame you, but in the military I've seen leaders who adopt a transitional mindset because they only know they're going to be in a role for a year. So they try to use people as machines, I guess as a basic way to use them to progress their own career for the next phase. And I've always been of the mindset is that I want to leave the organization better off than I took it and I've had that same mentality going into every single job and I attribute a lot of that mindset to you grooming me as a very young Lieutenant and that served me well and I think that's always had me separate from my peers of like I'm serving, I'm not being selfish and trying to take away to move Okay. Second question what is one resource that you could recommend to our listeners?
Speaker 1:I would recommend and always be willing to let people know that you don't know everything. Because if the expectation is that you're the one who never asks a question, and that can be lateral, that can be vertical, but it's be willing to learn as a leader, and that resource is the people around you, whether that's vertically or laterally. And I'm not saying walk into an office or a room and ask someone what time it is rather than look at your watch. I'm saying lean on other people's strengths to develop yours from where they currently are to where they need to be, or understand that you don't know it all and that, no matter how much you do know, you could afford to learn some more, regardless of the subject.
Speaker 1:Because the Army, unlike the Navy or the Air Force, like I say, the people in the Navy no offense to anybody, but people in the Navy are there to help the boats do their thing. The people in the Air Force are there to make sure that bombs don't fall off the planes in flight too early or too late. The Army is made up of its people and we are unique in that regard. So the resources, the people around you because it's not a com or amil or a website. I mean, those are out there, but um, I mean army, army pubs, I'd say, is the cheap answer? Uh, read, uh, take the time to read. I mean, how much time do we spend on our phones? You can read, you can download things and then share it and then ask questions If you're not sure, when in doubt, over communicate.
Speaker 3:Yeah, a hundred percent. If you're not sure, when in doubt, over-communicate, yeah, 100%. Question three is if you could go ask back in time and give your younger self a piece of advice what would it be?
Speaker 1:I would say to myself, to my younger self gosh, if I could go back and tell them one thing, it would be probably to not be scared of college, because not just, you know, for the times we live in, because apparently that's something that is going to be addressed in one way or another in the next, you know, spending resolution or whatever they do but it's also that I have taken some college classes and I was immensely disappointed in the experience that it was so underwhelming and so easy and so trivial and I was like, wow, people pay so much money for this.
Speaker 1:This is ridiculous, and I wish I would have just gotten it done sooner. And at this point in my life. I'm 42 years old, I've been in the Army for more than half of my natural life and I'm having to face down the dragon of not having an undergraduate degree and I need to address that. And so I'm going to have to commit myself to, you know, completing the curriculum of the NCOES, the Sergeant Major's Academy, and also get my undergrad degree at the same time, because I didn't choose to do it sooner. And so I would say, if there's one thing I could say is I'd say derrick, go to college and just get it done.
Speaker 3:I love it. Last question if anyone wants to reach out to you, um, because of this podcast, something that they heard what would be the best way to do that, and is there any way that someone could add value to any of your missions that you're currently on right now?
Speaker 1:People can reach out to me. I'm on Facebook. I don't use monikers or strange names or whatever that would be titled. It's Derek Kearns. Luckily, if you look me up on global, there's only one of me. There's no numerals or anything with my name. So my parents were super awesome and spelled my name strangely, but just as it appears is how it's spelled. So derrickakearnsmil, that's me, and, um, if anybody, uh, is going to be in the bliss area for the next 14, 16. That's where I'm going to be soon, you know. By all means, please reach out, or if anyone has any anything they want to hit me up about, they can feel free to do so at their convenience.
Speaker 3:Derek brother, it's been an absolute honor and privilege and I can't wait for you to get stationed to DC next.
Speaker 1:If I get to see a person sooner than later, I'd love it. If you guys are ever um anywhere near I got I'm more than willing to take a road trip. Come see. I. Thank you for inviting me on. This is unexpectedly fun, not just to get to talk to you but to do a podcast. But of course, it was a great to, of course, great to see you. Um, thank you, yeah, appreciate it, yeah, brother.
Speaker 3:Yeah, appreciate it, yeah brother, have a good night. All right, team. That was our episode with Derek, and now I think you're going to get a small taste of some of the mentorship I had when I was a brand new platoon leader Derek is a phenomenal, phenomenal leader. Leader Derek is a phenomenal, phenomenal leader. The only reason that I am who I am today is a lot of the lessons that I had the honor and privilege to learn from Derek, and we didn't even get into half of the questions and a lot of the stories I wanted to get into, and that's because I tried to stick to an hour, so this is more consumable. But I could totally do another episode with Derek and I might do that in the future, because he's a leader that you guys need to understand from a standpoint if you want to truly become a better leader.
Speaker 3:So what are the top three takeaways? The first one that I have I wrote down, is punch above your weight, and in the army that is a very normal thing to do, especially in the non-commissioned corps, is that you are put into a position, without actually getting that rank or title, to learn that position and then when you finally take it on and you get that rank, it's game one. Like Derek said, and I think that's one of the most important things, when you are starting a leadership role, always shoot for the next level up. Punch above your weight. Don't just focus on the bare minimum to be successful in the job that you're currently in, right now, because life and leadership is a growth journey. Focus on the next level up. Always shoot to excel above the standard, not for selfish reasons and to shine a spotlight on how great you are, just because that is what purposeful, accountable leaders do. They are above the standard and they try to push themselves to be above that standard, because when you raised yourself to a certain level, everyone around you will rise with you.
Speaker 3:The second key takeaway that I have is grade to the standard. So a lot of the line with what we just talked about, but grading to the standard means that there is only one standard within the organization and it's also important to understand that that standard that has been set is the bare minimum and the norm. This is a norm of how you should interact and the success that you should have from a day-to-day basis to just get by, just to be average. You need to go above that, like I just talked about before, but make sure that you're always holding people to the standard. One thing that I see in leadership too often is people avoiding hard conversations, and you cannot afford to do that in leadership, because when you avoid hard conversations, you just set a new standard because I guarantee you there's somebody watching. You always have to choose the hard right over the easy wrong.
Speaker 3:And the final key takeaway that I got is a quote, and I think it's beautiful because it's simple and it's effective. You use machines, you lead people. The Army does an amazing job on leading people because people are the system. The soldier is a system of systems. At the core of everything that we wear our body, armor, our nods, the tanks we drive, the guns that we use everything originates from the user. The user is the system. But, more importantly, the culture within the army is focused on people first and mission always People. People is what we do, what we do. It's why, when we go to war, one casualty is too many. We always try to bring everyone back.
Speaker 3:And if you can switch your brain to understand that we use machines this microphone that I'm recording this one, the headphones that I have on right now, the camera that is staring back at me. These are all machines to use with a purpose, but we don't have that same rigid process when we lead people, because people are more malleable. We have good days, we have bad days. We lead people. Lead them means being a shepherd, guiding them, mentoring them along the journey, and Derek dropped amazing nugget and I love that quote. You use machines, you lead people.
Speaker 3:All right, team, do me a favor. You can go to mcmillianleadershipcoachingcom. You can click on the leadership tab. You can look at all the additional resources that I have for you guys, which is a hundred percent free, to include a blog article that encompasses all the key talking points that I just completed with Derek. So you don't have to take any notes and I do it a hundred percent free. Make sure you share this podcast with someone who is just starting out on their leadership journey and make sure that you rate or subscribe to my podcast on whatever platform you listen. And, as always, team, I'm your host, josh McMillian, saying every day is a gift, don't waste yours. I'll see you next time.
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