#118: Joe Byerly - From Green Notebooks to Lasting Leadership Lessons

Joe Byerly is a combat arms officer with over 20 years of experience in both combat and training environments, serving at levels ranging from the tactical to the strategic. Passionate about leader development, he created this platform to help leaders share lessons learned from their own experiences, captured in their "green notebooks." Throughout his career, he has been fortunate to have mentors who encouraged him to read, write, and publish. Joe has contributed articles to notable publications such as ARMY Magazine, Military Review, Strategy Bridge, Small Wars Journal, Task and Purpose, and Foreign Policy. Featured on Forbes and a frequent guest on leadership podcasts, Joe has also spoken at prominent events, including the Annual AUSA Conference, the Future of War Conference, and the Defense Entrepreneurs Forum Annual Conference.

Connect with Joe Byerly:
-Website: https://fromthegreennotebook.com/   
-LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/joe-byerly-bb67a377 

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Transcript

Welcome And Purpose Of The Show

SPEAKER_01 0:00

It's so important. And I remember I had a uh I worked like 12 minutes from door to door when I was a major. And it never seemed like I got that time. Like it was it was awesome because I lived so close to work, but I never felt like I got to take off the uniform of the Iron Major when I got home. And I was still I was still wound up about the day. And so when I was in command, it was like a 35-minute commute home from from where I worked. And I actually enjoyed that. You know, it was listen to music, listen to podcasts. It was a great amount of time to decompress before I got home.

SPEAKER_02 0:42

You're listening to the Tells a Leadership Podcast. This podcast is for leaders at any phase on their leadership journey to become a more purposeful and accountable leader. What I like to call how. Join me on our journey together towards transformational leadership.

Introducing Guest Joe Byerley

SPEAKER_03 1:01

All right, team, welcome back to the Tells the Leadership Podcast. I am your host, Josh McMillian, and I'm on a journey to become the best leader that I possibly can. And I plan to do that by bringing on purposeful, accountable leaders, what I like to call PALs, those who lead with intention, integrity, and make an impact. And as I grow through my self-study, my leadership habits, and my journaling experiences, I will share that through the lens of my leadership journey with you through Tales of Leadership. And here's my why. Every single episode, you're always going to hear it because it's important. I've seen the cost of poor leadership, how it can destroy morale, break trust, and in worst case, lead to a loss of life. Including through suicide. That's why I'm committing my life to helping others lead with a purpose. Through Tales of Leadership, I share real stories and actual insights on how to overcome adversity and become the kind of leader people remember for the right reasons. And before we start, again, here are some free tools. You can go to Linktree slash Tells of Leadership. Everything is there. The podcast, the blogs that I write, all my social media, everything is there. You can also go to McMillion Leadership Coaching.com slash Tells of Leadership. Find this podcast episode with an accompanied article that distills down all the key facts in a very easy to read single uh white paper. So those are the two free resources that I would push you to. Uh and as always, stay to the very end. We'll do a quick AAR and I'll provide you the top three takeaways from today's episode. And on today's show, I have the absolute honor to uh interview uh Joe Byerley. He is a seasoned combat arms officer with over 20 years of experience leading in both a combat and training environments. His service spans the tactical and strategic levels where he's consistently demonstrated a deep commitment to leader development. Joe is the founder of From the Green Notebook. And if you're in the military, I guarantee you you have uh multiple Green Notebooks just laying around, a platform created to help leaders share hard-earned lessons with one another. Insights often scribed in those pages of their own green notebooks. Throughout his career, he's been mentored by leaders who push him to read, to write, and then publish. But that push all paid off. Joe has contributed through leadership to publications like Army Magazine, Military Review, Strategy Bridge. His work has also been featured in Forbes and has shared his insights on multiple leadership podcasts and at major conferences, including AUSA, the future of war conference, and the defense entrepreneur form. Joe's passion is simple yet profound. Help leaders become the best version of themselves. Let's bring on Joe. Joe, welcome to the Tells the Leadership Podcast, brother. How are you doing today?

SPEAKER_01 4:08

I'm doing great, Josh. I'm all fired up now. That uh intro music, man.

SPEAKER_03 4:12

Yeah, it's all about like getting in like the right headspace and timing for me. So like I played that to like be fully present and like in the moment. So now I'm locked in to podcast host and trying to like get the best value out of you so I could grow as a leader too. So I'm glad you like that.

SPEAKER_01 4:28

I appreciate it. Yeah, I feel like there should be like some b-roll footage of like one of us putting a kettlebell down and then wiping sweat off our brows. Uh that was awesome.

Defining Leadership As Roles And Costumes

SPEAKER_03 4:37

Yeah, man. Uh, so I'm really excited for this, and then publicly just like thank you. So I was able to mutually get connected with you through one of our friends that we know. Um, and then I've been following your content. It's funny, like, we've been like almost on the same journey. I think uh you've been in that space now for a little bit longer, but I think we have the same purpose and passion is that like leadership development is fundamentally critical to the legacy of not just like the future of our military, but like our nation. And I've taken this of a standpoint of like podcasting allows me to have like one-on-one conversations with people like you that are figures in that space and that I could pick their brains from and also just share that with. So thanks for being intentional with me because I know you're a busy man, you just flew from DC.

SPEAKER_01 5:24

Dude, I was a drive. I was a drive. I was uh you drove to DC. I drove, I did a 24-hour turn and burn um to get in two recordings, and then I had to get back here to Southern Pines for dinner. Um, so yeah, don't don't recommend it at all. But it was it was uh it was awesome, man. And you know, to to your point, like uh I that's one of the biggest things about podcasting that I love so much are like these conversations that like you and I are having. Um, I've learned so much from the show being able to talk to guests, and I think it's the conversations that a lot of those lessons just really stick with me. I'm sure it's the same for you.

SPEAKER_03 6:06

Yeah, no, a hundred percent. Now I fully regret the last two years of not reaching out to you before because I would go to Southern Pines and Fort Bragg every single week, and I would make that drive from Virginia. So knowing that you were there, we would have gone to like Beehawks and got like a bourbon or something like that.

SPEAKER_01 6:24

That would have been that would have been great. Yeah, I mean, I just moved back in August. Um, I was you know, we spent two years in Germany, and uh I'm still still uh still enjoying it though.

SPEAKER_03 6:36

Yeah, that's a beautiful area, it's like a hidden nugget for sure. Um so kind of starting off, I always love the the first question with every one of our guests, and this really sets the barometer for the podcast episodes like how do you define leadership? And I'm really curious from that aspect from you because you've interviewed like some of the most strategic level leaders. You just talked to Dan Um Driscoll, the Sec Army, Stan McChrystal yesterday, like all influential leaders like within the nation. But how do you define leadership in your terms?

SPEAKER_01 7:09

It's really interesting that you asked that. Like, I I know there's like a bunch of different leadership definitions. Um, and I'm actually writing about it this week, like, so this is very fresh on my mind. I think leadership is a a role we choose to play, and I think that kind of like uh a movie part, you know, like that, you know, an actor, like there's a set of responsibilities, behaviors, and costumes that come with that. And I think it's um incumbent on us as individuals to study those roles that we're about to step into for leadership. And you know, I think, you know, especially when we're talking about the military and more senior levels of leadership, I think it takes a really long time to study those parts. And we do it through reading, we do it through conversations like you and I are having, and we do it by observing the folks that come before us. And so I I think it's uh so I guess I'm I'm not answering your question, um, like you know, as the standard thing, but I I think that that's a big thing is that that's like kind of like the three parts of leadership the costume, the behaviors, and the responsibilities, and we've got to figure out what those are.

SPEAKER_03 8:25

I I love that, and one of the the best definitions that I ever had was from General Petraeus, and I still kind of go back to his is like tell me what you need from the organization or the team, and then I'll tell you what my leadership philosophy or leadership style would be. So it's just all the tools in a rucksack that we collect through shared experiences with whatever we went through through our lives, and then applying the right tools at the right time. And I love how you articulated like different costumes that we wear. I've never thought of it through that. I just keep it like I know you're an armor guy, I'm an infantry guy, so I like to keep it simple, stupid. I'm like one degree away from uh the Marine Corps and eating crayons. I like to joke.

SPEAKER_01 9:03

Yeah, I I like I was actually talking to Austin Cleon. Um, I don't know if you've read his books, To Steal Like an Artist. Um, and we were having this conversation about um, you know, like he was talking, I think he was talking about um uh we were talking about maybe it was Robert Carrow, who still puts on a suit every day, even though he's walking into a research library to research, you know, the books he's been writing on Lyndon Johnson. And um he's talked to he was talking like he knows people who will like put on like a chefs outfit if they're cooking or or grilling dinner that night. And when I was in command, and this was something I had picked up, I started picking up with my time in JSOC, was that when I went to work, I was wearing civilian clothes. And then when I came home from work, I was wearing civilian clothes, and it was kind of a way for me to like shed that identity as the commander when I was home with my wife and kids, um, is to like it was almost like a physical uh act that I could do to remind myself that I'm going home to be a husband and a father and not Lieutenant Colonel Byerley. And I think that like when I would put that uniform on, and people would joke all the time that like it took me a really long time to get the uniform on. I would sit in PTs all day if I could. Um when I put the uniform on, it was time to get to work. Just like uh, you know, if the CEO, she walks into the organization with her suit on, everybody knows she's down for business. If a chef walks in, you know it's time for omelets. So I think like the uniform is is not only a signal to others that it's time to get to work, it's a signal to ourselves that it's time to work or it's time to you know switch to that different role. And so like these days, like what I'm wearing right now is is my uniform. I get up, I put stuff on, and uh, and then I I sit down to read or write.

SPEAKER_03 11:10

That's uh that's such a great way of kind of framing that because when I was a company commander, it'd be the same way. I would show up in like my civilians, I'd unlock the skiff every day uh for the team, and then I'd be in my PTs, I'd do PT with my guys, I go do PT again, maybe go drink a coffee, delay putting on my multi-cams because I knew once that happened it was showtime. But going home, I would always transition into my my civilian clothes. I never thought about that, like from that lens of like shedding that identity or a part of myself so I could show up as a more authentic husband and father because family is huge to me. So it's interesting how you frame that. I look forward to reading that article.

Rituals, Uniforms, And Decompression

SPEAKER_01 11:52

Yeah, and and then like I go back to uh I thought I'd like I've been thinking about this the last couple of years. Like I go back to Scott O'Neill. You were talking about just this opportunity to inter interview folks, and I remember I I think, and I'm gonna mess this story up, but like, you know, Scott O'Neill was uh was a president of Madison Square Gardens, and like the Knicks had lost, and he was angry. Uh he was at home and he's just kind of like you know, acting like a a brat, uh because they lost the game. And his wife reminded him that, like, hey, like you're here at home, like you're dad, you're a husband, like we need you. Um, and so it was like a you know, it snapped him out of that. And so, like on the way home, he would talk about you know making that transition from you know the president of Madison Square Garden or the CEO of the 76ers to you know just being Scott or Dad. So that that's I I think that was a couple of years ago where I did that interview, and that's just kind of stuck with me since then.

SPEAKER_03 13:00

Yeah, I think um reflecting on that with my next job of where I'll be transitioning up to the Pentagon, like leaving SOCOM, wearing civilians every day, and then now working up in the Pentagon, like that bus ride. I I was dreading that, like the transport there, but like now I'm actually like looking forward to it because I think that's going to be my decompressive uh window of like reading a book or listening to a podcast, just to decompress the day to show up either for work or for the family, vice versa.

SPEAKER_01 13:27

Yeah, it it's so important, and I remember I had a uh I worked like 12 minutes from door to door when I was a major, and it never seemed like I got that time. Like it was it was awesome because I lived so close to work, but I never felt like I got to take off the uniform of the Iron Major when I got home, and I was still I was still wound up about the day. And so when I was in command, it was like a 35-minute commute home from from where I worked, and I actually enjoyed that. You know, it was listen to music, listen to podcasts. It was a great amount of time to decompress before I got home.

SPEAKER_03 14:10

Yeah, dude, a hundred percent. Uh I think you and I share that. So I gotta ask, like, where where do you think your leadership journey started? So you you went to school at the University of North Georgia.

SPEAKER_01 14:22

Right.

SPEAKER_03 14:22

Uh do you know Ramsey Oliver by chance? Uh Colonel type Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:27

I remember, yeah, I remember Ramsey was an upperclassman.

SPEAKER_03 14:30

He um I just left. Uh he was my PEO for Soft Warrior within the SOCOM acquisition model. He is hands down, and I'm saying this because I w used to work for him, one of the best leaders I've ever served in terms of just being like the right level of like in the Wii's and the details, but like giving you mission command to like operate and like go do what you needed to do. But I'm wondering like, is there something in the water there? Because that's a such a small school, and I've I've heard so many great officers that come from that school.

SPEAKER_01 15:00

Yeah, I think so. And I and I think there's a couple of reasons for it. One is, you know, like as I look back on my life, like I didn't commission till I was what 22. But like I've been waking up at 6 30 putting on a uniform since I was 18 years old, um, because because you do PT five days a week there. And what was what was interesting about that place is that because it was a mix of both military and civilian, at five o'clock after um, you know, the flag flag goes down at the flagpole and the cannon fires, it's time to put regular clothes on and go do other things, you know, go to go to parties, go be social, um, but like take your uniform off. And so not only were we in charge of people and we had responsibilities, like I remember as a sophomore, if one of my freshmen were were like failing a class, like it was on me to make sure that they got they got counseling. Not counseling, but uh uh what's uh what's it called, man? When in college, when you uh tutoring, oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_03 16:08

Yeah, yeah, it's been a hot development.

SPEAKER_01 16:10

Yeah, so yeah, so like I had him find a math tutor for him. And I remember when I was struggling in as a freshman in math, uh, my squad leader, cadet squad leader, found a tutor for me. So I think there's that. I think it's the fact that um, you know, from a very early age there, like you're taught leadership, and then also because of the civilian component of it, you have to take your uniform off. You don't just swim in it 24-7 like they do at some of the service academies. So I think that's a a huge, a huge reason for it. And like you said, there's a lot of great leaders uh that come out of there. The current commander of the 75th uh is a North Georgia grad, you know, our our mutual friend Jason Lewis is a North Georgia grad. And like we even we were even laughing, and you got the MacArthur Award behind you. I think there was a year where there was like three, there was like Alan Kehoe got it, Dan Kenny got it, and then I got it, uh, and Tim Palmer got it. Like it was like four years in a row. It was like a North George.

SPEAKER_03 17:10

You won the MacArthur Award too?

SPEAKER_01 17:11

I do, yeah. It's it's uh that's awesome over there, yeah, man. So uh yeah, it's definitely something something in the water at that school.

SPEAKER_03 17:19

Yeah, that that's um I was always curious, like that's proximity to ranger school.

SPEAKER_01 17:24

So mountain phase, Deloniga, Georgia, and it's that was honestly like my favorite phase kind of going through, but I was just curious like that university somehow, because it's proximity to ranger school in Deloniga, if like there was a reason that there was just a good culture within the yeah, it's a it's a force field that yeah, it's a force field that goes around uh Camp Merrill out to the university there, and it just we get the ranger vibes.

North Georgia Roots And Early Officership

SPEAKER_03 17:50

Yeah, so kind of transitioning as like a young officer, you know, going in, getting in the armor branch. What was that like? Because I always love talking and hearing people's perspectives of hey, you you were in a school setting learning how to lead soldiers, but then you hey young Joe, you now have a platoon and you're in charge of them. How how was that transition like?

SPEAKER_01 18:10

Yeah, I I was um I I've joked around about this quite a bit. Like I was a late bloomer when it came to this reading, writing, and taking the profession seriously. Um I and you know, I got pieces of it, and I was definitely like I understood leadership, but I don't think I quite understood officership um as well as I could have. And and you know, the role again, talk about roles, um, you know, the responsibilities and behaviors that come along with that. Like I was very my last two years at North Georgia, I was very um focused on throwing the best parties. And so I still had that college mindset when I got in the army. And so it actually took leaders, you know, seeing what Wright looked like on multiple times and really strong NCOs to get me refocused, reoriented on the profession. And it wasn't until I was a captain that I really just discovered this love of reading, love of writing, and really, I would say, like doubled down on my roles and responsibilities as a professional United States Army officer.

SPEAKER_03 19:21

Yeah, that that'd be a great like transition question too. Is do you remember like the first time that you you wrote or read something that was like meaningful and impactful to you? Because like this is what you do now in a civilian world. Um, but do you remember the first time that you actually journaled and where like it just clicked of like, hey, this is uh this is a great habit that I need to start doing?

SPEAKER_01 19:43

Yeah, I don't know if I told this story before, um, now that you've asked it. So I'll talk about I'll talk about writing specifically. Um, I remember my S3 when I was a lieutenant was like, hey, reach out to Infantry magazine and look for this obscure article. Uh and like he wasn't describing it that well. And so I ended up reaching out and she saw that I had armor in my uh signature block. And because the infantry and armor school were about to combine, they uh under the at the maneuver center um that was about to happen. She was like, hey, we're looking for armor officers to write articles for infantry magazine while you write something. And uh we had just come back from Arslic and we wrote about the benefits of the training we received at the reconnaissance surveillance leaders course. And uh it was really cool, man, uh, as a lieutenant for the first time seeing uh I co-authored it with a couple folks, but to see like your name on a you know, to feel it like in a magazine. Um, and so so that was like the first time. And then reading, I I think uh for me, like I again great examples. Like I had uh a commander when I was a second lieutenant that was just like, this is what we do. Um, and it took a while for that to click in, but but when it did, I remember reading a book called The Last Place on Earth about two polar explorers who raced to the South Pole. One guy uh like just used his own experience, and this particular guy, the only reason he was even doing that was to hopefully get promoted to Admiral in the British Royal Navy. The other guy was passionate about polar exploration and spent his entire life studying it. Uh, one team made it back, everybody came home alive, the other team, everybody died. Um wow. I'm pretty sure with that setup, you can figure out which one was which. Um but then that that kind of like showed me that okay, like as a professional, my job is to do everything I can to prepare for leading people. So that was about captain when that happened. And then journaling. Um, I came back from Afghanistan in 2020. Uh, was just struggling a lot personally, and I was like, something's gotta give. And uh, I tried the Daily Stoic journal book and I started following their prompts initially. And then I was like, you know what? Like, I don't really want to talk about this. I want to talk about what's going on in my life right now. And then I, under their prompts, I started writing a recount of my day. And then eventually uh I would I finished that book and I was like, you know what? I gotta keep journaling. So I started my own notebook, and that was like five years ago. And Josh, the one thing that journaling has taught me is the person that we spend the our most time with, ourselves, we are least acquainted with. And so I've learned so much through journaling. Like I couldn't imagine um being where I'm at in life and not taking the time to reflect.

SPEAKER_03 22:55

Yeah, it's it's funny, man, that um it was almost the same time. Uh I was driving across country after my getting my master's at the naval postgraduate school, it was like the end of 2020. And I I just wasn't in a good middle space either, right? Like I made that transition in acquisitions, and I'm like questioning myself, hey, did I make the right decision? Um, because I was doing well in the infantry, and I love being around soldiers. Um, and then that was like one of my big fears. And I read the books, uh, it was called The Miracle Morning. I was like, maybe I need to try a habit, right? And then one of those part of the savers was essentially like journey, journaling. They call it scribing, but you couldn't fit a J and the acronym Savers. Okay, there you go. And I started started journaling, and it was funny. Um, the first the first like 30 days was a challenge for me, but once I started asking like the right questions, and then I started journaling on those, like I sometimes I get like emotional with the responses that I had like inside of me, and that's the quickest way to learn yourself. It really is. And I'm all on uh I'm all about journaling now. So I love how you're like bringing that to light from something that we all know, which is the green notebook that every leader carries around, at least in the army. I think I have like six or seven of them just out in my library right now.

Reading, Writing, And First Publications

SPEAKER_01 24:10

Yeah, I mean, if you think about it, like that green notebook that you're talking about is the Swiss Army knife for our brains. Like we use it for uh, you know, AARs, we use it for our to-do list for the day, we use it to take meeting notes, we use it to you know write down what the leader's saying during an operations order. We use it for so much. Um, and that we can do that same thing in our personal lives. And so for me, that's why uh back as soon as I retired, I created the Leader's 90 Day Notebook, which is uh a formatted journal. And in that one, like I found that if a lot of people get just overwhelmed by a blank page, like, where do I even start? What do I say? Do I say dear diary? Do I not say, you know, I like I don't know what to say? And so I just was like, hey, like here's something uh I did today, here's uh, you know, some a decision I made, here's something I'm struggling with, here's something I learned, here's something, here are the things that I accomplished. And it's really cool when you follow a format like that. You can go back, you know, weeks, months later and be like, oh man, like I don't feel like I'm doing a lot. And then you see what you've accomplished, and you're like, I actually am, or I'm not sure if I'm a good decision maker. And then you go back and look and you're like, okay, that decision did turn out well. Maybe I'm not. And so, and and then, like, you know, what am I thankful for? And and that question right there, I have learned that like sitting in the quiet of the morning or quiet of the night, and just looking back over your day and looking for something that you're thankful for as you start going through life looking for things to be grateful for. So it is it is one of those things that I don't know that I I would have done if I was younger, but I wish I would have.

SPEAKER_03 25:56

I I I started picking up the habit when I was blessed and cursed at the same time to be a OCT at JRTC. So I I think I I think I I think I pissed off my branch manager when I was at MCC because I was all in. I was like, hey, I want to go to 101st. I just got back from Afghanistan, so I was like a super gun ho major. He's like, hey, you're going to JRTC. I was like, all right, well, okay, we'll we'll do that. Um and I loved it so much, I ended up ended up staying there for four years and then doing two commands in uh third brigade, 10th mountain. But the the culture within JRTC when I was going there and walking these platoon leaders as uh a junior captain and eventually getting the opportunity to walk like company commanders and just seeing the lessons, the good, the bad, the ugly of these brigade combat teams going through a 30-day decisive rotation and pulling those lessons learned, I was like, man, this is like a cheat sheet. I need to try to distill down all these key nuggets because I'm getting ready to go be a company commander next. And I attribute that now, looking back at it, was really like my first introduction to journaling, but through the lens of just professional development. What did that dude do that was good, bad, that I want to emulate or absolutely not do as a leader? But that I think looking back at it as we're talking now, I think that was like my first introduction to journaling, and that was kind of the framework that I used.

SPEAKER_01 27:18

That's awesome, man. I'm I'm glad you did. I think you know, if we're looking career-wise, you definitely started a lot sooner than I did. So kudos to you on that.

SPEAKER_03 27:28

Yeah. So kind of working through um some of the things that you're actively doing. Um, one of the articles that I'm I'm really interested in you kind of talking about, because I know there's like a lot of majors uh that have asked this question, and you have an article that is, is my career worth it? Which is a great article, by the way. So walk me through um that of because everyone has a season in life, especially in the military of like you're on a high, you absolutely love it, and then you absolutely hate it. Um walk me through that article of your kind of experience through the military, through those different seasons as a company grade officer, as a major, and then ultimately as a lieutenant colonel.

Discovering Journaling And Self-Awareness

SPEAKER_01 28:06

Yeah, I think um I think the key word there is seasons, and I and you know, I I as I said in the article, like I came in at the right time and I left when I was supposed to. Um I and I I owe that to journaling, but there's um I don't know, are you familiar, Josh, with the hero's journey? Uh no, I'm not. Okay, so the hero's journey is this uh Joseph Campbell, he's uh a professor, or he was a professor, and he studied comparative mythology um all over the world, you know, Native American, uh Far East, uh Celtic, Germanic, you know, all these different things. And he found the same plot that was in all of them. And uh and he called it the hero's journey. And essentially the hero starts out stuck, they don't realize they're a hero. And then they there's a call to adventure, you know, whether it's a uh a wise old wizard that shows up and says, come on, let's go do something with this ring, or uh a droid that shows up and show says that like, you know, Obi-Wan Kenobi, you're my only hope, you know, come save me. But like there's some sort of herald that shows up. And then I think in our lives, like it's you know, a person that you have a conversation with, uh, maybe you you get fired, maybe you you don't get a good OER, something happens, and then you begin this call to adventure, and uh the hero steps out into this crazy world, meets crazy people, uh, crazy characters, and ultimately the apex of this special world is this ordeal, this fight with the villain. Uh the hero slays the villain, and then in slaying the villain, the hero gets this special gift. Um, you know, whether it's a magical elixir or uh some sort of special power comes back to their community again with this gift. And, you know, as I as I look back on my own life, I think we take the hero's journey multiple times. And I know for a fact, Josh, that I wouldn't be doing what I'm doing today if I didn't go on that initial journey of that army career. Um, you know, like there's like one definition of the special world where it's full of outlandish characters, and I think you and I can agree that the army is 100% full of uh of out of outlandish characters. But the other part of that too is the hero gets help from allies and mentors all along the way. And so, you know, for me, um, I discovered this gift that I had for leadership, for leader development, for writing and creating by taking the hero's journey and going through that 20-year career in the army, you know, going through all the highs and lows. Um, because every challenging assignment that I had, like every low point that I had, I learned something about myself. And, you know, eventually, because of journaling, because of understanding my values, I began to recognize that what the army needed of me, I was no longer willing to give. Like it was time for me to leave. Like I had served my time and now I was ready. I had had the magical elixir, you know, that was my my gift of writing, and I was ready to return home and and bring this to everybody else and share all these lessons. And so that's ultimately what happened. Um, and I don't think I talked about any of that in the article. Um, but that's ultimately, you know, I think a lot of people, and everybody has different reasons, um, but they get out of the army when when they're not ready yet. You know, they just they have a bad assignment, they have a bad commander, uh, things don't necessarily go their way. Um, and for me, I think that I got out like right when it was time. Like I started feeling this pull uh several years ago that I needed to step out and embrace this new identity as a writer. And uh it was time to shed that old one as a as a military leader.

SPEAKER_03 32:27

I think that that that's a powerful statement right there, man, is that a lot of people who get out of the military before their time is really up, that's where the darkness kind of creeps in in a way, right? Like if we move into the civilian world and we're not fully complete yet with what we need to do in the military, it's hard to reconnect with like that same passion and purpose. And like to me, like that's a formula for fulfillment. You you've you've culminated, I guess like use a military term, like in the military. You you you did everything you wanted to do and you knew it was the right time for you to transition out. Um, a lot of people they'll get frustrated. I remember some really, really good friends of mine who are stuck on brigade staff with me, waiting for a company commander, like, screw it, I'm gonna go get a headhunter company, I'm gonna get out. And I was in that same boat too. Like, I was interviewing with headhunter companies. I was and then I was starting to think of like, hey, I deserve a command. I I I do all these things, and then I realized like, hey, that's kind of like selfish. I know what the big picture is, I want to be a company commander, and I want to go do my 05 command. These are the things that I want to do, um, and these are my long-term goals. Like, this is just a season that I'm going in right now, but how you kind of frame that beautifully, like within a hero's journey, kind of reminds me. I don't know if you've ever heard of this before, but it's called a story brand framework. It's all almost pretty similar, um, but that's guarantee you that's where that guy got that framework from.

SPEAKER_01 33:51

Yeah, yeah, that's where uh uh Donald Um, I can't think of his name, that's exactly what I think of his name. Where where he got it from, and and and and there's something else too, like it I used to have this conversation a lot with my wife. Um, but like in command, like I think that like when you're on your path, and Joseph Campbell says, is it when you're on your path, uh doors will open where there weren't doors before, and doors will open for you that wouldn't have opened for anybody else. And so, like, when in kind of like in this hero's journey mindset that Campbell produces is that there's like signs and symbols like all around you that let you know that hey, you are on the right path. And I remember all throughout command, like helping people through major life transitions, whether it was a divorce, whether it was getting out of the army, whether it was changing branches, um, you know, going to a special mission unit, going special forces. Um, I mean, there were so many different things that happened. And I recognized that like I was right where I needed to be at the right time for those people. Like that was the role that I was supposed to play. And so for me, that was like, okay, this is where this is where I was at. This is where I was supposed to be all along, was to be in this position. And so I think uh, you know, now, like and it's crazy. So the doors where there were no doors before and wouldn't be for anybody else. It was like six months um before I was out of the army. And it's one thing, have you seen Jerry McGuire, Josh?

SPEAKER_03 35:27

Oh, yeah, 100%.

SPEAKER_01 35:28

Yeah, dude, it's one thing to be like, all right, I'm getting out, I'm going to do my own thing. And then when the reality of that hits you, it is the scariest thing. People ask me, like, was it a tough decision? It wasn't a tough decision, but once I made it, I was scared to death. I had absolute faith that the doors would open that were supposed to open. I just didn't like, I just wasn't sure how the story was gonna unfold. And so I remember it was January 1st, and it was like, okay, I'm I'm changing command in six months, and I'm gonna go internally right from there. And I sat down with my wife and like we looked at our finances about like what it was gonna look like when we got back here to North Carolina, and I was like, I I don't I don't know how this is gonna this is gonna work. Like, this is really scary. And within a week, uh Ryan Holiday reached out and was like, hey man, what are you doing next? And I was like, uh I'm still figuring it out. And and I was like, I don't know, you know, like I need to take time or whatever. And he I remember he's like, I think it would be a lot better if you knew you had something to go into, it would take some stress off. And so we basically were like, I was like, okay, let's do it. And so that ended up, you know, I've learned so much about riding since getting out and and working with him. And so I like again, I I it goes back to like the hero's journey. Like that was like in my mind, the universe showing that, like, okay, you're ready for this next phase now as a rider with that gift.

Seasons Of A Career And The Hero’s Journey

SPEAKER_03 37:09

Today's show sponsor comes from 10th Mountain Whiskey and Spirit Company. They are a philanthropic award-winning craft distillery located in the heart of the Rocky Mountains in Colorado. For being a listener of Tales of Leadership, you'll get 10% off on any order using the promo code PandoCommando when you place an order at 10th Whiskey.com. Both of those are in the show notes, so you'll be able to find them. 10th Mountain Whiskeys and Spirit Company are honors heroes and they craft a legacy. I've commanded two organizations in the 10th Mountain, and both of which are very deeply impactful to me. This is a company that I stand behind. And if you're looking for a great bottle of bourbon, look no further at 10th Mountain Whiskey and Spirit Company. Back to the show. That's absolute gold. Um, I I never shy away like from my faith, it's a pillar of like who I am. But I always think that there's like God whispers like on my journey, and I've always looked back at that, and I've never thought of it like a hero's journey perspective. But one of the quick story, and then I'll shut up because you're you're in a soldier. Yeah, man, you're good. I was company command. I you know, I've lost soldiers in combat, but it's always harder to lose soldiers in garrison to like preventable things. I I'm from rural West Virginia, uh, not common, right? Especially for like army officers. Like uh I had two soldiers that both passed away in my first company command from rural West Virginia. One of them was Hurricane, but if you're from West Virginia, it's called Hurricane. Don't ask me why it's just the name of it. The first time that that happened, yeah, I was really like questioning myself as like a leader. Like, am I made for this? Am I cut out for this? Uh maybe I've combinated, maybe I'm no longer like what the army needs me to be. And then the second time it happened, I was in Iraq and I got like that uh notification for the SIR six. Six means a death. Um and I was like, death, man. And then uh I just broke down in front of my sergeant major and uh he's like, hey, reflect on this and then um see what good comes out of it. And I and I I didn't I didn't understand that, but I remember now going to Jacob's memorial, sitting back there with the family, and it just dawned on me maybe I am the right person, but maybe like these two things happen because I'm from rural West Virginia, I can connect with these families authentically, more so than other people could. And then it dawned on me like, well, maybe I still have more in me, and maybe I need to stay in the army for these hard type things. And that was like a pivot point for me. Um like losing those two soldiers and really like deeply reflecting on it where other people would have been like, screw it, I'm done. I've lost too many people. Uh I'm now gonna make a pivot. But I love how you kind of framed that into like that Cortez moment for you, like when you got out. You you make the decisions easy to do, but once you burn the bridges, there's no retreat. So now you're now you're a civilian and you have to you have to move forward, right? Like, how are you gonna do that? You have that burning desire, and it's funny how like these little god whispers, the right people come into your life at the right time to keep you on azimuth so you keep moving forward.

SPEAKER_01 40:19

Yeah, dude, even even command, like I had made a decision because I was so happy at JSOC. I loved working there, I love the people, we're in a good community, I had an awesome job, and I didn't want to leave. Um, and I was starting, I had already been selected for command, already selected to go to Germany, and you know, which is an assignment that people would fight for. And I was like, you know what? Like, I don't know, I don't know. Like, I think that maybe I should just turn that down and just stay here. Like, everything is too good. And uh I was like wrestling with this decision, and then uh this sergeant major, uh, this Haitian sergeant major came up to me uh and was like, hey man, like I've been thinking, um, I really think you need a command. And like we hadn't been having a conversation about commanding, and uh, and then he explained why. And it was like, hey, like, I think you've been writing about leadership, you've been talking about leadership. Now it's time to put those ideas into action and really test yourself. And he's like, I think you're gonna learn a lot about yourself in the process. And that that moment, man, was so uh heavy for me that like I remember I journaled about it that night and was like, all right, I'm going to command now. So yeah, I think I definitely think that you know for me it was the universe sending uh that herald down to be like, hey, keep keep going, you're not you're not done yet. So and and things happen, other things happened in command too that was like, okay, like, yep, this was this was it, this is what I was supposed to do.

SPEAKER_03 41:49

Yeah, dude, that's awesome, brother. So it kind of transitioned out from the green notebook. You started doing this while you were active duty. Can you walk me through like what was the inspiration behind that? And then what are some of the the free like tools that you're providing right now in terms of from the green notebook?

Transition Fears, Doors Opening, And Mentors

SPEAKER_01 42:08

Yeah, so I was working, I got pulled up to work for Major General at the time, Major General H.R. McMaster at the maneuver center, and he wanted to create a website where maneuver leaders could come and study the profession, everything from leadership to uh maneuver tactics to history, and he pulled in all these amazing minds from um outside the military to help work on this, and they were doing it out of the kindness of their hearts, but it was funny because we were doing something, creating something out of nothing with not a real budget. Uh everybody and their brother pushed back against it. Oh, you can't post stuff, like it's got to have a CAC card access. And you know, when you put something behind the firewall, it immediately kills it. And so um it was just it was like one pain point after another. Well, we finally got it up online and it died like as soon as he left. Um, but I remember watching it and being like, man, like I could do something better if I wasn't confined by the military. So I started the blog and I did that. Uh I did it anonymously actually for the first six months because I didn't want people to see a combat arms officer thinking and writing. I was scared to. And so eventually, like I put my name on it, but then my friends would be like, Hey, can I post something on your site? And I was like, Yeah. And then people I didn't know started asking me to and uh started sending me emails for submissions, and then people started volunteering. Um, I asked for people to help out, and they did. And so it's it's really cool. Like, from the Green Notebook is me, but it's also this group of company grade officers who it's passed down. Like some people aren't even in the military anymore that have kept it going now since 2016. Some of them are in battalion command now. Some of them are yeah, like are in the process of retiring. But like people, and some of them have retired, but people like volunteers have kept this site going by editing the submission. So we have over a thousand articles. Our three pillars are read, write, reflect. So there's articles on reading, on reading list, there's uh on writing, which is like we look at it as anything in communication. So how to brief, how to write emails, uh, how to be a better communicator, and then finally reflect. And that's everything from lessons learned in organizations to um I don't um like you know just lessons on life. And so it's uh it ranges from young NCOs all the way up to general officers have posted on the site. And then we have the podcast, which is uh, you know, I I just released episode 147 today, and we are closing in, we're like uh 1,500 downloads away from half a million, which is that's incredible, man. Which is awesome for a small niche podcast. Yeah. And then we have uh the monthly reading list email, which is my reading recommendations. I've been doing that since 17, three to five books a month that I recommend folks read. Um, and then we have a weekly email, the the Sunday email, which is something I've been doing. It's a it's good, it's really forced me to reflect every single week and put like a small um you know, a small email together, like the one that we were just actually talking about with the different roles, responsibilities, and cost costumes or behaviors, responsibilities, and costumes that we have in leadership roles. So yeah, so it's so every actually everything we have, Josh, is free. And I've been very fortunate because that stuff is very expensive to do like the podcast editing, the hosting, the newsletter. And so um, like Alpha Coffee has, you know, they carried the website forever. Um, Roger Bank, which is this awesome bank that caters just to military, like it was founded by uh former service members, and so they make it so easy. Um, and then Adaton, which is completely revolutionizing the way that we do business. And then I'm starting to team up with new folks like Fight Camp and uh and others to to help keep it going so everybody can enjoy these free resources. And I'll just say this is it uh a lot of people are like, oh, that's great, man, that you have this thing, like I'm sure it makes a lot of money. No, nope, this is a hobby for itself. Like the only the only thing that's awesome about this is like we're not paying out of pocket anymore because of all these people. So yeah, I think that was a very long answer to a very short question.

SPEAKER_03 46:56

Sorry, dude, but you have so much going on, and we share some similarities too, because when I started doing this podcast, I was afraid how people would judge me. Like in the active military status, like, hey, here's this infantry guy, and he's posting about leadership. And like, I do it from a standpoint is like knowledge is free, it's all around us, it's how we communicate that, and maybe the way I define it could resonate with someone, and then when they're put in a position of influence and title and they have that authority, they're gonna lead with purpose, integrity, and then motivate people, influence them, inspire them, and maybe save a life. Keep someone in the military before they transition out. And to your point, too, is like everything is free, and people don't understand that. Like with what you did and what you're doing, the amount of content that you're pushing out uh that is absolutely free and is gold, by the way. I just listened to the Stan McChristal of where he talks about uh convictions equal, really like values, that formula that he walked through. That's super powerful. Like, where else could you have that type of like open source knowledge base on leadership from the tactical level all the way to the strategic level? 100% free. People pay thousands of dollars for leadership coaches for that stuff, and you're just doing it for free. And that's why I have so much respect for you. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_01 48:14

I appreciate it, man. And as you know, like you know, you you've been doing this for a little bit too. Like, I've seen a lot of people just be like, hey, I want to start a podcast or I want to start a website, and you really have to be passionate about doing this um in order to to just keep doing it, regardless of whether you got a sponsorship this month or or not. And I think also like I look at it, so I I I still struggle with telling people stuff, you know. Like, yeah, I've learned and I I've I I the my experiences now and reflecting on them have I think have granted me like a uh a source of wisdom. Um, but the way I look at it for myself is I'm just starting a conversation. Like I'm not telling people, you know, what to do or how to live. I'm just starting a conversation about leadership, starting a conversation about power, like, you know, just recommending that people reflect on the reason why they're doing what they're doing. And for me, like that turns the uh that was like something that Ryan said. It's like you turn the dial down on the pressure that you put on yourself or that feeling, like you said, like who's this infantry officer to be talking about, or this acquisitions officer to be talking about leadership? Like you're not, you're just starting a conversation about leadership, and uh, and you're leaving it up to the other person to to you know finish it.

SPEAKER_03 49:38

So yeah, one of one of the favorite episodes I think that you've had was with uh General Steve Marks, and it talks about like how you picked your top five values. So Colonel Ramsey did that with uh Ramsey Oliver did that with us when he came in, is that he set us down, he uh went through this framework. Hey, what are your core values? Um, out of these like 45 that are there, choose your top five and then explain to me why those are important to you, and then let's look at that from a formation as a whole. Um, like there's just so much wisdom there. And like that's the kind of stuff that I think separates what I call a purposeful, accountable leader, a pal, of like just genuinely caring about the right people. And I know that too was like the first time I think in your career that a leader actually set you down and asks you, like, hey, what what do you care about, right? Like, what are your core values?

SPEAKER_01 50:26

Yeah, I was amazed. Like, I don't know what your I'm sure your experience because you were infantry, it was the same as mine, but before that, like you would go in for your initial counseling, especially with your senior raider, and it would be like like they wouldn't even let you talk. Like, it was like, let me tell you about the organization and my five rule, whatever. And like you you would leave and you're like, or it'd be like a group of people and they were just talking, and then here's this guy. He's like, Hey, here's a list of 50 value cards. I need you to whittle this down to five, and I need you to figure out your purpose statement. And I was like, Oh man, and you know, like this is tough, and and then like to sit down and have the conversation with them, and and I'm glad you brought that up, Josh. Like, I still carry that around in my notebook. Um, that those values, and and the other thing I learned is that they've evolved since doing that in 2017 with with now major general marks. Um, they've evolved in like I have a new value that I didn't necessarily notice back then, and I have added that, and I've taken these other values and they've kind of fallen down a little bit. So I think it's really important uh to continually re-uh look at those values.

SPEAKER_03 51:45

Yeah, a hundred percent. And I can't remember the name of their or the number of that episode, but I'll find it and I'll put it in the show notes because that was that was a pretty impactful one, at least for me.

SPEAKER_01 51:54

Yeah, yeah, I've talked about it, and it's funny. That particular interview, uh, this was originally a two-host show. And uh the particular interview, I was at BCAP and couldn't make it because the interview time changed. And so the other guy did that particular episode and they talk about it. Uh, but I definitely I know I've definitely talked about it several times over the years on the show.

SPEAKER_03 52:15

Yeah. So what's next for you, man? Like you're crushing it right now from the Green Notebook, uh, getting ready to jump into like the journaling space. What's next for you? Next five years, what do you want to accomplish?

Origin Of From The Green Notebook

SPEAKER_01 52:26

Dude, so uh I so this is probably something that uh a lot of people who are goal setters will um like frown upon, and you can cut this out if you want, but like I I have learned that there's uh a difference between enjoying doing something and saying I've done something. And so my, you know, like a lot of people called me because they wanted to say they've done a podcast or say that they've started a blog, but they didn't actually enjoy doing the podcast or doing the blog.

SPEAKER_03 53:03

That's wisdom right there, man. I love that.

SPEAKER_01 53:05

And so for me, it's my goal for the next five years is to enjoy what I'm doing every single day. And so, like eventually, you know, like I've I've written the Hero's Journey book. I'm sitting on the manuscript right now, and I'm gonna hold on to it for a little while for a bunch of different reasons. Um, but my goal is to to you know write a book, you know, that's that's published, you know, by a mainstream publisher. So, you know, on one hand, I'm working for Ryan and and doing like grunt work, but it's like an apprenticeship. And I'm watching how Ryan writes books and his process, and like I just uh, you know, I've I've kept notebooks forever. There are notebooks all over this office of quotes and passages, but like now sitting on my uh my side table is a is a box of note cards, which is the same process that that Ryan uses, um, that Robert Green taught him. And so I'm uh I'm starting to use that now in my writing. And so we'll see see what it produces a couple of years from now. But that's my big thing, man, is to uh just enjoy what I'm doing and to be able to be present uh you know here here at home. So that's my that's my goal for it, just to keep doing that. That's what I want to do.

SPEAKER_03 54:21

That that is absolute wisdom because I find myself chasing like that uh goal versus growth mindset, is like I gotta keep going, I gotta keep going, I gotta keep going. But I slow down, find enjoyment in what you're doing, and like everything else will come. That that's powerful.

SPEAKER_02 54:37

It's time for our final show segment that I like to call the killer bees. These are the same four questions that I ask every guest on the Tales of Leadership podcast. Be brief, be brilliant, be present, and be gone.

SPEAKER_03 54:54

Question one. What do you believe separates a good leader from an extraordinary leader?

SPEAKER_01 54:59

Oh, it's uh self-awareness. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 55:02

Number two, so this is gonna be a hard one, I think, for you. Can you recommend one book or resource or tool that has had a huge impact on your leadership growth? Yeah, I figured that was going to be a challenge.

SPEAKER_01 55:16

Yeah, I'll say I'll do the very like one of the very first books I read that has stayed with me over the course of a 20-year career, and that's Gates of Fire by Stephen Pressfield.

SPEAKER_03 55:24

Yeah, that's a good book, man. Um, number three, what advice would you give someone who's just starting off on their leadership journey?

SPEAKER_01 55:34

Um, I would say that to be curious, uh, never stop being curious, you've never arrived, and continually invest the time and effort into studying your profession, whatever that is.

SPEAKER_03 55:48

Last question. So, where can our listeners connect with you and add value to what you're currently doing? Oh man, that was an easy one, Josh. Uh softball.

SPEAKER_01 55:56

Yeah, www from the green notebook.com, our website. I'm on LinkedIn. Uh, you can find me there. We're on Instagram, Facebook, and uh X, not as much as we we used to be. Uh, but any of those places uh you can reach out, you can DM me or uh shoot me an email at Joe at from the green notebook.com.

SPEAKER_03 56:16

Yeah, dude, this has been a phenomenal episode. So thanks for being patient with me of just getting this together. I've had, I think, four pages of notes that I've taken. Uh, so I'm I'm looking forward to applying these in my leadership journey. So thanks again, brother.

SPEAKER_01 56:29

Uh it's awesome, Josh. Thanks for having me on the show and best of luck to you.

Free Tools, Community, And Sustainability

SPEAKER_03 56:36

All right, team. It's time for our after action review, and that was a phenomenal episode with Joe. I I'm trying to keep episodes to an hour. I I could totally do a Joe Rogan, especially with Joe, uh, because he seems like a kindred spirit, and I could have a two-hour conversation with him. Um, but I try to keep it to a two hour. So what are my top three takeaways? Number one is boundaries, and Joe's talked about this through shedding your costume. And just to kind of give you an example of what we mean by this, especially as a military officer, or even my wife, we use that as an example right now. So she's a registered nurse, and within the military community that we live in on Fort Belvoir, she does uh nursing uh that allows her to go to people's homes. One of the places she services is in our community. She could literally walk less than a block away uh to go there, but what does she do? She puts on her scrubs, which she doesn't have to do for this job. She gets in her car, packs her lunch, and drives there because she's now putting on that role. There's a level of distinction that I want to make. You're putting on a costume, right? Like that means you're mentally being there, uh headspace and timing for whatever you're going to do. If you're an army officer, if you're an entrepreneur, a small business owner, uh senior executive, whatever have you. But you're still the same person. You still have those same core values, that same level of character. Uh, you do not change your personality, you just become intentional on where you want to be, and you have to set those boundaries. Uh, because when you get ready to come home, especially with me, one of the hardest things of doing is just decompressing. And if you don't have a way to decompress, when you do get home, you'll feel that level of burnout, but really it's just frustration because you're just mentally on the go all the time. Number two, understand the hero's journey. So kind of that framework that we talked about is a character, uh, a hero uh is going to do something. They number two, they encounter a problem, an obstacle, something in their path that is blocking them from doing something. And then number three, they meet someone or they meet a guide who is authority on that subject. And number four, that uh shaman or the dude gives him a plan, a roadmap, a way to be successful. And then number five, they call them to action, they bring them in somehow. They have a plan, and now they're taking the action number six that helps them avoid failure. They now take an action, they have a clear plan, they've overcome that obstacle, and then number seven, the end is successful. That is a hero's journey. If you ever watch any Disney movie, it's it it is those seven steps. Uh, but understand that's where you're at right now in life. That's a clear framework to kind of think about where you're at. I guarantee you we all overcome obstacles. If you ever read Dan Solomon's book, Who Not How? And I use this all the time because it's just a life hack. Maybe you're in an obstacle right now that you can't overcome, but who in your sphere of influence has the skills to help you overcome it? Who could help you do that? Maybe it's a book, maybe it's journaling, and that's another huge subset with this too, is the hero's journey is you need to spend time reflecting. And Joe's superpower is that. And journaling, I listen, I'm in a I'm a combat arms guy. Uh, I'm an infantry guy, I've worked in SOCOM, I've led in 10th Mountain Infantry Division, uh, I've been to Afghanistan, I've been to Iraq, all those things. Journaling has been a game changer for me. And Joe said it, you spend 99% of the time with who you, right? Like you you need to understand subconsciously some of those hard problem sets, and you have to work through them. So I encourage you go get his 90-day journaling uh that you can get on Amazon uh or find a way that works for you because it will make a difference, I promise you. And then finally, find enjoyment in what you do to be fulfilled in life. I think it's a simple equation passion plus purpose. If you have those two things, if you are passionate about what you're doing, meaning that you are getting an intrinsic motivation, you're finding joy, plus you get a deep sense of purpose, then you are fulfilled. Enjoyment is a part of that. So let's say you're you're running a small business or you're a non-commissioned officer right now, or you're an officer, whatever you're doing, whatever you're doing right now, find enjoyment in what you're doing. Don't chase goals, chase growth. And James Clear does this beautifully in Atomic Habits of Inside Out Thinking. Who do you want to become? What are the behaviors that need to be modeled? The outcomes will naturally come. Stop focusing on goals, just go for the ride. Uh, and I love how he talked about the next five years. He's like, I'm just gonna find enjoyment in what I'm doing. Because if you're authentic, people will listen. And that was one of the best pieces of advice that uh I've heard on this show, and it's refreshing to hear too, uh, from someone who's shared the same similar journey as me. All right, team. If you found enjoyment in this podcast episode, uh it would be a huge favor to me because it helps me grow my sphere of influence and get my message out. If you could do these four things, number one, like, share, and subscribe to this podcast wherever you listen, because you can find it on any major platform. Number two, leave a review, send us feedback. I absolutely love hearing from you. If there's a certain topic you want me to talk about, whatever it is, doesn't matter. Number three, follow me on social media. You can find me at Tells the Leadership on basically every single platform. But the big three that I'm really focusing on is YouTube, uh, Instagram, and then LinkedIn. And then number four, support the show. Um, everything that I make a hundred percent goes back into making free content. I make zero money from this uh because I'm not doing it from that standpoint. I want to provide you the best tools uh and knowledge to go be equipped as a leader to take on those challenges that the world will throw you. As always, team, I am your host, Josh McMillian, saying every day's a gift. Don't waste yours. I'll see you next time.