Questions and Answers with Pastor Voddie Baucham

 Sit down with Pastor Baucham, whose remarkable transformation from a non-Christian background to a life dedicated to the gospel is as enlightening as it is moving. Our conversation spins a compelling narrative around the formation of the Biblical canon, delving into the early church's careful curation of sacred texts and why certain books, like the Apocrypha, didn't make the cut. But that's just the beginning; we also unravel the mysteries of textual criticism and the fascinating impact of ancient manuscripts on today's Bible, reassuring believers of the scripture's authenticity.

The Middle East is often at the forefront of prophetic discourse, and we're tackling the tough questions: Are we living in the biblical end times? Pastor Baucham shares his insights on the links between contemporary Middle Eastern events and eschatological prophecies. The conversation takes a critical turn as we confront the challenges posed by the surge of self-proclaimed prophets and miracle workers, scrutinizing their authenticity against the unwavering supremacy of scripture. Navigating the nuanced cultural religious landscapes, particularly in Africa, we discuss the pastor's role in boldly countering false doctrines, including the prosperity gospel, and calling out those who mislead the flock.

Wrapping up our deep dive, we grapple with the sensitive topic of homosexuality, where Pastor Baucham provides a nuanced traditional Biblical viewpoint, discussing its implications on individuals and society. This episode doesn't shy away from controversy, casting a critical eye on the extravagant lifestyles of some pastors as showcased in "Pastors of LA," and questioning the influence of hip-hop culture on Christian practices. Yet through it all, our focus remains steadfast on the authenticity and divine inspiration of the Bible, reinforcing its place as the cornerstone of the Christian faith amidst a world of shifting cultural tides. Tune in for a candid reflection on Christianity's intersection with today's societal issues.

Welcome to Biblical Talks Podcast with Michael Tolliver, this podcast is dedicated to biblical teaching and having world views discussions from a biblical perspective. Here is today’s Podcast. 

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:32

Welcome to Biblical Talks. My name is Michael Tolliver. Each month we try to do a question and answer from pastors and the evangelists or professors from seminaries. Today, in this month in April, we're going to do a question and answer from Pastor Voldemarck. People ask some interesting questions and I think it would be very interesting some of these questions, and there might be some of the questions that you have to answer too. So let's listen to the question answered from Pastor Voddenbocken.

Speaker 2: 1:13

First question, vody, someone would like to know your own testimony. How has this reliable, historical, powerful book uh confronted you and brought about your salvation.

Speaker 3: 1:24

Yeah, my testimony is I'm a sinner saved by grace. My testimony is that, uh, uh, Christ redeemed me from my sin. Um, I didn't grow up around Christians or Christianity. I was raised by a single teenage Buddhist mother in Los Angeles, California. I never heard the gospel until I went to university and a gentleman came and spoke to me there and spent a few weeks with me answering questions that I had. Spent a few weeks with me answering questions that I had.

Speaker 3: 1:58

And that's when and where and how this truth got a hold of me and I realized that I was without God in the world. I realized that I didn't have any righteousness of my own and I realized that, you know, really, this is the way, my simplistic way of understanding where I came to. I realized that every other religion in the world could basically be summarized this way you need to have a religious experience and then do more good things than bad things and hope for the best when you die. You know. But, number one, I can't be good. I know this. Number two, what about all the stuff I did before my religious experience and the Bible's message that Christ died for sin once for all, the just, for the unjust, in order that he might bring us back to God. It really that's what God used to get a hold of me and to cause me to realize that everything out there was just religion, but that God provided a savior and I was radically saved.

Speaker 2: 3:10

Amen, Thank you. All right, Someone says I don't want to be the devil's advocate. But what if I say some people long ago decided to choose some and leave other books? And specifically, what about the Apocrypha?

Speaker 3: 3:24

I think that affirms the authority of the Bible. The fact of the matter is, the Bible is not the only thing that was ever written. It's not the only thing that was ever written about God, but the Old Testament has been in place since long before Jesus came. So we had the Old Testament canon just long before Jesus came, and the Apocrypha was not part of the Old Testament canon long before Jesus came. It wasn't recognized as part of the canon, and the New Testament was received early on by the church, mainly because of apostolic authority or connection to apostolic authority, and so the church received these books, because of the source of these books, and that's what should have been done and that's what we still do. This is why we understand and believe that we do have a closed canon.

Speaker 3: 4:25

There are other books that are out there, many of them. For example, you hear about things like the Gospel of Thomas or the Gnostic Gospels or things like this, the Acts of Paul and Thecla, so on and so forth. A lot of these things are written. Well, all of these things are written very late. For one thing, they're not written as early as the New Testament, but the second thing is there was a growth of literature about Jesus, fiction literature about Jesus in the second century and third century, and so on and so forth. And we know what these things are. We know what they look like, we know what their hallmarks are, so there's no reason to believe that these things are anything more than they are. So, yeah, the church has understood what scriptures have been authoritative for a long time, and the understanding of this authority was not vested in any individual. This was vested in apostolic authority, connections to Jesus and the things that were handed down to the church through that authority. So that's why we have what we have.

Speaker 2: 5:37

Okay, thanks. Have you considered differences between source manuscripts that are said to contradict themselves in thousands of places, namely the textus receptus, the majority manuscript and the minority ones, like Codex Vaticanus, which appear to be the ones used by most translations today? I suppose that relates to the King James Controversy Versus.

Speaker 3: 5:55

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3: 5:58

Here's the thing we have thousands of documents, we have multiple sources and we can trace these sources, collect these sources based on a number of things you know where they come from, the type of writing that's used in them, so on and so forth, and we know which ones are earlier, which ones are later, we know which ones we have in more abundance, and so on and so forth.

Speaker 3: 6:23

And so one of the things that's often done, for example, with the ending of Mark, with the ending of Mark, our Bibles will have brackets and it will say you know, this is not contained in our oldest and most reliable manuscripts. You know, we can do that and we can say that, and there's no problem doing that or saying that, because we do have a long, robust history of textual criticism and there aren't that many differences between manuscripts. I mean, there really aren't, especially when you consider the volume. You, especially when you consider the volume, when you consider the volume of the Bible, and you talk about the kinds of differences that we're talking about in different manuscripts. We're not usually talking about differences in terms of content. We're talking about differences, sometimes in terms of content. We're talking about differences in terms of, sometimes in terms of emphasis, sometimes in terms of word placement and things like that. But again, the vast number of manuscripts that we have makes the Bible more reliable, not less.

Speaker 2: 7:34

All right, assuming I agree with you. You, the scripture is inspired. This person says how can I know the bible is complete? Actually, two different people ask the same question. What about other books? How do we know we have all the books that we should?

Speaker 3: 7:47

yeah. What about other books? How do we know? We have all the books that we should, because God preserved his word. That's how we know, because God preserved his word. That's how we know, because God preserved his word, and there's nothing lacking in what we have. This whole thing, this whole. What about other books? Again, that's Dan Brown's science fiction. This is new. This is from movies. This is not from research. This is not from history. Again, I mean, it surprises me sometimes.

Speaker 3: 8:24

I was watching a video earlier today talking about James White and one of the gentlemen that he debates frequently and he frequently debates the best Islamic scholars on planet Earth, and one of the guys that he debates frequently brought up this whole. You know Constantine. You know we want these books and not those books. Get rid of those books. You know, type thing. And James and this is his friend, he has friendships with these people, you know they have friendly debates and he's just going.

Speaker 3: 8:57

I can't believe that this guy's doing this. No researcher worth his salt should be doing this, because there is no evidence of it. That's fiction. That's Dan Brown. That's Da Vinci Code. Nothing like that has happened in history. There's no record of anything like that has happened in history. There's no record of anything like that ever happening in history.

Speaker 3: 9:21

And again, do we believe that we have these thousands of manuscripts and portions of manuscripts and that in the New Testament times, the early church received these documents, received these epistles, received these letters, receive these gospels, and that somehow, in the midst of all of this, with all of these documents being written by hand and spread out all over the world, that we collected up one stream of them and burned them all? I mean, is that really what we've come to believe? First of all, why? Why? Why? Because, guess what? There are other things out there, like I told you, the Acts of Paul and Tecla, the Gospel of Thomas, and these other things, these other types of writings. They're out there.

Speaker 3: 10:11

So, evidently, this burning business wasn't too successful, right, because there's stuff that's out there. The other thing is, we know where they come from, we know what kind of literature they are and we know that they're not Bible, okay. So, again, and it's, it's. It's really disturbing that this has so much traction, you know, but but it does, and we need to be, we need to be aware of it, we need to be aware that it has a lot of traction and we need to understand that it has absolutely no basis, in fact, no basis in history. This is not how the canon came together. Canon didn't come together through book burning.

Speaker 2: 11:23

Thank you. Someone says the Middle East. What does the bible say about what's going on in the middle east, the demise, the turmoil at present? Is this the end times? What does it say?

Speaker 3: 11:40

yeah, um, the bible talks about the end times, in the last days, and it's a reference to the entire period between Jesus' first and second coming. So we're in the end times, we're in the last days, and we have been since Jesus' death, burial, resurrection and ascension, and we will be until Jesus comes back.

Speaker 2: 12:12

Next question yeah, next question, yeah. A lot of this person says a lot of people in africa follow prophets and miracle workers instead of or in place of the bible. What is your comment on this?

Speaker 3: 12:23

yeah, um, there have been major threats throughout history. In fact, one of the reasons, the reasons that many of the epistles were written, was because there were major threats immediately to the New Testament church, and so the apostles are responding directly to these major threats that we've had throughout time, throughout history, and nothing's changed. We still have major threats. Nothing's changed. We still have major threats.

Speaker 3: 12:48

There are major threats in terms of groups like Roman Catholicism that would argue that there is an authority in the world today that is, they would say, equal to, and I would say, if there's authority that's equal to the Bible and the canon is closed, then that authority that's still speaking has more authority than the one that's done.

Speaker 3: 13:12

That's a threat to the authority of the Bible. That's one stream, okay, and another stream is related to it, and that's the one that's raised here, and that is the stream that says that the Bible is not enough, that you need new revelation, that the Bible is not enough, that you need new revelation, that you need power encounters, that you need extraordinary means over here, as though we've exhausted everything that we have in the Bible and now we got to go to something else. This is hugely problematic and there are people who are drawn away in both of these directions, and both of them are a direct threat and contradiction to the authority of God's Word, to the authority of the Scriptures. And it's hugely problematic, you know, not just in this world, in this part of the world. It's uniquely problematic in this part of the world, I would say, compared to what we experience where we are. But it's nothing new, man, it's nothing new and the New Testament addresses this kind of stuff directly.

Speaker 2: 14:22

You've been to Africa? How many times now? Five, okay. You've been here the last month. You've been friends with Conrad and Bewe and others for years. What should we be doing about the prosperity gospel, the health and wealth gospel? Do you think Christians are too harsh about it? Do you think we should be quiet? We should be vocal. What should the average healthy church's response be? And how do we rescue people?

Speaker 3: 14:46

Yeah, I think there's a number of issues that need to be addressed and I think there are some things that need to be written in this part of the world for this part of the world, addressing the charismatic movement as it exists here, because it's different here and some of the historical and traditional roots here tend to make it stick in different ways here than it does in other places. And so, for example, in the US, we've got the kingdom of the cults and Jehovah's Witnesses, answered verse by verse, and we've got charismatic chaos and we've got, you know, truth, wars and you know all these other things that have been written. But they're written, but they're being written about the American context. We need some of those things being written here, being written about this particular context and addressing these things head on. And these things need to be translated into the vernacular so that people can have them in their native tongues here, because this stuff is rampant, it's viral, you know, and so, yeah, that needs to happen, and I think there's an advantage here.

Speaker 3: 16:01

In the US, we believe that the 11th commandment is thou shalt be nice, and we don't believe the first 10. Man, but as thou shalt be nice and we don't believe the first 10. And so the idea of confronting error is just frowned upon. I think it's more appreciated here. I think directness and confrontation is more appreciated here, and I think right now it needs to happen. There's some things that need to happen, you know, in terms of direct confrontation of cults and heretics. You know that are just ravaging the land here.

Speaker 2: 16:37

Your church is down the street from Joel Osteen. Is there time for pastors to name names, or do you just need to lay out principles and expect people to connect the dots?

Speaker 3: 16:46

I do both. Yeah, I do both. But yeah, paul named names. You know, alexander the coppersmith did me much harm. You know, I love that.

Speaker 3: 16:56

He could have just said Alex. You know he could have just said no, alexander the coppersmith. You know the guy on Main Street around there down. I mean he points the guy out. You know, again, not in a way to be mean, but in a way to warn people.

Speaker 3: 17:11

And man, in our town there are a lot of people who don't understand what a threat Joel is, which makes him more of a threat. You know. You know I call him smiling Joel. You know, everything's just so nice and he's always so. You know what I mean. And, yeah, I call always. So you know what I mean. And and, yeah, I, I, I, I call his name.

Speaker 3: 17:31

You know, um, and some other folks whose names you know need to be called from time to time, not just because, hey, I feel like you know I need to call somebody's name, but as a, as a shepherd, when I feel like my sheep are in danger, then I do that. You know, titus 1.9,. You know I must hold firmly to the trustworthy word as taught, so that I can exhort in sound doctrine and refute those who contradict it. That's part of my job description, and so sometimes yeah sometimes, you know, I do have to name names when I see things that are becoming a direct threat to the sheep that I'm shepherding. So no, not just as a matter of course, just because you know you like naming people's names, but when it's a direct threat, you know, to the sheep, yeah, names need to be named.

Speaker 2: 18:21

Should Joyce Meyer be a part of our spiritual diet?

Speaker 3: 18:23

No, no. Why not? Because she's a heretic.

Speaker 2: 18:30

Yeah. What makes you say that? That's harsh yeah her teaching.

Speaker 3: 18:34

The gospel that she preaches is another gospel. Joyce Meyer preaches another gospel, not to mention the fact that she's assuming a role that women shouldn't assume. So no, now you're stirring, yeah.

Speaker 4: 18:48

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3: 18:49

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, so, yeah, no, no, just again, the gospel that she, the gospel that she preaches, is another gospel. It's the prosperity gospel. You know, and here's what's so dangerous about the prosperity gospel and john, I think john piper said it best the prosperity gospel is so dangerous because it promises exactly what our flesh wants. The true gospel says to your flesh you must die. The prosperity gospel says to your flesh you get to live. You know, you get everything that you, in your natural, sinful, carnal state, ever wanted. That is not the gospel, that's another gospel, you know. So, yeah, no.

Speaker 2: 19:33

Amen, Thank you. Do we have a place to question people's salvation? Is that fair? Do we have a place To question the people who claim to be saved, who are seemingly devout? Is it our place to call them to examine their faith? Yes, that's different.

Speaker 3: 19:49

Calling somebody to examine their faith. Yes, me making a declaration about whether or not somebody's a Christian, I can't do that. You know there's a few folks out there teaching that if they came to my church I wouldn't baptize them, you know, not based on what comes out of their mouth. But yeah, not making that. But yeah, calling people to examine themselves based on what they're teaching, absolutely.

Speaker 1: 20:16

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 20:17

So people leave your church at time. I mean, they walk out on a Sunday, sometimes having to re-examine whether they're saved or not. Is that your job as a preacher, or is that just too discouraging and too negative?

Speaker 3: 20:32

It depends on the text. I mean, if we're preaching and we do systematic exposition and there are some biblical passages that that's their focus, examine yourself, test yourself to see if you're being the faith. So, yes, it's appropriate for that to happen at times, but as a matter of course, not necessarily. But what we do want to do is uphold the gospel. The gospel needs to be proclaimed at all times, and we need always to call men to repentance and faith. So, rather than having people leave questioning whether they're Christians, my desire is that people leave, you know, clinging to their need for repentance and faith.

Speaker 2: 21:13

Someone also asked about if there's one Bible, why are there so many different churches and denominations? Why are we so fragmented? Aren't the Muslims unified? Aren't the Catholics unified?

Speaker 3: 21:21

Yeah, no, the Muslims are not unified, the Catholics are not unified. Anybody who says that doesn't know much about Muslims or Catholics. So no, but here's the thing there's so many of us and we're in so many different parts of the world and we have so many different needs and so many points of emphasis Just the size of the world explodes that myth. So if we're going to be in one church, where's it going to be and how are we going to get there weekly? Right, so is it? Whoever has the biggest airport hub? Then we all, just, you know, we all, just so that in and of itself, and then when Jesus says, go take the gospel to Pantata Ethne, that means that we're having to go to different people, groups. So we're going to different language groups and people, you know. So, yeah, we need, we need churches, and also, churches are local expressions, right, and because they're local expressions, there need to be many of them, millions and millions of them throughout the world. Yeah, so we, we, yeah, that's why we have so many churches, and some churches put the emphasis here and some churches put the emphasis there, but we're not changing the gospel.

Speaker 3: 22:32

Oftentimes, you know, our differences come, you know, to questions about how we, how we govern ourselves and how we organize ourselves, and that just has to do with the fact that there's so many of us and we can't all be together, so we're going to have to be, you know, in relation to one another somehow. How do we define that? Well, those things become a little bit more difficult to sort of nail down and be very specific about, and that's why you have a variety of different groups, but those groups are all Christian groups. So I'm not worried about there being a variety of different Christian groups. I'm not even worried about there being cults, to be honest with you, because Paul made this very clear even to Timothy in chapter four.

Speaker 3: 23:16

You know, preach the word be incident in season, out of season, reprove, rebuke, exhort with great patience and teaching. Why? Because the time is going to come when people will not endure sound doctrine but instead they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance with their own desires and they'll turn aside from following the truth and they'll turn to myths. And this is what's happening. That's where the cults come from, that's where the false teachers come from, that's where all this comes from. So far from that being evidence of a problem in Christianity, that's something that the New Testament told us was going to be part of our experience. And it is part of our experience. And it's just because you know Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. You know what's more effective To stand in front of people and tell a bald-faced lie or to cover your lie in the skin of the truth. That's what's more effective. That's why there's the cults.

Speaker 2: 24:16

Should we have different demographic type of churches, black churches, white churches, biker churches, traditional services, contemporary services, so forth?

Speaker 3: 24:26

Should we have different demographic type of churches? Yes, we should have different demographic type churches in the sense that, you know, there are different people groups that are going to be reached, and so people groups are going to have various cultures and languages, and so on and so forth. So, yes, but do we have different demographic churches just for the sake of demographics? Absolutely not. You know, there's a difference between demographic churches and niche churches. Demographic churches that's how you do missions. Niche churches that's a problem, you know. So we're the biker church or we're the young people church, or we're the old people church, or we're the black people church, or we're the biker church or we're the young people church, or we're the old people church, or we're the black people church or we're the white people church. Now you're having a problem. Now you're dividing the body. No, that's not appropriate.

Speaker 2: 25:21

Vot you've written a lot about family Brought seven of your kids ages 10 and under with you for the last month across Africa. Two of your books Family Driven Faith Family Shepherds.

Speaker 3: 25:32

Yes.

Speaker 2: 25:33

A little bit of why that is such a heartbeat of yours.

Speaker 3: 25:36

Yeah Well, I did a trilogy of books there and really the first of those Family Driven Faith was birthed out of. I mean, if you cut me, I believe apologetics, and particularly cultural apologetics, so kind of Francis Schaeffer type of applying the truth and the implications of the gospel to apologetic issues. And some of the most significant apologetic issues of our day surround biblical manhood, biblical womanhood, marriage and family. And so those things were birthed out of my desire to address those particular issues and also out of my own experience in that being such a significant thing for me personally. So those two things are what came together and sort of motivated that trilogy of books.

Speaker 2: 26:34

What should the church's response be to the same-sex marriage issue? How has your church handled this? What should the Christian response be?

Speaker 3: 26:42

You know, the Bible says that marriage is to be held in esteem among all, and this is not marriage being held in esteem. This is blasphemy. This is blasphemy against God. This is wickedness of the worst kind. Homosexuality is unique among sins. Let me say that again. Homosexuality is unique among sins. People want us to say, well, all sin is the same. That's not true. That's why Jesus said it will be worse for some on that day. So how can it be true that God just views all sin exactly the same, but Jesus says it will be worse for some on that day? So how can it be true that God just views all sin exactly the same, but Jesus says it would be worse for some? Okay, better for them to have a millstone tied around their neck and be cast into the deepest part of the sea, and he's talking about one who leads little ones astray.

Speaker 3: 27:32

Homosexuality is unique among sins in this way. Number one it's one of very few sins to be listed as an abomination. Not it's an abomination for Israel, but it's an abomination to God. For example, when you talk about things like their dietary laws and things like that, there were things that God said this is an abomination for you, israel because you're separate as a people and you're not to be like those people, so it would be an abomination for you. Homosexuality is not an abomination for Israel, it's an abomination period. Secondly, it's the only sin that has the distinction of being the cause of God raining fire and brimstone on the earth. There's no other sin. That was the cause of God destroying twin cities Okay. That was the cause of God destroying twin cities, okay. Thirdly, it has the distinction of being a direct affront to the picture of the Godhead and of the picture of the relationship between Jesus Christ and his church.

Speaker 3: 28:36

In these ways, homosexuality is a unique sin also. It's unique in that in the romans, one passage in the devolution of culture. It's unique in that that's the sin for which paul says men receive in their bodies the due penalty for their error. It's unique in that it, as a sin, is a direct affront to the image of God in man and the complementary way in which he made the human race. So this is wicked and it's something that must be confronted. It must be confronted because of its implications for societies and cultures. It must be confronted because of its implications for the individuals practicing this.

Speaker 3: 29:26

People who practice homosexuality have a rough go of it, man, it's tough. Their suicide rate is off the charts. Their domestic violence rate, higher than any other group of individuals charts their domestic violence rate higher than any other group of individuals. Their contraction of sexually transmitted diseases, again more than other groups or individuals, and not just sexually transmitted diseases but other sort of maladies that are caused that we won't go into, because there's young ears here. You know, by this lifestyle, their rate of alcoholism, because there's young ears here. You know, by this lifestyle, their rate of alcoholism higher than any other group that you can mention or name. This is something that's devastating to individuals, it's devastating to cultures, it's devastating to societies and it has implications that undermines the future of cultures that embrace homosexual marriage, because it undermines the very definition of marriage itself. It leads to the over-sexualization of young boys and young girls. I could go on, but there's huge implications to this particular issue and the way that it's been sort of sold to us has been masterful, in a very evil sort of way.

Speaker 2: 30:45

Alright, I have one final question, but perhaps we can take if there's anyone from the floor that has a final question that wants to raise their hand. We had a few less in the box than we expected, so you can be brief, ask brief, not statements, just questions and Vodhi will give the answer.

Speaker 4: 31:11

I was watching this on YouTube, which is quite shocking it's pastors of LA. That's all I have to say.

Speaker 3: 31:28

Pastors of LA. Have you all seen this? Yeah, okay, who's seen this? Who's seen Pastors of LA? Okay, you know what's interesting about that? Almost exclusively black people in the room. Who've seen that? Almost exclusively. Okay, who's seen Pastors of LA? I just thought I'd point that out.

Speaker 3: 31:58

Okay, pastors of LA is a reality TV show about a group of pastors. They're all black except one. There's one pastor who's a white pastor in Los Angeles, and what they did in order to make this reality TV show is, I believe they said what group of pastors could we choose? That would make Christianity look the worst and how can we follow their lives. And that's what they did and it is grievous, it's horrible, it's sad really, but this is a picture of the commercialization of Christianity in America. It's big business, man. It's big business, and pastors have become, in many areas like that, pastors have become everything but pastors, and that's what those men are. They're everything but pastors. And I mean these guys have five and know five and six cars in the garage, and there's the Rolls Royce, you know, there's the Bentley and there's the Mercedes and I think today I'm going to take the you know what? I mean? The Ferrari, and I mean it's just opulent, just it's ridiculous, it's absolutely ridiculous. They're all word of faith, prosperity type preachers. Yeah, I think every one of them is divorced and remarried. One of them is divorced and not remarried. I think every one of them, except the white guy, he's the only one who hadn't been divorced and remarried. So, yeah, yeah, and I think things like that are intentional, you know, I think.

Speaker 3: 33:48

I think that's what the enemy wants. I think you see that on television, for the same reason that you don't usually see John MacArthur on television. You know when they want to talk about, you know, cultural issues, they want some guy who stammers and sounds like an idiot and whatever, but someone who's unafraid, someone who will just tell them what the scripture says, who won't back down. You know who preached the gospel man. They don't want to hear from that guy. We don't. We don't want to hear from you. We want to hear from the person who ordains homosexuals, you know. We want to hear from the person who's, you know, social gospel, social justice, neo-marxism. You know. We want to hear from the person who's a heretic. These are the people that we want to represent Christianity and I think that's intentional, because there's a desire for the things that we preach to not be heard and I think you know, unfortunately, these guys don't even care that they're being used in this regard.

Speaker 3: 34:41

It's sad. Yeah, I bet they didn't come to John MacArthur. He's in LA, right Guaranteed. They didn't come to him, all right. Last question A young lady over here. I pointed to her first. I'm sorry, a young lady over here. I pointed to her first.

Speaker 2: 35:04

I'm sorry if she doesn't want to, though.

Speaker 4: 35:06

I mean you could do both keep her, do her, and then we'll do you. Yes, the reality show yeah best funeral ever. Is it a mockery or is it a way to celebrate? Oh, this one out of Dallas, this one out of Dallas.

Speaker 3: 35:23

No, now, my wife is from Dallas. Okay, my wife is from Dallas. She knows this funeral home in Dallas. Oh, did I just point you out like that? Did I just do that? I'm sorry, it's because I love you so much. So she is, she's from Dallas, and my brother-in-law knows the people at this funeral home. That's not something that they just made up for TV. This is something that they do. But this also goes to the heart of a culture that feels like it's gotten beyond the gospel.

Speaker 3: 35:56

A funeral, you know what? At a funeral, as a pastor, someone has died. There's a couple of things. Number one my job as a pastor is basically to shepherd people to the grave. That's my job. My job is to walk with people as they die, because we're all dying. And then, when people die, as a pastor, it's my opportunity to proclaim the gospel and to remind those who are living that this is the way that all of us are going to go, that death is the last enemy and it's to lift up Christ. I do not do services for the memory of the deceased. You want to do that. You do it at home, when we're finished.

Speaker 3: 36:34

The funeral is about the gospel, it's about Jesus. Okay, and we don't want that anymore. We want this thing to be the celebration of life. You know, we want everybody to have a mini version of what Mandela had, you know where. It's all about him and all about you know, whatever. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. If a nation wants to do that about a person, that's great, but when he comes to church, it's about the gospel, it's about Jesus, it's about death, the last enemy. It's about the most real thing that we'll ever face as Christians or non-Christians. That's what it's about, okay, and I think this show is really about how we've moved from that to the idea of funerals being the celebration of people, being the celebration of their life, and that's just not what a funeral ought to be.

Speaker 3: 37:26

And I've told my wife, I've told my fellow elders and anybody else who might be involved with my funeral my life is not worth celebrating. Don't do it, don't do it. Make much of Christ, I'm dead anyway, you know, yeah. So, again, I think this goes to the heart of we feel like the gospel's old news, you know. I mean, we feel like we need something more, we feel like we need something else, and so we've even taken death, which is the ultimate opportunity for us to cause men to face their own mortality and turn that into something that takes away the stain of our sin, and I think it's sad, you know. So anyway, all right, last one.

Speaker 4: 38:14

Okay cool. So I just wanted to ask, um, I think because you passionate about cultural apologetics um, but specifically in the, in the urban context, what? What do you think of christian hip-hop? And and my wife is not gonna let me, like, go home if I don't ask this question because she can't ask it. You can answer it after this. She just wanted to know why women are not allowed to preach in the church, and if a woman feels that she has the gift of preaching, why isn't she allowed to preach?

Speaker 3: 38:55

Thanks, Alright, 1 Timothy, chapter 2 and verse 12. I do not permit a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man. Rather, she is to remain quiet. So because the Bible says so, and that's it. The other thing is well, what if a person feels like they have gifts to do that no one gets to do everything they feel like they're gifted at, no one does? What if a man who has several wives feels like he's gifted to be a pastor? The Bible says he must be the husband of one wife, right? So just because you feel like you're gifted to do something, that doesn't give you the right to overthrow biblical qualifications.

Speaker 3: 39:51

The office of the elder. Paul says, you know, when he's talking about the elder, he must be the husband of one wife. He's talking about man. That office is exclusively for men. That's the office of the pastor, teacher. So if the office is exclusively for men and the Bible is very clear that women are not to teach or exercise authority over men, there's absolutely no room for women to be in that office or to exercise that authority in the church.

Speaker 3: 40:21

The other you talk about hip-hop, christian hip-hop. I'm not a fan of Christian hip-hop. I'm not a fan of hip-hop. Hip-hop is a culture that I believe is antithetical to the gospel. I grew up in South Central Los Angeles. I grew up with hip-hop. I don't mean I grew up with it playing in my home, I didn't. I mean I grew up where it grew up and I grew up when it grew up.

Speaker 3: 40:47

It comes out of gang culture. Okay, hip-hop has a music. It's mainly rap. Hip-hop has a graphic art. It's graffiti. Graffiti was tagging for gangs to tag their territory. Hip hop has a dance. It went from popping and locking to now animating and other things like that. Hip hop has a language. It's slang. It's the bastardization of language.

Speaker 3: 41:15

Hip hop has an ethos. That ethos is aggressive. That ethos is arrogant. That ethos, you know, shoots the middle finger at the culture. You know much of it is degrading. It's degrading to women. It's not only degrading to women, it's degrading to men. You walk around with your pants sagging and people looking at your underwear. You got a hat. You got to cock it all to the side Again. Why are we doing this? You know it's not the best that culture has to offer, and we ought to be about the highest and best that culture has to offer. And so if we want to evangelize to people in this inferior subculture, then we ought to, but we do not drag the church down to this inferior subculture. So that's my opinion. Others will differ and disagree, but I'm not a white guy who's going to be labeled as a racist, so I'll just say what I feel.

Speaker 3: 42:32

On that note you got a little rhyme you could end this with Got a favorite hymn Back in the day okay, back in the day I did, you know. But again, can there be a use of these things and can you minister to people in various areas and cultures? I mean, yeah, we ought to do that. Can it be helpful for this, that or the other? Yeah, it can be helpful for this, that or the other. Yeah, it can be helpful for this, that or the other. But I think it goes back to the question that we had earlier about, you know, church for niches. You know, and so we're going to have this.

Speaker 3: 43:14

I wouldn't want a hip-hop culture church any more than I would want an 80s soft rock culture church. You know, that's not where we go. We go to our highest and best and we go to common denominator. We connect ourselves to history, we connect ourselves to one another. We need things that do that, and this culture is not one that does that.

Speaker 3: 43:41

Yeah, and there's so many things about it that I think are just hugely problematic. There are things that it's good at, that it's better at, I think, the prophetic invictive, you know. I think that fits better in that genre than in other genres. But other than that, man, I'm just I'm worried about it and I'm especially worried when I see here, when I see that influence coming here, you know, because it's not the best that we have to offer, and it just saddens me when I go to different parts of the world and I see people embracing that which is less than the best that we have to offer, because there's a lot that we have to offer. In the US, god's been good to us and we've been blessed in abundance. That's not the best that we have to offer.

Speaker 2: 44:36

Someone's asked that you please lead us two more times in a repetition of that key statement why we believe the Bible.

Speaker 3: 44:44

Because it is a reliable collection of historical documents written by eyewitnesses during the lifetime of other eyewitnesses. They report supernatural events that took place in fulfillment of specific prophecies and claim that their writings are divine rather than human in origin. Okay, once more, it's a reliable collection of historical documents written by eyewitnesses during the lifetime of other eyewitnesses. They report supernatural events that took place in fulfillment of specific prophecies and claim that their writings are divine rather than human in origin.

Speaker 2: 45:28

Can we express our thanks to Vody for an incredible evening. Thank you very much.

Speaker 1: 45:38

Thank you for listening to Biblical Talks. Have a blessed day.