Let's conversate: Lukewarm No More

The apostle Joh begins by telling the church how it ought to live. He tells each church the special reward believers will receive for living holy lives that are pleasing to the Lord. Then he enters into an extensive description of the tribulation that fulfills many Old Testament prophecies, as well as Jesus’s Olivet discourse. This section also describes God’s dealing with Israel after the church has been raptured and the times of the Gentiles have end. This leads to Christ’s millennial kingdom on earth, followed by the judgment of unbelievers and the transition into the new heaven and new earth – the eternal state in which believers will be with the Lord forever. 

I want to look particular to the Church of Laodicea. But let say this first, these seven letters have a threefold interpretation and application:

1. Contemporary—they had a direct message to the local churches of John's day. I intend to take you to the location of these seven churches in these next two chapters. I have visited the sites of these churches several times, and I want to visit them again and again, because it is such a thrill and because it brings me closer to the Bible. You can get closer to the Bible by visiting these seven churches than you can by walking through the land of Israel. The ruins have an obvious message. John was writing to churches that he knew all about. In The Letters to the Seven Churches of Asia Sir William Ramsay said, “The man who wrote these seven letters to the seven churches had been there, and he knew the local conditions.”

2. Composite—each one is a composite picture of the church. There is something that is applicable to all churches in all ages in each message to each individual church. In other words, when you read the message to the church in Pergamum, there is a message for your church and a message for you personally.

3. Chronological—the panoramic history of the church is given in these seven letters, from Pentecost to the Parousia, from the Upper Room to the upper air. There are seven distinct periods of church history. Ephesus represents the apostolic church; Laodicea represents the apostate church. This prophetic picture is largely fulfilled and is now church history, which makes these chapters extremely remarkable.

Chapters

• 0:00 Purpose And Mission Of The Show
• 3:59 Why Revelation Still Speaks Now
• 6:39 The Laodicea Profile And Problem
• 9:31 Lukewarmness Explained With Local Water
• 12:24 Modern Signs Of A Lukewarm Church
• 15:24 Wealth, Pride, And Spiritual Blindness
• 18:24 Christ’s Loving Rebuke And Remedy
• 19:58 Book Offer And Donation Details
• 21:19 Knock, Open, And Share His Throne

Transcript

SPEAKER_03: 1:02

Welcome to Biblical Talks. Let's conversate.

SPEAKER_01: 1:07

I'm Michael Tolliver.

SPEAKER_03: 1:08

And I'm Rachel Tolliver. Together, we're not just your hosts, we're your companions in discovery, your guides through sacred truth, and fellow pilgrims walking with you through the pages of Scripture and the difficulties of life. This is a journey of faith and formation, and we're honored to walk it with you.

SPEAKER_01: 1:29

Let's Conversate is part of Biblical Talk Podcast. Let's Conversate is not just a podcast, it's a pulpit, a platform where scripture meets the streets. Our mission to bring biblical truth to bear on the burning issues of our time. We don't just talk about the Bible, we walk through the Bible, letting its wisdom shape how we see, how we speak, and how we stand in today's world.

SPEAKER_03: 1:54

We believe conversation is holy ground. When we open the word and open our mouths, we invite the Spirit to bridge the ancient and the now, connecting sacred texts to social context.

SPEAKER_01: 2:08

So, what's the purpose of let's conversate? To teach with clarity, to encourage with conviction, to challenge with courage, and to inspire with fire.

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So that every listener might grow deeper in their walk with God and live bolder in obedience to his will.

SPEAKER_01: 2:25

Now hear this absolute truth is not found in opinion posts or trend hashtag. It's not up for debate or review. Truth comes by revelation, and that revelation is found in one place, the word of God.

SPEAKER_03: 2:40

The Bible is not just a source of truth, it is the source. Every word, every line, every promise is guaranteed by the God who cannot lie.

SPEAKER_01: 2:51

So as we conversate, may the Holy Ghost illuminate our minds, stir our hearts, and strengthen our hands, so we don't just hear the word, but we do the word.

SPEAKER_03: 3:02

Let's conversate.

SPEAKER_04: 3:37

Well, almost more dangerous than being openly in a tough spot. Or maybe you've felt that pull towards the comfortable middle ground on something important, either fully for it nor totally against it. Seems safe, right? If any of that rings a bell, then get ready. Because today we're diving deep into a surprisingly intense and really profoundly challenging message from Scripture. We're going to unpack why being what the Bible calls lukewarm isn't just some minor issue, but something that actually drew one of the strongest rebukes you can find. Our mission today, let's try to cut through the noise. Let's extract the core insights about what lukewarmness truly means, why it's described as such a perilous spiritual state, and crucially what the call to real zeal actually looks like. We're drawing our insights straight from the book of Revelation, specifically focusing on one church that got this, well, pretty unsparing message.

SPEAKER_02: 4:25

Yeah, that's a fantastic focus for this deep dive. Revelation itself is just an extraordinary book. Fundamentally, its purpose is to reveal things to come. It details events, you know, before, during, and after Jesus Christ's return. And its goals are really quite practical. First, to encourage believers, people like you, to live righteously with integrity, especially knowing what's prophesied. And second, it's a powerful warning to those who don't yet believe, warning them about the judgment that awaits if they reject Christ. The Apostle John, who wrote it down, he lays out a clear path for how the church should live. He even promises specific rewards for pursuing holy lives. And big picture, it also sketches out this broader prophetic timeline, things like the tribulation period, God's specific future dealings with Israel, this thousand-year reign of Christ called the Millennial Kingdom, and then finally the eternal state.

SPEAKER_04: 5:14

And what's really amazing about these letters, the ones to the seven churches, right? Start of Revelation, is how they work on multiple levels. Like a spiritual time capsule. They give us a direct look into John the world, sure, but they also act as a mirror for any church in any time. And maybe even a prophetic roadmap of church history. These aren't just dusty old letters. They have a living message for you right now. First, they were definitely contemporary, direct messages to real local churches in John's day. Scholars, like Sir William Ramsey, confirmed John knew their local situations inside out. Second, they're composite, meaning they hold a timeless message for all churches, always. So when you read about, say, Ephesus or Smyrna, there's something there for your church community, maybe even for you personally. And third, there's this chronological view. Some see it as a panoramic history of the church, starting from Pentecost right through to the Pruzua, that's the term for Christ's return. In this view, each church represents a different era. Ephesus is like the early apostolic church, and Laodicea, our focus today, while it's often seen as representing the end times, the apostate church, a church that's drifted.

SPEAKER_02: 6:16

It really is remarkable how consistent Christ is in these letters. The structure highlights his intention. Each one starts by emphasizing a particular aspect of the glorified Christ, something John saw in that opening vision in chapter one, and it's always tailored specifically to that church's situation. They're addressed to the angel of the church, which most understand to mean the pastor or the key messenger there. Then comes that really profound personal statement, I know thy works every single time. Usually Christ follows that with some commendations, some praise, and then condemnation, a rebuke. But there are exceptions, like Smyrna and Philadelphia, they got no condemnation at all. Zero. But Laoditia, this is striking. Laodicea received no commendation, none whatsoever, just the rebuke. And every letter finishes with that solemn warning He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says. It drives home that these aren't just historical notes. They are direct personal letters from Christ Himself. For them, yes, but also for us.

SPEAKER_04: 7:09

Okay, let's really dig into Laodicea then, because this city, its story, it's such a powerful lesson in the danger of just being Well, fine. Historically, it was known as being rich in garments but poor in glory. A place with uh commerce in their hands, but blindness in their eyes. So outwardly impressive, materially wealthy, but underneath a deep hidden spiritual problem. They thought they had it all figured out, but they were profoundly wrong.

SPEAKER_02: 7:36

Yes, exactly. And understanding their specific historical context really unlocks the depth of their spiritual condition. Laodetia was famous for a particular product, a healing salve. It was this clay-based ointment made from mineral-rich mud or powder, likely sourced from nearby Hierapolis with its hot springs. It was marketed widely, became a huge source of wealth for the region. People knew about Laodician I salve. But here's the kicker. Modern analysis, looking at the chemical composition, suggests the salve was, well, largely ineffective. Medically speaking, it probably didn't do much. It was essentially a clever bit of marketing wrapped around a pretty useless remedy. A hustle, really.

SPEAKER_04: 8:12

Wow. And it's so easy to just look back and think, oh, those ancient people. But maybe that struggle with false remedies hits closer to home than we like to admit. I mean, in our own civilized age, don't we have our own versions of potions and pills? Things marketed with such flair, sold with persuasive promises, swallowed with hope. Yet let's be honest, many of them don't heal a thing. Whether it's physical stuff, philosophical ideas, even some spiritual quick fixes, we're still buying, sometimes blinded by the hype, just like they were.

SPEAKER_02: 8:44

That's a very sharp connection. But Christ, he didn't just diagnose the problem and walk away. He didn't leave them hanging. He offered the real solution. He told them point blank, buy for me the real ISAV. This wasn't about some imitation ointment. This was the anointed answer. The kind of spiritual remedy that genuinely opens up the soul, restores true vision, and renews purpose. It's about seeing reality as God sees it.

SPEAKER_04: 9:07

Okay, and this leads us right into that really direct confrontation in Revelation 3, verses 15 and 16. This is where Jesus' language gets, frankly, visceral, startling. He says, I know your works. You're neither cold nor hot. Would that you were either cold or hot. So because you are lukewarm and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth.

unknown: 9:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 9:25

That immediate, almost violent rejection is shocking, isn't it? Why? Such incredibly strong language there.

SPEAKER_02: 9:31

It's a great question. And again, the local context would have hit the Laodations right between the eyes. It made his point undeniable. See, they had a famous chronic problem with their water supply. It was piped in via aqueducts from distant sources. Some sources were cold springs high up, others were hot thermal springs, like those at Hierapolis nearby. But by the time the water traveled all that way and reached Laodasia, it was consistently, notoriously lukewarm and often impure, mineral-laden. It apparently had an emetic effect. It literally made people feel sick, made them want to vomit. Christ took that everyday, unpleasant reality they all knew and used it as a perfect illustration of their spiritual state. He was essentially saying, Your spiritual temperature, it makes me physically sick. It has that same nauseating effect on me. So let's just clarify what he means by cold, hot, and lukewarm in this spiritual sense. A cold church in this context seems to be one that has maybe abandoned foundational truth, perhaps is even actively hostile to the gospel message. You might see parallels in some movements today that openly reject core biblical teachings. A hot church, on the other hand, is burning with spiritual fervor. It's ignited by the Holy Spirit, displaying, as one source put it, a high pitch of intimacy and passion for Christ, full of life, zeal, ladish. They were neither. They were stuck sitting between zeal and rebellion, trying to, you know, bounce in the middle, playing on both sides, not committed either way. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_04: 10:52

So connecting that to today, but what does that lukewarm posture look like? Where might we see it? Well, sometimes it's pretty visible, isn't it? Maybe in institutions that start introducing doctrines contradicting core beliefs or um turning a blind eye to exploitation or things that promote division or compromising on clear biblical standards about morality or truth, especially when you see major denominations trying to, as you said, satisfy both camps, the traditional believers and the cultural or progressive voices, instead of taking a clear, bold stand based on scripture, that seems like an inherently unstable, unsustainable position. And as the text says, it ultimately makes the Lord sick.

SPEAKER_02: 11:27

Exactly. And when Christ says that phrase, I know your works, to Laodicea, unlike other churches where it often came before praise. Here it lands like an indictment, a charge sheet. Their works, their religious activities were effectively empty, evil, and estranged from the spirit. There was no heart in it, no genuine connection to God, so it's pure confrontation, not affirmation. The same all-seeing eyes that recognized the purity and first love in Ephesus saw straight through to the lukewarm soul of Laotia and found absolutely nothing commendable. And what's the root cause? Why were they like this? The text points to something profound. The root of lukewarmness is self-satisfaction. Laodicea's declaration was essentially, I am rich, I have prospered, I need nothing. They felt completely self-sufficient. But Christ's assessment, his reality check, was utterly devastating. You don't realize that you are wretched, pitiable, poor, blind, and naked. They genuinely believe they had everything they needed, spiritually included, but in God's eyes, they possessed absolutely nothing of true eternal value.

SPEAKER_04: 12:25

Wow. So what does that tell us? I mean, that's spiritual deception at its absolute worst, isn't it? A group of people, maybe even non-believers, calling themselves a church, who literally cannot discern truth from trash. They've lost the ability. And maybe the reason is, as one source put it, you can't diagnose the soul when you've never submitted to the savior. You need spiritual life to have spiritual sight.

SPEAKER_02: 12:46

That's right. Laoditia's historical wealth, their famous banking center, their thriving trade and textiles. That ISAL, if we mention it, created this illusion of success. But it stood in stark contrast to their profound spiritual bankruptcy. There might also have been an influence from what some call a Gnostic spirit, this idea that they possessed some kind of special knowledge, that they were spiritually elevated above ordinary believers. But really, it was just pride dressed up in doctrine, intellectual arrogance, maybe, but with no drop of Holy Ghost fire, no genuine passion or power from God.

SPEAKER_04: 13:21

That really does sound like the worst spiritual state imaginable, to be smug in your sickness, arrogant in your apostasy, just completely self-diluted. And you can almost feel like it's Laodicea all over again when you see institutions or even individuals today who boast about their doctrinal knowledge or their resources, but preach a gospel that feels diluted, compromised, lacking that zealous fire.

SPEAKER_02: 13:42

Which leads directly to the second core reason we identified. Earthly wealth can hide eternal poverty. It can blind us. Think about it. Laodicea's mighty city, its banks, its commerce, it's all just ruins now, dust and stones. It's a stark reminder. You can have a walk-in closet and a walkout faith. Your possessions, your status, they don't secure your soul. Our earthly stuff just cannot buy spiritual vitality. As one commentator bluntly put it, hell is hot even if your bank account ain't. Material comfort can easily breed spiritual complacency if we're not vigilant.

SPEAKER_04: 14:13

Yeah, and this is where that powerful analogy comes in the one about the sinking cruise ship and the lifeboat. It illustrates belief so well. Believing in the Bible, believing in Jesus, it ain't just not in your head at information. It's not just intellectual agreement. It's about entrusting your soul to the truth you claim to know. You can stand on the deck of that sinking ship, you can quote scripture about the lifeboat, you can admire its construction, call it beautiful names. But as the saying goes, belief without boarding is just bragging. Real faith isn't just what you say. Faith is where you stand. It demands action. It requires getting in the boat, submitting to the Savior.

SPEAKER_02: 14:49

Beautifully put. But here's the amazing turn. Christ doesn't just condemn and walk away. Not even from Laodicea, he extends this urgent, loving invitation. The cure is Christ, himself. Even to this self-satisfied, frankly, apostate church, what does he do? He comes close, he stands at the door, knocks. And notice how he introduces himself to them. The Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of God's creation. This isn't just a title, it's his very identity, his credentials. He is the Amen, the firm, fixed, certain, unchangeable confirmation of all God's promises. The so be it. In a world swirling with confusion where lies are louder than truth, he is the bedrock reality. He never changes his story, never waters down his glory, and never fails to speak the truth, even when it's hard, but always in love. He is the ultimate reliable witness.

SPEAKER_04: 15:38

And that's exactly what a lukewarm heart needs, isn't it? It's not going to be guilt trip back to health. It needs something more powerful. It needs to be revived by glory, reignited by revelation. We need to see him again, really see his worth, his wonder, his power, his faithfulness. That's what melts indifference.

SPEAKER_02: 15:52

Absolutely. And in his mercy, he gives them and us very specific threefold counsel to overcome that spiritual poverty they were blind to. First, buy for me gold refined by fire so that you may be rich. This isn't earthly gold. It represents the incredible riches of genuine, tested, purified faith, a far more valuable. Second, buy white garments so that you may clothe yourself and the shame of your nakedness may not be seen. This points to God's imputed righteousness, the perfect purity of Christ Himself covering our sin and shame. Brilliant, radiant. And third, buy, Sable to anoint your eyes so that you may see. This is the spiritual healing we talked about, the cure for their blindness, restoring true vision, insight, illumination from the Holy Spirit. It's really a beautiful threefold picture of salvation being offered here. Grace extended even to hypocrites, and the amazing part. The price is already paid by Christ's sacrifice. It's an invitation to receive these gifts freely.

SPEAKER_04: 16:44

And underpinning all of this, even the sharp rebuke, is this incredible motive, rebuke from love. He says plainly, those whom I love, I reprove in discipline. This isn't the cold anger of a distant judge. This discipline flows from divine affection. It's a heartfelt longing for reconciliation. That's why he urges them, therefore, be zealous and repent. It's a call to a complete turnaround, a wholehearted turning, with the great preacher, David Martin Lloyd Jones, called a passionate return, not just feeling sorry, but energetically, zealously turning back to him.

SPEAKER_02: 17:17

And that leads perfectly into the climax, the final invitation in Revelation 3, verse 20. It's perhaps one of the most famous verses in the Bible. Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come into him and eat with him, and he with me. Just picture it. Offering intimate fellowship, eat with him, signifies deep communion. It's profoundly compassionate. He doesn't force his way in. He waits for you to open the door.

SPEAKER_04: 17:47

It's incredible grace. And if you do open that door, if you choose to conquer this state of lukewarmness by turning back to him in faith, the promise he makes is just staggering. Revelation 3.2, 122. The one who conquers, I will grant him to sit with me on my throne as I myself conquered and sat down with my father on his throne. And who conquers, and the New Testament clarifies elsewhere, only the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God, believes and acts on that belief. This isn't just a participation trophy. This is the highest possible honor, the greatest elevation a human soul could ever receive. Sharing Christ's throne, sharing his victory, his authority, his glory. It's a mind-blowing call away from apathy and toward zealous devotion. So as we wrap up, if you're listening right now, maybe you feel a bit tired spiritually, indifferent, maybe just cool for you to be warm. Please know you're not alone in that feeling. But the answer isn't trying to drum up some artificial hype or beat yourself up with shame. That doesn't work long term.

SPEAKER_02: 18:42

No, the solution offered here is actually remarkably simple yet profound. It's just this. Open the door, just look again at Jesus. Take a fresh look. See his tenderness, yes, but also his glory, his power, and his unwavering gracious invitation to you right now. The message, even to those who feel spiritually complacent, maybe even skeptical or self-deceived, is crystal clear. Repent, turn back, and I will come in. He's still mocking. The offer still stands.

SPEAKER_04: 19:11

And that promise, it echoes down through the centuries right to this moment. To the one who overcomes, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne. That's not just a comfy seat. It's a powerful, life-altering call to rise again from indifference, from just being fine. Even the most lukewarm hearts can be set ablaze by his presence. The final question then is the one that echoes at the end of every letter. Are you listening? Are you hearing what the Spirit says to the churches? And maybe, just maybe, what he's saying directly to you today.

SPEAKER_00: 19:40

Hello, my name is Michelle Tolliver, and Biblical Talks Book Offer for the month of January is obedience to Christ, striving for the greatest wisdom of all by A. W. Tozer. Sin is never something to be proud of. Wise actions always consider the consequences, but sins ignore them. True wisdom comes from trusting in God and finding shelter in his strength. Obedience, though often aborted, is at the heart of living as a Christian. Salvation and obedience, Savior and Lord, go hand in hand. Accepting Christ as Savior means surrendering to him completely, no matter the outcome. While the world might be this as foolish, Tozer sees it as the greatest. If eternity lies ahead and our short lives on earth shape our lives in the hereafter, what danger do we face if we strive so hard for earthly rewards or vanish when Christ returns? Through obedience to Christ, Hoser inspires us to regain the hope of heaven. For any amount of donation to Biblical Talks, we will send you the book. Please go to Biblicaltalks.com and click the Donate Here tab. Thank you for listening to Biblical Talks.