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Real Life Investing With Jason & Rachel Wagner
“Real Life Investing” with Jason and Rachel Wagner is a multifaceted podcast that blends insights from real estate, entrepreneurship, family life, and political discussions. Known for their candid and engaging style, the Wagner’s explore how their conservative values shape their approach to both business and life. They often discuss their personal journeys in real estate, offering practical tips on topics like how to buy a house or investment property while navigating a challenging housing market.
In addition to real estate, the show frequently delves into entrepreneurial lessons, highlighting the importance of mindset, perseverance, and staying focused on long-term goals. They are open about the challenges they’ve faced and provide valuable advice for anyone looking to head into entrepreneurship or seek the best version of themselves.
Dinner table conversations are central to the podcast. The Wagner’s discuss their experiences balancing various topics that families face, while often featuring guests who share similar journeys. Political conversations are explored from a conservative perspective, particularly when they touch on how these beliefs influence their business decisions and personal growth.
With a blend of relatable stories and expert advice, “Real Life Investing” is a show that appeals to a wide audience, from aspiring entrepreneurs and real estate investors, to those seeking inspiration in their personal lives.
Real Life Investing With Jason & Rachel Wagner
45. Leslee Dirnberger on Homeschooling, Parental Empowerment, & The Indoctrinating Education System
What if you could take control of your child's education and transform it into a meaningful, personalized experience? Join us as we sit down with Leslee Dirnberger, a former litigator turned passionate homeschooling advocate, to explore how you can reclaim your children's education. From her unique upbringing on Capitol Hill to her insightful critique of the No Child Left Behind Act, Leslee shares her journey and addresses common misconceptions about homeschooling. Discover the pivotal moments that spurred her transition to homeschooling and how her family successfully navigated this life-changing decision.
Are you frustrated with the current state of public education, especially after the disruptions of COVID-19? We dive deep into the historical and legislative influences that have shaped today's educational landscape. We share personal anecdotes about challenging the outdated and compliance-driven nature of the current system and explore the growing need for parental involvement in schools. Leslee discusses the importance of fostering critical thinking over rote compliance and how parents can take an active role in their children's education.
Balancing homeschooling with career responsibilities is daunting, but Leslee offers practical advice and creative solutions for families in various situations, including dual-income and single-parent households. We examine the flexibility of homeschooling schedules, the benefits of personalized learning plans, and the myriad opportunities for homeschooled children to participate in athletics and extracurricular activities. By the end of our conversation, you'll be equipped with the knowledge and inspiration to seriously consider homeschooling as a viable and enriching option for your family's educational journey.
Leslee Dirnberger's Linkedin
Aspire Education Website
Schedule a Call with Leslee
Send Leslee an Email at hello@aspireeducation.us
List of Leslee's Recommended Books on Amazon:
Crimes of the Educators - Samuel Blumenfeld, Alex Newman
The Deliberate Dumbing Down of America - Charlotte Thompson Iserbyt
America: The Last Best Hope - William J. Bennett
Inside American Education - Thomas Sowell
The Underground History of American Education - John Taylor Gatto
Why Are You Still Sending Your Kids to School? - Blake Boles
The Brave Learner - Julie Bogart
The Call of the Wild and Free - Ainsley Arment
Smart but Scattered - Peg Dawson, Richard Guare
Welcome back to another episode of the Real Life Investing Podcast with Jason and Rachel Wagner. Today I'm very excited to introduce to you all a guest, Leslie Dermberger. Leslie and I met a few months ago at another speaking event that she had. It was kind of a intro to homeschooling and kind of everything you need to know about it, and it was something I had kind of been paying attention to a little bit, trying to get to understand. You know, the truth behind the myths, I think, because it was never something that I thought I would consider and the more I was learning, I'm kind of like well, this is really interesting and it does interest me and perhaps it's a good fit for my family. And, Leslie, you just captivated me with your speaking that day. I learned so much in just an hour and a half and afterwards I'm like, hey, you have a wealth of knowledge, an incredible background, and I think it would be really useful for some of our friends and family who listen and other listeners to learn from as well. So, Leslie, welcome to the show.
Speaker 2:Thank you. I am so happy to be here, especially to talk to any parents. My heart is very much to strengthen and empower families by helping parents reclaim their child's education and empower you guys to really make the best choice for your kids. So I'm really excited to be here. Yeah, thank you for having me.
Speaker 1:And you've got a pretty fascinating background too, because you grew up in Washington DC, on Capitol Hill. You're formerly a litigator, but you left your career to homeschool your four kids. Is that right?
Speaker 2:I did. Yes, and that's correct. I have four young adults now and yes, I, when I say I grew up on Capitol Hill, I like to share that I truly did. I think my parents were natural kind of homeschoolers in their way. They would pull me out of school to go to Senate hearings because I adored.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm a total nerd, let me just say that upfront. I apologize to all the listeners, but yeah, I just I truly loved it. So I definitely grew up not just around government but really getting integrally a back scene behind the scenes. Look at it, I guess I'm trying to say two different things at the same time, but anyway, it really helped inform me later on and I stayed interning and working up there all through law school and have written legislation all the way federal down to local ordinances here when I was practicing and that background has really helped me to kind of understand the bigger picture of what's going on. And my kids were in public school for a couple of years and I was one of the very active parent. I went to all the board meetings before.
Speaker 2:It was cool to go to board meetings, you know because of my, like I said, I'm a nerd, you know, and I wanted to know what was happening and what was going on and unfortunately it just really sunk into me because of my background I was noticing all the decisions being made were to separate parents from kids, like literally in front of me, regarding kids that I would work with, because I was in the classroom two, three times a week and it really didn't sit too well with me. And then no Child Left Behind came out and I read it cover to cover. Remember the nerd part?
Speaker 3:Yeah, great.
Speaker 2:Read it cover to cover and was appalled. And I saw that that legislation again was designed to marginalize gifted and even kids who were struggling, but it really in a different way, right. And so to me again, it was just a way to homogenize and to not meet children's needs where they are. And so people ask me all the time oh, do you always want to homeschool? I said, oh, no, no, no, remember that lawyer part. I don't grow my own food, make my own clothes, right, we all have this impression and image of homeschoolers and I never imagined. And I will say the first time that thought went into my brain was when I was reading the National Education Association's policies because I'd been asked to go to their summer parent retreat. So keep that in mind, because they want all the parents of the PTAs and they want them to bring back this message and they hold this whole very indoctrinating.
Speaker 2:So anyway, I read, if I'm going to go to this, I thought, okay, I need to read their policies. Like I need some more background. I hadn't really ever dug in and right there in their policies and keep in mind this is over 20 years ago Okay, and right there in their policies was homeschooling should be abolished. It is a detriment to children. That was it One line, and I went whoa, personal freedoms, parental choice, all of those things right, and so that was my first huh. All right, let me dig into this homeschooling thing more. Why would they say something like that, right, does that make sense? So anyway, I know I'm just kind of sharing probably more than you were asking, with background, but that journey and my background, I think, helped me to kind of have that first impetus to look into it. And you guys were talking about oh, we're in different places as we're thinking about it.
Speaker 2:Well, you could better believe my husband and I are in different places. Also. It was definitely my start of deep dive. And then, when I was walking around the library locally here, I wrote a parent education article for a newsletter every month, and so I was looking at books in the parent education section. I looked down and there's a book on the bottom shelf which is no longer in print. I've been trying to get it. It said what public school parents can learn from homeschoolers, like. Literally within the next day or two of me reading that, I was like all right, what can I learn? I'm reading this book. My husband still has a bruise on his left arm because I was constantly like you got to hear this.
Speaker 2:You got to hear this, we're already doing this. This is what we do, you know.
Speaker 1:So anyway that.
Speaker 2:That's my background and journey to you know my decision to homeschool and I was scared to death. I'll be perfectly honest yeah, scared to death.
Speaker 3:Would you say that that is the thing that drives people towards homeschooling, or at least exploring it right now. Is that it's not necessarily maybe something they grew up with, but they they see it in their environment, or they see it from coming from government standards, or just they're unhappy with the current status of the public school system. Is that kind of what you see as like the driving force for parents?
Speaker 2:coming into it now. Yes, what I've seen is a tremendous shift because of COVID, a tremendous shift and I think that the majority of that shift has come from parents witnessing truly what goes on somewhat in the classroom with respect to their children and their education. I can't tell you the number of parents in every socioeconomic level, every race, every religion or non-religion, every race, every religion or non-religion. I hear from parents that that really opened their eyes that their children were not learning. And it comes in a variety of ways, right, because everybody's individual.
Speaker 2:So sometimes it's parents are noticing okay, my child is sitting for eight hours a day. This is just not good. And even in school it's very short breaks, right, they're just sitting doing too much, and what are they actually doing? And then other parents will come to me and say, okay, no wonder my child, you know, either acts out or whatever. They're bored out of their mind. This level, my child, is so far beyond this level. That happens quite a lot with people who actually come to me and I work with independent, you know, one-on-one.
Speaker 2:But I do think that as a society, right, like you mentioned, we're seeing also a lot of our friends and neighbors who are homeschooling, and so it's starting to look a little different. It's. We went from public education or private what I call traditional schooling is the only way to educate a child to a much higher willingness to explore this idea that children can actually be educated well in a different way and outside of that construct of a government school Right. So if that makes sense but that's what I'm seeing both at conventions- and talking to just you know thousands of different homeschoolers.
Speaker 2:I will say, statistics like that I take with a big grain of salt, because I tend to think that might even be higher. And here's why Because they're very those polls. You just have to look at where the and I'm not saying that there's an agenda behind it, but you have to look at, okay, what states are they polling, for example? Because there are so many have a very different outlook. If you're going to a state like California or New York, where it's heavily regulated, you might have people saying, oh no, absolutely not. Then if you're in a state like Illinois, which has no oversight by the government which, by the way, is a very good thing- and wild coming from a state like Illinois, yeah, that's actually very surprising.
Speaker 2:Wild, and we can talk more details about that but.
Speaker 2:Illinois not only doesn't have governmental oversight, our Supreme Court has said if you homeschool, you're actually considered a private school and that adds a whole nother layer. And, like I said, we can talk about that more if you want to. But the point being, it could even be higher because, depending on what state you're in and how much people are going to speak up and how much people are going to say, it makes a big difference because people still are a little trepidatious. So, like if you ask somebody, hey, are you considering homeschool? Oh, no, no, no, no. But so that's all I'm getting at but it definitely rings true that it's a huge number.
Speaker 2:It's absolutely true. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:Well, I mean, it seems to be becoming a lot more common and just with all the news that we see lately on what's going on with school, and it just seems so odd to me I think you said COVID really caused a lot of this unveiling to kind of see that there's stuff going on behind the curtain here that we haven't really understood. And then when you see some of the broadcasted PTO meetings of all these people that were going and kind of you know, just upset with the books that were in their libraries, and then you saw all of these parents that were quoting the passages that were in these books.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 3:And there was like scuffles that were occurring. The passages that were in these books, yes, and there was like scuffles that were occurring at these PTO meetings. Yeah, you know, and like, how did we ever get to that point? Yes, and to really not be aware. How long has that been there?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and if, digging deeper in, well, when you say how long has that been there, the process and I'm going to use the word indoctrination, because it is literally that and the propaganda within education goes back to, I would say, the late 1800s and it's been very intentional, so we can talk about that that's. I just did a talk on globalism and education last Saturday and so it's a topic I definitely want to dig into, because I think I was not educated on the history of our education system at all and actually it was something I started to look into more the summer. We decided to homeschool and so since then there's just amazing resources and to talk about that. But fast forward to what you're saying, jason.
Speaker 2:It definitely matters to parents that they've kind of seen behind the curtain as we were talking about and saw the quality and what's going on, and that it doesn't align with the family's values and the family's morals and what the family wants. Massive shift from families being the base and the core of our country. Individual rights come first, then the family, then the community, then the state, then the federal, and we've flipped that on its head and it's been very intentional in a variety of arenas, and education being one of the primary ones, and so what's happened is you're seeing kind of the culmination, I think you know, like parents being branded terrorists for attending school board meetings Insanity, yes, it is insanity.
Speaker 1:Having the FBI knock on your door because you attended a parent meeting is insanity Exactly.
Speaker 2:Exactly. That's why I say too oh yeah, I was one of those people that went and before I would be labeled a terrorist, because that's ridiculous, and that's what I meant too by what I saw about separating parents from kids. And so what's happened is there's been a very intentional shift in the language that's being used. I'm a big believer in the words that have been specifically chosen and what's been put out there in terms of parents not being the experts. So that was a very intentional thing done by John Dewey later, but by the core people back in the late 1800s JP Morgan Ford, back in the late 1800s, you know JP Morgan Ford, rothschilds and Rockefellers, and they all got together.
Speaker 2:This was a very intentional thing and had an education committee, and what you're seeing now has been kind of that culmination, right. So they teamed up with experts and all of a sudden they labeled them, they picked them and just said they're an expert in education, they're an expert in psychology and child development. All of that is driven, was driven, and the person who was chosen, bought in, you know, toed the line, said what they wanted to say. So all of a sudden, over this period of time, parents are no longer the experts in their own children. The experts are at school and so when you take a look at the process so I mentioned no Child Left Behind, for example. Okay, so again, all this legislation and the process has been very intentional and, for example, when my children went in to local elementary school here, supposedly great, you know how you do your research, right, where are you going to live?
Speaker 1:Make sure the schools are good, all that right.
Speaker 2:Do the same thing and I'm in there and I'm looking at the information that my son is getting in math. We were told oh joy, we have been chosen as a school to try new math. Want to know what that became? I bet you can guess what did new math become? Oh, and, by the way, it was from the University of Chicago lab schools. That is what my son and daughter were introduced to, and I looked at it and I went to their teachers and said this is garbage and I want my child to be learning regular math. Thank goodness my son's first grade teacher went. Oh, I agree 100% and we're not using it Exactly.
Speaker 2:My son had a great first grade teacher.
Speaker 2:As a matter of fact, she's a big part of my story in that she had parent night right, we're all there and she informed the parents. You know she'd been in the school a long time, had a great reputation and I loved her presenting everything she said. And then she said and parents are not welcome in my classroom, and that's not because I don't love you and that's not because I know you don't love your kids, it's that because it's too disruptive. And my husband was very proud of me because I kept my mouth shut at the time and afterwards I went up to her and I said well, actually that's not going to work for me. I don't want to, you know, intrude on your class and I'll try to be very careful of that and I'll look in the window first, but I will come and see my son anytime I choose. And she looked at me and she talked to her and she goes would you like to be my room mom? And I said will that make it easier when I show up all the time?
Speaker 1:for you and she goes it absolutely will.
Speaker 2:And I said then great, I'm your room mom. And another mom happened to do the same thing. The reason I share that is I got to know her and after school one day she said hey, do you have a few minutes? Can I talk to you? I'm like, yeah, sure.
Speaker 2:I sat down and she pushed a piece of paper across to me and and at the top, in bold letters, it said you will vote for because the school board elections were coming up, and it listed all the union, liberal, whatever you want to say members who I absolutely was not supporting. And I said where did you get this? She goes the teacher's union. And I went oh how interesting. And I said so what happens if you don't vote for them? And she goes you don't want to see what happens. And I said well, it's supposed to be private. And she goes oh, no, no, no. She says if you don't follow this, she goes, you will be out, you will be, especially in the better school districts.
Speaker 2:Again, hadn't even thought about homeschooling at this point, but it was all these little pieces that you see. And so what's happened is we've been taken over by the experts, right? And so you have no child left behind. And in between that and Common Core, you have new math being tested out and introduced into the schools. And, lo and behold, common Core comes out. And do you know? Common Core was not designed to improve education. Bill Gates himself, by the way, bill Gates invested let me see if I remember the exact amount like $6 million, I believe into Common Core and he said we don't know if it's going to work or not. Probably be 10 years until we know, like we have no idea.
Speaker 2:So you look at Common Core. What went away? First of all, when your child comes home and asks you for math help, mom and dad, were you able to help them? No, so when mom or dad goes to their child and says, hey, dad, can you help me with this? And you go, hey, there's a different way to do this and get the right answer. And your child goes I can't, it'll be wrong. And you say, well, wait a second. You get the right answer, but you do it a different way. It's wrong. Yep, so dad goes well, logically, goes. Well. Then you're going to have to ask your teacher. You know why? Because there's no book that came home with it so that you can learn how to do it. It's all online, it's all on their iPad, it's all on their Google Chrome and there's no instruction in there. It's just their worksheets and their homework, and that went all the way up to high school.
Speaker 1:And that kind of sends a subtle message to the child too. Go ahead and finish you hit it right on the head that you don't go to your parents for help with schoolwork. Your teacher knows best. Your teacher has all the answers.
Speaker 2:Correct, because it's that transfer of authority which is very natural for a child, because who do they love and trust the most? Their parents, in their mind. The only people that can help me the experts are my teachers is the school. And then now go to the school. The school is saying, nope, can't tell your parents that you, your parents wouldn't understand, your parents wouldn't understand. Oh, and, by the way, the laws are following. You don't have to, we don't have to share with the parents. If the child wants to consider becoming a different gender, parents don't need to be informed of that. That's the child. Do you hear the words I'm saying? I mean, it blows my mind so much I can't even stand it. But yet we say a child can't smoke or drink or whatever. But we're saying, oh, but a child can decide to mutilate their body and destroy their future because they're going through normal hormonal questioning and life discussions and the parents aren't allowed to be a part of that discussion.
Speaker 1:Sorry, so I close my mind.
Speaker 3:So this is why I printed this, because I printed an article that was published yesterday.
Speaker 2:OK.
Speaker 3:This is from the Los Angeles Times and it says Gavin Newsom signs bill banning schools from notifying parents about student gender identity. So this just happened yesterday, July.
Speaker 3:Oh excuse me when this was written as July 15th actually, but correct. A lot of the, a lot of the scrutiny really came down. Yesterday I saw Elon Musk said that he is now getting his companies all out of California because Gavin Newsom's bill here really, really jeopardizes the kids. And, to your point, what you just said, it is removing the parent from being even involved in any of these decisions.
Speaker 2:That's right.
Speaker 1:And parents.
Speaker 3:do parents want that? Is that no? Any logical parent probably no way in hell wants that.
Speaker 2:Exactly. But you hit the key word right there Logical, logical. And really what we're discussing here has been a systematic process of indoctrination and feel. They don't use logic. What do they use? They use guilt, they use fear, they use your neighbors and your community, if you think about it. They don't use facts. They don't. They can't, you can't dispute the facts. Common core has dropped us significantly down in the international, in the world, rankings of how well our children are doing.
Speaker 2:Are you familiar with wire points? Ted Dabrowski is president, he he amazing, and WirePoints is a great resource for anybody here in Illinois, by the way, and they focus on the data. Okay, wirepoints has laid out the education statistics in this state. It is abysmal, and we're not talking about just low, poor communities. We're talking about right here in Barrington, okay, and higher income areas where the schools are amazing and there's all this money being poured in. It has nothing to do with money. Nothing to do with money. It has everything to do with the fact that the parents have been taken out and that the morals and values that parents want reinforced with their children are not happening right, that parents want reinforced with their children are not happening right, and it's being substituted with governmental focus and morals and values, and what happens is just this. You're seeing this end of starting to come, all the ramifications of that, because I went to public school, you guys went to public school right, so I hear this all the time Well.
Speaker 2:I went to Hersey and I did fine, it was great, and my mom taught there or my grandma taught there and it's fine, it's a great school. Yeah, exactly. Oh, no times change. And I get that because with my own four children, one of our kids had come to us and said I want to go to public children. One of our kids had come to us and said I want to go to public, I want to go to friend, and we went, okay, you know, in our house it's a lot about them owning their own education and being able to articulate why right.
Speaker 2:That's part of our critical thinking in our house and process and so we knew why social right, totally get that. But we wanted him to be able to articulate that. If that makes sense and it goes to this whole point of how everything in our society and everything is geared towards you won't have a normal teenage experience and I want my child to experience all those fun things that we did Right, all of that. Well, I get all that, but, I'm sorry, equate that with what you just said to me. Can we talk about logic here and the scale as a parent, yes.
Speaker 2:I'm sorry. I want my child to go to homecoming, but it's okay if you tell them that they can have a gender change. I'm sorry, it just doesn't even compute. It doesn't compute in my mind as a parent. But here's the other thing that I get to this point a lot and it's very difficult to break through to someone who does not have an open mind and has gone through the system and not been taught to think critically.
Speaker 2:Our whole education system is designed in the industrial age. It's why they did this to create workers for their companies. Period, no leadership, no critical thinking allowed. Oh and, by the way, no individualism whatsoever, and that is very intentional and that is completely anti United States. I actually don't even want to say that America right, anti, completely against.
Speaker 2:But if they don't take away that individualism, you can't create sheep. And if you don't take away good parents like you who are teaching their kids to critically think, but when they're in Mm-hmm. So how can we expect our children to be able to battle that with what you're teaching them right At home? But yet you've all of us me too right. Whenever we send people or allow people to oversee our children, we're transferring authority, so in our children's minds. They're okay, that institution's okay, right, but yet now they're with our children more than we are, and I think one of the things that really allowed my husband to jump on board and I was shocked he jumped on board so quickly. I tried to sabotage it. I got to tell you I'll be honest.
Speaker 2:I was so scared. I was so scared, four kids in four years. So I didn't share that. Like I had a eight year old, a seven year old, a five year old and a four year old and I'm going to homeschool, you got to be kidding me Like insanity, right there, right. And so I tried to sabotage it because when I I am a Christian, so letting that out there and I was praying and I said, lord, okay, I don't want to challenge you, but oh my gosh, okay. So I need these three things answered. And within 48 hours, in a ridiculous way, they were answered.
Speaker 2:I didn't know there were homeschool, like homeschoolers anywhere. I didn't know there were homeschool support groups. I didn't know there were field trips, there were co-ops, there were classes. This is 20 years ago. I had no idea of any of that.
Speaker 2:But then the number three was my husband had to be fully on board. He was working a pretty, you know, a lot of our corporate job at the time and I knew he wouldn't be able to be hands on, but I tried to sabotage it. Oh my gosh, he never. He doesn't like talking on the phone, especially about big things, and he sure doesn't want to talk on the phone on the way home from work. He'll be home shortly. So what did I do? I called him on the way home from work, so I got to be honest about that and I and I was like so you know, I've been looking into this and I really think we should do it, and here's why. And he goes yeah, I think you're right, we should do it and I think you'll be great at it, but just know I can't. And I was like the best decision we've ever made. Because he saw, and I asked him why I am getting to my point. I asked him why and I he said Leslie, like we've been talking about every weekend.
Speaker 2:We felt like we had to deprogram our children every single weekend they were in school. We felt like we had to reorient the way they were viewing things, the values and our values and the hard work and just a variety of different things. So the socialization our children were getting, we felt was horrible and it's logical. Let's use that word again if you think about it, since when is it good for a second grader to teach a second grader how to behave? Ever? That's the socialization they're getting, and they get it for 15 minutes here, 20 minutes there. They're really. So what do we mean when we say that? Right, and I would have loved to have brought my my youngest loves to come with me when I speak, and the first time I presented for CHD he was there and he loves to answer this question.
Speaker 2:So you know, I know I'm kind of digressing a little bit from what you said, but all of those, like we talked about myths really stem a lot from that same concept of we all need to be doing the same thing. We all have to be homogenous, getting rid of that individualization and honoring that and lifting that up Good for you, like my response is awesome. Why did you choose that? That's, that's cool. Why does that work better for your kids? Same thing with me and doing what I do. My goal is to strengthen and empower parents to choose what's best for their child, but to be doing that informed and understand that there are options. And in our country it makes perfect sense because we've now had 125 years of intentional movement and indoctrination and it's completely tied in with the hyper-sexualization of our children. So it there's just an incredible, incredible amount of information out there now where you can see the systematic, documented Everybody's like. I want the facts right. Well, these days, what are the facts right? Who's presenting them, even science? Who funded the study right?
Speaker 2:So, we could go down that rabbit hole. Like.
Speaker 3:I'll come back.
Speaker 2:We'll talk about that even more but it does figure into exactly you just brought it up. When are people going to wake up that we need to protect our children? Look at what's all coming out now about the pedophilia and the literally. I don't know if you guys have seen some of the videos of workers who have been there and are now speaking out as part of HHS, where our tax dollars are funding this now.
Speaker 2:I don't know if you guys have seen that oh yeah, there are workers now, shoot, I can't remember her name. I just watched her again. There are three or four of them who were sent to help in the camps and help these children find homes. Well, while they're there, these children are crying for their parents. Which camps Out in California?
Speaker 1:Remember when all the migrants and all the children were separated from their parents.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 2:Think about the news and the political stuff we got and how horrible and how wonderful Obama administration and Biden administration are helping these children find homes. They were taken from their homes. I do remember hearing about this.
Speaker 1:There's like 80,000 missing kids right in America More than that now, more than that.
Speaker 2:Now I think they're saying around 400,000 at this point. Yeah, that's the latest number I've heard, but I'm not in it like these people I'm just getting this from the people who were there and they're trying so hard. As a matter of fact, she just she testified to Congress. This is all. But see that information is not getting to people.
Speaker 2:So when I'm saying this, I'm, I'm telling you, I heard this information her sitting there testifying to a congressional hearing, at a congressional hearing. This isn't like, oh, you know, one of the whoever people love to vilify or whatever, right or left, it doesn't matter, it's not coming from a pundit just throwing something out there it is. It was literally a woman who was there and several of them testifying under oath at a congressional hearing. You know, if you don't get the information, it's another reason I love to to come on and talk to you guys or, you know, go to speak to parents. You know, I'm not here to convince you, but I am here to educate you and I want you to know information so that you can make an informed, consensual decision about your children and that you know about your children and that you know you don't have to subject them to this and it's just not okay. And even if you are someone who, a parent who agrees that that would be okay to do, you should still be a part of that conversation.
Speaker 1:That is what.
Speaker 2:I cannot stand, and so I'm not here to dictate to someone what to believe. I know my own beliefs but, my goodness, a parent of such a life-changing decision and as a society we're not knocking down doors and getting together and protesting that just blows my mind. It really does.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's crazy and I feel like recently I also saw I can't remember what state it was, if it was Virginia or that is allowing schools to provide hormone blockers to kids without parental consent. What state was that?
Speaker 2:Oh, that's good, there are several. Oh, there's several.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because California, I think, had already had that. This is like the further step. Oh goodness.
Speaker 2:Yes, so there are several states that, and I'm surprised that it's Virginia.
Speaker 1:I hadn't heard that that may not have been correct. If it is Virginia, I can't remember which state it was. Well, there's so much happening yeah.
Speaker 1:Like I don't want to miss back to. I guess one of the things that I've heard kind of often within my own family is, you know, the things that we're hearing in the media about this type of stuff is only happening in the really really crazy liberal hyper blue areas. It's not really happening here. That would never happen in our school district, or OK, maybe it's happening in Chicago where we were, but it's definitely not happening out where we're at. That you know, and I guess what's your response to that? Or what are ways that parents could really kind of check to see if it is, or how how would they know?
Speaker 2:Right, what is it? Let me ask a follow-up question. So what? What are you hearing that in relation to Cause? I hear that mostly in relation to the I'm just going to call it what it is pornography books that are allowed.
Speaker 1:Is that really what you're hearing?
Speaker 2:The gender stuff, but not even the gender stuff. I don't know if you all have actually looked at the books that are in the school, so even locally, here to answer your question directly.
Speaker 2:What I say to them is you need to be informed, okay, and so how do you go about that? Right, logically, as parents, we say okay, we're going to call a school, school goes, we don't have any pornography books. Think about the language and how they answer, and I've heard this from so many parents Well, I'd like to come into the library. Well, you're not allowed. Do you know that? So many schools now their policies, you, as a parent, you can't like go into the school. You have to either be escorted, you have to have a very specific purpose and where you're going.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So this did come up and everyone's response because we've toured a couple of places and then our youngest did attend somewhere last year where we were only allowed into the building on certain times, which is very, very hard and challenging, and the response was well, we did it during COVID and now we're maintaining that because it's a safety thing and it Safety from your parents. Do you hear what that just said?
Speaker 2:And it safety from your parents. Do you hear what that just said? Safety from a parent? I'm sorry, I it blows my mind.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's crazy, right when you start thinking about it.
Speaker 2:Safety from a parent. How did that make you feel?
Speaker 1:Well, so the response I got was they have over 500 kids in the school, and so that's a lot of parents, and so just to make sure kids are getting to all their places safely and correctly, you know, and to cut down on the traffic within the school, you do drop off at the door.
Speaker 2:So could you go in at any point during the day? No, if you called them and scheduled an appointment.
Speaker 1:No, okay, no, because I did ask if I could go in the first day because I knew she was going to have a little bit of a hard time, and they said, no, you can come in on, you know, muffins with mom days. So they designated the days she could come in.
Speaker 2:Yes, they designated the days, and how did that make you feel as a parent?
Speaker 1:Oh, it sucked, it totally sucked.
Speaker 3:Well, you don't feel connected whatsoever. I mean it's like oh, I get to go in this special day, but you know, I never, never got to see the teachers regularly, besides at the drop off, and like they, just take them and go. You know, there was never really a oh, how was the day? Or you know, just kind of like the regular check. Well you don't get to see.
Speaker 1:You know you don't get to see how they're acting in the environment and what the teachers are like in the environment. Who's even in the classroom at the time? So then I had a lot of back and forth in the beginning of okay, well, you've got people coming in and teaching music. You've got people coming in and teaching this. Like who are they? How did you find them? Tell me about them. Who are these people that are coming?
Speaker 2:in right.
Speaker 1:And then it was who are the assistant teachers and who are the aftercare teachers. You know who are the assistant teachers and who are. You know the aftercare teachers like who?
Speaker 2:are these people Right? Cause I'm never going to get to meet them. So who's going to be there with my child influencing?
Speaker 1:my child.
Speaker 2:And I love the word that you use you don't feel connected and there's a complete disconnect. And let me ask you this Are you familiar with this, the school and what their policies were prior to COVID?
Speaker 1:Uh no, I don't know what their policies were prior to COVID.
Speaker 2:Okay, Cause I'm pretty sure I know the school you're talking about and the, if it is their policies were you could go in anytime as long as again, maybe went in and if there were 500 parents there then maybe you might have to wait. But I can tell you right now, and if you think about it, when would that ever happen? Has that ever happened?
Speaker 1:No, and it's interesting because. So the school that both our girls are going to go to now is K through 12 or pre-K through 12. So even you know bigger range. I don't know if they're more numbers or not. Our daughter only went there for one year on purpose. And now they're going to go to the same school, but you know we drop off there all the time. It's never overcrowded, it's never.
Speaker 2:I mean maybe sometimes a parking issue, but that's because everybody's dropping off at the same time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, right, but it was never like an issue to go into school. We could always go in and you're never, it didn't feel unsafe Right.
Speaker 2:Right, and I just and I and I I'm sorry I interrupted you in that, but it completely blows my mind when they say it's a safety issue and then they come up with all these other you know reasons that really don't happen ever, right.
Speaker 1:And Reasons that really don't happen ever Right.
Speaker 2:And this isn't even a government school. This is a traditional private school.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 2:And that's something that I get a lot. Quite a lot lately are a lot of people contacting me and saying do you know of any other traditional? A lot of times they want Christian because a lot of traditional schools, traditional private schools, are Christian and they're looking for that for their child. That's what they want. And then they go and realize that all of the same DEI, crt stuff is in that school.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Okay, yeah, we discovered that too when we were looking at schools. So at our current school, to our knowledge, that doesn't exist. I'm pretty confident that that stuff doesn't exist there. But we learned when we were touring other private schools. There was one school that flat out told us they said, well, we don't agree with any of that either, but technically we're taking funds from the state and the feds and so we do have to follow these parts of the state curriculum. And then we were just sitting there and we're like, well, that's not okay with us, because maybe this teacher's not okay teaching it, but the next person who comes in or the next class, they're going to feel very differently. Right, correct. And so they were no's for us. We're like, well, no, we can't, we can't come here.
Speaker 2:And to that point that also mandates the curriculum that they use, and it is all the curriculum that are used in traditional private schools and in, who have to follow the federal and state guidelines because they take our money by the way, they take tax money they must utilize curriculum that meets different standards. Okay, and what is not in that curriculum is critical thinking, any kind of leadership or individualization. It is completely altered history, american history especially. And going back to my own son's experience in first grade that I was sharing with you earlier, right Again, fabulous teacher, and I asked to see all the books that my son was going to be using that year and after. And I looked at the social studies book and I said, oh, this is actually accurate. William Penn founded Pennsylvania because of religious, but, like everything, was because of religious purposes and Christian and they named it whatever it was and I went, oh, this is accurate, hallelujah.
Speaker 2:And then I found out that all the other first grade classes were using a different book as we got into the year, and I cause, my neighbor's son was in a different first grade classroom and I happened to be. We happened to get into a discussion about it and I went how interesting. Okay, and it's because that teacher had been there so long. As a matter of fact, she told us later in the year that was her last year teaching, she was retiring the next year and taking early retirement. And she told me later, and she found out I was homeschooling. I had decided to homeschool at the end of the year or at the next year is when I actually decided when he was in second grade. But she knew that I was starting to think about it because of like, at the end there, because I started asking her questions, I said I found this great book, blah, blah, blah. And so she came to me and said by the way, I was allowed to choose that history book because I could care less what they say, there's nothing they can do to me and I'm taking early retirement and they know that Cause. I asked, like why are you able to use this one? And I was reading the other. Oh my God, completely whitewashed. And we're talking facts.
Speaker 2:This has nothing to do Don't get me started on the separation of church and state, but those choices. So private schools the way, specifically here in Illinois, that the government can have oversight and get into private schools is exactly that way. So there's a process here in Illinois that's completely voluntary, completely voluntary to either register, be recognized or registered with the Illinois State Board of Education, and or, if you do that, we'll throw you some money our tax money, by the way we'll throw you some more money and we will allow you to participate with government schools in sports and extracurricular activities. So that's the way they reel you in and so that is not understood. First of all, that it's voluntary right.
Speaker 2:So I have a blog post on my website because I was getting this exact question and a lot of people coming to me. So I have. I wrote a blog post and said, listen, if you want a private school, traditional private school, awesome, here are. I think I have eight or nine questions that you should ask, if very direct questions, because I had parents saying to me well, we kind of asked about that, but they get around it. Remember that whole language thing.
Speaker 2:So I explained why you're asking each of these and exactly what to ask, because they can't squirm out of it and you'll know. Then you'll know if they don't answer you directly or if they don't tell you these things, then you can pretty much bet that you're going to have either DEI or CRT focus that concept, or that's going to be built in, if that makes sense, and these are Christian schools, whether it be Catholic or non-denominational Protestant. You get that seeping in. There are very few, very few, and if you know of others, please let me know, cause I'm always always great wanting to share those resources. Right, because I realized parents need to be able to make their own decisions. But if it's okay, I want to go back to the first thing you said there about federal and state money. So many people don't realize that our US Constitution is very clear on what areas Congress, a federal government, a national government is allowed to legislate on. Okay, so in Article I, section 8, I should be quizzing my students.
Speaker 3:Normally.
Speaker 1:I'm like all right, what article?
Speaker 2:what section? In Article I, section 8, it delineates exactly the powers of Congress. Two of the biggest key areas that are not in there even slightly are education and health. Why? Because that should be left to the individuals Individuals and the family Exactly the individuals and the family or the states respectively, which, by the way, is the Tenth Amendment, again something that people need to know. In the Bill of Rights, the Tenth Amendment specifically says those powers that are not specifically granted to Congress are left to the states and the people respectively, like they felt it was so important that that had to be specified. The reason so many delegates didn't vote for the original Constitution is because that Bill of Rights was not included and it was led by George Mason from Virginia because he had written one for Virginia. And he says no, no, no, unless you spell out individual rights from history, this is what happens.
Speaker 1:You mean we shouldn't have had a federal vaccine mandate? Really, imagine that? Not in the Bill of Rights, I know.
Speaker 2:Imagine that. Or let's even say a Department of Education. I was just going to say that, yeah, the Bill of Rights. I know, imagine that. Or let's even say a Department of Education. I was just going to say that, yeah, a Department of Education. Yeah, do you guys know? When? Do you remember I may have brought this up when I did my talk Do you remember when it came into existence? The 70s? Yes, with Jimmy Carter? Yes, and that's when it was passed, but it was which was shocking to me.
Speaker 1:I just assumed it had been around like forever. I thought the Department of Education had been around for a long time.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, me too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean that's a very reasonable thing, because we're not taught any differently in school Right. Yeah, I do remember it. Actually, my dad again remember the nerd part here I'm going to get governmenty, but my dad was actually a presidential appointee under Jimmy Carter and his administration and very, very nice man. I want to say that I was blessed to meet him a couple of times and just kind, kind, kind and my dad always said just a good man but a bad leader, just bottom line.
Speaker 2:I mean, history's kind of bore that out and you know so I don't think I'm saying anything people haven't heard before, but from somebody who and you know, so I don't think I'm saying anything people haven't heard before. Yeah, but from somebody who was there, you know he very much said that. But what I'm getting at is so I remember, I remember this because it was a very big discussion in my household. Right, and, by the way, my resume reads like a who's who in Democratic politics because I grew up in Southern Democratic household. Who's who in democratic politics because I grew up in Southern Democratic household. But it was a very different.
Speaker 2:Democratic Party, a very different, very fiscally conservative and a very, very different environment. And I grew up with a wonderful I would love to even say a wonderful man, lawton Childs, former Senator, chair of the Senate Budget Committee, and then a lot of people know him because he then went on to be governor of Florida and then won his second race very tightly against Jeb Bush and then died suddenly in office very early in his second term and that brought in Jet because he won the runoff election. Wonderful man, yeah, wonderful man, and I was really blessed to be there. So during that administration what my dad was doing and he wasn't involved in education directly at all, he was actually the director of the Office of Federal Procurement Policy and so a lot of the hearings and stuff I went to was related to or the luncheons that I was blessed to be able to sit and keep my mouth shut and just listen involved government contracting out laws and government contracting out stuff right. But we had this discussion about the Department of Education in my household and it's so interesting to me because I then went to the College of William Mary and I studied government and it kind of blew my mind.
Speaker 2:So this was during the Reagan now administration when I'm in college and it kind of blew my mind when I was there that it was just brushed over and and I never got a straight answer from these amazing professors. Think about that. So circling back around to education, right. And so I'm sitting there and I'm listening to one of my professors once and I thought to myself, have you ever even attended a Senate hearing or a congressional hearing? Because of what he was saying and talking about it and describing it, and I'm sitting there going. I don't know what you're talking about. I don't know what you're describing. So think about that Amazing professor. And, by the way, I loved my education at William Mary. But this was, you know, one thing that stood out and I thought, okay, let's circle back around again questioning. I thought it's unconstitutional to have a department of education circular reasoning around and around, kept coming back Nothing, no good answer.
Speaker 2:Well, think about, I was blessed to have the background I did, to be in the household, I was to experience, and that's why I was sharing all that. So I had that kind of background and information. Did you guys, like you said, most people, if you don't have that kind of environment, how the heck are you supposed to know? Because the experts and the teachers are teaching us the truth. They're teaching us facts. No, they're not. I want to use the word reality instead. Right, those words feel like they've been co-opted to me. I don't know how you guys feel about that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, right. I think that's the hardest thing for people now is to try and determine what is truth, what is fact, because if you turn on, one channel you hear one thing. You turn on another channel, you hear something totally different and it's literally black and white. I feel like there's a spin.
Speaker 3:That can happen with anything that's being told.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely yeah, literally everything.
Speaker 3:And, all of a sudden, everything that you may have learned previously is like oh, that's all wrong, or you?
Speaker 2:know. Yeah, you know.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and so I think it's hard, I think, for a lot of people to just to really think is that really happening in today's education system? And it's like to your point. We just don't have the information that's being held from us.
Speaker 2:Correct. And just that's why I asked you that question, because if you, logically, are trying to find out, and how do you go about finding it Right? How do you go about finding that information? So you definitely want to. When I talk to people about that, I say you want to also talk to a variety of different people. Talk to people who you know, who homeschool. Why did you pull your kids? What's going on out there? But, more importantly, you can see what's in the public schools. All you have to do is walk into any of these local libraries here. During the month of June, these books were front and center at many of the local libraries here. Those are the same books that are in your elementary school library, right?
Speaker 2:And I also think parents have been cowed and guilted and told these policies they're your kids. I was starting. I got that when my kids were in school and I just didn't agree. I just said no, I'm sorry, I'm the parent, that is my child, I will come in and I will go. Now, that is my child. And they didn't know what to say and they backed down Because I got some of the same thing in the public school and I and parents need to be empowered to do that, but we've been again remember what we were talking about. We've been told we don't know what's best. We, during this time that's been, by the way, quoted their hours.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, and I, I. So I had several friends who studied education in college and I think back to some of the just the conversations that I had with them when they were student teaching and how easy it was to to go along and support them. And you know all, all these parents think that they know how to educate their kids and they need to just leave it to the teachers. The teachers know best. You know they're not educators, they didn't study education and you know it's like oh yeah, that makes sense. You know, same with any profession, right, like you just kind of go along with it and I think back to those conversations now and I'm just like, wow, like I think.
Speaker 1:Second, you know, collegiate education has really empowered educators now to believe that they really are higher than parents and that they really do know best and that they really are entitled to keep secrets from parents. And I know firsthand that that was happening. I have a sister who just graduated from the same high school I went to just this last year. She's starting college in the fall and over the last several years we'd had conversations with her and at the beginning of each school year or semester, you know, she gets this worksheet from the teacher and it's like, oh, tell me about yourself, Tell me about your family, and really like in-depth questions. And on the surface it's like, oh, they're just trying to get to know you, you know. But the questions got to a point of like, how do you identify, what are your pronouns, how do you want to be called and do you want to be called something different in the presence of your parents? I mean literally down to that level, Like so, when you know people in my family would start saying, well, that's not really happening, or maybe that's happening in Chicago, that's not happening here, you know, my mom would raise her hand and be like, actually it's happening right here in our hometown, because Madison was my sister, was having those things happen.
Speaker 1:So I, and then I guess, how do you find it? I, when I was researching schools, I started researching like public schools too, and it's very, very challenging to get into the nitty gritty. But I will say to parents, if you can find the board meeting minutes, sometimes you can get lucky, and schools that are great at documenting will hyperlink things to a certain policy and if you click into that policy they'll hyperlink to a list of books that they're trying to propose or a list of proposals that they're trying to get in there. Because I did find at a school a list of books they were trying to put in pre-K and kindergarten. It was like, oh my gosh.
Speaker 2:But I am also finding and you're required to do that, by the way, by Illinois state law. They're required to, but most do not.
Speaker 1:There's a lot of schools are not because I've looked at other schools, or I went back and looked at that same school and things were gone. The links were taken down. It was like you know you can't find it right now or you can't access this.
Speaker 2:We're still deciding.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was really kind of quick. And then you had also mentioned talking to other parents. We were talking to a family who's homeschooling their kids now too, and she was saying the things that her neighbors are saying are happening in the schools Parents are just finding out by happenstance, you know, the type of bingo that their kids are playing in first grade. You know they're playing gender bingo, gender identity bingo.
Speaker 2:It's like in first grade and kindergarten In first grade around here you know, yeah, I mean just yeah, it's, it's crazy.
Speaker 1:I mean just it's crazy, it is happening, it is happening everywhere, it's happening everywhere and the school board minutes.
Speaker 2:I mean you can do. You can go even another level and do like FOIA requests as well, right, and they're required to follow through on that. But those FOIA requests, if you haven't done, they have to be very clear and very specific right.
Speaker 2:But there are also a lot of groups right now who are really geared towards information and getting the word out there and knowing, having information. So, like in McHenry County, there's an amazing group called we, the People, and when I can I try to help out there too and provide information or support or help, because their you know their goal is it's we, the people, and we need to know and understand and demand that information. Right and so. But I'm going to just go back to my government background again, just bringing that up. The problem with that, especially here in the state of Illinois, is those changes might happen incrementally but, getting down to the fundamental crux of it, it's still that same board who's making the decisions and they vote Right and so it. It's a very difficult thing in our system right now to make those fundamental changes like flipping a board yeah.
Speaker 2:Okay, I mean, look at the concerted effort here in our state. This and the interim election that we just had Right, which was our school boards. So, in 2022. So in our state Right, that was the the integral interim one with our governor and the school boards. And it was huge, and the amount of time and effort and everything that went into that. Nothing. I mean nothing. And what happens is if, okay, you can change one seat, well then you've got this lone wolf. What?
Speaker 3:can they really do right?
Speaker 2:now they can, they can highlight at a board meeting, so I do want to share I think. Going to board meetings, though, is anything a parent can do to be strong and direct and clear and forceful about. This is my child and I. I want to literally walk through that library. I have every right to, because that is where my child is going to be. So one of phenomenal I think.
Speaker 2:I have one of his books here, yeah, a phenomenal resource for understanding education John Taylor Gatto. Okay, and this one I don't even know if this one's in print anymore the underground history of American education. It's an incredible book, and there are several others here which I'll mention later, but he also wrote wrote a book called dumbing us down. Okay, and John Taylor Gatto, I love his information, and it's dumbing us down was one of the books I read. When I you know, like you guys, it's like, okay, what do I do? We just want the best for our kids, right? Parents love their kids the most period, right? And so I read this book, and it was spoke volumes to me for exactly what we were just talking about. Talking to other parents, hearing direct experiences from people, I think is very, very important right now and speaking to one another, think about what covid did yeah, I had to do right you can't
Speaker 2:get together. You can't talk. Talk to everyone. Everyone be open, listen, listen to people's experiences. Well, john Taylor Gatto is was. It was he passed away very 2017, I think, but he was not only numerous times the New York city teacher of the year. He got he won the New York state teacher of the year and this man taught in every type of school, every socioeconomic level. He taught in Harlem and all the way up to the magnet schools like my dad went to like a Stuyvesant. So he and this man, the results, the reason he was getting all the accolades were the results that his students had, including like in Harlem, because he knew how to reach the kids and he was focused on the kids. He could care less about what was going on around. So much so that the day after he won New York state teacher of the year, he put in a huge op-ed piece in the New York times where he basically resigned and said, called out the whole school system and what a scam it was, and he called schools legalized prison for children.
Speaker 2:That was his phrase Do you know what Most schools? You know who they're? The architect that designed schools. The same architect for prisons.
Speaker 1:You got it. Yeah, they all look the same.
Speaker 2:Think about it. Our kids are conditioned to do what Change at a bell, ask permission to go to the bathroom, told when to eat. Yet some I don't know if it was you- or someone else brought up that correlation.
Speaker 1:to me it was like look at schools, even look at like big company cubicles and prisons they're all designed the same way. You sit at the desk, you follow your orders, you do what you're told, you've got this schedule, Yep, and and that's it. You go eat, you go to the bathroom. When you're told you know, it's like, yeah, you're, you're teaching conformity and compliance and exactly yeah.
Speaker 2:And, you know, following everyone else doing the same thing, and that's a good thing, and that's a good thing, right? But he also brought to light, he became a huge proponent of a philosophy of education called unschooling, and that means basically that it's all the education is fully directed by the child. So you're not, you know, deciding curriculum and deciding this it's, you are guided by the child's interests, passions, you know, and so like there are no books or textbooks unless a child says, hey, no, I want to learn more about this and I want a textbook, you know it can be at different levels.
Speaker 2:For example, when I was homeschooling and people would say, oh, what's your philosophy of homeschooling? I said we're classical unschoolers. Well, classical education is as far away from unschooling pretty much as you can get. So people are like, wait, what? So I don't, I don't. I'm not sitting here saying one is better than the other, exactly why I do what I do. Right, it's individualized. But John Taylor Gatto highlighted the fact that if you are there to mentor, it's why any program that I am in or running or helping to start, I don't call them teachers, I call them mentors, because isn't that to parenting? It's, it's leadership. Parenting is leadership. That's it. It's leadership with the most love you can imagine. Right, so you're walking alongside them, right? As parents, don't? We all want the same thing. We want to empower our kids to be the best version of themselves. We want them to be, you know, critical thinkers, compassionate, confident, right and who they are humble. So parents want the same thing for their kids. So my just heart is to then give parents back the ability to do that Right and and.
Speaker 2:And it breaks my heart, honestly, when some of the people who are the most antagonistic towards whether it's me or homeschooling, I recognize that because that's the defensive mechanism, like, okay, well, you're judging me now and you're telling me that I'm making a bad decision for my child by not homeschooling. Well, no, as long as you're informed and you have informed consent. Because I truly believe, just like we were talking about with the Department of Education we don't know what we don't know, right, but it has to start there. We have to start and allow ourselves to be curious, which are not allowed in school. What's the other thing you have to do? If you want to say anything Can't stand it. In my class, when I teach, I'm like no, no, no, no raising hands, whether I was teaching online or in here. I'm like you don't need to raise your hand, call it out, let's call it out, I'm okay with that.
Speaker 2:Just say it say it and if I miss you, tell me again. Just say it If you and it doesn't get chaotic or busy. Oh, you can't have that. You have to have order. No, you don't. No, you don't Right. No, you don't. Why can't you have chaos and have an amazing conversation? Start because somebody gets a child, gets excited or challenges you. Heaven forbid, yeah, right, yes, that drove me crazy when I was in school.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Now, as you can tell, probably, my brain is connected to my mouth.
Speaker 2:I do realize that I am definitely a verbal or my crim law professor saw that too. It was hysterical. You know, we, I came up to him and and after the semester was over and I happened to do very well when I was we call it on the block in his class and and I and I didn't do great on the test because I do not test well, you tell me I'm supposed to take one test for my grade and tell you in three hours everything I know and figure out. It's not going to happen, it's just not going to happen. So I went up to him and I'm like, cause he didn't know my grade? He's like how'd you do, mr Umberger? And I said, not well, he's like I know. And I was like thanks a lot. And he goes no, no, no, he goes. Your brain's connected to your mouth. You're going to be just fine. So to the point of education.
Speaker 2:When I was there, I got so frustrated with that and I wasn't intrusive. I didn't want to continually jump in, but I wanted the opportunity to really engage with what was happening. I wanted to engage with the information I wanted. I love Socratic because make me think deeper, challenge me. It's what I had in my household and it worked for me. That doesn't mean everybody has to do that, but if somebody is that way, I have multiple students and I loved it when they really embraced and believed what I said, especially in the classes I've taught in the last few years, because almost all of them are COVID homeschoolers and came out of public school recently, and when they embrace that.
Speaker 2:Oh my goodness, the discussions that happen and how much I learned by the questions they ask and how they challenged me, and I loved it when I could go. That is an awesome question. I have no idea the answer. You got to give me a week. I'll come back to you next week and let you know how many teachers did you guys have that did that? Not many, not many. Yeah, you guys have that did that.
Speaker 1:Not many, not many. Yeah, I mean me either Me, either Right.
Speaker 2:And so it's that it's that same curiosity that us, as parents, need to get back and to have and be empowered that we are the advocates if you want to use that word of our children period. Would you send your child off to the hospital for those experts and leave them alone in a hospital all day long? Just curious.
Speaker 1:No, of course not, certainly not.
Speaker 2:No, no, even before COVID.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah Right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, right. And people say, oh well, you know that's a very different scenario, you know it's scary and this and that not, not if the parent goes hey, you know you'll be fine, it's all good, I'll be back when I can. You know the doctors and because they're kind and they are right, there's nice people, kind people, whatever. And yes, of course it's not a direct correlation, but it's that same mindset to be empowered to be there and make the decisions either for or with our children as they get older, right. So as a society, now we're saying, oh, by the way, in kindergarten, our child is perfectly capable of deciding if they're a different gender. That's really what we're saying when they walk in yeah, right. And then they go home to mom and dad to your point earlier. Then they go home to mom and dad and are like, why are they asking me if I'm a girl and it's a boy or vice versa, right. And that's the only way parents know things are going on If your child's not a talker like me how are you gonna find that?
Speaker 2:out right exactly, and I've been told directly by parents that their child says but you know crying that their child goes, but I'm not allowed to tell you yeah these are kindergartners, first graders, second graders, so talking to people, looking, looking, you know reading, you know understanding the progress and what's going on, and so much is tied in.
Speaker 3:I want to ask you because I kind of want to move into like the execution of all this Absolutely. Because I think it's very easy for us to say you know, mom and dad both work. Yeah, how is it even possible? I don't even have the headspace. My job is so demanding. We really rely on education that's around us publicly Childcare To take this huge burden you know, to educate our kids, because I've got to go work my nine to five and sometimes it's longer because it's a lot more demanding.
Speaker 3:Mom has to do that too.
Speaker 2:Like where?
Speaker 3:how do we get to an execution that is even possible? That's a great question For a family like that, which is majority right.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:We're unique because Rachel is stay at home. I call her head of household.
Speaker 2:Great title, it's true. It's true Totally.
Speaker 3:And you know, and I'm I'm the business owner, I've developed the individualism. But I went through the whole public thing and you know I tried the corporate world and that's what everybody was.
Speaker 2:You know you were supposed to do Right Right Lawyer here, remember I'm with you and you can still have a nice career doing that.
Speaker 3:But for some reason, it didn't click for me and I needed something more. And like it's, it's really transformed us as we've gone through this whole entrepreneurship realm to now. We want to instill those qualities into our kids. Yeah, because it wasn't really instilled in us, no, growing up. Yeah, you know, we were. This is what you do, this is the step. You go to school, you learn, raise your hand, go to college.
Speaker 2:Go to college get a good job, get a good job.
Speaker 3:And as long as you put your head down, work hard, you'll be rewarded.
Speaker 2:Right, right and get a pension.
Speaker 3:Right, yeah, used to be what they say, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah Right, non-existent.
Speaker 3:Right, so. So I guess, like, how do we, how do we just break down like the execution of even going down this road of doing the homeschool.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a great question and you bring up a lot of good points, right, because, without going down the rabbit hole again of how we've gotten here, of mom having to work as well, right, starting in a very intentional World War II, right, and getting mom out of the household Again, kind of the breakdown of the family, our economy, right, it is a very valid thing to say that there are families who, to survive and put food on the table and a roof over their family's head, they both have to work, right, so that's a circumstance.
Speaker 2:And I'd like to also say that there are many families who let's break down that word and want and kind of compare want versus need, because we've also been, as women I know, started with my generation, even before my generation. Oh, yes, you can do anything, you can be anything and it's okay and it's good. And I'm not saying it's not. I was very good at my lawyer job and I enjoyed a lot of it, right. But again, there's that element of this is what makes you valuable to our society, if that makes sense.
Speaker 1:Kind of like.
Speaker 2:Look at the latest controversy you know coming out of some speeches recently, and it's not saying you cannot choose, and I feel I can say this as a former professional, like all the way up right the level I taught at. So what happens is and I want to start here is first, I do want to challenge parents to really think about this and I bluntly say you're either going to sacrifice some time and money because, oh yes, it takes time and it takes money, because all of your tax money is going to other people's kids and actually not even to the kids, it's going to the administrators. Look countrywide where the money's going or you're going to sacrifice your kids. You are. You have to make that choice and decision. I was three fourths of our income when I decided and my husband and I together decided that I was going to stay home with our kids. When we then decided to homeschool, my husband lost his job not too long after that, in the big recession, his corporate position. I can't even tell you the financial situation we were in. And again, you know, as Christians we prayed about it and put a lot of thought into it, a lot of discussion, and it just wasn't an option for us to not continue homeschooling our kids, especially as we were seeing what was continuing to happen. And I'm not judging, but I am challenging everyone to really think about their own circumstances and to think about things that they can do, and that's what I would love to share now. So I want to start there by saying, if there is a need which I completely understand that you have to work first, take a look at your home or where you are. Can you make changes? Sometimes you can't like there. There's no way you can make that change. Okay, so both parents have to work or it's a single parent. Start talking to your neighbors, your community, your friends.
Speaker 2:Here's a perfect example. I was hired by I think it was five families to come in and, within two hours, actually stayed a little longer. I think I was there about three hours. All of them were double working families or single parent families that had to work to support their child or children, and they were desperate. And these are just families who kind of met. They lived in the same area at the same school and ended up talking saying, hey, there's somebody else and we really want to homeschool, but we can't figure it out.
Speaker 2:So I came in, explained all the laws and the parameters and then I said all right, let's now get down to the nitty gritty. Any of you have any flexibility in your hours and in your work week. Think about what COVID's done for people with remote working. And one single mom goes yeah, actually I don't have to work on Fridays and I go. Great, could you oversee the?
Speaker 2:I think it was a total of eight kids and there were some varied ages. Could you oversee them on Fridays? Absolutely Okay, great. Chimed in, another family chimes in. Well, you know what? My mom has already offered to watch all the kids. If parents have to work later, and it's like end of a school day, right, my mom can come in and watch all the kids until the parents can pick them up at our house any day of the week Awesome.
Speaker 2:So what I'm getting at is, by the time I finished, these families were so excited. And then something else I do Okay Now. Now you say to yourselves okay, but they're all different ages and they learn differently and whatever. Well, that's where shameless plug, my system comes in right, which is geared towards the entire family, but the result is getting an individual learning plan for each child, and I recommend an individual learning plan so parents understand themselves better, but then also a family learning plan, okay, and so each of these families can go through that work.
Speaker 2:I, you know, at that time I work with them. I'm actually about I put it into a self paced course which I'm finishing up right now. It should drop within the next two weeks so that families can have their plan. So when kids are schooling, we have this impression from mechanics, right that our kids need to be in a public school and sitting at a table and learning. Do you know that for every hour your child is in school, do you know how many minutes they're actually being taught for every hour? And this is a public school statistic? Yes, just, I mean, obviously it's not a lot because we're talking here, but what would you guys guess?
Speaker 3:For every hour.
Speaker 2:For every hour. How much are they being? How many?
Speaker 3:minutes are they being?
Speaker 1:taught or instructed Maybe 15 minutes.
Speaker 3:Well, I was going to say, yeah, I don't know, maybe half 30, 30 minutes or so.
Speaker 2:Seven.
Speaker 1:Well, my answer is coming from knowing how much time you need to do homeschooling. So I already had a step up on you. You did, you totally did. I was doing the math, so you were close, you were close.
Speaker 2:So in terms of the mechanics, that's a great broad question and I know I'm focusing on one of the toughest ones, which is double working families, but I've worked with numerous double income families. The other thing is when do you have to do school? Why does it have to be during the day? Why can't it be in the evenings? Or you have work that your kids are doing independently and then the evenings you're doing it, or Saturdays, because here's the thing book work for kids. So this is what Rachel was getting at. Even by the ISBE standards if I don't have my PowerPoint here each age group goes up a little bit by what they need for instruction and formal book work, formal education, right, and in kindergarten and first grade I would say it's about 20 minutes a day. That's it, Because the rest of the time they're learning by playing and doing so. Really many of the families I've worked with who have double income, that's great. Even if it is a want, that's fine too. That's great. I just wanted to make sure and challenge parents to think about the want, need, because if you can be honest with that, about that, then we can find solutions right. It's not a judgment at all, because I get it.
Speaker 2:It was hard transitioning with the level of litigation I was doing and what I was doing. I knew I never regretted it at all because it was a definite choice I wanted. However, that didn't mean it wasn't easy. It was very tough at times, right, because I was, I enjoyed it and I was kind of good at what I did, and so I understand even if it is a want and parents are choosing that, then we can figure that out. Do you have family members who are just there? They don't have to teach your kids, they don't have to teach, they can. What a joy to say to a grandmother, to an aunt or an uncle hey, on Tuesdays, you know, this is my busiest day, or whatever. Right On Tuesdays, would you mind? You know, do whatever. Go field trips. Oh, by the way, we got a membership to the Museum of Science and Industry. Can you take them there every week?
Speaker 1:It's incredible, like this misunderstanding that if you're homeschooling, you then have to like create the classroom at home and school from nine to three every day just like the school, but really you don't. And so the parents who have the double income need to find a solution, for childcare is what you're saying but the schooling part of it. They could do any of the other time they're spending with their kid, because the amount of time they actually need is so minimal.
Speaker 2:Correct and I find tutors. You know I help the families I work with. I get to know them and their kids very well.
Speaker 2:So, another thing that I will help them do is find a tutor also. So let's say, your kids are getting older. Well, for example, one of my families, I have an amazing, amazing tutor that is very suited to their boys and you know, they're in this situation where she comes in four hours, two days a week, so that's it. And then there's other. As they get older too, they might have other things they need to do outside learning, to have that independent learning. And so there's a, there's an absolute, there's always a solution, always a solution, but it's hard for me. I just wanted to give examples because it's hard for me, because it's individualized as well. Every family is different, but I want to encourage families that how to think, maybe outside the box, because, yes, we've started, started using school as childcare. Here's a perfect example when my children were in school and at one of the board meetings it was raised we would like by parents, we would like the school day for the high schoolers to start later.
Speaker 2:All kinds of statistics out there, including by the American Pediatric Association, that during teenage years by the way, it's biological they need more sleep. Our brains develop more during teen years or puberty, those hormone changes than at any other time in our life except birth to five. They need the sleep and their brains literally do not work as well. And you should never have class formal class until 9am for teenagers. So all kinds of science, all kinds of studies I'm sorry, not just science. Anecdotally, any parent who's ever had a teenager knows, right, or you were a teenager, right. So all us parents who didn't have teenagers at the time are all nodding because we all felt the same way. And the board.
Speaker 2:What happened was a lot of parents said no, we need the child care and our older kids can't get back. Then our older kids won't be there to watch our kids. Kids can't get back. Then our older kids won't be there to watch our kids. And we need childcare because both of us are working and this is in an Inverness community, okay, we're not talking all low-income parents, right? So it's become childcare and that's what we have to get away from, right? And then what do we do? Well, I do understand there are circumstances where it's tough and you don't. I obviously can't speak to everyone and I have tremendous empathy for them because I do, either by working with others or circumstances we've gone through. I do understand that. However, there will be a way. If your kids come first, yeah, so you can. The mechanics from that perspective. Otherwise, the mechanics I mean a lot of what we just said holds true. If mom is a primary or dad is a primary person there, you don't have to have a school room, right, you can find your way.
Speaker 2:I call it finding your rhythm as a family. So when I work with the families and you start homeschooling, it's a base, but you have to find your rhythm. It's a big transition. I talked about de-schooling, right, and all that is is like getting out of the box. Exactly All the things we're talking about here is really just enjoy relationships.
Speaker 2:That's the key is, as a family, develop those relationships.
Speaker 2:Think about how much your children would learn, or do learn, when you're just together and you're just talking, how much you can convey about life, entrepreneurship, everything right, when you're around your kids just time.
Speaker 2:And I will say, as your children get older, this is my advice to any parents out there who are watching this who have preteens or teens just make yourself available, the pure fact that you are just present, because they will talk to you in their time. So one of the things I started paying attention to and already kind of knew, because we were homeschooling for a long time before. That are my children's natural daily rhythms. So I knew one of my children was a night owl Okay, that was torture for me, not a night owl but if I stayed awake when my 15 or 16 year old came home late from closing at the restaurant he was working at and I was there, even if I'd fallen asleep in the chair, I would wake up when he came in two hours he'd sit there and just talk and share and we would have the best conversations. So a parent being able to make themselves available, my other child mornings, mornings. So my sleep rhythm was a little off for many years.
Speaker 2:But you see what? You see my point. There are so many benefits to homeschooling. I'm not here to convince anybody that they have to homeschool, I'm not. But I want to help parents. Just imagine, you know, and I say that in my presentations imagine having deep conversations with your children. Imagine your children dreaming or daring to dream again. Imagine your children having the time, the time to be creative, to be bored. Let them be bored. That's when our brains do their best work, because they've got time and space.
Speaker 2:And I will tell you, one of the things that breaks my heart is I have so many, mostly teenagers, who the parents find me somehow and I've worked with that literally have so much anxiety that they're throwing up as they're getting out of their parents' car and mom had the courage to say shut that door, you're not ever going back there again, are you kidding? That's how bad this has gotten. And our daughter just basically saying I can't go in there again because of the atmosphere. And that's what I've been seeing a lot, a lot since over the last four or five years. And it breaks my heart and it does take courage, believe me, I know that it does take courage to decide to homeschool and figure it out. And this was a single mom, single mom and granted, believe me, I know that it does take courage to decide to homeschool and figure it out. And this was a single mom, single mom and granted, her daughter was older, was a teenager right, so there is more autonomy available there but had a younger brother who ended up also homeschooling. So you just have to look at your own family circumstances. You have to look at your children and understand. It is an epidemic and we hear that all the time. We hear I mean, look at what we've been hearing statistics with suicides and anxiety. Why do you think they've, they've been able to get such a toehold with the transgender stuff? Right, is because they are. It's almost perpetuating that kind of anxiety and that mental illness. And there's such a complete dissonance with what these kids are hearing at their household and have been raised in morals and values that maybe don't align with that. And there are households that maybe it does, that's fine, but those who it does not align with, which is the majority. I want to be very clear about that because I think people are sidestepping and tiptoeing around that the majority, that is not their morals and values and it sure as heck, isn't the morals and values that mom and dad are cut out of the discussion and the equation, and what does that do for a child? Innately, that dissonance that's created Right.
Speaker 2:And so when you talk about options or the exact mechanics, you also have so many options. Now it's crazy whether it be online fully, like I call it all in one right, especially just to get you started. I'm not a fan of all in one. It's not quality, it really isn't, and the reason I say that is it's because it's school at home, so it's not designed to hit your child where they're supposed to be, doesn't mean they're not going to get the information.
Speaker 2:It can be very wonderful as you get your rhythm, as you start to figure things out. You can either do books or online. And that's another thing I'm very strong on is there's too many screens. It truly changes. They've done functional MRIs. So much screen time changes brains, especially developing brains and kids' brains. They shouldn't be on screens like barely at all, and so when all of the learning is done that way.
Speaker 2:So there are definitely books and curriculum where it could just be all in one. You know, you can get your feet under you and start to learn your child and they're you know. Aside from that, oh my God, the quality of the curriculum out there is ridiculous. It's phenomenal for any child and the way they learn and key the parents, how the parents learn. That's a disconnect I see often when people come to me who've been homeschooling for a while and then come to me and need help or want help with, you know, high school or teens, and I don't know why this isn't working. This is a great curriculum and I said well, your child's telling you it's not. So it works for mom but it doesn't work for child. Right, that makes sense. But the mechanics of it are very different for every family. But there are some basics, right, and so, as you determine your rhythm, maybe you do book work on Mondays and Wednesdays, you know, and in Tuesdays you go to a local co-op and take some classes and talk to some kids or go to the park.
Speaker 3:What is a, what is a co-op and what do you do there? Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So I use co-op loosely, cause now you're getting a lot of a lot of terms right. You're getting micro schools and co-schools and all of that. So truly traditionally in the homeschool world, a co-op is when parents all come together. So multiple families will come together and Rachel will teach something, a class in her you know passion area Right, and other mom will do that. So it's kind of a all moms pitch in. We all try to, you know, do what we want as a group. Right In the world of homeschooling there are a couple of different kinds of co-ops.
Speaker 2:So that's a co-op, okay. What I teach like I actually have again trying to help people create more of these learning communities is what I call them. I have co-op in a box and what I teach is a different model that is sustainable. These things have been around for 30 plus years. We have multiple of them right in this area where you are hiring. So it's an organization of families that come together. Everybody pitches in, it's volunteer, nobody's getting paid. So there is that element, right, but families directly pay teachers to take their classes. So it's basically a group of families finding a space, usually a church, because they're available, coming together and saying, hey, we have maybe you're starting out and all the families that come together are K through four Great. We're going to find and we're going to put together phenomenal teachers that are paid because they deserve it.
Speaker 2:The, the. What they pay traditional private school teachers is criminal. If you knew that. I mean it is honestly I think it's disgusting what most traditional private schools, especially Christian educators, get paid. But think about what you're doing now too. You're allowing teachers who are passionate that's their thing, to do what they do best and what they love, right, come alongside you as parents because you're choosing what classes you want your children to go into. You get to choose. And in the meantime, by the way, all these families are hanging out together for the whole day, so you can come in as a parent, take one class and just hang the rest of the day to socialize, and parents need it as much as kids, right, it rejuvenates you. Homeschool moms are the best with information and networking and wanting to share, right. So traditionally, that's kind of a couple of models of co-op when you use that word in the homeschool world.
Speaker 2:Right Now, you're finding what are being called micro schools. Those are generally for profit, which there's nothing wrong with that, but I'm just saying those are for profit. Schools that are could be anything from one day, two days, five days, where there's a different kind of method or the way that they're teaching or meeting a specific need or niche. Or maybe it's just we just want to call it a micro school, to be blunt, because we don't it does. We don't want it to be a traditional private school, because some of the micro schools I mean really the way they're teaching it's one curriculum, just like you would in a traditional school. So micro schools have such a variance in them because people can name whatever they want Co-schools. That term came about very much in homeschooling world because they wanted to convey the impression and the understanding that even though you're dropping your child off here two days a week, we're schooling with you. So even though they're getting a bunch of their core with us maybe it's two days, maybe it's three days this is still us coming alongside you.
Speaker 2:We are co-schooling with you right To keep that really important, both from a practical standpoint but also to the heart of it, that you are the ones making that final decision on the grades and what you're seeing your child doing or whatever. Right. Does that make sense? So you've got that phrase out there. So co-schools tend to be one or two day, one to three days and drop off, right, and so that is needed, right. So there are so many needs. I'm going back to our discussion about the practicalities when parents have to work. You can find there are so many popping up all over. I can't even keep track.
Speaker 3:I would love to have anybody contact me, by the way, and email me. Yeah, what's a simple way to find those. Is it just a Google search?
Speaker 2:Google search. First of all, I say Google.
Speaker 3:Okay, great Highlighting brave here.
Speaker 2:But yeah, no, you can. No, it's hard to find them that way. But I would say, get into. As much as I also am not a huge fan of Facebook, that is still a primary resource. Like getting into groups and asking, hey, I live in this area. Like getting into you know some of the ones here like there's Northwest Illinois Homeschoolers group, right, or whatever and getting in there and just saying, hey, I live in this area, can anybody recommend this? What I'm looking for be as specific as you can and and get those. So anybody across the country, anybody who's watching this or listening to this, that you can do that. There are also homeschool organizations in every state that you can contact or go to their websites and see a list.
Speaker 2:Now, the downside about that is, for example, some of the organizations in our state. They're not maintained that well but, to their credit, things are changing and there are so many and they're volunteer organizations that it's hard to keep up. So that's where the combination I think of going to the resources of the groups in your state and then also kind of supplementing with Facebook, because you might find somebody who's calling it whatever they want to call it micro school, but it's focused on truly just nature hikes and they're still calling it micro school or whatever, or whatever age you're looking for, right? So there's a variety of people now really thinking outside the box and you can find everything from it's free we're just getting together and meeting together to do field trips or whatever or it takes a lot of work to organize all that, especially on a consistent basis.
Speaker 2:So you're finding some groups now where moms are saying, okay, it's free for now, but I will be starting to charge as we grow, as I develop a following. I'll start charging for my time, like just to be a part of the group for the year, like a membership fee, and then you can be a part of it. So you're seeing that coming about now too, and another great way to find that. And if anybody's considering homeschooling unfortunately we're at the end of the season now for homeschool conventions I highly recommend that. Now Let me caveat that it is overwhelming Again where I come in. I had so many people at the last convention coming over and said, okay, somebody said I should just come talk to you to just try to help focus me because I am so overwhelmed. There are 385 different vendors here.
Speaker 1:I'm like yes, absolutely.
Speaker 2:That's why I'm here. I'm happy to talk to you, let's talk your kids right. So I will throw that out there. It can be very overwhelming. However, again, if you're armed with my system, you can go in with a very targeted learning plan and really recharge by the workshops. So even if you're just considering homeschooling, please don't let it overwhelm you when you go into the vendor hall, go to the workshops that really speak to you and listen and have that be. Like I said, don't worry about the vendor hall, you can figure that out, we'll figure it out together. But that is another great resource, another really good resource. So our Illinois ones are over. There's a Christian Illinois Christian home educators who do one in June every year, but honestly, I'd even travel. So there's an organization called Great Homeschool Conventions that has some of the biggest ones all over. So if you're in Florida, fpea you know. I know you guys are getting started on your podcast, but if anybody's listening, that's a great resource.
Speaker 2:Heave in Virginia is amazing their annual convention. So wherever you are, you can find resources and go. And if you don't want to attend a Christian one like here, you don't really need to go to the one in your state. I'd go to one of the really larger ones. Ohio is usually in April. If you're in the Southwest, you've got a fabulous one coming up in Atlanta, if somebody happens to hear this and is there. Texas is a huge homeschool state. So many different homeschool conventions in Texas, california, and you could even travel and go to those. You're going to get really good information. Teach them diligently as a Christian one that has a lot of good vendors and a lot of good. If you are a Christian, so those are some resources for you too.
Speaker 3:if you're listening out here.
Speaker 2:And it's great to travel, sometimes with your family. Bring your kids, by the way. This is a family-friendly environment and they will have kids stuff too. So even if you're just considering homeschooling, that's a great thing to do, just to start kind of saying, okay, what am I really getting myself into? And it also opens your eyes to the thousands of people. There were 17,000 attendees at the Florida one Wow.
Speaker 1:That's big.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's a lot more popular than you think. Yeah, I actually wanted to, cause you mentioned your system. I'm very curious about, like, what your system is and if you could just talk about that and just kind of break it down for us.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, absolutely. So my philosophy and this was born out of my own homeschooling experience and all of the trial and error that I had with okay, that curriculum is not working. For example, I thought I found this very good curriculum for math. I liked it so much better and I would say, probably the third day I look over and let me caveat this my daughter really did not like math, still does not like math arithmetic, I should say. And my daughter very quiet, and she's looking down at her math book and tears are running down her cheeks. I said, oh, honey, you know what's wrong. You're like I know you don't particularly like math. Would you like me to help? Is it hard? And she just looked at me. She goes no, it's not hard, mommy, but there's no color.
Speaker 2:That never entered my brain to look for some, and I should have known my daughter is currently a UX UI graphic designer for okay, and I knew she was so creative since she was born and did that, but it didn't dawn on me that it just didn't register. There was no color. So even that right and really understanding our kids, there was so much trial and error for me. And but I dipped into my leadership background and I love leadership and have done a lot of that and I started to say, okay, when I'm seeing all of this going on, what? What is really the crux and the core of why we're homeschooling? And it's the character and the kind of people that we want our children to be. We live in the information age. They're going to find information, but the key is do they know what to do when they get it and how can they be critical thinkers and discern truth? Okay, and so when my husband and I did that, I started by going all right, let's get to the basics. So one of the first things I did before we decided to homeschool is step number one in my system Happy to give this out there, because I think every family should be doing this, no matter what decision they're making is to define what a good education means to you and your family. We all say we want our child to have a good education. Great, I said it too. But I challenged myself and I went what do I exactly mean by that? You know my husband, tim. I said okay, what? What is that to you? We need to be on the same page here. So, define a good education. And so my first steps are all centered around family values, defining that and building that foundation for your family first, because then the next thing happens where you're homeschooling and let me tell you, it can get really overwhelming and it can get lonely, right, it can get lonely if you're the one doing it and you're thinking, oh my God, I'm ruining my children. And you know it's hard, it can be very hard. But when the overwhelm hits, I say go back to your family's core values, go back to. And so I have a process and I help you to walk through and do that. Okay, then I do there.
Speaker 2:I've vetted a lot of learning style tests, so it includes learning style tests. And also, well, when I work one-on-one with clients, there are two different personality tests, but one of them is very difficult to. There are so many facets to it. It's based Myers-Briggs, so one-on-one I do, I use that, but in the system that's coming out self-paced. Anybody could do it. Because I want it to be affordable. I want people to be able to do this. I use a different personality model. That can be, and I love it because it can go all the way down to four. Most personality tests are all geared towards I would say 12, 13 and up. You're not going to get any accurate information for young kids. This organization I've been working with and was trained my husband and I well before we started homeschooling, even before we had kids, because I felt it was so important to have that right in my teams, important to have that right in my teams. So it incorporates personality tests and not just for your kids, but all parents need to be taking all this too.
Speaker 2:So that's where the family learning plan comes in. And then taking that information, all of that different information, you can narrow down tremendously the I don't know probably a thousand different curriculums. That's the other thing that's exploding is people throwing out and doing their curriculum here and there and you can really narrow it down. I'm a curriculum junkie so I truly. Last year I didn't like have a table or booth or anything at conventions, but I attended the several of the largest conventions in the country and literally visited every single vendor so that I could get a feel for again okay, what's out there.
Speaker 2:And that way the overwhelm does not, does not take over, right, because so many people stop homeschooling because it doesn't work, for whatever reason. But a lot of the reason is mom gets overwhelmed because, like, this curriculum isn't working and the ones they choose? Because they went on Facebook and said, hey, what's a good curriculum for a fourth grader? I it. It breaks my heart.
Speaker 2:I know homeschool moms are well-meaning and I love that, but there are about five questions you need to ask before, so you will never see me answering that if I can help it. If there's more specifics in there and I happen to be on. I will try to help as much as I can, but it is useless to get on there because then all these well meaning homeschool moms know what worked for their child and go Saxon math is great. Oh, saxon math is a kiss of death for most kids, but there are so many because it looks like school and moms are comfortable with it. They're going to use it right and it worked for their one child or one of their children Does that make sense.
Speaker 2:So my system is designed to not only help eliminate that overwhelm and give you some more narrow choices and again it's a rhythm thing and it's a getting to know yourself and your child but it creates a much more focused options for you. And prior to that, what's I think is more important is really helping to build a foundation as a family and build those relationships, which is really what you know homeschooling is all about you know, yeah, so you're taking.
Speaker 3:so let me just kind of recap that it sounds like you're taking. Like these we can do personality tests for even your kids as young as four, and you can take the results from that from mom, dad, kids and put that into learning style tests for all kids.
Speaker 2:Okay, and then?
Speaker 3:put that into a curriculum, these handful of curriculums that kind of match up, Yep, I mean it's. It sounds very logical again Like very personalized.
Speaker 2:That was my, that was my goal, because I needed that for mine. I remember four kids in four years and all of them are so different.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I would say even our two girls are very different in their interests and, like when you said the color thing, I was like I feel like that's Scarlett. Scarlett is so into art and coloring pictures and that sort of thing that I could see that being a little bit of a barrier for her potentially, Whereas Layla, I think, is a little more traditional in the way that she learns and operates so far. You know she turns three tomorrow, so we'll see, but I love it.
Speaker 2:I love it they're so different?
Speaker 1:I guess is the point and their interests and how they learn, are, it's already apparent, those differences?
Speaker 2:yeah right, you probably noticed it from birth. Yeah, right it's. It's amazing, isn't it so different?
Speaker 1:yeah, you think you got sleep figured out, but you gotta have another one. Then you're like, okay, this doesn't work for this child, right? Oh my gosh, that's so true, we figured out really early, going off a little bit of a tangent, but but the love languages of our kids.
Speaker 2:They're so, oh, I love but, it became.
Speaker 1:After I read the book for a second time, it became so apparent to me. I'm like okay, my second child is very much a physical touch child, like that's how she's comforted, that's how she feels safe, that's how she wants to go to sleep, whereas our other child child.
Speaker 3:She has more quality time, but she's also the kid who's like you can go now. You know, like I, I want to be alone now and please, and I need my space.
Speaker 2:Like, yes, like they're just so different and they're so young to have that.
Speaker 1:I think awareness innate, yeah, it's innate. But I wanted to ask you we haven't talked about yet kids who may be really into athletics or into school activities, and I feel like that is a big barrier, at least something we talk about a lot, but for other families too, of like. Well, I played on the football team, or I was a part of drama, or I really loved being in choir at school. Why would I not want to have my kid be a part of something like that?
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:Band right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, marching band or something at a football game? Yeah, right, exactly, again, that is a state by state and community, by community response. But in general, there are all of those things you just mentioned, including proms, homecomings, like big dances, huge dances, right, but I do understand that, so I can hit sports first. That's a big thing in my family, right, and that was a thing we thought about, because our especially our youngest, again, all of our kids are different, but all of our kids were athletes, but two of them were considering and wanting to play in college, right, and so that's a different level. And one thing I want to say to encourage families out, there is literally every sport. You know, there's travel football. Now, I did not know that yes there is Okay.
Speaker 2:Now, I'm not encouraging that fee and cost and whatever, but for those families who are considering sports and thinking about sports, the scouts are all at the travel games and tournaments, not at the schools.
Speaker 2:Yes, so number one so for that level athlete now maybe it's just I want to be a part of a team. Yeah, well, there are so many homeschool sports teams. It's crazy. For example, actually our kids started, we're on the first. They didn't start it. They were on the very first homeschool baseball team here in Illinois. We played. Now there's challenges there, especially in Illinois, because they're trying to keep that out. Now you can do it, no problem, because you play private schools. But we also played very high level high schools. Now they can't officially play us, doesn't matter, they need scrimmages and for us, heck, yeah, it's part of our you know record and everything that we're doing. So, for example, we played Lake Zurich high school, beat him in one game, lost another but, they went to like States that year.
Speaker 2:So the quality. So I also want to throw that out there. You can if you start looking and asking. There are so much of that out there and all the way down levels now. So, for example, in Northern Illinois there are multiple sports organizations that you can be involved in track, cross track and field, soccer, volleyball, football, baseball. Well, baseball we need to. We need to step it up. Basketball, tons of basketball.
Speaker 2:My son, they won their second division down in a national basketball tournament at Liberty University. They played on the court at Liberty, the main stadium at Liberty. When we were in the baseball team we went to the and you just go to it. It's not like you qualify. But we went to a World Series in Florida because it's better. Competition from all over the country. We're scouts everywhere. Competition from all over the country. We're scouts everywhere. Okay, so the quality of the sports, but even if you, if it's just hey, I want my kids to be a part of it. There are park district teams everywhere. My kids were involved in park district sports just like any other child in school. That's where they get their sports. You don't have to be at a travel level. So I wanted to start at the cause. That's really where the concern comes in usually from families, right?
Speaker 2:Yeah, here's the other thing. There are often times depending on the state you live in and where you are in. Illinois is very individualized by school district, so you could play for your school.
Speaker 1:So that's what I've heard. I actually learned that from my sister. We were from Iowa. She said that after COVID she said after COVID that there were a lot of kids who ended up becoming homeschooled, but then they continued to play sports at the school, so they would come in, or they came in like just for gym. You know they'd come up for like a piece of the day.
Speaker 2:You can come in for some other curriculum, yeah, which was you know, you don't think about that.
Speaker 1:There's so many different ways to do it, so many different ways to make it work.
Speaker 2:Correct, correct. And if you want your child to be a part of something, for instance, one family that I've worked with for many years their oldest, really amazing soccer player and truly wanted to be a part of the high school is very good team and want it and they wanted that, right. But they also really don't want a lot of the indoctrination things that are happening right now. Right, so we work together. Okay, great, going in for weight training and PE, and I think chose to go in for language or something, right, where they vetted they were like okay this we're good with Right Great and he's been doing that for two years now and it's been good.
Speaker 2:But the other academics are covered by going to co-ops or like a tutor or doing self-paced online classes. Some kids are really great at that right Cause they get more motivated. There are a variety of ways to be a part of it. And then you just have to again in here in Illinois it's very everybody says it's school district by school district, and then you just have to again in here in Illinois it's very everybody says it's school district by school district. And I'm going to challenge that because of my own experience with families. It's actually school by school, because if your child is very good at a sport, they may want you there.
Speaker 2:Just saying, just saying just saying just saying and yeah, you might hit a wall. Sometimes you might hit a wall depending on the school district, but you pay taxes and again I want to empower parents that you pay taxes and you have access.
Speaker 2:However, the way it is here, the way the law is, public schools have to allow private schoolers into the extracurriculars if there is room. So here in Illinois that's how they can be, that's why it can be just a total judgment call, is what they say. If there's room, right. So that's why, just to throw that out, so everybody understands the process.
Speaker 3:That's an interesting loophole.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you never know, it could just be the relationship too, like even in elementary school you'd go in and have orchestra. But I want to encourage you. There's even an amazing band here in Illinois. It's called the Northwest Suburban Band. They're incredible. They've been invited to play at the White House numerous times. They've been around for 35 years. So again, it's not this new. A new like hey, cause of COVID. There's so many kids. If you can't afford, you can get an instrument You're just like in school they have. They're just an amazing organization and that's a. I'm just using that as an example because of where we are. But that's true in so many States, especially if you're living in a, in a big homeschool state. And here's the thing what's really cool about growing the homeschool community is people like you guys, me, parents. It's not there. Hey, let's create it Right. Our girls want to. Our girls want to play softball Awesome man, I was a softball coach. I love it. Why don't we throw it out there? See who's interested? Start talking to park districts and using their fields. Maybe there's somebody on the team who has a huge backyard Awesome practice space. So it opens up.
Speaker 2:Talking about your entrepreneurial mindset. That's what that is. It's critical thinking at its best. Solve the problem. That's what critical thinking really is. Critical thinking at its best, solve the problem. That's what critical thinking really is Right. And I get, yes, exactly Resourceful. And if you haven't told you, like I start getting into this and I'm going to just keep talking and talking about it, because I get so excited because when you bring people together, everybody right has so much to offer each other so you can come up with solutions and changes. And that's how we can create a parallel education system and really meet everybody's needs.
Speaker 2:I, you know, I'd love to walk into a community, whether it be a large, like neighborhood, like you guys are in, and just say, all right, everybody, come together. Like you guys are in, and just say, all right, everybody, come together. What resources do you have? Let's lay it out. What are the ages of your kids? Okay, great. Anybody know of a church that's open, like we? We have needs here. There's about 20 kids who need five day drop off. There's all right. Now let's create an education plan for your community. Let's figure that out. You can do so many different things. It's incredible and especially if we talk and come together and have that, I mean wow, the the ideas that that come out of people when we all come together and it doesn't matter who gets the credit right, yeah.
Speaker 3:We're just all in the same place for I want to point out some of the resources that you brought here. Um you brought a number of books and why don't you, why don't? You kind of go into what some of these are and if there's any recommendations for any listener.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm happy to. So for the history of education stuff that we were talking about, I highly recommend these books. Crimes of the Educators is phenomenal. This one, this version, alex Newman, just absolute, incredibly knowledgeable on the history. Has interviewed some people, like a woman named Charlotte Isserby spelled I-S-B-E-R-Y-T. Highly recommend her. Look her up on YouTube. She was the senior policy advisor for education. Going back to our discussion on education for Ronald Reagan which, by the way, even though the Department of Education was created under Jimmy Carter, ronald Reagan, one of his platform running elements was I'm going to abolish that because it's unconstitutional.
Speaker 2:And we all know how that ended, and Charlotte Isserby was his senior policy advisor on education and wrote to him very directly immediately saying all this stuff is going on, it's not cool and we need to abolish this, like you said.
Speaker 1:Didn't they attempt an assassination on him?
Speaker 2:Yes, 1981, outside the Washington Hilton. So did he say that before or after his attempt at assassination? Before, during his campaign? It was during his campaign.
Speaker 2:The first Secretary of education was William Bennett and I didn't bring that book. I wish I'd thought of it that I highly recommend to parents and another resource. He was the first secretary of education and he asked to be released. I read his book about that thick on his observations and his experience, and he went to Reagan and said this is a mess. I had no idea the lock that the national education teachers union has on our education system. We're in a lot of trouble and this isn't a federal thing and if you're not going to close it down, I need to leave.
Speaker 2:And he then became, and what he's known for is being our first drug czar. So Reagan created that for him so he could leave the Department of Education and Charlotte Isserby was still in there and this is her book. I love to get the dumbing down, the deliberate dumbing down of America, but you can get all this online because her son, now that she's passed away she just didn't pass away too long ago Her son has put all of this information online because he wants everybody to have it, and it is.
Speaker 1:Does she have a bunch of YouTube videos. Okay, I'm like I know her name. Why do I know her name?
Speaker 2:A bunch of YouTube videos, and now this is a very dense read, okay, but for people who want to know like it is documented because she literally has the documents and the memos- and so on and so forth.
Speaker 2:Okay, okay. So, just again by way of educating ourselves and for people who were actually there I was not, and so Alex Newman and Samuel Blumenfeld, take a lot of this information as well and bring it, bring it to light. And then, thomas soul, this was written I think it was the eighties, if if I remember correctly his book. I've read I had this, my second one, no in 1993, so it was you know a good what?
Speaker 2:30 years ago now, he wrote this book inside american education the decline, the deception, the dogmas, okay, and it is powerful, very powerful, and he is he's very blunt, just like john John Taylor Gatto, in the direction our education system going and why right. So those are some good resources. This is the original that I showed you earlier, the original underground history, what you're going to find out there now. John Taylor Gatto and his son and someone else were trying to take this and put it into volumes and they got volume one completed and then he passed away. So this one, if you can find it, this is the one you want. It's got all of the information in here and again, it's dense, but it is pretty incredible, like here look at the Prussian Connection, okay. So it really it's an incredible in-depth book. It's my second copy that I show.
Speaker 2:So these are really good to dig into history of education or get some information. Alex Newman also has amazing videos out there. He's just a wealth of knowledge. Here are some when we're talking about like mindset or these authors or these books kind of hit different people. But really that unschooling or de-schooling that we were talking about, right, and that information you've got. Blake Bowles is incredible and he's very much that unschooling mindset all the way through high school. But he really opens up your mind to the possibilities and what can happen when your child takes ownership of their own education, which was a goal for my husband and I.
Speaker 2:Now personally, we also felt that we wanted our children also to know how to communicate well in writing and verbally to be able to make their way in the world to the level that they wanted. So, like when I work with families or I will offer this, like in my high school webinars and stuff, I recommend starting at the earliest age. Talk to your kids, have them involved, let them take a look at the this curriculum or this curriculum. What do you like? Oh, let's look at it. Why do you like that? Why do you not like that early, early on? Like this is a, this is their education. Start empowering your kids to think of it that way. This is not something they're being forced to do. Oh yes, it is. When they're going to school, they have to go to school. Think about how many times we've all said that, well, you have to go to school. Today, you have to really. So I didn't realize how much my brain needed to be changed.
Speaker 2:You know another quick story that goes right along with this my son. The first year we were homeschooling he was eight and I said hey, timmy, you need to come and do your math now. And he just kind of looked at me and not really challenging, he just goes why, mommy? And I went that's a good question. And I said what do you want to do? He goes I want to go outside and play. I'm like great idea, let's all go outside and play, you know. So I bring my four-year-old to my eight-year-old outside. We play forever and we come back in.
Speaker 2:It's lunchtime. Everybody's hungry. I'm fixing lunch. Timmy comes in the kitchen and goes hey, mommy, I did four pages instead of two, is that okay? Oh, my gosh, I was trying not to cry because this was early on in homeschooling. And I go honey, that's great he goes. Can I do some more? I go, you do as much as you want.
Speaker 2:Blew me away, but it helped that that was a huge paradigm shift for me and that I needed to be more intentional about empowering my children that they want to learn that learning is life, that they want to learn that learning is life. We want lifelong learners, we want to love to learn and continually learn, right, and so that's the kind of mindset shift. So I kind of brought some books that will help open up your mind to that. Any of Blake Bowles' books are phenomenal, right, and this one is the Case. Why Are you still sending your kids to school? The case for helping them leave, chart their own paths and prepare for adulthood at their own pace, right, great, this one too wonderful. Finding everyday magic in homeschool learning and life. The brave learner right Is a great one, really hitting a lot of the outdoors and trying to really understand, especially for certain personalities and for boys. And a lot of the outdoors and trying to really understand, especially for certain personalities and for boys, and a lot of people don't know this.
Speaker 2:Biologically, male brains are different than female brains, so male brains have more white matter, which is a connective tissue and female brains have more gray matter. Well, think about that. How many times do we say brains have more gray matter? Well, think about that. How many times do we say can't get the boys to sit down? So, oh, by the way, let's drug them. No, it's because that's how they learn best they should be moving. Another tip every parent out there should get a rebounder mini trampoline for their household. Kid you not? Have it front and center, all ages, all ages, all the way up. Have it front and center, all ages, all ages, all the way up.
Speaker 2:Right, my boys would sit and bounce and we do spelling words and their brains, because once the connective tissue is engaged, then the gray matter works better. It's just, it's biological right and so that kind of thing like get outside, reconnect with the nature, and so this one is wonderful for that call of the wild and free, I say, and you could say plus it's funny Some people say that but reclaiming wonder in your child's education. So all of these are really geared towards that mindset. That's why I wanted to bring these, because and there's so many wonderful books out there, if I you know.
Speaker 2:So I already brought a pile but, it really helps you to open up your mind to what's possible, right and what can be for your family and your child. It really is a lifestyle and a complete different lifestyle and, no matter the struggles we went through or anything that we've done, we could not have made a better decision for our family. Personally, as difficult as that was and as kicking and screaming as I went into, and all of my kids. By the way, for all of you parents out there who have children with IEPs, 504s, all those lovely governmental, you know, numbers that are attached, but truly your child is learns differently.
Speaker 2:Traditional education is designed to meet about 20 to 25% of the population. So what happens to the other 75 to 80%? They're told they are different, they can't learn. That's the subliminal message that comes in they're stupid, they're different, they can't know, they're just learn differently. Right, and ADHD comes up a lot. So I brought one more resource with you with me. That is wonderful. There's two versions. So smart but scattered is phenomenal for a resource for any parents, whatever you're going through for ADHD, and there's actually one specifically for teens. So helping them to build like executive functioning skills. This is a great resource. They're wonderful to help you kind of navigate that as well, but there are so many curriculum out there too, exactly for neurodiverse kids, that can help you to really tailor your child's education and help them to thrive and be the best versions of themselves, which is what we all want, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:It looks like we are getting to iPhone storage full on a couple of these.
Speaker 2:I don't even know how long we've been talking, yeah.
Speaker 3:No, it's been an awesome. This has been an awesome conversation.
Speaker 2:I'm so sorry, I can totally go. No, this is, this is amazing.
Speaker 3:Leslie, so sorry, I can totally go. No, this is amazing, leslie. Thank you so much for coming on. We actually we usually wrap up our shows with you know, kind of like biggest takeaways of the conversation. I mean we just had, we just spent two hours with you, which was which was amazing.
Speaker 3:You taught us like so much and actually a huge takeaway for me is just there is so much history that is there in which you brought a lot of light to, and you have resources, that for those that aren't really sure of the history of the education system and kind of the dogmas or the things that are going on behind the curtain, you know there's, there's a lot of things that parents can be informed about, and I think it goes back to COVID for me, where it was. We wanted informed consent about vaccines and just what was going on there and it's kind of spiraled into. Well, we want informed consent with our children's education too, and I think that you brought up some really great points about that. And then, also, just recognizing that there's so much popularity, you talked about these conventions. I didn't even know about those conventions right.
Speaker 3:You think homeschooling is just such a, you know, really small. It's only, there's only a handful of people that do it and you know, it can't really be successful with it.
Speaker 3:I don't know why I have that mindset, but I think it's probably just majority of people have that type of mindset. But there's so many resources out there now and again with this, with the unveiling of the curtain of a big event happening like that and now just people being more interested, clearly there's resources and there's people like you that advocate, and when you speak about it, there's like so much passion behind your voice too, which really helps really helps.
Speaker 3:So I mean that's. There's a lot there, but those are like my huge takeaways about you, rach.
Speaker 1:Well, I'm going to share two if that's okay. So I think my biggest takeaway that I had the first time that I heard you speak was similar to what you were saying and that I always had, like these preconceived notions or myths about homeschooling that there wasn't a lot of socialization.
Speaker 1:You're really small, kind of isolated, and I don't know, just those little myths that I had just always thought, and you really debunked those for me and opening my eyes to saying, well, no, like, actually there's all these groups that you can connect with and oh by the way homeschooling is not just sitting at your home doing school, it's you just being out in the community like a normal person and your kids are learning that and you're the mentor for them and learning, and so it's really like you've got this huge opportunity to teach them life skills and education and critical thinking skills and follow their passions truly and you have the ability to foster that.
Speaker 1:So that was kind of like my biggest takeaway is you're not stepping away from sports or socialization or homecomings or any of that, all that still exists. And then this time, what I want, jason and I, to step away with and do is what is a good education?
Speaker 2:That's an amazing, thought-provoking question right, Everyone says it what a good education. Well, what does that even mean?
Speaker 1:That's my takeaway from today is that's my homework. We're going to define what that means for you and me.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean we talk about critical thinking a lot on our show because that's a huge thing for us, because you can just you know there's narratives that are pushed and you are forced to believe that narrative because you hear it over and over and over again and it can be the biggest lie, but if they keep lying to you, you will eventually believe it Correct, right. And so there's critical thinking that needs to happen and it's what's being told to me. How do I kind of peel back the onion a little bit?
Speaker 1:Yep.
Speaker 3:And to make some informed decisions on this is what's best for me and my family. Here's the, here's the actual narrative that I'm coming up with. And again, those critical thinking skills and you hit on it a big time and I don't know. Good education for me is being able to have that skillset and whatever that include that in your definition.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that was a big part of ours as well. Yeah, well, if those are your takeaways, that's awesome. I mean seriously, that's amazing, because you guys, you guys hit it, hit it on the head, right, is that? Empowerment and informed consent, like we've talked about, is huge. Yeah, so that's great. That's great. My okay, my job's done.
Speaker 1:Well, I love it. So if somebody wanted to get in contact with you, what would be the best way for someone to do that?
Speaker 2:The best way to do that is to go to my website and there's a schedule, a call button. Now, that's very limited with my time but I do try to give time to anyone who wants to schedule a call. I'll do what I can in that half hour for you. Or you can contact us at hello, at aspire educationus and it's double E in the middle to spell out aspire education and you can ask to have me come and speak. Like put together a small group. I really love to try to inform and try to just educate, answer questions. So if you want to put together a group at your church, if you want to put together a group in your neighborhood, I'm more than happy to reach out to me. I am happy to come and do kind of the presentation Rachel originally saw or tailor it to whatever information that you need. So those are the two best ways to contact us. Yeah, to contact me, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2:And then you can take a look at the website and see what else is there, and what we offer.
Speaker 3:We'll link your website and all these books that you brought as well as great resources for people.
Speaker 2:That's great, that's awesome. Yeah, okay, thank you Well. Thank you, leslie. Thank you so much for coming on my pleasure.
Speaker 3:And for all the listeners. If you found any value in this, please share the show. We want to get this message out because we think that Leslie is an expert in this.
Speaker 2:Well, I don't know if I should say expert, that word, yeah, I'm not like. I don't like that word.
Speaker 3:Actually, I'm going to take that back.
Speaker 2:I'm not going to that you're a leader in this space?
Speaker 3:Yeah, well, thank you Cause I think that I think that's very clear is that you're a leader in this space.
Speaker 1:Thank you.
Speaker 3:And and I think that you have a lot of messages that should be spread. So please share the show and thank you for listening, and we'll catch you on the next one.
Speaker 2:Thank you.