Real Life Investing With Jason & Rachel Wagner

52. Unpacking Our Conservative Values And Where They Came From

• Jason & Rachel Wagner

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Can one thrive as a conservative in a sea of liberal ideology? Embark on a journey with us, Rachel and Jason Wagner, as we unravel our personal narratives of embracing conservative beliefs while living in the predominantly Democratic state of Illinois. We'll peel back the layers of our political evolution, shaped by our unique backgrounds—Rachel's intriguing childhood conversations with her grandfather, a Democratic mayor, and Jason's eye-opening political awakening post college. 

Our final segment explores the crucial role of education in shaping political perspectives. We'll recount personal experiences of navigating political discussions within family settings, emphasizing the necessity of fostering critical thinking and exposing children to diverse viewpoints. From the challenges of racial discussions in educational institutions to the impact of diversity and inclusion initiatives in the workplace, we tackle these sensitive topics head-on. Our episode concludes with a candid discussion on the evolving understanding of gender and societal norms, inviting parents to actively engage with their children in complex conversations, ensuring a balanced and comprehensive worldview for the next generation.

Speaker 1:

Welcome back to another episode of the Real Life Investing Podcast with Jason and Rachel Wagner. Today we are going into how we became conservative in our politics. Does that sound like a fun topic to talk about? Sure, sure, why, why just sure? Sure, why not like?

Speaker 2:

yeah, that sounds amazing well, I mean, I think I obviously already know where ours roots, but it would be an interesting conversation to have with other people and where the root of their yeah, you kind of wonder like uh, how, how did we get to the mindset that we have?

Speaker 1:

Considering we currently live in Illinois very democratic state. We're no longer in the city of Chicago, which is very, very democratic. As you get outside of the city of Chicago into the suburbs, it becomes more Republican. If you were to look at a map of like how the state votes, majority of the state is red but Chicago is very blue blue and so over it illinois always falls left yeah, I wouldn't say it's more republican out here, but but yeah, there's a presence yeah, yeah, there's, there's, there's.

Speaker 1:

Certainly, as you go into more rural areas, you know, you just have a little bit more conservatism, yeah, which makes sense, all right. So so, rachel, but you grew up in in iowa. Tell me a little bit about like. I mean, I'll just put it this way you knew, you knew politics way before I ever did. I was in college and I didn't know the difference between a democrat and a republican um but you had a very different upbringing, and why don't you like talk about that?

Speaker 2:

I'm just laughing because that's very true. Jason did not know the difference between a democrat and a republican no, nobody told me, nobody taught me isn't it kind of interesting that? I mean, I met you I guess it was your sophomore year, but this conversation probably came about my senior or your junior year and you still didn't know that. So your junior year and you still didn't know that. So third year of college and you still don't know the difference. Isn't that kind of interesting?

Speaker 1:

Oh, I was over 20 years old. I mean, I might have been 21 and I didn't know.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

That's interesting. But to answer your question, I mean I don't feel like I grew up in an overly politicized household or family or anything like that.

Speaker 1:

But I did grow up, I mean your. Your grandfather was the mayor of leclerc, so you had politics in your family that's true.

Speaker 2:

That's true, he's democrat, though which is very interesting yeah, yeah, so my grandpa was mayor of leclerc, I think, for a total of 18 years. But split, split 10 years, I believe in the 80s, and then another eight years later on like in my early, early adulthood years. So yeah, that's a good point.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, okay. Well, even though you had a Democrat in your family, you do not identify as a Democrat. And why is that?

Speaker 2:

I mean. My answer to this for so many years was just you know, I am more conservative on the economy, on foreign policy, but I think I'm also more moderate on on some social programs not certainly not all of them, but give me an example of why what you mean when you're conservative on the economy and foreign policy.

Speaker 1:

What does that mean?

Speaker 2:

so I am smaller government, meaning less government spending, looser restrictions on corporate america, because I believe what creates jobs is not the government, but actually capitalism and companies. I think when you loosen the tax restrictions on companies, they are incentivized to create more jobs, and that is what creates a thriving economy. I think when you have bigger government so more government oversight, more government spending companies tighten their belt, they cut jobs because they have stricter things to adhere to and, as a result, unemployment goes up, wages remain flat or don't grow either. So yeah, does that make sense?

Speaker 1:

yeah, yeah, that was a better answer than I thought you were going to give. Honestly, if you were to ask me, like you know, those types of questions, I probably would be able to dance around it. But that was a better answer than I thought you were going to give. Honestly, if you were to ask me those types of questions, I probably would be able to dance around it, but that was actually pretty well delivered. Like okay, that makes sense, but on the foreign policy part, what does that mean? That was the economic stand front.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so I have always, up until more recently I think, my views on this I mentioned this in a previous podcast my views on this are becoming a little bit more unsure.

Speaker 2:

I think we need to protect that above all else, because without having a strong, safe, secure, thriving American country, nothing else matters, and so I've always put that above. So, foreign policy wise, you know, ensuring this country is safe, this country isn't under attack, things aren't unstable or insecure in other areas of the world, because that just weakens the world's economy and, in essence, america. Now I would say, people who talk like that, I think, in my head start to ring a little bit too pro-war, like I used to, kind of like, really like Nikki Haley and I think this last election cycle, every time she talked I just kept hearing war, war, war, war, war. And I'm not a war hungry person, I don't believe or support that but I do believe america should be first, or the last remaining true, true, remaining free democracy in the world. And without protecting that, those freedoms, that constitution, once it's gone, it's gone. You're not getting it back so okay, all right.

Speaker 1:

So then your view on the war in Ukraine. Just curious. I mean, we actually need to go back to how we got to this point, but now, I'm just diving into a little bit into the mindset of Rachel here. So the viewpoint on the war in Ukraine obviously hot topic. Do you support US troops going to Ukraine?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, that's a complex answer. I think, Historically, in my historical viewpoint, being conservative, strong on foreign policy my answer would 100% be yes, that it's the obligation of America to protect the Ukrainian people and that country's sovereignty and to not let communism rule in other nations because it weakens the rest of the world and America. I will say more recently, I guess it's not that I'm questioning America's response, so to say, but more so how those things are actually starting. I think I am very much questioning who the puppet master is to this stuff. I don't believe these things are occurring naturally, of just Putin making a decision and invading Ukraine.

Speaker 2:

I think there's a lot more complexity to the issue and I think there's a lot that the US could have done to prevent those tensions from worsening, Kamala Harris being one of them. You know, talking about Ukraine being a part of NATO is probably one of the dumbest things that she could have done. So that just goes to show her ignorance in foreign policy. But do I think that that was probably a bit purposeful? I do. I think the difference between how I used to think, you know, a few years back, than how I think now is that war is so profitable, and I think that the leaders in Washington have their hands in these defense companies and in these overseas affairs, that it is actually profitable for them to get themselves into, or to get the US into these conflicts. So to support that. When you ask me if I support the war in Ukraine, I think it's very complicated to give my answer right On the surface yes.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so like okay, right. So when you start kind of diving into well, that's a money-driven thing, but how do politicians get paid to get us into these conflicts or to want to support a war in which you're saying could be a financial benefit, like, can you walk through that whole web?

Speaker 2:

no, I mean, I think it's way more complex than anybody can really comprehend, and I don't think of the person to explain it, but from a I guess.

Speaker 1:

For one thing, politicians are allowed to trade stocks. This is very like n like Nancy Pelosi does this all the time, but her husband is a day trader, or you know. I don't know if he's a day trader, but he's a trader and runs a big portfolio. And when you are in power and you make legislation or you steer some type of event to occur and you are have ownership of companies that might benefit from that type of event to occur and you are have ownership of companies that might benefit from that type of event, their stocks could rise, right. So Lockheed Martin is a defense contractor, publicly traded company, right? So unusual whales is uh, it's an Instagram, it's a Twitter, but they do a lot of interesting analysis on all of the people in politics and what they own, because you have to publicly display your ownership in any publicly traded company and you can see that a lot of people own these defense contractors.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, the people voting, so that just seems like a conflict of interest, doesn't it? The people voting on whether or not we invade certain areas, they send military support to suit. Yeah, so, that's so.

Speaker 1:

That's one way, that's one way that they could benefit, right, okay, what else you think that there's actually like ties to contractors, like they have agreements with these contractors that well, hey, now we're going into war and now you're going to increase all of your, or we're increasing the defense budget, now, all of a sudden, you know, are there kickbacks? Do you think that that kind of happens?

Speaker 2:

or yes, I think kickbacks occur.

Speaker 1:

Yeah for sure people to vote a certain way in which those special interest lobbyists are the ones that are responsible for potentially big donations for somebody's candidacy. So just all ways that people could be manipulated to, even if they don't want to support a war, but they do because there's financial interest. I love your faces every time that we talk about this stuff. I just don't understand why you're like so. It's like you're skating on ice right now, like you're terrified of what I just said.

Speaker 2:

I'm not terrified. I just don't expect sometimes the level of in-depth question of me, so I need to get better at asking you questions. By all means. This means an open dialogue, otherwise it's just like me on the spot, yeah.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, all right. Well, okay, cool. Well, I mean sometimes, when you say things like that, where it's like oh, I'm conservative on my foreign policy, well, what does that actually mean?

Speaker 2:

So that's why I'm asking. Yeah, that was a fair question.

Speaker 1:

That's all I'm asking is like, go into that. If I supported the war in ukraine, well, right, because that's a very that's a very big topic that is literally on the ballot right now. Right, and you have the republicans that that don't want a war. Trump wants to end the war.

Speaker 2:

He doesn't want it to go on, he wants to end yeah, and that, and that's what's been so interesting, I think, to see such a shift.

Speaker 1:

So, like we were talking earlier about, I'm sure, sure, democrats wanted to end too, but they want to do it in a different way. They want to do it in a way where they want to go to war with Russia. Exactly, and they want to give Ukraine all of the weapons and potentially I mean who knows Maybe they want to move troops into Ukraine and actually go to war with Russia.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, trump's the opposite way, ukraine and actually go to war with russia. Yeah, trump's the opposite way. Yeah, I mean, I don't think anybody is saying that directly, but I think that the steps and the moves that they take indirectly create that. And then they're like oh, look, see, now we have to like that. That's what's what biden did leading up to this entire conflict. Is there? There were so many times, I think, that he could have put an end to it, and he didn't. Instead, just they p he poked the bear and then like oh well, now we've got to stop. We've got to stop.

Speaker 1:

Putin? Yeah Well, they've always just painted him as the villain right and I mean at the end of the day, he did invade.

Speaker 2:

Yes.

Speaker 1:

But, as we've kind of learned, there's a long, long history that this wasn't an unprovoked war. That the media and the Democrats have always told us is that there have been years and years and years of the United States doing some things that they shouldn't have been doing, that was pressing the line, and so there's a lot of times where like this is a they call it a proxy war. It's because we're not actually the ones fighting Russia, but we've been manhandling Ukraine. We've been involved in Ukraine for a very long time and Russia is responding to that.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, because they feel threatened yeah.

Speaker 1:

And so it's once you start to kind of dissect, like, well, where did this all come from? Is it just this mean villain that's out there who's like, oh, I've got to conquer the whole world? Well, that's what they want you to believe, but it's a lot more complex than that.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and I think that that whole concept is something that's why I say like my thoughts have kind of changed is like historically, yeah, I just thought Russia, china, bad communists, you know, enemies of America. That's just how it is right. We're the good guys or the bad guys, and I think you know there's been plenty of I don't want to say evidence, but content that has come out that raises those questions a little bit more deeply right.

Speaker 2:

Like is Putin really unprovoked bad guy coming after Ukraine? Maybe he's a bad guy coming after Ukraine. Was he unprovoked? I don't think so. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, ukraine. Maybe he's a bad guy coming after ukraine. Was he unprovoked? I don't think so. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so the republicans just want to end the war. They want to just protect. They don't believe that they should be protecting other countries like that, not all republicans right, well, yeah, so, and this is where, like, nato is talking earlier.

Speaker 2:

It's like the, the party has shifted right big time and it's split.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it's split and trump wanted to get out of nato, and this is where we were talking earlier.

Speaker 2:

It's like the party has shifted right Big time and it's split. Yeah, it's split.

Speaker 1:

And Trump wanted to get out of NATO, right At one point. He wanted to get out of NATO because nobody was paying their fair share, right? And that's what it kind of always comes down to. At least for him is like here was the agreement and nobody is doing what they agreed to, right.

Speaker 2:

America's carrying all the weight.

Speaker 1:

Right, and so is that? Is that appropriate? No, so he's. So he's a guy that just wants to make sure that the deal is actually being upheld and if it's not, well then he's renegotiating things, and that's just the way Trump is, is that he renegotiates things? Okay, he also has a America first mindset. Well, we're going to build the strongest military and be able to defend ourselves, but we're not going to be defending other people's wars, especially if you're not meeting your agreement. So it's, it's a different mindset, for sure. So, anyways, well, that's, that was a fun discussion. So, anyways, well, that's, that was a fun discussion. But how did you get to all this? You did you grow up like talking politics in your house yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2:

So yeah, that was kind of like your original question. I would say by like middle school, we talked politics in my house and specifics, because I mean, basically, after what was it seventh grade for me when 9-11 happened? You know that was a hugely historic day to be at school and watching this happen and like be old enough to you know, know what was occurring, but not really old enough to like decipher how and why and how we came about that. So we went home with a ton of questions and even at school there's a ton of questions being happened. So that, I think, was probably the start of the conversation. But from there it led into just so much American history, world history. I think I came home one time and I made some kind of comment about George Bush and my stepdad was like wait, wait, stop right there, we need to have a conversation. Then we had conversation and then from there we were always talking politics. We still talk politics to this day yeah, so it was.

Speaker 1:

It was very openly discussed in your household yeah, it wasn't forceful either there was a lot of like well, what do you think this?

Speaker 2:

or what do you think about this? You know you choose and then I choose, and then he'd be like okay, well then, that is reflective of this party's views, not this party's views so that and that is how.

Speaker 1:

So basically, you came home from school learning some of these things. You tell him what you learn and then he would give like, okay, yeah, no accurate, or well, you also don't know about this side of the thing yeah it.

Speaker 2:

It'd be like well, have you considered this thought?

Speaker 1:

Why did?

Speaker 2:

this happen. Why this? Came about and what each party thought about it and then yeah.

Speaker 1:

I mean, that certainly shapes your mindset a little bit. And also, if you think about it from the parent's perspective, it's kind of like hey, I don't know exactly what they're being taught in school, but we can come home and we can discuss it in almost a way of him giving making sure that you know his side of things. And I think this is where I wanted this conversation to go is that if you don't have those kind of counter discussions with children about what they could be learning in school, you're leaving their whole mind and their whole shape of how they view the world up to the educator and you're not having the chance to help them think about ways. That maybe you think about things, whether your ways are right or wrong, but at least you have a chance to help them think about things. Whether your ways are right or wrong, but at least you have a chance to help them think about things from your perspective.

Speaker 1:

And if your perspective is the way that they teach it in school, then you know, then chances are that child is probably going to learn the same exact thing and you're going to be okay with it and that's going to continue to flourish and you're going to be like all right, johnny knows exactly what happened in the world, but we all know that there's two sides of every story and if one side of the story is always being told and the other side of the story is not, then those people are always going to think that one side of the story was accurate. And what have we learned kind of recently is that the education field, especially as you go into colleges and universities, is dominated by democratic professors. So it was Elon Musk that just shared this big chart that literally showed you the percentage of college education or college professors, and where they lean politically.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and so, and we have talked about this so much from our own personal experience in college right.

Speaker 1:

We went to augustana college, which is a very liberal, if they say liberal arts university or university uh, sorry, it's not a university I don't know why I said that it's a liberal arts college.

Speaker 1:

They classify themselves as a liberal arts college. Again me choosing a college. I didn't even know what liberal arts mean. I just thought it meant like oh, I'm well-rounded, that's the way that they presented it. It was like oh, you're going to get a well-rounded education here. Well, well-rounded would certainly make you believe that you are getting a very centrist or like middle of the road. You're going to know what the Democrats the road. You're going to know what the democrats think. You're going to know what the republicans think and we're going to, in our teachings, are going to be along the middle of the road. Because you're well-rounded, you get to view from both sides we're not even just both sides, but varying sides.

Speaker 1:

Right, it's not that there's just two, but and probably some people are like not every conversation is a political conversation, right? Well, when the Democrats start saying that math is racist, well now, literally everything you do is a political conversation, right? You never thought that math could be labeled that whatsoever, or roads could be racist, or school buses right? We never, ever thought that was a thing. But now we've heard that before. Okay, so this is kind of where I'm going. Down is like we send our kids to the schools, we have to have conversations with them about what they're learning, because, as parents and the empowering part of this is that parents need to be able to give the other side, because if they're only being fed one side, are they really well-rounded? No, they're totally biased.

Speaker 2:

Well, yeah, and it's really a disservice to them because it's just telling them what to think and believe, as opposed to creating that critical thinking skill and identifying. Well, okay, both sides have good points and both sides have things I don't agree with, but where do I most align what makes the most sense?

Speaker 1:

right, yeah yeah, right, and that is kind of the theme of what we've really seen lately is you are not taught how to critically think, you are taught what to think, and there is somebody else that's creating that narrative and that's regurgitated through universities, through the education system. And so how did I get to this viewpoint? Because I grew up in a household that didn't talk about politics whatsoever. Maybe if I were to ask my dad what a Democrat or Republican was, he would probably give me an answer I think he's more willing to talk about it but it wasn't a common thing. It certainly was never a common conversation and it's still not. So that leaves me as a going off on the world, my own, going into a liberal arts college. So really, this liberal arts college has a prime opportunity to shape the way, I think by giving me the education. And so what was the very first few classes that we had to take? Well, we talked about.

Speaker 2:

The very first book was Yours was the Obama book, wasn't?

Speaker 1:

it. No, mine was Warriors, don't Cry. Oh, so it must have been the class after you.

Speaker 2:

I don't think I read warriors. Don't cry. No, we had the sunflower. That was that book warriors don't cry.

Speaker 1:

I think I'm pretty sure it was about when slavery was over. There were black students that would go to schools and just the experiences that they had going to these schools and whatnot. So instantly talking about race like instantly, and those weren't the only racial discussions that we had oh, yeah, no, no race was a common theme throughout the entire august an instant theme.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and these were not like history classes, these were. They called them lY I don't know what that stands for, but you had a 101, a 102, and a 103. And you were required to take these. But race was the topic of conversation in a lot of these classes and white privilege became something that I was taught about. Okay, so, as you kind of go down this road of well here's, as soon as they enter this university, we're going to start talking about these type of topics. Those are all good subjects to be aware of, but it's such left-leaning ideology. Do you agree with that?

Speaker 2:

yeah, yeah, I did. Yeah, I mean you and I've talked before, I think I I'm bothered by some of the interactions that I had with professors at augustana and why does that need to be like again?

Speaker 1:

why? Why does that need to be the first class? Those types of? Why does race when race wasn't problem wasn't talked about in high school? I went to a high school that was predominantly white, but I hung out with the black people all the time Like because I played sports and like it didn't bother me. It never did. And then all of a sudden, it becomes a thing as you get into higher education, right. All of a sudden it becomes a thing as you get into higher education, right. And so that thing has evolved over time, because that was back in 2008. We were talking about white privilege. Now, all of a sudden, that is a very big topic. That happened when george floyd was going on, right?

Speaker 1:

so 12 years later, even before, before that but yeah, right, but it really became mainstream when George Floyd happened and then race divided everybody. From that moment, race divided everybody Because that was what the narrative was that this was a racial issue. Systematic racism is everywhere, and of course you don't want to be called a racist ever, so you go with these points and you racism is everywhere, and of course you don't want to be called a racist ever. So you go with these points and you agree with it. Everybody that shared that little black screen on Instagram I did it.

Speaker 2:

You did.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

You shared a black screen.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, Remember it was flooding that one day I did it.

Speaker 2:

Oh, I did not.

Speaker 1:

Well, yeah, because at the time, I didn't want to be called a racist, even by not doing something. But now we have this fear of being called a racist in literally everything that we can possibly do, and that is not right whatsoever. And so how do we undo all of this race discussion? Because I don't want to be called a racist, but it's. The problem was is that I never saw race prior to being told that race is a thing.

Speaker 1:

yeah, so that goes down to the education that was given to me, that was forced into my mind, that I was forced to write papers about saying it was a thing. When, in the world that I was living in, race wasn't a thing. I interacted with all kinds of people. It didn't matter. I never saw anybody by their skin color or where they came from. It was always about who they were. But now, all of a sudden, I go to college and now race is thing and you should know about it.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and the professor is going to tell you the reason it was never a thing for you is because you are the white privileged man. Who's the oppressor? Exactly Well, of course it was never noticeable to you.

Speaker 1:

You should feel like shit because you're the white privileged man who never had to think about it. Yeah, exactly, you should feel like shit because you're the white privileged man who never had to think about it. Yeah, exactly, and that is how they, that's how they've beaten everybody down. Oh, because what do you? How do you combat that? How do you combat that? You can't, you can't. Yeah, oh, I guess I wasn't awake.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, the whole, the whole conversation concept around this really is annoying to me for a couple of reasons. One I think every single adult, no matter your color, your gender, where you're from, no matter what, I think everybody's got and I think everyone agrees with this everybody's got an underlying bias to something or someone or something right Just from your own experiences. That's how you grow up and learn to someone or something right Just be from your own experiences. That's how you grow up and learn to view the world. Right Is from your own personal experiences. And somebody asked that just the other day they're like so who are you bias against? When she was saying everybody has an internal bias and everybody has internal like racism, and it was like well, who are you racist against? Did you see that?

Speaker 1:

I don't know what you're talking about it was.

Speaker 2:

Anyways, I digress, but was that?

Speaker 1:

was that like something on instagram you saw, or? Yeah, it was just a video of a congressional hearing oh okay, so just saying that everybody has internal biases and like, who are you have to, you have to work and discover who are your internal biases and who are you racist against, just naturally because of the systematic things that are in place yeah all right now. Doesn't that just make your brain hurt?

Speaker 2:

well, yeah, because if it exists for everybody, then it's not like a systemic problem, right it's. It's just how you end up growing up and viewing the world, right? Yeah, and it annoys me because when all of that was happening, with, like, george floyd and everything was, you know, being responded to or whatever I remember just reflecting so much on Scarlett at that age because she was so young and she was just like moving into toddler ages, and I just remember looking at her and being like dude, this girl doesn't see color whatsoever, right? I mean, she would go to daycare and she had friends of all different races and she would play with the baby dolls of all different colors and there she played with the darker colored baby doll majority of the time, like that was her doll that she played with. And I just remember thinking like she doesn't see color, like people are taught to see color, and I think the teaching to see it is is the problem, right?

Speaker 2:

and it's the teaching to see it, yeah and that's why I've got such an issue with like why do you, why do you have to teach?

Speaker 1:

yeah, right, and so that if you're teaching a kid that the color of their skin matters, then they are going to grow up believing that the color of their skin and everybody else's skin matters, and if you teach them, if you teach them to hate the country that they live in and that it is oppressive and systematically racist and totally rigged against you, they are all going to be saying that it's if you teach that because kids are malleable.

Speaker 1:

Me, even as a 20 year old, is malleableable because, again, I didn't come from a family that talked about politics. I had this whole potential way that I could lean left or right and it wasn't discussed, it wasn't molded upon. When I was younger, college shifted me to the left because I was immersed in these types of discussions, and then I went in to get my first job and I think what I discovered on my first job was that I went to a smaller company still publicly traded but smaller company located in Iowa, and they seemed to have a little bit more. It seemed like it was a little bit more conservative and I stayed there for a few years and really enjoyed my experience but realized that I wanted to go into, I want to be in a big company, right?

Speaker 1:

I want to experience that and actually have a lot of upward trajectory type thing or flexibility, have a lot of upward trajectory type thing or flexibility. And so I found Allstate Insurance and that was out here in Northbrook and I did not realize until kind of recently. That is a very diverse company. It's huge, very diverse, and they would always press. Diversity is great. Diversity allows businesses to thrive. Diversity allows so many ideas to form and then we can pick out the best ideas and that was a huge message that they pushed all the time.

Speaker 1:

And so, as you start talking about, like the DEI stuff, how all of that has worked into the corporations and it took a little bit, for I don't think DEI was there when I was there. That's kind of like a recent thing, but it all started, probably, from some of this. Diversity is good, and I'm not saying that it's not good, but I'm also saying that like, well, look where DEI has kind of landed. It's gone down a trajectory that has. Well, now we're not doing. We want so much diversity and we want to make sure that it's such a level playing field that we're not taking into merit and ability into account, because we'd rather care more about diversity. And so do the best ideas always come to the table if we're not actually hiring people based off of their talents, but rather the way that they look.

Speaker 2:

I'm remembering my time in HR, the last few years that I was still working. I worked in the HR department and I was in a position that was doing a lot of hiring, and so I was the hiring manager for several positions, and I'm just having flashbacks to all these conversations that I had with the EEO department. It's like you publicly advertise a position, you get a huge pool of candidates right, you narrow it down based on qualifications, you interview these people and you get to the end and EEO is looking it over and they're like well, how come you didn't consider any people of of this nationality or background? And I'm like well, look at the pool of people applied. I didn't have any of those people. Well, why not? Do you think that you weren't outreaching enough to those areas? I'm like I don't know. It was on the fricking website. It was posted in this, you know, hr publication. It was posted here, it was posted there. It's on LinkedIn, you know, and I would get all this pressure of like, well, you probably need to go back out and you need to canvas and see if you can get other candidates.

Speaker 2:

I lost two people I wanted to hire because they forced me to go back out on the street and advertise the position so I could get a greater pool. And then what was funny is in HR predominantly we had a lot of women. I think there were two, maybe three men in a department of over 40. And so then I get to this other position and I selected the best candidate who I thought should be hired, and it happened to be a white male. Well, why are you hiring a white male? I'm like dude, he's the only white male who applied. Like it's not, like he actually was the minority of the pool that I was selecting from. And then I'm getting questioned on hiring him because, predominantly over the entire organization?

Speaker 1:

Well, because he's a white male. I know he was the best qualified and if you think of the hierarchy of diversity, white men are on the lowest of the totem pole.

Speaker 2:

I know, but departmentally he was actually the minority because we had a very diverse HR department. Minus the female, it was very female-driven, but across races it was very diverse. He's the only white person that I hired. The whole time I was there and I got just ransacked with questions. I was just like this is just insane. You can't actually hire the right person. There's no choice, right, it was just crazy. It was just crazy, right and so. But obviously he was I had promoted three minority women that I, since I was there, and I hired two other minority women while I was there. And then I just get attacked. For you know, well, you know, I lost two good candidates because you know I didn't have a diverse enough pool. And then I get, you know, accused of I don't know. I digress, but it just kills me because I'm like dude, like I went through this process and I selected each time the person that I thought was best qualified for the position.

Speaker 1:

And then I'm getting questioned well, why?

Speaker 2:

aren't you looking at people based on their skin?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so you? At the end of the day, you had a track record of not being racist, promoting minorities.

Speaker 2:

Yes, yes.

Speaker 1:

And you decide that our best candidate here is this white male. And now you get flack on that. I mean, just think about the craziness of why that even is a thing, but that type of mentality has flooded the corporate world.

Speaker 2:

And not in a good way either, like I remember one of the positions that I was in prior to working in HR, you know the hiring manager specifically said I want a young female in this position. Now let's think about that for a minute, like how is that not discriminatory, right? Yeah, very much so it is, yeah, it's like I don't want anybody older and I don't want any men right, it's, it's a it's 100 discriminatory but it was allowed because you know, women are minorities, so okay.

Speaker 1:

so if the corporations have recently been flooded with all of this, but back in college, that's where race became a thing. And then, well, what happens to all the students once they graduate college? Well, they might go on and get an mba, to get a doctorate, and those types of teachings are probably still pushed or they go on and they go into the corporate world. Well, a lot of the corporate world comes from colleges and universities, so this liberal, left-leaning mindset is all of a sudden being absorbed in the corporations. And that's where it's kind of troubling to me, because at the end of the day, business should be about merit and who's the best person for the job? Who is the best person for the job and does that person help us accomplish our goals as a business? It doesn't matter where they come from, what they look like, I don't know. That just seems like a very obvious thing.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I totally agree. So I guess I want to ask you, since you asked me, since you didn't talk about politics in your household.

Speaker 1:

Where did my conservatism come from? Yeah, because you went to liberal school. Yeah, right, we haven't gotten to that far yet, because my conservatism one it was shaped in college, left leaning. Then I got steered to the right because I went to a corporation that was actually more conservative in rural Iowa. And then I went back to a large corporation in an urban area in a left-leaning state, but then I did not like the experience there and I didn't like the people that I was surrounded by and I didn't like particularly the boss I was working for and I said this is miserable.

Speaker 1:

And then I found real estate and I made a jump into entrepreneurship. And entrepreneurship allowed me to really think for myself, which was I am going to do everything possible so that my business can grow and can obtain the goals that it wants to obtain, that I can continue to get the customers that I want to influence and attract. And everything just became about blocking and tackling. There was no HR department. If you look at the people that we have hired here as our brokers black, white, female, male I mean I don't have a DEI program, I just hire people because I think that they're a good fit.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I think a lot of what further shaped you I don't feel like you left college being a liberal, but maybe a little bit. But I think what helped further shaped you was experiences with policy in your work. I think there were so many examples of like I think about the one client you had trying to think of the right term who had that property in her family for several years but was struggling to sell it because of a zoning restriction. It was a zoning restriction that was trying to limit some gentrification.

Speaker 1:

Yes.

Speaker 2:

You know what I'm talking about. Yes, yeah, exactly yeah, and so we don't need to go into the insecurities of that. But unless you want to, yeah, that's a great example.

Speaker 1:

It was a family house. We were trying to sell it as it was currently a single family home. We were trying to sell it to a developer because it was really run down Like family house. Never really kept up. Super small, didn't have the money yeah, yep, and we're just trying to unload it for them so that they can get out of it, and and get whatever with equity.

Speaker 1:

Yeah walk away with equity, and so we got a developer to give us like basically full price, and the developer, uh, went under contract. And then he ended up realizing that, oh no, because of the zoning restriction laws that they have recently put into place in Humboldt Park this is where this was you can't demolish a single family home and build another single family home, which makes no sense. It's literally the exact same thing. We're just going to make a nicer one.

Speaker 2:

They wanted multifamily.

Speaker 1:

They said that because there were the block wasn't all single family homes, the block had to be well, you can't put another single family home on there. We want multi-family because there's a housing shortage and so if you're going to tear it down, you have to build a two flat at least. Well, that didn't work for this developer. He doesn't build two flats, build single family homes. So essentially we couldn't sell it to somebody who was really going to pay full price. Instead, we had to take a huge cut in the actual price that we ended up getting, which came from somebody who's going to keep that same house and now he's just renting it out. But the price difference was probably like fifty thousand dollars. I mean, it was significant, significant for a family that didn't have anything else, right, and that was all because of politics, gentrification. We don't want this area to have home values increase, essentially what that was yes, it doesn't make any sense why?

Speaker 1:

because now you still have this same rundown house being rented out and it doesn't improve. It could really improve the neighborhood by having a nicer home there, but now it's still this older rundown one.

Speaker 1:

So yeah, yeah, I think, as you've had more and more experiences with people's real estate stories and hurdles that they've been real estate in general, real estate in general, like real estate developers, real estate investors, they are all more conservative, right, because it just it's the natural. Well, especially when it goes to like leasing and stuff, like you know, that's where discriminatory issues could come into play. But if you take the whole play of I don't care what I mean we, all of our tenants, if you were to look at our tenant mix that we have, we have Hispanics, we have blacks, we have whites, we have literally everybody, and these are all people that we've leased to Asians. Yeah, these are all people that we have leased to. We decided that we were going to lease to them because they all met the same merit standard, which was they have credit scores above our threshold and they have three times the rent amount and they don't have any criminal, like violent criminal issues on their background. There you go, that's the standard Try everybody Right, try everybody Right. And so that is.

Speaker 1:

The thing is that when you all of a sudden start saying, well, I only want to lease all of my apartments to white males, like hello, I can't do that, you can't, you absolutely cannot do that Right, it needs to be based off of merit, and so if the merit is all of a sudden being lowered because that's what's been happening is that you have Boeing big on DEI. All of a sudden, there's a lot of failures that are happening, that is putting their customers at risk, where doors are flying off, and it's because that they're missing. They're hiring the wrong people because they don't have the merit, because what has basically happened? Well, in order to get the same type of, in order to get somebody in the job, but we want to. But maybe the best performing person happens to be a white male. Well, we don't want the white male, but the next best performing person has a lower standard, happens to be a black person, and so they've lowered the standard so that they can hire the black person, and so standards are being lowered.

Speaker 1:

Now, is that to say that the black person couldn't, that they couldn't continue to wait and find a black person that could hit the old standard? They probably could, but in the essence of well, maybe we need to hit these hiring metrics by this time frame and we can't continue to wait around. Well, let's just hire this one, because that's the best that we have and that checks the box, doesn't it? So that's what's happening, and so, long story short, my conservatism came from not having any type of ruling over me. There was no authority. It allowed me to freely think, and what's interesting is that I recently came across this is that people that have the freedom to think, the freedom to be creative, they're the ones that are able to have the most happiness in their world and life.

Speaker 1:

It's when you start putting into these bureaucratic requirements is that people really start to be unhappy and they get angry. Maybe that's where a lot of division comes from, because you have some of these requirements that are being pushed, and so I think, as you get into an entrepreneurial space, you're probably going to end up being a lot more conservative, because you don't have anyone telling you what to think. You go based off of common sense. Nobody's forcing you to believe one way or the other. You make that decision for yourself, and it seems to be defaulting for me into what's the common sense argument here? And I don't think that the Democrats still have common sense anymore. I think they've lost it. You look really bored.

Speaker 2:

No, that's not the right word.

Speaker 1:

You look tired, are you done? Okay, did we get to the whole answer on that?

Speaker 2:

Where your conservatism came from. Yeah, yeah, okay, yeah, I think so.

Speaker 1:

Also at the same time.

Speaker 1:

I think here's an issue as you start seeing that the LGBTQ plus side stuff is being pushed onto kids.

Speaker 1:

Republicans are very much against that, because I think what we've started to recognize is that the universities are flooded. The Republicans have allowed the education system to be completely controlled by the left and now they want the left to be able to control the mindset of the youngest little kids. And if the youngest little kids, who are so vulnerable, who don't even know what to think, are being told that it is okay and being very much educated on all of the possibilities and all the things that are available to them, is that if they want to get surgeries done to change who they are, well we're going to make sure that they know that at a very young age and that's the education part of that's not appropriate whatsoever, because people's minds can be manipulated to believe certain things when they expose them to. That in which is what is happening in colleges, Because we're being exposed to certain topics that they believe is essential, which is shaping the mindset of those people going through those universities.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I was telling you earlier about in college. This was the first I had really ever heard of the concept of like gender. Heard of the concept of like gender? I probably not, but the the first, the first memory I have of it really ever being discussed. You know, I don't people having different genders growing up was like, not really a thing I can think of. There was one person who was two years older than me at my high school who allegedly, like, started transitioning from a man to a woman their senior year. That was the only person I could think of all growing up. But then I get to college and I have this professor and he gives us this assignment called baby X and it was the first time I've ever really talked about gender like this and the whole assignment was okay.

Speaker 2:

This happy couple has a new baby and they've decided that they're not going to tell anybody whether it's a boy or a girl. Is kind of like a social experiment and the whole class and the article was talking about how uncomfortable this made people. You know their baby was baby X. They're not telling you if it was a boy or a girl, they're not giving you any indication through name of its gender and how uncomfortable people would get by that. Because, like, the first question they ask you when you have a new baby is oh my gosh, did you have a boy or a girl?

Speaker 2:

And the whole conversation around this was like making that seem weird. Like, isn't it so weird that grownups are asking you what kind of genitalia your baby has? And I remember just thinking how outlandish that thought was. You know, people are just trying to create an identity for your new baby. You know, is your baby a boy or a girl? Not what the hell kind of genitalia they have. I just thought that was like the most outlandish thing that I had ever heard. But you know, this was a assignment I had in college and it's so interesting to me how far we have come now with this whole conversation around gender.

Speaker 1:

Because now you're forced to believe that, oh right. Well, why do people freak out about the genitalia? Or why must they know? Or, hmm, is that you just introduced a whole new topic and idea that, in my opinion, has not gone the way that we want it to go. It's causing people to really question everything about themselves, and once you.

Speaker 1:

Let's take this, for example recently the haitians are being accused of. The recent haitians that have been immigrated into, that have immigrated into ohio, have been accused by the republicans as eating cats and dogs, stealing the cats, the pets and eating the dogs. That's a cultural thing that we have no idea about. That is not something that goes on in the West. It's illegal to do that. I'm pretty sure you cannot eat a cat or a dog. I'm pretty sure that's illegal. But if people do it in Haiti, well, couldn't it just be introduced in a college setting that? Well, other cultures eat cats and dogs and here's why they think that and now this is a topic that is being introduced in the education system as well they believe that they have special powers when they eat the cats and dogs. It's more of a ritual thing, and as you start talking about that more and more and more. Oh, okay, so we have some Haiti people that live in our neighborhood and back home. That's part of their culture is that they eat cats and dogs as we continue to have that conversation. Well, now it becomes a lot more immune. And maybe you see your neighbor who is a Haitian, who all of a sudden is cooking up a cat and dog and you're like well, I learned about that in college and it's okay.

Speaker 1:

It's because the idea has been planted in your head to be okay and that's all it takes is the introduction of any type of idea to be planted into your head. That goes against the laws that have been put in place to rid those ideas. You see what I mean. So is it the same thing with the transgender stuff and how?

Speaker 1:

Now the Democrats think that it's so important that we need to have these conversations at the youngest age possible, so that we plant these ideas in their head, super, super young, so that they know about all the resources that are available to them, so that if they're nine years old and they want to transition and their parents say no, well, you know what they're still going to be able to get the help that they need and you know what? If those parents still refuse, we're going to take those kids away and let them go ahead and do these life-changing surgeries that you can't take back because that child knows. Does that child really know or did you plan an idea in their head? I don't know. That's the question, and I think, from the Republican standpoint, none of those conversations should ever be happening prior to adulthood.

Speaker 2:

No, I think the conversation shouldn't be happening without the parents, not necessarily prior to adulthood, but Okay, sure, without the parents. Yeah, it shouldn't be in a school setting. Yeah, went down some roads today. What was your biggest takeaway from this conversation.

Speaker 1:

Don't get Jason on a rant Was that really ranting A couple times In a bad way.

Speaker 2:

No, not yet. Let's listen to the replay.

Speaker 1:

Oh man Okay. No, not yet. Let's listen to the replay. Oh man Okay.

Speaker 2:

No biggest takeaway. I think the biggest thing is you know you want to be, as parents, the one initiating conversations with your kids, the one planting seeds first. It's not to say that you know you need to force opinions on them. Like I said, that wasn't the case for me. Say that you need to force opinions on them, Like I said, that wasn't the case for me. You don't need to force opinions on them, you don't need to dictate their thought process. But I do think that there's some importance in being the first to converse in an idea before somebody else does.

Speaker 1:

It's who can get to them first sometimes, and I think that is a terrible approach because, again, people are so malleable, especially at a young age, especially when your brain is still expanding Our brains are still expanding into our 20s, right, our capacity to learn and it makes you very impressionable and I think that is like something that is just I think we're talking about it this morning. If I were to go back now to go into an MBA program, I think I would have a very, very different view about that type of education that I'm about to receive, right, because I've already made up my mind that I stand for conservative values. But the problem is that I know that the universities are flooded with liberal values. It would be very challenging for me potentially to go and try and get an MBA if there's just a lot of left-leaning bias that's going to be thrown at me, right, and they call that higher education. That's a big challenge and it makes me kind of fearful for our kids.

Speaker 1:

Is that, if none of this changes, if none of this changes and the universities and higher education continue to have major left-wing biases and we've seen how far the left has really gone, where all of these very, very progressive ideas used to sound so crazy, but now they're not anymore and now they become a lot more mainstream.

Speaker 1:

It makes me very fearful for what could be taught to our kids, right, and that's just the thing that parents now have to really consider is what are the teachings, not just at a young age, but what are the teachings as they go off into higher education. So we got a long road before we get there, but I think those are just like serious thoughts that you know, challenges today's world, and that I don't think that our parents had these discussions. Do you think that they did? In terms of like, oh, I'm like, oh, they're going off to college, they're going to get so smart, they're going to be, you know, get a major and they're going to go off into their field. There was never, probably, a discussion about what if they come out like super liberal and or super Republican, and now, all of a sudden, I don't know who they are.

Speaker 2:

No, I think the awareness around the partisanship that exists in education has only recently become known Right, yeah, yeah, and I really think that it was.

Speaker 1:

Oh, I heard this recently too. It was on Tucker's last show. If we can divide the family based off of politics, the family still remains divisible and a lot of times when you think about division, it's because you have broken families, and the family is really the bedrock for stability, and what we just see is that the divorce rates are really high, people are having children. You have broken families. I'm sorry'm sorry. You look here about to pass out. I am a little bit.

Speaker 2:

Oh, my god, okay it's not because you're boring, it's just because I'm pregnant. Okay, it's just. This is the time of day that I take a nap okay, I'm sorry.

Speaker 1:

Okay, just like. Okay, I right, we're gonna, we're gonna have to cut it there. I this isn't gonna work, all right. Thanks for listening to today's show. If you had any interest in what we shared and you want to have a deeper conversation with it, you can reach out to us anytime. We're happy to talk with you, and thanks again for listening and we'll see you on the next one.