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Real Life Investing With Jason & Rachel Wagner
“Real Life Investing” with Jason and Rachel Wagner is a multifaceted podcast that blends insights from real estate, entrepreneurship, family life, and political discussions. Known for their candid and engaging style, the Wagner’s explore how their conservative values shape their approach to both business and life. They often discuss their personal journeys in real estate, offering practical tips on topics like how to buy a house or investment property while navigating a challenging housing market.
In addition to real estate, the show frequently delves into entrepreneurial lessons, highlighting the importance of mindset, perseverance, and staying focused on long-term goals. They are open about the challenges they’ve faced and provide valuable advice for anyone looking to head into entrepreneurship or seek the best version of themselves.
Dinner table conversations are central to the podcast. The Wagner’s discuss their experiences balancing various topics that families face, while often featuring guests who share similar journeys. Political conversations are explored from a conservative perspective, particularly when they touch on how these beliefs influence their business decisions and personal growth.
With a blend of relatable stories and expert advice, “Real Life Investing” is a show that appeals to a wide audience, from aspiring entrepreneurs and real estate investors, to those seeking inspiration in their personal lives.
Real Life Investing With Jason & Rachel Wagner
64. Leaning Into Faith with Anita Pilalis
Bible sales are reaching record highs, and across America, more people are reconnecting with their faith. This makes today’s episode especially timely as we sit down with the incredible Anita Pilalis, a devoted and passionate Christian. Anita shares the powerful moment she found God and how it became her life’s mission to serve Him.
Our conversation touches on how others can lean into their faith to help them during times of uncertainty, how prayer can be used as an intimate conversation, how to recognize the unseen spiritual warfare that encapsulates our world, and how faith can guide crucial life decisions that might come our way.
This episode is an authentic conversation that dives into personal stories of how each of us found our way to Christ and the journeys we have taken to deepen our relationship with God.
Subscribe to Anita's blog: https://overflowoftheheart.com/
Follow Anita on Instagram: @anitapilalis
Welcome back to another episode of the Real Life Investing Podcast with Jason and Rachel Wagner. We have a very, very special guest with us. Anita Palalis is here, and Anita and we actually go back to Augustana days that's kind of where we met, but we've been in touch ever since we graduated in 2012, because you have helped with my business on the coolest part, which is you provide these amazing custom made home suite home signs for anyone who has ever bought a house for me, and so there's probably a number of listeners that are like, hey, that sign is from Anita.
Jason Wagner:And actually yours is hanging right over there.
Rachel Wagner:And then we have two more in the basement.
Jason Wagner:And then you've also made some cool the chart sign that's up in the kids' room, and so Anita's got just a ton of great DIY talents. I do enjoy that. Where did that come from?
Anita Pilalis:Because we didn't have money for someone to do it for me. So I'm like, okay, if I actually want something done, I realize I'm going to probably have to do it, and I've always enjoyed growing up a scrapbooker. I'm like like that was my thing. So then I was like, okay, no, I'm gonna get into stuff that I can actually like see the fruits of my labor like in the home. So I think that's where it started. And then, with the science stuff, it was just one of those things where I'm like, well, this is fun. And there was like a I feel like a period of time where people were doing a lot doing like the signs and stuff like that, and so she like taught me a little bit more how to do that and like how the frames come together and everything. So it was just kind of it all kind of just came together.
Jason Wagner:Yeah, yeah, that's right, that's right.
Anita Pilalis:Because I used to go to. Let's see. I asked Kaylee and then Kaylee's.
Jason Wagner:Like I All right, so, but the whole, like we're going to talk about a lot of stuff with you because you're just like so interesting.
Anita Pilalis:Thank you, guys, I've never heard that before, but I'll take it.
Jason Wagner:But the main conversation here is really like rediscovering your faith and God and Jesus, and so you wanted to pray before we started this show. So I'll let you take that away.
Anita Pilalis:Okay, lord Jesus, just thank you for this time that we get together. Thank you for Rachel and for Jason. God, thank you for their heart and wanting to explore you more. God, thank you for the fire that you're putting inside their hearts, god. I pray that this fire continues to burn. God, we know that you're doing revival throughout this entire nation, god, and I know it starts at home and I know it starts in their family.
Anita Pilalis:God, and just hearing their story about how their kids helped them to kind of come back to their faith too, and I just pray, god, that you just continue to stir in their hearts. God, and I pray that anyone listening that it helps stir their hearts. God, it helps them either question you more, wonder more about you, god, explore more of you, god, because there's so much to learn, god, and I just pray that just give us the words to speak, god, give us the questions to ask God, and just please be with us in this room. We thank you for everything that you do. In Jesus' name. We pray Amen, amen. That was great.
Jason Wagner:That was amazing.
Anita Pilalis:I actually am like I had more. That I even probably wanted to say originally, but I was like, no, we'll just keep it nice and sweet. I could go on for a while.
Jason Wagner:So I actually want to talk about that a little bit.
Anita Pilalis:Praying out loud is kind of hard for people. Yeah, totally. You just did that so eloquently. It did not start like that, so I'll tell you that much I was, so it kind of for me, serving has been a really big thing for me. I love serving. That's like something that my heart has just always leaned towards, and obviously we see that Jesus like his servant leadership, he came not to be served but to serve, and so that's something that we want to do as well, and so that's something that we want to do as well, and so that's something I've just like always been leaned in towards, because, especially like growing up for us, like I, we didn't have a lot of money, so we often were served our family, which at the time I don't think I realized. Now I do.
Anita Pilalis:But so in our food market I started serving there a couple of years ago at church we have a free food market and one of the women she said to me oh, you can pray for people, and I was like no, that's okay though. Thank you so much though for offering. She's like okay, well, we'll just maybe like little by little, you can just add in some things, or you can kind of come sit with us and I would almost be uncomfortable sometimes being in the prayer circle, cause I'm like I don't know what to say, like I don't want to make them uncomfortable, I'm too worried. Until I just had this realization of okay. So she kind of just pushed me into it and she's like just pray for them.
Anita Pilalis:And I'm like, okay, so I prayed, I was a little nervous I think anybody is, you know, praying and you're worried about what you're saying Until I realized I'm like no, this is my conversation with God. Like people are just listening with God and lifting him up and he's also with us. So that brings me comfort when I'm praying. So I'm just like no, this isn't about if I'm saying something right or if I'm saying something wrong. This is literally about what he's putting in my heart and what I'm sending back up to him. So I think it's like when you realize you're talking to a friend, it just changes the whole dynamic of the prayer. Yeah, so that's really appreciate that.
Rachel Wagner:I actually have a story about that. When it was the first year that our girls were at the school that they're at now, I was doing 75 hard and entered phase three, and part of phase three is you have to talk to a different person, a new stranger, every single day, and so I had made this decision. Okay, I know there's a group that prays at the school it's called Moms in Prayer, and I'm going to go into it and I'm going to go pray. And I had no idea what I was walking into and it was a really, really small group. There was only probably like four women there and they were all it was one mom and the rest were all teachers at the school and I I walked in and I think I was like expecting like someone to kind of lead the whole thing, and it was a round table of praying and we hadn't been going to church yet and I was still very, very like. I was so uncomfortable.
Anita Pilalis:Yeah, and.
Rachel Wagner:I didn't, I didn't partake, I just listened and I kept my eyes closed and just let the circle go around and they were very kind and, like you know, it was fine, but I felt I felt so nervous and so uncomfortable. So I appreciate your take on like it's your conversation with God and your friend. Yeah, yeah, maybe someday I'll go back, but I have yet to go back because I was so intimidated.
Anita Pilalis:Yeah, when you realize like there is so much power in prayer and God does say when there's two or more in my name, I'm there, Obviously, he's with us always, but I think his presence is felt even more when there's two or more people in his name. And so when you think about that and you really just put it in the perspective of like this is this is God working with us right now. This is this is a vertical thing in prayer, and I do think it's a thing of where constantly we're so worried about the world and what other people are thinking that we just we get in our own head and we start worrying. Oh, I said the wrong thing, oh, I stumbled on my word.
Anita Pilalis:Oh I and that's also sometimes how I can. I kind of feel like I mean I could go down a whole nother road. But I do think it's the enemy where he tries to whisper that stuff at us so he gets in the way of our conversation with God. So it's like sometimes, we just need to focus in on what we're actually saying and what really matters. You know what I mean.
Jason Wagner:Yeah, yeah, I did.
Anita Pilalis:I did do one prayer out loud and it was on thanksgiving, okay, and I will tell you this yeah with family.
Rachel Wagner:Yeah, totally totally okay.
Jason Wagner:So we had thanksgiving at my brother's house and they always do this amazing, obviously amazing feast right, and you know, typically it's like all right, the host usually has something to say before you have dinner and my brother just.
Anita Pilalis:I don't he forgot yeah and the food was enough, I guess. Yeah, he had a lot of fat in the turkey, right, yeah, yeah.
Jason Wagner:You know, and then usually I kind of looked at my dad. My dad might say something, but he didn't have anything, and I was like, all right, I'm going to take this opportunity. Awesome, and I'm going to let it rip. I ultimately I just closed my eyes and I just like kind of forgot about everybody that was in the room and I just started speaking. So kind of what you were just talking about was having a conversation with you and God, but what happened to me was that I got emotional.
Anita Pilalis:Oh, yeah, that happened, though Like insanely emotional, everyone got emotional, because then Jason was emotional.
Jason Wagner:Yeah, it was very moving, but I want to comment on this, because I think that was a really powerful moment for me and it also kind of goes back to the day when we first went back to church.
Rachel Wagner:It was only two weeks after that.
Jason Wagner:It was yeah, oh, really.
Rachel Wagner:Yes, because it was Thanksgiving and it was right after the election that we went to church.
Jason Wagner:Okay. So when we went back to church for the very first time, when I said I want to go, okay, I walked into that room and I was like really scared. And then I looked around at everybody. I mean this place was packed and I'm like there's probably like 250 people in here and they're all singing songs, feeling it, and there's people with their arms raised and like I just lost it.
Anita Pilalis:Yeah, it's, it's emotional.
Jason Wagner:I totally lost it. What is that?
Anita Pilalis:I personally believe that that's the Holy spirit inside of you piercing your heart, showing softening your heart towards more of him, and the emotion that goes into when, when you see people just completely vulnerable and pouring their heart out to God. It's not a show for everyone else, it's a show for God from yourself praising him right. So that's the deepest form of vulnerability to me, is being able to just have that time with God and praising and worshiping him, because I also had the. So David grew up, my husband grew up in a Christian household and in high school he would invite me to church with him. So I would come and whatever.
Anita Pilalis:And I remember just so many times looking around being like what is this? Like everyone's like praising. But then I would kind of feel something stirring inside me but I'm like no, I'm like keep your hands down, this is weird, this is confusing. So it was very weird for me because I didn't grow up in a Christian household. So it's confusing when you don't have the Holy Spirit inside of you or when you don't feel that stirring because it's like what is happening. But when you do have the Holy Spirit in you and he's piercing your heart and you start to get those emotions. It's like because you really it's that praise thing, it's the praise thing and the worship to God and that's just a form of us, you know, honoring him and humbling ourselves before him and just like he's so good. So in my opinion, when you're like I think that was you being touched by the Holy Spirit, feeling that emotion that comes around with it, yeah, yeah.
Jason Wagner:So it's just a day that I'll probably, you know, never forget, because it was that, it was just that meaningful and it's like it took me. It took, it, took me over, right.
Anita Pilalis:So was that like, do you feel like that could have been when you are like accepting Christ in your heart, or was that like was there a stirring?
Jason Wagner:going on. It felt like it. Yes, it totally felt like it, yeah.
Anita Pilalis:And I love those moments of like you'll never forget it, like that's a moment that you're saying, like I don't know if that's exactly what you're saying, but I'm assuming you're saying like I'll never forget how I felt in that moment. And those are moments that I think are not to be forget, forgotten, because that's a feeling of like oh, this is what it feels like to be hugged by God or his presence in our life, like and I. That's what I kind of picture it as.
Jason Wagner:What was also interesting on that church service was when they were doing the baptisms too.
Rachel Wagner:Oh cool.
Anita Pilalis:Okay, I was going to ask you about it.
Jason Wagner:So we saw it seemed like there was a teenager, there was an elderly woman and then there was another guy, middle age, and so they shared their stories. And I think just like putting all of this together, which is like because when you do the baptism it's kind of like it's the beginning right. Or you know it's your you're. You're declaring your life again and you're born again, right. And it's just so funny that that happened to be our first one, because we've been we've been to a number of them after that, and they didn't have it.
Anita Pilalis:Yeah, it's not a coincidence for God. I don't believe in coincidences.
Jason Wagner:Well, a lot of people would say, well, it is just a coincidence.
Anita Pilalis:But why do you say, why do you say it's not, I've had too many moments in my life with God where I'm like, if that's a coincidence, like my whole life is a coincidence, because there's been so many moments where I feel like direct, it's a direct answer from God. What you were saying to me is like have you heard the verse? Like ask, knock and seek. Ask and you will find. Or knock and the door will be open to you, seek and you will find it. I just said it wrong, so sorry for who's going to backtrack that we know exactly what you're talking about though, but that's what it kind of makes me think of Was that Matthew?
Jason Wagner:Was that Matthew?
Anita Pilalis:I can't remember Probably I'm not the best with like exact spots of it but I mean it's all in there. I think that's is so cool, thinking about how you, just like I, was listening to your guys' podcast episode of the faith one and you were saying how one day you just woke up and you were like, yeah, I want to go to church. And you were like, what? You want to go to church? Like where did this come from? You were seeking after something that has been put in your heart and you were wondering about it. And when you went to church that's what it makes me think of is like you were seeking and God answered in that moment saying, no, I am here, this is the real thing Now. It doesn't answer everything completely, but at least gives you that stirring of your heart where you're like, oh, I need to explore this more, I need to know more about it, because look already how far you've come from.
Anita Pilalis:That moment of and God knows, and he meets us where we're at Right, like, and that's the thing too is like God also says draw near to me and I will draw near to you If you are drawing near to him. And I'm not saying that has to be in a church because it doesn't, but that is when you're in a room full of believers. It does do something to you emotionally. It does do something to you, and to see other people also seeking that same thing, god will draw near to that, and so that's where the thing I'm like I that's the verse that popped in my head was like the you were asking, you were seeking and you are finding. So it's like, and God responds to that. So that's what it made me think of.
Jason Wagner:It was really cool I want to hear about. When I first asked you to come on here, you were like you're kind of teeter tottering, yeah, yeah I love this because? Because it wasn't a conversation that we were having over the phone, it was a text conversation. You're like. Well, I don't know if I feel like I'm, you know yeah. Right, but you totally are.
Jason Wagner:And like this is amazing and what makes it really relatable for us is that you're a peer of ours, right, and I think that that's more helpful, because we can see you directly and like we can relate to you, versus a pastor who, may you know, have been down this journey for a very long time, maybe much older, and so, anyways, we, we just like, value this conversation, but I want to know, like, how did you start? How did you? What was the day? I mean, you said you grew up Catholic.
Rachel Wagner:No, I didn't. No, she didn't. She didn't grow up in a Christian household. Yeah, which?
Anita Pilalis:surprised me so.
Rachel Wagner:I'm curious on that story too Okay.
Anita Pilalis:So, I'll give like a shorter version. So I grew up in a pretty dysfunctional household, I would say. My dad was an alcoholic. He was verbally abusive to all of us and so I grew up in just not a great household. My mom went to church when she could and things like that, and she gave us the option of going. So I will say that she did give us the option of going, but other than that, that was probably pretty much the extent of like where my faith journey was as a kid. So my dad passed away when I was eight years old and I had a pretty dysfunctional relationship with him.
Anita Pilalis:He was just pretty brutal and which in turn, made me have this just like view of God of being like who are you and why are? Why did you let this happen to me? Like, what did I do to deserve this? And especially like, growing up in my neighborhood like I would see other kids with dads who were loving and great and I was like, well, I didn't get a dad, but I'm a nice kid, like. So I very much was in that like field of why would God ever do this to me? Like what kind of God would ever hurt a child when they didn't do anything to deserve it Right. I think a lot of us like fall into the. Our circumstances kind of make us believe in God in one way or the other, so I didn't believe for a long time. It's cool now, though, because so there were.
Anita Pilalis:I think there were multiple seeds planted for God in my life growing up, but I just kind of rejected it all. And I also was big on in high school I would see people say they believed in God, and then I would see them getting drunk one night or doing all this different stuff, and I was like, oh, if you really believe in God, like why are you doing that? Like aren't you supposed to be like you go on Wednesday nights, like and do like the youth group stuff, and then you go get drunk or something. And I'm like, so I didn't understand, first of all, that, like we're all sinners, we all make mistakes, we all are often asking for repentance with God, but in my mind I just saw it as like hypocrites. So like for me, I had this like bad taste in my mouth of what I saw church goers doing and then what you know, I didn't see it lining up, and that was a big problem for me. So I had I don't know if I didn't believe in God, I think I was just more angry at a God. I didn't know who that God was. So that was like kind of my story growing up.
Anita Pilalis:And then David, my husband at the time boyfriend he did go to church though. So again he would invite me to church, I would go with him to church and you know, hear about it there, but I don't think. But my heart was never touched by it, like I was just kind of like no, this is not for me type of thing, and so, and again, I don't know if it wasn't for me, I just think I was so angry that I didn't have the capacity to accept him in my heart, cause I was like how could a God do that to me, you know? So then in college we kidding in college we it was at. Had you guys ever heard of fields of faith at college?
Jason Wagner:Fields of faith. Now that you say it, it does kind of like.
Anita Pilalis:You maybe went to it, I don't know because a lot of people went to it. So it was sophomore year. We had a fields of faith thing. Kaylee, who's one of my best friends, she was part of the committee for fields of faith and she invited all of us to go. We went with her. She invited like a lot of some of the girls in our sorority were a part of it too. So they invited us to go and I was like, okay, I'm going to go to support Kaylee and whatever it might be.
Anita Pilalis:Kaylee is a whole nother part of my faith journey, which has been. She was an instrumental part of, like me, coming to Christ too. But yeah, we came, we became best friends in freshman year and she kind of planted seeds there. And even David, like now I kind of look back and I see letters that he wrote to me where he said I'm praying that God will soften your heart. At that time I guarantee I didn't even think twice about it. I was probably like, okay, whatever, like it doesn't matter to me. And then, like now I can look back and I'm like, oh my gosh, like those were seeds that he was planting and and God was softening my heart.
Anita Pilalis:So, anyways, sophomore year we went to fields of faith. Fields of faith was where they had a pastor come on and speak and he just preached a word which at the time I didn't really even know what that was. So I was like sitting there and I remember just at one point, everything he was saying was literally piercing my heart. I felt like God was speaking to me, directly to me. I felt like there was no one else there and I just felt like I heard God telling me like what are you going to do with your life? Like type of thing. And like I was doing everything every other college kid pretty much was doing getting drunk, like having just wild nights and then, you know, waking up the next day and then we do it again and stuff like that.
Anita Pilalis:So like I, you know, when I was hearing him say this, I was, and I will say, david and I were pretty dysfunctional in our relationship. We were just like fighting nonstop, because it's like I was super insecure because I had a dad who didn't love me and was gone and I can never get that piece back. So I just had grown up super insecure and just like longing for someone to love me and which I just didn't realize that was what God could do for me the whole entire time. I didn't need that from any person. So, anyways, at this fields of faith thing, I just felt God touch my heart and I was like, oh my gosh, he's real. And I remember this was more of a word where he was like you know, you don't have forever. Life is very short. Like you, either gonna like accept Christ and and go to heaven, or you're gonna potentially go to hell, you know. So, like he, we were. It was kind of like a. It probably wasn't as like straightforward, but I remember I was just like whoa, what am I doing? When am I going to try to explore this more? And so I felt like the Holy spirit completely touched me. So I think that day I accepted Christ and which is cool, cause the next day, I think, was my birthday, or a few days after that, and my friend gifted me like a little devotional and I remember writing and being like, okay, I'm going to, I'm going to do this.
Anita Pilalis:I think I found everything that I've been looking for in my life, which is God, but I had no discipleship, which was really hard, especially in college, cause then, if you're a new Christian, you don't know where to go with this, which is why I'm so like proud of you guys for actually exploring it, because, I mean, you're older now too, so you, you know, you understand that, like there's steps that you have to take in order to like, learn more things. As me as a college student, I just thought like okay, what happens? Nobody invited me to church, like nobody. Like I had no discipleship, so I didn't know what to do, so I just went back to my old ways. And then it was once I graduated college, but except this, now I believe in God.
Anita Pilalis:And when I graduated college, somebody invited us to our church, which is now my still church. It was in like 2014, I believe, or 2013. And I just haven't gone back. Like that's when I felt like, okay, this is like where I want to learn and grow in and this is like what life is all about is learning who Jesus is and then planting those seeds for everyone else and just growing in that relationship. So that's like where you know the short version of my faith journey. Yeah.
Rachel Wagner:What was it about that church that helped you feel like that was the one Cause I think you know we're. We have gone to two very, very different churches. We like both of them but we're having a hard time Like how do you, how do you know? What is it about the church that Well for okay.
Anita Pilalis:So two most important things for me in a church. Number one biblically based. It has to be biblically based. If it's more of like somebody just preaching something and then like, at times, going back to like the word, that to me is just like kind of like more of like a show, whereas, like I need it to be biblically based, I need your sermon to be based around this what's in the bible like, because that's super important to me and especially right now there's so much confusion with people and I think a lot of people are distorting the word and and changing things for what works for them and how they want to live their life. So they want to distort it a little bit so that they can continue living in things that they're doing. So for me personally, yeah, the word.
Jason Wagner:Why? Why is there a distortion that could be happening and why would the congregation allow it?
Rachel Wagner:And how do you identify that? Because I feel like I've heard arguments both ways right Of who is distorting the word and how many times it's been translated so like it's not even what it originally is. So how do you know and how do you identify that?
Anita Pilalis:Well, okay, so something that I would say is it is biblical knowing that people are going to distort the word and people are going to manipulate it, and I think there's actually a verse that says it and again, I wish I could remember it exactly but it talks about how people will manipulate the word to fit whatever they want, like kind of their narrative type of thing. So that is something that I think one of the ways you can distinguish that is by reading the word like and not just like reading the word here and there, like reading it every single day, because it's like when you have a friend like you know that friend because you're talking to that friend every day and you're getting closer with them and you're growing in relationship with them. Like a lot of people want to understand the Bible without actually like growing in the Bible and learning it and taking time. So that's my part of like knowing what is real and what's not. And then, like the translation thing, that has been like something that I've even struggled with, hearing people say like, oh, it's been translated this time and this time and this time I can't like give go into the fruit like full detail of that because I don't know all the ins and outs of it, but what I do know is that, like a lot of the translations, while they're not word for word, the meanings of like what they're saying in it is still there and it's and it's and it's still relevant Now, some of the context of like society back then versus society Now.
Anita Pilalis:I know things have obviously changed, so that's why, like, women don't have to wear, you know, head wrappings and different things like that, and have obviously changed. So that's why, like women don't have to wear, you know, head wrappings and different things like that. And I think that's why a lot of people get, so they get so worked up on like the specifics of that. Well, why do you do this and you don't do this? And why do we just? And it's, and I do think a lot of that, and I, I I won't get too much into like the spiritual warfare part of it, but I do believe a lot of it is spiritual warfare, where the enemy is trying to whisper at us well, that doesn't make sense.
Anita Pilalis:Well, why would this work?
Anita Pilalis:Oh, why would you know?
Anita Pilalis:And I, and that's where I think we get manipulated, Cause he's the, he's the father of lies, he is the father of manipulation and trying to distort things, and I think that's where a lot of people get hung up on stuff, because he'd rather us argue about that stuff and the very small things rather than the things that will actually be fruitful and make us grow, which is like just sticking to God's word and actually believing it for what it is.
Anita Pilalis:I will say that you should go off of like translations for me personally, like that are easier to understand, like ESV or NIV versions, where you know it's not changing the word, the words aren't changing, and I also think what's good is to have like different versions of Bibles so that way you can kind of go back and see the, what it says in that one version versus this version, and you can see it's, the, the context is is the same. It might be just simple words that people are trying to make you know, stir something else and to to throw you off of from what the actual meaning of it is saying.
Rachel Wagner:I don't know if that makes sense.
Jason Wagner:Yeah, you just got an ESV study Bible, didn't you? Wasn't that what said yeah, I did, cause we had Kate Salas come on and she was messaging me and she actually recommended that I get a study Bible. And so, yeah, study Bibles are great, yeah.
Anita Pilalis:And I mean and that's the thing too is either you're going to believe that this is God's word and it's alive, and it's active, and it is real, or you're going to get hung up on the semantics of, oh well, this word, this translation says this and this one says that, and it was written over. If you could actually go, there's this one image. I don't know if you guys have seen it, I'll send it to you after, but it almost looks like a rainbow and it's all these little things connecting. Oh yeah.
Jason Wagner:You posted that. Saw this the other day.
Anita Pilalis:I was about to say, yes, you posted it and I was actually going to comment on it. That's one of my favorite things because it's so cool. If you actually listen to the, it's literally so many prophecies that came, and how many of the from the old Testament with the new Testament, how they connect with each other out of the times. It's been translated.
Anita Pilalis:Whether people want to say it's not word for word or whatever it might be, how is that possible? How is it possible for hundreds and hundreds of prophecies to come true and to connect thousands of years later, especially when, like, for example, when Paul was writing the word, the word wasn't even a word yet. You know what I mean and all these things like came to fruition. And so it's just people, I just think, want to get hung up on the smaller things that actually don't matter. Like, those things aren't what people should be hung up on, in my opinion. And if they do, and maybe it's somebody that God has gifted with the ability to make that case, but otherwise I think people get so hung up on that stuff where it's just, that's just. You're always going to have questions, no matter what we do, like always.
Jason Wagner:Well, Anita, that is such an easy explanation because it's all just a coincidence.
Anita Pilalis:Yeah, definitely See exactly.
Jason Wagner:I've got another coincidence in this life.
Anita Pilalis:Yeah, absolutely that's true. It's yeah, lots of coincidences.
Jason Wagner:Lots of coincidences, yeah, no. So I actually want to kind of I've been sharing that, I've been going on this faith journey and we're also going through, like this wild thing that's happening in our country right, With new presidents and new, new power right, so a lot of new things happening very quickly. That is upsetting one side and, and you know, and the other right, and I've had a couple of comments come my way, which has been interesting because and it's and it's been people that aren't agreeing with where we're going right now interesting because and it's, and it's been people that aren't agreeing with where we're going right now and and they have shared with me they're like you say.
Jason Wagner:you're a man of faith, but I can't believe you support this because of what's happening.
Rachel Wagner:Yeah.
Jason Wagner:It makes me just wonder like, well, do they, do they have a point? Is that something? Or is that a very low blow comment that you know? I should just kind of brush off and, like you know and rediscover. So there seems to be. You called it spiritual warfare. Is this, is that? Do you think that's part of it?
Anita Pilalis:Oh yeah, the enemy, like it's again, it's biblical he he comes to cause dissension between people, to cause he. He literally says, like that he's coming to like basically break apart families and things like that. And also I will say Jesus also said that he didn't come to bring peace, but also what's going to happen is mother against mother and our daughter-in-law, son against father, like things. Jesus himself causes disruption to the peace sometimes and he will cause disruption to families and friends, because he is the truth, the way and the life, and what Satan wants people to believe is that we are true and we are our way is the way and all ways lead to heaven. And you know, I think that's the thing. He's a master manipulator and he wants people to be angry with one another because that just causes more tension between each other and it's not going to cause people coming together for Christ.
Anita Pilalis:And so for me personally, I've seen Satan in all of this. It's been really interesting. But again, this is like a whole other thing. I can go down, but that's why I totally believe we're in that in times Like if this is like fourth quarter, we all are like gearing up, because it is one of those things where he's running rampant right now and a lot of people are believing his lies because a lot of people are choosing to choose their way versus the way, and so yeah, that's a really good way to put it.
Rachel Wagner:Their way versus the way yeah.
Anita Pilalis:It's, it's scary and like that's the thing, cause even like me, I posted something about the election. I just posted like about how so many people are putting their hope in Trump, so many people are putting their hope in Harris, so many people are putting their hope in a party versus a party and, at the end of the day, that's going to lead to literally nothing. That's going to lead to. I'm not saying like obviously we need people going for both parties and we need people advocating and doing the right things, but I'm saying if people aren't putting their hope in Jesus and if people aren't living their life for Jesus, like that that's all going to mean nothing. It's going to be absolutely nothing. So we need there's good people on both sides at the end of the day, and for somebody to accuse your character for believing in something that's opposite to them, I would say that they're completely wrong with that and I would say that's more of their character versus yours. It shows their ignorance versus whatever they were saying about you. Because I also had times during the election where I'm like gosh, like what side should I be going for? What am I? Am I voting for the right thing? Am I doing the right thing. And then I started questioning myself and I'm like no, this is exactly what Satan wants is for me to question my beliefs and what I? Okay.
Anita Pilalis:So I think we all have certain things that we're passionate about. You guys, are you passionate about 75 hard right? Like passionate about things like that, and like that's for you guys, that's going to be something that's that you know yields fruit right In your life, like a lot of good things came from that. Some other people will see certain things, like I'm saying for I don't, I'm not a political person, so but for their side that they're so convicted about and while that's great, sometimes we can also for certain things politically, I think we can lose sight of what the actual end goal is, which is eternity in heaven with Jesus. So I'm saying, like I think we need people to advocate for you know, certain things, like what you guys were saying 75 hard.
Anita Pilalis:I think people need to advocate for other things, like God has gifted people with the ability and the passions to do those certain things. And sometimes, though, we do get so convicted, thinking it's just like, oh, it's only this way and only that way, and obviously, if people knew you, they know they should be questioning your character of a person Like I see you as a father, as a husband, as somebody who's trying to genuinely help people. But I think there's again, I just think it's the enemy. I think he's like putting so many whispers in people's ears that they're only wanting to see their side. So when they see you speak of something that's not what they believe or that they think to be true, then they're going to automatically go at your character, which is what satan wants, and then you start questioning yourself, and then you, you digress, and then things don't happen, I don't know.
Anita Pilalis:Sorry, I talk a lot with that stuff.
Jason Wagner:No, that's all of a sudden. That makes a lot of sense yeah it makes a lot of sense. It's sometimes, I mean, for me right now it's like I believe in god, I believe in jesus, but I never really believed in satan because I, for some reason, I didn't really think that was.
Anita Pilalis:That's his biggest tactic right is literally for you not to believe in him. Interesting that's the scary part and like it sounds woo woo and it sounds like, okay, I need to like go take, like go calm down or something. But it is, is a real thing and I've heard that said before that like Satan's best tactic is literally you not believing in him and believing that he's not real. But if we have Jesus, we know there's an enemy and if and sin all started from him. So it's like if we don't, if we believe in one, you have to believe in the other, because that other is real and he is the ruler of this world, the world that we are in. That's why there's so much chaos, there's so much dissension, there's so much confusion.
Jason Wagner:He's the ruler of the world, yes, of this world.
Anita Pilalis:God has given him the power over this world, but obviously God has the ultimate power. But no, satan is. This is his kingdom, his world here, and Jesus's kingdom is everything, he's in charge of it all. But no, satan's kingdom is right where we're at. It's kind of scary, but again, the only person who can?
Anita Pilalis:yeah, the only person who can um, yeah no, the spiritual warfare stuff is is pretty intense when you actually start reading it and you're like, oh no, this is like a real thing. And when you start to identify it, you start to see his manipulations and lies and everything Like right now, the world that we're in, like trying to tear apart the family. That is his. Like he is doing work right now. Like he's doing work, but like I actually heard today I was. His name is Pastor Philip Mitchell. He's great, like he is on fire. He is bold, though Like he is bold, he's not for everybody.
Anita Pilalis:And he was saying because, obviously, with the family, super important, right, that's why I was so I'm so impressed that you're doing this, jason, because you, as the father and the leader of your household I don't know if you realize the impact that you're doing in your own home and then for all the people that are being influenced by you, by you know, your social media stuff, by your work, everything like that. But he was saying how a lot if Satan can tear apart the dad from the family, he's like already won a lot because the dad has such an important role there's. Actually I forget what the statistic is, but it says like if a mom learns the Bible and starts doing and starts following Jesus, there's a 17% chance that her kids will follow suit. Okay, if the dad does it, it's like 60 to like 80% higher. Wow, yeah.
Anita Pilalis:And that's because the male God designed the men to lead. And I again, totally contrary to our society. So it's, it's really a scary thing. But so he said this morning he was on a podcast episode I was listening to and he said how? So? God is our father, right? He's the father, the son and the Holy spirit. So our father, that's it. That's our first line with him as our. He's our father, right.
Anita Pilalis:So what if Satan goes into the home? Tears apart that father, not Jesus. But not Jesus, you know, father, son and Holy Spirit. Not that the earthly father. Okay, tears apart that family.
Anita Pilalis:Now this kid and the family will have this bad look of the father saying, gosh, my dad wasn't there for me. My dad was an alcoholic, my dad abused me. My dad was pretty terrible. So now I grow up believing that all fathers are bad. So when I hear again, tying it back to my own thing, when I hear, oh, your father in heaven, I'm like fathers, they're just, they abandon you, they're mean to you, they speak, lies over you. My whole life has been a trajectory of trying to figure out these father wounds that I've been given. Instead, what if I had a father who spoke life into me and was good to me and everything like that, and how much more I could. Well, I believe my story was meant to be my story, but what I'm saying is he was saying Satan attacks the father of the home.
Anita Pilalis:He's not only attacks the home, but he wants to attack the family. But he wants to attack the father of the home because if he can get the father, how much more he can get in the family? So again it goes back to where our world is right now. It is so messed up People are not even wanting to believe, like men are men and women are women, like he wants to just distort it all so that way he gets more people for hell.
Anita Pilalis:And so it's just a really interesting thing when, when you think, like it's cool to see you go through this kind of confusion, confusing journey, but also you're, you're hearing people go at your character too, for you know, having different political views from them which, if we can't disagree in this world, like yeah, that's that's pretty messed up, like, but anyway, so for me, I've just seen him written all over it, and so I, when I said something to my post about you know, it's not about Trump, it's not about Harris, but it's about Jesus and leading our waves, our lives, back to Jesus.
Anita Pilalis:Cause if we do gosh like, if people knew the peace that he gives you and and the comfort he can give you, that nothing literally not a million dollars, not a new car, not at all of that fades away, but Jesus is the one thing that remains, and I just don't think people realize that and that's why it breaks my heart. And so when I've seen people tearing apart other people's character which mine's been questioned too so I totally get that and I'm like no, like this is, this is exactly what Satan wants. And so that's why one of my favorite things this would be my like tip to you is James he's, I believe it's James. Now I'm like getting a little confused, but it's slow to speak, quick to listen and slow to anger, and that's like my favorite go-to when I'm oh hello, when I'm like in the moments of like just questioning, like how I want to respond to somebody, I'm like if I'm slower to speak what I want to say, cause my tongue wants to go like.
Anita Pilalis:I want to say something back and just like, especially if someone's like questioning your character, it's like you just want to let go. But then you're like think about it and you quick to listen, you hear the lies in it and then you see Satan in it and that's how you can respond, as Jesus would respond, versus how the world would respond, which is lashing back out with our words and things like that. Sorry, the hair is going over, yeah.
Jason Wagner:That's, you put a really fantastic perspective on it and actually it makes me think a lot about okay. So we talk about male figures in the household a lot. We've personally we've had a number of conversations about how we do kind of feel like there were political issues in this country that was actually designed to tear apart the households.
Anita Pilalis:Totally.
Jason Wagner:And in which may be stemming from Satan.
Anita Pilalis:Not, maybe I think it is yeah. I mean, as you're explaining that, I'm just like.
Jason Wagner:Right, just tying it together, right, yeah, yeah, I feel like you can were explaining that I'm just like I feel like you can.
Rachel Wagner:You can see that happening very clearly now. But even like looking back over history like you said, we've talked about it a lot I feel like when I first left my job to stay home, it was a total like it took me a really long time to get comfortable with that Like probably a year and a half to find comfort.
Rachel Wagner:And it was just like this constant internal struggle of like this is not what I was taught, this is not what I'm supposed to be doing. I wasted, you know, all this time and education, and I mean we're still paying student loans.
Anita Pilalis:So what am I?
Rachel Wagner:doing Just like it was such an internal struggle and like I am beyond that. And as I look back on it, I'm just like wow, like it was like a kind of like a purposeful. Absolutely I don't know where it stems from, but it was like a purposeful. What do I want to say? I don't want to say brainwashing that has such a negative connotation, but just like no, I mean kind of yeah.
Rachel Wagner:Yeah, like I had, there was a lot of undoing that had to be happening. And when I think about like my fulfillment now, my happiness now and the way I spend my day, it's I can't believe where I was before. You know it's.
Anita Pilalis:it's way more fulfilling now and I'm doing things like making sourdough bread you know making homemade crackers, and it sounds crazy, but like no, you're taking it back to the basics of life. And not only that, but like you're nourishing your family in a way that maybe you wouldn't have been able to do. So. The the family is so important. It is just like crucial that families stay together. But people like marriage rates are down, divorce rates are up, like just dysfunction in the household, and I and I did grow up having kids.
Jason Wagner:Yes, that's exactly it.
Anita Pilalis:And because people don't want to be kids.
Rachel Wagner:Well, because people don't want to be well, because people don't want to be hindrance, like they don't want the hit, like we're told it's a hindrance.
Anita Pilalis:It is a hundred percent. And, like I even heard on a not good show, you should not watch. That's just bad for your brain, but sometimes you need it. So there was this one show and the girl said I want more for my life than just having kids and taking care of them. And I was like who are you? Like? I was.
Anita Pilalis:I was so offended because I'm like, and I was going to David saying that he's yeah, so what's? He goes, that's what. That's what a lot of people want nowadays. They want this like yes, boss, lady, like go work, and I'm all for that If women want that, absolutely all for that. If women want that, absolutely, boss, lady, boss, man, whatever you want to do, go ahead and be successful in what you do, but make sure your home is in a good place too.
Anita Pilalis:And not only that, but kids are not a hindrance. You are literally discipling the next generation of Jesus followers. It's starting in the home. I think about how much stuff because I am in therapy. I go once every other week and it has been such a beautiful thing, but I have found so many things in my life that are have been hindering my growth in just life, because of all the trauma I had as a kid, I'm like it starts in the home and like, if we can like and again, if Satan can keep us in this place of just staying like really upside down, we're very much in an upside down kingdom.
Anita Pilalis:But if he can keep us in this place of just like women working all the time and not staying at home and thinking their kids are a hindrance and not growing families, like yeah, how much more is he doing? Like can he do you know? And it just I don't know. It freaks me out a little bit.
Rachel Wagner:I echo that a lot. I won't go into any specifics, but I we have had a lot of conversations about this too. Now, becoming a parent makes me so much more aware of how impactful my childhood experiences or traumas were and shaping how I view the world and how I respond to the world and how I'm parenting, and so I'm, I'm, I'm constantly, like you know, trying to readjust, and we I think I had very different childhoods, and so it's reflective of of how we parent and how we respond to the world and view the world, and it it does start at home.
Rachel Wagner:It's so important.
Anita Pilalis:Well it's. It's scary too, because I feel like so much of the world is like if it's not serving you, let it go. If it's no longer making you happy, let it go. Which is, like why do people divorce? Because marriage isn't easy, like I think we all know like nothing about marriage is easy and that's what I wish people would realize more. It's like it's work you have to put in work to make your family stay together and to sustain that good foundation. But like it's a scary thing because the world tells you gosh well, this life is short. If it's not making you happy, like, let it go.
Anita Pilalis:If it's not serving you like, let it go. And it's like no, that's, that's, that's lies, that's direct lies from the enemy. And this is how families are being torn apart rewarding things in life for the hardest.
Rachel Wagner:Oh yeah, absolutely work for them.
Anita Pilalis:Yeah, yeah but it's cool, like even we're hearing you guys say, like your daughters want to pray before dinner. Right is that from? I thought I heard that and like that's a cool, such a cool thing and like that's like a. I think that's absolutely beautiful because it made you even more want to know more about exactly like that's a really cool thing.
Anita Pilalis:And like I don't, I just it's a beautiful thing. Like, obviously, having kids is very hard and like staying at home, mom, is not glamorous it is not glamorous in any sort of way. And like that's the thing of like everyone thinks you know you should be, like, especially if you graduate from college, like you can be doing all these big things and like, yes, but this is really big what I'm doing right here. Because when you see those kids praying, when you see those kids worshiping God, when you see those kids doing nice things for a person across the street, like that is like what's fulfilling to the heart and that is something that is going to carry on for generations, versus like making a thousand extra dollars a month or something.
Rachel Wagner:I don't know. And if you're not doing it, you're handing it off to somebody else.
Anita Pilalis:You don't have to teach them, yeah you don't.
Rachel Wagner:You don't, and that was impactful for me when I started seeing that with like, really like homeschool moms too, of like, just saying, like you know, I'm outsourcing the parenting and the development of my child to somebody else and for some people that's great and for some people you know that works, yeah it has to be
Anita Pilalis:we want. No, Right. But that's the thing too is like I would say, like with being a Christian and I won't go off on too much a tangent but like it's hard because you're choosing the different route. A lot of times you're not conforming to the world. That's also another versus, like do not conform to worldly patterns and like we're not conforming to the world when we do decide to homeschool or stay at home or whatever it might be, because you're choosing what's best for you and your family and what God has led you to, and a lot of times it's different than what the rest of the world looks like, and so it can be really hard to step out and make those changes.
Anita Pilalis:Like you said, you faced a lot of those battles in your brain about whether or not the loans thing. What am I doing? Am I just throwing this away? Why did I even All this stuff? But now you're here and you see the fruit of your labor, of being at home with your kids and again, that's not for everyone, but like sometimes it takes us going off route and doing our, doing where God's leading us and doing something. That's maybe the more difficult or different route to get the fruit of that.
Jason Wagner:Can I ask you something? Yeah, okay. So we have a big challenge with choosing making the right decisions, and sometimes the way that parents are making these decisions are like we want to make them in the best decisions of our kids, but in the outside world, sometimes, if you're making the best decisions for your kids, well, you're actually impacting the other kids down the street or the kids that might be in that classroom. Specifically, I'm talking about like vaccinating your child versus not vaccinating your child.
Jason Wagner:Right, and there's a lot of confusion about it right now. Okay, how is somebody supposed to look at and how is God supposed to help us make this decision on what we should do in these moments, if we're being pulled towards one way, maybe more of our heart, or? What we believe our gut right, but others may look that it could impact the people down the street or the other people in that classroom, right.
Rachel Wagner:Yeah.
Jason Wagner:Any advice on that.
Anita Pilalis:I wish I had great advice for that, but I don't. I would say, like you said, you said something about your gut intuition. To me that is something that, again, that's like taking working through therapy and is realizing that gut intuition that God has given me, to trust that, like God's given us our and we can't tell people what might work for our child might not work for their child because they might have special needs and our child might not have special needs. But what you can do is you have your area of influence with your own children and while people might say that might impact their children in whatever way, them swearing in their home might impact my child too. Like there's a lot there could.
Anita Pilalis:If you had to think of every you know. Or just like I'm trying to think of the word but I can't think of it. But if every consequence of a decision that you made you'd go nuts. That's not. That's so for me personally. And how I make those bigger decisions is I pray about it all the time. I pray about the things that are affecting me and pray about the things that are that I'm feeling compelled about. So, for example, if vaccinations is something that you're feeling placed on your heart that either you don't want your daughters or you do want your daughters to be vaccinated. I would pray about that to God and yes, I understand everyone's perspective of that. It might affect the child on the street who, if your kid gets, I don't even know what the things are anymore at this point because everything is.
Anita Pilalis:But I would say that's a conversation that you can have with God and let God play something on your heart and let him either confirm what you're feeling or lead you in a different direction, because you're never going to have a hundred percent one way or the other, because I think there are a lot, of, a lot, a lot, a lot of bad things in vaccine vaccines and in our, in the pharmaceutical companies and other things like that.
Anita Pilalis:But then there are some children who absolutely have to have it. So it's like there's never going to be a right way or wrong way. But what you can do is just focus in on your own family's influences Because I hate to say it, I mean you're just going to love your neighbor absolutely 100%, but you can't have every perspective at you. There's no way you're going to be able to make a decision. There's always going to be something else. So I just think, focusing on, first and foremost, your relationship with God and talking about it and letting him confirm in your heart where he wants you to go with that and then making the decision for your own family, not based on other people.
Jason Wagner:Is there a biblical stance on that?
Anita Pilalis:And vaccines? Yeah, I don't know. That's a great question. I haven't looked at far enough into that. I'm sure there probably is something that you could find to confirm it one way or the other but I do.
Rachel Wagner:I'm sorry no.
Anita Pilalis:I will say I I believe that God designed our bodies perfectly Like. I believe that God designed our bodies perfectly like, and we're all going to go through certain things based on how he's laid out our stories. That being said, I, I think I am. I I'm just more of a natural person. I, I just I prefer the natural route more than anything, because I do believe he's designed us in such a way to do so with things here on earth, like herbs and and and things of this earth that he can provide us with. But that would just be my own personal perspective and again, my own opinion, which doesn't matter.
Rachel Wagner:It's interesting. We were talking about this a lot yesterday. We're we're in a little bit of a decision mode with this pregnancy. Without going into like too many details, we have to make a decision on whether or not I'm going to accept a certain product which I have in the past with my other two daughters. But things have changed for us quite a bit and I I'm toying with the, the pressure of the, you know the doctors being like, well, if you have this, everybody gets this. This is just how it is. We don't even really have that much data to support, if you don't, you know this, this kind of fear mongering, pressure Versus.
Rachel Wagner:I had this moment with Jason yesterday. I'm just like you know, I I just don't think that God would have created such a weird moment. And then I was like, well, I can't believe it just came out of my mouth, where I was just like I just don't think God would have made it possible for us to have a life if I needed to have this other thing in there in order to protect this life and this life going forward like I, I just don't know that I believe that I mean I was like okay, I'm not, you know, it's like this internal struggle of like it's so different thinking than what I've had in the past.
Rachel Wagner:But I don't know if you want to go into detail or not.
Jason Wagner:Well, yeah, well, ultimately, I mean, the decision here is that you know rachel's obviously pregnant and she's doing may, yep, and you know she's going to doctor and so there's these things that she has to do and so. But the risk at which we're being told about is that, well, it may not impact this pregnancy but it may impact your next one, Right? So we have two kids right now We'll we'll have our third. And then it's like, oh well, we're like, right now, that's, that's a lot, Right. And you know, we didn't even have any mid decision if we were going to have four kids. I guess I also like just kind of took, took a step back and I was just like, well, if God wants us to have a fourth child, he'll have. He'll let us have a four child, and if not, then he won't.
Anita Pilalis:And that's surrendering to him and that's humbling yourself before him and being okay with his decisions. So that's what kind of made me think of when you were saying that was, ultimately, you kind of have to come down to do I trust God or do I not? So, with what he's laying on your heart, specifically, if he's telling you not to do something, or if he's telling you to do something and you feel it, and that's that intuition inside of you that's telling you one way or the other, you got to either trust that either God's going to handle it or he's not. And that's the thing. And then I mean also, it's nice, obviously, you have facts. Now you can look at stuff and read stuff and figure it out for yourself and and investigate things for yourself. But I would say that is like that is the one thing that I have found comfort in with basically everything.
Anita Pilalis:Every decision I've been making in life now is like okay, god, I've, I've, I've come to you, I've done, I've done what I'm supposed to do, I'm supposed to be talking to you. Right, I go to, I go to him, I talk to him, I go through, I have that prayer conversation, and that is something that's most important to me. But then also, going back to his word, his word is alive and it is active and he will lead you to things in ways that you don't even realize, sometimes when you're asking for certain things. That has been one of, like, the many coincidences in my life that, like it's so cool because I will be praying specific about something and I'm not joking you I'll open up his word and the next morning it's like, and I'll just be in my daily reading of, like whatever I specifically had not seeking out anything specific, and it'll answer the exact question that I'm looking for. It is wild how he does that, but that is one of those things where and it's that double-edged sword thing where he has, like his word will pierce you in a way where you're like whoa, how did you do that? Is anyone else around me right now, did you? Did anyone else like, see that? Like what just happened?
Anita Pilalis:And so I think in those making those decisions, yeah, pray about it, go to his word and then rest in the decision that you make, rest in it and cause, cause. Satan wants you to go back and forth, back and forth, back and forth, back and forth, and and ultimately be freaked out about your decision, just make a decision and then just do it and then deal with the consequences when it happens, whereas Jesus is like no, come to me, talk to me about it, be my word, learn who I am, and then you'll start to decipher what's more from Jesus and what's more from the world. You'll start to be able to tell what is coming from the word and what is coming from the world. So the coolest thing is, when you start to decipher between those two, your decisions will become more easy, because you'll start understanding no, I think this is from God, and then rest in that and submit it to him, and he already has it planned out anyways, you know. So it's easier said than done. It's easier said than done.
Jason Wagner:That's really beautiful. Yeah, I want to talk about a little bit about like more fear, because you wrote it. You wrote a great piece that was in your blog, which is super cool, thanks, and I can just tell that you just you write all that stuff right oh yeah, okay, it's not.
Anita Pilalis:I have so much stuff written, but I I got to a point where I'm like I should probably just put it somewhere instead of just at my google docs yeah, yeah, okay.
Jason Wagner:So tell the story about the boat and stepping out on the boat and walking on water, right? So tell that story.
Anita Pilalis:Well, one of my favorite well, I have so many, but one of my favorite stories is when Peter is in the boat and they see Jesus walking on water and they're like everyone's freaked out Cause they're like, okay, is he, is Jesus walking in water? Is he walking? And it was like the water, the waves were coming. I mean, you'd be freaked out if you saw that. And Jesus tells Peter to come and he has his hand out and so Peter steps out onto the water and he goes to towards Jesus and then his fear hits him rather than his faith and then he starts the sink. And that's one of my favorite stories because, first of all, I just it. Peter gets like a lot of rap. I feel like in the Bible, like a lot of people are. I was like, oh, okay, peter, like here we go again. And it's so good, because I'm like, no, he's so bold, like he, he does act a little bit more before he thinks, which, like I think we all can relate to. But he's, he was so bold enough to step out onto that water.
Anita Pilalis:But the moment all the fears of, oh gosh, I'm walking on water right now. This isn't real. How can this be happening? How am I seeing a float? All these things start to come into his mind and, instead of having that faith and keeping his eyes on Jesus and being like I can come to you, jesus, because you are God, and if I'm going to walk on water and you tell me I'm going to walk on water, everything else got to him the waves got to him, the weather got to him. The guys that are in the boat still because they were too afraid to step out of the boat are still in the water or, sorry, are like he's on the water and they're in the boat, so it's like he's.
Anita Pilalis:All the fears start to get him and he starts to sink. And so I think that was one of the things that has always hit me, because I'm like, gosh, he actually stepped out, though, like he actually took a step of faith, and while, yes, people sometimes are like, oh well, he was so afraid and you can't be like Peter, you can't be afraid, and blah, blah, blah, but he had enough strength and faith to step out of the boat, which all the others can't say. That you know, and it's just it. You know, and it's just, it's just a good realization of like, yeah, if we're not keeping our eyes fixed on Jesus, and if we're not focusing on him, all that fear will get to us and we'll start to sink, you know. So I don't remember what else I wrote in there, though.
Jason Wagner:I think people are just so consumed with fear right now there's just so much fear that's
Jason Wagner:being fed and fear, fear sells, fear really sells. And especially right now it's just like again with the whole change of power thing. It's like, oh no, you know, I'm so fearful for my life now, even like, and it's. And it's amazing how fear can just consume you and then prevent you from thinking logically you were doing going to your job or like functioning and so I guess it's just kind of like trying to help those people that might be kind of suffering from some of that.
Anita Pilalis:Yeah, and I I would say so. This is something I heard a while ago which I agree with, and I, like I don't know if it's I disagree, but I just see a different perspective. They say that fear and faith cannot exist at the same time. It's something in your brain either you're being more fearful or you're being more faithful, but the one that they can't coexist at the same time, it's something in our brain. I am not a science person, so I do not know how it works, but it's something that it can't exist at the exact same time. One either is going to outweigh the other. So the way that I see it, though, is like I do have a lot of fears, like I would be lying if I didn't say that I have a lot of fears, but one thing I do know is that my faith when I'm fearful, my faith is the one thing that's going to get me through that. So my faith, as long as it outweighs the fear, I I think they can go coexist at the same time, but I know that my faith is gonna is. As long as I don't let that fear hold me down from doing things, then I think it's okay that they can exist, because you know fear is okay to have, it's okay Like we're made up to. You know, just like anxiety, like it's okay to have some anxiety, like it's good, so we don't like go into a storm, you know, not afraid and stuff like that, like it's good to have a healthy amount of it, but like, even with fear, like I think it's okay to have a healthy amount of it.
Anita Pilalis:But the one thing that we have to remember is Jesus does tell us do not be afraid. I forget how many times I mean, they say he says a ton in the Bible, like even in the old Testament, and do not be afraid, do not be afraid, do not be afraid. And that is the one thing that I have to remember with things in this life because it will hold us back from, I think, tons of things. There's so many things, like even this blog stuff, like I feel so silly doing it because I'm just like it just seems so, like I'm like nobody wants to care what you're saying, but I'm just like no, if God's, if God is pursuing me to do this and encouraging me to do it, I need to do it and not be afraid, because what I am more afraid of is God and not like in a fearful way of like God is scary and everything.
Anita Pilalis:No, I it's like a reverent fear of him, like I want to. It's like you don't want like somebody you really love and respect, like you don't want to disappoint them, you don't want to go against what they say, because you love them and they respect them. But we are to fear God, but not fear things of this world, because God controls it all. You know, and we either believe that or we don't. So that's where the whole fear and faith thing come into play. So I don't know.
Anita Pilalis:I love it Well I just think of this world too. Right now. I think it is a. We're living in a very fear based world and we could always live like that, though, like everything we could always live off of like what if this, what if that? And, to be quite frank, I Like everything we could always live off of. Like what if this, what if that? And, to be quite frank, I have been a fearful and anxiety ridden person most of my life and I like if I chose to live off of that way, I wouldn't be doing things like talking about God or serving in our church and I wouldn't be praying for people and I wouldn't be. I wouldn't get to see the fruits of what I'm doing. If I let the fear hold me back and I think that's where people have to realize is like we can be afraid of everything if we want, but I'd rather be afraid of God in a reverent way, not in a I'm so scared of you, god, like in a I want to do your will, god, type of way.
Jason Wagner:So I don't know no-transcript.
Anita Pilalis:Like I will do it. Like it's just like I. He has lit a fire in me.
Jason Wagner:So you were really looking forward to today then.
Anita Pilalis:Yes, but well, well, so I was scared, the fear thing.
Anita Pilalis:Okay, I was scared because I was like, well you're, what if you say something stupid? What if people think you said this or maybe you say something wrong, and it's just like humanly fear. But I also realized yesterday I was thinking about it and I was at one of my bible studies at church and she said something about our pride and how we're either gonna let like the opinions of the world get in the way and like that comes back to like a pride thing for ourself. Are we worried about how we're either going to let like the opinions of the world get in the way and like that comes back to like a pride thing for ourself. Are we worried about how we're going to look with the world and all that stuff, or we're going to do God's will and let God lead us and guide us and things. Instead of being so worried about what people are saying about us, instead we should be more worried about if we're doing God's will and we're actually following his plan for our life. So I was afraid of doing this, but I love talking about God. But I kept thinking to myself. I'm like, okay, how do I combat this fear that I'm having about talking about you in a way that's being recorded where other people are going to hear it, and I just kept thinking that's coming from Satan too. He's so good with his whispers Cause he knows. This is the one thing that, especially if you don't study spiritual warfare, like you don't realize, like it's not necessarily Satan himself, it's his army that he has. I know it sounds woo woo, I know it, but he studies you, so you'll notice, you'll start to notice when you start realizing things. You're like wait a second. Like it's like he studies your insecurities so well that he knows exactly what to put in your mind when you are about to just step out in faith and to do something. He will put all those exact insecurities so for me.
Anita Pilalis:My dad told me I was a mistake growing up. He was like you weren't meant to be born. He didn't want to come to my birth. He was already so far gone by the time I was born. He was a full-blown alcoholic, and so he just pretty much didn't want me to exist. So for so much of my life I believed you don't belong to this friend group, you don't belong to this town, you don't. You're a good soccer player, but you don't belong on the team you like. So I had all these lies that were constantly going in and I would, I still did the things, but I still had that back lie of like I always felt like a fraud, like I didn't belong. Which is kind of brings me to today, where I was like, no, anita, you like.
Anita Pilalis:I still hear those things where I'm like, no, you don't belong talking about God because you didn't grow up in a Christian household and you are quite a sinner, and like people can see right through that, you know, and but those again, those are the lies of the enemy, which is exactly what he wants. So I think, replacing those fears that we have with God's truth and realizing, no, that's not coming from God. So when I want to come here and talk about God, no, I need to think about your conversations with God. You've been praying about this, about more opportunities to talk about God, people hungering and thirsting for the Lord and being able to assist in that and share what he's done with me.
Anita Pilalis:I'm totally big on people sharing their testimonies and sharing their stories and stuff like that, because it will help other people, whether that's one person in another country or whatever it might be, but if it helps one person, that's one more person for heaven. You know what I mean. So it's like, I think, when we do have those fears and we're getting so afraid, it's like we have to combat it with no. What would God say about this? And how do we know what God would say about it? We go to his word and then we also go to like mentors in our life and people who are discipling us and people who are, you know, far above us in their spiritual journey and kind of get affirmation from them that hey, is this, is this something I should be afraid of, or should or like, and then they can help affirm like whether that's from God or whether that's like from something else. I don't know if that answers what we were talking about.
Jason Wagner:Yeah, it totally does. I also want to ask you, because you talk about the woo-woo stuff a little- bit which is interesting. You acknowledge that Because for somebody that doesn't believe, it's very easy for them to be like oh you're woo-woo. But you shared an amazing meme the other day which was like never thinking I was going to be the crazy Jesus lady, and now I'm totally the crazy Jesus lady.
Anita Pilalis:I actually made that one.
Jason Wagner:Did you make that? Yeah, I used the video. That was amazing.
Anita Pilalis:Well, it's funny because my sister sent it to me and she's like she goes. Haha, I just sent this one to you. I was like, yeah, I just made it Like I use the lady, obviously, and then I put the words on it but yes, no. So anyways, yeah, I'm that lady now.
Jason Wagner:And you and you just live into it.
Anita Pilalis:Yeah, well, now I'm just like because it's one of those. So I had a step grandma growing up that anytime we'd say, oh my God, she'd be like God has nothing to do with us. And I was like, okay, lady like you are a crazy Jesus lady, and then all of a sudden I'm like I just remember I was like sitting there.
Anita Pilalis:No, I'm like I'm that crazy Jesus lady. I'm that, that person that my family rolls their eyes at when I start talking about God again, or I bring up like church, or I bring up like I know people have, I know people unfollow me, and I know people have talked about me behind my back, about like, okay, anita, like whatever Cause, they just don't know it. And that's also something that I've had to. I lean into it now because I'm like at the point where, okay, I know biblically it's biblical truth that people who don't know God, their eyes are closed when they're conforming to the patterns of this world. Their eyes are closed, their ears are closed, they can't see, but we are there to help them see. And so that's why I'm like no, like salvation is urgent, like it is an urgent issue, especially right now. And so now I'm at the point where I'm like I'm no longer afraid of the world, I'm no longer afraid of what people are saying behind my back yes, it comes, it creeps up but I'm more afraid of, like, there is this beautiful story, so I'm more afraid of people not going to heaven.
Anita Pilalis:So, like, honestly, there was a beautiful story of this guy who's talking. He's like you know, he's going to heaven. One guy's going to hell and they cross each other's path and they say, well, where are you going? And he said, well, I'm going to heaven. And then he realized he's going to hell. He's like, well, how did you get to heaven? And he goes well, I believe in Jesus and Jesus, blah, blah him. If you knew about him. And then he's like well, I was too afraid. He said, you were too afraid to tell me about heaven. So now I'm going to hell because you were too afraid to talk about it. And then he's like imagine having that conversation with somebody that you loved, that you loved, but you couldn't have that conversation because you were too afraid of what they might say or you were afraid of offending them. And with everyone is afraid of offending everybody nowadays because you get canceled in like two seconds.
Anita Pilalis:So it just got to the point where I'm like, no, I can't worry about the world anymore, like this is, this is so temporary compared to eternity. So for me, like there's a verse that it talks about how beautiful are the feet of those who bring the good news? And I'm like, no, we need to all bring the good news, like now. I'm like realizing like the time for salvation is now, it's an urgent issue and people need to get right. Like people need to be, their eyes need to be open.
Anita Pilalis:But it also said but how will they not know if they don't hear, and how, how are they to like understand that if no one tells them about it? So someone has to. And so that's where, like, my heart now is like oh yeah, I guess I'm okay, I'll be in the crazy Jesus lady. That is the badge I will wear at this point. I'm like, all right, I'll take it and I will run with it, because I'm like I'd rather be that and live in truth than than live in a false reality of, like, what people are living in right now.
Jason Wagner:So it seems that there is a big wave of people going back to faith.
Anita Pilalis:Yeah, awesome.
Jason Wagner:I saw. I saw it was a stat of like Bible sales are at all times. And so what do you think that is, and how does that kind of, does that give you more enthusiasm?
Anita Pilalis:Oh yeah, I think there's definitely a revival in the nation, especially among college age students. You can totally see that, which is just amazing, because that's what we need is the next generation to come up and make these big changes, especially in the home. I think that's really awesome. What I hope for is discipleship to happen in that. So people like you guys right now you're like no, I want to get back into my faith that there are people who come alongside you and help you and aid in that. So people like like you guys right now, like you're like no, I want to get back into my faith that there are people who come alongside you and help you and aid in that.
Anita Pilalis:Because it's so hard, like the Christian walk is not easy and I think it's really hard. And I think people assume that once you come to Christ, like everything's gonna be great, and it's not. Actually, life might actually become more hard because you have more of an enemy against you. Because if you're not doing anything, if everything's so great, sometimes what that means is the enemy doesn't see you as a threat, so he's not going to come after you. He's like no, you keep doing your thing, you're good. But if you're like influencing people and actually bringing people to Christ. He's going to come after you and he doesn't want more people coming to Christ. Whoa, yeah, so that, but whoa yeah, wow, that's discerning yeah that makes a lot of sense.
Anita Pilalis:It does make a little bit of sense like okay, so you're, you're on, you play football. You're like you know who's a weak, the weak player, who's a good player. You're gonna go after the good player, you're not gonna go after the weak player. Yeah, yeah, why, right? Waste your time, waste your energy? No, right, yeah, it's got bigger fish.
Jason Wagner:right, exactly, you put the target on the bigger guys back. Yeah, I had an interesting moment that's happened, so we've had. We've had a lot of good things happen lately and then all of a sudden, just recently, you know, I bought a. So we're big in real estate right.
Jason Wagner:And so we do. We rent out properties and stuff. And this one building we bought, you know, last year started out, you know plan was working and then all of a sudden, literally just like this last two months is like we've got three out of five people not paying us rent. Right.
Jason Wagner:And it's like I was thinking about this and I'm like, boy, that's a, that's kind of a big problem. And I'm like, okay, don't worry, it's just another you know hurdle I'm going to have to figure out. But I was literally thinking about this this morning as I'm texting these tenants to like hey, where's your rent?
Jason Wagner:I'm just like you know what. I think that this is just another challenge that God is like literally putting in front of me to figure out, and like he's just challenging me, or or you're. You're potentially saying or it's, it's Satan trying to take you down a little bit because you're trying to influence a few people to rediscover their faith.
Anita Pilalis:It could be both. And do you guys? Are you familiar with the book of Job in the Bible?
Jason Wagner:I've heard of it, but I don't know much yeah.
Anita Pilalis:So the book of Job is tough. He loses everything, like. So essentially it starts with Satan and God having a conversation and God was like have you heard of my disciple Job Like? And he's like no, like have you heard of my disciple Job Like, and he's like no, like it doesn't have to be like that? But he's like no, and he's like, oh well, like you can throw anything at him and he's not going to leave me, type of thing. So essentially, god literally handed him over and said he said you can do anything, but you can't take his life.
Anita Pilalis:And so Job goes through terrible things in life and he was a faithful servant of God's and he goes through really hard things in life and loses his whole family, loses his yeah, his children, loses, I think it's like all his livestock, like, all this stuff, like it's. It's a very sad book and you see him go through this wrestling back and forth with God where he's trying to figure out, like God, why are you allowing this to happen and all this stuff? That being said, it takes sometimes, I think, in life God does. Let us go through trials and circumstances that will help ripen us towards the gospel and he will help us in growing closer to him, but also like if everything was so great all the time, you wouldn't be going to God. You wouldn't, you don't need God. If everything's so great, you don't need him at all. But sometimes we have to go through trials and circumstances in order to get us closer to God. And not only that, but again we know we have an enemy, so he will come on hard. So nothing Satan can do in this world he can do without permission from God. So God is allowing these circumstances to happen, and that is probably a testing of your faith. But I think that is also a yeah, especially right now, because you guys are like getting closer to Christ. I think chances are more things will be harder than easier.
Anita Pilalis:But now you have a place of rest to go to and to find your comfort and to either trust that God's going to get you through it and he's going to figure out a way, or you're going to rely on your own self. You're either going to die to self or you're going to pick up his cross, pick up your cross for him. So and that's what's the hard thing Cause it is true, guys, I mean, like it is, it is very scary, but it's also a huge comfort in knowing, no, god's got my back. Like while, while Satan has the reins right now, like in this, like world, god ultimately holds those over everything. So like we can either trust that or we don't, but like we know that this life isn't an easy Christian walk.
Anita Pilalis:I mean, if you look at all the disciples, I mean they all died really bad deaths, I think, except for John maybe. I mean like they were martyred, like it was bad, but we know that. We know what our end goal is, which is heaven. So it's like, yes, it's kind of scary, you can get scared by that, but also you can be just really trusting in the fact that god's going to get us through it and it's not going to always be like that, but that's just like the the reality of this world. So I think your circumstances could definitely be god's allowing that to happen and maybe he's testing your faith and seeing where you're at. But I also think Satan doesn't want you to. He would rather you start to flounder and go back to your old way versus Jesus way. So I think it's a test for sure.
Jason Wagner:That's really interesting.
Rachel Wagner:Yeah, it's really interesting too, cause I feel like that first week that we did go back to church and a couple of weeks after that, there were just so many great things that were kind of like flying at you, and I remember you having this reflection of like, look at this, look at this, look at this, like all this is happening, like right after I went to church and then I feel like January hit.
Rachel Wagner:We had a really rough. Rough January, like illness wise. There were just a lot of challenges that were being thrown at us. And now there's real estate challenges and it's like well, that's a really interesting reflection to have.
Anita Pilalis:Well, I do think, yeah, it's one of those things I think he wants to encourage us, but then he also the reality of okay, you're encouraged, your faith is there. Now we need to see if your faith is actually going to flourish or if it's going to falter and go back.
Rachel Wagner:Well, that's like how I felt yesterday when I was sharing. It was just like, when it came out of my mouth, I was just so shocked by you know. It was like it really wasn't coming from me. Yeah, it was like it was coming from the Holy Spirit. Yeah, just like I actually feel this immense amount of comfort in like this decision that is so different from what I've always thought and done before. Um, that was just kind of like overcoming the fear Cause the night before I had been up for hours just fretting about it and so stressed, and I'm just like you know what, at the end of the day, I don't really think that this is how it would go.
Anita Pilalis:And that's the whole resting. Yeah, I mean we need to learn as a society, but also just individually, to rest in God, to rest in His promises, to rest in His peace, and that's the one thing I mean. I tell myself, so I would say I've you know, so I accepted.
Jason Wagner:Christ as a sophomore, which was I don't even know how old are you as a sophomore. As a sophomore, we were probably 19 or 20.
Anita Pilalis:Yeah, right, okay, so 19 or 20. And then so that was 2010, probably 20, 2009, 2010. So I I that's when I accept him. But when I started actually living my life out for him was 11 years ago and with that I still struggle with resting in God's promises and who he is. But that's why it's so important that we read his word, because sometimes it is hard to read his word, obviously, but getting into a routine of finding time where you and God can have that alone time and focusing in on that and praying to him and having uninter and having uninterrupted prayer where not like kids are screaming and all that stuff, which is hard. But that's why I wake up at five in the morning, cause I'm like I can't do it otherwise. I literally can't, and it has been so nourishing to my soul to just like be able to have that rest with him and just be like God. I'm so scared of this. I'm. This is happening. This is happening. Why is this happening? Why are you allowing this to happen?
Anita Pilalis:And he can take that and that's what the best part is. It's like he can hear us, Like he knows our thoughts before we say them, like he knows your worries and your concerns with that, but like resting in the decision that you make and then just letting it like be with him, and then if God brought, bring something else up to you to like go a different route, then let that be. But like for right now, just like resting in that decision. And I love how you said like he gave it's almost like he gave you the words to speak, and that's what's cool, is like having the Holy Spirit does intercede for us and it's just, it's so incredible. But it's one of those things that's like you don't know it until you experience it yourself and it's like gosh. That and it's like gosh. That's what I just pray for so many people.
Rachel Wagner:Can I ask you a little bit about, as you're talking about the word and what the word says. So I mentioned we have two church experiences and one of the reflections that we had after we left because I don't always see it when we're there, it's like in the afterwards when we're talking about it and kind of dissecting what was shared I realized that two big differences between the two and, in fairness, we haven't been to the one.
Anita Pilalis:We only, we've only been once.
Rachel Wagner:So we need to continue to go a little bit more and see how it goes. But after that first service I left and we were just kind of like an interesting distinction is the one church that we're going to kind of shares, it talks about the verse and then there's like interpretation that kind of goes with it, but it feels very like open-ended and how you, how you take it and what it means for you. Versus this other service we went to like I would argue, is probably more biblically based. There was a little bit less interpretation but stronger in what it meant, if that makes sense. Like it was almost like it was like telling you what the word was and how to take it, versus this other service was like well, how do I like we left being like, well, how do you like you could go either way with it? So how do you know which is the right way?
Anita Pilalis:So I with that. I would say a pastor's job is to teach the word. Okay, so he, a pastor's job is to teach the word. But also for a lot of us, like a lot of people, it could be their first time in church you need more direction sometimes and I think as a pastor I'm not a pastor but I'm saying like as a pastor, I think his job, his or her job, is to lead us in where the Bible is taking us. So I do think it needs a little bit more distinction, like obviously they're all going to.
Anita Pilalis:I think most churches are, for the most part, going to try to be politically correct and not being like you have to be this way or this way or whatever you know unless I mean that could become more cult-like. If you're like saying you have to do this or do that, but I would say so this goes back to like the choosing a good church If you hear the word and they preach and you can understand what they're saying. If there's confusion, I don't know if I would prefer to keep going back to a church where I'm confused at the end of it being like well, how am I supposed to take that? I think there needs to be more distinction and some more definitive stuff.
Anita Pilalis:Now again, they can't be like vaccinate your kids, don't vaccinate your kids. They're not going to do that, because that's not. That's also not Christian. Like to be like you have to do this way. That's a dictatorship, like you know, but like you should have be be able to walk out of that and feel pretty. I mean, there's always going to be room for questions, which is good, because you should be able to do that, and then you should be able to go back and dig into the word and figure that out for yourself and how you want to. But I don't know if I would feel like I'd want to keep going back to church if I was confused each time after.
Rachel Wagner:I appreciate that because I feel like I didn't leave being like they were telling me to do this or telling me how to apply it. It was just. This is what it says.
Anita Pilalis:And this is what he was saying, and that's what I like.
Rachel Wagner:Yeah, so that's, I appreciate that.
Anita Pilalis:I like. I like more direct stuff and like because Sorry, the one that we've only gone to.
Jason Wagner:One is that that's what you would appreciate more. Is that what you're saying?
Rachel Wagner:Yeah, okay, because I left knowing what the message was.
Jason Wagner:So versus like yeah, so so like an example of what the was, that in which I thought it was to go to your comment more strong, you could also say more extreme, and it was. You know people. You should not dine with people that are but it wasn't that.
Rachel Wagner:It wasn't them telling us that we shouldn't dine with people who are sexually immoral.
Jason Wagner:That's what it was immoral but it wasn't saying that.
Rachel Wagner:It was saying this is what.
Anita Pilalis:Oh, I know what you're talking about. Yeah, yeah, it was like that was a message.
Rachel Wagner:Is that way.
Jason Wagner:Oh, I think so. Yeah, I think that's what it was, yeah.
Rachel Wagner:Yeah, and so he was talking about the conversation shouldn't do this, it was just.
Jason Wagner:This is what they say. This is what they say Okay, yeah, okay, that's how I should say it too yeah, yeah.
Rachel Wagner:Cause it's different, Like cause, otherwise you're like it is kind of cult Like if you're saying you should not be dining with people.
Jason Wagner:And that's the way that I kind of I kind of took it you know and see, and that's what I would say, even like okay.
Anita Pilalis:So you guys have tried two churches, try three, try four, yeah, and I know it sounds like.
Anita Pilalis:But so my church that we go to, I we are, our church is in naperville. We live in geneva, so it's a good 20 minute, 25 minute drive and but it's because we are going to that church beforehand but again, kind of going back to like the I guess we kind of diverged quite a bit, but biblically based is number one, from David and I, that's most important. Number two is kids ministry, because our kids are huge for us. So knowing it's a safe ministry, knowing that they're teaching our kids the same things, and having a kid's ministry, I think is super important, like to not have to sit with your kids during a service, because that can be super distracting. And this is your time to be able to like hear a word from a teacher who is a pastor, teaching you about God's word, so the word. So I would say, if you're not a hundred percent sold on either of those two churches while you've given them a few shots, maybe try another church and I, I personally like more of a contemporary one. That's not so like.
Anita Pilalis:So you guys grew up in a Catholic church and I know that works for some people. I know it does Cause I've met many Catholic people who are very devout and I know their relationship with God. That being said, that doesn't work for me. Like I've gone to Catholic churches, it feels to, everything, feels very like you know, yes, and I I can't do it because I don't work that way and I don't like, I don't feel closest to God there. But I would say, like, try a church where you're like.
Anita Pilalis:For me and I I've told my sister this before in the past I was like, eventually you're, you'll get to a point where your relationship with God and how you worship him is going to be more important than how other people do so, like, for example, like if you're going to a Catholic church because that's what you grew up in but it doesn't work for you, eventually you'll get to a point where it's more important for you to go to a place that's going to work best for you in your relationship with God.
Anita Pilalis:And for me that's like where I can lift my hands and I'll praise God and stop worrying about the people around me and having good worship to him and then hearing a good word that is biblically based, that is not like saying I have to do this or have to do that, but also like that is God's word, and then there should always be room for interpretation, I think. I think that's just like natural you know to be a human to be able to interpret something differently but like I feel like you should leave a service being like, okay, that's what I heard, and if you're confused about it that's why there's the pastor you can reach out to them and say I'm a little confused on how you said this, you know, but I think a lot of us are afraid to like disrupt other people and like bother them by like sending them emails or questions or stuff. You know, but how are you going to learn otherwise?
Rachel Wagner:Yeah, so I don't know. I appreciate the take on the children's ministry too, because they're also like pretty they both offer that and it's both there. But size wise and community feel for the kids is very different. And then the other church that was a little more, I think, vague in the messaging, has a wonderful like children's environment and community for them. And so that's hard because I I want them to have that and I see the value of that for them and certainly for us sitting in service, not like yeah, totally.
Jason Wagner:I mean, it's hard. It's the difference between more of a large-scale church and a small-scale church.
Rachel Wagner:And contemporary versus more traditional Right. You know 300 people there versus 30.
Jason Wagner:Yeah, maybe 30.
Anita Pilalis:Wow, that's a big difference.
Anita Pilalis:Yeah, a huge difference, and I think there's pluses and minuses to both, Because my church is pretty big and I love my church I really do but sometimes I think about man. It would be sweet to be in a little bit smaller where you feel like you're seen a little bit more with the congregation and you see them more and you know them more and you can invite them over for dinner more. I do think there's such a beauty in smaller churches too. I think there's a plus to both. But also I think, that being said, you know it takes like our effort as church members to serve at church, to get involved in groups, to also put ourselves in those situations, to grow in community with others, Because we need community. Like we cannot do it, Like it's too hard, I think. But again, that's where a lot of people's hurt comes from. Is the church hurt from? So it's a tough thing to figure out.
Jason Wagner:That's where a lot of the hurt comes from.
Anita Pilalis:I think a lot of people have church hurt. So I think, like like, where people were hurt by people in the church, like so, or they were grew up seeing like. For me, like you know the hypocrisy that I saw growing up, like so I saw people going to church but then doing things that they shouldn't do. But at the time, again, I wasn't a Christian, so I didn't understand that we all sin and we all have to repent and we all make mistakes and that's why Jesus was the only perfect one. But I think a lot of people have bad visions of the church and they're like well, I can do this by myself, I don't need to go to church, because you know churchgoers are, you know, hypocrites or blah, blah, blah or whatever. Or maybe they were hurt in the church by leaders who made a mistake too, because they're also not perfect people. So it's like I think that there's just a lot of Right yeah, I think that's why we steered away from the Catholic Church.
Rachel Wagner:Oh, for sure, yeah, the whole pedophilia thing, that was happening with the Catholic Church was just yeah, and all the corruption, oh yeah, I mean, it was just such a turnoff and I'm sure that happens in the corruption and there's a lot of money. There's a lot of money. There's a lot of money, yeah.
Jason Wagner:Here's the thing. Here's kind of a weird thing and let me get your take on this Is that when we first started going to this large-scale church, one of the first messages that they say is like hey, donation goal.
Jason Wagner:Yeah, Like we actually have this big it's the announcement section right, but it's like nobody wants to hear about $5 million that we want to raise and we're short by like 400,000 or something like that, and I'm just like wow there is a lot of money that goes into this. And then you start to you know, start thinking about some of the corruption things that have been happening and how are we supposed to like? Take that a little bit.
Anita Pilalis:So that's really tough. I I used to struggle with that, but one time our pastor said to us it is not for us to question where the church puts its money. Like he said it like it's not for us to question where the church puts its money because, at the end of the day, if the church decides to do something bad with your money, well, that church and those people who are in charge of that money they're going to have a big account to pay for with God. They're going to have to when they're talking to God, when they die, are going to have to account for all of that, and so that's not for us to worry about. If they're doing something not right with the money, right, so that was a good thing for me to be like all right, I'm not going to worry about that. That was a good way for me to be like no, that's not for me to question, because what, what I am to do is to be faithful with the money that God has given me, and so that's all I can do.
Anita Pilalis:I can't be in charge of what they're doing. I can hope, with best intentions, that they are doing the right thing, but again, we live in a very sinful, corrupt world and there are sheep, um wolf and sheep's clothing. So we know that there are going to be bad people everywhere. That's because we again live in a very sinful world with a very real enemy. So for me that has brought me comfort and just being like, no, I can't question, cause. I mean I, of course. I mean I see those big numbers too and I'm like I don't understand, why are we cutting positions in our church when you know we still have this much more money? But then David also reminded me. He's like Anita, they have benefits that they have to pay out to people. They have this, they have that, they have, you know, their monthly rent of this or you know whatever it is. David was going through all this stuff and I was like, yeah, I guess I didn't really think about all of that.
Anita Pilalis:But then also, like if your church, does your church do any church planting, do they do? You know they have to pay all the staff members they don't actually, you know, do, so that they're, they're depending on the church's money. But anyways, all that to say, I could go down a whole route of being like where's that money going?
Jason Wagner:But I do know, and then there's projects that they want to do too, which is like, oh, we want to build a church in another country, or like, do that type of?
Anita Pilalis:And it costs a lot of money and it's. It's easy for us to look at the money and be like huh, but I do know that God says that every good and perfect gift that we have is from God. So the money that I have in my pocket is from God and I do. David and I have our own personal testimony of like when we first started tithing, how God responded. And there's God tells us to one time in the Bible he will tell us to test him is with our money. And he said test me with your money and or test me with your tithe, which is 10% of what you're making, and see how he will open up the floodgates of heaven for you. Essentially. So it's like when God tests you with money. I see him respond and I actually like he did that for us. It was cool.
Anita Pilalis:Last year David left his job and we and David started with a new company, a smaller company, and David just kept saying to me and he and it was much less pain for us, so we were going to have to like make cuts in what we're doing per month. And then he also was like you know, but in the long run he's going to take the risk and he's going to invest in the company and but in the long run he's hoping to, it'll be best for our family and he'll be making a profit from it and all that stuff. But he kept praying on it and then eventually David said I think God's telling me I need to give my first paycheck, even though we're freaked out about money and how are we going to get it all at the end of the year. He's like I think God's telling me to give the first paycheck to the church in order for us to tithe, in order for us to tithe to be, and no, no, no. So that didn't get to that part yet.
Jason Wagner:The whole thing, the whole first paycheck, the whole first paycheck.
Anita Pilalis:And I said to David you know, if God's telling you to do that, I believe probably you're supposed to. And then I said to David you know I'm wondering, like what would our annual giving be at for the church If you gave that first paycheck? What percentage would that be at? And then David just like broke down crying. He goes I think it's 10%. And so God, god, put on our heart to give that first paycheck, in knowing that that if we gave that paycheck it would lead us to 10% for our first time tithing. And so we also know that God honors, like us, in honoring him with our money and trusting him with our money, I do believe God will honor you back. I don't think it's going to be like a like for like thing, but I know that God has a reason for it. So, anyways, so we did that. So I said that to David and David's like oh my gosh. And then I said to David I'm like I'm pretty sure there's a Bible verse that talks about like testing God with our money, like to get to to to test him with it. And so then I went to it and I was like, oh my gosh, it's talking about the tithe and I just realized that this is the 10% that God. We think God wants us to give a 10% to the church.
Anita Pilalis:And David and I had always been giving money because we we've just always believed in giving to the church and, you know, trusting God with where he's going to take the church, but we've never given 10% because we just felt like, oh, I don't know, like I'm a stay-at-home mom, now we were already tight on money and like all this stuff, and so David gave. So right before we were about to, david fasted for three days. So he fasted, he prayed about it, we prayed about it together as a couple. We came to the conclusion that we really feel like God's leading us's, like let's pray. So we prayed about it, gave the money, and then David immediately opens up his bank account right after because he got freaked out and he's like, oh my gosh, and this was after his company had told him we are not giving you your bonuses because you are leaving the company. He was trying to stay at his other company long enough to get the bonuses that he was promised from the year before. But they promise from the year before, but they weren't going to give it to him. So they already had the big discussion of you're not getting these bonuses. It was like 20, some, no, I want to say 30, something crazy thousands of dollars that he was walking away from of the bonuses that he was supposed to get.
Anita Pilalis:So, anyways, david had been so freaked out about this $1 amount, that for our family for this 2024. And he said I don't know how we're going to do it. So I guess david had been praying about that dollar amount. I didn't realize. So, anyways, david opened up our bank account and all of a sudden that exact dollar amount was in our bank account, the exact dollar amount that david had been praying for. After we changed, we sent the money to the church for that. So god responded with that exact dollar amount that david had been crying. And david just started crying and I started crying and I was like, oh wow, so that's not a response. So again, that's testing with money and then I'm sorry, where did that money?
Anita Pilalis:word that was one of the bonuses that they said they would they said, they weren't they will not give them.
Anita Pilalis:They said it multiple times to him that they won't give it to him, and this was like weeks later. So I don't know if it was a mistake or not, but they it ended up in our. Then you want another thing. Last year we just had a random, quite a big thousand dollar check like come in our just in the mail and we don't know where it came from, but it just came out of nowhere and then we didn't realize that was actually a dollar amount that we didn't, that we needed to make it through that year. Well, like, we have money saved up but we don't want to be losing money every month, we want to be gaining money. So anyways, and then like, even like the another of that same dollar amount came in through tax returns which we didn't realize we were getting for the exact dollar amount that David was praying over.
Anita Pilalis:So God responds and God does some like really cool things. So I've seen it with my own personal testimony of how God, when we trust him with our money, I mean he will open the floodgates. And that's why I couldn't stop crying, cause I was like, oh my gosh, you really do Like he wants. He wants to blow our mind? I really think he does, but we just don't trust him with it because we're so focused on the here and now and he's like no, I got you, I got you. Are you going to trust me with it or not?
Anita Pilalis:And I've heard so many other people's testimonies of their money and again, the money thing is it's stress, I mean, because money is well. Money goes back to pride too with all of us. But money also is that thing. I mean it's security. It makes us all feel secure and, like you know, but even when I left my job, like I was like how the heck am I going to leave my job and walk away from this? I don't know how our family's going to have money to do this. Like we canceled Amazon accounts, we canceled all these things and we're like, okay, we're going to do it.
Anita Pilalis:Cause I felt on my heart God placed on my heart to stay at home with the kids since they were babies, and I felt like he was trying to tell me to homeschool when Grayson was like a few months old. But I was like, how the heck am I going watch Emma and you can be her nanny? And so then I was able to pay for that, like pay, help, pay, like our monthly expenses with being her nanny. And then like, when then your sign stuff came through, where even that I know it's a small amount, but even just being able to add like little things and stuff like that, like God has responded in so many ways that I could. I can't even, I can't even name them all. But it's one of those things where if we're so closed off to it and we're so in fear, we can't see him work out how he can do it, you know, because we're just too afraid.
Jason Wagner:I had heard. It reminds me of our conversation with Dave and Amanda, where they talked about because Dave was a big giver to the church and he tried to educate us early on. Dave Lee, yeah, dave and Amanda are like instrumental in our whole journey too Cool.
Anita Pilalis:That's awesome. You need that.
Jason Wagner:Yeah, yeah, and I remember them talking. You know, dave was always like dude. Actually I give a lot to the church. He's like I don't tell anybody that, but we do it and I don't tell anybody that, but we do it and I asked him one time how much and I was blown away at what he said, but he had these same stories same stories of what you are talking about.
Anita Pilalis:The coincidences, the coincidences.
Jason Wagner:And so you know, as a first time listener of that story, I was exactly coincidence. Yeah, right, yeah. But when you hear more and more of it it's very fascinating, it is.
Anita Pilalis:Yeah. But even like I'm not a money person at all, even for God to place right in that moment, when David's like I feel like God's placing in my heart to give this first paycheck, and for me to think, oh, if we add that first paycheck to what we already give, how much more does that take us to 10%? And the best part was last year at the beginning David's like I think we're going to maybe start having to cut back a little bit on what we're giving to the church with the less income that I'm going to make per month. And I said to David it's weird because I actually feel like God's telling us to give it more. And so we had this little disagreement for a second. It wasn't even a disagreement because David's totally with me and we're both on the same page. But at the same time it was like, oh, shoot, so now what do we do? But I don't think.
Anita Pilalis:Obviously God doesn't want you to go into debt and not have anything. But also, if God's really pressing on your heart to do something and trust him with it, we trust him with our life, yet we don't trust him with our money. Like it's like come on, but it is, it is. It's a hard. It's a hard thing. I mean especially me. I didn't grow up with a lot of money, and neither did David, so we are very much like we don't want, but like man, we gotta let god move too, you know so going back to like the whole church corruption thing, like if, let's just say, you were to find out that the church that you go to and they've misused the funds like, would you be upset about that?
Anita Pilalis:oh yeah, I mean I would be upset.
Jason Wagner:Yeah, yeah, so you can still so you can still like, have like a justice thing of like hey, that was totally wrong.
Anita Pilalis:And like, and they should probably not be in their position if they were doing something corrupt with your money Absolutely 100%. But I do believe also that God will bring all things to light. So anything that's done in darkness, that is and that's biblical. Anything that's done in darkness, it will be brought to light. Like I believe that 100%. And if people are misusing the funds that they're getting, again that sucks for you, dude, like you're going to be accounting for that with God. You're going to be standing before the Lord of this universe and you're going to have to account for that. I don't want that on my list. David and I were going to a pumpkin patch this past October and had just turned three or no, he didn't just turn three, but I'm like he could pass for two and I was like man, we could save 20 bucks if I just say, and I kept thinking, I was like gosh man, I that would be great to you know, just have him be two and we could save 20 bucks and blah, blah.
Rachel Wagner:And then I was like don't want it on my list. I don't want to have to be like Jesus. I really didn't want to lose that 20 bucks Like. I don't want to have to account for that. Well, as you were talking about the giving to the church, I took note of you weren't saying you were giving to the church, right, you were trusting God with your money. And that was like an interesting distinction, because I think when we're still thinking about it, we're still thinking about we're giving it to the church and the people who are controlling it.
Jason Wagner:And when I listen, to you talk about it you're trusting God with your money?
Anita Pilalis:Yes, that's different.
Jason Wagner:Yes.
Anita Pilalis:And that's the thing too, I mean I serve in our food market at church and I see the guests that, with the benevolence money that they're giving to the church, I see who's actually receiving it and, yes, some people might be misusing the system too.
Anita Pilalis:That's not for me to care about, that's not that is. That is not for me to question or judge or wonder. All it is is for me to serve God and do what he has equipped me to do and with where he's placed me and I'm like no, so I see at the food market, like being able to like provide for them. I mean, that's just one way the church can, you know, use the money that we give them. But at the same time, yeah, like, but that's also like maybe why figuring out what church works for you best is because you know, when you start to get to know the, the, the pastors, the leaders at the church, and you know you start trusting them more, and yet there's probably going to be some bad people in the bunch. You know, like that's also biblical, like there's going to be some, you know but I mean we could say that with anything.
Rachel Wagner:Yeah, you had kind of mentioned that.
Anita Pilalis:I don't know if this was your first son, but you felt this calling to do homeschooling yep.
Rachel Wagner:Can you talk about that a little bit and what your experience has been like?
Anita Pilalis:and well, I was like in public school my whole life, like and I actually really enjoyed public school, like I had no problem with it, like I loved all my teachers. I mean, obviously I know schools have changed quite a bit since then, but I like had no, I loved it. It was great. For some reason, when Grayson was a baby, just I had this gut feeling like you're supposed to homeschool, which, like is not my thing, cause I am not a teacher, I do not consider myself a teacher, I do not like teaching really as much I like I would rather leave it to the professionals. But I felt like God was telling me you're going to homeschool. So I was like, okay, I don't know how we're going to do it, but we did. So, yeah, how did you know?
Jason Wagner:this Like what? What do you mean? How did he tell you?
Anita Pilalis:Yeah, no, so I've never heard an audible voice. I would love to hear an audible voice.
Anita Pilalis:I literally I'm like, I'm like we could talk all day, like I will be here. I'll just sit here and talk to you all day on my heart, where I just feel like it's in my brain, I can't get it off. And sometimes, when I feel like things are repeated over and over and over and over, I feel like it's from God, because I'm like and if it's again, if it's not contrary to God's word, if it's, if it's in line, like if the values and things like that, I believe it's from God. Do you know what I mean? Does that make more sense?
Jason Wagner:It just keeps coming up. For you, was there also a fear that was kind of feeding into it too? Oh, yeah, okay.
Anita Pilalis:And like you're not equipped to teach your kids A fear towards homeschool or a fear away from it.
Rachel Wagner:Right, actually, that's what it yeah.
Anita Pilalis:All of it. Okay, I was afraid to homeschool. Well, and everyone thinks like homeschool kids are weird. I'm like I'm going to have the weird kids, I guess, like the crazy Jesus ladies.
Jason Wagner:She just owns every part of this.
Anita Pilalis:It's amazing. That's the thing I'm like. I was afraid of that. I was afraid of my kids aren't going to be smart enough because I'm not super smart, so how are they going to be smart? And I had this fear of what people are going to say, which I still get judgment from family members, friends and family members. Even if they say that or not, I can feel the judgment. Even my own mom sometimes. I love her so much but like sometimes she'll be like, so what about the social thing?
Jason Wagner:Like how are they going to? I'm like they have brothers.
Anita Pilalis:There's three of them. They're like and we take them to church. They play with the kids in the neighborhood. There's plenty of social aspect. There's also like co-ops that you can do, like that can help teach with your kids. Grayson's in a co-school right now where he goes to once a week. He does science, history, performing arts and art. So I don't have to do like the fun science projects because right now with the two little kids it's just not feasible Like I and I don't have the bandwidth to because my brain just doesn't want to do more than that, because it's just too much stress right now. So I'm like I so he goes to that once a week, which has been like a really awesome thing to come alongside you.
Anita Pilalis:But for me, being the main teacher was like super important to me. But yeah, the fear thing. I mean I still get the fear thing sometimes where I'm like you know Grayson will stumble on a word. I'm like oh gosh, he's not learning, like he's not going to know anything, like I freak out about stuff like that. So I think it's, I think it's both, but I I mean I wouldn't trade continue on with that. I go back and forth Cause I'm like I have a hard time with him, even being away from me, cause I just I want to be the main teacher for him and I know it's like people are probably maybe think that's a controlling thing and maybe it is a little bit, but also it's like I just know what I want him want to be instilled in him and I know he's place and I know what he's intaking and I see how their brains are sponges, so it's like I I just felt, I just feel like this is where I'm supposed to be with the kids right now.
Jason Wagner:Where are they right now?
Anita Pilalis:My mom, my sister's house and Grayson's at his school, nice. So yeah, yeah, yeah, I would say it's. It's been a really beautiful thing, like the homeschool thing. It's it's not the norm, but it's like it's hard and it's beautiful.
Rachel Wagner:So Do you think you'll continue that all the way through their education or?
Anita Pilalis:I think I will until it feels like maybe it doesn't feel right anymore. Like I, I definitely will until at least high school, and then maybe we can reevaluate. And if and that's what I've said the whole time I'm like if I all of a sudden feel like I'm being led somewhere else and and it's a right fit for him, cause I also think that there need to be good Christian kids in schools to be the light in the darkness. Like I don't, I totally believe that. Like there needs to be Christians in every field and everywhere. Right, but right now I'm like, no, I think, at this age of them being so small, I'd rather make my life a little harder in order to instill good values in them and lead them in the way that I want them, which again is biblical, to lead them in His way. Yeah, that's us right now.
Rachel Wagner:That's awesome.
Jason Wagner:Dude, this has been an incredible conversation.
Anita Pilalis:Well, I love talking about this stuff. We can tell and we love it. And it's very infectious. Well, I love talking about this stuff. We can tell and we love it.
Jason Wagner:And it's very infectious.
Rachel Wagner:It's very engaging, oh, it's tremendously engaging. Yeah, yeah.
Jason Wagner:I actually can't wait to listen to this one, because I feel like you taught us so much.
Anita Pilalis:I hope so. I mean, I feel like, well, that's the thing also I was kind of worried about like man, am I going to say the right thing? Am I going to say something wrong? Then I'm like no, it's what God's already given me and where he wants me to be the vessel for what he's already shared with me. And that's kind of how I feel with the writing stuff, where I'm just like I just need to be a vessel at this point like broken, messed up vessel for him.
Anita Pilalis:And that's why I'm like I just love what you guys are doing right now, that you guys are being a power couple for your family and for your girls, because it is going to set them on a trajectory path of just like good things. Hopefully, you know, and like I think, more people need to be more bold in doing that and not be afraid to do it.
Jason Wagner:Everybody's so fearful.
Anita Pilalis:Yeah, everybody wants to know everything right now. I feel like if we don't have the right answers then it's not fearful. Yeah, I mean, everybody wants, yeah. Yeah, everybody wants to know everything right now. I feel like if we don't have the right answers then it's not right and all this stuff and it's like we're never going to get that. Like the I also just wrote one on that where it's like we can't know everything, like we aren't designed to. I mean Like it's just too much for us to bear. But but he will bear our burdens and our things that we have going on in our life and that's been like huge for me in my life, for sure.
Rachel Wagner:Yeah, yeah, I struggle with that a lot. I always want to know Same I'm a control freak. Yeah, believe it or not? Yeah, I feel that totally.
Anita Pilalis:Yeah, that's been, that's been one of the hardest things. It's like just laying it all at his feet and just being like okay, god, this is yours to take. Even with the bagels and the Bible thing that I did, I literally was like I am not equipped to do this, like I don't know what I'm going to speak on. My oven's broke, my fridge just broke. I'm like my computer broke.
Jason Wagner:You guys, my computer broke. It was so annoying.
Anita Pilalis:But what else happened? David's car didn't start that week. I'm like I am not in the mindset to do this. I cannot do this, I, this is so silly blah, blah. And then it just like I felt God and every little bit of it, and he equips us to do those things. So when we lay the control at him, when we let him just take the reins, gosh, it's so cool to see him move my gosh, it's so cool yeah it's the best so are you gonna.
Anita Pilalis:You have a leadership role in your church I'm a care deacon at our church and then so I I like a lot of what I do at our and I like serve as like a group leader, just like in small groups, which I think like would be really awesome for you guys if you got into small groups, because it's so helpful to hear other people's perspectives and to like, again, iron sharpens iron that's in the Bible too Like you sharpen one another, so as one believer sharpens the other, like we need that person to lean on.
Anita Pilalis:So, yeah, I do that, and so it's basically a lot of. It is like running our food market at our church, so, which is awesome because, again, god is close to the brokenhearted and when you are in a place where you see people who are really broken, who really need it, you see how God can move in their lives and and and again it's the loving your neighbor aspect and putting that into action. That's one of my biggest things. If you are about action, which I feel like you guys are you guys seem to be people who don't just talk, you do read James in the Bible is just like all about action, action, action, action and just doing it Like we can't just be hearers of the word, but we need to be actual doers of the word and just like actually putting what he's given us.
Anita Pilalis:You know, and it's cool because then I always say, like I feel like God, I thought he was using me to like help other people. You know from the story that I had, but I'm realizing, oh my gosh, god, you are using, you're working in and through me, like you're working in me from other people too. So it's cool to see how God does that. But yeah, and like in the church especially, which is it's nice, I love it.
Jason Wagner:Anita, this has been awesome. We're going on two hours.
Rachel Wagner:Are we really? Yeah, I mean you guys, it's not done for real. To be honest, two hours of talking about God and Jesus, it's been amazing. That was a fast two hours. That was a really fast two hours.
Anita Pilalis:I'm not joking you. I could literally go on forever. Grace and my littlest will talk in the backseat of the car. I'm like, oh my god, why is he going? I'm like, oh, it's me. I'm like, that's me in the backseat. I'm like, dang it.
Rachel Wagner:That's so funny, yep amazing.
Jason Wagner:All right, so I guess we'll just do the wrap should we pray again? Well, we well, we could, we, could we at first. How we do these is that we do like to like talk about our biggest takeaway from this conversation, yeah and so Rachel you can ask me to go first.
Rachel Wagner:Yeah, because I'm still thinking. I can't put it on the spot. He always says that's always yeah, and then we'll come to you too.
Jason Wagner:Okay, but your biggest takeaway from this conversation with anita?
Rachel Wagner:biggest takeaway. There were a lot, and I feel like it like kind of sums up under like like surrendering and like I'm thinking about like the praying thing and knowing that that's your conversation, like just with god and to like kind of just like ignore the noise around you and the earth. And I'm also thinking about that. And when I was talking about you know how I just felt like all of a sudden something was being spoken through me and I wasn't prepared for that. So like I think overall, just hearing you give multiple examples of just like trust and faith and surrendering brings you a lot of peace too. You know like it's really powerful. I don't know if that's a real specific takeaway, but that's how I feel this whole conversation was is. I felt that undertone the whole time and it made a lot of sense to me and it really spoke to me.
Anita Pilalis:Well, it's the peace that surpasses all understanding. It's one of those things that you just don't understand it until you experience it and then you realize, like man, this is the piece he's talking about, because everything else can be chaotic, but it's the piece that he can give us by surrendering everything we have to him. And that's like a continual process, every single day, surrendering to him every single day. And that's like the one thing I get on my knees every single morning and I say God, today is your day, whatever you want to do with it. And I'm not even just saying that, just like that's literally words that come out of my mouth. I'm like this is your day. I don't know how you want to use me, but use me however you want to. And just like it is the full thing of surrender but it is an everyday battle.
Rachel Wagner:I'm sitting here thinking like, why do I have days where I feel that peace and why do I have days where it's like a constant struggle? And there was a period of time earlier in the year I had shared where I was kind of praying every day, and I really needed it and I felt just such a immense peace going through this process and I've, I've, I've kind of fallen off my routine.
Anita Pilalis:I think the beginning of pregnancy threw me off my routine and everything, disruptions and kids, yeah, and.
Rachel Wagner:I'm like gosh. I have days where like I'm really good and I'm really on it, and then I have days where I'm like I can't like hear myself totally think or feel the peace, and I'm frustrated. And so it's, it's finding that that time to yourself. Like you said, you wake up at 5am and make sure you have that time.
Anita Pilalis:Yeah, get into, because if we try and just let the time come about, it's never going to happen, and especially if we have an enemy who's going to use our children as disruptions and other things. And not that they are all the time, but I'm just saying it happens. Yeah, you've got to make the time, just like for the working out stuff and all this stuff. We have to make the time. It's never just going to be in our lap, you know Right, but when we seek him like there's so many verses that talk about when we seek him, gosh, we will find him. We will find him and he will come to you. So it's like that's what I have to remind myself of in the chaos, the chaos of like the world.
Rachel Wagner:Yeah, yeah, appreciate that.
Jason Wagner:The chaos of the world is really kind of what stuck out the most to me and really just how prevalent Satan is and the evilness prevalent. Satan is and the evilness, and when you said that he controls the world, I thought it was an interesting comment.
Anita Pilalis:And yeah, God gave him rain to essentially run this world.
Jason Wagner:And and and I just I just see it so much In my opinion. I see so much manipulation happening. It's like right in front of my face and then when I see it from the other side, it's like the person that is saying it sometimes doesn't see it themselves and I want to say to them sometimes it's like boy, you're being manipulated. Like you're in the matrix Like you have to step out of that. You have to find a way out of that.
Jason Wagner:Like you have to step out of that and you have to find a way out of that. And I guess the way I kind of envision this is that it's you know, there's bits of Satan that are inside of that and there's probably bits of it that are also pulling me into thinking that, you know, maybe I'm actually the one manipulated you know what I mean.
Jason Wagner:Totally, and so I think there's a lot of work to be done on that front, and that was a big piece. That was a big piece that I connected with here. There were plenty of other things that we talked about, which.
Anita Pilalis:I can't wait.
Jason Wagner:Literally. I can't wait to go back and listen to everything that you said.
Anita Pilalis:I'm worried about what I said.
Rachel Wagner:Now I think about, but it's fine, yeah, no I think I want to piggyback off of that too, because I think we talk about so often like the evil that we're saying you know, but I don't think we have ever said it's satan, it's he's responsible for what is happening and controlling the earth, like that was. That was like. We talk about it all the time, and we have for several years, about all the evil. There's all this evil everywhere, and I think that was part of what kind of pushed us to to finding god again, but we didn't put like a spirit or person I don't even know how to say it. That's his best work, though it really is.
Anita Pilalis:It is his best tactic to make you believe that it's not of him or to put your blame on God. Like God, how could you allow this evil? But, like, people also don't understand, this is the thing that gets me, and I get it because I I, I mean, I had a heck of a childhood and I wonder God, why did you allow that to happen to me? Now, looking back, I'm like gosh, you were there, you actually were with me through it all. I just didn't acknowledge you. And also not only that, but like, like, if we didn't have free will and if we didn't have free reign to do things that we are doing, we just be like, little, like doing. Imagine somebody came into your, you brought someone into your home and you're like you need to love me, you have to love me, you have to blah, blah, blah, you have to do this. You'd be like whoa, this is weird. If someone's forcing you to love them, you don't want to love them. That's just weird. And that's what's so cool about God is he gives us the free will to do that. And so people also don't understand what.
Anita Pilalis:With free will, there comes evil. With that, there comes pride, there's ego, there's all these horrible things that drive us to doing not great things, and that's where all this corruption comes in. But, yes, it started with one thing and that's Satan and that's where the fall of man became and all that stuff. So it's like it's really, it is crazy when your eyes are open to it, because you're like, oh gosh, like it's literally everywhere. And it's hard because it's a continual battle where you're like man, god, how much more am I going to have to listen to like these lies or deal with this or whatever it might be? But like that's when you just have to keep going back to God.
Anita Pilalis:I always say to myself and this is when I'm like having a really hard time I just continually say to myself less of the world, more of your word, less of the world, more of your word. Like I just need to focus in on God, because if our eyes are fixated on God, oh God, I think he's going to move like and just, and he can move mountains, he can do those things, but it's we, that's the. The enemy would rather keep us distracted with the chaos of everything going on so that we, we were not doing like God's will and we're not moving things forward. Yeah, I would say I can give you a few book recommendations that were like you can even listen to them on audio book that you'd be really interested in hearing some spiritual warfare stuff, cause it's it's definitely alive and that's actually a Bible. It's a verse two where it says the enemy he prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour.
Rachel Wagner:He's constantly looking to devour people. Yeah, I would. I would take those book recommendations.
Anita Pilalis:Yeah, I mean they're really interesting and I mean again, I know it sounds a little strange, but I mean it's one of those things when your eyes are open to it, you're like no, it's very real. And then when you start to see some of the corruption in our world, you're like okay. And then you start to think about the end times and then you go down a big spiral. So yeah, if you want to go to that spiral, we can talk about it another time.
Jason Wagner:I listened to the Mel Gibson and Joe Rogan podcast.
Anita Pilalis:And.
Jason Wagner:Mel Gibson is he's doing a movie.
Anita Pilalis:It's on spiritual warfare, oh okay Cool, I didn't know that.
Jason Wagner:Yeah, one of his upcoming ones is going to be the good versus evil and how they're duking it out, and so I'm interested to see, like, how that all plays out, because he did the passion of the Christ, in which we watched.
Rachel Wagner:Yeah, we watched not long ago. Yeah.
Jason Wagner:Learned a lot.
Rachel Wagner:Yeah, I had so many questions coming out of that, we were texting Dave and Amanda so much I learned a lot.
Anita Pilalis:Explain this to me. Explain this to me. It's so good that you guys have that, though.
Rachel Wagner:Seriously, yeah, they really have been so instrumental.
Anita Pilalis:You always need somebody one step ahead of you with a spiritual journey so you can actually go to, for that Discipleship is something that I just think needs to be done way more in our society.
Jason Wagner:I've never heard of this, this discipleship. Obviously, we know Jesus and his disciples, but I've never heard of discipleship. Go and make disciples out in the nations. Yeah, that was a new thing for me.
Anita Pilalis:So we are all disciples of Jesus, like we are essentially followers of Jesus and then we will go and disciple other people to be followers of Jesus. That's why I always think of the kids. I'm like they're my little, I'm making little disciples, like I want them to go out into the world and it is beautiful when you see your kids do that. But it is true, yeah, it's discipleship and it's letting yourself be mentored by someone else too who can help you, because it's too hard and there's too many things. I mean literally. That's the one thing that I think is so cool about God is he's so infinite that you can just learn and learn and learn and learn and still be yearning for more. It's like, how can I not know everything about you? And every single day I dig into your word, I'm trying to find out more and there's still so much more. He's infinite, he's. It's just so cool.
Anita Pilalis:That's why I'm excited for you guys, because, like, if, if the fire is burning in your hearts to know more, like, just just keep. There's also violators. This is one of my favorite ones. It's um fan into flame the gift of god which is on you and you through the lane of my heart or which is in you, whatever you guys put the point of it. But it talks about like, like I, I like the image of like fanning it, like the actual, like fanning a flame to get it bigger, like you need to actually do the work, like let him, you know, make that fire burn inside you more because, like I mean, you guys could do huge things for so many people. So I think that's awesome.
Jason Wagner:You could too thanks, with a little chaos in my home, but yeah, no, I'm trying. Yeah, I don't know I'm trying.
Anita Pilalis:That's all I can do. What was your biggest takeaway here?
Jason Wagner:oh man, biggest takeaway actually I want to know, like from what you had commented on, what was, what was something that you thought was actually a good piece that you added here, because a lot of people they like to say, oh, they kind of comment on what we're doing here, but actually I want to know what was your big learning from God, obviously in His Word.
Anita Pilalis:I'm constantly listening to sermons, listening to other preachers, listening to podcasts. I'm constantly listening to other things about God and learning about Him, because I just can't stop wanting to learn. But it really did spark me that you guys also didn't really think about Satan or the enemy, because it's just so. So that actually really opened an eye to me that, oh my gosh, that is a real thing that people don't know about as much. Because in my mind I listened to that stuff so often and Because I don't, I, I, I didn't believe that he exists.
Anita Pilalis:Yes, and that's it's like you say it is. It's like this, this thing, that's just the evil part.
Jason Wagner:But you know, but I didn't necessarily believe that he existed because I knew well God exists. Jesus exists and that the other side is just like blah yeah.
Anita Pilalis:Do you guys know who Jonathan Pakuda is? Pastor JP Mm-mm. His stuff is really awesome. I'll send you. I can send you guys a few things on Instagram or something and or text or whatever, and but he's like big, he just wrote a book called your story has a villain and it just talks all about spiritual warfare and like it's. I haven't um, I started it but I am very short, like very few pages in. But I think that could even be a good one for you guys, because, anyways, that was, I think, one of my biggest takeaways, because I'm like you know, I hear it and I I'm in it so much and I I'm studying it and I'm trying to learn more. So it's like when sometimes you know how that is, it's like when you're the person in it, you just assume everybody else is at that same spot and it's like, oh no, that really is a thing that people don't know about as much, because, again, it's like he it's his biggest weapon.
Anita Pilalis:No, I'm not real, it's not real, it's not real. Yeah, that was really interesting. Your car just broke down. I've never heard that. Yeah, so I'm not saying everything comes from him, but yeah it's.
Anita Pilalis:I mean, it's pretty like even now, like, um, this morning, my computer is old. I will say that my first computer, the computer that wasn't old, broke right before the bagels and the bible thing. And and then my computer. This morning I went to open it up to write a blog post and my, it won't work, it will not work. The charger won't work, nothing. And I'm like now, granted that one is a little older, I haven't used it as much, but I'm like that's two computers I've just broke in a month after I just opened, or I just like started a blog of actually taking my writing instead of leaving it in the computer, actually taking it to where people can read it, and I'm like that that feels like spiritual warfare your oven breaking the week before you have to use your oven for an event to bring more women, in which I actually was a fruitful conversation with other women, where other people want to come again. That that's spiritual warfare. But instead of just like again it's a coincidence.
Rachel Wagner:Yeah.
Anita Pilalis:So, yeah, I would say that opened my eyes to being like oh no, okay, yeah. So, yeah, I would say that opened my eyes to being like, oh no, okay, you need to. Other people don't know that as much too. So, yeah, a lot of things, let's be honest open my eye Like it was a very good conversation. I love, I love this.
Jason Wagner:Okay, so how, if somebody wants to sign up for your blog, how do they do that?
Anita Pilalis:Overflow of the heartcom that just kind of came again. It's a Bible verse, but out of the overflow of our heart, the mouth speaks and so I was thinking, no, that is literally what's happening to me, it's just the overflow of my heart. So, overflow of the heartcom, and you can just subscribe on there. I think there's a subscribe button and yeah, that's it.
Jason Wagner:Yeah, yeah, I get the emails, yeah, yeah.
Anita Pilalis:Cool, I enjoy doing it.
Jason Wagner:It's fun, but I'm more so like when is too much too much, and so I'm just trying to figure it out.
Anita Pilalis:It looked like you had a pretty big turnout for your bible and bagels yeah and it was cool because none of the women were like rachel, you should come next time if you can. At the time a lot, but like it was cool because I actually don't know how far geneva and ireland nights are, but I'm like it you just drive from there what? Yes, what'd you say?
Jason Wagner:did you just drive from there. What, yes, what'd?
Anita Pilalis:you say Did you just drive from?
Jason Wagner:there, I went to Lombard first.
Anita Pilalis:So that was only 30 minutes. Yeah, you're like um, excuse me, we need to get your brain checked describe everything we just talked about. But it was cool Cause none of the women were like it's not like. Any of them were like, oh, all these women came like two girls that I had in my small group years ago, like 10 years ago, like we were in the same like young married group and they came and I hadn't talked to them in a super long time.
Anita Pilalis:Another girl from college, um, who was a few years younger than us. She came I hadn't talked to her since college Like another. Another girl was a neighborhood girl who played her. Her son played soccer with my boys. So it's like it was so cool and she came by herself too. I was like I'm so proud of all these women who are taking a step and are hungry and thirsting for more of God and more fellowship with other women to grow in that and then to go out into the world and do that. So it was super cool, it was a. It was a. Really it was a great turnout, cause I actually thought only sister-in-law, but no, we got more than that.
Jason Wagner:So that's amazing, that's amazing. You started something, yeah.
Anita Pilalis:It was really cool and that's, that's the funny thing I'm like. So how can I, how can I do my love of bread and bagels and and God, how?
Rachel Wagner:do? I type this in.
Anita Pilalis:I thought that was really cool, so it was just it was fun to make it come together, but I'm just like all I keep thinking to myself. Little area of influence that I have right now being at home with my kids where it's still feasible, but I'm actually making an impact for Jesus and letting him work and so yeah, just kind of thinking outside the box, right Servant mentality yeah totally Just figuring it all out every single day, but also just trusting and where he's placing me and then going with the rest.
Anita Pilalis:But again it's the whole action piece, like being a doer and actually doing it, versus just saying I'm going to do it. So that's been big for me, yeah, yeah.
Jason Wagner:Oh, you've proven that, even just with your DIY stuff that you have on your Instagram and like all that stuff. I was actually watching one of your clips this morning and I was like she took a closet and then she made it into like a really cool bar shelf.
Anita Pilalis:And it's literally been like my best DIY, because I'm like I use that every single day. I stuff the kids toys in there at the bottom part. It's so wide, it's so big, but it's been my like favorite thing to have done in the house. I'm like because I'm like no one else is going to do it and I'm like, and I love David, but he is not a handy somebody's got to do this. And I'm like, all right, we're just going to figure this out as we go.
Jason Wagner:Do you do those reels yourself too, Of like if you just have your background and then you put the text on there too?
Anita Pilalis:Yeah.
Jason Wagner:You do those, yeah, yeah.
Anita Pilalis:I've always loved creative stuff, so I think that all kind of ties in together. Like I, I've loved like DIY, figuring it all out myself, artsy. But I guess I am more artsy, Probably I get, I lean more into the artsy side of stuff. So I'm like sometimes I feel like again like a fraud, where I'm like, Anita, what are you doing?
Jason Wagner:You like, you know, why are you trying to like put this? I'm like I love doing that stuff, so I'm like why wouldn't I? Yeah? So I'm like, whya-l-i-s Awesome, yeah, sweet, yeah, real original. Well, thank you so much for coming on.
Anita Pilalis:Thank you guys.
Jason Wagner:Thanks for sharing the word.
Anita Pilalis:I'm so glad that we could do this.
Jason Wagner:Can we end with a prayer?
Anita Pilalis:Yes, do you want me to pray?
Jason Wagner:Yes, of course.
Anita Pilalis:The next time it'll be you praying yeah, okay, jesus, thank you so much for this fruitful conversation. God, thank you so much for Rachel and Jason and doing what they're doing, god, and being bold and sharing who you are, god, and exploring that. God, I thank you for the conversation that we were able to have. I thank you for the just for everything that you do, god. I pray that this conversation plants seeds, god. Sometimes it's hard to just think of ourselves as being seed planters, god, but I pray that we can just continue to plant seeds in other people's lives, god, that somebody else will water it and God, you will make it grow.
Anita Pilalis:I just pray that people, if they're questioning who you are, god, in this moment, if they are wondering more about you, god, would you just stir in their hearts, god, would you do what you need to do in order for their eyes to be open and their ears to be open, god? We thank you so much for this time that we've gotten together, god, and I pray that blesses, even if it's just one person, god. I pray that it blesses that person, god, and that they will pursue you. And we know that, lord, when we seek you with all our heart, all our soul, all our mind and all our strength, god, that you are there and I pray that when they draw near to you, god, that you will draw near to them. We thank you, lord, we praise you and I just pray that Jason and Rachel's podcast, that it's blessed, god and their family, god, and would you make just move mountains for them, god, and everything that's going on in their life. We love you and we praise you In Jesus' name. We pray Amen.
Rachel Wagner:Amen, all right, god, you're awesome.
Jason Wagner:Yeah, yeah, yeah, all right, thank you all for listening. Please share the show.
Anita Pilalis:Definitely so many great nuggets out of this one, anita. Thank you, we're very well, we'll have to have you come back on.
Jason Wagner:Yeah, yeah, we're gonna have you come back on too, because you can go on and on for more and we'll have more questions, I guarantee you.
Rachel Wagner:So, yeah for david, continue in our journey. Oh, that's awesome, you guys all right, guys.
Jason Wagner:Thanks for listening. We'll catch you on the next one.