76. How House Hacking And Partnerships Built A Chicago Portfolio With Hart Turner

Hart Turner joins us to tell the full story: 15 years as an actor in LA, a hard reset on money and career, and then an 18-month sprint that turns into three Chicago multifamily properties. Along the way, we connect the dots between endurance mindset (yes, he finished the Hawaii Ironman) and the day-to-day reality of underwriting, leasing, and staying calm when the deal goes sideways. 

We get specific about Chicago house hacking with 5% down, why BiggerPockets can be the gateway but local meetups create real acceleration, and what it looks like to buy in Humboldt Park when inventory is tight and interest rates are unforgiving. Hart walks through his first REO purchase and a five-month closing delay, the DSCR-funded second deal with a partner, and the midterm rental experiment that turned into an expensive lesson about seasonality and unit mix. 

Then comes the curveball every investor fears: a lender decides a key partner can’t qualify after you’re already under contract. We unpack how Hart pivots to a new partner, improves the financing, and still closes on a four-unit graystone after negotiating a rare $50,000 credit in a multiple-offer situation. If you’re trying to start late, scale with partnerships, or simply avoid rookie mistakes in multifamily investing, this one is packed with real numbers and real decisions. 

Hart Turner Bio: 

After beginning his real estate investing journey in 2024, Hart quickly focused on small multifamily acquisitions and house hacking. In just 18 months, he has built a portfolio of three multifamily properties (all Greystones!) totaling nine units, and all located in the Humboldt Park neighborhood. He currently lives in and manages a four-unit property that serves as his second house hack.

In addition to his direct ownership portfolio, Hart invests passively in larger Chicago-based apartment syndications through his self-directed IRA, giving him experience with both active and passive real estate investing.

Outside of investing, Hart works as an apartment locator specializing in downtown Chicago high-rises and luxury apartment communities, helping renters navigate the city’s most competitive rental markets. When he’s not working on deals or helping clients find their next home, you can usually find him on a pickleball court working on his game.

Find Hart on Instagram: @hartturner and TikTok: @hartturner

Transcript

Welcome To The Nook

Jason Wagner 0:00

Welcome back to another episode of the Real Life Investing Podcast with Jason and Rachel Wagner. Um we Rachel, we are in a new spot today. Uh we're renovating our kitchen and we're like, oh crap, we can't do this at the dining room. We need another spot. We've got these other guests, we've got a great one today. And we just like made a studio uh in our master bedroom. Yeah. Yeah.

Rachel Wagner 0:22

Closet.

Jason Wagner 0:23

So you know how like so if uh if you listen to the straight up Chicago Investor podcast, they made a new studio space and it's called the Underground. They've been doing that for like the last like two years. And so we need a name for this area.

Rachel Wagner 0:38

Yeah.

Jason Wagner 0:39

What do you think? The corner?

Rachel Wagner 0:43

The corner. Yeah, it could be.

Jason Wagner 0:45

The nook? Uh that's what I was just thinking. The nook. Yeah, the nook. It is a nook. The end of the house?

Rachel Wagner 0:51

The end of the house. I don't know.

Jason Wagner 0:55

All right. We'll keep working on that. Take a poll or something. Yeah, we'll keep working on that. Anyways. Um, so we have a we have an amazing guest here today. It's uh Hart Turner is with us. Actually, he's uh he's a client of Greystone. Um, just an amazing guy. Uh I met him in the investor circle, which is you meet so many incredibly incredible people in that network networking circle.

Hart Turner 1:16

Yeah.

Jason Wagner 1:17

So it was the Chicago Multifamily Club. I think we met at like uh and then were the holiday parties and the monthly meetups. I mean, you go fairly regularly, right?

Hart Turner 1:26

Yeah, love them.

Jason Wagner 1:27

Um and the the th the striking thing about you is that you you go to learn, man. You go to learn, and then you just go to like, who do I gotta meet and who do I gotta know? And uh and I I I will be honest, I was a little intimidated by you when I first met you. And I was like, oh, who is this guy? Because you had a great you had a great social media following. And and so I I think that's really impressive um because I remember seeing some of your stuff where you were like, I am going to make it a goal to go out and buy a multifamily building, and I'm gonna document that process. And I think you started doing that for like your first property, and you kind of you had some great stuff that was like, you know, here's the ups and downs, here's how hard it was. And I think you you really kind of shared a lot of that journey. And what I really love about people that you find in this investor space is that they're willing to share. And you are amazing, man, because you are uh you share the you share the wins, you share the losses, you've uh the ups and downs. And now, you know, you're only a few years into this, and now you're gonna be a year and a half, and you have three properties. Yeah, you got three properties, and you are now going to be a speaker at the bigger pockets conference coming up in what October? October, yeah. Dude, that is amazing. So, yeah, without further ado, this is this is I am I am just so jacked that you're here. This is Hart Turner. But you're jacked anyway. Well, thank you.

Hart Turner 3:00

We'll get you there. Uh this is Hart Turner. Welcome, welcome. Thank you so much. Yeah, thank you for having me in the nook. In the nook. Um, yeah, I'm super excited to be here. First ever podcast. And uh yeah, this is awesome. I appreciate the invitation.

Jason Wagner 3:14

The thing we didn't know about Hart is that he was actually an actor. Like true before before his real estate days, he was an actor in LA. Yep.

Hart Turner 3:22

Wow, true, for like a long time. Okay, for like 15 years.

Jason Wagner 3:26

All right, break that down. What what how can you make it as an actor? First

A 15-Year Acting Career In LA

Jason Wagner 3:30

off, I always feel like the success rate for an actor is really tough. Um yeah, borderline impossible.

Hart Turner 3:36

Yeah, yeah. So, like, what was what was that like? So, yeah, I mean, it was a journey for sure. Um, so I grew up in DC area, and I found a love for acting early on just in my life. Like, I always wanted to be the star of the play, and I usually would like get that role, and I just loved it. Like, I remember doing the Pirate King when I was a little kid, and it was like me versus Troy Russell for the Pirate King, and I was like, I this should be mine, like screw Troy, like I want this role, you know. And I just remember like just loving that. I don't know, I just love being on stage and getting that attention, I think. And so I pursued it. I think I got an age home when I was like 12 in DC. What? Yeah, and I started doing like little local stuff in Baltimore. Um, there's a show called Homicide Life on the Street that was a really popular show for on MBC for a while. And I got a job when I was like 16 on that show. Um, speaking role, that got me my SAG card eligibility. Um What is that? Yeah, what's it? Screen Actors Guild. Yeah, like the the the union for actors. Wow. Um and so I got my eligibility for that. And I did like a couple, I did like industrial videos, like I did a video for the American Red Cross and like stuff like that that no one will ever see, but it's paid work, you know, when you're a kid. And I just always knew I was gonna go to LA and be an actor. Um I went to college because my dad was like, you're going to college. And I just, you know, I just followed that path because I I I would have happily moved straight to LA. Um, but I went to West Virginia for two years. And then that the summer after my sophomore year, I I went out to LA to just like check it out for the summer, full, full knowing that I was not coming back. And I told my dad after like, you know, a month of being there, I was like, hey, what if I didn't come back? What if I stayed? You know, what if I transferred to Santa Monica Community College? And my dad, long story short, my dad didn't finish college. So he was just so adamant about his three boys finishing school. Um, and I just I could care less. Like I just really didn't want to do that. I just was so clear of what I wanted. And now that my dad has passed, I can, you know, tell the story. But my brother, my oldest brother was like, don't go back. Just just do what you want to do. Like, if you know what you most people go to school to figure out what they want to do, or to get the degree or to get whatever they need to do the thing that they want to do. He's like, But if you know and you want to be in the arts, like just go do it. You don't need anything. You can start working in in movies tomorrow. Wow. So I basically was like, all right, I'm gonna that's what I'm gonna do. So I um basically my brother gave me some recommendations or some like uh phone numbers. And one of them, this is a fun story, actually. One of them's one of the phone numbers that my brother gave me was for Jason Blum. And if for anyone who knows the horror um industry, he owns Blumhouse and he is Blumhouse. So Jason Blum has gone on to he's like a sh a shark on shark tank. Like he's he was a gigantic success. Wow. Um, and he just dominates the horror genre. And he was one of the numbers on this call list that my brother gave me in 2002. So called Jason, Jason was like, Yeah, starting a movie, you can come interview to be a production assistant, like an intern. And I was like, Great, got the job same day, started on set that day. And basically, like I was now in LA on set, working, doing my thing. And eventually I I knew I was there to be an actor, eventually I transitioned to that. Um, and you know, I just I put the time in, like I did everything I possibly could. I went to the classes, I had the agents and the managers, and I took improv and I did this and I did that, and I went to a million auditions and it just didn't happen, you know. Like I got some little jobs, I had some fun. Um and but ultimate and I had some years where I would book enough commercials because a lot of actors use commercials to like pay the bills. And, you know, back in that time, like you could book a Miller Light commercial that was a national commercial and make a hundred grand, you know, and like and it was a a day's work, but it would take you 60 auditions to get that thing. Yeah, you know. Yeah. Um, but then there were some actors who would book, you know, three of those a year, and it does their first full-time job. Um so I got to a point where I was able to get like one or two commercials a year, and I was like a working actor, and those checks would roll in and they are amazing. Yeah. And you're able to just audition full-time at that point. And, you know, like I said, I did some cool like independent films, and I but I just got, you know, you're like bartending off and on a lot of this time, and I just got sick of being broke. It's just it's a long road. Um, you know, I I came back. I mean, I went, I I was had been doing production for a while, and then I eventually um, long story short, I used to smoke and I quit smoking and I picked up triathlon as like my replacement, started doing triathlons in 2007, signed up for the Iron Man Hawaii Lottery. Whoa. Then then I in 2008, the writer strike

Quitting Smoking And Ironman Kona

Hart Turner 9:00

was happening in Hollywood. So I moved to Breckenridge and became a ski instructor. While we were there, I found out that I won my Iron Man spot. I won a lottery entry to the 2008 Hawaii Iron Man. And I'm like, oh my God, I've got to like train for this. So then we the season ended in Brex. We moved to Maui. And um P.S. This whole thing happened with the girl. My partner crime at that time was the girl that owns the brokerage that I work for here in Chicago now. So I've this is a 20-year friend of mine. Wow. Um, and um, so we moved to Maui, got jobs as like bartenders and servers in Maui, and I just trained like every day, going on you know, 80 mile bike rides and you know, long three hour runs and stuff. Um, did the Iron Man in October, came back. The Iron Man was the coolest experience of of my life, by the way. It was just absolutely, absolutely incredible.

Jason Wagner 9:56

That's awesome that you've done that. Wow.

Hart Turner 9:59

Dang. Um, it was a long day. It was just under 14 hours. And but it was it was incredible. Yeah. My dad was there, my best friends were there. Um, it was just a absolutely incredible experience. Wow. Um isn't that one of the harder courses too? I don't know much about the Iron Man, but I for some reason I it's the world championship course. Yeah. And you know, the heat, the lava fields, the wind, like all that stuff. Wow. It's a it's a beast for sure. Dude, bad. Um and yeah, it's one of the prouder things of my life. How old were you when you accomplished that? Twenty six, I think. Yeah. Twenty-six years old. Nice too. Yeah. And I had been like smoking the year before and had never done a triathlon and never, never, I didn't even run like at all.

Rachel Wagner 10:45

Um Were you previously like an athlete at all growing up?

Hart Turner 10:48

Or I mean just casual, just casual athlete, never anything competitive. I just used to play lacrosse in high school and stuff like that. Um You just put your mind to it, man.

Jason Wagner 10:57

That's yeah, I just that's actually that's actually like really shocking that you weren't really much of an athlete kind of you know, competitive athlete growing up.

Hart Turner 11:06

Yeah. Wow. Yeah, I wasn't. I I hated running, I hated swimming. I had never like been a biker. I didn't do like mountain biking or anything like that. Never been on a road bike. But when I quit uh smoking, my roommate at the time was getting into triathlon, and I was like, oh, this is interesting. So I like I just started running and then I started getting better and faster, and I was tracking my runs and I was seeing the progress in it. I was getting so excited, like, oh my God, this is amazing. Um, and I was like, I'll do a sprint triathlon. And I remember I signed up for the Malibu triathlon in 2007, and that was the first triathlon I ever signed up for. And I think it was a it was like a 0.8 mile swim, like an 18-mile bike and a four mile run. And I thought, that's gonna take me forever. Like that's so much work. Like, oh my God. Um, but then like anything, you you do it and you're like, oh, that was that was doable. You know, I could do a little longer than that. I could do an Olympic distance next. I could do a half Iron Man next. And I did the half Iron Man March of 2008, which I was already signed up for before I found out about my slot in Kona. Um, and I was like, Yeah, don't need to do a full. That was way too long of a day uh for a half a half Iron Man. Um, and I really probably would not have signed up for an Iron Man maybe after that experience. It was just a long day. I didn't have the right like gear and my you know, I wore like sprint shorts, and I really should have worn like full-on bike shorts because my ass was super uncomfortable the whole time, and like I learned a lot of lessons. But then a month later I found out that I got my full Iron Man uh lottery slot, and I was like, darn it, I have to do it now. Yeah, especially because it's Hawaii. Yeah. Um so yeah.

Jason Wagner 12:50

So yeah, that's that was a so what's the breakdown again of the Iron Man?

Hart Turner 12:55

It's a 2.4 mile swim, 104, 100, god, I already forget, 126 mile bike, 140 mile bike, 126 on the bike, or wait, 112? 112, 2.4 mile swim, 112, I believe, on the bike, and then a marathon.

Jason Wagner 13:13

Hit a marathon, pop it off. Oh my god. You can you couldn't do it, right?

Rachel Wagner 13:20

No, no, you totally couldn't. Absolutely not. I ran one 5k in my life and I said never again.

Hart Turner 13:25

Yeah, not much the runner.

Rachel Wagner 13:27

I hate running.

Hart Turner 13:28

The Iron Man is uh it's an amazing thing to be a part of because you just see human potential in so many ways. Yeah. And one of the greatest gifts the Iron Man gives you is the last hour of the race, especially in in Hawaii. Everyone comes back for the final hour. You have to finish by midnight. Um, you have 17 hours to do the race uh officially, and everybody comes back for the final hour. It gives me goose when I was talking about it because you see all these people finishing, whether they have a handicap that they're working through, or it's just their first race, and it's just it's just a mountain for them to tackle and and and it's just getting to that finish line, or they're 80 years old, you know, and they're and they're just stumbling to the finish line, but they did it and they got in before 12, and people are just going crazy for them. Um it was just an amazing, it's just an amazing hour of life seeing human potential and when people put their mind uh to things and what they can accomplish. It was it was amazing to to be a part of that. It's that energy I'll never forget.

Jason Wagner 14:33

Man, I'm I'm like vividly in that position with you right now. There's nothing better than like camaraderie, yeah, you know, and people going after the same, you know, like-minded people going after the same goal. Yep. And that that applies in just so many different situations. Yeah. Obviously, it's a it's a real estate thing. But I I love that, man. That's that's awesome. How do you how do you take some of that? All right, how do you take some of that, what you what you learned in the Iron Man, and how do you apply that to what you're trying to do on the real estate side and just what you're trying to set up for your life. Yeah. And kind of what you've done so far. Like, take some of that and what do you think you're taking from Iron Man into um your investment side?

Hart Turner 15:23

Yeah. I mean, I think there's a lot of parallels for sure. P.S. Our boy David Goggins is a Kona Kona finisher.

Rachel Wagner 15:30

I thought so. Yeah. I'm like, yeah, I remember reading it.

Hart Turner 15:32

He's a he's a famous uh Kona finisher. Yeah. Yeah.

Rachel Wagner 15:35

Um that's a great book.

Hart Turner 15:36

Oh, awesome book.

Rachel Wagner 15:37

Yeah.

Jason Wagner 15:37

Yeah.

Hart Turner 15:38

I love Kona.

Jason Wagner 15:38

You know, you know some of these books?

Hart Turner 15:40

Many of them. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah, these are our favorites. I'm surprised you don't have uh extreme ownership up there.

Going Zero To 100 With Real Estate

Jason Wagner 15:45

Oh, yeah, I know. It's a it's it's on the shelf.

Hart Turner 15:48

It's on the shelf, yeah. Yeah, we probably have a lot of the same books. Um but the uh yeah, I mean, I think the parallels are very similar. Uh like I'm a zero to a hundred guy. Um, you know, to to go full Iron Man in Hawaii, you know, probably within like a year of starting triathlon is pretty extreme. Um, but I would have it no other way. Like that's just how I roll. Um same with pickleball. Yeah, you know, like when I get into something, I just I just go full on. Um I deeply believe in in action and just doing it. With something like real estate or pickleball, I don't know. There's just it's so beneficial to life in that way. So for me with real estate, um yeah, I mean, I just like from from getting into it, I knew I was just gonna go full on with it. And that's exactly what I did, basically. Um so yeah, I mean, I think with all with all anything that I'm gonna get into, it's it's just gonna be 100% like right out the gate. Let's go. I don't want to go slowly, I want to go fast. I hate learning slowly. Like I want to when I get into something, I want to learn fast. Like I want to hockey stick my my learning as much as possible.

Jason Wagner 17:07

Um and why did you think that doing the house hack was the best? Like, who planted that seed for you? Because that's how you got your first building, right?

Hart Turner 17:16

Yeah, yeah. Bigger, bigger pockets for sure. Yeah. This would be summer. How'd you come across them? Summer of 2023. Um, I basically was just researching, you know, classic, like how to build wealth, you know, like classics. I never read uh Richard Dad Port out until like a year ago. Um and I really I I kind of had an idea what was gonna be in there, but I wanted to read it anyway, just to get you know a feel for it because it's such a famous book. Um but I'm jealous of people that read that in their you know teens or in their early 20s or something like that, and actually like it actually worked for them, yeah, um, mindset-wise. But yeah, so 2023, um I was just I was working out here, I was doing my thing, I was saving and I was making more than I needed for myself as a single person. I was putting money away. And um also in 2023, my dad passed unexpectedly. Um he had been dealing with like dementia for a long time and he had aphasia, which is like what Bruce Willis has right now. Um and it was just a long, it was a long road with him um those final years, and it was very difficult. And then he just had

Dad’s Passing And Money Wake-Up

Hart Turner 18:30

this like random thing happen and um and ultimately passed away at 82. And it was very it's just unexpected. Like we had just put him into a home. We just got him out of his house, put him into a home, and he didn't even make it one year once we put him in the home. He eventually like fell, I guess, and broke his hip, and the hospital didn't know what was going on, and they thought it was his heart, and it was a crazy, you know, I don't know, um, experience to go through. And he just stopped eating and drinking. And I think he just like I think he saw a way out and just was like, I'm I'm out of here because uh dementia was not not for him. Um and so I found myself in a situation where I was like, okay, I'm probably gonna get some money here. Um, because that was his long-term care that we, my brothers and I thought were was gonna go another 10 years at at this nursing home. What'd your dad do for work? He was a construction executive his whole career. Okay. Yeah. Um like building or what was the stuff that he would work on? Yeah, he worked for Turner Construction, um, building stadiums and hospitals and you know, big um facilities like that. Yeah. Um, university buildings and all kinds of projects. But yeah, Turner's one of the biggest general contractors in the world. Um and he like ran the DC office for a for a long time. Um but anyway, yeah. So dad did construction, um, was always a corporate guy. And um and yeah, once he once he passed, um, I was like, okay, what do I what do I do here? You know, what moves do I make? I think it's important to note that pre pre-COVID, I basically did not know anything about personal finance. Like I was an actor for a long time. Like I just never cared about personal finance. I never cared about the structure of money or what was it?

Jason Wagner 20:33

Well, and it's really hard because you were getting those commercial checks which were large.

Hart Turner 20:37

Yeah, they would come in like but I never made enough to like get ahead. Yeah. I only ever made enough to just like keep doing my thing in LA. How frequent how frequent would those come though? Uh it depends on the year, you know. Like at some sometimes, you know, you get a check I don't every week or two weeks or okay, three weeks or whatever. Sometimes they're regular. And they're like a thousand here, two thousand here, five thousand here, whatever it might be. But I never I always thought I was gonna like get famous and just get rich that way. And like I thought I I thought I would at least get on a show and make, you know, 25 grand an episode or something like that, and like money would not be an issue after that. And that just it just never happened. I just never made that much that I was able to truly get ahead. I always at what point did you recognize it like, hey, I gotta pivot here?

Jason Wagner 21:28

Because you're not still doing any of the acting stuff right now, right?

Hart Turner 21:32

No. I took my first um salary when I was probably like mid-30s, something like that. Um, and I was just like tired. I did a um I did I had a role in the last American Pie movie that they made, American Reunion. What? In twenty thirteen, which is technically American Pie four. Um, full cast reunion. I lived in Atlanta for two months. It was absolutely insanely fun. It was the peak of everything I had been trying to work for. Like, you know, you got to meet like Jason Biggs and he just looks like a fun guy.

Jason Wagner 22:10

Super fun.

Hart Turner 22:11

Yeah. Absolutely fun. There was like the whole original cast, and all my scenes were with Stifler. So they're all with Sean Williams Scott, who was amazing. Um, and I'm like in Atlanta making an American Pie movie. Like as an actor who's getting paid to be there from LA, um, staying in a W hotel like for two months. Um, I was like absolutely living the dream. Like, this is amazing. Um, but I came back from that movie and I had a bunch of auditions because I had all this like hype because I just finished this big American Pie movie. No one really had seen it yet. And then the movie came out, and my role was like fine. It was a little flat, like it wasn't nearly as fun as like it could have been. Um, we shot so much fun stuff that just never made the movie. And anyway, cut to the next year, like pilot season where you get all the most of the opportunities for the year. And I didn't book anything, and I got close on stuff, I screen tested for some stuff, but I never booked anything. And my manager dropped me. And I it just like I really thought American Pie was gonna get get me going. Like I really thought that was gonna set me up and I'd be able to like work after that. And it just it didn't happen that next year. I just didn't I didn't get that next thing that I could piggyback off, and it just kind of like broke my spirit. Like I was just so frustrated because I had been doing it for a long time at that point. You know, I I'd been 10 plus years at that point. Yeah, and I was just sick of being broke. I was sick of, you know, being in a position where I just never had money and couldn't like take a girl out on a nice and sushi dinner and pay, like, oh god forbid, I spent over a hundred dollars on this dinner, whatever. Like, I just I got sick of not having money. So I took my first salary with like a tech startup, and then I did that for about a year, and then I eventually moved to Orange Theory and I worked for Orange Theory for six years in various capacities. I started as a studio manager, then I became a coach for a year, then I then I eventually moved to like our corporate office, and I did facilities management and construction for a while as like the owner rep. Um, so I would go to Orange Theory gyms and I would basically um be the owner rep and I would like monitor the progress and I'd be like, hey, what are we doing about this? What's this? And we would start all the way with the plans. So my director of operations and I would design the studios on paper and figure out okay, is this a 13-station studio? Could we get could we get 15 stations in this space? You know, how many bathrooms are we gonna have? How many showers are we gonna have, etc.? Um and we would and I loved it. Like I loved working on the plans and like for someone who had been coming from this acting world to be so interested in this whole thing was um surprising to me. But I was like, I I dig that like this is fun. I loved working with our GCs and our supers, and they, you know, everyone, I was like the person they'd call with questions, like, hey, what do we this is not working the way we thought, what do you want to do about this? Like, here are the options. And I would just, I didn't, I had the autonomy to make the decisions for the most part. And I'm like flying around visiting different gyms. I think when COVID happened, we had like 12 active construction projects at the moment, and obviously they all got shut down. And then um, so that's that was kind of like so six years of orange theory and a year of this other tech startup. So those those last like seven years in LA, I wasn't pursuing acting. Yeah, and I I I never said like I'm done with acting because it's it's deep in me. Like if I was rich tomorrow, I would just make movies. Like that's that's absolutely what I would do. But man, that's so cool. Yeah, it's the only thing I've ever really wanted to do. Yeah, truly.

Jason Wagner 25:53

Yeah.

Hart Turner 25:54

Um, and er honestly, everything else that I do, whether it's real estate or my job now or what any job that I do, it's all like it's I I don't think I'll ever be fully interested in something like that compared to like what I wanted to do and and make movies. Um But it's just a it's just a tough industry these days. So I'd I I'm not willing to give it all up to go back and be a production assistant, you know, or something like that, unless I was like wretched or something. I didn't care about money. Um but anyway, yeah. So that's just like a long long way of sort of it helps understand who I am.

Jason Wagner 26:36

Yeah, you know, and I didn't know any of this when we were working together, right?

Hart Turner 26:40

No, yeah, nothing.

Jason Wagner 26:42

I didn't know your background really much, and like it makes it way more interesting.

Hart Turner 26:46

Yeah, way more interesting. Another part of that that's a big component of me is that you know, I I felt behind a lot in life because I would see all my friends from college, they're all have great jobs and they're building their 401ks and they're getting their second house and their third house and they're getting married and they're doing all the things. And I knew I was making sacrifices being in LA. I knew pursuing my dream was gonna require sacrificing those things, and I was okay with that because I was a hundred percent. I was all in. I mean, imagine knowing what you know about me with real estate and pickleball and everything. Imagine that with acting. Like I gave it everything I possibly could. Yeah. And the the thing that sucks about that industry is that it doesn't matter. Doesn't matter how hard you work, doesn't matter, like things just you have to get lucky.

Jason Wagner 27:34

You have to is it a networking thing?

Hart Turner 27:37

It is, but it's not only that. It's it's so much. Um, it's definitely about who you know for sure. All the good roles that I got when I was out there, I I created for my own relationships, for sure. It was never just like some audition that I just got and I got this great role. The reason I got American Pie was because I knew the casting director and I had been taking his classes for like two years because he was an acting coach. And it was just it was just the the timing of him breaking off with his partner at the time, starting his own thing, getting American Reunion right as I was coming back to his classes because I had been off like working and doing stuff, and I went back and he announced that he had just like become the casting director of this movie, and I was like, Jay, I'm gonna be in this movie, like this is perfect for me. And he's like, Hey, well, you know, we'll see. And and I just like pursued that hard, but that relationship was there, you know. So, yeah, it's just it's a lot, you know. You can have a great career if you're just an amazing looking person, you can probably get work. Um, you know, we we see that a lot, but generally speaking, if you're just like a grinding actor, like yeah, you either need to just be out there as long as it takes. And I mean, even like a Brian Cranston or something like that, yeah, didn't do Malcolm in the Mill until he was probably in his late 40s, early 50s, I would imagine. Um, and then that was really what started his career, and then he got break, and then he got breaking bad after that. So there's an argument for grinding it out. Did you did you meet Brian Cranson? No, I wish. I love Brian Cranston. Um that's all to say that like when I came out of this 20 years of LA, even with Orange Theory and everything, I still deeply felt like I gotta catch up here. Like, I don't have all these things that my friends have. Um and I was, you know, I was in my early 40s and didn't really have much going on by way of like retirement savings. Um, and I so I was really already researching like how do I start building those things. And a big thing with pre-COVID, like I was saying, coming back to that, was um in 2019, toward the end of 2019, I started reading um Ramit Seti's I Will Teach You to Be Rich.

Jason Wagner 29:57

I have that book. Yeah, I haven't read it though.

Hart Turner 29:58

Yeah, yeah. That book for me was really my first personal finance book, and that was my rich dad, poor dad. Um Ramit's book was my was my rich dad, poor dad. Like when I read that, I was like, okay, I get I can take these steps. Like, I get I'm gonna drop my Bank of America savings account and start a high yield savings account. I'm gonna open an investor checking account. I'm gonna start um, you know, this and this and this. Um, I'm gonna build my my Roth with and now I know what to actually have in the Roth because previously it had been managed by someone else. Um and I had no idea what was what was in there. But that so anyway, I was building my knowledge of personal finance um going into 2020. And then literally the first week that I deposited money into my my new e-trade account that I just set up was roughly the first week of roughly the last week of February 2020. That was my first deposit. Yeah. And then like a week later, I I think I put a little bit more in, and I put a little bit more in, and then and then COVID happened, like within two weeks of me getting into e-trade for the first time. And I was like, this is awful. Like, why does anyone do this? This is terrible. I'm already down for 30% of what I the money I just put in. Literally, if only you were a month later, exactly that would have been the best buying opportunity ever. Exactly. But I I didn't know, I didn't know anything, and I was not able to capitalize at all on COVID opportunities because now in hindsight, I I would know. I was buying like bio stocks and I was trying to pick winners during COVID because I was brand new to investing and I didn't know what what the heck I was doing. Now I would just deeply be buying SP and you know stuff like that. Um, but it took a while to learn those lessons for myself. But anyway, so that's all to say. Like I didn't I didn't really figure out money until I was like 40, you know, or until I was like, well, not quite 40, but yeah, like 2020, so six years ago, 38, something like that. Yeah. Um, I did not have any idea what I was doing with personal finance or real estate or investing or anything like that until late, late 30s. So that that was really driving me. So when we talk about me and what I do with real estate and how I go hard on it, it's because I'm like, I gotta catch up, like I gotta get stuff going here. Um and and and real estate was really the first thing that I saw where I was like, this makes sense to me as I'm I'm listening to Bigger Pockets for the first time, summer 2023. I was like, man, this makes sense. I remember I was listening to an episode and it was like a rookie episode, and they were just talking about, oh, you know, you buy this property and it's it's four thousand dollars a month for your payment, but that but it brings in $2,500

BiggerPockets To Chicago Meetups

Hart Turner 32:50

a unit, and so you're bringing in $5,000, so that's a thousand right there. And hey, you get 10 of those, now you have ten thousand dollars of income. I was like, oh my god, like that makes a lot of sense to me, and it's really pretty simple. Um, and that was a big light bulb moment for me. And I was like, I could, I feel like I could do that. I had no idea how interest rates worked, I didn't know anything about anything, but that was enough for me to sign up, sign up for a um Bigger Pockets convention. I just signed up. I was like, I'm I'm just gonna do this. And I signed up for a like a rookie boot camp with Bigger Pockets that kind of ran around the same timeline. And this was like, you know, three months later was the convention. Um so it was like a big thing that I signed up for it, and it was a big commitment to myself, like, okay, I'm gonna do this. Um and I don't know anything about anything. And I went to Bigger Pockets that first year, Orlando, 2023. And I that was just I learned a ton. And I I learned, okay, you know, it's not as easy as it sounds like, you know, interest rates are hard. Like the whole theme of that convention was like, okay, things are hard right now. You know, it's not easy, you know, blah, blah, blah. And I was like, oh damn, I didn't realize things were hard, you know. Like, I thought this was like gonna be, you know, not easy, but like I didn't understand rates, I didn't understand anything. So I learned all that stuff basically at that convention, just talking to people like crazy. Yeah. And um making friends with other investors there, networking.

Jason Wagner 34:22

Did you find a lot of you find a lot of newbies that were at that conference?

Hart Turner 34:26

Uh definitely, yeah. It's a really good blend of people that that go to them. You got these, you you know, you have one conversation with a seasoned investor who's got 400 units, and then you go over here and and they have none, you know. And then you go over to here and it's a whole different thing. Um, so it's it's all over the place. But yeah, I I clicked with a group of guys there um that I met individually one by one, and you know, just networking, walking up to people, people walking up to me. And that group turned into um basically we the the whole thing ended with uh we went to Universal Studios and Bigger Pockets rented out bigger, um, rented out Universal Studios. So we had the entire place to ourself as a buyout with like bar stationary bars all over the place, all the rides are open, all the Harry Potter stuff is wide open, no lines. It's pretty wild.

Jason Wagner 35:22

Yeah, it was the bigger pockets could do that. Yeah, because uh I mean it's it's just incredible to see how bigger pockets has really grown. Do you remember when we first started listening?

Hart Turner 35:32

Oh yeah.

Jason Wagner 35:33

I mean, it was um I quit my job in 2016, but I was listening to it probably in 2013. Um because it took it took me three years. It took me three years to like really study it. Yeah. And it was just Brandon Turner, yeah, and uh Josh Dorgan. Yeah, it was like just the two of them. And they were just doing this little this little podcast that was like incredible value, incredible value, and then obviously it's uh it's become what it is. Yeah. So yeah, I can only imagine. Dude, that's that's great. That's great. Um that's I mean, just a just a great resource. Well, it's it's kind of funny. Um I've personally I've kind of not uh I haven't been as attached to bigger pockets like how I when I first started. Um I've gotten really attached to kind of the local stuff. And I found that that's been like really valuable. And obviously like Mark and Tom and like the straight up the straight up show that they have is just incredibly Margaret Tom. Oh my god. I mean they're what what they have done is just two guys. Yeah. And they just created this behemoth of a podcast that is local to Chicago. And when you actually think about how intricate Chicago is and all the different neighborhoods, the seven, seven different neighborhoods, and then all the rental requirements and the nuances and the constantly changing laws. Like you need a show like that. Yeah, and you need more of that stuff. And so I I I ended up gravitating towards uh towards listening to a lot of their content, which is localized. Yeah. Um, I mean, that's how you learn.

Hart Turner 37:08

But it's I think that's probably very normal, is that bigger pockets is the gateway drug that gets you in, gives you an understanding of how this world works, and then you and then you niche down. Yeah. You know? But yeah, I'm I'm going on um Straight Chicago uh in July. Good. Third week of July. Let's go. Super excited. Dude, this is great. That's gonna be very full circle for me.

Jason Wagner 37:30

This is this that's that's uh awesome. This is my this is my training, you guys. So really funny because um a lot of our guests we like feed that show. Yeah, hell yeah. I mean, we're we're a fraction. We're a fraction of what they are, yeah. But it's it's good training grounds.

Hart Turner 37:45

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, you're like this is the minor leagues of leading up to the big leagues, yeah.

Jason Wagner 37:49

Yeah, that's the big leagues.

Hart Turner 37:50

Yeah, I love it.

Jason Wagner 37:51

Yeah, yeah.

Hart Turner 37:52

No, um I'm I'm extremely excited. Yeah, because that that has been a huge resource for for me for sure, as so many other Chicago investors as well. But yeah, it's amazing that that exists, you know.

Rachel Wagner 38:05

Yeah, and it's so how did you get from going to the bigger pockets convention down in Orlando to going to the multifamily club party here? Yep. Um, or meetups here. It's not always just a party. I only come for the Christmas party.

Hart Turner 38:17

But um, you had asked earlier how did I get with the house hacking and five percent, and to answer that goes back to that conven uh convention. So at that convention, I kinda a lot of people were talking about that. Because it if you recall, it hadn't even happened yet. Five percent down didn't roll out with Fannie Freddie until November 2023. That's right. Yeah. So people were saying, hey, there's this new program that's coming. There's this new program, new program, five percent down, like it's coming back. Or I mean it was always three and a half percent for FHA. For FHA. So like that was always a thing. And then But are were people buying like four flat four

Five Percent Down And Loan Basics

Hart Turner 38:55

unit gray zones here on FHA? Yes, they were.

Jason Wagner 38:57

So that's how we so before because we bought our first in 2020, um, which was an FHA four unit. And I don't know. For some reason, there is a taintedness of like, ooh, FHA, I don't qualify for that. Or people just don't like they they kind of write it off and they don't think it was an option.

Hart Turner 39:16

Um, I thought it was not an option because of self-sustainability test.

Jason Wagner 39:20

So yes, but a lot of well, and at the 2023 time, that's when rates started really changing. Um because when we did it, we were able to pass. I mean, you could pass the self-sufficient the self-sufficiency test. Okay. Um but yes, correct. As they brought out the five percent down, they eliminated that test. Uh that uh that test is a little funky, but you could you could pull levers. Okay. So like you, you know, it's it's your P I T I, right? So the way that sometimes one of the tricks to get a four unit to pass um, you know, maybe today, is you are jacking up your insurance or you're making your insurance as low as possible on a monthly rate. So meaning your deductible is yeah, like the highest it could possibly be. Sure. So instead of having uh, you know, $200 a month uh insurance bill, it's like $35 or $40. Sure. And that like if that if that's one of the levers that you pull, you pull it and then you close on it, and then immediately call your insurance broker, give me the old insurance again. For sure. Yeah. So yeah. Uh anyways, but yes, that the five percent down really unlocked, just you didn't have to worry about that headache.

Hart Turner 40:37

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Well, people were really hyping that up, that that convention, and I was like, Oh, I'll just do that. That sounds great. Because I was, you know, single. I could move anywhere, I could move into anything. Um, and I was like, I'll, you know, I've I've got I got that down payment, so I can do that. So I'll just do that. Um, and that's you know what I left there with. I was like, okay, I'm gonna go get my first building, and I'm gonna do five percent down, I'm gonna try to get four units, uh, or at least three, and that's the plan. And then basically I left um, I left that convention, so that would have been October 2023. And I didn't get to start building shopping truly until March 2024 because I had been waiting for my tax returns because I'm 1099. Um, so I had to, you know, lenders I was talking to, they were like, you know, we're gonna need the new, the new year. Also, I could have gone two years back, but two years back at that time was when I was on furlough from COVID. Um, because we didn't even get into that, but I got furloughed for six months. So I was unemployed for six months in 2021. And that's ultimately why I moved to Chicago, because I got furloughed from Orange Theory in LA and I needed to like move on. I was kind of ready to leave LA. I had an opportunity to come work in Chicago. Um, so so I took it, but I was unemployed for six months. So my lender was like, if we just wait till you can file, you know, the new taxes, then we can use um the last two years, which will be better, because then we can do 22 and 23. Um, and that'll give you significantly better buying power. So that made sense to me. Little did I know you can't just do your taxes in January 2nd. You know what I mean? Like you have to wait for all these 1099s to come back, brokerage 10 1099s, etc. You're waiting for the you know tax documents. Um, so I didn't get to get them done until like March. So from October to March was like painful for me because I was so amped up, I was so ready to go, and I couldn't do anything. And I just had to like I felt very much on the sidelines, and I just was so dying to get in the game, and I just couldn't. Um, so that was that was a tough period. Finally, I got the taxes going and done. Finally, I got my approval from the lender, and I was able to start uh going after my first building in in March 2024.

Jason Wagner 43:03

And then I that's half the battle, man. It's just yeah, especially when you're kind of self-employed 1099 like that. It's just it's waiting for that cycle. It's it's really hard. Yeah, one of the one of the biggest, one of the easiest things that happened for us was that Rachel was still working when we bought our first building.

Hart Turner 43:20

Yeah, yeah.

Jason Wagner 43:21

And you know, having that salary, you gotta be salaried. If you want it, the easiest path of least resistance, sure, be salaried. Sure. Just have an offer letter. You don't even have to have the like the real like have you have the job, but the moment you get the offer letter is the moment that you can go start buying properties right because you have an income that is going to be recurring that a lender can count on. Yeah. And so you checked. You don't need to be there for six months, you've got the offer letter in hand, and now you can start going. Yeah. And we we've always kind of joked. It was what was it that you like to say?

Rachel Wagner 43:58

Well, I'll go back to work if we're gonna buy another. Building. Yeah.

Jason Wagner 44:02

Yeah. So Rachel, Rachel stays home, and um, you know, she was always like that steadied salary for us.

Hart Turner 44:09

Yeah.

Jason Wagner 44:09

And then uh, you know, by everything that we've done, it was it was finally time to reorder, and like, hey, you don't have to work and you can stay home with the kids and kind of do that. But then it's like, well, if you want, you could go back to work and we could have you know easier lending. And because it's hard, it's hard when you're self-employed, you know. You gotta give them you gotta give them all the tax returns. You gotta give them a lot of people.

Hart Turner 44:32

I mean, just look at our failed, you know, attempt number one on the yeah.

Jason Wagner 44:36

Yeah, I mean, so it's so that was actually and um I want to talk about that because that uh I should have expected that because it's it's very difficult when you've got both people that are because you're 1089, yeah, right? Yeah, and uh yeah, it's it's really difficult to get both people to qualify um when you got that scenario. I was just glad. Like why don't you talk why don't you talk through like what that was? Um let's let's talk let's talk about the building, let's talk about the financing, let's talk about the negotiation, and then how we ended up closing it.

Hart Turner 45:10

Let's let's do the first two real quick first, okay, so we can get to that one. Um, but that first one, so building shopping in March. Um, I probably saw over 20 buildings um over the course of the next like two months. And I wrote four offers, and the first three just didn't work out for various reasons, and it was a grind, you know. I mean, like as someone who's writing their first offer on multifamily, you're just so nervous, you know, and you're just like, oh my God. And and it's

First Deal Grind And REO Surprises

Hart Turner 45:40

it's hard when you're when your realtor says, like, all right, what's your number? Give me a number, and you just have to make up a number, you know, and like figure out what works for you and what works for the underwriting and s and stuff. And I just remember being like, man, this is hard. I just have to like give a number. Um, and then you've got competing offers, and you don't know who else is where, and you know, it's it's a whole thing. But anyway, so I I lost out on those first three, then the fourth one came along. It was an Ario deal. It was, you know, bank-owned uh previous foreclosure that they had fixed up, and it was essentially turkey. And by the way, I think it's worth commenting that like I had been looking for uh you know some lipstick on a pig. I had been looking for something that I could do renovations on or updates, and people were like, Oh, you go find a building that needs you know 20,000, 40,000 worth of repairs. Oh, you get rid of the carpet, you put hard wood in, you do fixtures. And I'm like, I didn't see any of that in those buildings, 20 or 30 buildings that I saw. Everything needed a couple hundred thousand dollars worth of work. Yeah. Yeah. These buildings from 1884 or whatever, like as early as full mechanicals, HVAC, you know, in-unit laundry, this and that, like full-blown gut rehabs a lot of the time. And I just didn't see anything where I could just put a small amount into it and have this great return. Like I did not see that. And I feel like that's important to note because people talk about that a lot. And in my experience, that was not what I found. So I remember when I put my first offer, and it was uh it was a uh turnkey building, and I felt so guilty like offering on a turnkey because I was like, this isn't what I'm supposed to do. I'm supposed to value add, I'm supposed to force appreciation, I'm force, um, you know, I'm supposed to like force equity. And I just felt like I was doing it wrong to do um a turnkey. Yeah. But I was like, but what else am I gonna do? Just keep waiting and waiting. Like, I want to get this thing going. Like, I'll worry about the you know, value add on on next year, on the next one. So so I accepted the fact that it was okay to do turnkey, and I and I started offering on those. Um and I ended up close I ended up getting my my fourth offer uh for this REO building through Unit Graystone in Humboldt Park. And you know, I was thrilled, I was super excited, finally under contract, and then we were contingent for five months, five months because of the water bill, and there was like this big holdup with the city and the water. Um, something about the water bill. Like I still don't fully understand it, but I guess there was like a $13,000 water bill on the property from the foreclosure time and and the bank just didn't want to pay it or thought that they were weren't supposed to pay it or something like that. And I even spoke to the water company and they told me that the bank doesn't owe them for that, yeah, that they have to go after the previous tenant. So I don't know what the holdup was, but it was it was five months under contract. I went under contract in July, I believe, and I didn't close until November. And I it was and like I won't even get into it, but the the inspection went terribly. Um, inspector was you know doing a stress test on the water of the property. Next thing you know, the walls were bubbling up with water, and like it was a whole thing, and the plumbing got the plumbing backed up basically because it the building hadn't been used in so long, and or for whatever reason, but the main drain backed up, so water had been flowing over, spilling down into the basement. And I was like, Do I get out? I'm a first-time buyer, like this is terrifying, you know? And ultimately, I spoke to a lot of investors at the time, and most people were like, they're gonna they're gonna take care of it. And this is honestly kind of best case scenario because you're gonna get insight into your building that you would never get if it was fully occupied, because they're gonna open up the walls, they're gonna redo the plumbing. They redid the entire plumbing stack. This is the bank doing that. The bank did that, yeah. Wow. So they they literally opened up all the all three walls um on all three units, and they they fully rebuilt the plumbing stack. Wow. And they left it open.

Jason Wagner 50:03

So is that what happened? It like disconnected or like it fell through, or what dude?

Hart Turner 50:08

I don't even know. You don't even know what the source was. I don't even know exactly what happened. Yeah, but the like the original drum main drain in the basement um was like cast iron, like old school metal, you know. And they took all that out, it's all full PVC now and the whole thing. Um, but they they ran it all the way through to each bathroom, and we they let us come look at it. So I was able to come back and see the work with the walls open. Um and just yeah, the investors I talked to were like, dude, that's amazing. Like, you're never gonna have that kind of you know, um insight into your plumbing on a new building most of the time, unless you built it yourself. Yeah. Um so I, you know, I eventually got over it, but it was scary, like for my first deal. It also just threw off the whole timeline because I didn't now I missed the entire summer cycle, so I didn't close until November. And that was a long five months. Being under contract was was wild. So during that time, I had been posting about real estate, been posting about my journey. And um, I I posted literally my first post about real estate on Instagram. Um, because I did a YouTube video where I was talking about my experiences. You can still see the comment on there where AJ was like, yo, dude, I'm in real estate too. We should talk. Ah, and like the comment's still on that video, and then sure enough, AJ became my partner on my second building because that summer we start we did start talking, and he's an old friend of mine, so it was just like, dude, what are you doing? I knew that he had been flipping and stuff like that. Um, but anyway, we connected and he was interested in buying long-term, you know, property, but didn't want to do it in Los Angeles and was interested in doing it in Chicago because he has family here. And he was like, Let's partner up.

Jason Wagner 51:57

Was that just a price point thing? Why didn't he want to do it?

Hart Turner 51:59

Yeah, just numbers

Partnering Up With A DSCR Loan

Hart Turner 52:00

don't make sense. You know, it's it's so expensive out there, and the rents just don't can't handle that. So I just I don't know who's buying, you know, buildings like that in LA if it's two million dollars or whatever for a four-unit or whatever, but and they can only generate two thousand each or something like that. I just don't the math just doesn't make any sense to me or to him, which is why he doesn't invest there. Yeah. And by the way, like no one owns it, no one's owns in LA. Like all my friends throughout the 20 years I lived there, very, very few of them own their homes. Like everybody rents because it's so unaffordable. It's like a million dollars if you want a condo in West Hollywood. Um, it's just crazy. And when I got to Chicago, I'm like, oh wow, like you can actually afford stuff here. Like you can buy a condo for 200 something, 300 grand, and in like a great part of town and like have a super cool building and have a cool piece of property. Um, I didn't know about multifamily yet, but just the condo market alone. I was like, wow, this is actually doable. And I'm an apartment locator in Chicago.

Jason Wagner 53:07

You can be in the loop, you can be in the river north.

Hart Turner 53:09

I'm seeing kids $200,000. Exactly.

Jason Wagner 53:12

Comes with an HOA fee, but yeah, still.

Hart Turner 53:14

But I'm seeing kids who are early 20s who are like buying condos, and I'm just like, wow, this is so different than Los Angeles because this is just not a thing in LA. Um, so that was exciting when I when I got out here. But anyway, so I so AJ and I started talking, and we knew I had just I was still under contract on my first building on Evergreen, and basically I knew that we were gonna have to put 20% down, we're gonna have to do it like as an investor deal, which was okay. So we basically figured out what would make sense for us, and we went after a DSDR loan, and we got approved no problem, and started looking at properties while I was waiting for my first property to close, and we just started looking at stuff, and same thing, like we were really looking for value add, and I just like I just couldn't find it without needing another hundred or two hundred grand. Um, and ultimately we found this building that was right around the corner from my first building that I was still under contract on. PS I then go back to BP Con that October, uh, so for BPCon 2024, still owning nothing, which was really hard for me. I was like, it was a big point of pride to have to go back with zero still a year later, even though I had been working so freaking hard on this process. Yeah. And um, and I went back and then I got back from BP Con, and then we found my my second building, and we went and saw it, wrote an offer right away. Two flat in Humboldt Park around the corner from my my first one. Um beautiful, beautiful two-flat um turnkey, ready to go. Um, and and got under contract on it. And then the way it worked out is that I closed I finally called got the clear to close on Evergreen and then like two weeks later closed on Potomac. So like literally acquired two buildings within two weeks. And I was like, here we freaking go, you know. This is wow. Um, but it was very exciting. And then now, you know, we're going into 2025, right? Going into 2025 with with five units, and and all of them were vacant. They all needed to be filled. And a big learning point for me, and by the way, that was that was DSCR, and that was, you know, that came down to the appraisal.

Jason Wagner 55:43

Explain explain the DSCR, right?

Hart Turner 55:44

Yeah, so debt service coverage ratio loan. So it's a bit more like a commercial loan in the sense that they're looking at what is the debt service on this property, can it cover itself? Um, it has to be 20% down. It's typically like 80% loan to value. Um, so we so we put that 20% down. And we've got this building. We we basically um needed to hit a certain on the rental appraisal, had to come back our way because if it came back too low, then our our ratio is not strong enough, and we need like a one to one point two ratio. Um and we were like this very well could not happen because we could come back at you know, you know, 2300 or something per unit, and we needed like 26 or something like that. I can't remember the exact numbers, but it came back at like 2650 or something like that each, and we and we hit the uh the ratio we needed, which was like amazing. Um and we were able to and and the math did work. Like we we did know that if we were to get this thing, it was a high rate at the time because it was DSCR, you pay a little bit more for DSCR. And also for DSCR, they don't take in your personal debt-to-income ratio. They're really just looking more at the property and what the property can do, which is amazing. And P.S. You can have uh unlimited DSCR loans, whereas like you can only have what 10 personal mortgages. Yeah, something like that. Yeah. So, you know, DSCR can the building essentially cover itself with its its um income. That's right. Yeah. So we were able to get that loan, get that done. We close, we closed on December 30th. Um is when I oh I guess actually, yeah, I didn't c I didn't close within two weeks. I went under contract within two weeks uh for Potomac. Um we closed on December 30th. And it was just a it was a good buy. It was we got a great price on it, I think. Um I think that thing's already probably appreciated 100 grand since we bought it. Um if we were to put it on the market now. Um I think I would you're probably right. I would easily put it for 100 higher than we bought it. Yeah, um I think you could totally do that. I think we bought that really well. I think I bought Evergreen kind of high. Um, so which one was the Rio? Uh Evergreen. Okay. Yeah.

Rachel Wagner 58:08

What neighborhoods are we talking? Humboldt Park.

Hart Turner 58:11

Yeah, right along the west side of the park.

Rachel Wagner 58:13

Okay.

Hart Turner 58:14

Um, just coincidence that they were around they're around the corner from each other. Like it is a three and a half minute walk. It's it's really amazing. It's super convenient.

Jason Wagner 58:23

So it's really funny because uh we did the same thing.

Rachel Wagner 58:27

Yeah, we did.

Jason Wagner 58:28

So we bought yeah, um we bought on Sunnyside and Portage Park, and then um we bought on Leland, which is literally like two streets up.

Rachel Wagner 58:36

Yeah.

Jason Wagner 58:37

Same five-minute walk from each other. Yeah, yeah.

Rachel Wagner 58:39

And then and then across the street.

Jason Wagner 58:41

And then across the street. Amazing. That ended up being our single family home. Yeah, we on the same on the same street, we own uh two properties, a single family home, and then literally the multifamily across the street, which we partnered with uh one of my agents. Did you ever meet Brian Brian D. Smone? Um name doesn't ring a bell. Okay, all right. He's uh he's one of our best agents. Um so, anyways, he he, I and uh and his wife, we we partnered on on a house hack. And so, anyways, there's something about there's something about having the walkability, well, especially when you're first starting. Sure. It's like yeah, really knowing the neighborhood. Yeah. And it just gives you confidence, right?

Hart Turner 59:18

So and I did not know the neighborhoods when I was getting into it.

Jason Wagner 59:21

Yeah.

Hart Turner 59:21

I that's another thing that's good for like a beginner note, is that when I first started working with that first agent, I was like, I'll live anywhere, you know, I just want the best deal. Like, and then I quickly started seeing places, I quickly learned like, okay, maybe I I won't live anywhere. Like maybe maybe we reel that in a little bit. But I was I was looking at places in Albany Park, Old Irving, I was looking at places in um Humboldt, and obviously like West Town and Ukrainian stuff like that. Um, but I was really open to a really big uh area for the most part. We were looking at Pilsen. I looked at a couple buildings in Pilsen, um, and I would have gone forward on any of those. It just happened to work out that it ended up being this Humboldt deal. Nice.

Jason Wagner 1:00:05

Um and well the rents well, I mean, here's what's part of that is that Humboldt offers really solid rents and buildings that just aren't priced as high as what they should be. In my opinion, I think Humboldt Park is very undervalued. And your rent to price ratios. Well, I went I went on I went on straight up and they were like, What's the what's one of the best

Midterm Rental Experiment Gone Wrong

Jason Wagner 1:00:30

uh neighborhoods that you think is like and coming? And I and I said Humboldt Park because Oh, I know I sent that clip to many people. Oh, good, good. And a and a lot of it was really as I was really analyzing your deal, I was like, dude, this is this is freaking great. And um you know, so there's a there's a lot of the west side of the park that like still has more to go. Yeah um, but the inventory has dropped the the prices literally I had that clip. And then the the new numbers came out, and they're like the prices at Humboldt Park went up 15% for two to four units. I was like, dude, those are those are big numbers for that for that neighborhood. Yeah, yeah. So that's anyways, I'm all I'm all for it. Keep going. Yeah.

Hart Turner 1:01:12

No, it just it was it was cool. And I I mean Humboldt has changed a lot even since I went under contract. Like when I went under contract and I was driving North Av, there were still tents all through the park. And I I don't know enough about Chicago because I've only lived here for five years. At that point, you know, three and a half. I was like, is is this an okay area? Like, I don't I don't know, but everyone I talked to was raving about it and loved it. So I was like, I guess it's a good area, you know. Um, I did not love all the tents and stuff because that that did worry me a bit. But by the time I actually closed, all that was cleaned up. The park was nicely manicured and landscaped and looked great. And I was like, oh wow, this has changed just since I wanted a contract already.

Jason Wagner 1:01:59

It's changed fast.

Hart Turner 1:02:00

It's changed quite fast, yeah. And um, and then I moved in, I didn't know what to expect, and I loved it. And you know, I lived there for a little. So when I finally closed on Evergreen, closed on Potomac, I've got a partner on the second deal, which was which was great. It's fun to have a partner and have that, you know, bounce ideas off and so forth. Evergreen, you know, without spending too much time on it, I decided to make them midterm rentals. And this is a big part of my my investing, like learning lessons here. I fully furnished my other two units um in that building. Um, fully. It was my life for like January and February of 2025 was furnishing those units, building the furniture, setting it up on Wayfair, the whole thing. Fully set these things up, got them set up finally, and then ultimately just found that I was like, I don't like this. I don't people want to book it for like only the summer. They want it for like, you know, this and is it close to the train? Is it this? Is it this? And it just like I realized like probably was not the right thing to do with a with three-bed, one bath, because who's really looking for a three-bed? You know, I think if it had been a one, a lot of people wanted like one bedroom, they were single. I think if it had been one bedroom or like a studio, it would have been very doable for midterm rentals. Um, but for three beds, I just was it was on every website, furnished finder, vrbo, airbnb, everything. And I just like did not like the interest. It was just people wanted it for like everyone wanted it for June, July. And like no, no interest, February, March, and April. And I just found that it like it wasn't working. And it was really I had been documenting it all over my Instagram as I built that. And eventually people were like, you know, at what point do you do you sell everything and rent these things long term? And the reason I did a part of the reason I did midterm was because it was seasonal. I closed in November. I was so worried that I was gonna get terrible rents uh, you know, in December and January, and I was gonna have to do like a longer lease to get to the following summer. And and I I'm already tight on the margins of that building. You know, that's the tightest building I have for sure. So I just couldn't afford to like take multiple hundred dollar hits on each unit um because they would have had to come out of my pocket. All of a sudden, it would have cost me $4,000 a month to live there or something like that, well beyond what I was hoping I would pay there as a house hacker. So anyway, I scrapped the bid term. I did a fire sale, sold everything. Um it was a ridiculous process. It's like laughable to look back on it. I mean, it was so much work to set all that stuff up, and then I had to completely dismantle everything and take a hit on everything I had spent. And fortunately, I got really lucky. I came across um my first agent referred me to a guy who manages Airbnbs. He was setting up a client for a big house, and they bought like a ton of stuff that I never would have sold individually. Like they bought a lot, and that was huge, huge for me, really helpful. And um ultimately I just rented them long term and I just I just bailed on that. But also now we're like in March, you know, so like all of a sudden the demand is really there again, which is part of the reason I think I bailed because the timing had worked out. I don't know what I would have done if it was like November at that time. Yeah. Um but that was a big learning lesson.

Jason Wagner 1:05:41

No, it's it's really big insight because um so we have two midterm rentals. Oh, okay. I didn't know that. Yeah. Um, but we converted our two garden units to midterm rentals. Okay. And they're two bed, one bath. Um they do they're they're not what part of town? Portage Park. And they're not near hospitals. Um they surprisingly do very well. But I've had the same thought as you. Um I think the reason they do well is that they they aren't three bedrooms. Um the people that end up renting them a lot of the times it's it's one person. Or maybe it's maybe it's them and the spouse. Um but a lot of times it's just it's just one person. And so the two bedroom makes sense because it's they need an office. Yeah. And so as you get to that, if it's only a single individual that you're leasing it to, they would never want the three the three bedroom. I I mean it's just yeah. Yeah. So I I think that's a really big lesson. Um is that if you do kind of have like those off units, yeah, you can really you can really get a lot more um income from those if they are. I mean, unsurprisingly, the garden units have done have done good for us. Um, but I've had that same thought where it's like, you know, we do lease them, um, you know, they'll stay for three months, four months, and then oh crap, now they're gonna leave in the winter time. And then, you know, hopefully I get somebody.

Hart Turner 1:07:12

Yeah.

Jason Wagner 1:07:12

And um sometimes I do, and then there was one year that we didn't, yeah, and it was it was vacant for like two months.

Hart Turner 1:07:19

Yeah.

Jason Wagner 1:07:19

Um, I was like, damn, well, that kind of sucks. Yeah. Because when you're vacant for two months, like your most expensive expense is your vacancy. Yeah. Is it your that's your most expensive one? For sure. Yeah. If you don't have somebody paying you that month, like that's the most expensive thing on on your PL. Absolutely. Um so, anyways, I don't blame you for going long term. And uh you probably have less stress.

Hart Turner 1:07:42

Oh, way less. Yeah. It's just, you know, it's like someone made a great analogy. They said it's like um, it's like long-term investing or versus day trading, you know. And I and I was like, Yeah, that's very true. Like, I'm always gonna have to worry about the next tenant, always gonna have to worry about how long they're staying, when are they leaving, oh, is that off season, whatever. Um, so yeah, I mean, I think if you have one beds and you live by a hospital or something like that, then you'll you'll probably do just fine. But I just didn't know what I didn't know until I knew it, until I was in it. Yeah, and then and then I realized, like, ah, okay, I see the error of my ways here. Yeah. Um, so that's that is my biggest uh real estate mistake so far. If I could go back, I would just rent those things immediately, long term, take the hit on the rent, and just move forward and just have those mortgages have the mortgage help covered because I had to cover my own mortgage like twice or something like that before I got it going. And that was expensive, you know, yeah, very expensive. And so, like, yeah, thinking back on those first three months, I I have lots of regrets. Uh, things that I would do differently now that I know.

Jason Wagner 1:08:50

It's good, it's good to share that stuff though, because that's that's the reality. Um totally. You know, we had um one one piece that I don't like doing really is leasing to just if you were to buy a condo. Like a lot of people are like, oh, could I buy a condo and then just lease it out? We we have that. We actually own a condo at Wicker Park. Um, it's on the west side of Wicker Park, so it's it's close to Humboldt. It's uh Western and uh uh North Ave.

Hart Turner 1:09:15

Oh yeah.

Jason Wagner 1:09:16

Um COVID hit. And the two years prior to that, or the one year prior to that, we had people out the door lining up for the long term, and then COVID hit, and then all the hipsters like left town and they went to go live with their parents' house. Yeah, and I couldn't lease the property. And the property sat sat vacant for three months, four months. No, it was it was like six months of of of vacancy. Wow. And I just kept cutting the price, kept cutting the price, and I'm like, dude, I went from having people out the door multiple bids on the rent price that I had once before to now completely vacant, cutting price, and it sucked because we had the front of that mortgage.

Hart Turner 1:10:03

Yeah.

Jason Wagner 1:10:04

Um and then uh finally it's back to where it was COVID, it's finally a little bit better than that. Um but yeah, it's it makes you think about like, all right, what are the mistakes? The mistake was well, if you only got one unit that's paying you rent and you don't have somebody paying that rent, you're screwed. Yeah. And how long, how long can you absorb that pain? Yeah. And so that's why like for you who was bought three units, four units, like you actually had some offsetting income there. And so that's that's kind of the nature of like when I go and tell some other investors, right? Hey, you should really think about like buying more units is actually less risky than even though it's higher on a price, buying more units is less risky than buying like one or two. Yeah.

Hart Turner 1:10:52

Yeah, I could see that. Yeah for sure. Um but yeah, and I guess that takes us to our to number three. Fairfield. Um, because eventually I've I rent those long term, got the renters in there, and that was like such a sigh of relief, you know, once those leases started in Evergreen. And by the way, I was by myself in this three flat for like, you know, November, December, January, February, for five months. I was by myself. It was like a weird thing coming and going and being like, you know, you feel like these buildings have energy,

Third Deal Chaos And Partner Swap

Hart Turner 1:11:25

they have history, they you know, and you're like, it's just weird for them to be empty in that way. Very good. And I was like so You remember that? Yeah. I remember the first I remember the first night that my the my first tenants moved in below me, and I could like hear little noises and like hear, you know, doors closing and stuff, and I was like, oh man, there's like people in the building now. Like this is exciting, you know? Yeah, and then and then the and then the first floor tenant moved in shortly after that, and then it was like full on, and then it was great. And by the way, I I also think it's worth mentioning that totally became friends with my tenants. Like, you know, so many people tell you not to. But I screened really well, and I, you know, I felt really good about them. I gave it a few months just to make sure, and just I paid attention to everything, and I was just like, these are just such great people.

Jason Wagner 1:12:17

Like, like what are you doing? Are you having beers with them?

Hart Turner 1:12:19

And yeah, like we're having dinner parties. Like, yeah, like one, like we started having like dinner once a month, basically, and one of the units would host and the uh the other two would go down to their unit, yeah, or we'd go up to the middle unit or something like that. Um, or if it was mine, since I don't cook, like we'd go out and get dinner somewhere in the neighborhood. And you know, they're just they're just great people, and I I just couldn't help it. I was like, these are just such cool people. I'm not gonna be like, you know, uh, like no. Yeah. Um, and other people have talked about like, you know, do you do you tell them that you're the owner? Do you tell them you're a property manager? Like, I'm not doing that. Like, no, I'm the owner. I put myself out there, like, I'm not gonna lie to them, you know, no. Um so it was it was an amazing first house act experience in that in that regard. Um and I was I wouldn't change anything. It was it was really great. Um, and they're and they're still in there, and they're and they're still amazing. Um But yeah, so we got so we got all that going, and then basically from the that summer, now all all units are fully rented. And by the way, we're gonna do midterm on the Potomac building because we thought that was like the thing to do. But after my experience, I was like, dude, we're not doing midterm. Like, I'm renting these things long term. Um, so we got it all rented, and then it was and then the year came, and it was time to like be eligible for another one. At this point, I did not have the capital anymore to buy another one myself. I had kind of expended all that um on the first two, and I was looking for a partner, and my partner from the deal number two wanted wanted to get into that as well. He loved the five percent down. Um, so we planned to do that. That was the plan. So we worked on it for a while. We talked about it for a while, we were started looking for stuff, and he's a full-time flipper in in California. And, you know, I don't I don't know the nitty-gritty of his financials. I don't know how he structures his income or and I just don't know how flipper money works in terms of like how they report on paper IRS or anything like that. But, you know, ultimately it never crossed my mind that we would not be able to get a loan. We already did it for the DSCR together. So we already successfully got a loan together on that. Um, so it came time to get the third building. And by the way, I, you know, I kind of looked at it like I was starting from scratch in terms of selecting an agent to work with. Um the the first two were great. It was two different people for the first two buildings. Um, but this third time, I just really I wanted like someone with a lot of experience and a lot of ideally a lot of like several units themselves. And that just it was less important to me on the first two times because I was just getting started myself. I didn't really know what I didn't know. But now I'm like, I want something with someone who has like a full portfolio who's been around for a while, who's managed multiple properties and you know, the logistics of that and the just the experiences of that. So I started working with someone um and that I had reached out to, and you know, the person has like 60 something units, you know, owns like 12 buildings and has owned probably 20 over the course of their investing career. Um, but they just weren't really like a they're not really a I don't think they're a true like buyer's agent. Like they're they were kind of like, oh yeah, I can like you can send me stuff, I'll take a look at it, you know, I'll help you out, you know, if I can, blah, blah, blah. But they didn't, they didn't want to be like my go-to person. So every time I like would reach out, I felt a little awkward. Like I felt a little like I was kind of like, you know, I don't know, bothering them in a way. Um, but we we did go look at a few properties. Um, didn't write any offers because just didn't find anything that made sense. Um, but in in between during that process, I saw your episode of uh Straight Chicago podcast, um, which would have been, I guess, two, whatever. Yeah, last year, year ago, um, or whenever it was. And we had known each other through the meetups and so forth. Um, and so I was very, very familiar with you, and we had met a couple times. And you I remember every time you thought I was licensed, like you're like, you're you know, or you thought I had an agent, or yeah, I think you thought I was licensed. Because you were like, You buy sell, right? And I was like, Oh no, I only do leasing, and you're like, Oh, okay. But anyway, I saw that investor, I saw that episode of yours, and I just was like, I was like, Man, I feel like this guy, I and I knew how knowledgeable you were. I knew about the report. So I saw that episode, and I just remember watching that episode thinking, like, you know, being impressed with you and just being like, this guy is super knowledgeable. Every everyone relies on his, you know, data and his um, you know, the the whole thing with the Wagner report. I I'd seen your presentation at the um at the meetup at the uh she shed. Yeah, yeah. And I I remember seeing the slide of your of your properties. Yeah. And I remember seeing the slide of your net worth. I just really remember that sticking with me because I remember it being negative, a little less negative, a little less negative, even a little positive, positive, positive, you know? Yeah. And I remember being like, oh, that's that's cool. That makes sense that that's gonna be my trajectory. Because I didn't know, I, you know, I literally didn't know how net worth was. I was like, am I and am I now a million dollars in debt? Like, am you know am I a negative million, you know, net worth now? I had to like learn how that works, you know? Yeah. And um, so anyway, so I I just remember seeing that episode of uh the podcast and thinking, like, I'm gonna reach out to Jason. I think uh I think he'd be a great fit for me. Plus, I I really like his um experience, his portfolio, you know, obviously all the respect that you have within the industry, how active you are in the industry, you're sponsoring all kinds of meetups and stuff. I see you there all the time. Um, and I just thought we'd have a good rapport. And I also thought that I just would like I said, I really respected the the portfolio and the experience and what you had been doing. And I love the fact that making me blush, man. I love the fact that Graystone agents have to be investors. Like I think that that's huge. Yeah. And you know, it was what I needed because I like I said, I needed someone who was like where I want to be in a couple of years. Yeah. Um, so so I reached out. I remember, I remember texting you and being like, hey, can we talk? Um, and then once that started, that was like, you know, right away it was like exactly what I had been hoping it that it was gonna be. And then we just hit the ground running from there. Nice. Um so we started seeing started seeing some stuff. Um, I don't even remember how many buildings we saw, but only a handful.

Jason Wagner 1:19:28

Not many. Yeah, we just went to the good ones.

Hart Turner 1:19:30

Yeah. And we we we almost offered on that on the two unit plus garden. Yep. Um, and I didn't want to. I just didn't really like it. I just wasn't feeling it.

Jason Wagner 1:19:40

You know, it's a good thing you didn't, because that deal didn't work out.

Hart Turner 1:19:43

Yeah, I know.

Jason Wagner 1:19:43

Because I there was a weird You went under contract and it felt on a contract with another client of mine. Yep. It was a one of the rare situations where I had two clients going after the same building. Yeah. And I was like, oh yeah, you know, I gotta disclose this. And like, you know, I'm kind of hoping one of them like kind of pay.

Hart Turner 1:20:01

Yeah.

Jason Wagner 1:20:03

And um, we went on a contract with the other client, and it didn't, it didn't even close. It fell through, yeah. Because of a wild situation with the seller and one of the tenants. Yeah. Um, and now he's evicting his uh his cousin or whatever it was, who was one of the tenants. Um, so anyways, yeah. So I'm glad. I'm glad you you shifted.

Hart Turner 1:20:22

Yeah, it you know, I remember very, very clearly we were on Zoom. Um, you, me, and my partner at the time, and we were underwriting that building and figuring out the numbers on that building, figure out what we would offer on that building. And then partner dropped off. You and I were still on the call, still working through numbers. And we had been on the Zoom for like, you know, an hour and a half or two hours at that point, I think. Yeah. And then during that call, I get a ping on my email, like, oh, a new property hit the market. And I clicked a photo, and I'm like, oh my God, that's beautiful. Like, I want that. And I sent it to you right away. I was like, dude, look at this. And I sent it to you right away. And you're like, Oh, yeah, this looks great. Let's let's let's jump into the numbers on this one. Might as well. Yeah. And then we went straight into the numbers on that.

Jason Wagner 1:21:10

We're already an hour and a half deep. We might as well just keep going.

Hart Turner 1:21:12

For sure. And I remember saying, like, are you okay? Like, time-wise, and you're like, Yeah, yeah, no, this is a good one. Like, let's, let's, let's work on this. And we went through the numbers, and it didn't take us long at all to realize, like, oh yeah, this is a way better deal. Like, I remember you saying, like, this is way better. And I said, dude, let's get in there immediately, like ASAP. And so we did. You got it set up, and we went and saw it. And it was just a beautiful four-unit gray zone right off the park on the east side of the park. And it was just like, I just feel like that's what everybody wants. It's a house hack. You know, if you if you have if it's within your budget to get, you know, up to 1.2, 1.3, or whatever the loan limits like 1.5. If you have that, you know, ready to go, then everyone wants a four-unit graystone. You know, I feel like that's the pinnacle of what you can get. So we went and looked at it, you know, it was beautiful outside, as expected. And then we went in it. And I just remember being so I I remember the stairwell just felt so like sturdy and just felt like like just felt good, you know? Yeah. Because a lot of these buildings they don't. And it just felt like I'm there's keyless entry, you know.

Jason Wagner 1:22:20

Oh, dude, yeah. The you had bells and whistles on this one.

Hart Turner 1:22:23

Yeah. And I remember we, you know, we saw all the units but the owner's unit, and I was just like, hell yeah, like this is a beauty, but this is also gonna be competitive. Like a lot of people are gonna go after this because it's what everybody wants. Um, but yeah, I mean, we offered on it immediately. Um, and like I don't know how much you want to get into that, but I think we went against like five other offers. I at least, yeah. I think there was like six or seven, if I recall correctly.

Jason Wagner 1:22:53

It was a lot, yeah.

Hart Turner 1:22:55

Um, and we did escalation. And we ran the numbers, and at the end of the day, like there was just there was room on the purchase price.

Jason Wagner 1:23:03

Um it was escalation as is wave the appraisal.

Hart Turner 1:23:06

Mm-hmm.

Jason Wagner 1:23:07

Right.

Hart Turner 1:23:07

And we were willing to be aggressive on it because it it made sense. It's not like we were stretching it financially, you know, based on existing rents and based on what the potential rents would be. Um, I was like, this thing's gonna work in a lot of different scenarios. Um, so we can be we can afford to be a little aggressive on it. Um and then this was the first offer that on house hack number two. So when we started the new process for me, this was the first offer in that you know, process number two. And so I was expecting it to take a while because it did the first time. I mean, it took a long time. Nope, under contract. Like, here we go. And it happened fast. And I'm like, okay, wow. I I was so thrilled when you said that we were under contract because it was just such a beautiful building, you know. And I just thought, like, man, whoever gets this is gonna just have a really killer building in their portfolio. Um, so when we went, we went under contract, I was really excited. And then um, we had been talking to the same lender this whole time. I won't I won't mention him, but we had been talking to the same lender for the last four months or whatever it was. We were pre-approved with this guy. We had sent him all of our stuff, and and he said, Yeah, you guys are good. You're totally good. Like loan limits, like go for it. Can't remember.

Jason Wagner 1:24:29

Non-local, right? Non-local.

Hart Turner 1:24:30

No, local.

Jason Wagner 1:24:31

Oh, local.

Hart Turner 1:24:31

Local guy. Okay. Yeah. Given to me by the agent I worked with uh before you. Okay. The the guy who was kind of helping me out. Gotcha. Yeah. Um, and he we had been going to him and we were we had been trying to find a renovation loan, a um, like the five percent down with construction costs. Um, and he was like really, you know, bullish about that. And ultimately got under contract, so I messaged him and we had sent him the property when he said, Hey, just here it is. We're we're gonna offer on it. And he's like, Yeah, sweet, like give me posted, blah, blah, blah. We got under contract, and then he basically is like, Hey, um, need you guys to you know send me everything again. It's been it's been a you know what three months or whatever since you first sent it to me. So just needed updated stuff, blah blah blah. But we it needed to be a new portal, like brand new everything. Because I'm like, you already have our tax returns, you have our info, and he's like, No, no, no, we need it all new, like we're using a new system. And I was like, Okay, that's annoying, you know. So we had to start over, we have to send him everything, and then he texts me on the side, and we've been working with him for months. He texts me on the side, hey, you need a new partner. I can't, I can't get him approved. And I'm like, what are you talking about, dude? Like, what what do you mean? I first of all, what world is that simple? Like, oh hey, you gotta swap him out. Yeah, um, I just like the casualness of it. I was like, dude, what are you talking about? Um, and he's like, Yeah, underwritings doesn't like his his income situation, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, how are you telling me this right now? We are under contract, it's go time. Like, we had already sent you everything. How do you not know this already? It just felt so irresponsible. Like it, he really screwed us in that moment. And we had to scramble and pivot and start talking to other lenders right away. And I started to realize every lender was kind of telling me the same thing. You know, partner does amazing in LA, has been very successful with flips, but um, just the way his income is set up is you know, lenders don't like it, and they they're not into a comment, they can't loan conventional to him. Um, and so that all so all this stuff started falling on me. And I'm like, I'm not the capital partner here. Like, he's the capital partner. Like, don't look to me, you know, like that's why he's involved. Um, but anyway, it it started to get stressful because we were running, we had been under contract for a while now. They're waiting for our appraisal to get ordered. I'm trying to balance this relationship with my partner and thinking about like, God, when do I bail here? When do I have to kick him out essentially? Because I don't want to lose this property. Ultimately, I reach out to you know, partner number two, who uh was my college roommate, and you know, known him, known him forever. He he and I actually um I brought him into Eric Swanson's syndication deal in in Fort Wayne. So um he so we had already partnered technically on a deal uh that October before uh for syndication.

Jason Wagner 1:27:47

Do you guys own like an LLC together? And you were No, we just each have our own share.

Hart Turner 1:27:52

Yeah. Okay. Um I just brought him as another investor uh into that. Um and I use my self directed IRA for that. Nice. Yeah. So that's a whole other thing. But um but yeah, so he's just he's just he's just a game, game for anything investor. Um he's got a great paying W-2 job that he's had like straight since out of college.

Jason Wagner 1:28:15

Lendable.

Hart Turner 1:28:16

Yeah, very, very lendable. His wife, his wife is also um a W-2 uh accountant, CPA. Lendable does great as well. All right. They have a bunch of assets, and like he's you know, he's got all kinds of stuff that most people just don't even think of. Like he owns a, you know, um he's got ownership percentage in in a timber track. Like, you know, there's like uh FedEx routes and bread routes and Uts Potato Chip routes and stuff like that. Um do you know what I'm talking about? Where you can like own, you know, the the Fed the like the zone that that FedEx operates in, and it's like routes.

Jason Wagner 1:28:56

I did not know that was a thing. Yeah. Wow.

Hart Turner 1:28:58

Same with like, yeah, these bread, like bread routes are a big thing. If you go on biz by sell, like yeah, there's all kinds of routes that you can own. Wow. Um, so you have the exclusive like distribution, you own a business that that runs those bread trucks or the FedEx trucks or whatever within that zone. Got it. Um and anyway, so he owns like a timber, timber trucks, you know, like so and the nursing homes, all kinds of stuff. But he he had we had had breakfast like two years prior to that, and I told him what I was trying to do, and he was like, he was like, I'll do that. Like if you ever need investors, like I'll do that. So I called him up and I was like, dude, I I have this thing all set up. It's falling through, and like I need to find someone else, and you're my first call. And he's like, you know, give me the numbers, like talk to me about it. Like, what's what's what's the deal? Let me see it. Shared it with him, shared the numbers, shared the performer, shared everything. And he was like, Yeah, hell yeah, I'm in. Yeah. And I was like, oh my God, okay. But I said, I actually said, like, hey, I might need you. I might need you. But this might work out because we're still trying a bunch of stuff with with the first partner, trying to make it work. I really wanted to make it work. Like we had worked so hard up to that point, plus we were already partners. Um, and as it became more and more realistic that it was not gonna work, I I was telling partner number two, hey, it's looking more and more like I'm gonna need you. And he's like, Yeah, I want it. I'm ready. So eventually, when it happened, I had to kind of like have that tough call and just say, Hey man, I gotta, I gotta move on. I gotta order the appraisal, I gotta get my other guy going, uh, loan application, all that, get get the approval. Because I didn't even know for sure, there's no guarantee we're gonna get the approval with partner number two. You know, it could have fallen through again for unforeseen reasons that I couldn't have seen like I did with the first partner. So he applied, and of course, like everything looked great. And all of a sudden the numbers got even better because he's so lendable that our PITI went down, our you know, rate was better, everything was better. Maybe not the rate, but PITI for sure went went down. Um and yeah, just everything started to kind of fall into place. The numbers started getting even better. And we I remember we locked rate the day, the day after our Iran day number one. Oh, so it was like Iran happened, and then the next day we were like, can we can we still lock yesterday's numbers? Yeah. Um, and he was like, Yeah, I can. I was like, all right, lock. Yeah, like get it done. Perfect timing. Yeah, and then and then we watched it go up.

Jason Wagner 1:31:42

Would you would you lock in that again?

Hart Turner 1:31:44

So it was the equivalent of 612.

Jason Wagner 1:31:46

Yeah. Um phenomenal.

Hart Turner 1:31:49

It was the equivalent of that, but we actually got five eight because we buy down that. We used a buy down. Yeah, yeah. Um, but yeah, I mean, once once we got through the hard uh partner transition, then it was just kind of like, all right, like now we just figure this out. Like what what do we do here? Like, how do we figure out credits? How do we figure out you know our price, everything? Um and then figure out the numbers, kind of like what could they be, our different loan options. Um, and like the credit situation when I learned a lot on that because we had to we had to separate it in a in a few ways, yeah, when it's so big.

Jason Wagner 1:32:32

Um yeah, you didn't we haven't even touched on like why we got such a big credit. So essentially, long story short, we were able to get 50,000. This is the biggest credit that I've ever had for anybody of the you know number of deals that we've done. I've never had a $50,000 credit. So props to you for that trophy. That's incredible. I wanted to make sure it was a memorable transaction for you. That's very memorable. And uh, you know, very tough negotiation

Winning A 50K Credit Negotiation

Jason Wagner 1:33:00

too. Yeah, I can imagine. Yeah, you know, because they have backup offers. Yeah. And for some reason, for some reason, they were they were willing to do it. We actually kind of had like we we had a good we had a good feel on it. You kind of knew something. We knew some history. We knew yeah, yeah. We uh we basically kind of knew our position. Yeah. And uh, and when you have the leverage like that, um, you know, sometimes it works out and it worked out for you guys. And then I just remember calling you when they told me that they were gonna accept they were gonna give you the fifty thousand dollar credit. I'm like screaming on the phone, yeah, let's go. I'm just so jacked for you in this deal. And then you're like, Yeah, we got a problem. And that's when you told me that you had a partner problem. Right. And I'm like, Hart, are you freaking kidding me? That's like it's like fumbling on the one-yard line. Sure, yeah. You know, I'm like, I'm like, please, can we figure this out? Um, and sure enough, man, you came through.

Hart Turner 1:34:01

I gotta imagine for you, you were probably yeah, very I I was not nervous. I was a little, but I I knew number two was gonna come through fine. He was super into it, and I I knew he was gonna be great on paper. Like, so I it it was really just like the the way it was handled coming off. It was hard. It was a very uh awkward thing to go through that, you know, with with my partner number one. Yeah. Um is a pride thing, it's it's it's probably embarrassing.

Jason Wagner 1:34:33

I'm sure he felt, you know, in it just like I bet you he doesn't feel that embarrassed because you know what that like and that's the nature of it. Yeah, it's it's the it's the bullshit part of like if you didn't have these underlining like guidelines and like you weren't so stringent on like you know the PLs and things like that, like I feel comfortable as a business owner being able to do this deal, and for some reason a lender says I'm not, right? Right so you know, he should he shouldn't feel bad about that whatsoever. No, he shouldn't. Yeah, it's it's all about you you at least gotta try because there's so many people, so many people that just assume I'm not gonna qualify, uh, it's not something for me. I I I literally I can't do it. I can't qualify for that over a million dollar building. It it's just it's way too much. I can't even like possibly think about it.

Hart Turner 1:35:19

Yeah.

Jason Wagner 1:35:19

But then you're like, oh wait, well, if the rents are as high as they are, yeah, and still my only monthly obligation is like where I wanted it to be. Oh shit, I could. I could qualify for that million dollar building. And that's exactly what you did.

Hart Turner 1:35:34

Right. So yeah. Yeah, it just it was just we we didn't know how we hadn't been in that position yet. He hadn't gone through that process, I hadn't gone through that process. So we just didn't, we didn't know what we didn't know once again, you know, and then we we learned, and I think he learned some things of like, oh, I gotta structure things differently, you know, moving forward on how I run my flip business and how I report my income and how this and how the government looks at it and everything like that, so that I don't, you know, run into issues like this in the future. Because the the money's in the bank, you know, he's he's got it. It's just the way it's in there doesn't lenders don't like. Um but yeah, I can imagine you were probably like, oh my no, you know, like because I'm sure you probably thought, man, this thing's gonna fall apart. Like uh and I'm sure a lot of the times it it does, you know.

Jason Wagner 1:36:22

Yeah, but yeah, if you if you have a qualifying problem, yeah.

Hart Turner 1:36:25

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jason Wagner 1:36:26

It it yeah, and then we were it's harder for the it's hard to do. We were scrambling too because yeah, you know, the sellers they are very emotionally drawn out on these processes and like you know, really hard negotiation. They're just like, all right, fine, let's just do it so we can close the deal. Sure. Then all of a sudden there's a hang up that they didn't know about, and like, yeah. So it's it's a it's a bigger piece to a seller, bigger blow.

Hart Turner 1:36:48

I yeah, I can imagine. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and we were scrambling there at the end, trying to like, you know, handle it properly, make the the seller aware properly, you know, like you know, some extensions and stuff like that, which which all worked out fine.

Jason Wagner 1:37:05

You just tell you just say it's fine. We just need a little bit extra time.

Hart Turner 1:37:08

Yeah, and it was like you know, we it was never like it never really got into jeopardy. Like we we were we were fine. We just had to like you know make it make it work there at the end, which which fortunately we were able to do. Um and then, you know, and then we we got it done.

Jason Wagner 1:37:25

Yeah.

Hart Turner 1:37:25

And it was congrats. It was pretty sweet at the end of the day. I mean, I was I I love that building for sure. I had to move like two weeks later, um, because I was trying to figure out what unit it was gonna it was gonna be, and just the way it worked out, existing tenants that I inherited, it just worked out like it had to be had to be, you know, unit number two. And

Real House Hacking Numbers Today

Hart Turner 1:37:50

in order for that to make sense, I had to get in there like ASAP. Um, and I wanted to get my unit and building number one rented uh sooner rather than later. So I just had to like just I just had to move. It was a crazy time. Plus, I had like four units turning over. I had two new tenants to find, and I had like two tenants that were turning over. It was just uh I was screening, I was doing leases, I was doing showings, I had just acquired a new building. It was a crazy time for sure. Yeah, um, and it felt really good to like get through that that 60 day period.

Jason Wagner 1:38:23

Um and it did it rent the way that you thought it was gonna rent?

Hart Turner 1:38:27

Absolutely, yeah. Yeah, yeah, for sure.

Jason Wagner 1:38:29

What did we what did we estimate the rent was gonna be?

Hart Turner 1:38:32

Um, I don't remember exactly.

Jason Wagner 1:38:34

Or what'd you end up getting?

Hart Turner 1:38:35

Um I got 2,500, 2,500 for you for a first floor, yeah, with a 150 for parking, which is kind of my set number. Um and there was a lot of interest. Like I had a bunch of people come for showings. I had a I had several people that wanted it. Um tons of leads, you know, that came through on it. Um and and it was funny because I some of those leads I ended up kind of like rolling into the other building. I was like, hey, you know, based on what they wanted, what they were looking for, I was like, I don't know if this is the right one, but this one might work for you guys well. Um because I was filling a different, I was filling two other units. I was filling ever my Evergreen as well, around the same, roughly the same timeline. And then also the the second property as well. So it was funny because I would have multiple people reach out and I'd be like, Oh, I recognize that name because they inquired about this one too, because they were the same price. Yeah. Um, same rate. So yeah, super happy with with that. I don't think it's like I didn't push it too hard. I think it's a really fair uh rate for that unit. Um and then I still have inherited tenants on the top floor and the garden. Um so kind of waiting to find out like what we're what we're gonna do there. Um but I mean the so for Evergreen, just numbers-wise, I think it's important to know because people always ask me, always ask me, oh, you're house hacking. So do your your tenants cover your your more they cover your rent, like you live for free? And I'm like, no, no, no, no, this is not 2021. Like, yeah, no way. Uh, I think it's very realistic for someone who's looking to get into house hacking right now, that you're you're probably gonna pay the I would just imagine you're gonna pay the equivalent of what you would pay for rent if you had a place downtown. Like, I think if you're gonna get a building like this, like a million-dollar building, $1.2 million building, uh, unless you're getting phenomenal rents on the other units, you're gonna pay around what you would pay for a an apartment for yourself. So when I lived at Evergreen, I paid around $2,600 or so uh per month for my the difference between my rental income and my PITI. Um But at the third building, that's by the time by the time I turn over tenants, um that could go down as much as like a thousand dollars. Like I could theoretically get down. Oh, so right now I'm at like 23 um on house hack number three. Nice. And like, you know, when you were talking to Tom and Mark about it, like that's I think that's very realistic for house hacking right now. Like if you're gonna live in an area like that, yes, if you're gonna live farther out, if you're gonna get go farther south or west or northwest, those numbers can get better for sure. But if you're gonna be close to downtown, if you're gonna be in an area like West Town or Humboldt or you know, Bucktown or something like that, like you're gonna be paying something to live there because it's probably not gonna get covered. Um just because of the the rate, like you know, at a at a six, five, you know, six nine nine, anywhere in the sixes or the sevens, like you're that's what you're gonna expect to pay. But if you can move out and then you can get more than that in any increment, you know, as long as you're good on reserves and you understand your numbers and you're like, okay, I've got like Evergreen is gonna make like 200 bucks a month. Like that's about it for year two. It's positive, it's a killer asset, and um, and it cash flows a little bit. Yeah, but I also pay almost six hundred and fifty dollars in PI in um private mortgage insurance PMI 650. So when I get to 20% equity and I can drop that 650, boom, it's gonna get really good quite fast. And if I can refinance, obviously, because I have a seven or a seven percent rate on that one, yep. If I can refinance that at some point, then it's gonna get even better. I just gotta like get there. Yep. You know? Um, and I feel comfortable. I I don't love the margin at 200 bucks, like because if something happens, it's basically out of pocket because I don't have enough to be doing reserves, vacancy, capex, like there's no way I would be negative several hundred dollars a month if I were to be putting that aside. But at the next at building number three, by the time I move out, I we probably will have enough cash flow in that building. We we expect to be somewhere around a thousand cash flow.

Jason Wagner 1:43:15

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that we budgeted for vacancy repairs. I think you brought your impact's a little bit lower because the building was a lot of it was newer. Yeah. Um, and it's that's kind of some of the benefit of buying turnkey. Yeah.

Hart Turner 1:43:30

Yeah, for sure.

Jason Wagner 1:43:31

But yeah, yeah, I remember we we budgeted for that stuff because I was I was like, I don't usually not budget for that stuff.

Hart Turner 1:43:36

Yeah. Um yeah, I will say like I I did not budget for that stuff on my first house act. Yeah. And I but I but I was aware of what it would be. Yeah. And I, you know, made a conscious decision to like say, okay, I I'm not gonna have that, but I will in time, and I can cover until then. Yeah, you know, and everything's new. Like furnaces are all new, condensers are all new, appliances are all new. Like, yeah, chances are I'm not gonna be having a you know ten thousand dollar boiler go out because like it doesn't exist. Yeah. So I felt I felt, you know, okay with that. But the number it just goes to show the numbers are even better on the third property, even though we paid high, you know, we went over ask a good amount, but I just knew that the the numbers were gonna be strong. So it was I felt like it was worth it.

Jason Wagner 1:44:32

Yeah. And how in that like uh you know, think about it full circle. Um, you went against seven other offers. We it's not like we paid the asking price, we paid above asking price.

Hart Turner 1:44:41

Yeah.

Jason Wagner 1:44:42

And you're telling me that you bought something on the MLS that is actually likely going to be one of your best ones that you bought. And it was a multiple bid situation. And boom. And you know, it's like deals are out there, and sometimes you just gotta be ready to pounce.

Hart Turner 1:44:58

For sure.

Jason Wagner 1:44:59

And we were looking at one, and then you're like literally in the middle of analyzing, make a decision on one, you're like, let's look at this one. Yeah, we ran the numbers really fast. We acted on it, boom. I mean, that's how that's it's how it's done. Yeah, and so you did it perfectly. Yeah, it was like you were a pro, you know, and uh uh I'm happy for you, man.

Hart Turner 1:45:20

So thank you. Important to note that building number three, I I basically put no money in. I got a capital partner. They felt that getting into that building at five percent through me and through the loan that I can bring to the table as an owner occupant is a great value for them as an investor. So so I didn't

Partnerships, Meetups, And Scaling Fast

Hart Turner 1:45:45

put any money into that deal.

Jason Wagner 1:45:46

Yeah, how much of what's the equity that you own?

Hart Turner 1:45:49

Uh the five percent.

Jason Wagner 1:45:51

No, of the deal. Is you own the property 50-50?

Hart Turner 1:45:53

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jason Wagner 1:45:54

Wow, amazing. I mean, that's a that's a win-win situation for everybody in the hundred percent.

Hart Turner 1:46:00

Wow. He's he's stoked about it. Wow, because I mean, if he wanted to buy that building at one point two, you know he would need 25% down. Yeah, he's gonna put 300 something thousand down or whatever. Yeah, um, so for him to do it at 60, yeah, is like, yeah, here, take a check, you know? Yeah, um, and he he loves it. And for me, it's a it's powerful. I mean, all I did was move into the thing, and I own half of a $1.2 million building. Massive. Like, it's incredibly powerful. So that that would be my number one tip for if I was talking to someone who's in their you know, 20s or something like that, and they're like, hey man, I want to get into real estate, I want to build some equity and stuff, I don't know, you know, how to do that. I would say, go learn to be an operator, go to meetups, meet people, learn how this thing works. Because when I moved into my first building, I did not, I was learning as I went. You know, I didn't have any particular knowledge of how to run a multifamily building, how to be a landlord. Like zero. I just I've just been figuring it out as I have gone over the last 18 months. But if you can, if you can propose to an investor, hey, I can get us five percent down, I can physically move into that property to satisfy that requirement, and I'll run it. I'll, you know, you don't have to do any of that, I'll run it. Um you might be able to get yourself into a position like I'm in right now. And that's amazing, dude. If you can't run it, then you can still bring a ton of value with your 5% and your ability to move in, but maybe you get 25% and then and then your investor is a part of the property management with you, or you know, there's a maybe another partner that runs or something like that.

Jason Wagner 1:47:44

But now, did you guys square up with an operating agreement for your not yet, but we're going to guess we're gonna we're gonna get the Laura to draw that stuff up.

Hart Turner 1:47:53

Um but we we talked about everything, talked about timeline, exit strategy, you know, all that kind of stuff. So we will do that. Um and like what would you say is like uh um we did on unit two, or on building two.

Jason Wagner 1:48:07

Oh, good. Yeah. What would you say is like because most most people are they write off partnerships and they're just uh I can't go there, you know. Uh I can't trust people and like you know, I can only trust myself. Um like what what made you get over that mindset? Um because I'm sure you thought about it.

Hart Turner 1:48:24

I mean, uh everyone that generally I've talked to for the most part talks about you need partners to scale. Like you just can't do it on your own unless you just have a very unique income situation and you just have a ton of money and you you know, like you're gonna need partnerships. Um and for me, I just I will say that the two people I've partnered with I've known for a long time. Yeah, like I know that really well. I mean, we're talking college roommate, you know.

Jason Wagner 1:48:56

Yeah, there's huge value in that.

Hart Turner 1:48:58

Yeah. And I and I see what they do in their own life. I see, you know, the investments that they're in, and I, you know, have talked money with them for a long time. So I just I know that it would be a totally different thing if it was like someone I met at the convention and they wanted to partner, and you know, I really don't know that much about them. That would be a whole different thing, which people do, you know. I mean, like once you're in this multifamily world, um investment world, people are like, oh, we should partner on a deal, we should JV a deal together, you know. So, you know, I think you at that point you have to it's easy to throw around, but then when it comes down to it, it's like you gotta be careful.

Jason Wagner 1:49:37

Absolutely. And you do, and you do careful, you gotta court them. Absolutely. Yeah, well, you well, you said your one partner is married, right? Uh both. Both are married. Okay. Yeah. Because as it comes down to it, like when you actually think about what happens if your partner, yeah, something terrible happens, and your partner can no longer perform and it falls onto the Spouse. Yeah. Right. So then what do you do? And I think that is that's a real situation that we sometimes need to like need to think about and we need to plan for.

Hart Turner 1:50:12

Yeah.

Jason Wagner 1:50:12

Um Rachel and I actually just went through this planning. Honestly, first off, I love all our partners. All our partners are great. They're wonderful people. They're wonderful people. But at the same time, it's like, well, if one of these situations happens, you know, we went into business with that person. And then, you know, you throw in another family member that we don't, you know, we don't really have the same mindset. Or like, I don't know. There's just it's a whole new dynamic. Absolutely. Yeah. And then so how do you like work out that?

Hart Turner 1:50:41

Right.

Jason Wagner 1:50:42

Because that's that situation could eventually come.

Hart Turner 1:50:45

Yeah. I think when it comes to your original question about like what you know, what keeps me from overthinking that or not moving forward because of this or that. I think like you just gotta you just gotta move forward and cross bridges as they come. You know? But it's better than you know, people people talk to me, you know, I oftentimes say, like, I I will probably leave Chicago at some point. Like I I don't think I'll be here long term. I think I'll probably move to the south at some point, or you know, I'm always tempted to move to Austin. Like I love Austin. But people say, like, well, why do you why are you buying in Chicago then? Like, why are you buying? I'm like, because what you know, at least I'm doing something now. Like I've, you know, I'm not gonna not do it because of a potential thing in the future. Like, let's just keep taking action today. We'll cross that bridge when it comes down the line. Um, but I'm not gonna like wait a couple of years to see where I end up living and let a couple years go by. Like, let's just be doing stuff in that time and then we'll we'll figure it out then. I I would say my approach with partners is generally the same. Um and the fact is I couldn't have bought building number two and three without the partners. Yeah, I couldn't have. I did not have that money. I had enough money for like one building, like my first building. And once I deployed those funds, that was kind of that was kind of it. And I freaking love that that building's just mine. You know what I mean? It's all mine. It's like I love that. But you know, if I only if I worked alone, I would have one building. But yes, with partners, I have three buildings. Yes. So, you know, and I I like I I'm gonna do this every year. Like I there's no reason not to. I've got a little bit of time. Um who knows how much time I'll have before I, you know, if I eventually get married and you know, have those things, and it's not something where I can just pop around every year. Um, but while I'm currently independent in that way, and I can move tomorrow if I if I needed to, then I absolutely plan to buy a button. And now that I've been doing it, there's like multiple people who are like, hey, I'll do that in the future if you need somebody. Hey, heart, hey, I'll I'll help you out. Amazing. There you go. There you go. I'll put you on, I'll put you on the list. Put me on the list. Yeah, but there's like multiple people that want to do it, and they're like, I'll give you that 5%. Like it's it's amazing to see. So there's no reason not to do it in a year. And you know, partner number two is already like, dude, don't you dare use anybody else. Like, I'm already signed up for you know, years two and three. Like, yeah, I'm ready to go. That's great. So just knowing that that's possible for every second building I buy, it's like another building just for me. Yep. You know, because it's 50, 100, 50, 100. So it's incredible. And like, you know, the fact that this has only been 18 months is wild. And it just goes to show like what's possible, and you really like batten down the hatches, focus, put yourself out there. Meetups are everything. Like, I just want to say that like meetups are everything. I really don't think you can do this without going to meetups because it leads to so many relationships, it leads to this. Um, you know, my first ever meetup in Chicago, I met Tom, and I was just kind of like, all right, well, here we go. Like, I met like the the godfather already, you know. And like, you know, it's just like, but then you meet investors, and then investors give you referrals for who to call when you need this electrician, plumber, HVAC, whatever it is, you know, who's your cabinet guy, who's your this guy. Um, and when you go to these meetups, just even if you have like a hard time approaching people or talking to people, just just go and be social for you know, two hours of your life. Like just talk to people, walk up to people and say, Hey, where do you guys invest? Like, that's all you need to say. Everyone's there to talk about real estate. But I couldn't do it without meetups. Meetups have just been amazing. And and meeting investors that are a little ahead of me, that are willing to give me advice, and I can text them and say, Hey, I'm running into this situation. Um, like Eric Swanson has been so helpful, so huge for me. Great dude. Literally walked me through like how to how to create my first couple leases, like, and had me send them and proofread them and say, Hey, I would add this and do this, and like just people taking the time to help out new investors, but you gotta go meet those people. Yeah. Without those people, you're you're gonna be it's it's hard to do it on your own.

Jason Wagner 1:55:26

I was gonna say, you posted a video one time of like, hey, how do people do all of these signatures on the leases and you gotta put the box in on each like sign page? Yeah. Did you ever figure out a solution? I figured out a slightly better solution. All right. So we use dot loop. Okay. Dot loop already has those boxes in there. Yeah. And so it's you don't have to put the signature thing. It's okay. So it's just auto-populates. Okay. So you just put the person and then that 18-page lease, 20-page lease now for the Chicago one that it keeps growing. Yep. Now has all the signature lines. So anyways, that's that's what we use.

Hart Turner 1:56:02

Yeah, you'll have to show me that next time around. Yeah. Next time when I drop my next lease. Yeah. Yeah.

Jason Wagner 1:56:08

But I remember watching that video that you posted. He posted a video that was just like, dude, how do if this I only have like one unit that I'm leasing, or there's like two, and I'm like, I gotta put a signature line on every single one of these. Yeah. Yeah. He's like, how do people do this with print date?

Hart Turner 1:56:26

Yeah. Signature, click, click it, print, click, date, click. And then I have to do that multiple times, and I have to do 18 initial fields and go do them. Yeah.

Jason Wagner 1:56:36

Yeah, that's a pain in the ass.

Hart Turner 1:56:37

Yeah. Well, like, I, you know, you know there's a better way. You just don't know what it is. Yeah. But social media for that is great because you can crowdsource information and be like, hey, uh, how do I do this better? How do I do this faster? Yeah. And you can put it out there.

Jason Wagner 1:56:51

Yeah. All right, man. Well, this was uh this was a great show, man. This is awesome. All on heart. This was I could talk to you guys for legit evently three days straight. Like we well, yeah, that's that's the great part about this. Is like we just we go as long as like we feel is necessary and like to get the full story, to get the full picture. And like, you know, we've got some episodes that are three hours. We like Joe Rogan style, you know. It's just like it's it's fun when you're not on a time crunch.

Hart Turner 1:57:21

Yeah.

Jason Wagner 1:57:21

And like, oh I get I just got like that's not how it is with Mark and Tom. So just so you know, when you go on there, you've got to be way more consolidated. Yeah, because Tom's gonna go. Tom's gonna go. All right, all right, and then you're gonna move on. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. So so yeah, so yeah, trim it up, trim it up a little bit. But no, this was perfect. This was perfect, man. We loved it. Um, all right. So we we wrap this up with um what's the biggest takeaway from the conversation? And I always go to Rachel first on what the biggest take.

Rachel Wagner 1:57:52

That's right. I'm always ready. Yeah. Um Yeah, I mean, I think one of the things that you kept saying at the very beginning of the episode is you just kept feeling like you were behind. You're like, I just feel like I'm behind everybody. You know, you spent all this time chasing your dream, which I don't think you would trade that for anything. It was very valuable time. But you get to this next point and you're like, I'm just

Takeaways, Where To Find Hart

Rachel Wagner 1:58:10

behind the game, behind the game, behind the game. It took you a year to get your first property. It's like it just was really hard to get started. But you're now only 18 months in and you've got three properties and you're doing it. So I think what I'm just want to point out to everybody is like, just get started. Yeah. Just get started, and then it's just gonna keep going. Yeah, snowball for it. Because I mean, you're not really behind now.

Hart Turner 1:58:32

Correct. Yeah.

Rachel Wagner 1:58:33

You've more than caught up compared to your average person.

Hart Turner 1:58:36

So absolutely.

Rachel Wagner 1:58:37

Yeah.

Hart Turner 1:58:37

I take a lot of pride in that for sure, because you're absolutely you're you're absolutely right. Yeah. It is amazing how you can go from feeling one way to the the opposite of that. Yeah. Quite quickly.

Rachel Wagner 1:58:48

Yeah. And I think even you were pointing out like Jason's slide that kind of stuck with you about like the network or whatever. He likes to point that out to people all the time. Is it's like you can change your life in five years or less, right? Like just huge, huge changes.

Jason Wagner 1:59:00

Yeah. Yeah. Most people don't like talk about that stuff. Um, I feel like in our space, it's a little bit more accepted. Yeah. Because you share because you care. Yeah, it's like you want the the best part about real estate circles is that most people are incredibly nice and they are forthcoming with information. They are not hiding trade secrets. Yeah. There is not competition. Even though there's like wickedly low inventory right now, uh, people are still willing to help. Yeah. Which I wonder at some point, because of how scarce uh the inventory is, if that will ever change. I don't think so, because it's it's a culture. It's like it's a real estate culture to just share. This is how I did it. Here's all the mistakes I made. And I hope that it helps you avoid a mistake. And maybe you'll get lucky, and maybe that net worth goes from a five-year period for us and it's it's a three-year period for you. Or maybe it ends up being a 10-year period. I mean, everybody has their own different pace. Um, but it's the it's the point of sharing. So, but the the thing that I picked up from this conversation was that there's two, there's twofold. One, you're the type of person that is you get locked in on something, you're like, dude, I can learn this in the next like year and a half. You did that with the you did that with the Iron Man stuff. Um, you did with something else. Um pickleball. Pickleball, yes. Did with pickleball. And like now you compete and win tournaments, and like you're like uh you're like ridiculous. You're like a Roger Federer of uh bad, but thank you. I'll take it. I've just seen some highlights, so it's uh so it's like it doesn't take that much time. Yeah it just takes focus.

Hart Turner 2:00:43

Yeah.

Jason Wagner 2:00:44

And you're your prime example of just like dude, just just focus, focus for the next year and a half. We haven't even talked about how you don't drink alcohol, right? You've kind of cut that out. You used to be a smoker, yep, and then you've you went on this big spurt of not drinking. And it's just like you're very fascinating because you once you put your mind to something, not many people are like this. Yeah, but once you put your mind to something, you've like you fully commit. And then all of a sudden, you know, the days add up, and you're like, Well, look at where I am now.

Hart Turner 2:01:14

Yeah.

Jason Wagner 2:01:15

Surely and then the second piece was the partnerships. And that I think that's that's freaking gold, man, because um this is a real uh real estate is a team sport. Yeah. Um as much as you want to be uh in your shell with it and you want it to just be yours, um, that's great. Take down, you know, one, maybe two that way. At the end of the day, you're gonna run out of money, you're gonna the opportunities are gonna get bigger, and you're just you're literally not gonna have the funds to do that. And you either stay in place, continue to go after the same types of smaller buildings. It takes you a number of years to kind of get the next one, or you just find great people who think alike, and maybe you've known them for a long time, and maybe they've been seeing your content about well, look at what's done for me. And now now all of a sudden that encourages somebody to reach out to you to be like, dude, I kind of want to do that. And so, anyways, I appreciate you and everything that you've done. Um what is for you? What's the big takeaway? I know it's like oh I just shared my whole entire story, but like after you've now shared it, what's the big takeaway from this conversation?

Hart Turner 2:02:24

Oof man. Um I don't know. Uh I think that just to to your point, Rachel, I think that at the end of the day, when I look, when I look back on what I've been able to accomplish the last 18 months, like I'm very proud of myself. It's it was it has not been easy. Is it is hard. It's it's stressful. Um, especially as a beginner, there's just a lot of big decisions you have to make and you have to commit to and just be like, I'm just I'm just I'm gonna commit to this and we'll see how that goes. And I think that um, you know, I I just like to tell anyone that's starting, like it it is hard and it should be hard because this this provides a ton of upside in the long run. And you know, um when I saw Cody Sanchez have the keynotes, uh the keynote speech at Bigger Pockets in 2024, she said she said some quote about like your bank account is a direct reflection of the size of the problems you can solve and or something to that effect. And I remember thinking like these are big problems we're solving, $1.2 million project, you know, problems like that need you know, decisions to be made. And like there's a weight to that. So anyway, it's you know, um, I yeah, I think that's the biggest thing is that I've just when I look back and I look uh at where I am, every once in a while you'll see on Instagram like average. I just saw it the other day, like you're in the point top one percent of you know people if from 40 to 49, if you have this net worth or this assets or whatever. And I definitely real estate has provided a a vehicle for an uh you know, an average guy that was an artist for a long time and does not have any particular finance background or um, you know, high-level education. I mean, I won't went to college for two years, but real estate can build wealth, like and it's you know, it's relatively simple when you break it all down. Um so I am definitely just yeah, I'm I'm proud of myself for what I've been able to accomplish in the last 18 months. And I love that I've sort of done the proof of concept now to for myself. I'm like, okay, we you can do this. Like now you've done it for a while, and now you know you can do it, and you know you can do it more. And with growth will come more problems and you know, more solutions that need to be discovered, but it's it's very doable, and Chicago's a great place to do it. And there's you know, the two to four unit multifamily inventory here just as a whole is in incredible, yes, um, compared to you know the rest of the country and and major cities around the country. I mean, I was in Austin, I was looking around, there's like none of this, you know, and duplexes are like 1.3 million or whatever. So the the amount of options we have here is just incredible for two to four unit multifamily. So um, yeah, I don't know. My takeaway is I'm just I'm enjoying this ride. It's been it's been awesome and continuing.

Jason Wagner 2:05:34

Cool, dude. Well, we appreciate you taking the time.

Hart Turner 2:05:37

Yeah. Coming to thank you. Thank you for having me in your in your home and inviting me. It's my first ever podcast in your first spot. In the spot, it looks awesome, by the way. Studio space.

Jason Wagner 2:05:47

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It looks it looks like the end of the house. We're we're gonna we're gonna nail it down. Yeah, yeah.

Hart Turner 2:05:52

I was fully prepared to be in the living room, you know. Or sorry, in the uh dining room. Yeah, I love that you prepared.

Jason Wagner 2:05:58

And then we threw a curveball at you.

Rachel Wagner 2:05:59

Yeah, nice picture.

Jason Wagner 2:06:00

Just like uh just like every real estate deal, it's got a curveball. So you had to keep you on your toes. Yeah, it looks it looks great. Love it, man. All right. Well, Hart, um, I guess we didn't ask you how can people get in touch with you if they wanted to reach out?

Hart Turner 2:06:12

Yeah, social is the best. So face or um not Facebook, I don't use Facebook much, but Instagram and TikTok at Hart Turner. First and last name. H-A-R-T-T-U-R-N-E R. Sweet. I post a lot more like apartment stuff on TikTok, but I really want to start doing more investor stuff. Um and plan to do that. Same with Instagram, because you know, there's a there's a whole, you know, you could do a lot with that, and I don't I don't think I do it enough. So I want to start doing more of that. Awesome, man. But yeah, feel free to reach out. Cool. Especially if you're newer to the game, because I just think it's so fun to I'm still relatively new, so it's that much more fun to speak to people who are me 18 months ago um and are thinking about getting into it or just getting into it. Yeah, awesome.

Jason Wagner 2:06:57

Yeah. Um, all right. Well, uh, thank you for listening to the show. Um if you found any value in the show, please share it. We're trying to grow our name. This is uh this is the next season of uh the real life investing podcast. And so uh we're gonna bring a lot more of this. We got some really great guests that are actually kept coming. Um, we got more real estate content and uh and more real life stuff. So uh please share the show and we'll catch you on the next episode. Awesome.