Creating Those Convenient Apps

From Apple to Android, on this episode of the Tech Times podcast we chat with Mobile App Development instructor Jeff Mason about how to he prepares students for careers. 

Transcript

Announcer: From Tulsa Tech, helping you make your own path with insights and information about the world of career training, the Tech Times Podcast starts right now. 

Ryan Williams (Host): Hey everyone, welcome to the Tech Times podcast. I'm your host, Ryan Williams. Every February we get to celebrate Career Tech Education Month. Search hashtag CTE month to see a lot of cool things highlighted across your favorite social media platforms all month long.

Ryan Williams (Host): Again, hashtag CTE month. Okay, we are excited to kick off the month talking about a program that trains people to create things that all of us use every day. Today we're talking mobile app development and here to give us all the details as instructor. Jeff Mason, welcome to the podcast. 

Jeff Mason: Thank you. It's good to be here.

Ryan Williams (Host): So, before we get into the details of the program, can you help our listeners understand the steps it takes, maybe briefly to get an app from an idea to that convenient tile on your smartphone? 

Jeff Mason: Okay. Briefly. 

Ryan Williams (Host): Yeah, briefly. That's gonna, I, I know there's a lot of steps in there. 

Jeff Mason: Okay. Here's, here's my process.

Jeff Mason: I have the idea, I designed it, I have the idea for the design, I make the layout, and then I go, oh, I'm not gonna make it do something. So then add the code, make it do something, and then once it's done, I can put it on the app store, put it, put it on Google Play, and it's out there for the world to see.

Ryan Williams (Host): Okay. So the hard work is mostly the coding or the 

Jeff Mason: coding part? Yes, yes. 

Ryan Williams (Host): Really? Okay. Are you saying the design and all the other parts of it are easier? 

Jeff Mason: It depends on the person. If you're creative, design is pretty easy. If you're technical, the coding side's easy. We're kind of in the middle.

Jeff Mason: We're kind of on the creative side of everything. We're also on the technical side. So 

Ryan Williams (Host): blend the best of both worlds. 

Jeff Mason: Yeah. So I'm more like a creative designer. I'm like, I wanna make it look really good. And then I have students who want to make things work and then afterward, oh, I need, it needs to look better.

Jeff Mason: So it just depends on it's little give and personality. 

Ryan Williams (Host): Right. Yeah. That's great. Well, let's talk a little bit about the program. This is a nine month, half day high school and adult program. What are some of the skills students will leave with? 

Jeff Mason: One of the biggest things I want them to leave with is to be self-sufficient coders.

Jeff Mason: This field changes so fast that there's something I could be teaching them today that no longer works six months from now. So 

Ryan Williams (Host): that quickly. 

Jeff Mason: Yeah. 

Ryan Williams (Host): Wow. 

Jeff Mason: Yeah. I actually, every six months, I'm six months on Apple and six months on Android. So every December I'll go through and rebuild almost every Android project because there was some huge update to where my projects last year may no longer work.

Jeff Mason: And sometimes those changes happen in the middle of the semester, so the students might have to help me figure out how to make things work. But yeah, the technology is, is changing so fast, so rapidly, is that I want them to be comfortable with digging for information, figuring out problems on their own, and being self-sufficient when it comes to building apps because, well, because it does change so fast, they need to be able to figure the things out on their own.

Ryan Williams (Host): So what sort of certifications can students earn? I mean, if they're. Earning certifications and then six months out, things change. How does that help them in their employment? 

Jeff Mason: Well, the certification shows that they're proficient in a programming language, which is true. They can still work the language.

Jeff Mason: There may be pieces of that language that change, but they understand how the language works. They can understand how the changes, how the changes have. 

Ryan Williams (Host): What tools or technologies do students get hands-on experience with that's in the program? 

Jeff Mason: In the fall we use Xcode. That's the Apple, that's the Apple development.

Jeff Mason: And we use a language called Swift. In the spring we switched over to Android Studio and they use a language called Kotlin. And we also use tools, of course, we use, , I use Nearpod, of course, Blackboard, that's our LMS and this week I'm introducing them to. Magic school AI system because magic school is FERPA compliant.

Jeff Mason: A lot of ais aren't. So magic school is FERPA compliant. So I've been interested in that, that to them this week. 'cause I'm trying to introduce them to, use correct prompts. 

Ryan Williams (Host): Hmm. 

Jeff Mason: I'll see things like. Let's say there's an error in their code. I'll see them copy the code, put an AI and say, what up question mark.

Jeff Mason: It's like, well, that's not really a good prompt. 

Ryan Williams (Host): It's not 

Jeff Mason: saying something like, this is the error message. Copy paste. Here is the code, copy and paste. What, what issues do you see? Or just some kind of prompt that other than what up, or I've even had saw someone just copy and paste and go, Nope. And it'll give them a bunch of like.

Jeff Mason: Things that they'll give 'em a list of things that could be wrong with it, but it may not answer their question. 

Ryan Williams (Host): Right. 

Jeff Mason: So 

Ryan Williams (Host): I've learned that AI can be really affirmative in terms of what you're after. So it'll be, it'll be really agreeable. 

Jeff Mason: Yes. 

Ryan Williams (Host): When it wants, when it wants, you're trying to look for something, maybe that's wrong.

Jeff Mason: Right. And we did an exercise on that too. I, I taught, I told 'em that AI wants to agree with you, so I said, gimme a prompt. And they said, how do you make a cheeseburger? So we put it in there, tell I make a cheeseburger. I said, what if I want my cheeseburger to taste like a shoe? I said, let's put that in there.

Jeff Mason: And it came up with ingredients to make your cheeseburger taste like a shoe. It was like, that is a really interesting flavor, sensation. Let's do this. I'm like, who in here wants to eat a shoe? Nobody. But AI wants to make you happy. 

Ryan Williams (Host): You , you mentioned earlier that, , the two main operating platforms on Apple and on Android, is there a big difference in how those are built?

Ryan Williams (Host): In terms of each of the apps that have to go into those, 

Jeff Mason: yes, the concepts are the same, but the approach is completely different. On Apple, you can do everything on one single file. On Android, everything's in a different place, so your words might be in one place. Your colors are different.

Jeff Mason: File your layouts on a third file, your code to make it works on a fourth file. So I find that. Students who like everything right in front of them, they do really good with do with apple's development. Students who like everything to be in a nice, neat spot do really good with Android. So the concepts are the same, the goals are the same, but the setup is completely different.

Ryan Williams (Host): Do you find that one is more, I guess, beneficial to the coder or it's just really. Up to each individual's personality. 

Jeff Mason: It's up to usually by the end of the semester about, it's about 50 50, 50. Prefer Apple 50 prefer Android. I do start with Apple first because it is easier to learn because it is all in front of you.

Ryan Williams (Host): Sure. 

Jeff Mason: And second semester we do Android because it is more difficult. 

Ryan Williams (Host): So we talked a little bit earlier, just mentioned briefly that you have both high school and adult students. How do you approach teaching when you have students with very different life and work experiences in the same room? 

Jeff Mason: I generally approach it as, I approach it as a beginner course.

Jeff Mason: , I mean, you're, you're right there. Students who have been coding since they were two years old, and they're students who 

Ryan Williams (Host): since two, 

Jeff Mason: I did have one. He, he claimed, I don't believe him, but he claimed two years old. And then you have adults or even students who don't even have computers at home. So it's all different levels of experience.

Jeff Mason: I approach it from the standpoint, no one's coded before. It's all brand new. But usually the students who already know how to code are here to learn another language. They may know how to build websites. They may know how to learn Python. But they may want to learn how to use this language now. 

Ryan Williams (Host): Oh, sure.

Jeff Mason: So generally, even at that standpoint, they're all beginners because , I don't believe I've had anyone come to class that had the two languages that I teach as a base knowledge. None of 'em had done that before. 

Ryan Williams (Host): Sure. 

Jeff Mason: But, so for everyone, it is a beginner course. 

Ryan Williams (Host): How do you encourage collaboration between students in the classroom?

Jeff Mason: Well, that's part of my expectation is helping each other. I always, I push. I push them to help each other debug if they have an error. One reason is that, when you're helping someone debug, you're also helping, you're also learning how to code. Because if you just, that's 

Ryan Williams (Host): so true. 

Jeff Mason: Like I could sit there and give them all the answers, but all they learn is that I'm another ai, I'll just give 'em all the answers.

Jeff Mason: So, generally they're really good about getting up and helping each other. Sometimes you'll have groups that they'll get up and walk across the room to help someone That's a problem before I even realize there's a problem. 

Jeff Mason: That's the best case scenario. That's 

Ryan Williams (Host): so nice. Yeah. 

Jeff Mason: If I have a group that's a little more reserved.

Jeff Mason: I do have a randomizer and I'll just click randomize and be like, you know what John said he would love to help you. And then John will walk across the room and help them. Debug. 

Ryan Williams (Host): Kind of voluntold. 

Jeff Mason: Yeah. 

Ryan Williams (Host): Yeah. Nice. 

Jeff Mason: And I do do group projects and I, do different things to, , to get them to collaborate, work together.

Ryan Williams (Host): Very cool. Do you think, what advantages do adult students and high school students often bring that might surprise the other learners? 

Jeff Mason: Adults are more focused. So I think that helps with the high school students and usually a lot of times the high school students are more current on what's going with technology and pop culture.

Ryan Williams (Host): Sure. 

Jeff Mason: So they can go that, that dynamic can go back and forth. 

Ryan Williams (Host): Yeah, that makes total sense. How does this program prepare students for continuous learning in such a crazy, fast changing field? 

Jeff Mason: I give them the tools that they need in order to, find the answers themself. I want to, as I said earlier, I want them to be self-sufficient coders.

Jeff Mason: I want them to be problem solvers. That's the number one tool that they need, that I want them to leave with is to be a problem solver. 

Ryan Williams (Host): Do you get into the details of say, like best business practice and maybe privacy, security issues with. Building these apps, 

Jeff Mason: we do a little bit, , it, since it is two languages being taught in nine months.

Ryan Williams (Host): Yeah. 

Jeff Mason: So, that's a lot to squeeze in. Okay. Because really when you do, when you, you know, put in the final projects and the first week introductions, you're squeezing a language in four months. So we do a little bit on privacy. I would like to go more in depth, but right now, , with four months, there isn't a lot of time to cover all of that.

Ryan Williams (Host): Right. What are some of the more interesting ideas that have come forth? That they were able to build. 

Jeff Mason: Well, okay. We do. I don't do paper and pencil exams. I do what's called app challenges. So every other week they pitch what apps they wanna build. They pitch them today, on Wednesday we'll draw them.

Jeff Mason: And then Friday they have all class period to build it. 

Ryan Williams (Host): Oh wow. 

Jeff Mason: And then we peer review them and peer grade them on the following Monday. So instead of, I don't want you to, I don't wanna see you memorize a bunch of stuff, I wanna see you build an app. 

Jeff Mason: And I can tell you I did look at some of the apps a day and one pitch was, .

Jeff Mason: Funky Town Fish, that song, funky Town 

Ryan Williams (Host): Feed. What? Yeah. Okay. 

Jeff Mason: And they wanna have that song playing with a fish, spinning around, and I think they wanna do a 10 hour version of it because they saw that on YouTube. So I think they wanna have a 10 hour version of that fish spinning around. So that is probably one of the most interesting ones I've seen today.

Ryan Williams (Host): And what would be the purpose of said dancing Fish? 

Jeff Mason: It is purely entertainment. 

Ryan Williams (Host): , Yes it is. 

Jeff Mason: But they would bill it from scratch on their own, so they will be learning some skills. 

Ryan Williams (Host): That is definitely accomplishment. 

Jeff Mason: It is, yeah. And I, last semester they had a one called a seus clicker. Instead of clicker, they put his head on there and he approved this.

Jeff Mason: He wanted this, so he pitched it. So then every time you press him, it would add points to it. So instead of click a clicker, it was a seus clicker. So they do come with some interesting, , some interesting ideas. 

Ryan Williams (Host): So Jeff, I heard a little rumor that your students were able to work on an app for a local organization.

Ryan Williams (Host): Tell us a little bit about that. 

Jeff Mason: Okay. So we partnered up with the Tulsa Garden Club. They reached to me, they read out, they reached out to me last year about building an app for them. And what they're wanting to do is when they have their flower shows, they want an easy way to score the judge's scores.

Jeff Mason: The way the process is done now is every judge has an index card. They write down the scores. One person takes all those cards and puts 'em manually on a spreadsheet and figures out who is the winner of each category. So she wanted to know if there was a way we could make that an app, and, that was like, okay, this is doable.

Jeff Mason: Sometimes I get calls for projects that are way bigger than we could possibly build in, in one semester, but this is a doable one. So what we did last semester, and we're doing it again this semester, is we slowly built an app for this person. Throughout the semester. So when we did the layouts unit, we, at the end of the layouts unit, they had built all the layouts for the Tulsa Garden Club app.

Jeff Mason: When we got at the end of user interface, they had to put all those pieces together, graphics, animation. At the end of that, they had to go through and design and make it look nice. Then we got the data networking. They had to go through, set the database, and go through and set it up so it could collect data.

Jeff Mason: And then the last week of school, last week of the semester. Our representative from Tulsa Garden Club came out and they presented their apps to her and she got to choose which ones she wanted to use. 

Ryan Williams (Host): Oh, very cool. 

Jeff Mason: So that was the Apple version. We did have, fortunately we captured everything that she wanted.

Jeff Mason: However, it was in every, each app had one piece that she wanted, 

Ryan Williams (Host): of course. 

Jeff Mason: So this app over here was perfect. Collected. She collected the data. She wanted this app, collected the data, how she wanted it. This app looked, this app had the exact design she wanted. So we're combining. Those are the one full app.

Jeff Mason: And now that we have an app complete of Apple side, this semester we'll be taking the Apple app and making the Android version of it. 

Ryan Williams (Host): Okay, so you kind of have to pull it back apart. 

Jeff Mason: Right. So right now we're in the, right now we're doing the, the layout unit. So as soon as we finish the layout unit, they now have to replicate the Apple version into Android, and then same as last semester, design interface will combine those and then at the end, data networking, they'll combine it.

Jeff Mason: And the goal is by the end of the year. They have a fully functioning app for both Apple Android. So instead of having to, having to take all those handwritten cards, she can walk around and just punch in the numbers and then have the spreadsheet built automatically for her. 

Ryan Williams (Host): That's very cool. That'll be very cool for them.

Jeff Mason: Yeah. So they get to do a actual real world project. 

Ryan Williams (Host): Yeah. How cool is that? That, I mean, it actually kind of works out in my view, in my mind, that she was able to take little pieces of each. . And that way the students then could. Collaborate and combine all of their projects and see how that worked out.

Ryan Williams (Host): Yeah. Very cool. What are some of the differences between where apps used to be and how complicated they have to be in today's modern world? Say like back when when I had a Blackberry and you know, I don't envision, those were too terribly challenging apps to build, but maybe they were, I don't know. 

Jeff Mason: Let's say traditionally you would go in.

Jeff Mason: Build 'em line by line. So let's start building your apps. But with AI now that can generate a lot of your code, so now you can focus more on the design and extra features. 

Jeff Mason: So something I'm gonna introduce to this semester is, and question mark, which is, they may finish an app, it looks good, but I might go and, well, now you have this tool, what else can you add to it?

Jeff Mason: . What else can you, what else can you, um, how can you expand that of. But I'd say that's the biggest change is just their approach line by line versus, , AI generated. 

Ryan Williams (Host): Do you think AI's going to be, I don't wanna be a pessimist, but a little bit of a detriment to that skillset of coding? 

Jeff Mason: No. I believe that AI is not gonna replace coders, but people who know how to use AI are gonna replace coders who don't know how to use ai.

Ryan Williams (Host): What does the current employment outcome picture look like? For students who graduate? 

Jeff Mason: Right now, since it is, since students are trying to learn a full language in four months, usually at the end of the year the students go, okay, I do need a little more training. I'll have one or two that are ready to go out.

Jeff Mason: They may start by freelancing. They may they may get a job in it, but most of them do at the end of the year. Like, okay, this is a lot. I've learned a lot, but I don't think I'm ready yet. So most of, most of the students do go on to another IT program. 

Ryan Williams (Host): Okay. Moving on to college or, 

Jeff Mason: and most of my students are also high school juniors, so most of them are, you know, going their senior year or in their older college.

Ryan Williams (Host): I hear what you're saying. Yeah. So they may come here actually for a different IT program. 

Jeff Mason: Right? Right. 

Ryan Williams (Host): Yeah. 

Jeff Mason: Like, I did have an adult student who last year wanted to learn mobile apps at the end of the semester school. I loved it, but I decided this is not what I wanna do for a career. I wanna do tech support.

Jeff Mason: So he decided to take another program. 

Ryan Williams (Host): Yeah. 

Jeff Mason: That's still a success though. I mean, he spent a year Oh yeah, for sure. Like, okay, I loved it. This isn't for me. 

Ryan Williams (Host): We talk about those stories all the time where it's like, take this program, understand that, whether that's your path or not, and what a great way to be able to figure it out.

Ryan Williams (Host): Yeah. 

Jeff Mason: He learned it is his path, but coding is not, 

Ryan Williams (Host): there you go. Yeah. Okay. We're gonna take a quick break, Jeff, when we come back, we are gonna talk about the other opportunities in the program and get to know you a little bit better.

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Ryan Williams (Host): Okay, we are back. Before the break, we talked a little bit about our mobile app development program, but while attending, . Jeff, there are even more opportunities available. Your students can take part in a career tech student organization. What does that add overall to your student experience? 

Jeff Mason: That is where I see a lot of times I see the biggest growth, especially with their, self, self-image.

Jeff Mason: Because I'll have students who come in very shy, don't wanna collaborate, don't want to work with other people necessarily, and then see them walk across stage at BPA National's winning award is one of the biggest rewards of the program. Okay. 

Ryan Williams (Host): Okay. So Jeff, what about you? Have you always worked in the classroom?

Jeff Mason: No, I used to work in retail and I secretly wanted to be a teacher, so I didn't go straight outta college into education. It took me a little longer to get there. But I've been teaching now since 2007. I had to look at my own resume. My boss asked me how long I've been teaching and I look at my own resume 'cause I wasn't sure.

Ryan Williams (Host): What was your first job in the tech world? 

Jeff Mason: My first job, well, my degree is actually broadcast journalism. 

Ryan Williams (Host): Oh wow. 

Jeff Mason: And I focused on public relations, so that way I would get a little bit of everything. So I had to do a little bit of photography and video editing, a little bit of coding, a little bit of everything.

Jeff Mason: So my first one was a media, so I was, , video producer, but that also entailed digital editing. Photography, like everything. So my first job out of college was multimedia. 

Ryan Williams (Host): You were a jack of all trades. 

Jeff Mason: Yeah. 

Ryan Williams (Host): So, yeah. Have you always had a passion for building things like mobile apps and things? 

Jeff Mason: I do like being creative.

Jeff Mason: I like the creative side of things. I never wanted to be like, I never wanted be the person in front. Like I didn't wanna be on the stage or be the person on the air, but I wanna be the person behind the scenes. When I wasn't a teacher, I wanna be the person behind the scenes telling people what to do.

Ryan Williams (Host): You're a doer.

Jeff Mason: Like, no, you didn't say that. Right. Say it this way. No, that needs more emphasis. Tone this down, that sort of thing. 

Ryan Williams (Host): Sure. What surprised you most when you transitioned from industry into the classroom? 

Jeff Mason: Originally from the classroom, there wasn't too big of a change.

Jeff Mason: 'cause the first couple years was adjunct teaching at a college. So really? Working with adult students was not the biggest change. The biggest change for me was going from high college to teaching high school students. That was the biggest change for me. 

Ryan Williams (Host): Yeah. How so? 

Jeff Mason: In college I found that you could have one big project at the end and slowly build up to it.

Jeff Mason: And high school, you could have the big project at the end, but no one necessarily was engaged about that project until the very end when it was due. 

Ryan Williams (Host): Sure. 

Jeff Mason: So I, I had to change my approach. In high school I made it more urgent. Like instead of the big project being at the end, it'd be the very first thing I introduced.

Jeff Mason: Because then they would actually wanna learn what they needed to learn to get that big project done. 

Ryan Williams (Host): Okay. 

Jeff Mason: So I flipped it in high school. 

Ryan Williams (Host): Nice. 

Jeff Mason: And another shift, I'll see another shift. 

Ryan Williams (Host): Yeah. 

Jeff Mason: I also used to teach broadcasting, journalism, photography, switching from that class to computer classes.

Jeff Mason: 'cause it's a different. A different approach also. 

Ryan Williams (Host): Well, a different demographic of student. Right. Different, I mean, the whole approach would be different, 

Jeff Mason: right? 

Ryan Williams (Host): Yeah. How does your real world experience influence the way you teach this program? 

Jeff Mason: Well, knowing, the things I experienced when I was, when I was outside the classroom gives me an idea.

Jeff Mason: I mean, things that I need to prepare them for. And probably the top thing is soft skills. 

Ryan Williams (Host): I was just gonna bring this up. Yeah. What ha what industry habits or expectations. Do you try to pass on? Not from day one. 

Jeff Mason: , The biggest soft skills is communication and collaboration. 

Ryan Williams (Host): Probably. I like being on time, things like that too.

Ryan Williams (Host): Yeah. Collaboration, communication. Tell me a little bit more about that, how that would work in your program. Why is that so important? 

Jeff Mason: Well, you know, when you have, when you have an air in your project okay. I'm an obsessor. I will fight with that error for days at a time until I finally figure it out.

Jeff Mason: I, and I have students who I was like, okay, raise your hand if you're my obsessors. Okay, here's a habit you need to get into. Give yourself about 20 minutes and then ask for someone else to look at it. You might just need to proofreader. You may just be missing one thing. , So it's the collaboration part working together 

Ryan Williams (Host): rather than like me killing hours and hours and hours trying to perfect it, 

Jeff Mason: right.

Ryan Williams (Host): Finding that error. 

Jeff Mason: Yes. Last year I spent 10 days on one issue. I did figure it out, but I probably did about nine and a half days way too long. I figured it out though. 

Ryan Williams (Host): I feel your pain. 

Jeff Mason: But yeah. 

Ryan Williams (Host): What keeps you excited about mobile technology after all these years? 

Jeff Mason: Okay. I, I like learning. 

Jeff Mason: I said I spend six months on Apple and six months on Android.

Jeff Mason: So even though I do have to rebuild my projects, me getting in there and figuring out how these new things work, I still enjoy doing that, figuring out how things work. 

Ryan Williams (Host): What's the most slickest thing out of the latest updates that you've seen? 

Jeff Mason: Oh, okay. Okay. On Android studio, . I did mention earlier how like everything has a different place.

Jeff Mason: Like your text might be on one file, your codes will be another file. Well, this last update and now tells you like if there's a line of code, it might say three usages. You can click it until you like where all that code is. So last year you might have to go, wait, I think I put this over here. I think this is down here.

Jeff Mason: But now it tells you exactly where the code is, which I really do like. So that is 

Ryan Williams (Host): helpful. 

Jeff Mason: Yeah. That is one of the best updates this year. 

Ryan Williams (Host): Okay. 

Jeff Mason: That I, that's come up on this latest version of Android that we're teaching that, that I'm teaching. 

Ryan Williams (Host): Kudos to Android okay. Jeff, before we wrap up, why should someone out there consider applying for the mobile app development program?

Jeff Mason: This program will give you the skills to succeed. Well, I believe this program will give you the skills to succeed in any other IT program. Or any, in any, any industry does give you a lot of the base skills you need for any other IT program. So I think this is a great start if you wanna go into it. 

Ryan Williams (Host): Very nice.

Ryan Williams (Host): Thanks for joining us today. 

Jeff Mason: Alright, thank you. 

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