When a Vietnam vet's road to reconciliation with his son intersects with my own journey as an author, the result is a poignant exploration of familial bonds, military service, and the lingering echoes of PTSD. Join us for an enlightening chat with Lieutenant Colonel Lisa Jaster, an icon of determination and one of the first women to graduate from Ranger School, as she recounts the challenges she faced and the stereotypes she shattered along her path. Her story is not just inspiring—it's a blueprint for leadership and perseverance in the face of adversity.
Every veteran faces the daunting task of reentering civilian life, each with a unique set of skills shaped by the crucible of military experience. On this episode, we dissect the transition process, revealing how the principles of effective leadership and communication within the military can revolutionize civilian workplaces. We share the subtle yet powerful strategies that help navigate authority, command respect, and transform veterans into trusted advisors and changemakers—a testament to the universal applicability of our armed forces' rigorous training.
Rounding off our conversation, we celebrate the multifaceted lives led by veterans. From breaking barriers in gender roles to embarking on charity bike rides, we discuss how personal goals and service can harmoniously coexist, crafting a life of purpose and fulfillment. We also dive into the digital realm where Lisa continues to influence and provoke thought, engaging in the broader conversation to foster growth and acceptance. It's an episode that not only honors the legacy of those who've served but also offers a glimpse into the vibrant future they're building.
Find Lisa on Instagram
Purchase her book Delete the Adjective
Contact Thad - VictoriousVeteranProject@Gmail.com
Thanks for listening!
When a Vietnam vet's road to reconciliation with his son intersects with my own journey as an author, the result is a poignant exploration of familial bonds, military service, and the lingering echoes of PTSD. Join us for an enlightening chat with Lieutenant Colonel Lisa Jaster, an icon of determination and one of the first women to graduate from Ranger School, as she recounts the challenges she faced and the stereotypes she shattered along her path. Her story is not just inspiring—it's a blueprint for leadership and perseverance in the face of adversity.
Every veteran faces the daunting task of reentering civilian life, each with a unique set of skills shaped by the crucible of military experience. On this episode, we dissect the transition process, revealing how the principles of effective leadership and communication within the military can revolutionize civilian workplaces. We share the subtle yet powerful strategies that help navigate authority, command respect, and transform veterans into trusted advisors and changemakers—a testament to the universal applicability of our armed forces' rigorous training.
Rounding off our conversation, we celebrate the multifaceted lives led by veterans. From breaking barriers in gender roles to embarking on charity bike rides, we discuss how personal goals and service can harmoniously coexist, crafting a life of purpose and fulfillment. We also dive into the digital realm where Lisa continues to influence and provoke thought, engaging in the broader conversation to foster growth and acceptance. It's an episode that not only honors the legacy of those who've served but also offers a glimpse into the vibrant future they're building.
Find Lisa on Instagram
Purchase her book Delete the Adjective
Contact Thad - VictoriousVeteranProject@Gmail.com
Thanks for listening!
This guy read my book, hadn't spoken to his son in like five years, because he was like, as a Vietnam vet, I know what you guys did in Iraq, like how the hell do you have PTSD? You're just trying to, you know, scrape money off the government and you were just a mechanic. What he didn't realize is he read the book and was like you know, I bet there's something more to my son's story than I realize. Maybe I should ask the questions because again, he looked at my book when he had it in his hand and he was like no chick could do what I did. That was the first thing that went through his head. He was automatically living only in his own world. He read my book and suddenly he lived in my world and he's like Lisa's stories are the exact same stories as mine were when I went through Ranger school in the late 60s Same swamps, same mountains, same obstacle courses.
Lisa Jaster:So he calls his son. They start talking. He sends me a note. I bawled like a baby, I won't lie. He sends me a note. He's like my son was a mechanic in Afghanistan and part of his job was trying to piece vehicles together to make operating vehicles because so many were getting hit by IEDs. Well, when he was working on those vehicles, it wasn't just broken parts, it was also broken body parts that were stuck in engines. So at PTSD from pulling feet and you know, like gruesome things.
Thad David:My name is Thad David. I'm a former Marine recon scout sniper with two deployments to Iraq. As a civilian, I've now facilitated hundreds of personal and professional development trainings across the country, and it struck me recently that the same things that help civilians will also help veterans succeed in their new roles as well. Join me as we define civilian success principles to inspire veteran victories. Welcome to another episode. I'm here today with Lieutenant Colonel Lisa Jaster. How are you doing, lisa?
Lisa Jaster:Good. How are you today, Matt?
Thad David:I'm doing excellent. Thank you so much for jumping on. It's really an honor to have you on the show.
Lisa Jaster:I'm glad to be here.
Thad David:Well, for anybody that doesn't know, you are one of the first of three that group of three women to graduate from Ranger School and I'm very excited to jump in and just talk about that. That's an incredible thing. You really paved the way for some really amazing things.
Lisa Jaster:Thank you.
Thad David:Yeah, well, and if you could, what sparked how long have you been in the military? I know you're still in now, but what sparked you to join the military?
Lisa Jaster:Oh, wow. So I'm old, I'm 46 years old, and I was in sixth, seventh grade, I guess, when the first Gulf War happened, right? So Operation Desert Storm, desert Shield, and I'm watching TV 10, almost 11, I guess, and there are these soldiers on TV and no matter what your political beliefs are the way the world was in the 90s, your early 90s, you're watching TV and these are our American heroes going there and helping in the Middle East. That's the way it was portrayed. What you believe, that's a different story. But I'm talking about the eyes of a middle schooler, right, and I had seen movies and I'd seen a bunch of things. But here were real people, people that weeks earlier were at home with their spouses and their kids and their families celebrating, doing normal people things, and now they're overseas and they're doing something that was asked of them that they never, ever, expected to be doing, and so conversations in our household and in our community I'm from a very small town in Wisconsin, it's Plymouth, wisconsin and our community starts talking about these heroes and I thought, wow, some kids want to be movie stars, some kids want to be actresses, actresses, whatever. Those people pretend to be, the people we're watching on TV right now. So this realization came to me that if I wanted to be a real hero, granted all into GI Joe at the time. Gi Jane was also into He-Man and Thunder Cats. So judge me as you see fit, but this is that time of my life and I'm like these are the real American heroes, these are the true people that are doing the stuff that figurines are made out of.
Lisa Jaster:So at that point in time, some of it was happenstance, but my paternal grandmother lived in Massachusetts and she had walked by Harvard and they were having a book sale and she bought this book for me that was 99 cents, called In the Men's House, by Carol Barkalaw. She was one of the first women to graduate from West Point and she had sent me the book and it came. You know, right after I came to this realization that these people on TV were heroes. And so I'm reading this book and I read very. I love reading. But I read through a book once might take notes and I never look at it again. It's just the way I am. And I read In the Men's House several times. And then my father was a West Point grad as well.
Lisa Jaster:My mother, my entire family extremely patriotic, my grandparents. Actually, their entire living room was decorated in red, white and blue to include a handmade quilt Like this is not. This is kind of blood is the color of the flag in my family. So it just made sense to me, starting in seventh grade. I'm going to go to West Point, I'm going to be an Army officer and I'm going to join the military and I'm going to serve my nation for a lifetime, whether that's five years in the military and then volunteering in the PTA, or it's 25 years in the military and working the polls every four years. But it was kind of set into my head in seventh grade that this is what I needed to do and it became this drastic calling for me, which I know is really weird. But between now and the end of this discussion you'll realize I'm like many of us. I'm an extreme personality and I think most people are. They're just extreme about different things. Everybody finds their little niche. I found mine in seventh grade and I still haven't given it up, I guess.
Thad David:What do you mean by that with extreme personalities? That most people are Just in different ways?
Lisa Jaster:Well, I think most people are Like if you have a fitness enthusiast, you don't work out for a year. You work out for 20 years when you see people flexing in the gym. And I love this right Because, again, I'm 46. So I'm on the crest of my physical prowess. But academically and educationally I'm just starting to hit my stride. So I'm a lot more observant when I'm in a fitness community than I was once upon a time. So you look around the gym and you look at somebody who's posing and you know that you can see the progression.
Lisa Jaster:Women are the best because they come in with these soccer basketball shorts the first year and then all of a sudden they're wearing booty shorts and next thing you know they've got these little like and you know what I'm talking about. They're the same way. They go from these baggy shorts and baggy t-shirts to then they're wearing the muscle shirts and they just kind of walk towards the mirrors and they look at themselves and I love watching that. That used to be a sign of arrogance for me, but now it's like. You know, when you work out and you start seeing, fitness is a super easy example. It's true in academics, it's true in any extracurricular, it's true in sports, it's true in literature, if you study history, whatever it is. But in that first year you're just scratching the surface and when you see those people, using my example of the gym, who have changed their clothes, who are now bringing their, their shakers with them everywhere they go, like those people have adopted this extreme sense of belonging. It's a community, it's an environment, it's part of who they are. You don't get great muscles that you can flex in a year. You get those over 10 years of working hard and you know being smart at Christmas and all all of these other things add into the lifestyle and we all have that kind of extreme personality. But mine is super obvious and I'm willing to talk about it and and I think about it when I watch my son's trying to learn to juggle it for years, right, and he just hasn't been able to figure it out. Well, now he's 15. And there isn't a round anything in our house, whether it's Christmas ornaments as we're decorating, whether it's oranges, whether it is my new stress balls that I have or lacrosse balls that are in the gym, he is juggling everything and that's his little extreme path that he's just following and you know he might give it up at some point in time. I assume he will. I don't. I don't know many people who make a career out of juggling, but you know we all like get our hearts set on something and kind of follow that path. So mine was very, very early.
Lisa Jaster:I just I wish it was altruistic. Like I wish my service was altruistic because it made me feel good. But it really is selfish. Like I like the way I feel when I'm in uniform. I like the way I feel when I'm in leadership roles. I like the way I feel when I'm a subordinate leader and I have no positional power and I have to see the right path and negotiate. And I don't want to say coerce I'm sure there's a more intellectual word for it but I kind of coerce my boss into agreeing with me so that he is the decision maker, can can push the needle the same way that I think it should go. Like I love that, I find that very rewarding and it's not service to the nation, altruism, it's kind of service to me, altruism.
Thad David:Interesting. Well, I love that you brought the extreme personalities because it's something that it's a conversation I have with my wife often that I just go all in, like when I do something it's we're all in with it, and I always thought it was a me thing so, selfishly, I was looking for how can I apply this to everybody else and have it. Have it not be me, but it makes a lot of sense the way that you bring it up. You mentioned you love being a subordinate leader and that you love to be able to tell us some more about that. What does that mean to you and how does that show up?
Lisa Jaster:Man, I don't know that I thought about it that deeply ahead of time. But think about the family unit. I would definitely say you know, my husband is the head of our family right now. For a long time I was primary income and he was starting his own business and I took some leadership roles in the family, but right now he's primary income as I've gone out and gone as a independent. With regards to leadership development, some of the other things I did when I published my book this year, he definitely has a leadership role in the family and if you're married or if you're in any sort of relationship, you and your partner lead together, but oftentimes you switch who's kind of the primary and so, like right now in our family, he's primary in a lot of things, but it's my job to kind of gently nudge him, almost like being part of a committee, and so the family unit is one example, and it's one I enjoy bringing up, because people make a lot of assumptions about me being because I did break a glass ceiling and I am very active in certain communities that I don't respect the fact that you know, or that my husband might be subordinate to me, which is really not the case. So outside of that family unit. Another example would be I am currently as a reservist on joint staff. I'm not in charge of anyone or anything, but the work I do can impact a lot of people. So I have supervisors, obviously, who are the ones who dictate what will be done within our group, but sometimes in a positive way, and sometimes I don't impact their decision making. But I do enjoy the idea of creating a good argument, having discussion points, doing the research, sometimes changing my own mind in the process of it.
Lisa Jaster:I'll use another military example. Oftentimes and I know you've been out for a while, but and I hope you've never been involved in any military investigations but no, it could be very simple right, somebody loses the getting a vehicle accident. Right, you're, you're in the military. You get in an accident with a military vehicle. There's always an investigation. Is the person responsible? Did they do something wrong? Did the leadership set them up for success or failure?
Lisa Jaster:As the investigator, it's not your job to be the leader, to be the decision maker, but it is your job to collect all the data and make sure the right decisions are made. And there has been, there has never been a time, whether it's in an investigation or looking at a political dictate that impacts our military. Because, again, joint staff, the job we do is staffing. We decide who goes where and when there hasn't been a decision made where I haven't peeled the onion and found oh wait, a second here my first assumption was at least microcosmically wrong, like there was at least something wrong with my initial assumptions. So I like the idea of doing the research to have the discussion points and then be able to feed that to the important decision makers and it's a support role, but it's really it's almost more influential sometimes than being the actual decision maker.
Thad David:Hmm, and it's intriguing to and I had no idea we were even going to mention this, but it is intriguing to me because I feel like a lot of veterans that get out of the military can sometimes feel kind of stuck in this listening to a civilian, and I wonder what lessons they can take from just being that supportive leader, as you talked about that, that you can still be a leader and you can still help to shift the perspective of the organization that you're in if you look at it through that lens. And so I think it's interesting that you brought that out.
Lisa Jaster:What ranked for you when you got out.
Thad David:I was an E4, I was a corporal and then I got promoted to, I got actually Sergeant right when I got out I got I actually have it right here randomly.
Lisa Jaster:Well, okay, perfect, because I was going to talk about the E4 Mafia you want to talk about subordinate leadership, talk about the E4 Mafia and I assume most of your listeners are military but for those who aren't, think about individual contributors that have two to three years, usually under their relative experience, but they're not so experienced that anyone's putting them in a high level role. But we know damn well, they're kind of like the seventh graders at middle school, like the eighth graders are walking around as the big kids on campus. Am I wrong?
Thad David:No, 100%. I love it. That's great.
Lisa Jaster:But the seventh graders like they decide which games are cool with what we're doing. Do we dress up for Red Ribbon week or is it not cool, right? That's that's kind of the seventh graders role. That's the E4 Mafia. They really make all of the decisions in a unit. And if, if you're in a leadership billet like when I'm actually assigned as a platoon leader, a company commander, even a battalion commander if you're not talking to the E4 Mafia, you have no idea what's going on.
Lisa Jaster:And that concept can be brought into the business world, because we oftentimes go into the business world and we're like oh, I've got five years of military experience, I've been leading this whole time, I've been doing all of these things I went to combat, and that doesn't translate into corporate America. What does translate is exactly that, that servant leadership, that indirect management of decision making, the. Hey, I was talking to people at the water cooler and I know you think this initiative is really great. But here are some of the points that you might not have thought of. And in the military we'd refer to that as red teaming.
Lisa Jaster:You know, you've got your. You've got your blue good guy icons over here and your red bad guy icons over here. What is the bad guy is going to do and how should the blue guys react? Right, that's red teaming. Again. Terminology doesn't make any sense in corporate America, but you can say using your E4 Mafia, using your water cooler conversations hey, listen, this is a great idea, but the community that I'm a part of sees these potential flaws. How would you like to manage that? And that's a great way to communicate up and also influence the decision making process.
Thad David:And I want to point out that, just to make sure people heard that too, because I love how you just asked a question there and it's such a I think a lot of people don't grasp the power of a really good question versus a statement. When you said how would you like to manage here, versus telling them what to do, because I was thinking about it. You know anybody listening here, if we're just following this thread a little bit further, if somebody's listening to it thinking, you know what? I've got this civilian boss that I don't know what to do? I don't know they don't listen, they're not respecting me. What would you say they're like? How should they? How should they make that approach? If they're looking to do that, what's the best way to approach them with that advice or with those thoughts?
Lisa Jaster:Yeah, you know, in the military because we're so direct and it's not as much today. The military has definitely changed since I was commissioned in 2000,. But it used to be fairly dictatorial and there was a hey soldier, if you're going to come to me with a problem, come to me with your solution. We don't necessarily do that anymore, but the concept is still there. But instead of presenting in a corporate environment hey boss, the Coca Cola, okay, we're going to use Coca Cola as an example.
Lisa Jaster:I travel all the time the new Coke machines that they came out. They came out with the symbol. It looked absolutely phallic, it looked absolutely terrible from a distance and I know that there was some E4 mafia type that saw that at print press and giggled but had the fear of God in them that they couldn't go up to corporate and be like this is dumb, people are going to hate it. I, of course, never said anything, but I saw it in the airport for like less than a month and then all of the Coke machines were changed. You can Google if you want more information than that. But just, I like took pictures of it. I was like this is crazy. Who didn't say something? But that's one of those times where, okay, you're afraid your boss isn't going to listen to you. You know you can bring value. How do you? The question you asked that was how do you address that with your supervisors? You come into them and you've got the solutions in your head, but you talk your leadership on to making their own conclusions which may not align with yours, and you have to be okay with that. But if you know where a potential end state is let's say Coca Cola needs to change their marketing plan you know they need to change it. You have an idea of what would be again, just a slight switch of what they were already doing. That would look better. Well, they're not going to come up with whatever solution you're going to come up with, but you can start asking them questions to guide that way. And again, it's the questions and not the push. Hey boss, I took a look at what you're planning on presenting. I think it's really great, but when my wife looked at it she was like, ooh, that kind of makes me think of this, which isn't really what you want to associate with Coca Cola. And so I was thinking maybe we could wargame it, maybe we could red team it. What are your thoughts? Have you had anybody? Look at this? You know, the biggest thing is when you're asking those questions.
Lisa Jaster:It's important, especially in corporate supervisors when you're former military, because they assume we're aggressive. Military are assumed to be aggressive. Most of us are not. We know what roles we play in the military, but when we get into corporate America, our intonations can sound aggressive because we're used to talking to alphas. So you need to come out with saying the same things, but saying it in a way where you're not undermining the authority of your supervisor.
Lisa Jaster:And I use my family as an excuse a lot. Hey, boss, I ran this past my husband and he brought up some really good points. Hey, my kids took a look at this and they started thinking it was funny. And I don't think that's on brand. And it's a really easy way to make the situation a little less intense, because my company command was in South Korea and one of the things I learned with the culture there at the time again, this was almost 20 years ago now. Okay, I really am old I have a break in service, by the way so I did a lot of stuff. This was 2005 through 2007.
Lisa Jaster:And I had to deal with the culture and a married man with children is hierarchically or socially higher in the hierarchy Right. I was an unmarried woman with no children, but I was a company commander who was supervising these civilian men, and so I had to figure out ways to allow them to say no without saying no. I had to help them say hey, I can't do this without making them say I'm unable to do something because that would be considered emasculating. So instead of saying hey, fad, can you get this done by the end of the day, I would say hey, fad, if this was really important and I needed you to get it done by the end of the day, what would you have to skip? And you know it's a lengthy process and it's exhausting, but it's relationship wise. It definitely helps. It also makes you someone that your supervisor becomes more comfortable bouncing ideas off.
Thad David:I love how you tie that in, give an example and I really appreciate the all of the examples you gave in it with the family and the kids was a great one as well, because it's not you saying, hey, this is a dumb idea. You're saying, hey, this, somebody saw this and I wasn't sure what to think. What do you think about their thoughts here, and you're kind of just the neutral messenger and playing that really in a very tactful way. And I think that I know for me, having some tact was not always something that I had right away and just from the direct nature of what it was. I know, for me, my experience very direct. But I love how you tie that in and just bring it up, because I think a lot of veterans do struggle with stepping into civilian roles and they are going to start in a usually in a lower hierarchy position and that they're going to have to lead from the bottom.
Lisa Jaster:Yeah, and I will tell you my number one lesson learned when I exited the military into corporate America is it's important to ask people how their day is in the military. You just kind of come in and you're like, hey, we got PT and but you spend so much time together, you wait until you're sitting for lunch or your car pooling or you're in the motor pool doing motor stables to ask somebody how their day is going, because you don't have time. First thing in the morning was just hey, we're at PT, we salute the flag, we go for a run, you're sweaty. Hey, do you need a ride to the chow hall? You're good and it's all very structured. And then we in the military do our social later on. And in corporate America you really need to warm up first, and so, for for veterans who are new to the transition, I highly recommend starting every day with hey, how are you, how was your night?
Thad David:So why is that? And I completely agree, and I just want to ask why. Why is that important?
Lisa Jaster:Because there isn't the bond. Like as soon as you mentioned first recon that I was like, oh, my husband was in fourth recon, he did this, he did his platoon command here, his company command here, he did his battalion. Like I had all of these things that I already connected and associated you with and I will forever remember what unit you served in in an instant. We don't have that with our civilian counterparts unless we went to the same college. But even then it's not the same, because you, hey, where were you stationed? And if you say, hey, I was stationed at Schofield Barracks, I'd be like, oh, do you remember the old Burger King? Yeah, that burned down. And automatically, again, there's a connection you don't have that with with your civilian counterparts, so you have to build it every day.
Thad David:Well, and I I think even more. I think about how daunting it could be to be a civilian, Because that's something I do a poor job of is realizing kind of my past military background, because I don't. I just look at it as like, Yep, that's what I just did, whatever I had to do. But when I talk to civilians about it, or people like co workers, they're like, oh, that's really amazing what you did. I'm like what do you? That's just what. But I would imagine it could be daunting to kind of break the ice, and so if you're the one that initiates it, not only does it need to happen, but you're probably going to have to be the one that initiates it, given a veteran's military background.
Lisa Jaster:Yeah, and something else is as vets were super comfortable and in the uncomfortable. Whether you've deployed, you served only in a garrison environment, but think about going to basic training and having. You still remember your drill sergeant's name I know you do, everybody does Like and you remember his face. You remember the smell of his breath. Like you remember your first bunkmate. You remember the first time you were with people who weren't like, minded, and the only connection you had was service to the nation.
Lisa Jaster:Like you have all of this uncomfortable initiation, you have a very uncomfortable initiation into the military and a lot of people in corporate America. They've gone through uncomfortable, but it's like the first day of school or something that isn't as bringing in as many dynamic personalities, dynamic cultures you know. Think about especially people who have served in the last 20, 25 years. We've had to learn about Middle Eastern cultures we'd have to learn about. We all had to learn Arabic phrases and some learned Pashtun and some learned Dari and you know it's it's things that have just been thrust at you that made you uncomfortable. And and we're comfortable Our counterparts might not be comfortable. The first time your company is working with a foreign entity. You're like, oh, okay. But your civilian counterparts might be like Okay, well, what are the man? They get nervous. It's difficult if they haven't experienced everything that we have, and so if we can help them in the help, make the uncomfortable comfortable for them, they'll be much more willing to bring us into the fold in the future.
Thad David:Yeah, I can definitely appreciate that. And one thing that struck me, though, too, because I definitely think that we're comfortable being very uncomfortable in the military setting, and it seems like some veterans get out and they're not, so they it's the uncomfortable scenario of having that conversation, yet they tend to avoid that uncomfortable push into it. And so I definitely agree very comfortable being uncomfortable in certain situations, and yet it seems like sometimes they just don't lean into those conversations as much. But it should be something I think everybody should do, just because it's where they have been doing.
Lisa Jaster:When I think to to veteran tires is a protected class, just like so. I work, stem. I'm a civil engineer. That's my background. So being a woman in civil engineering and in the STEM world as a protected class if you're disabled, if you're of your BIPOC or of minority status in certain communities, those are tracked statuses.
Lisa Jaster:Being a veteran is a tracked status and a lot of the companies I work with in my leadership development role they don't even know how many veterans they have because the veterans are afraid to bring it up.
Lisa Jaster:And the reason why is the veterans who have been very forward about being vats are the ones who talk about combat. And I did this and you must respect. So those of us who might not have spent 20 years in, or maybe maybe we weren't in the battle of Fallujah, maybe maybe we were a postal worker, maybe we were a cook or maybe we we saw some stuff and we just never, ever, ever want to talk about it and never want anybody to ask. We need to bring our veteran status forward as well, because that will help people realize that the military is a community, it is a complete. We have childcare centers and we have hospitals and we have nurses and we have postal workers and we have the guy who flips burgers, and we have all those people and they're all in uniform. So the military isn't that different than than the civilian world. It's just condensed and compressed.
Thad David:I completely forgot. I just remembered this. But my first realizing when I checked into Camp Pendleton, persarikhan. I remember showing up there and like this is, now that you're at your unit, it's kind of like a nine to five job and, like you know, seven to seven to five, whatever time you show up. But it was one thing that struck me and caught me off guard and I and just hearing you say that I was like you know what?
Thad David:I definitely didn't realize what it was like to be in the military. Yeah, we would go to the fields, but if we weren't in the field it was very much a day to day job and a lot of people don't realize it. So it's a great thing to bring up. Oh, thank you for entertaining me down this path, because it just seemed like something that would be be beneficial for people to take away, because you can still be a leader when you get out and you just have to shift your mindset about how you're going to help, help, guide people, as if I think about all of my great leaders that I've had in my life that's who helped me get to where I'm at and that's an opportunity for veterans that if you're there and you're feeling like you're the best of the best where you're at and nobody's listening to you. What support can you offer up to them? And I think you offered a bunch of insight into that. So thank you.
Lisa Jaster:And I do think in society as a whole and I'm just going to dovetail onto this because it's a, it's a passion point for me is we were talking about it before we went live, but there are topics out there that are really hard to discuss and with veterans being uncomfortable or being comfortable in the uncomfortable, I have friends from damn near every demographic I have. You know the guy who comes over and my kids call him Uncle, but he has a face tattoo and I will tell you, in Bolverdy, texas, face tattoos are really not something you're going to see around here. So when he drives up and wants to watch the kids at their sporting events, everybody turns their head. But but he's just a buddy. So because of that lived experience, because of our shared experience in the military, we are able to speak to people about potentially controversial topics not all of us, not all of us, but some of us because we have experienced those controversial groups and with, in society, race relations right now, you know that's that's a hot topic.
Lisa Jaster:Well, I can't think of a single unit I served in where there weren't seven colors of people and seven shades of those couples colors as well. So you know, I don't think anything of it. And so my daughter had one black girl on her volleyball team and she's like, oh, so and so, and she's talking about this girl. And I said the black girl, and she's like, mom, you can't call her black. I'm like, oh my God, she knows she's black. I know she's black. Hey, why don't we as a community help people remember that it's just as okay for me to call you a man as it is for you to call me a redhead Like, and so if my skin color is different or any of these other identifiers are different, if you do it in a respectful and polite way, we, as former military who have lived in these small communities that are smashed together, we could help society remember what it's like to have open and honest conversations.
Thad David:Yeah, I remember checking into my first I actually did an episode about it a while back, but checking into my unit and just you just get crammed into this group of individuals and and all of a sudden you've got some lifelong friends from all over very, very different backgrounds, from all over the country and and it's, it's a pretty cool thing.
Lisa Jaster:It is definitely.
Thad David:And so you mentioned earlier and this is a good, you mentioned a book that that somebody had given to you that inspired you to join the military, and I really want to track that down because you've now you're you're an inspiration to so many. You know you mentioned her spearheading first woman to graduate West Point. Did you know that you were going to go and become one of the first women to graduate from Ranger school at that point in time? Is that?
Lisa Jaster:so it was not even something I could have thought about. There was no way that Ranger school was even even on my to do list because it was close to women infantry and armor close to women. And then an engineer and engineers were one of the few branches that were considered at least partially combat arms to women could be in it, but it wasn't 100% combat arms like field artillery, and field artillery had just opened back up to women after being closed down. It was open in the 80s, closed and then opened again in 2000. So you know, women weren't even allowed to be in the types of units that Ranger school would be applicable to. So I never, I never thought about it.
Lisa Jaster:But as as the discussions were occurring in the Pentagon about opening Ranger school to women, I started pondering. I'm like well, this is, this is a leadership course and my peers have all attended and I, as an engineer who, like it or not, I was a major, so feel great officer. I was heading towards battalion command was my next major role. My, my Lieutenant colonels that I was competing with all had Sapper school or Ranger school or one of these accolades on their resume to prove that they were good leaders. I just had, you know, former bosses saying, yeah, she's good and and and so it put me at a disadvantage with regards to resume and so I never thought about it.
Lisa Jaster:The first 15 years of my career I never thought it was even a possibility. But when the opportunity opened for me, I did have to get goaded into it. But once, once I accepted the challenge to go to Ranger school, I thought, well, you know if, if I don't get hurt I'll, I'll definitely make it through because this is something that it's in my wheelhouse. I am around peg and around hole in Ranger school, you know, obviously physically different than my peers. I was also 37 when I went, which the average age is 23. So I was older and female. So I definitely didn't fit the model, but I definitely. I was also very comfortable in that environment.
Thad David:What do you? What do you mean by you had to get voted into it. What was that like?
Lisa Jaster:I didn't want to go to Ranger school.
Lisa Jaster:When when, when the opportunity came out, my star, major star, major, robbie Payne, was like hey, major Dastro, this is definitely something you need to go to. I replied to him and said I like room service, like I I've done hard things. I've been to Afghanistan in 2001, went to Iraq in 2002. I'm sorry, afghanistan 2002, iraq, 2003. I've done this stuff. I've gotten out of the military. I'm reservists. Now I work for oil and gas. I've done hitches offshore, like I don't have to prove anything anymore. So you know, in my head I was, I was kind of done. You know, schools like Ranger school, airborne school, those are young persons games. You know you can do that when you can recover, not when you're in your late 30s and you know, tylenol becomes your best friend and you get sore from sleeping the wrong way.
Lisa Jaster:I'm past that and and it was my husband and star, major Payne who kind of said no, you know people, people will believe that women can do it at 2324,. You know, crossfit has demonstrated to the world that there's a lot of power hidden in a lot of women out there. But some of that old age and treachery needs to come forth as well, like it can't just be youth and skill we need to show. This really is a leadership course and grit and gut do matter and that, and honestly, with women, a lot of us physically mature significantly later than men. You know, men are hitting their prime and their their early 20s. Women in their 30s they're just starting to hit full stride with regards to physicality and I can't give exact numbers because that's not my, my world, but I know that at 37 I was a lot more fit than I was at 27 or 17.
Thad David:And so they had to really convince you in it. And I mean that it's interesting, because I would have thought you would have jumped at the opportunity. But what you're saying, I mean it makes a ton of sense. What was it like going to Ranger school?
Lisa Jaster:You know in retrospect, and I know you can't necessarily firsthand Do you have kids?
Thad David:that I do.
Lisa Jaster:Okay, so maybe secondhand you can understand this. Like, being pregnant is terrible, having a child is terrible. Now that I have a 15 and 11 year old, it was absolutely magical that whole time in my life. So my viewpoint of Ranger school might be distorted in the fact that I know it was horrible at the time, that I have these great memories of bonding and learning and teaching and being a real a part of a team. But in all honesty, you know, having the opportunity to go, I have a Lieutenant now a major, because it's been so long, it's been eight years from the Mexican army who was in my class and he happened to meet a girlfriend of mine a couple weeks ago in Mexico City and he's telling her these stories about how I smiled throughout all of Ranger school and it's something he always gives me a hard time about. He's like who goes to Ranger school, shaves their head, has rashes all over their body, bug bites all over their body, sunburn and smiles and and I really did feel the whole time I was there I get to be here Like it really was amazing for me to think that those same mountains in Delanaga my father walked in 1968, and I never, ever thought I would have the opportunity.
Lisa Jaster:And you know, sometimes, when we were hiking through the woods or we were rowing our rubber boats, I thought, oh God, I want to bring my kids back here. Did you see that sunrise? And these poor young soldiers and young officers that are all in their 20s are like what is wrong with you? Did you see the sunrise? It's glorious. God meant us to be here. My God, you're messed up in the head, yeah.
Lisa Jaster:So what was it like to make a short story long? What was it like? It was surreal. I never thought I would have the opportunity and and the best part about it was because I have a really, really good support system. I talked about my husband. That talked about my kids, because I had a good support system. When my husband put me in a cab for me to go to the airport, to go to Ranger school, his last words to me were Lisa and mom have to stay at home. I'm putting major jester in this cab. So I was relieved of all of the stresses and those tendrils drawing me back home, that other people, that other people have to hang on to because maybe they don't trust their spouse or maybe they don't have somebody who's going to take care of their household while they're gone.
Thad David:It's a big. I mean you mentioned just with I have a three year old and a five year old. I travel for a living and going for three days, you know it feels like a lot, so I can't even imagine going for that length of time. You said you shaved your head. Oh yeah, so what is that? Something everybody in Ranger school just shaved heads.
Lisa Jaster:Yes, yes.
Lisa Jaster:So, for Ranger school. It's very similar to basic training and they've they've changed the standard for women. In basic training women do not have to cut their hair anymore. Cadet basic training we had to back in the 90s, but again that's changed. But at Ranger school every soldier or attendee has to cut their hair to the minimum allowable length. So when I went for men that was a shaved head, for women that was one quarter inch of hair. Any less hair for a woman was considered trendy at the time. They have since, in the last eight years since I attended, allowed women to shave their head because it made us stick out, yeah, and that's for no good reason. So now everybody just completely bicks their head.
Thad David:Wow, yes and so, and so you're there obviously a smile on your face. I've heard some just absolutely atrocious stories. Ranger school is absolutely no joke. I actually one of my buddies that I first met at first recon. He had, six months prior, completed Ranger school and he was still just the most petite, tiny little thing and just looking at the, he said it was one of the toughest things he's ever done. So I mean it's, it's got to be, just had to be a surreal experience. What was the most impactful moment, aside from the sun rises and the beautiful experience? What was the just the craziest thing that happened to you in Ranger school?
Lisa Jaster:I think it was watching each individual that came with preconceived notions about women changing. Because I went as a field grade officer, I had had two company commands, I had two platoons, I already had two deployments. I had two years station overseas, I'd been in a special access program, so in a special Army program for for a couple of years and I'd worked in corporate America. So I have this, this breath of experience, and you think at that point in your life or in your career, not much is going to surprise me. You know, I've seen, I've seen the guy who goes overseas, marries the girl that's in the country illegally and can't get her home, and now he can't get home and he loses his security clearance but he's got to stay in country. Like I've seen all and I'm like, okay, what is the military going to throw at me that could possibly surprise me at Ranger school. And it was watching these young individual contributors that weren't yet in leadership positions, so young lieutenants who haven't taken their first infantry platoon yet, e for mafia types that haven't yet gotten their, their stripes. They're either not a corporal yet or they're not me. Five young e fives and e sixes who are just becoming squad leaders and they're in that interesting transition point and they're thrown into this environment where there's a political experiment to bring women into Ranger school. I personally, as Lisa Jaster, was invading the mystical bro bond and I was going to ruin everything that men did, like I was invading masculinity. And and I'm okay with people thinking that, I'm 100% okay with people thinking that because what nobody realized is I wasn't trying to change camouflage into pink bossy oak. I wasn't coming in and bringing scented body sprays. I was coming in to do the same thing that every one of them was doing, and that's to perfect my trade craft. And you know, no matter who you are, whether you're that postal worker or you're an infantryman or you're a navy seal, the military's job is to close with and destroy the enemy, and that's what we're practicing at Ranger school. So, going back to the question of what was the biggest kind of event there was watching this young e four change his mind, not just about working with me, but willing to look at each female soldier and go wait a second here.
Lisa Jaster:If the women aren't carrying their weight, maybe it's because their commander isn't making them. Maybe it's because their squad leader is letting them get away. Get away with that maybe it's if somebody said, hey, because of the way you look, you don't have to load duffel bags in the back of this truck. Who wouldn't sit on the sidelines and and go be a coffee runner? You know, if you're gonna let me be lazy as an E4, as an E3, as an E6, I'm gonna be lazy. So when, when they saw me, they thought, wait a second here.
Lisa Jaster:Some of our gender issues in the military are leadership issues, and so I got to see that transition, one at a time, as people accepted me as their peer you know, because rank was stripped away, they accepted me as a peer, run and chainsaws and doing everything that they were doing. And then they said, okay, well, when I go back to my units, I'm gonna, when I go back to my unit, I'm gonna hold all soldiers to the same standard. I'm gonna judge you based on merit, because it wasn't just balancing out their thoughts about women, it was also the nerdy guy wearing glasses wait a minute. Where can he add value? What about the, the really tall guy? We don't have to only have him lifting the heavy stuff, okay, well, how can I leverage all the assets in my unit and not just those that are like-minded and look like me, so watching that transition for these young, younger guys was was really a life-altering experience for me was there a specific moment where you could see that shift?
Lisa Jaster:there there was, of course there was a couple of big moments. But one of the guys and it's my husband's least favorite story from the book, but it's one of the guys like, he keeps talking to me and and we're, we're coming out of a swamp crossing. So the ranger instructor told us all to change our uniforms. Like Jaster, go go hide in the woods, because, god forbid, you know, we don't want girls with boys. So I'm hiding in the woods.
Lisa Jaster:And one of my ranger buddies was like Jaster, I need to tell you something. And so I run over there and I'm, you know, barefoot, wearing my t-shirt, my pants and just like carrying all my gear. And he starts telling me these stories. And once I finally interrupt him, I'm able to say, hey, dude, do you know you're naked. And he kind of looked at me and it doesn't, it doesn't click with him. So he just keeps talking.
Lisa Jaster:I mean, he keeps talking, and finally, like everybody's getting really freaked out because we're like, okay, this is a, this is a school. You know, somebody's gonna, somebody's gonna say something, somebody's gonna write their congressman. Next thing, you know, we're all gonna be in trouble. So we finally get the guy to stop talking and I'm like, and I just walk away like we're just all gonna pretend this didn't happen, that a naked dude didn't call me, the only female remaining at ranger school, over to talk to him, and and so I walk away and and he was like oh, dude, I'm so sorry, I I forgot you were a chick.
Lisa Jaster:And it was kind of one of those moments where nothing, nothing came in the way of the fact that he wanted to share this story with his battle buddy, that's it. That's all that was in his head. And and that was one of those really big moments where I realized my value was so much more of whether than whether or not I graduated ranger school. My value was that guy was an E5. I think he was E5 promotable, and he was going to lead soldiers and he was only gonna judge him on their merit forever. That moment proved it to me.
Thad David:So that's really that's an incredible story, and I can see why your husband the one of his least favorite stories was there, anything you know, because obviously that's the pivotal moment. That's you can see why there's so much value inside of that. What were some things that you think big moments that led up to that? That level of just this is my battle buddy, because I would imagine day one probably wasn't that way, and so what were some things that that took place that got to that point?
Lisa Jaster:you know, when I was in the pre-ranger course, all the women had to graduate from a pre-ranger. It's not mandatory for men but it was because, you know, they didn't want to send women unprepared. So we went to this pre-ranger course and it was really interesting because there was a guy, specialist Johnson, and he, he really hated that we were there like he felt strongly that women you know, women and children first let's protect the, the future of our society, which, again, I'm not mad at that argument. But then he got pulled into a leadership role later on in the two-week course and he was like Jaster, I'm, I'm platoon leader, you're my platoon sergeant, and I'm like but women don't belong here. He's like I know you're gonna get stuff done and and so it was those little, those small wins that resulted in hey, you're just a battle buddy.
Lisa Jaster:I'll share a foxhole with you during Ranger school for anyone who doesn't know and I I'm not sure how familiar you are with it. You, of course, can get kicked out for failing something physically. You can fail tactics. If you do a safety violation, you can get kicked out. Of course, if you get injured, you can get kicked out or recycled, turned back. But you could be perfected, everything and then get voted off the island.
Lisa Jaster:We do peers at the end of each of the three phases and everyone in your squad ranks everyone else in your squad, one through 14 or however many you have.
Lisa Jaster:And then at the bottom of the sheet of paper that you're filling out is the question I would share a foxhole with this soldier, yes or no?
Lisa Jaster:And the amount of people who said to me verbally or checked off or ranked me high in the peers, but the amount of people who said I would share a foxhole with Lisa. That again was one of those things that showed me that people were slowly coming along and because that was completely blind if people can be nice to your face and then screw with your career in the back background, which is what we more commonly see. But in the military and you and I have already kind of alluded to it we have this weird form of communication. We're a little blunt, we. We kind of don't necessarily appreciate societal standards with regards to communication. So in the military you don't always know if somebody likes you because they're mean to you if they dislike you and they're really mean to you if they like you, and so people were being not always real nice to me. And then to get this kind of blind survey where everyone said, hey, I'd share a foxhole with Lisa was was definitely one of those pivotal points for me as well.
Thad David:I can see that as being just a very meaningful because they could have very easily, just because it's anonymous, very easily just bashed it and and so that means you were really doing some incredible things, that they noticed and and really appreciate it.
Lisa Jaster:So and I think part of the part of what helped is I didn't try to deny my femininity. I wasn't very good at communicating with the other women but while while there I started off and I wanted to be just one of the guys and my early years of my military career and working construction and oil and gas, I really just wanted to fit in. But I I did find, after I recycled and kind of was banging my head against the wall of how am I going to move forward in this course, that it was okay to be a mom and a wife and be be a woman and to kind of hold on to that instead of pushing that portion down. And there was a couple of events that happened where I was able to help these again 20, 25 year old guys who hadn't deployed yet, who hadn't lived in the field for weeks and weeks on end. You know they'd done their FTX's of their unit, which is usually about a week, sometimes two weeks, but they hadn't been in the field back to back to back, with no showers, no food trucks coming in, no hot coffee in the morning. This was a new experience.
Lisa Jaster:So I was able to give them some life lessons as somebody who's a mom and a hunter and you know say silly things that, as a parent, you know they say, hey, check your kids diaper. Like, look at poop, I'm a hunter, you look at poop. And so when somebody said, hey, something's going on with me, I'm like, hey, did you check? Like, are you hydrated, are you, are you eating enough? And start talking about things that are uncomfortable topics. But as a mom or a parent, it was well.
Thad David:If you're not checking this, you're you're missing some of the some of the obvious signs of your health do you think a lot of your I mean because you had been through, been to Afghanistan, been to Iraq do you think a lot of that played a big role and and they're being able to be more open to accept you coming in because you brought that much more experience?
Lisa Jaster:I think so because when I had a young, we call them bat boys. They're the guys that are in Ranger Battalion and for them Ranger School is really important. So for Army infantry lieutenants, if you don't graduate from Ranger School, your career definitely has a shelf life. For bat boys guys in the Ranger Battalion, if you don't graduate from Ranger School, you you have to go to conventional Army, you get kicked out of the Ranger Battalion. So it's really important to them and Ranger Battalion is culturally a very, very tight organization. So the last thing in the world you want to do is be kicked out of your family. So it was really important for them to be successful at Ranger School.
Lisa Jaster:And I had one of these young bat boys and he was 19 at the time and he was like, hey, jaster, you know, ranger School just isn't for everyone, like we. We all know you're, you're old, you're a major, you haven't walked around the woods in a while, you don't know small unit tactics. And I'm like, yeah, but you could teach me. And it came to a point where he's really good at walking around in the woods, you know at the ready position, checking his, you know 360 degrees, really really good at all the normal tactics stuff. But he had no idea how to lead that squad or get other people motivated, because he never had to do it.
Lisa Jaster:So I got to go back to him and be like, hey, bat boy, you know, not everybody's made to be a leader come here. And so I got to leverage my experience of, you know, getting people to do stuff they don't want to do and which, yes, in Afghanistan you definitely were. We're having to get people to do hey, let's go on a convoy. Yes, there there were IEDs on that route yesterday, but we're saying it's green today, let's go and and yeah, so I do believe having that experience did help to some degree well, it was even.
Thad David:I mean nowadays it's such a where, as it used to be, less common because everybody had most people when I was in had were either deploying or were going overseas at some point, whereas, as I talked to people that are just getting out now that it's a more of a rarity.
Lisa Jaster:You know, you don't see a lot of people that have deployed which has just been interesting to unpack, so I could imagine it paid some big dividends for you yeah, yeah, especially the guys who were younger and hadn't had the experience to go across the pond yet and and they had in their mind that, like, go in Afghanistan is this glorious experience, and we could easily say, hey, you know, we're not combat ops anymore and in 2015, you're gonna be handing out more water bottles than bullets right.
Thad David:So what is one thing that you wish everybody would ask you that nobody asked? I know you get a ton of questions and they're probably a lot of the same ones, but what's one that you wish everybody would ask you, or people that would ask you that they don't ask you?
Lisa Jaster:let's see, I'm not sure, I'm not sure because you know, there's, there's, you stumped me.
Lisa Jaster:Ranger school is an interesting environment in the fact that it is often assumed that it's a school like it's a training environment, but it truly is a testing environment. So I think I think you just asked kind of the question that I would want more people to ask is what was it testing? Not because people want to know, hey, what did you learn? Would you learn about yourself? Would you learn about other people? And I think a better question is what experience was tested while you were in Ranger School? And because one of the main things I learned, which was something I had known from working in corporate America not the military, but working in corporate America. But I had to relearn in Ranger School because I'd never seen that in the military.
Lisa Jaster:So as an officer, I have positional power. I have automatic authority based on the rank. I wear on my uniform every single day. At Ranger School that was stripped from me and so that was the first time. Ranger School was the first time in the military where I had to lead as a subordinate leader, where I had to go and be influential without being able to leverage any position rank.
Lisa Jaster:I had no status. I wasn't part of the E-form mafia. I wasn't the trusted inner circle. I had nothing. I wasn't from any of the units that any of the other guys were from. I was reservist, so I automatically was disrespected because I wasn't a full time soldier anymore. So what was tested in me was my ability to communicate with others in a way that they could hear me, and it was something I learned in corporate America, and I don't think I could have been as good at Ranger School had I not worked at Shell and learned those lessons of speak to be heard. Speak to be heard. Your audience has a say in whether or not they can hear your message.
Thad David:What do you mean by speak to be heard?
Lisa Jaster:The stories I'm going to tell youth at are not the stories I'm going to tell my kids, which aren't the stories I'm going to tell my husband, because they're not going to have the same impact. And when I tell the same story, let's say I'm talking about the guy accepting me for the first time and realizing that in his mind I was just one of the guys right, the version that my husband needs to hear. If I start talking about a naked dude, my husband's going to hear naked dude and he's going to focus on naked dude. So I'm going to talk about the scenario around the situation. I'm going to tell the story differently so that my husband won't get stuck on the naked dude and he won't, because he's an amazing man. But when I'm telling the story to you, I want the impact and I want the impact in a short amount of time. And I don't know who your listeners are Like. I can't see their faces. So I have to tell a story that's going to hit and they can hear it with their ears. So if you're not military, I'm going to tell you the same story a little differently. If I'm talking about a 240, I'm going to talk about a 27 pound weapon. If I'm talking to you who's former military, about a 240, I'm going to say a 240 and keep talking. And so I change my stories, I change my vernacular based on the audience.
Lisa Jaster:In Ranger school specifically, if I'm leading a group of engineer soldiers, I know exactly how to communicate with them. But when you're at Ranger school, your squad, let's say, it's 14 Bubba's. You got 14 Bubba's that have all different backgrounds, all different ages, all different experiences. The number one thing you have to do if you want to pass as a leader is figure out how to communicate with all of them as succinctly and quickly as possible so you can execute the mission and move on. And that's different for the E4 mechanic that came from Hawaii versus the E3 Ranger bat versus the E6 that was a black hat at Airborne school. Black hat means he was an instructor at the Airborne school, so he's really, really good in the school environment. He's maybe not been in the field for a while. The E3 that's in Ranger bat in the field a ton. He knows field stuff. So I can blur it out, everything I need him to do. But when I start talking to him about leadership I've got to expand more. That's changed the story, so the audience can hear you.
Thad David:We had touched on it earlier and I'm happy now that we followed that thread to start out with and I was unexpected because that to me ties right back into any veterans getting out that might feel like they're struggling Are you speaking to be heard? Because we say that it's different when you get out, but to your story, right there, it is exactly the same. You still have to change your language to speak to be heard in the civilian world when you get out. So it's a great takeaway and it's high end that I appreciate you sharing.
Lisa Jaster:I think a great example of that, going back to your transitioning military, is looking at resumes. So I look at a lot of resumes and one of the things I see a lot is people who have military leadership roles, especially our squad leaders, and above talk about managing the health, morale and welfare those terms health, morale and welfare of 12 Marines. That means absolutely nothing in corporate world. In the military it's like wow, you know, you checked on their family. You made sure that they were getting paid. You made sure that their truck wasn't getting repowed. When you deployed, you made sure their stuff was packed up. When they PCS, you made sure that they had a church to go to if they wanted to.
Lisa Jaster:If they came in and they were depressed, you put somebody on suicide watch, like you were in charge of the health, morale and welfare of 12 Bubba's that you didn't know the day before you got that job. How do we communicate that to our corporate bosses? Because saying hey, I'm a squad leader of 12 people means absolutely nothing. But when you say I was intergr Integrally, say that word integrally. I was really involved, Dang it. I thought I was doing well. I was really involved in the personal and professional life of 12 individuals, from waking up to making you know, from teaching them their combat skillset to ensuring they had a good place to sleep at night. Like that means something to your corporate peers. Health, morale and welfare means nothing. So speak to be heard.
Thad David:Well, it's a great. It's a great example, because I struggled for a long time, even putting anything military down on a resume. It's like why would this matter? How would this apply to anything? And being able to switch the language is a powerful thing.
Lisa Jaster:I think now that I'm a reservist I didn't. When I was active duty I looked down on reservists. You know they were part-timers, they weren't committed, right. But as a reservist now I realize, god, being a reservist is so hard because I've got to balance my day life, my day job, my work when I'm at drill and my military. And I still have to. Yesterday I had my military dental appointment and it was at, you know, 8.30 in the morning, in the middle of a business meeting. So I had to rearrange my schedule.
Lisa Jaster:But one of the things I've noticed with my reserve soldiers is they don't know how to cross those two bridges. How do you put your reservists into your resume and how do you put your civilian job into your reserve resume? And so I had a reserve engineer and he was a team leader, he was a corporal and he's like yeah, I'm a deliveryman for Amazon. My civilian career doesn't have any positive impact on my military career. And I'm like, really, you understand weather patterns, logistics, effective travel times, you understand ways to approach houses, because God knows who's got the big dog. I live in the country, in Texas, right, like you are not just walking up to my front door, I promise you and all these things I was talking about, and he's like, oh yeah, well, I just do that automatically Like, yes, bring that to your military world. And so the truth, or the same, is true in both directions. Sometimes military doesn't know how to speak to civilian, and a lot of times the civilian don't know how to communicate the value that their civilian experience also brings to the table.
Thad David:I think and a lot of stuff that I talk about in my day-to-day job is kind of whatever we focus on, kind of the story we tell ourselves, we live into it, and the moment we say, well, this doesn't apply, then our minds shut down, they don't see anything that's possible. And I love how you help people kind of get over that or you helped in that example kind of see the other side of it.
Lisa Jaster:What do you do in your day job?
Thad David:Well, I'm a it's a public speaker. Professional development I do a bunch of three-day training so I jump up in front of large groups and I facilitate personal professional development.
Lisa Jaster:Oh OK.
Thad David:Yeah, so a large group facilitator would be the best way to put it.
Lisa Jaster:Yeah, there's no easy way to say that, right.
Thad David:There's not A lot of people. I think assume that it's probably the biggest surprise when I open up a room. So I just got back, you know this week's training. I got back and probably the biggest surprise is people think it's a PowerPoint kind of thing and I don't have one slide deck. It's a very interactive, very engaging, lots of questions, which I think kind of that was one thing that sparked the podcast was doing interviews because, well, I ask questions all day Anyway.
Lisa Jaster:So when I'd ask more questions here, so I could bring all those qualities into a military resume and a heartbeat.
Thad David:But in that's it's amazing that you can and I think tying it in that, like how does somebody that's a veteran find a I don't want to say you, because obviously you're not going to help everybody listening, I wouldn't imagine but where would they find you or someone like you as a resource to help with that?
Lisa Jaster:Yeah. So talent war group is actually one of the companies I work with and they do. Now. We work with executive levels, with placement. But if you're not at the executive level, if you're a veteran, there are quite a few organizations in Ryan Norton he's out of Florida, he's one of our lead recruiters. He's definitely one of those people that reviews resumes people like me do.
Lisa Jaster:But reaching out and LinkedIn, there's quite a few people who are trying to help the veteran community become more active in the rest of our community, because what called us to serve in the military doesn't that that call, that nagging in the back of our head doesn't stop just because we get out of uniform. We're still called to serve. So a lot of the military veterans become unhappy in their career because they feel like they're not serving. They feel like they're not bringing a higher level of purpose into their corporate jobs and a lot of them aren't doing that because they don't know how to advertise that they have that ability or that desire and so you know, maybe it's reach out to me via LinkedIn and if I can't help there's somebody else who can.
Lisa Jaster:Maybe that that's something you can do and you have lots. We all have lots of connections I can throw names out or coordinate, or even if somebody I've had people on my posts comment and say, yeah, well, I was just a wife, woman, how does that add value to the community? Oh my God, let's talk about your observation skills, let's talk about your ability to read a room, let's talk about everything that an infantryman learns to do and just remove the weapon from the conversation and we can write your resume in 10 minutes. So you know, reach out. Linkedin is a great resource for finding those types of people.
Thad David:Hmm, I appreciate you sharing that and I wanted to ask you also you had mentioned your book, or you mentioned the book. For anybody that might not be aware, tell us about the book.
Lisa Jaster:Yes. So I wrote a book. It's called Delete the Adjective a Soldiers Adventures in Ranger School, and delete the adjective. The concept is yes, I'm middle age, yes, I'm a mom I mean I think at 46, I'm more than middle age now, but I'm not sure. Yes, I'm a woman. But all of those adjectives shouldn't matter when you're deciding whether or not you're willing to share a foxhole with me. And some of those adjectives do matter at different times, but too often we let our adjectives define us and we don't allow them to describe us. So I say all that because that sounds really, really snooty and intellectual. That's the purpose behind the book, but really it's 240 pages of Lisa's stories from Ranger School, and so the underlying message is you won't read the book and be like, oh wow, this chick, this. Like. You'll read the story and go oh, this resilient person pushed through, wait a second.
Lisa Jaster:I went to Ranger School. I had one dad he's a Vietnam vet and his son came back from Iraq and had PTSD Won't mention any names or any other details. This guy read my book, hadn't spoken to his son in like five years because he was like, as a Vietnam vet, I know what you guys did in Iraq. Like how the hell do you have PTSD? You're just trying to, you know, scrape money off the government and you were just a mechanic. What he didn't realize is he read the book and was like you know. I bet there's something more to my son's story than I realize. Maybe I should ask the questions because again, he looked at my book when he had it in his hand he was like no chick could do what I did. That was the first thing that went through his head. He was automatically living only in his own world. He read my book and suddenly he lived in my world and he's like Lisa's stories are the exact same stories as mine were when I went through Ranger school in the late 60s Same swamps, same mountains, same obstacle courses.
Lisa Jaster:So he calls his son. They start talking. He sends me a note. I bawled like a baby, I won't lie. He sends me a note.
Lisa Jaster:He's like my son was a mechanic in Afghanistan and part of his job was trying to piece vehicles together to make operating vehicles, because so many were were getting hit by IEDs. Well, when he was working on those vehicles, it wasn't just broken parts, it was also broken body parts that were stuck in engines. So he had PTSD from pulling feet and you know like gruesome things and I don't want to trigger anyone who might be listening. But this dad and the son reconnected because they saw, because he saw this story wasn't a middle age woman mother story, it was a soldier's story and he realized he hadn't figured out his son's story.
Lisa Jaster:So I say all that and none of that is telling you anything about the book. But the idea behind the book is to that you might have a really strong wife who's already out there and you know every day you're like damn, she's tough as woodpecker lips. Or you might have this amazing, great, spirited wife who never shows you when she's crippled by anxiety and you never see what she's overcoming and you just assume life is easier for her and you as the man are taking on. All this is a way to show people who haven't met that strong woman that there's women out there that like doing things that men do or that like to overcome adversity or just like walking around in the woods and can smile at a beautiful 5 am sunrise.
Thad David:I love it. And when you definitely described my wife there, just because you brought her up, she's a very, very strong, very strong woman she's. She's pretty incredible. I really appreciate how you were able to help him through that opening up to hear your story, which helped him to realize that he wasn't hearing the story of his son, which was a game changer. Yeah, I mean that right. There's just that one. I'm sure there's a thousand other examples of how it's impacted people's lives, but just that one has to make it worth having written the book right there.
Lisa Jaster:I mean, that's worth every minute, yeah that's amazing.
Thad David:And so delete the adjective, delete the adjective.
Lisa Jaster:It can be bought on Barnes and Noble, amazon. My websites delete the adjectivecom. Trying to keep it simple, I swear to God it's not an English book. There's no grammar checks at the end of each chapter. I have gotten a little pushback on that, but the concept really is like I've got a lot of friends. They're not gay friends, straight friends, white friends, black friends, military friends, they're just friends. So that's really where delete the adjective came from.
Thad David:So what you said? There's no grammar checks at the end of it. Yeah, what do you mean by that?
Lisa Jaster:Oh, because I've been told more than a few times delete the adjective. Sounds like it's an English lit book Like it should be read for AP English or something.
Thad David:Yeah, it's an interesting name and it makes sense after you described it, because I was like I wonder what that name was, and it makes perfect sense and clearly that message is being received by the people that are reading it. So I'm excited to check it out and I will link it wherever you say to in the bio of this so that that anybody and anyone listening can go check it out.
Lisa Jaster:I do read the audio, the audible, myself. So because I am military, I hate listening to military books not written by the authors because the mispronunciations of names, weapons systems, acronyms. If I hear DFAC one more time instead of DFAC, I'm probably going to like completely lose my cool. But yes, I do read the book myself. It's only like a four and a half hour listen for those of us who travel a lot and don't have time for paperbacks.
Thad David:Well, I'm going to. Definitely that's where I usually grab books on audible, so I'm going to make that happen.
Lisa Jaster:Awesome.
Thad David:So you are doing a ton of things? Yes, you're doing. I mean, it's unreal, it's unbelievable, all the things that you're juggling in your life and just big picture, high level. How do you manage to keep it all together? Because I think a lot of people struggle to juggle one or two things and you have a wide range of things going on. How do you, how do you do it?
Lisa Jaster:I'm going to answer your question with a question. What do you think when I say work life balance?
Thad David:What do I think of? Uh-huh? What do you mean just in particular? Like, what is that?
Lisa Jaster:Just general.
Thad David:I think for me. I think people mean it's like a there's a dividing line of like workstops, home life balance or home hits there and having about like juggling be able to jump that line. That's what it makes me think of.
Lisa Jaster:Yeah, and I say there's no such thing. Okay, so there's no such thing as work and life Like there used to be right. And I, when I joined the adult world in 2000, when I was commissioned in 2000, I left work and cell phones were just becoming a thing and it took 15 minutes to write a text because you had to press two, three times to get C Like or maybe it was one you press three times to get the letter C oh T, nine texting I remember.
Lisa Jaster:Yes. So you left work and, unless it was an emergency, nobody called you. When you wrote up an award, you started with a piece of paper and a pen and you wrote it up, and then you had the admin type it up and you prayed that when it printed, the words fit in the right boxes. And so back then you left work and you went to life. But now I've got a handheld computer. I've got I personally have five emails from the businesses that I'm associated with, plus my military, and so five emails are on this. And then I need a cat card to log in. I'm never away from work. So what I've chosen to do is to say, if I'm never away from work, I'm never away from life. So what that means is today my son has has to volunteer for a wrestling meet. I'm going to go volunteer during work hours and be at the same wrestling meet that he's at, so I could be there with him. But that means when I come home at night, I've got stuff to do. So how do I balance things? I look at what's really most important to me and I keep a list. My bathroom mirror has marker on it that says so.
Lisa Jaster:Brazilian jiu-jitsu I've been training off and on for 10 years. I I get worse every day. I think I'm just terrible. I really am. I'm terrible at it, but I absolutely love the challenge. So on my mirror it says earn my black belt. Now it might be five years, it might be 10 years, but someday I'm going to get my black belt. That's written on my mirror because it's important to me. But before black belt is be present. So if I'm going to be home and I'm going to be with my family, I'm going to put this down. If I'm going to go for a bike ride or a run, I'm going to see if I can bring my kids in on it. If my husband's going to go work out at two o'clock in the afternoon because he owns his own business and when his clients he needs to be available when his clients need him. At two o'clock in the afternoon his clients never seem to need him, so he goes into the gym, all right? Well, I'm going to go work out at the same time as my husband does and that's how I get my work life balance, so that he and I get some time together.
Lisa Jaster:So to answer the question of how do you juggle so many things? You figure out what makes you happy and you prioritize and get rid of the stupid stuff. Like there's a lot of stupid stuff that we all do because we think that that other mom and I'll use mom's as an example on Pinterest is better than us. Guess what I hate cooking. My kids can either make their own darn lunches or they can purchase them at school. That is 30 minutes of my morning. That is not worth my time. The extra groceries I order my groceries it is not worth my time. Now I'm going to buy the same amount of groceries and I think it's a $4 fee to go pick them up. Back up to the grocery store, pop my trunk and some 16-year-old kid puts them in my trunk For $4, I can make that happen.
Lisa Jaster:And so get rid of the stupid stuff. I actually just wrote an article about it this week. I do sub-stack articles and I said live your life like an editor and that's really how you get around that work life balance. Get rid of the stupid stuff. Make the stuff you're keeping the highest quality possible and if something is really, really good, don't mess with it. Don't mess with it. Friday night's pizza night don't try to make spaghetti, just make Friday night, pizza night and be happy because it's perfect. Everybody's happy, so that's. I don't know if that answers your question directly or indirectly, or even gets close to it.
Thad David:I think it's a great just to the inside. I love talking to high performers and people that are doing just about a ton of things and I think that that prioritization of time, what you're letting into your time, what you're not letting into your time and just how you juggle it is just something I'm fascinated with with this podcast. But just in general, just watching people like where they spend their time, what they do with their time, and it's because that's the one equalizer. We all have the same amount of time and yet some people tend to do a ton of stuff and other people feel like they have no time, but the reality is we all have the same quote unquote we have the same time. I mean, that's the equalizer.
Lisa Jaster:Yeah, yeah, I think about it as like when I start a new goal, and so I'm. This is a shameless plug. In September, I'm doing a 700 mile bike ride. That I got suckered into once again. We're doing it over six days in Wisconsin. It's to raise money for camp hometown heroes. It's a camp for fallen, the children of fallen soldiers and first responders, law enforcement, et cetera, and it's a camp to teach them life skills. It's in Wisconsin. Like I said, it's a six day bike ride. We're traveling 700 miles. We're raising funds for that.
Lisa Jaster:How I got this added onto my plate, I have no idea, once again, not to say anything about my husband, but he's like what the hell is wrong with you woman? So how do I, how do I, you know, add that into my life? And I think the easiest example of how you add these things that are important to you into your life is we've all gone on a diet at some point in time, like you could be the most fit man in the world or you could be really slender, and you're like hey, I'm going to put on 20 pounds of muscle this year or I'm going to lose 10 pounds of fat. Everybody has that goal at some point in their life. Well, your very first step is you walk in the pantry and you throw away everything that doesn't fit with your goals and you go to the grocery store and get everything you think you're going to eat, which of course, you never. Are right, you're never going to cook that squash Like it's just going to live there until it dies, but you know you think you do. That's your first step.
Lisa Jaster:So when you set a new goal, like adding training for a 700 mile bike ride, what did I empty out of my pantry to make room for the hours of training? And what I added to my pantry is I got something that I could put in front of my bike trainer so I can check emails while sitting on my bike, so I can make that productive. So how do you do that? Again, think about it like when you go on a diet how are you changing your life so that you can meet your dietary goals? The same is true with all of your well, with all of your other adventures and specifically staying away from my business goals, just because, like, I don't want to plug my business too much, but you know, make X number of dollars a year, publish this many articles do this. Many book signings, like all of those things, are written on my mirror and I check them off. My daughter was sweet enough to try to clean my mirror the other day and she wiped them off and we almost had a little argument about it.
Thad David:Well, and feel free to plug your business at any time, because I mean anything you want to. I mean because, like I told you earlier, this is really about you and I think your story has. I've gotten a ton of value from it. So I know anybody listening is going to have received a just a lot of value as well. But anything you plug is as by all means.
Thad David:I love your analogy of the pantry, though I've never considered that or heard it described in that way. Because in our life, like what is the goal? And I would say maybe we haven't identified the goal like what is your goal, what is the thing you want in your life? Because before you start emptying the pantry, like actually set out a clear goal, put a goal in front of yourself. Then we can empty the pantry and say, well, what's the thing in my life that's eating up a lot of time? I always tell people that they tell me that they don't have enough time, like, all right, well, if you're open, let's go look at your screen time on your phone right now and see where you're spending that, because to me that's the junk food in the pantry.
Thad David:Like if you don't have time, what you know 10 hours on social media a day is you got some time. You got some time, you're just using it elsewhere.
Lisa Jaster:Yeah Well, a great example is my kids. We listen to audiobooks now, so we had listened to the same songs on the playlist for so long and I know your kids are young but we started it with, like, the Harry Potter series and we listened to a book. And then we'll watch it on TV and we'll have this analysis of the Hollywood versus the JK Rollins version, and what's the difference is what was won and what was lost by the screen adaptation. And suddenly my kids were like oh, mom, you made us do a lesson in academics, didn't you? Like I did and you liked it.
Thad David:You enjoyed it.
Lisa Jaster:Yes. We just listened to the animal farm and the same thing you know. Hey, do you guys know what was going on, like you know, war two, what was going on with Germany and what was going on with Churchill at this time? And they're like we just thought it was a cool book.
Thad David:Wow, and that's great that you do that. And with three and five, have you seen those Tony boxes that are out?
Lisa Jaster:No.
Thad David:So it's a I don't have. I just got them a new station for, but it's a cube.
Thad David:It's a cushiony cube and it's got these little figurines. I'm looking around because I'm sure there's one somewhere, but there's these little figurines that you can buy for music, books, short stories. There's a my son has a bunch of with sharks, dinosaurs, national geographic stuff, but it's a magnetic. It almost works just like an old school CD player that when you put this you can pick a track from it. But it's a magnetic thing and you put it on top of this box and it's a, it's a cushiony speaker and you put it on there and it's got these two little ears and it'll play.
Thad David:So the kids have some autonomy and they can pick whatever they want to listen to. Yeah, but we just get them a bunch of educational stuff and that's their, their thing, that they get. And every now and again yeah I don't know all the times, but it a lot of times we'll see them like where, where are the kids? You know, it's one of those. It's riot, quiet to quiet to be something bad's happening right now and we'll look over and they'll have their little headphones and listen into their little Tony box, and so it's not quite at the audible of animal farm yet for the three and five year olds.
Lisa Jaster:Yeah, again, 11 to 15 is a little different.
Thad David:Yeah, no, no. But but I can appreciate where you're coming from with with diving into those lessons and really I'm sure that's going to pay pay some huge dividends later on.
Lisa Jaster:And that all goes back to how do you fit so much into a day? Is those car rides, or that time when, hey, daddy needs to or mommy needs to cook dinner, and I want the child, the children, to do something more than watch cartoons, you know? And how can you add value to each of those smaller minutes of your day?
Thad David:Yeah Well, thank you so much for for jumping on. I do have I have one more question that I want to ask you, but first I want what's the best way for people to get in touch with you If they want to just obviously get in your book? I'm going to link that below. Okay, where, where can people find you? How can they reach out? How can they follow you?
Lisa Jaster:Yeah, so I am. I love social media. I think it's great. I get in debates and arguments all the time. Absolutely enjoy it.
Lisa Jaster:So I'm on Instagram, as Lisa age asked her all one word, If you want to talk professional stuff. Linkedin again, it's just Lisa Jaster. My main name is in parentheses for the people who knew me professionally beforehand, and that's Pepelinsky. Don't expect anyone to remember that. And then, both on Twitter and on Facebook, I have delete the adjectives pages. So if you look up delete the adjective, they come up there. Of course, my website is delete the adjectivecom and you can sign up for a newsletter where I will send out like the new sub stack articles I write. They're mostly leadership based, but a lot of them are like next in a couple weeks. I've got one coming out where I'm. I'm doing an analysis of a quote from the mockingjay. Just, people don't show up the way you want them to. Is is a quote that hit me when I was rewatching the movie with my kids, so I'm going to do a big analysis of that. I'm I'm in final edits and so every week I'm trying to post stuff on sub stack that make people think, to include myself.
Lisa Jaster:And I say, if you have people that want to reach out via social media, I love controversial opinions because who I was 10 years ago it is not the same as who I was 20 years ago. I am a different woman now. I have changed my beliefs, I have been persuaded through academic arguments and I want to continue to grow because, you know, I'm no longer going to be the best version of myself physically, but I definitely want to be the best version of myself academically and spiritually. And I still want, I still think I'm going to PR my deadlift one of these days.
Thad David:I'm working on it.
Lisa Jaster:So I'm not, I'm not done physically.
Thad David:I, I don't think anybody could say that you're done. I mean, you're you just committed to a 700 mile bike ride? So you're, yeah, you're getting after it. So, and I'll be sure to grab some of those links as well and include them in the bio to hopefully give somebody a quick, a quick reference to it.
Thad David:You know you talked about earlier and just one final piece and I don't know if you've pieced it together, but just as you shared your story of everything that you've done, of how you got in the military, we talked about just the diversity in the military and you mentioned the, just the seven different shades of skin color, and you know it didn't matter what you were and that you're a great advocate for it in the civilian world. And then you started sharing your story about you and Ranger school and how everybody kind of you, I don't want to say won everybody over, but you showed them like you wore that piece. I mean it was. It was cool to see that you had brought up how the military is, this diverse group and once they do it. But have you, have you thought about how that was you Like? You were the start, you were the initial point of women being accepted in Ranger school. And just the same way that we all get thrown into a unit and we become accepting of each other, have you? Have you considered?
Lisa Jaster:that at all. I think I think of it as I'm really. I'm going to steal this quote from one of the the first females in an armor unit and she said we were on a, on a panel together, and she goes I'm just a dude that smells better with longer hair and so I've always kind of looked at myself like that. So I don't only think of myself unless, unless I have to look at myself through somebody else's eyes as breaking barriers, because I've always lived in that world. West point was almost 90% male when I went I worked construction and oil and gas as a project manager. I I worked as a combat engineer in the army where we had a handful of women. Like I've just lived in this predominantly male world that I never really thought of myself as anything other than just one of the guys which is why I love the term guys, because I think of it as gender neutral Um, so no, no, I haven't thought of it that way.
Lisa Jaster:And I'm going to try not to, because part of it too, is I I'm not done. There's so much more work I have to do, and and I would hate to sit back on my laurels and feel like I've succeeded.
Thad David:Yeah, well, and I and I don't think of it as a success thing and what you're saying makes sense, I love the humility in it and I love the attitude of there's work to be done still, and it was an interesting thing to to think about because I I know for me just having I share an example of, like my, my first team, you know, we had, I do from not a great spaces in LA we had a guy from Texas who one of my best friends to this day, but we wanted to just, yeah, we were just bashing heads and just people from all over every different background you could imagine, and we all, we all loved how we gel together. Yeah, and then I love how you know this one controversial political topic of bringing a inserting a woman into the, this traditionally men's environment, and it's cool to see how that does the same thing it gels together.
Lisa Jaster:Yeah.
Thad David:And and we're all, we're all one and it's, it's pretty cool.
Lisa Jaster:Military is great for that.
Thad David:It really is Well. Lisa, thank you so much for for joining, for jumping in. I know you, you prioritize your time and I'm grateful that you you chose to give some up in here.
Lisa Jaster:Thanks, Thad. This was a really fun conversation. I appreciate it.
Thad David:I really appreciate it, thank you.